Can we close the book on textbooks?
Mift made an interesting comment a few days ago in response to a teacher-suggested blog on classroom technology that schools fail to maintain. (”We’ve got laptops, but no batteries for them.” You can read the blog below.)
Maintaining that technology has improved learning and deserves a real investment by schools, Mift said. “Selective outrage is interesting. Textbook have little impact on student learning but we have parents lined up out the door when we do not supply one to students. We continue to spend millions on these tools.”
I would like to talk about textbooks, which I’ve noticed that my children rely on less and less in their classes. (The exception is my college student, who never seems to find textbooks for less than $100. She says she can’t take advantage of used ones because her professors often assign new books. )
In the early days of technology in schools, the sales people for the computer companies often set the agenda, telling schools what their needs were and racking up big sales in the process. The result was a lot of costly and unnecessary purchases.
Is the same true for textbooks? Does the industry create and control the standards and advise schools on what to buy? With online resources, can’t we get rid of textbooks for the most part?
This is a great blog by Mike Elgan on why we should dump textbooks. Among his comments: “A global recession and educational funding crisis makes the perfect time to wrench our children’s minds away from the textbook industry, the politically correct anti-intellectuals, special interest groups and the bureaucratic mindset that is wrecking education. Let’s burn the textbooks and go electronic.”
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59 comments Add your comment
Seen it all
August 16th, 2009
8:45 pm
Maureen,
Are we talking about public K-12 schools or colleges here? I am not sure if the debate is on whether public schools should eliminate all textbooks or colleges.
ScienceTeacher671
August 16th, 2009
8:55 pm
Electronic would be great if all students had computers, but they don’t.
BABY SAY...
August 16th, 2009
10:35 pm
U KNOT FARE MOREEN….U KNOT TREET E–QUIL. ONLYEST MONSTUR BLOOGUR WIT MINIE NAAMS [SAM PURSUN} GIT TOO BLOGG ON YUR BLOGG. HE BOORIN TWO.
Jeffrey Lenny
August 16th, 2009
10:41 pm
Baby, I love you! You are so right! This blogoholic “BE BURY BORIN.” Yes! I’m speaking “BABY” now!
Ernst Reighstadt
August 16th, 2009
10:45 pm
Yes, burn the books! The Nazis did! No electronic device/cyber digits, etc., can ever re-place the thrill of perusing a bound book. Gutenberg, baby, Gutenberg! Did I spell his name correctly? The printed word is indelible.
DD
August 17th, 2009
12:00 am
As far as college goes… someone should do something! Book prices are out of sight! Someone should be monitoring professors… grading them on the ablity to keep cost low… by using book for mulitple years. Couldn’t updates be posted on the computer… not requiring a new book to be published? Longer use times = lower cost by more used books in the market place. How much has changed in biology 101… chemistry 101… calculus, etc. Students and parents are being ripped off. Do the professors get some kind of kick back from publishers? All should be reported!
Perturbed
August 17th, 2009
5:35 am
We are certainly close to a time when the Kindle could replace books at an equal cost. My class text costs $65. Multiple by 6, that’s $390. Price of a Kindle is similar. Tie together a website like they are in Vail, AZ (http://www.vailsun.com/articles/2008/10/29/news/news06.txt), and teachers create lessons focused on the content, and it’s available beyond the walls of the classroom automatically.
Dan
August 17th, 2009
5:54 am
Going electronic the high school classroom would be great. However, is a state that is willing to cut teacher pay also willing to buy every student a lap top or Kindle- like device. Unlikely.
BABY SAY///
August 17th, 2009
8:02 am
BABY SAY/?..> HE BE BOORIN DIS DAN -DD= &PURTURBD JIM D SCINETEECHER JENY HI SKOOL TEECHR ALLLLLLLLLLLLL BEE DA SAM PURSUN … WEE BEE TARD OF HIM. ALLLL HIM ALLLLLLWAYS ? ??? MOREEN U KNOT BEE FARE !!
Jill
August 17th, 2009
8:07 am
BABY, You took the words right out of my mouth…If it weren’t for this “blogo” trying to dominate this board, I would be tempted to participate more often but every time I see his made-up names and his made-up dialogues with his made-up characters, I just get turned off and move on to the next blog. Right on, BABY! You actually have the guts to tell him that he is boring!
HS Teacher, Too
August 17th, 2009
8:29 am
I have run into this problem recently. With all the budget cuts, there is no money available for photocopying; but there are also not enough books. For a class where much of the work could be assigned on student paper (for example, writing journals), that’s one thing. But for math, where I need to ensure that students all have the same problem set (in other words, they don’t copy down the problems incorrectly) and ample space to work them, I need either books or abundant copying. Of course, that doesn’t mean my math textbooks can’t be on kindle or on the Web. I just need a way to ensure that all my students have access to a book, somehow. I think we’re getting there, but we certainly aren’t there yet.
Jeff
August 17th, 2009
8:30 am
What many of y’all are failing to realize is that with tech such as SmartBoards, a computer at every desk in the classroom is truly unneccessary. All you need is the SmartBoard, a projector, and a computer for the teacher. Student copies notes from the board, no textbook of any form necessary. Teacher can then save the day’s lesson from the Board as a PPT file and make it available via the school’s website for download at home or simply email it directly to parents who request it.
Let’s face it y’all, I know math TEACHERS who won’t read a math textbook, particularly at the HS level and higher! And y’all expect a normal PARENT to be able to read/understand these things?
momtoAlex&Max
August 17th, 2009
9:07 am
DD: they most CERTAINLY get a kick back. Have u not noticed that in college about 99% of the times the textbook used it written BY the proferssor or the department head????
DUH! It’s in their own interest to upgrade it every year, cuz otherwise they wouldn’t get the royalties!
The Eyes of the DeKalb Administration are watching you.
August 17th, 2009
9:39 am
Don’t blog in the classroom — even on your Blackberry. Take care of those children over whom you so digitally fawn and for whom you pretend to care. jim d, HS Teacher, Lisa B, Jeff, Jeny, Mom3Boys, momtoAlex&Max, ScienceTeacher671 (and all of your many, many other “names”): You need to be instructing your students in the classroom, not blogging on the sly. You are being paid in tax dollars. As a DeKalb County citizen, it is my business what you are doing. The eyes of the DeKalb Administration are upon you.
The Eyes of the DeKalb Administration are watching you.
August 17th, 2009
9:41 am
Quit bloggin in the classroom. You’re supposed to be instruting our children.
Phyllis D.
August 17th, 2009
9:43 am
Don’t you mean “instucting”?
The Eyes of the DeKalb Administration are watching you.
August 17th, 2009
9:47 am
O. K. I accidentally mis-spelled a word. I also wrote “bloggin” instead of “blogging.” What’s the big deal? I am parent, not a teacher. I am concerned about my son’s teacher in DeKalb who blogs on this AJC blog all during class. My son and his fellow studendts get a lot of “desk work” (in other words, “busy work”) as he continues to blog. He must think that we are stupid. We have been complaining to the DeKalb Central Office and they assured us that they were going to look into the situation. They better!
Lazy Teacher who assigns "busy work"
August 17th, 2009
10:05 am
To:
The Eyes of the DeKalb Administration are watching you
Bite me!
mdowney
August 17th, 2009
10:12 am
To Eyes: If you look at posting patterns on this blog, you will be reassured that your son’s teacher is not doing so during the day, at least not routinely. The posts are most frequent in the early morning, at lunchtime and then starting at 3 and then between 8:30 and 10:50. I can’t speak to other blogs. Maureen
The Eyes of the DeKalb Administration are watching you.
August 17th, 2009
10:21 am
Maureen: Is “10:05 AM” not during the instruction time? Who else would reaction so crudely as to exclaim “Bite me!”?
Maureen's accountability metric
August 17th, 2009
10:28 am
Maureen,
Two questions. One, did you hear back from Crawford Lewis on the questions you sent him?
And, can you address the question raised Friday in response to the Crosby blog you posted? I think it’s fair to say, most of the other readers who commented on the question agree with your colleague Ken Foskett, that it is a valid and legitimate question to ask.
The Eyes of the DeKalb Administration are watching you.
August 17th, 2009
10:33 am
Well, is the Crawford Lewis Administration going to sit back and allow its teachers to blog all day on their Blackberries during instructional time? Maureen, you are wrong about the pattern. This blogo blogs ALL during the day during instructional time. Sorry about the “reaction” typo. I meant to ask, “Who else would react so crudely as to exclaim ‘Bite me!’?” Now is this the kind of teacher whom we want to teach our children? Bite me? What elevated discourse. And to think that Dr. Trotter gets bans on your blog for telling the truth. Consistency, thou art a jewel! So sad, Maureen. Perhaps you ought to feed “bite me” into the AJC Blog Filter.
mdowney
August 17th, 2009
10:35 am
Dear Eyes and everyone else, Not sure who the posters are, including the author of the “Bite me” comment. I can agree that people ought to be more civil. I took this blog over two weeks ago, and the rancor in the discourse has surprised me at times.
However, I am not sure how anyone can know for sure who is posting when. I checked ISPs for several posting names alleged to be one and the same person and they are different.
But if you know for sure — and I would be interested in knowing how you do — that your son’s teacher is online during class posting to blogs unrelated to the class activity at the time, you have every right to complain, as would my bosses if I was ordering from QVC now instead of working.
momtoAlex&Max
August 17th, 2009
10:41 am
TO THE EYES: I am not a teacher, I am a parent. But thank you so kindly for being SO concerned about your child’s education.
I work from home, so I can blog whenever the h-e-double sticks I want.
Seen it all
August 17th, 2009
10:57 am
That’s the question I had too. How does this PARENT know what her son’s teacher is typing on a computer, when she isn’t there and her son is supposed to be doing his schoolwork? So she can tell what website this teacher is supposedly visiting as well?
For the record- not everybody who visits this blog is a teacher, working in a public school, on a daily basis. Personally I think the “rancor” on this blog is fine. This is one of the cleanest blogs I have visited and I have been visiting Get Schooled on and off for about 4 years now. Spirited debate is good for the soul.
Seen it all
August 17th, 2009
11:06 am
As for textbooks, I am all for them. It isn’t the book that’s the problem. It’s how they are used. Some books are good, some not so good. BUT THAT’S WHAT SUPPLEMENTAL INSTRUCTIONAL MATERIALS ARE FOR!!!!!!!! You know– things like supplemental workbooks (the kind purchased from School Box, Lakeshore, by mail, etc.), projects, labs, technology, group activities, etc.
The students don’t pay for textbooks in public schools. The state does. Now college is different. I have never been fond of textbooks in college. They are ENORMOUSLY expensive and you only get MINIMAL use out of them for the brief three months you are taking the class. After that they are useless. I remember buying countless books during my college career that I didn’t even use at ALL!!!! The professor gave us a syllabus, told us to buy the textbook (that cost $92) and them spent most of his time lecturing. We ended up taking lots of notes and the tests would be based on this and maybe one or two references from the textbook (just to “justify” the need for the textbook). I remember buying two textbooks for a history class and one of the books I never read not one time!!!!!!!
The Eyes of the DeKalb Administration are watching you.
August 17th, 2009
11:10 am
The children watch you blog, so-called “mom” and “Seen it all.” They have me to your desk to ask you questions and they see you blogging. My own son has even seen you use the diffent names. In fact, the children are calling you “Catlady” behind your back. That little Blackberry isn’t fooling anyone but the people at the AJC. But, perhaps they want to be fooled.
mdowney
August 17th, 2009
11:38 am
Dear Eyes, I have talked to our IT people and they say it’s hard to believe that one person is posting from a school classroom by using multiple e-mails and IP addresses to prevent the school network from showing up. They told me it could be done with extraordinary effort, but are not sure why anyone would go through all that effort to post to a blog.
Again, if your child’s teacher is addicted to blogging and ignoring the class to do so, you have every right to demand the principal get involved.
Maureen's accountability metric
August 17th, 2009
11:56 am
Maureen,
Could you give us a time table as to when we might expect an answer to the question raised about you tenure on the editorial board, in regard to the your Friday column on Crosby?
If we are here for debate that might, even in a small way, contribute to the betterment of the education process, it is a fair and legitimate question, as even your own colleague Ken Foskett, indicated in the AJC when he stated he couldn’t find a single editorial, going back to the year 2000, that advocated teachers have more support for their authority in dealing with chronically disruptive students.
Not one editorial in support of that stand.
In close to a decade.
I have asked readers of this blog to post their concerns as to why this isn’t a fair, legitimate question to ask, and to this point no one has laid out a case as to why the question shouldn’t be asked, and more importantly, why the question shouldn’t be answered.
You have, for the most part, invited active participation by previously answering questions on this blog, so I see no reason why this one should be different, except for the fact that it is indeed a tough, hard hitting question.
Still, I think you would agree it has been presented in the most civil of tones; if the newspaper is going to call on teachers to be more accountable, as you have in the past, isn’t it incumbent on you to set the example and by accountable for the stands you have, and more to the point, have not taken?
If this is not a fair, legitimate question, one that is worthy of an answer, then readers, please wade in and discuss!
We are here to engage in constructive debate after all, right?
momtoAlex&Max
August 17th, 2009
11:58 am
Maureen: maybe it would be best to ignore the troll.
Eyes: perhaps if you spent more time in your child’s classroom instead of insulting the people that post here, you might be in a better position to know what’s going on in there.
I AM NOT A TEACHER.
The Eyes of the DeKalb Administration are watching you.
August 17th, 2009
12:24 pm
You’re apparently addicted to blogging. That’s fine, so-called “mom,” but not when it comes to my son being in your class while you are doing it. This is a big game with you, I suppose. Suspenseful. Seeing how you can blog all day and still get paid as a teacher. Creates excitement for you, but not at the espense of my son’s education. Yes, Maureen, it can be done and it is being done. (He doesn’t use the school system’s computer or lap top.) The same person is submitting about 90% of the posts, and this is fine, except when this “anonymous” blogger is supposed to be teaching my son. Oh, and I think I know his modus operandus. He gives the kids great grades for little work. That’s why my son says, “Mom, don’t go to the principal.” He doesn’t want his classmates mad at him. They love getting these high grades that they really didn’t earn. Teachers Blogging in their Classrooms = Grade Inflation.
Lazy Teacher who assigns busy work
August 17th, 2009
12:40 pm
to The Eyes of the DeKalb Administration are watching you.
Dang you busted me!
Forrest Gump
August 17th, 2009
12:58 pm
“I work from home, so I can blog whenever the h-e-double sticks I want.”
h-e-double sticks? What? Are you 7 years old. You just need to SHUT IT!!!
Eyes of Laura Mars
August 17th, 2009
12:58 pm
Im watching all of you!
mdowney
August 17th, 2009
1:03 pm
Folks, Can we stop this now? I think we’ve talked about this issue to the point we’ve driven off anybody who wanted to talk about textbooks.
Thanks, Maureen
momtoAlex&Max
August 17th, 2009
1:25 pm
Forest: yeah, i know I sounded kinda dumb when I said it, but I was afraid of the blog monster eating my comment if I said it out right.
Maureen's accountability metric
August 17th, 2009
1:36 pm
Maureen,
I brought my own question, which has nothing to do with the controversy you just commented on, on to this blog topic, only because it wasn’t addressed when it was originally posed.
Since it’s been posted, I have seen posts that validate the legitimacy of the question, and of course your very own colleague Ken Foskett, has done so as well on ajc.com.
I would not be so persistent if the question had been honestly and forthrightly addressed when it was first posed. You obviously monitor your blog, and thus you do see that there is support for you addressing this issue.
If you aren’t willing to personally hold yourself accountable to the readers who pay your salary, how can you morally and ethically hold teachers accountable to the taxpayers who pay their salary?
Turd Ferguson
August 17th, 2009
2:20 pm
Stop what? I think we are all enjoying ourselves.
Leslie.
August 17th, 2009
2:41 pm
Dearest Maureen, Who wants to talk about textbooks? I was loving this controversy, sis. This is the South, darling. This is what we do down here…fight like the Hatfields and the McCoys. This short feud is much more interesting than textbooks. From being a loyal watcher of the blogs, I have noticed that sometimes feuds break out, and this is the best moments — like “shoots” in professional wrestling matches. I love the shoots in professional wrestling. People love controversies. That’s why your editors pick the juiciest stories for the headlines. That’s why out of the top ten cable shows, professional wrestlling is seven of the ten. I don’t necessarily agree, but, hey, this is reality! Controversy sells. I am in sells. I know. Maureen, let the bloggers be the bloggers…as long as they do not go over the top (and who determines what is over the top?). The bloggers can almost always monitor themselvs. If someone goes over the top, another blogger will call him or her out. It’s sort of like the Roller Derby sport of 30 years ago. Just about anything goes. What was going on today was not “over the top.” You just go on to the next topic, and if the topic has a scintilla of interest, then the bloggers will meet you there, cause a little controversy, resulting in more viewers of the AJC’s digital advertising. It’s all about the money. I’m in sales too, girl. Maureen, I know that this blog thing may be new to you, but, essentially, these are the rules of engagement for good blogs. Let the bloggers be bloggers, and rarely ever censor…unless it is totally tasteless. Never censor because of controversy or because someone’s (especially public official’s and public figure’s) feelings were hurt. No one makes anyone visit the blogs.
Joy in Teaching
August 17th, 2009
2:44 pm
Maureen, welcome to the trolls. Unfortunately, they are an evil that one encounters when one has an online blog.
I think textbooks still have their place. Personally, I enjoy cracking open a new textbook and smelling the pages. I also enjoy thumbing through a well used literature book. I have a few that I’ve collected from 1915, but that’s beside the point.
Technology is good and wonderful, but it is not readily available to all. It is also more expensive than textbooks in k-12 public education. Besides the huge start up funds needed, there is also the maintainance funds needed on whatever device is being used.
For those who say, “all you need is the device and a projector and you are set,” I don’t think you realize how strapped schools are for cash. My projector had a blown bulb last year. When I talked to the media specialist about replacing it, she said, “those things cost at least $400. There is an extra one over in the BOE, but it isn’t available to us.” So I did without, even though I teach a class that doesn’t have a textbook. My particular school has over 60 projectors. Imagine the type of cost the school would have to absorb if just 5 bulbs were blown.
Additionally, kids are kids and do not always respect the property of others. They tear textbooks apart and I’d hate to think what some of them would do to a lap top. Can anyone say “laptop frisbee”?
Larry
August 17th, 2009
2:56 pm
The textbook vs. electronic media arguments are in many ways similar to the printed newspaper vs. web page positions – as at least one reader of this blog is aware.
Yes, electronic media allow for much faster updates, but this is a double edged sword because the same mechanism also aids the propagation of inaccuracies and intentionally misleading information. The same oversight in accuracy and appropriate content must be exercised regardless of the medium.
While it would appear some subjects don’t require frequent updates, recent changes in the number of planets and forms in which matter can exist might make this wishful thinking on my part.
Regardless of the need, student accessibility to information is my primary concern. Not every family has a DSL, let alone a computer. Expecting all students to find public internet access for required work, as Mr. Elgan suggested, isn’t reasonable.
The transition to new, cost effective, technology must be handled carefully, to ensure all students have equal access to required information.
Captain Underpants
August 17th, 2009
3:10 pm
Yes…what the issue with a little constructive arguement. Was this not the way the US Constitution was brillianty crafted.
Lettuce begin anew and argue argue argue.
“Someones trying to control us Lord, Kumbaya
Someones trying to control us Lord, Kumbaya
Someones trying to control us Lord, Kumbaya
Oh Lord, Kumbaya!!!”
Junior
August 17th, 2009
3:24 pm
Hey Dad, it was fun, wasn’t it? Next Wednesday morning (not this week) is the Steel Caged Troll Bowl with the last blogger standing declared the Southern Troll XBar Champion.
No, Maureen, you probably will think that this Troll Bowl will violate certain etiquette. Hey, girl, we dueled down here for years. Code Duello, baby, Code Duello!
About textbooks: They will not be re-placed any time soon. I too like the smell and the photos. There is a certain permanence to them. In my library I have many (10 to 15) which are very vintage, even pre-dating Joy’s 1915 date. The names of the owners were scribbled in them with a most eloquent handwriting. There may come a time when books become obsolete, but not now. Same thing for the paper version of the AJC. I always like going to the driveway to retrieve it and then take my time consuming my many vitamins with green tea, eating my little breakfast, and driving people crazy on the blogs. What a life! Hey, that’s ole Earl of Ft. Lauderdale calling me now. Oh yeah? He says that he loved the little spat this morning on the “Textbook” topic! Great! Now talking about reaching folks…
Someone’s always trying to control us. BABY just called too. He said: “SUMBODIE ALLWAYS TRI ING TOO CUNTROLL US. DAY TRI BUT DAY NOTT BEE SUSSESSFOOL.”
Professor X
August 17th, 2009
3:34 pm
momto Alex…
Can you back up your claim that 99% of classes use the books written by the department chair etc.??? I doubt it very much. Such a misinformed opinion makes it difficult to take your comments seriously…
Booger Bayou
August 17th, 2009
3:39 pm
The textbooks should continue. I certainly enjoyed using inkpen and marker to draw in them during boring lectures.
Ahh the good ole days!!
BABY SAY...
August 17th, 2009
3:53 pm
PROFESER X –YOU WRIT BAD. NOO THREEE QWESTON MARKS. ALEX MOMMMER NO SAY 99%% SHE SAY 90% ADN DIS IS BEEG DIFRENC.. U SOUN LIKE A WRASTLER. GIT YER FACS SRAIT JACK.
momtoAlex&Max
August 17th, 2009
4:25 pm
Professor: I will admit that statement is only backed up by MY personal experience at UGA when I was a student there 10 years ago.
At almost every single one of my classes, the textbook used was written either by the professor teaching the class or the head of that particular department. This was true for all my accounting classes (the department head wrote the books for ALL the accounting classes), my biology classes, several of my finance classes (since I was a finance major I took several of these and almost all the textbooks used were written by the professors), American History, and about half of the introductory Business School classes.
I don’t believe that was the case for any of my math classes or my English classes.
Professor X
August 17th, 2009
5:06 pm
I’m glad you are backing off your ridiculous claim.
Just because a book is written by a department head doesn’t necessarily mean anything particularly wrong. If the book is something that is widely used throughout the country, then, not using it would be a disservice to students, wouldn’t it? You should be thankful that the departments you were associated with were led by well recognized professionals.
momtoAlex&Max
August 17th, 2009
6:30 pm
I am not backing off.
I highly doubt that for 90% of the classes that I took I UGA (of all places) every single book written by the professor was widely used throughout the country.
Everyone knows that in academia is publish or perish. You are the one that’s ridiculous.
momtoAlex&Max
August 17th, 2009
6:31 pm
I’m not backing off. Everyone knows that in college academia is publish or perish.