The governor’s office: Rising grad rate deserves celebration
In response to an entry I wrote Thursday about AYP and Georgia’s graduation rate, I received this e-mail from the governor’s office. I think Bert Brantley makes a valid point and I asked if I could run the comment here.
Also, Bert pointed out that Gov. Sonny Perdue is the co-chair of the National Governors Association common standards movement, which I should have noted last week when we discussed the draft standards.
Maureen,
I saw your blog post yesterday and wanted to give some rationale for the Governor’s reaction yesterday.
You are exactly right, there are several ways to determine the graduation rate and some of those would peg the rate at a lower number. However, we have used the same methodology every year the Governor has been in office for that very reason, so that we could fairly compare without any question of monkeying with the formula. The rate we use has been approved by the US DOE and is used by many other states.
Most every “study” that comes out bemoaning our grad rate uses years-old data before our graduation coaches started. We have clearly documented the lower number of dropouts since the grad coach program started, so there should be a corresponding increase in the completion rate. Of course, for these national studies, it will still be a few years before these numbers are reported, long after the Governor is out of office.
You will notice in the statement the Governor specifically noted the 15 percent increase in six years, but we also mention the 80 percent number because it was a goal that he set out. At the time, it seemed like a stretch goal, most thought it was impossible to move the numbers that much.
So, to summarize, we completely understand and agree with your analysis of the rate, but we do feel like progress should be celebrated. There is so much cynicism, particularly in education, shouldn’t we celebrate and recognize the positive progress when we do see it?
Bert Brantley
Director of Communications
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17 comments Add your comment
Ernest
October 2nd, 2009
4:58 pm
This was an interesting statement:
The rate we use is the same rate the US DOE and most states use.
If this is the case, we should be able to perform an ‘apples to apples’ comparison of graduation rates across the country, or at least for the states the use the same methodology. What also needs to be factored in is the size of the special needs population in each state, given the previous postings that indicated they can negatively impact the graduation rate.
V for Vendetta
October 2nd, 2009
9:07 pm
Dear Bert,
Wouldn’t even more kids graduate from high school if we had a viable technical track for them to pursue as an alternative to a college prep diploma?
Regards,
V
catlady
October 2nd, 2009
9:22 pm
We might also have more students graduate from high school if we enforced expectations on them in elementary school (such as memorizing the addition and subtraction facts to 20 in first grade) so that they don’t continue on year after year, falling farther and farther behind their classmates (but being promoted anyway) and hit a wall in high school where they have to show some degree of MASTERY of the objectives. Even better, if the CRCT is a valid test, we should hold back all students who do not pass it in the gateway grades!
Don’t you think having 9th graders ready to do 9th grade work would raise the graduation rate?
free market educator
October 3rd, 2009
1:18 am
The only statistics that matter are the employment rate, divorce rate, and personal debt rate. As we can clearly see, this country has gone BUST in all of these areas. Because the government schools have educated the majority of the population, I give them full credit for destroying this once great country!
Dr. Craig Spinks /Augusta
October 3rd, 2009
3:05 am
Mr. Brantley, what percentage(s) of our HS graduates function at a minimum of the 8th grade-level in Reading, Math and(or) Writing?
Jennifer
October 3rd, 2009
8:24 am
So if the graduation coaches are helping, and we are giving them significant credit – why are we giving tons of waivers to districts around the state to use them for purposes other than the Governor intended and why did the state agree to districts to essentially disband their role in IE2 contracts, if so desired ? Spin, spin, spin.
Public school mom
October 3rd, 2009
9:49 am
The Graduation Coach at my child’s high school is incompetent. He clearly was moved from school to school in his long public school career and instead of terminating him, he was kept on as a “graduation coach.” He is hardly literate and is most useful in directing school bus and car pool traffic and monitoring the dress code in the hallways. The wages paid to him would be much better used to hire a competent math or science teacher.
No data on graduation rates will be useful until school systems can follow each student from K through 12 no matter which school they are in. My neighbor is a statistician at the CDC and said this is not a difficult task to accomplish. I cannot fathom why the BOE has spent million and millions of tax dollars over many years and has been unable to do this.
Tony
October 3rd, 2009
10:04 am
free market educator – The three indicators you listed in your post are totally unrelated to education and completely related to social issues that are a direct result of poor values. These poor values can not be tied to school in the ludicrous manner in which you have indicated. The Wall Street and banking fiasco that has brought us as a nation to our knees is much more related to greed than it is to whether or not our schools have done their jobs. The divorce rate is much more related to horrible personal values and selfishness than it is related to learning to read or not. Personal debt is more related to the lack of self-control and instant gratification elements of personal decision making than it is related to the learning of science or mathematics in school.
In short, the assinine argument against the schools you laid out is totally bogus. However, those values that are reflected in the stats you list do speak loudly about the moral character of our country’s citizens. If our nation does not realize that it is vital for us to demonstrate more moral character, we will follow the path of other great civilizations and we will fall as Rome did.
TW
October 3rd, 2009
10:10 am
Republicans shouldn’t even pretend anymore to care about education any more. Sonny should take a page from Chip Rogers in Cherokee, who sends his brood to private school and kills all the funding for public he can.
Republican districts across Georgia have redefined ‘thank you sir, may I have another?’
There’s no need to pretend anymore. Stupid willingly manufactures more stupid.
plc
October 3rd, 2009
12:16 pm
Ernest, I believe any SPED student who has a five year IEP does not count against the grad rate. However, the students who do need that extra year don’t always have that listed in their IEP.
As far as grad coaches are concerned, it all depends on how the school uses the coach. Mine is absolutely amazing and is working wonders with at-risk students. However, if a principal chooses to put someone there just to get them out of the classroom or use that point in a different way, then of course that coach is going to be pointless.
We should be comparing apples to apples – and we need the national standards to go along with it. The days when industry varies from state to state are fading fast. We need to change to keep up with the global economy and adequately prepare our students.
Maureen's accountability metric
October 3rd, 2009
3:41 pm
Wouldn’t one think, that if a person who moderates a blog was in communication with the Director of Communications for the governor, that that would be the perfect time to ask the governor for further comment on the CRCT cheating scandal, to put more public pressure on the DOE to take further action on it?
And wouldn’t you especially think that if that moderator claimed to have a “single lens focus” on “what’s best for Georgia’s students”? We are in agreement that widespread cheating isn’t what’s best for Georgia’s students, are we not?
Or are those thoughts just too unpleasant to contemplate on a sunny afternoon?
Or are they just too truthful for some to ever want to contemplate?
Maureen's accountability metric
October 3rd, 2009
4:03 pm
Another post lost to the blog monster. Guess it was my fault for using “truthful” and “AJC” in the same post.
ScienceTeacher671
October 3rd, 2009
5:37 pm
@catlady, exactly right! The students who are socially promoted without passing the 8th grade CRCT will almost certainly drop out or fail, unless they are on an IEP, because they don’t have the skills to do middle school work, much less high school level work.
@ Dr. Craig Spinks, unless an 8th grade student “exceeds expectations” on the 8th grade CRCT, s/he probably isn’t working anywhere near grade level in reading, math, or writing.
Our graduation coach is fantastic, but was also a fantastic classroom teacher. Unfortunately, the teacher who replaced the GC in the classroom is not fully certified and (IMHO) incompetent.
Clarence
October 5th, 2009
11:16 am
There is no data I am aware of that shows graduation coaches have done a thing to improve graduation rates. Pointing to the result does not justify one of many potential causes…
Followup: Grad rates and governor’s response | Get Schooled
October 5th, 2009
12:43 pm
[...] A short note from Dana Tofig, DOE spokesman, on the comments in response to the earlier entry on the Governor’s Office and grad rates: [...]
Disgusted
October 5th, 2009
1:54 pm
LOVE to hear Mr. Brantley’s take on the info below. All I have asked is is this an OK way to play with graduation rates? No one at any level local or state level will answer the flipping question! How about
“Let’s take a closer look at AYP in our high schools. Graduation rates and the graduation tests are the big deal here as mentioned in the article. http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/article/21112/
It seems that there is now a practice (last 2 years or so) where the students who may be graduating without an actual diploma, but with a Certificate of Performance, (these students would count against the graduation rate and passing rates for the graduation tests and therefore AYP for the schools) are systematically being transferred to the Lanier Career Academy right before graduation (a matter of days in some cases).
This increases all the other 6 high school’s graduation rates artificially. The Career Academy is small and is never expected to do all that well any way so no biggie on AYP there. In fact on the State AYP site it reads “There are not enough students in this school for the AYP determination to be
statistically reliable, therefore an AYP determination has not been made for this
school. These students are included in the District and State AYP reports.” in reference to the Career Academy. (http://public.doe.k12.ga.us/ayp2008/overview.asp?SchoolID=669-0105-a-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0)
Interesting. Let’s look at some numbers found on the Governor’s Office of Student Achievement site regarding Hall County students receiving Certificates of Performance over the past few years now ( http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/ReportingFW.aspx?PageReq=111&PID=62&PTID=69&CountyId=669&T=0&FY=2008 ) (look under the Report card tab for each school and then under the “Indicators” tab for information on High School Completers).
Numbers for the 2005-06 school year for the Lanier Career Academy show 12 students graduating with a Certificates of Performance. In 2006-07 The Career Academy had 16 students graduating with a Certificates of Performance. In 2007-08 (the same year Hall County finally made AYP in all High Schools I believe) The Career Academy has a whopping 47 students graduating with a Certificates of Performance. Wow! What is that – something like a 48% increase from 2006-07? HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?!
Good question. Let’s look at the other 6 High Schools now.
If you look at the 6 combined (excluding the Career Academy) in 2005-06 they had 97 students graduating with a Certificates of Performance. In 2006-07 the 6 reported 91 students graduating with a Certificates of Performance. In 2007-08 they reported 28, about a 48% decrease from the year before. Oh I see now. Tricky tricky!! It seems like they are transferring the kids that will hurt their scores to the Career Academy between the taking of the Graduation tests and actual graduation. Neat trick! Really helps to make that pass on AYP.
So in 2006-07 the Career Academy had 16 students out of the Hall County District’s 107 students receiving a Certificate of Performance. In 2007-08 The Career Academy had 47 out of the Hall County District’s 75 students receiving a Certificate of Performance. Unreal! Any statisticians out there want to compute those odds?
All schools were fairly consistent in their Certificate of Performance numbers between 2005-06 to 2006-07. However, from 2006-07 to 2007-08, West Hall High went from 17 students graduating with a Certificates of Performance down to 0. Johnson High went from 23 to 8. North Hall High stayed at 8 for both years (not going to pull that up there I guess). Chestatee High went from 17 to 2. Flowery Branch High went from 12 to 10 (after being at 19 the year prior) and East Hall High went from 14 to 0.
Haven’t looked at the numbers for 2008-09 yet, but I will bet quite a bit that they are low again at the 6 high schools and higher at the Career Academy as it seems they did the same thing.
Have to wonder how ethical this is? Is it cheating? Is it fraud? You be the judge.
Also have to wonder if a disproportionate number of these students are economically disadvantaged, special needs or of a certain minority status.”
Sarge
October 6th, 2009
7:51 pm
No matter how one looks at it…no matter how this mystery formula gets revised and revamped…WE’RE CELEBRATING MEDIOCRITY. Like the teacher who rewards failing students with enough points to not only pass, but get “A” grades. What’s behind this reward? Teacher wants to recognize student attempt at “trying”…false motivation…probably the cruelest thing a teacher can impart upon a student. GO AHEAD AND PAT YOURSELVES ON THE BACK…BASK IN THE DELUSIONARY GLOW OF FALSE ACHIEVEMENT, I’m sure the kids and the kids’ parents will appreciate this feel-good self-congratulatory nonsense.