Suspending kids: Smart discipline or academic disaster?
Catlady has made my morning chores easier by already addressing the interesting story in today’s AJC about the number of suspensions in Georgia schools and whether all this time spent out of the classroom impacts learning and ultimately hurts rather than helps.
Gracie Bonds Staples reports:
According to state Department of Education figures, more than 370,000 students were placed in in-school and out-of-school suspension last year.
In all, Georgia students lost more than 1.8 million days of instruction last year due to suspensions.
As a parent, I will tell you that the threat of suspension catches my attention. In his senior year of high school, my oldest son began to slack off on getting to school on time. Based on his late slips, he never was more than three or four minutes late but his first period teacher was rightfully indignant. When we received the letter that he was nearing the point of suspension, we went bonkers and introduced a Marine-style regimen to his mornings, beginning with an occasional bugle wake-up by my trumpet-playing husband.
So, I understand the power of strong medicine in inducing behavior changes, both in parents and kids.
But it seems like missing class will only add to a student’s ill behavior. Here is what Catlady posted. Please read her comments and the story and let’s discuss as this is an important issue.
FROM CATLADY’S POST: I am appauled at the simplistic article in the paper that being suspended causes children to drop out. I guess we now will say that drinking coffee on an airline causes air turbulance!
Children are suspended for a reason. In my school, virtually NEVER, even for ISS. But I accept that in other counties discipline standards are better adhered-to. Children who are suspended have ALREADY dropped out–they have already disengaged, for various reasons, with their education. The children who do behave appropriately are already subjected to many, many hours of disruption by these in-school dropouts. That many of them are way behind is not a surprise. One of the ways that students get behind is failing to take any responsibility for their learning. I currently push into 2 classes where the majority of the students are a year or two behind in reading NOT because of lack of ability, but because their behavior interferes in their learning. They are accustomed to doing as they wish, and have no practice in focusing on anything they don’t want to do. Luckily they are grouped together now so they don’t impede the learning of so many others in reading. Unfortunately there are still a few kids in these classes who do want to learn but are impeded by lack of English. I’d like to get them out of there, as they lose significant time waiting on their classmates to engage in a positive way so that the class can go forward.
While being sent out of class is frequently a negative for these kids, it is a positive for the others in the class. And sometimes, as noted in the article, the PARENT can make the ISS experience positive for the child by reinforcing that it should not happen again.
Like the old days when parents had pride in their children’s positive behavior, instead of whining and giving more attention to them as “victims.
Maureen again: One of our regular posters is working on an op-ed for me on this issue and I hope she posts today as I think she takes a different view than Catlady.
What is your view?
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101 comments Add your comment
Annoyed Admin
September 30th, 2009
10:38 am
Most administrators I know entered this profession because they are teachers. I personally hate having to suspend a student from school. However, one has to also consider the impact leaving a disruptive student in the classroom has on the other 30 students who are doing the right thing. For the individual student who is being suspended, at some point it it imperative that this student learn that in life there are consequences that are a direct correlation to our behavior. Repeat traffic violations will ultimately result in a the loss of driving privileges, as they are impeding the safety of the other drivers on the road. The same holds true in the classroom–students with chronic discipline problems will and should be removed from the classroom, as they are impeding the education of others because of their own actions. Ultimately if students do not learn appropriate behavior they inevitably wind up in other tax supported institutions that are not nearly as accommodating or forgiving as the public school. Parents who continually make excuses for their children need to realize that prisons today are filled with angels whose parents insist it’s not their fault.
oldtimer
September 30th, 2009
10:43 am
Our system uses Sat. School with paid staff to make up OSS work. They can get help if they need it. There is also one afternoon a week to make-up missed days and one afternoon for discipline…..they pick up trash for two hours.
DeKalb Conservative
September 30th, 2009
10:44 am
@ TCHR and TCHR supporters-
Are you people crazy? Seriously are you event thinking of the flip side?
On the ban a cell phone for 12 month issue, what happens when a teen is put in a situation, say an abduction, that they can’t call for help because they have mobile phone restrictions.
If mobile phone usage is such a major problem in the classroom, let’s also look to why – could some of the A.D.D. be cause by a teacher that can’t lead?
Before we bring out the rulers to slap kids again and put other’s in the corner with a dunce cap on, think.
catlady
September 30th, 2009
10:45 am
Reminds me of a 5th grader I taught several years ago. He was always in trouble–mostly disruptive. When I talked to his mom she blamed his problems on me–I was “against” him. Then she thoughtfully noted that EVERY ONE OF HIS TEACHERS EACH YEAR HE HAD BEEN IN SCHOOL HAD BEEN “AGAINST” HIM!!! All, seemingly without a clue. I said, “Boy, he has had bad luck having 6 years of teacher who were against him.” He was in juvie by the time he was 15, as predicted. I guess the judge was “against” him, too.
Mischa
September 30th, 2009
10:46 am
DigALittleDeeper – your suggestions are wonderful and make me feel all warm and tingly inside, but, the reality is – when I have a “student” cursing me out in the front of 30 other students, I don’t have time to mentor him/her. I want that person out of my room and away from the other students as quickly as possible. That person didn’t value his education nor the educational opportunity of the other students in the room either. By the time I get them in high school – unfortunately it is sometimes to late for the Boys & Girls Club to rectify a bad situation…
Tonya C.
September 30th, 2009
10:48 am
Digalittledeeper:
Then take the lead in starting these programs. Grab the bull by the horns and create a plan for these things. Schools and their resources are already stretched thinner than phyllo dough. Things like you describe would require more and more time outside the classroom, time many teachers DON’T have. People love to listen to these ideas of yours; they just refuse to do any more work for free. The realities of a capitalist society. School social workers are doing more and more outside their job description.
School is for education. Anything more should be done by the community in which the schools exist. In fact, the schools were students are excelling seemed to have mastered this concept.
DeKalb Conservative
September 30th, 2009
10:50 am
@ Maureen
The original example (far past by this point) with your son brings up some good points of what high school prepares a person for.
Being late 3-4 minutes, though undeniably late, isn’t justification for and ISS. Detention, yes — ISS, no. Unless there were other factors, I would say you were dealing with a very insecure teacher that viewed your son’s tardiness more a reflection of respect and less for what it is — just tardiness.
Mischa
September 30th, 2009
10:51 am
**”too” late – sorry about the typo! I’m trying to eat lunch and blog at the same time!
Tonya C.
September 30th, 2009
10:52 am
Dekalb Conservative:
This is exactly what I was talking about. 911 can be accessed on a cell phone even when disconnected. ‘Nuf said. As someone who isn’t even 30 yet, even I can see how completely screwed up school has become.
DeKalb Conservative
September 30th, 2009
10:53 am
I’ve said on this blog several times that I feel reform school needs to be back into play. In an odd way to some students an ISS, or OSS will only draw more attention to them, reinforcing negative behavior. This pits the student (a peer) against the school administration, or a particular teacher.
Too often this doesn’t teach “shame” to the offending student and too many (of his) peers will feel sympathy.
Tonya C.
September 30th, 2009
10:55 am
And do any of you know why ISS has become so popular? Because giving a kid afterschool detention places the onus of the parents to transport the student instead of the school bus or afterschool program. And many parents whose kids are in extracurriculars were screaming bloody murder at administration for interrupting their kids ‘fun time’. Just saying….
DeKalb Conservative
September 30th, 2009
11:02 am
@ Tonya C.
I’m also under 30 and I agree with you. Probably like you, when I was in school drug dealers had beepers and eventually some kids had cell phones (a huge luxury). I realize just how much times have changed. People thought our generation was screwed up when we went to school. People think today’s kids are even more messed up. The kids of today will think kids 10 years from now will be even more messed up.
As I watch things on the history channel and other sources, I think of the “Greatest Generation.” They did alot of the same things people do today, but without the technology benefit. It seems that as they approach the end of their lives, some of their stories are coming to light more.
While I realize 911 can be accessed on a cell phone, even when disconnected, I also believe that a subjective means of interpreting behavior with punishment of a private enterprise purchase (a cell phone), does not need to be connected. Each state, or worse, county, does not need a system of administrating cell phone permits to teens, which could be revoked if some school administration, board, or other bureaucracy sees fit.
Clueless
September 30th, 2009
11:03 am
Some behavior problems would be eliminated if we had a viable vocational track rather than trying to pretend that all students want to or have the ability to go to college.
Tonya C.
September 30th, 2009
11:06 am
Dekalb Conservative:
Today’s children are more and more violent and disrespectful. I truly believe every generation has its evils, but today with global competition our kids can’t afford the foolishness. TCHR was just throwing out some suggestions, because so many students just don’t care about much anymore. And I’m sooooo tired of people dismissing the power of shame and parental involvement. But I agree with you, it’s needs to be effective and not just done just to do it.
DeKalb Conservative
September 30th, 2009
11:16 am
@ Tonya C.
It might seem worse than 10 years ago when we were in school, but 10 years ago I for one, didn’t pay too much attention to more than local news. Had almost no access to the Internet, cell phone cameras / videos and viral video wasn’t created (think of all the stuff that makes the news that wouldn’t have 10 years ago)
A decade ago gave us:
– Marilyn Manson and suburban fears of teen devil warship
– Columbine High School massacr
– Notorious Big v. Tupac murders
Let’s not kid ourselves, things were looking bad back then and people where all afraid what would happen on 1/1/00. The changes in media coverage, including expanded 24 x 7 news coverage and technology, such as this blog, makes it appear that things are worse.
Think about it – 1990’s v. 2000’s:
- Hanson (Jonas Brothers)
- Columbine (Virgina Tech)
- Nortorious Big & Tupac (50 cent)
Bottom line – history repeats itself.
Tonya C.
September 30th, 2009
11:37 am
Dekalb Conservative:
History may repeat itself, but the circumstances and responses to it have changed greatly. While most people were worried about Hanson and MTV, I was reading the WSJ and listening to conservative and liberal talk radio. I loved CNN and the access to international headlines it brought. And I’ve been hip to BBC ever since I started watching ‘Are you being served?’ at around age 9.
People’s reactions are different. A kid got suspended even 10 years ago…tough luck. What were you doing that got you kicked out? ISS was for losers and anybody with a brain tried to avoid it at all costs. There is a desensitization to violence and authority that is..scary. Combine that with an all-time high entitlement mentality and well, no wonder our countries greatest minds are being imported.
After attending open house at my son’s elementary school I told my husband that the public school system was far too feel good and cuddly for my taste. No wonder these kids are soft. My principal kept a paddle on the wall over his desk. Just having it there was enough to scare most kids straight. But I’m very ‘old-school’ in that my love is balanced with discipline and my kids’ egos aren’t at the top of my list of issues to tackle, especially when it comes to character molding.
FultonTeacher
September 30th, 2009
11:51 am
It is obvious that whether a student receives OSS or ISS varies from school to school. For those that don’t feel digging a little deeper to find out the cause of why some kids, particularly those in elementary and middle are misbehaving, I say change careers. I’ve dug a little deeper and discovered that a child that refused to interact with other students for a group activity had been molested. I dug a little deeper and discovered that the student that blew up on me was born addicted to drugs. I’ve dug a little deeper and discovered that the reason a child was so disruptive is because her mom promised to spend her 14th birthday with her, but instead ended up in jail AGAIN! Digging a little deeper can help you help them. If you’re only in this to help the kids that “want” to learn, you should change careers.
OSS and ISS is over used in Fulton County. Westlake High School, Sandtown and others wills suspend your kids for just about anything. Yes, 4 tardies and you’re suspended. Leave your shirt tucked out more than once, you’re suspended. Do anything disruptive and you’re suspended. Then, they’re scrambling second semester trying to see how many kids have been suspended to that they can make AYP. Attendance ties into AYP. It’s not effective discipline, it’s a joke!
catlady
September 30th, 2009
12:27 pm
Once is a mistake. Twice (or more) is a habit that needs to be broken. I don’t think the average (nonteacher) poster has a clue about how often the plans for the class are disrupted by students who COULD learn to behave, if they had swift removal from class (and their peers) and other followup. The money and time lost for the rest of the class is astronomical!
My son had ISS once (he liked it, he said, because he could just sit there and do his work) and OSS once for 3 days. I fully supported both and made it clear that it merited followup at home. Generally “good” kids can make errors in judgement, but their parents make sure they learn from the mistakes. My younger daugher had “time for self” for one day and, being the social animal that she is, never repeated the egregious behavior, as there were home penalties as well. Parental followup (which does not mean defending the child’s behavior) is one key to stopping the behavior.
Maureen's accountability metric
September 30th, 2009
12:35 pm
From Catlady,
“I don’t think the average (nonteacher) poster has a clue about how often the plans for the class are disrupted by students who COULD learn to behave, if they had swift removal from class (and their peers) and other followup. The money and time lost for the rest of the class is astronomical!”
I don’t think a truer comment has ever been posted on this blog. And it goes double for our politicians, because not only do they not know, deep down inside they really don’t want to know, because it’s easier to blame “the schools” as a collective entity, than it is tell the individual voter where the responsibility truly lies.
Thus the thing that we need to address most, is the one thing we are the least willing to be honest about.
Elsie
September 30th, 2009
1:27 pm
I agree with Tony and others who state that suspensions are a necessary evil.
What surprised me most about this article was the fairly tenuous connection drawn between suspensions and dropping out. What’s the phrase I’m searching for? Correlation does not necessarily equal causation. As stated in the article:
“What we’ve found is that kids who are not literate or up with their classmates are the kids who tend to get in trouble,” said Bromery. “If you get their literacy up so they can engage in what’s going on in the classroom, they’re less likely to be disruptive.”
Teachers have long seen the students who act out to distract from the fact that they can’t keep up. Now I know that suspensions don’t help get a student caught up, but shouldn’t we be looking at this as an effect, rather than the cause? I think there might be a few other contributing factors to dropping out!
DigALittleDeeper
September 30th, 2009
1:58 pm
Actually, I’m a non-teacher and I absolutely do have a clue about the disruption in class. I’ve seen it for myself, I hear about it from my child and I hear it from teachers. However, it’s the teacher who knows how to deal with a disruptive child that I have the most respect for as a parent and as a citizen of my community. I’ve seen and I’ve met a few. They have a no tolerance, take no prisoners and still get the job done attitude. My daughter had such a teacher in the fifth grade. Her reputation was so bad, that my daughter was afraid to be in her class. The week before school actually started, we made a visit to the school and met with the teacher. She was very much aware of the fear the kids had and made my daughter feel very much at home with her. This teacher was so good with the students, that the other teachers would send their children to her class. I witnessed such actions on a field trip. She had all of the disciplinary students in her group. I sat near those students on the charter bus and watched her in action on the field trip. If cloning was legal, I would hope we could have several thousand duplicates made.
My daughter grew to love this teacher. She learned a lot in the fifth grade and still talks about this particular teacher to this day. My daughter started high school this year and tells me that her Chemistry teacher is the smartest person she knows and that this woman can see out the back of her head. She also has a take no prisoner attitude and knows how to keep her students in line. I haven’t seen her in action, but my daughter gives me the goods and I believe her.
We’ve all been in highschool and there are always a few teachers that the kids knew NOT to mess with. I’ve heard language I care not to repeat, spoken to teachers and I have seen teachers hit accidentally and on purpose by students. I’ve also seen teachers and administrators, who knew how to handle it and didn’t take it personally. I’ve even seen a few teachers cry and some who walked out during class. They probably should find new jobs. But, if you can’t take this from children, you will be shocked about what happens in a manufacturing environment or in the business world. I’ve seen worse (crying, fighting and down right foul language hurled at employees and employers). It could be worse, you could be working with the parents of the children that disrupt your class. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, I suggest you dig a little deeper.
cobbteach
September 30th, 2009
2:19 pm
A few years ago a young lady in my English class repeatedly demonstrated her ability to back-sass and “cop a ‘tude” with me. I called the parent for a conference, and mom showed some real parental creativity. She sentenced her daughter to wearing the same outfit to school for 5 days in a row – and Mom picked out the outfit! And she promised that each and every time a teacher called, Mom would re-institute the punishment. Things settled down right away, and life was good again. Yay creativity!
Terry
September 30th, 2009
2:32 pm
I have not read all the comments here, so I will just cut to the chase here in giving my opinion. I am not an educator either. But I see the number of suspensions as a problem because the long term costs to communities is practically immeasurable. This problem is often written about by academia and politicians and called the Schoolhouse to Prison Pipeline. The solution in my book is to identify problem/at risk children earlier and help them in a collaborative effort between schools, community leaders and parents. Why do I care, because one of my children could have been a statistic, but fortunately, through the Grace of God, my son was able to pull himself up and out and get to college where he now is flourishing.
Terry
September 30th, 2009
2:37 pm
here’s a link to a story where a kids tribunal decision was overturned:
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=FCNB&p_theme=fcnb&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&s_dispstring=tribunal%20decision%20overturned%20AND%20date%28all%29&p_field_advanced-0=&p_text_advanced-0=%28tribunal%20decision%20overturned%29&xcal_numdocs=20&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&xcal_useweights=no
Joy in Teaching
September 30th, 2009
2:37 pm
“If mobile phone usage is such a major problem in the classroom, let’s also look to why – could some of the A.D.D. be cause by a teacher that can’t lead? ”
I’m sorry…but that’s probably the absolutely DUMBEST comment I’ve ever read on this blog. Seriously. ADD is a medical disorder. It is NOT caused by a teacher.
Terry
September 30th, 2009
2:48 pm
And I also believe that it is far too easy to place blame solely on parents and children. Let’s face it, not all kids ‘get it’ right off the bat. Some kids are coming from a lot of turmoil in a home. Economy is in the tank. People are just frustrated with a lot of different things. There is not one size fits all answer to this problem either. Catlady… it is just so easy for educators to place blame on kids and parents. That IMHO is part of the problem.
catlady
September 30th, 2009
3:02 pm
A “tough” teacher HAS to be backed up by her principal and school board in addition to having good management skills.
And on the “getting to the root of it”–when a behavior problem is a one time thing, or even for a few weeks/months, that is one thing. But these that have persisted for years have been ENABLED.
Terry
September 30th, 2009
3:17 pm
catlady – do you do functional behavior assessments
high school teacher
September 30th, 2009
4:11 pm
“It could be worse, you could be working with the parents of the children that disrupt your class. ”
I think that’s my favorite statement that I have ever read on this blog
David S
September 30th, 2009
4:28 pm
The more days a kid spends outside of the government indoctrination centers the better off they are.
Homeschool parents. They are YOUR kids after all.
Prof. Seeman
September 30th, 2009
4:30 pm
You make some good points above.
However, I also think that this can be helpful to you:
The book and Training Video: PREVENTING Classroom Discipline Problems
If you can get this book and video: [they are in many libraries, so you don't have to buy them] email me and I can refer you to the sections of the book and video [that demonstrates the effective vs. the ineffective teacher] that can help you.
If your library does not have them, you can get them at:
http://www.panix.com/~pro-ed/
that are also used at this online course:
http://www.ClassroomManagementOnline.com
See: Reviews at: http://classroommanagementonline.com/comteach.html
If you cannot get the book or video, email me anyway, and I will try to help.
Best regards,
Howard
Howard Seeman, Ph.D.
Professor Emeritus,
City Univ. of New York
Prof. Seeman
Hokaja@aol.com
——————————————————————————–
Terry
September 30th, 2009
4:41 pm
David S, homeschool may seem like a pat answer; however how does that get accomplished when families may have to work 2 jobs each to make ends meet? And believe me I am all for school choice..let the money follow the student – both federal and state dollars. I get to choose and even the teachers get to pick where they want to work. Sounds like a win- win to me. But of course the educators will follow the scare tactics of teacher organizations surrounding the issue of school choice. All of which have been refuted with the successes already mounting in locales that do have school choice.
high school teacher
September 30th, 2009
4:49 pm
David S, do you really think that EVERYONE should homeschool their kids?
Sarge
September 30th, 2009
4:56 pm
Suspension is probably one of the most-sought after forms of “punishment”…hey, dig it! No teachers to hastle the kid, no having to go from this room to that room, no “other” idiot kids to mess with…and best of all, you can relax all day.
Unfortunately, the law requires the taxpayer to educate the kid up to the age of 18. Ordinarily, this would be a good thing, however, an amendment to this law should indicate that when the kid demonstrates, through repeated disregard for order and discipline, that he/she is wasting limited public funds, that kid should be kicked free of the educational constraints imposed upon him/her and set upon the world. They will either wind up in low-level jobs or, more than likely, wards of the penal system. Either way, it is way past the time when parents and schools serve the role of babysitters to those who can’t/won’t hack it. We must stop wee weeing around with these losers whose only accomplishment will be an early demise. If, in time, they wish to get with the program, let them do so on their own steam.
Maureen's accountability metric
September 30th, 2009
5:30 pm
I readily admit I don’t know enough about Dr. Seeman to pass judgment on his program.
I just as readily admit to having a healthy skepticism of those safely ensconced in academia, some who haven’t taught in a public school classroom since Nixon was president, telling teachers how it should be done.
But one quote I found from Dr. Seeman was very encouraging as far as showing he might have some real understanding of the dynamics of it all:
“Furthermore, they (school administrators) need to go out of their way to back teachers’ rules in their classrooms, assuming that the teachers are “correct,” before declared guilty by a complaining parent.”
If there was one thing, and one thing only, that the government could “mandate” and truly improve public school education, one would be hard pressed to find a better starting point than the quote above.
Of course that requires a basic willingness to first seek to support the teacher, not first seek to blame the teacher. Do our politicians who endlessly promise to “reform” education, often by targeting the classroom teacher, have the will to try supporting the classroom teacher instead?
V for Vendetta
September 30th, 2009
6:22 pm
Terry,
Give you and your son some credit. God had nothing to do with it. If he was able to turn his life around, it is because he finally recognized the value of education and acted accordingly. I have read some of the research that contributes to the “School to Prison Pipeline” theory. I find it disgusting.
Value recognition is key, and you can’t force someone to recognize something as a value. You can communicate with them until you’re blue in the face, but, in the end, it all boils down to individual action and personal accountability. Kudos to your son for understanding that. I’m impressed by his decision. However, there are many, many students who have no trouble understanding why education is a value in their lives. Why don’t we spend more time worrying about them, and less time worrying about kids in the “prison pipeline.”
Terry
September 30th, 2009
6:30 pm
V – please tell me what you find ‘disgusting’ about the information out there about the school to jail pipeline issue?
And V, I can tell you flat out, it was not the school that helped us when we needed it either. I begged, I pleaded, hey …I was ignored.
Terry
September 30th, 2009
6:33 pm
No educator wanted to help us. No school personnel wanted to help us. IT was the same flat look of indifference every time I attempted a conference – V that’s what happened to me.
This same thing is happening to thousands of students. Deliberate indifference. Period.
Terry
September 30th, 2009
6:41 pm
‘impressed by his decision’…. Man do I have a story to tell you. It wasn’t his decision. He was incapable of making the decision. He needed guidance and help. No one wanted to help him. No one.
V for Vendetta
September 30th, 2009
6:51 pm
“Man do I have a story to tell you. It wasn’t his decision.”
So he’s just a puppet and someone is making his decisions for him? What kind of life is that? If that’s the case, then what is there to be impressed by? The only way–the ONLY way–a troubled student can turn the ship around is by recognizing the value of an education. Anything else is just a temporary fix.
As for the school . . . maybe they were tired of dealing with him. If he was as bad as you say, and things had gone as far as you imply, then why would teachers, administrators, or principals want to keep banging their collective heads against the wall. That is the part of the with which I disagree: It places the blame for student’s discipline problems at the feet of the school employees. I found very few mentions of the negativity inflicted by abhorrent and/or neglectful parents from birth to age five–the time period before the child is even in the school system.
Terry
September 30th, 2009
7:11 pm
V- It was much more complicated than you suggest. It is not as simplistic as you would like to believe. Far far more complicated than I can go into detail here. The problem V is that you claim to have all these answers, but each kid is different. They have stuff they are dealing with in general.
Postive behavior supports works– but will you poo-poo that too? It’s been implemented and when it is done effectively, a lot of these issues resolve, and the kids learn. I am a proponent of it. I only wish it was in effect when my oldest was in school years ago.
Are you aware that the brains of juveniles are not fully developed til like age 25? Kids don’t fit neatly into all those labels and boxes. They don’t. They’re individuals, with individual quirkiness and all the wonderful things that go with that. They’re human; not robots. Why is it our kids must behave like robots.. this is not realistic. I am all for law and order, but some of these comments here are just mind boggling.
What do you say to the kid who has a parent in the hospital all the time, in and out, sick as all get out. What do you say….oh just get over it? Come on! Be real.
The more I visit here and read the comments by educators, the more convinced I am that parents need choices in education. Whether it be homeschool, online school, private school,…whatever it takes. Not every kid does well in the traditional brick and mortar setting. Not every kid can manage being bullied day in and day out and have to live with it. Not every kid can take over crowding in the classroom or in the hallways. I only wish I had the money to have pulled my kid out at the time. If only I could have, if only I could have.
concerned in Gwinnett
September 30th, 2009
9:32 pm
Why is Georgia close to the bottom in regards to graduation rates but near the top for incarceration? We need to rethink our school discipline policies and engage more of our students. A child does not choose their parents. We will be paying for the drop outs, as a society, for many years to come.
JEM
September 30th, 2009
10:13 pm
I think that all of the people who made comments and have never taught Middle School should spend a week as a substitute in a MS. Then, the discussion would be on a level playing field. Most who haven’t taught troubled children just don’t get it. Try it and I guarantee you will learn how difficult it is to deal with “repeat offenders” and offer a positive learning experience to the children who interested in learning and participating. Most teachers care about their students, including the workers and the pranksters. I agree totally with an earlier blogger who said that we need to have trade schools for the students who are not going to college. Irrelevance of college bound curriculum to many students causes a lot of the disruption, but not all.
David S
October 1st, 2009
11:55 am
yes, I think that everyone should homeschool their kids or should be accountable for their education by paying someone to school them. There should absolutely be no government involvement in the process nor any forcible taxation to pay for it. Every problem that is discussed on this blog is a problem that only plagues the government schoo system. Coincidence? I think not.
David Granger
October 1st, 2009
12:49 pm
When a student is suspended, the school system is saying to him or her: You have already proven that you are NOT going to take the opportunity to learn…so we have given up on you, and are preventing you from coming in and disrupting class and preventing OTHERS from learning. Hopefully your parent(s) will do whatever necessary so that…when you are allowed to return…you will then at least not be so eager to disrupt others.
Ordinarily, I don’t really give a rat’s ass how European countries do things, but their education system is run much better than ours. If it becomes obvious that a child is going to continually be a disruprtion to others, they are kicked out of school PERMANENTLY.
Publicschulz
October 1st, 2009
3:18 pm
Concerned in gwinnett…when you say that we should rethink our discipline policies you are correct but they should be tougher. The problem in public school is a behavior problem is not really a measure of a students intelligence so teachers are forced to accept work that is late, lazy and lacking, and give a student fully credit. They act like an idiot in class? Well then the teacher must not be teaching to their preferred learning modality and they are disengaging and being disruptive. There are no consequences for students from pre-k through 12th grade so they get out and do stupid things and get arrested. But it really isn’t their fault. It’s ours for not doing enough right?!
Publicschulz
October 1st, 2009
3:28 pm
I have to agree with JEM that all students are not going to college and don’t need to go to college. Middle school is a good time for students to start thinking about what they want to do in life. If StudentA says I want to be doctor, then great we need doctors thats an honorable profession. You need to be taking chemistry, biology, and microbiology. IF student B says, I want to work on cars, then great we need people to work on cars and thats an honorable profession, you need to take mechanics, body shop, and general mathmatics. Learn a trade. Find something productive to do in life.
danny
October 1st, 2009
10:20 pm
i received a call this morning from my son’s school that he can not ride in school bus from tomorrow becasue he is try to open window in bus. He is 5 year old kid and its been only one month to school open and this is first time he is on school bus. Instead of give him time or right education that how to seat in school bus they just called me. They could have tried for him seat change or not window seat but i belive our school system dose not want to put some extra effort. When i talked to my son this evening i told him that you can not do this in school bus and he said sorry daddy i will not do it but he is going to miss his school bus ride from tomorrow.
I would say kids can learn if you give them little space.
thank you
theriver
October 5th, 2009
10:26 pm
To those parents who feel scbools suspend your child too much…
GET OFF YOUR LAZY A$$ and TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR CHILD!!! Who’s the adult? you or them??! When parents do what is in the best interest of children and actually RAISE them and not just grow them and throw designer clothes on them, students WILL take education seriously when YOU DO!!
Defessa
October 6th, 2009
12:09 pm
When my daughter was in 6th grade there was a classmate that continually disrupted instruction. This boy esclated his behaviour until he would be removed from class, almost on a daily basis. When my daughter was in class with him she would say that nothing could/would get done until he was removed–usually to ISS, sometimes to OSS.
The boy moved away from the school at the beginning of the 2nd semester, and I noticed a difference in her homework, her grades, and her attitude towards school.
My question: Which child was “Left Behind”? I believe there was a class full of left behind children in order to accomodate the one.