Jesus in the bleachers: Why sis-boom-bah and the Bible don’t mix at football games
Tuesday's rally in Catoosa County for the Bible-verse carrrying cheerleaders drew 500 supporters. AP Photo/The Chattanooga Times Free Press, Dan Henry
Why does the church-state issue continue to crop up in public schools?
The latest flare-up is here in Catoosa County where the Lakeview-Fort Oglethorpe High School cheerleaders turned to God when nothing else seemed to be helping their football team.
The cheerleaders created banners with Bible verses to change the fortunes of the team and displayed them during the football games. The banners are the sort that the players crash through as they enter the field and include such biblical verses as “I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.”
“The cheerleaders are not trying to push a religious cause, to shove religion down someone’s throat,” said youth minister Brad Scott to the Chattanooga Times Free Press. “The cheerleaders are just using scripture to show motivation and inspiration to the players and the fans.”
Apparently the cheerleaders have sought divine intervention through the banners since 2003 with the approval of the then football coach, but a complaint was only recently filed with Superintendent Denia Reese. Now, the banners are out.
“Personally, I appreciate this expression of their Christian values. However, as superintendent I have the responsibility of protecting the school district from legal action by groups who do not support their beliefs,” said Reese in a press statement.
As you might expect, the decision has rankled some people in Catoosa. A rally was held last night to protest the decision.
Among those entering the fray on the side of the cheerleaders is state Rep. Jay Neal, who told the rally crowd, “Our Founding Fathers had one thing in mind when they founded this country, and it was a Christian nation built upon the principles of Jesus Christ.”
Neal apparently hasn’t checked with the U.S Supreme Court, which spoke to this issue in a 2000 decision that grew out of student-led prayers over the loud speaker at football games in Santa Fe, Texas
There are legal ways for students to gather for prayer, but this isn’t one of them, according to the Supreme Court.
The court ruled the prayers illegal because school authorities had made religious conformity the price of attending school athletic events. The court concluded that the district’s public prayer policy delivered a dangerous message that non-believers ”are outsiders” in the community and “encourages divisiveness along religious lines of a public school setting.”
Superintendent Reese has the support of the Anti-Defamation League, which sent her a letter today commending her for upholding the First Amendment to the Constitution.
Written by ADL Southeast Regional Director Bill Nigut, the letter states in part:
“ADL believes deeply in the importance of safeguarding freedom of religion in our increasingly pluralistic nation. This position is not one of hostility toward religion; rather, it reflects a profound respect for religious freedom and recognition of the extraordinary diversity of religions represented by the students and staff in our public schools. It is essential that high school sports programs keep in mind that the children entrusted to your care likely have widely divergent religious points of view. Your decision shows respect for this diversity.
Of course students have the right to individually express their religious beliefs and it is commendable that you have sought out alternatives that can meet the needs of your students and stay within the principles of the First Amendment.
Can we all say “amen” to that?
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316 comments Add your comment
sam
October 1st, 2009
11:30 am
how would the folks in catoosa county (or any where else) feel if the banner read “Praise be Allah, god willing we will score 8 TD’s tonight” ? probably be a whole different freedom of religion, freedom of speech discussion going on….
Atlanta Native
October 1st, 2009
11:30 am
Send your kid to a religious school, and banners can be made as you please. I pay for my child’s school because I want him to get a good education.
Send them to government school and there cannot be overt Christian, Jewish or other elements.
Pretty simple.
So many christians, so few lions.
October 1st, 2009
11:31 am
It is so amusing how little prodding it takes to get the sheeple to gnash their teeth and stampede over the cliff into the valley of their own self-perpetuated ignorance. This is easier than shooting fish in a barrel. I think I have found a new hobby to keep me occupied whenever I run out of ways to commit sin. Yee Haw!
Chaps
October 1st, 2009
11:33 am
If the cheerleaders’ sign were verses from the Koran in Arabic, AJC writers would be praising them and defending them in the name of diversity and tolerance.
Jenny
October 1st, 2009
11:35 am
I think that half the comments on here are ludicrous. Is this what the world has become today? We are totally off track. There is one truth, and that is the Bible. These cheerleaders were not forcing others to abide by this bible verse, but were simply stating it on the banners. I think that people need to wake up and see where they are headed in life. People are totally ignorant in that they not looking to find out what is real. In the end, we will see who the Almighty is. God is going to strike down those who are ashamed of Him. He, and only He, will have the ultimate say in it all. My heart goes out to those who are astray and do not see the truth. I will be praying for you. GOD BLESS AMERICA, because we really need it!
monty
October 1st, 2009
11:40 am
So many Christians, so Few Lions
You’re right! It took very little prodding to get you to respond! LOL!
R is for Reason
October 1st, 2009
11:41 am
It’s heartening to see the voices of reason and rationality being voiced here!. Thanks V!
” I contemplate with sovereign reverence the act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.” – Thomas Jefferson.
Jesus Tapdancing Christ
October 1st, 2009
11:41 am
If everyone lived by the Golden Rule then the world would be a better place…that being said…this garbage has no place at a football game. People that do not practice the Christian faith have to deal with this crap all the time. There SHOULD be a distinct seperation between church and state but there just isn’t. And when someone points that out, Christians get all pissy and defensive, despite the fact that what they are doing is highly offensive.
And please spare me the tolerance argument. Christians are some of the most intolerant people on this earth.
sam
October 1st, 2009
11:43 am
am i being censored for mentioning allah?
sam
October 1st, 2009
11:44 am
apparently not
sam
October 1st, 2009
11:45 am
chaps, you dont really believe that do you? if they were written in arabic the chearleeders wouldnt have made it onto the field..
monty
October 1st, 2009
11:46 am
Anyone believing this nation was founded by men who laid there religious beliefs and convictions to the side while they crafted our governmental institutions in a religious vacuum or void is seriously deluded.
lovelyliz
October 1st, 2009
11:54 am
Johnny be good
Good Christians just are they don’t have to tell everyone. I’ve never known a truly good Christian who had to tell the world they were such.
One of the reasons I am automatically suspicious of false prophets and politicians who tell me what Good conservative Christians they are. They usually aren’t.
So many christians, so few lions.
October 1st, 2009
11:56 am
Gee Monty, I guess you really got me with that one. Indeed you must be one the more clever sheeple, with your obvious understanding of semantics. Perhaps it was my mistake to visit this website under the premise that I could read some real news, versus listening to how a bunch of dim-witted country bumpkins are in a rage about the fact that their fairy tales are no longer accepted by the free thinkers of today’s society. But, I guess you really showed me. Mark another point on the scorecard for the idiots. Baaah baaah! Your herd is calling it’s leader.
lovelyliz
October 1st, 2009
11:56 am
I guess they have no Jewish cheerleaders
Wiccans United
October 1st, 2009
11:57 am
Wait – let me open my mouth wider while you cram Jesus down my throat.
Richard Hamilton
October 1st, 2009
11:57 am
The Epic of Gilgamesh is a fictional story, without any major historical evidence that there is any truth from eye witnesses, historical figures, etc.
Any historian will tell you that the bible, whether they believe it or not, is historically accurate. You can’t compare a fairy tale with the truth. Dating methods and evolution are just a few of the lies, that are quite easily disproven, that scientist want you to believe without questioning. I love how people who have never investigated the truth in the bible will believe anything that scientist hand them on a silver platter.
Scientist are wrong everyday my friend! There original tablets from the gilamesh myth have never been found, and most rational scientist, even non-believers agree that the flood account was added much later because the flow, language, and story change dramatically from the previous 10 tablets. You can blast holes in your logic all day long with actual facts. If you basing your so called fallacy of the Bible off the Epic of Gilgamesh…that’s sad. Do some research for a change instead of believing what people tell you. I’m not telling you to go to church, just check your facts. There is a book called the “Case for Christ” you should read. If you want scientific facts, check out answersingenesis.org There are actual Proven theories by well known scientist that support Creationism, and contradict all the crap they feed you in America today.
Jeff
October 1st, 2009
11:57 am
monty:
Ever think that these men, traitors to their home country due to their absolute love of Freedom, knew in the deepest parts of their being that to interfere with Free Will was to interfere with God’s Greatest Gift – the very gift that sent Jesus Christ of Nazareth to that old rugged cross?
THINK! Without Free Will, there was NO reason for Christ to die! Why then does Government – and theocrats – think itself better than God?
Did Christ die for NOTHING?
sam
October 1st, 2009
11:57 am
news flash..our founding fathers were not perfect human beings, the constitution is not written in stone..things/people tend to change over the coutrse of a couple hundred years…this is not a christians-only nation (thank god)…get over yourselves. america was a much better place when religion and politics were kept to ourselves.
Positive Liberty » Go, Christians, Go!
October 1st, 2009
12:00 pm
[...] From the comments: Why does the church-state issue continue to crop up in public schools? [...]
Wiccans United
October 1st, 2009
12:01 pm
Hey Richard. At least we agree on one thing.
“You can’t compare a fairy tale with the truth”.
Sort of like comparing the fairy tale of creationism with the truth of evolution. It’s stupid to even try.
Rhonda
October 1st, 2009
12:01 pm
The students as individuals have every right to express their faith in public. The students as representatives of the school, do not have a right to do so because it says that the school is an evangelist for the Christian faith. Likewise, a teacher cannot tell the students to represent the Christian faith as representatives of the school. Here is the test: Would a banner that was raised by the Pep Squad each time a touchdown occurred that said, “Praise to Allah kind and merciful” be allowed?
America was founded on Christian principles. It is not a Christian nation. Iran is an Islamic nation. Islam is the state sanctioned religion. The ultimate rulers are religious leaders. There is a difference in a nation founded on the principles of a particular religion and being a ___________ (insert faith here) nation.
lovelyliz
October 1st, 2009
12:02 pm
If they want to stand across the street from the stadium and fly their banners, more power to them. Just not this way.
links for 2009-10-01 - Erick’s blog - RedState
October 1st, 2009
12:05 pm
[...] Jesus in the bleachers: Why sis-boom-bah and the Bible don’t mix at football games This is nuts. Had they instead put on "Use condoms" or "Allah be praised," everyone would have been cool with it. By the way, the AJC writer seems to think that what the cheerleaders were doing is unconstitutional. I call B.S. The Supreme Court decision the writer pointed to accurately noting, "The court ruled the prayers illegal because school authorities had made religious conformity the price of attending school athletic events," was also very clear that if it was student based, student led, and student inspired without the school system pushing it, then it was more likely than not acceptable. [...]
Wiccans United
October 1st, 2009
12:07 pm
When did condoms become a religion? Where do they worship? This is the best news I’ve heard all day. Sign me up for that church.
NetBanker
October 1st, 2009
12:07 pm
“You left out the Epic of Gilgamesh” YIKES! We can’t mention Gilgamesh and Christianity in the same post!! Gilgamesh practiced same-sex sex for goodness sake! Remember that he challenged Death itself in order to bring back his male partner? Then again Jesus never married or supposedly had sex with a woman and hung out with 12 men…not exactly the best role model for male/female relationships.
Aquagirl
October 1st, 2009
12:08 pm
Richard, if you can figure out how Noah crammed 2 (or more) of every animal on the ark, I’ll accept the bible as a historical document. Oh, and please locate the original stone tablets detailing Noah’s little adventure.
I suppose you also know where the lost ark of the covenant is located too. Better phone the Emory museum with that piece of info.
NetBanker
October 1st, 2009
12:13 pm
“This country was founded to protect the vested economic interests of the elite: Utlimately Shane is right. The founding of the nation really starts with the Declaration of Independence which fails to mention religion at all. The grievances listed are pretty much economic and about people having a say in how they are governed. Does the phrase “Taxation without representation” ring any bells?
The Big Bad Wolf
October 1st, 2009
12:13 pm
Going out to all of the ignorant fools that have become drunken on the Jesus juice!
As the wise Karl Marx once stated –
“Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, & the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.”
Wiccans United
October 1st, 2009
12:15 pm
Noah was doing okay with the two by two thing until he put the rat and the rat snake in the same room. Plus he had a helluva time with the tse tse fly and the mosquito – what annoying pests. And he had to travel all the way to Australia just to find a freaking Koala. And the damn dinosaurs pooped everywhere. That dove was relieved just to get out of the stinking mess.
Give me a break
October 1st, 2009
12:18 pm
LFO Cheerleaders seem to pick and choose what their players run through just like conservative evangelicals do to justify their politics.
Here are some great verses to put on a banner to run through! American nativist Christians like to pretend the New Testement is all peach and love.
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
People really pick and choose in the Old Testement to support their agendas. People go crazy if the 10 commandments are taken down, but igore most of the really nasty stuff in the Old Testement.
Here are some verses that would make great banners.
Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you
(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her
Someone Who Reads
October 1st, 2009
12:20 pm
“Any historian will tell you that the bible, whether they believe it or not, is historically accurate.”
You, my friend, are a special kind of stupid. The EARLIEST book of the New Testament wasn’t written until a century after Christs “death”. What eyewitnesses? Other than the bible, all the historical data we have concerning Jesus is Josephus talking about his sect and a few old documents. We have NO eyewitness accounts of ANYTHING in the bible.
NetBanker
October 1st, 2009
12:27 pm
“If you basing your so called fallacy of the Bible off the Epic of Gilgamesh…that’s sad.”
Richard…that was but one example cited. You completely skipped that the original poster pointed out numerous religions that existed before Christianity (or Judaism for that matter) that have the same exact story of Christ…virgin birth, healed sick, raised the dead, died, rose again after 3 days,etc. The story of Jesus is NOT original. It’s a remake of stories from other religions that worshiped gods other than the Christian God…which is really the Jewish God as well as the Islamic God.
The Big Bad Wolf
October 1st, 2009
12:31 pm
Mr. Richard Hamilton, or do you go by Dick?
“It’s mandatory to teach kids about Islam in California before they hit the 7th grade, but anything Christian is offensive. Welcome to America today where we exalt and bow down to other religious beliefs, cultures, etc. while we shove the principle that made this country great into the trash.
People wonder why we have gone from being a super power to a joke around the world. We have completely abandoned our belief system to cater to everyone and our country continues to slide into the toilet! The farther this country moves to the left, the worse it’s going to get.”
Perhaps you have forgotten that it was the conservative right wing who was responsible for falsely electing the biggest idiot to ever serve as President of this nation? W and his idiot followers are directly responsible for involving our nation in this crusade against Islam and driving our economy and its working people into a downward spiral. Clearly, you are a viewer of Fox News. Maybe you should spend less time playing with your Rush Limbaugh blow-up doll and pull your head out of your nether regions. Oxygen deprivation is really bad for your brain and I am quite sure that you are going to need both of those neurons in your thick skull to survive the Apocalypse. The sky is falling, see Dick run, run Dick run.
monty
October 1st, 2009
12:38 pm
Give me a break
You obviously know very little of the context in which those verses you gave were spoken. Take anyone’s words out of context and they become silly, trite or even mean spirited, But looked at in their given context they are actually the opposite. For example, unlike Islam(Christianity works like leaven in bread, slowly,and over time, behind the scenes if you will), not cramming things down peoples throats as some on here seem to think.CHristianity was the driving principle behind abolishing slavery both here and in Great Britain.Just because the Apostle Paul didn’t tell every slave to throw off their yokes when 50% of the known Roman dominated world were slaves in that day shouldn’t surprise anyone who is against anarchy. Plus the slaves of that day were more like employees than in other cultures. The majority became voluntary “servants” not what we typically call slaves. The fact that we even have an “America” is due to the influences of Christianity on the Western World. “God has shed his grace on thee.” Amen!
J is for Judas
October 1st, 2009
12:46 pm
Ditto to the comment by Someone Who Reads!
A special kind of stupid is a nice way of addressing the issue at hand here.
However, lets not forget that the King James “Version” of the Bible is one of the greatest books of fiction ever pieced together by dictators and tyrants in all of history.
WINGRIGHT
October 1st, 2009
12:59 pm
HOW ABOUT THAT PALIN! #1 ON BOTH AMAZON AND B&N! NOW STICK THAT IN YOUR LOOTER/MOOCHER LIBERAL PIPE AND SMOKE IT!
monty
October 1st, 2009
1:01 pm
J IS For Judas
Are you saying all you are is highly evolved pond scum?
Vince
October 1st, 2009
1:09 pm
It’s 4th down, you are down by three and on your own 35 yard line with 90 seconds left in the game.
What would Jesus do?
NetBanker
October 1st, 2009
1:15 pm
Vince
October 1st, 2009
1:09 pm
It’s 4th down, you are down by three and on your own 35 yard line with 90 seconds left in the game.
What would Jesus do?
My guess is that Jesus would stand there confused because football wasn’t even invented when he lived.
V for Vendetta
October 1st, 2009
1:53 pm
Richard Hamilton,
First off, I have read The Case for Christ. I found it completely unconvincing. There are enormous holes in its argument along with many “proofs” that one must accept at face value without a shred of corroborating evidence. Hardly a “case.” The fact that the author claims to have been converted to Christianity from Atheism by his research proves the shallowness of his convictions and knowledge. Secondly, I wanted to thank you for proving my point. You said:
“The Epic of Gilgamesh is a fictional story, without any major historical evidence that there is any truth from eye witnesses, historical figures, etc.”
You’re right. The Epic of Gilgamesh IS a fictional story, much like the Bible. If you had actually read the Epic of Gilgamesh, then you might understand why I chose to mention that particular story after all of the others mentioned earlier by Huh.
The story of Utnapishtim, otherwise known as the “Flood Story” or “Deluge Myth,” contains a nearly word-for-word account of what was later molded by Hebrews into the story of Noah. You don’t have to be a historian to know that the Hebrews and Sumerians crossed paths numerous times, most notably when the Hebrews were kept in captivity by the Babylonians. This happened long after the Epic of Gilgamesh was written, but it predates the first written accounts of the Bible by roughly five hundred years.
Deluge myths are common in nearly every culture on Earth as a way to explain what seemed to them to be world-wide flooding. In fact, often times the floods were local, ranging only a few miles in either direction, but ancient peoples had no way of knowing this. The Deluge Myths also helped ancient peoples to explain the presence of fossils in solid rock found miles from any source of water. We now know that the continents move and that fossils from ancient time periods do not reflect the present topography of the Earth. Of course, to know all of this, you’d have to pick up a book other than the Bible every once and a while . . . .
V for Vendetta
October 1st, 2009
1:54 pm
WINGRIGHT,
All that proves is the stupidity of a LOT of people.
what's right for kids???
October 1st, 2009
2:00 pm
Next topic, please. The horse is dead.
Tom
October 1st, 2009
2:01 pm
Does the book Palin “wrote” come packaged with the crayons or do you have to buy those separately?
Whaaaaat?
October 1st, 2009
2:10 pm
Good story. The cheerleaders should save the signs for meetings of the Celibacy Club. boots, John & Karen, what are you so angry about?
Whaaaaat?
October 1st, 2009
2:13 pm
I forgot WINRIGHT and monty. Sheesh, take a pill.
Whaaaaat?
October 1st, 2009
2:15 pm
Oh, and Richard. So much to read! Yet so little to learn.
CommonSense
October 1st, 2009
4:09 pm
This country was founded by people escaping religious persecution….so we were founded upon not only freedom *of* religion but also freedom *from* religion…….
Aaron
October 1st, 2009
4:23 pm
No — the word horrified is appropriate. To think that students who live in this community, practice a different religion or no religion at all, “are being subjected” first a “religious rant” for football, and now a “mob crowd” of 500 is horrifying. And especially horrifying since it is “pretty likely” that the “protest and frenzy” is being driven by the adults who should know better. I sure hope the Superintendent isn’t forced out over enforcing the law. “That is what usually happens in towns like this.”
————————————————————————
Wow. First off, the Flying Spaghetti Monster and his Noodly Appendage would not be happy with you. Something about a coffee table, I think. And I am not picking on you, I am picking on your point. Now the people at the football game are a mob? The students are being subjected to religion? I seem to be missing the protest and the frenzy being whipped up by this mob over subjugated children. Are you in that town. Do you have any sort of idea what actually happens “in towns like this”. Instead of hyperbolic rhetoric (I am trying to be the first person on this thread to use big words and still get all my spelling and grammar correct. Small words, too.), call it what it is. Some people on both sides are pissed over something that really doesn’t matter. Who cares? But if you call the people advocating for or agreeing with the cheerleaders a mob in a frenzy, you need to use that same measurement for the comments on the other side, those same comments mentioning ant-sized brains for cheerleaders.
Final point about having the banners outside the stadium – as a former football player, this offends me. It actually tires me out. I would hate to have to run around in the parking lot and jump through some paper, then have to run into the stadium, then play a game. I will get my frenzied mob on this asap.
I think my spelling and grammar is correct. I am a little worried about noodly, though. We will see.
George Carlin
October 1st, 2009
4:30 pm
I’m completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.