When zero tolerance equals zero sense: A first grader in Delaware avoids reform school
I am not sure why common sense doesn’t under gird all the zero tolerance policies in school systems.
If common sense were a bit more common, we’d never read another story like this one from the Associated Press.
Can someone explain to me why schools get into these messes? They end badly for everyone, but most of all for the reputations of the systems.
Please see update on this story: The child who was facing 45 days in an alternative school as punishment for taking his favorite camping utensil to school can return to class after the school board made a hasty change granting him a reprieve.
Del. 1st grader faces reform school for camp tool
NEWARK, Del. — A Delaware first-grader who wanted to eat lunch at school with his favorite camping utensil, a combination of folding fork, knife and spoon, now faces 45 days in reform school.
Hundreds of people were expected to attend a school board meeting Tuesday evening to object to the suspension of 6-year-old Zachary Christie from Downes Elementary School for bringing the camping utensil from home.
The folding knife is banned as a dangerous instrument under the Christina School District’s zero-tolerance policy in the student code of conduct and officials said they have to act regardless of his age or what he planned to do with the instrument.
Zachary’s mother, Debbie Christie, is appealing her son’s suspension and said she’d prefer that the district’s policy take into consideration a child’s age and intent.
“I understand why they have it, but I don’t agree with the implementation of it,” she told NBC’s “Today.”
In an interview on CBS’ “Early Show” on Tuesday, Zachary said weapons don’t belong in school.
“I agree that they shouldn’t bring dangerous weapons to school but I don’t think the punishment should be this bad,” Zachary said. “It’s not fair.”
Zachary is being homeschooled for now.
“I do sometimes miss my friends and want to go back,” Zachary said.
State Rep. Terry Schooley, who sponsored a bill to give districts more flexibility on punishments, expects a crowd at Tuesday’s school board meeting.
“This has gotten really crazy. It’s ridiculous,” Schooley said. “There are going to be hundreds of people at the school board meeting. It’s going to be a circus.”
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Guides
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2009 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
61 comments Add your comment
Sarah
October 13th, 2009
11:53 am
Everything is unfair until someone gets hurt.
Fulton Teacher
October 13th, 2009
12:00 pm
Does this incident make any sense? No. Unfortunately, teachers, administrators and school systems have to have blanket policies that they enforce with no exceptions. If not, they will be accused of being unfair and playing favorites when some students are punished under a policy and some are not. As ridiculous as this particular situation is, it is also one that was easily avoidable. How hard is it just to follow the rules, even the ones that might seem silly to you?
HB
October 13th, 2009
12:12 pm
These sorts of policies are ridiculous. The child clearly meant no harm and was no threat, so at most, take the utensil away and tell the child and parents such utensils can’t be brought back to school.
We had a situation like this in the mid-90s in my south GA high school. Down there, it was very common for students to carry small pocket knives (I regularly used the nail file on mine and the little scissors if I had a loose thread). As part of a new initiative to be more aggressive on weapons, signs went up everywhere with the list of illegal weapons, including knives with blades over 3 inches. Silly us, we thought that meant knives under 3 inches were ok. So one day the admin searched every classroom in one building, confiscated 1″ and 2″ Swiss Army knives from several excellent students who had NEVER been in trouble before, and suspended them all for two weeks. When students argued the signs said only large knives were bannned, the admin said that just referred to legality in general, while deep in our student handbook one sentence only said “knives”, meaning ALL knives (by that standard, the ones provided in the lunch line should have been banned!).
The fallout: Teachers, who were as furious about the action as students, were told in no uncertain terms that suspended students could not make up graded work, so we had no grades for two weeks. During that same two-week period, one student stabbed another, critically injuring him, in the school cafeteria during a lunch period. His weapon — a perfectly legal screwdriver.
HS Teacher, Too
October 13th, 2009
12:14 pm
You know, the argument for these “no exceptions” policies is that we can’t make exceptions for one student without opening Pandora’s box. The problem is that we have removed any deference to discretion. The administrators and policy makers say that discretion leads to unfair application of the rules. That’s not true. It would be entirely FAIR to say that some things are serious and others, not so. Moreover, police officers, doctors, nurses, ALL SORTS of people use discretion constantly. So, for that matter, do teachers: is this mistake worth losing full credit? Should I repeat this example to be sure the class understands? (etc.)
There is a difference between ignoring a rule because you think it is unfair, and genuinely not knowing you were breaking a rule. The article doesn’t make it clear whether the family knew the utensil would be considered a weapon. But *anything* can be a weapon when used as such. For goodness’ sake, my students use pencils in class and everyone knows THEY could poke an eye out … it’s not the item (generally speaking), but the intent behind its use.
Discretion is a necessary part of making the world go round. What is happening to this little boy is a travesty. It is, perhaps, a fair rule, but it is being applied unfairly.
What we need in this country is a return to common sense!!!
Maureen's accountability metric
October 13th, 2009
12:18 pm
Maureen asks, “Can someone explain to me why schools get into these messes?”
It’s simple Maureen. Zero tolerance is a smokescreen; a smokescreen designed to make people think the schools have “addressed” discipline problems. Even as monumentally stupid as these school systems inevitably look, they are willing to take that hit. Why would anyone be willing to look that stupid you ask? Because it deflects attention from the real discipline problems that they don’t address. If the public ever got this upset about the real day-to-day discipline problems in the schools, that would be a monster the schools simply couldn’t “spin” their way out of.
So for the schools, far better to create a monster it can control. Here’s how it will play out Maureen. There will be a big show at the board meeting, the system will alter the punishment, and the masses will feel “empowered” that the school system was “responsive to their concerns.” It’s all part of the dance, Maureen.
If you don’t believe me, look at all the attention this case is getting versus the relative lack of attention we give real discipline problems. If and you’ll readily see, for as much heat as the officials will get in this case, why the trade off is worth it.
Glad I could clear this up.
Jennifer
October 13th, 2009
12:34 pm
This is what you get when you have educators implementing policies. Professionals are trained to use common sense and back it up with documentation for their reasoning. No true professional who understands how to adminster policy ever implements any policy in a zero tolerance manner.
Sarah
October 13th, 2009
12:49 pm
Teachers have little or nothing to do with making the rules. Put the blame where it belongs: administrators, superintendent, school board, legislature, governor. Pick one or more.
Danteach
October 13th, 2009
12:50 pm
Once again, why would his mother let him take it to school? When will parents learn the power of the word, “no”.
Ernest
October 13th, 2009
1:05 pm
Sarah left out the main constituency in her list. It comes back to the citizens. In order to appeal to citizens, candidates propose draconian policies designed to appeal to the masses. What ends up happening is we take ‘discretion and common sense’ away from school administrators. Citizens allow these rules to be passed then we complain when they are obviously misapplied. Where were the citizens when the policies were being passed?
MAM is on track with their comment. We will see a lot of ‘pomp and circumstance’ with this particular issue and it will be resolved as it should have been. Will they modify the policy to allow discretion to be used? Will they examine similar policies and make changes? I sincerely doubt it.
HB
October 13th, 2009
1:21 pm
Danteach, why should a parent say no to letting a child take an all-in-one eating utensil to school? It honestly would not occur to many people that a lunch knife would be considered the same thing as a weapon knife. When the incident I described above occurred at my school, some supporters of the admin (few that there were) actually said, “Why would any student need a knife at school?” as if the fact that it isn’t a dire necessity is justification for punishing students who had them regardless of whether or not the rules were clear. That’s idiotic! We should not be teaching children that blind adherance to rules is more important than common sense!
Sarah
October 13th, 2009
1:37 pm
Thanks, Ernest. You are so right.
Reality 2
October 13th, 2009
1:57 pm
In general, bureaucrats do not want to have any responsiblity. When you use common sense and make decisions, then they are held accountable. Therefore, school board members, building administrators, and teachers would rather have the zero tolerance policies because they don’t have to make decisions. Even in a case like that, they can always hide behind the zero tolerance policy.
Old School
October 13th, 2009
1:57 pm
We had an aluminum bat incident at school one morning back in the late 90s that lead to a lockdown the next day while lockers and public areas of the school were searched. Then came the announcement that officers would be coming around with hand-held metal detectors. I found out later that, like me, many of my colleagues opened file cabinet drawers and told the students to either put their pocket knives in storage or face the detectors. Call me wrong but down in the Deeeeeep South, everyone (including me) has a pocket knife. And not one single time in all my years has one EVER been used inappropriately or hurt someone. Girls will cut you with box cutters and guys still use their fists (although one kid grabbed a shovel out of his pickup and there have been 2 known handgun incidents.)
Even the judicial system recognizes prior good behavior and cuts first time offenders (no pun intended) some slack. Why not schools?
Terry
October 13th, 2009
3:10 pm
This is just plain stupid. A first grader?
HB
October 13th, 2009
3:16 pm
That’s funny about hiding the knives, Old School. We didn’t know the admin was looking for weapons. A kid who had gone to the restroom saw what was going on down the hall and came back to warn everyone they were coming. The admin called the teacher outside briefly before coming in, and packs of cigarettes started flying across the room to a waste basket in the back corner. When the search started and we were asked to empty our bags, putting books on the floor and everything else on our desks, everyone put the pocket knives right up on the desk next to our keys and pens. If we had any idea that they weren’t allowed, we’d have hidden them with the cigarettes!
jim d
October 13th, 2009
3:55 pm
I agaree dan teach –we as parents should be frissking these 6 year olds on their way out the door.
high school teacher
October 13th, 2009
4:06 pm
I’m interested to hear about the alternative school that the 6-year old will be releagted to. How many kids are there under the age of 10? Are they mixed in with the older population? Are we really concerned with child safety when we send a 6-year old to alternative school?
jim d
October 13th, 2009
4:07 pm
HST,
Not alternatve school——REFORM SCHOOL
DeKalb Conservative
October 13th, 2009
4:30 pm
Are there plastic knifes in the cafeteria? I heard about this story this morning and that was one of the first things I thought, are students allowed access to plastic knifes in the cafeteria and if so do they need to sign them out, or have authorized supervision while using them?
Another great example I heard today was that baseball and softball teams would have to be banned because students would be in possession of baseball bats (a weapon that could be used for blunt trauma).
Old School
October 13th, 2009
4:32 pm
It’s the South. Everyone has a pocket knife. You never know when you’ll need to cut up an apple, peel an orange, clean your fingernails, trim off a loose thread, tighten a screw in your eyeglasses, sharpen a pencil, scrape something, open a package, cut off a strip of duct tape, strip some insulation off a wire, join a game of mumblypeg, clean a fish, pry up a thumbtack, free a CD from its plastic nightmare packaging. . . .
Every Boy Scout knows to “Be Prepared.” That youngster had eating utensils from a messkit for heaven’s sake! Next thing you know we’ll lose those reams of copy paper because someone might suffer an unfortunate paper cut!
jim d
October 13th, 2009
4:33 pm
Mo,
you are absolutely twisted today.
on one blog youd strip all of america of a constitutional right to own guns but on another blog you think 6 year olds carrying knives to school is kinda sorta ok.
take your meds dear.
mama-mia
October 13th, 2009
4:59 pm
Those who cant…… teach. Those who can’t teach, coach. Those who can’t coach work as administrators.
Ernest
October 13th, 2009
6:16 pm
JimD, now THAT was funny……
catlady
October 13th, 2009
6:47 pm
HB, obviously you haven’t been in a K-5 classroom lately, during a reading lesson featuring the highly recommended (FOB) direct instruction reading lesson. You know, when the teacher asks a (very simple) question, CLICKS HER FINGERS OR A DOG CLICKER, and the students are required to answer IN UNISON OR THEY START ALL OVER. A heil hitler always comes to my mind. I simply won’t do it!
yall are crazy
October 13th, 2009
7:12 pm
The entire public school system in this country is an embarrassment.
Greg in Duluth
October 13th, 2009
7:18 pm
It would be great if our comments meant anything to those that could do something about it. That won’t happen. There is a lack of common sense from the top down in this country.
Shananeeeeee Fananeeeeeeee
October 13th, 2009
7:36 pm
The great man that was Martin Luther King is spinning in his grave looking at what his children have become. “I have a dream where all my kids care about is money and will fight with their siblings over money, I am so ashamed.”
HB
October 13th, 2009
7:40 pm
Catlady, that may be the saddest, creepiest thing I ever read. Thank you for refusing to take part.
The Nerd
October 13th, 2009
7:45 pm
Next thing they know, the school officials will punish students for a trivial offense, then, they permamently expell students in all grades for forgetting their homework, a total ban on eating utensils both metal and plastic, and ban students from going to any school fuctions, including graduation, proms and other dances! THE SCHOOLS ARE BECOMING A POLICE STATE! IT’S NO WONDER THAT STUDENTS’ AND CHILDREN’S RIGHTS ARE GOING DOWN THE DRAIN!
Macy
October 13th, 2009
7:52 pm
Did any of you people SEE the utensil??? If parents would be parents and check their little prince/princess before they leave the house, maybe, just maybe, it would not be left up to the teachers to discipline the kids. I am sick of the whining from people always blaming a teacher or authorities. BE PARENTS AND DISCIPLINE YOUR KIDS!
mystery poster
October 13th, 2009
8:06 pm
In the mid 90s, when my son was in first grade, I was talking to his friend’s mother. She was going through his backpack and found his toy saw. She asked him what the saw was doing in his backpack. He responded that they were doing some construction at school and thought they might need his help.
Good thing that didn’t happen today, the kid would probably be locked up
EEA
October 13th, 2009
8:20 pm
wow, and to think when I was in school, kids drove to school with hunting rifles in the rear windows of their trucks……………….and that was only the 80’s………..
Edge
October 13th, 2009
8:27 pm
mama mia wrote. “Those who cant…… teach. Those who can’t teach, coach. Those who can’t coach work as administrators.”
It is so nice that when people berate teachers they seem to always lack the basic knowledge of our language and its grammar. Thank you for proving your ignorance in your writing so we do not have to take a second and think about your statements.
Tony
October 13th, 2009
8:35 pm
Most zero tolerance policies in schools are the direct result of legislation put forth by state lawmakers. In Georgia, the weapons law and drugs law are the most notorious for producing zero tolerance offenses. After all, Tweety Bird chains and Tylenol are known killers.
School administrators should have discretion over offenses like these. In Georgia, had the blade on the knife been over three inches, we would have to notify the police. There are special forms to fill out and fax to the main office. Sometimes tribunals must be held. These policies waste time and resources especially when the offense is so insignificant as a pocket knife.
Voice of Reason
October 13th, 2009
9:41 pm
Two problems here: 1) politicians (school boards) set the rules, and 2) parents defend their children instead of disciplining them. Blame them both. But don’t blame the schools. They are caught in the middle.
start thinking
October 14th, 2009
6:03 am
The same people who claim to be teaching our children “critical thinking skills” can’t be trusted to actually apply any critical thinking and therefore we have zero tolerance policies. Doesn’t give you a whole lot of faith in the educational system.
Joy in Teaching
October 14th, 2009
8:17 am
The rules such as the zero tolerance polices that we are discussing right now were voted into place as a reaction to serious incidents that have happened.
Does anyone remember the Heritage High School shooting in 1999? Does anyone remember the Barrow county principal who was killed in 1986 because a student he was disciplining jabbed a pencil into his eye? What about that the numerous drug arrests that happen in each district each year that we don’t know the details of because they are underaged?
The thing is, the laws enacted by legislatures do not give school districts, administators, and lowly teachers the option to use common sense. We have plenty of it. But because they over react, then we HAVE to follow or become unemployed. And who does this reflect upon? Us. Not them.
Rod
October 14th, 2009
9:27 am
The kid is a cute little white boy. Surely he could do no harm.
I guarantee you if the kid was unattractive, black and from a bad part of town there would be no uproar. Folks would instantly agree with the decision to keep him out.
Zero tolerance levels these things out so it doesn’t get racial.
jim d
October 14th, 2009
9:57 am
Thought about this last night, and have some concerns about this young Scout
As a boy begins the Boy Scout Trail, he joins other boys his own age. He can start the scouting program from 6 (starting 1st grade) to 17 years old. The Cub Scout age program is for 1st graders through 3rd graders – Tiger cubs, Wolf scouts, and Bear scouts. After completing Bear scout requirements, scouts begin their Webelos program.
Unless I’m mistaken (and I assure you I’m not) Cub scouts earn their whitlin chip (right to carry their knives) as part of their advancement to the rank of Bear. Which is generally a third grader. And they are generally taught that knives do not go to school. (and thats a large period)
A first grader should by no means have earned that priviledge through Scouting. To the contrary he should have been quite aware that he had not yet earned it. Which means either the young man failed to adhere to Scouting principles or the Adult leadership within the pack failed this young man.
In either case, as a huge supporter of Boy Scouts I find this rather disturbing and this issue will be brought up locally to assure the integrity of the Scouting program.
Ernest
October 14th, 2009
10:04 am
Joy, another thing to consider with your comment are the ‘mandatory sentencing’ policies many state legislatures have enacted. Several judges I’ve spoken to are concerned about these as they take away ‘discretion’ in sentencing. We can all think of situations where we disagreed with a judges decision but at some point you have to put a stake in the ground.
Policies such as mandatory sentencing and zero tolerance will remain unless the citizens speak out against them. That means before incidents like this one occur.
Jennifer
October 14th, 2009
10:19 am
Tony,
You are not correct that most zero tolerance policies are a result of legislation, at least not here in Georgia. Most zero tolerance policies are the result of two things: (1) Local Boards of Education student code of conduct discipline codes (written by the district staff) or (2) non zero tolerance policies being practiced at the individual school as zero tolerance. I would humbly suggest that the latter of the two represents 90% of the offenses treated as “zero tolerance” offenses. I think I can think of about 1-3 offenses which REQUIRE placement at an alternative ed school in Georgia, while it is true more require notification to the police.
And regardless of the law, it is unlikely that any significant legislation is defined so narrowly that punishment “requires” a student to be sent to an alternative school for 45 days. Even if you are required to notify the police, that does NOT mean that you have to (a) separate the student from school for 45 days, or that you even have to suspend him/her. In the case where mandatory removal is stated there are even less instances when the legislation outlines the removal time frame by offense.
Go visit http://www.georgiaappleseed.org and look at the guide “My Child is Being Disciplined at School”. It is a quick read and you will then know right where to place blame – school boards, principals and administrators.
Actually what this story tells me is that this student might very well be a special education student, because there is a component of IDEA which sounds chillingly similar to the 45 day punishment which was handed out. I would predict that this will open up an additional can of worms for the school system if that is true.
www.gaappleseed.org (sorry :) )
October 14th, 2009
10:21 am
Enter your comments here
Tonya
October 14th, 2009
10:26 am
Jim D:
Relax. The utensil was given to the youngster by his parents as a part of his first camping trip. It was not ’scout-mandated’. It was simply a part of the mess kit. The parents WERE NOT against being punished, just not to the extent the school wanted to take it. And if you read the actual story, the boy presented the tool to a teacher as soon as he got off the bus, not hiding it nor getting it into the school itself.
Kids’ are far more likely to use a pencil, 0pen, or protractor to stab someone now than a pocketknife as they are far more easily available.
Sarah
October 14th, 2009
10:31 am
I don’t have time to teach critical thinking skills. I am too busy teaching kids how to bubble.
jim d
October 14th, 2009
11:08 am
No problem Tonya,
I just want to be certain that as adult leaders we are all doing the job. I think that this is an area we may be able to improve.
CHA
October 14th, 2009
11:40 am
Let’s look at the situation as it really is. Who benefits from these draconian measures? Try enforcement agencies… Courts, police, jails, probation and their administration gain financial perks by keeping the rest of us “safe” until we become one of the persons under their watch.
Why does the USA have the largets prison population in the world? Look closely at the 13th Amendment and what it means; not to end slavery but allow only the government the ability to impose that condition. Now prisons are on the stock exchange as a money making investment… Slavery has always and will always be about maximized profits. Where better to start than in the schools?
Dee
October 14th, 2009
12:13 pm
This actually happened to my 12 year old at Berkmar Middle School. He was awarded a pocket knife from the Boys Scott and wanted to share his prize with his classmates. Only after having to go before a Discipline Hearing and being charged with a felony, was he allowed to return back to school with the stipulation that he would be expelled if he sneezed the wrong way. The felony charge will not be totally expunged until he is 18 years old. Thank God, he is a good kid and only has 2 years parole left on this ridiculous & outrageous charge.
catlady
October 14th, 2009
12:18 pm
If it is your kid that gets caught, the rule is “unfair” and “lack of common sense.” If it is some other person’s kid it is “the little thug” and “same rules for all.” Funny about that.
Jake
October 14th, 2009
12:24 pm
Dee – he’s a member of the “Boys Scott?” Sounds like a radical group.
12 years old and carrying a knife to school? He deserved to be punished.
Sarah
October 14th, 2009
1:14 pm
Students are not given plastic knives here at school. Of course you could break off the fork or spoon part and use it as a weapon.
admin
October 14th, 2009
2:28 pm
Let me see y’all who are the critics try to administer a “common sense” and fair to all approach. Some policies have to be administered by the book…you should not wish to get caught guessing another person’s intent…regardless of how innocent they might seem.
jim d
October 14th, 2009
3:03 pm
yeah admin,
we really need to watch those 6 year old terroists
ugaaccountant
October 14th, 2009
3:05 pm
6 year olds don’t have intent. As little as 10 years ago, you weren’t held responsible for your actions until you were 18. You could get in a fist fight in the middle of your high school lunchroom and nobody would call a cop or send you to alternative school. Now a decade later you want 6 year olds to have adult levels of responsibility? Sounds like you are the one without critical thinking skills “admin”.
HRJ
October 14th, 2009
4:24 pm
Seems like the young lad’s mother is too busy tending to her new romance instead of properly parenting her child.
Hope this child learned his lesson and doesn’t grow up thinking that he can bend the rules again. The unfortunate part of the now defunct “zero tolerance” policy at this particular school / district is that others will push the limits.
If people would just follow common sense rules and instill that in their children, our society would be a much better place. Instead, we always look to the “government” for help.
ugaaccountant
October 14th, 2009
5:13 pm
HRJ – 6 year olds don’t understand abstract rules such as “no weapons”. If you sit a fork in front of a 6 year old and ask him what it is he’ll say a fork. If you ask him what you do with it, he’ll say you eat with it.
I’d also be willing to bet a 6 year old had no idea there was a “zero tolerance no weapons” policy. 6 year olds don’t read school handbooks. Do you honestly think a 6 year old is aware of such a rule?
catlady
October 14th, 2009
6:18 pm
Ugaaccountant–I am thinking, in this day and time, either he or his parents better be aware. catlady,UGA PhD
Also Ran
October 14th, 2009
8:00 pm
Years ago my daughter made a similar mistake in fourth grade. She took a multipurpose tool to school because it had a nail clipper. It also had a little pen knife. The principal was an intelligent man with common sense. He called me in and explained the policy. But he knew she did not mean any harm and it ended right there and then.
A camping tool, really. This issue should never have gotten this far. A little common sense please.
Walt
October 14th, 2009
8:57 pm
Thank god someone is teaching young people how to take care of them selves. And not the government like everyone else. Thank you Boy Scouts of America
Jessica
October 14th, 2009
9:39 pm
This is ridiculous. The little boy broke a rule and should have been disciplined, but sending him to reform school is extreme overkill. What happened to consequences like detention, writing sentences 100 times (”I will not bring camping gear to class. I will not bring camping gear to class…”) or staying in during recess to clean the blackboard?
Lee
October 14th, 2009
10:00 pm
The title says it all; “When zero tolerance equals zero sense.”
The evidence is almost legendary. Ten year old girls suspended for a toy Tweety Bird keychain. Eagle Scouts suspended for having a camp axe in his truck in a parking lot. Honor students suspended for Tylenol.
The ultimate insanity are the numerous students suspended for DRAWING A GUN. Not drawing a picture of shooting someone, mind you, but a simple sketch of a gun.
All in the name of some arbitrary zero tolerance rule.
Weak men like a lot of rules. They wield them as though they were a Roman Gladiator shield as they ruin the lives of those they preside over.
Sarge
October 18th, 2009
9:06 pm
Politicians and administrators of all ilk…in order to play it safe, always remain within the box of rules, regs and other senseless items which only serve to gum up the wheels of human endeavor. Never question the validity of that which you must mindlessly and blindly enforce, and above all, never, never, never think outside that tightly-defined comfort zone established by other fools who share your complete lack of backbone and guts. SLEEP WELL TONIGHT, BASKING IN THE KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE PROBABLY SCREWED UP ANOTHER KID WHOSE ONLY QUESTION IS “WHAT DID I DO TO DESERVE THIS”?