Is it the big (and most common) lie: “Really, I wasn’t cheating.”
Morning folks,
Last week retired teacher Roberts Bennett sent me a note that I asked him to expand into a column, which he agreed to do and which is in the paper today. Thanks, Bob, for doing that. (Another teacher is working on a piece for me on what the furloughs convey about the value of teachers and someone else is working on suspensions.)
I thought the cheating column was important because Bob talked about reactions to cheating, from parents and administrators. I was surprised to read how many parents maintain their kids don’t cheat as I think it takes a bit of nerve and a lot of denial to believe that your kids, when caught in the act, are being scapegoated by a teacher. I love my four kids, but I bring a healthy skepticism to whatever they tell me.
If you can, read the column and let’s discuss. By the way, the filter ensnared 40 comments over the weekend, all of which I rescued yesterday and all of which are now in place. I will begin to routinely check on weekends at least twice a day to reinstate responses.
Now, let’s talk about cheating. Who does it and who gets away with it because of pushy parents? I still want a pulse of how common you think cheating has become. I am hoping it is not as rampant as it seems.
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21 comments Add your comment
motherjanegoose
August 10th, 2009
10:32 am
I am interested in the topics on this blog.
I cannot stand lying nor cheating. I realize that my children could be susceptible to either. So many parents today go the extra mile to cover things up for their children and pave the road. I am not so sure this is a good idea. When your children lie or cheat to others, this will come back to you.
I have been tough on my children and thus have expected ( sometimes) too much.
I am pleased that my neighbors have recently told me, ” I trust __( my daughter)____ completely to take care of our house/pets while we are on vacation….she is very responsible…” To me, liars and cheats are not typically called responsible.
My son is also well respected in his job and those with whom he works have given him wonderful references. He is well ahead of other 22 year olds as he has had to work his way through school.
I am not sure what state has this curriculum but a teacher ( I worked with at conference) mentioned it to me:
CHARACTER COUNTS
Just an FYI…I do not care where anyone worships but it seems ( to me) that those who do attend church frequently and walk the walk, not just talk the talk….have children that can determine right from wrong. Sometimes we do need to be reminded of the 10 commandments…we may not agree with them but they do tend to assist in getting along with others….IMHO.
I see morals going down the toilet and frankly, I am disturbed. My kids have made mistakes but they know I will not cover for them…
motherjanegoose
August 10th, 2009
10:33 am
WOW…my comment evaporated….
mdowney
August 10th, 2009
11:04 am
Motherjanegoose, I found your comment in our filter. It is now posted. Maureen
Teacher, Too
August 10th, 2009
11:19 am
I had a student who plagiarized an entire research paper. I found the article on the internet, printed it, and hi-lited all the plagiarized parts (essentially, the entire report). This student even copied the part about presenting at the medical conference the year before. The parent, student, administrator, and I met to discuss this. The parent said that if her child said he didn’t plagiarize, then he didn’t. No amount of evidence was going to change this mother’s mind.
I ended up having to allow the student to start over and turn in a research project for a 70 (per my admin). I was furious, as I had clearly stated my expectations. Students were supposed to hand in each part of the project along the way (notecards, outline, rough draft). This student never handed anything in, even though I had published clear due dates.
Students are so used to working “collaboratively” that they think that everything can be “collaborative.” Additionally, they think that cutting and pasting from the internet is perfectly fine, if they change one or two words. I spend a lot of time teaching my students about plagiarism and its consequences.
mdowney
August 10th, 2009
11:31 am
Teacher, Too, What did the administrator say? Was the parent’s contention that her son somehow wrote the exact same piece as someone else?
I don’t think I could keep a civil tongue if I encountered a parent that nutty.
Maureen
motherjanegoose
August 10th, 2009
11:50 am
I know lots of parents who basically do assignments for kids. This is amazing to me…some are even related to me and that makes me crazy!
Next week, I am e-mailing each of my daughter’s teachers ( she is a Senior) with this comment:
I am a writer by profession ( true) but want you to know that the assignments ________ turns in will be her own work and not something I had a hand in. You will be seeing what SHE has learned.
Maybe nothing for the AP Calculus teacher…I would FAIL that class!
My daughter ( and son) usually go crazy with group projects as they have ofter done the work for the entire group. I am all about peer learning but some kids will never do their part…this prevailed when I was in HS over 30 years ago.
Teacher, Too
August 10th, 2009
12:34 pm
My admin at the time said that I had to give the student an opportunity to redo the research project.
The parent just repeated the same line: If my son said that he didn’t copy it, then he didn’t copy. It didn’t matter that I had the actual article– the parent refused to hold her child accountable.
I was aghast. Even though I clearly stated in class numberous times that students were not to plagiarize, I didn’t have it written in my project guidelines or in my syllabus, so my admin allowed the student to redo the assignment for a 70. I learned my lesson well, and I always put in an academic honesty paragraph in my syllabus and on every project that involves any kind of research and/or writing.
mdowney
August 10th, 2009
1:00 pm
Teacher, Too.
It sounds like teachers need legal reviews of their syllabuses to ensure they have covered all their bases. I think that kid is going to pay a price all his life for his mother’s refusal to let him take the consequences.
Maureen's accountablity metric
August 10th, 2009
1:39 pm
Mr. Bennett’s editorial is long, long overdue. I think it’s fair to say, in the opinion of many, the AJC in general, and the editorial board in particular, has been wholly deficient in addressing the lack of support for the authority of the classroom teacher.
And there is no way to sugarcoat it Maureen, that includes the time you were on the board.
There has been many an editorial about teacher competence. Has the AJC ever written an editorial about administrative competence? Since education claims to be data driven, let’s talk about a piece of data administrators, and for that matter, this newspaper has never addressed. Who, by far, as a group has the lowest GRE scores of any profession? School administrators, even much lower as a whole than school teachers. It some years, it has actually been a full fifty, yes, fifty points lower than school teachers. Yet while I can recall numerous editorials addressing the competence of teachers, I can’t recall one addressing the competence of administrators, or how their actions can hamstring the efforts of even the best teachers.
Too many times our focus is on what the teacher is or isn’t doing, and Mr. Barrett reminds us that it should be on what the teacher is and isn’t being allowed to do by administration.
Maureen, I have to go back to the column where you praised an administrator for being “candid” when he was belittling staff. The AJC claims they want teachers to “raise the bar” but does the AJC do it’s part in advocating they get the administrative support needed to do so? It seems like Mr. Barrett had to do what the AJC has not been willing to do.
Maureen, more than once, you’ve asked teachers to step up their game, regardless of the pressures put on them. But Maureen, I have to ask you point blank. In your roles at the newspaper can you, metaphorically speaking, look teachers in the eye on this blog and tell them, regardless of the pressures put on you and the editorial board, have you yourself done the best you can do to advocate for teachers getting better administrative support for holding students accountable for performance?
Sorry if this puts you a bit on the spot, but this is but a small example of what teachers contend with on a yearly basis. Perhaps in your new role you will be able to address issues like Mr. Barrett raises today, issues that Andre Jackson, to this date, has been wholly unwilling to address.
Dragonlady
August 10th, 2009
1:45 pm
Like Teacher, Too, I have had parents deny, deny, deny that their sons (in these cases–could easily have been daughters) cheated or copied, even when faced with incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. The difference is that in my case, my administrator backed me completely when I insisted on giving a zero for the paper, making the student draw an F for the grading period. Hooray for my principal. All administrators should back their teachers the way mine does.
I give only essay tests, which cuts down on a great deal of cheating, but other teachers tell me they have to watch constantly. So to answer your question, Maureen, most students cheat and often get away with it, sometimes using cell phones (taking pictures of notes at home–this one works for even essay tests).
Any teacher worth his/her salt looks out for cheating constantly.
mdowney
August 10th, 2009
1:56 pm
Dear MAM, I can send you editorials aimed at principals, superintendents of schools and state officials. And, yes, I think everyone should step up their game, including journalists.
You have mentioned the piece I did on the candid superintendent several times. The piece addressed what I still consider a real problem in education — the use of language and eduspeak to rebuff parents, especially parents of special ed students. (By the way, I heard from special ed teachers all around the country about how they cringe when they hear how school officials condescend to parents and are torn between protesting on the parents’ behalf out and keeping their jobs.
I remain concerned about the lack of candor and transparency in education, and in all government in general. The superintendent in question was brought to a rural county as a reformer because the schools had been overrun with nepotism and essentially served as a jobs program for well connected locals. Several generations of families worked in the system.
I still admire his willingness to shake up the status quo. (Of course, he’s long gone.)
Maureen's accountability metric
August 10th, 2009
2:55 pm
Maureen’s accountability metric ticks upward…as a direct result, every effort will be made to not refer to the “candor” column in the future:) I will say, if I had been there, I too would have probably agreed with his candid statements.
But where’s the balance? As far as editorials go, I honestly haven’t seen that many directed toward superintendents and the like, with the possible exception of Clayton. In fact one particular school system has done what many have said to be some apparently shockingly dishonest things, things that didn’t escape the reporters’ notice, but did seem to escape the editorial board’s notice.
Let me give you an analogy to illustrate where I think the AJC could improve. I’m sure the editorial board, if they looked, could have plenty to say about the competence of many of your average foot soldiers in Fallujah, Iraq.
But most of the editorials on the war cast the disapproving eye toward the administrators in Washington, not the foot soldiers in Fallujah. And rightfully so, for they are the source of the dysfunction, not the soldier. In fact you’ll often see references to “supporting the soldier” but not the war, even when they have to take the Lynndie Englands of the army to task.
But the exact opposite dynamic seems to take place concerning the AJC’s stance on education. The blame, and focus it seems, goes toward the foot soldier on the ground, the classroom teacher, and not toward the administrators from Washington on down, that run the systemic dysfunction that teachers must contend with; and then to add insult to injury, get the primary blame when they can’t overcome it.
Case in point are the editorials I have seen on the qualifications, or lack thereof that teachers have, but have never seen the same for administrators, nor have I ever head mention made of the bottom of the barrel performance of administrators as a whole on the GRE, compared to every other profession. Is it not fair to say that we should hold the support network of the teacher every bit as we do the teacher herself? We do so for the soldier, but seemingly not for the teacher.
I’m not sure who does, and who doesn’t influence the editorials Andre Jackson chooses or chooses not to write, and I can’t blame you in your position Maureen, if you choose to take a pass on commenting on it.
But I think readers can safely say, that if Andre Jackson was more in tune to teachers like Roberts Bennett, you might have editorials that reflect a sense of respecting the “foot soldier in the classroom” and more rightly turning the editorial heat up on those who are currently making their jobs difficult, if not impossible.
Is that fair to say Maureen?
catlady
August 10th, 2009
6:33 pm
The most common lie is “I didn’t do ANYTHING.”
parent and teacher
August 10th, 2009
6:55 pm
And yet, if poll students anonymously, more than half will admit to cheating – I guess it must be the neighbor’s kid.
Teacher Too – that mother was nuts. Of course, I’ve had kids argue til they were blue in the face that something WAS their work, when all they had done was push the print button – someone failed to explain to them that that didn’t count.
I was on the flip side of the cheating argument – a HS teacher accused my daughter of plagiarizing a paper because she quoted Aristotle – his reasoning was that HSers don’t quote Aristotle – well, my daughter went on to be an English major with a Latin minor in college – she was more familiar with Aristotle that your average HSer. He was very nice about it once I e-mailed him.
ScienceTeacher671
August 10th, 2009
7:07 pm
Another common lie: “I wasn’t talking! I was just telling him [blah blah blah]!”
Maureen, if you couldn’t keep a civil tongue with a parent that nutty, it’s just as well you aren’t a teacher, because there are plenty of nutty parents (and not a few nutty administrators) out there.
catlady
August 10th, 2009
7:46 pm
About the state of Denial: I had a fifth grader about 14 years ago whose mother came to see me. Said I didn’t “like” her son; wasn’t “fair” to him. I was pretty surprised, although I had held his feet to the fire about lying, misbehavior, etc. Then she told me that his 4th grade teacher was “against” him. And come to think of it, so was Mrs.___ in 3rd grade, and Miss___in second. Couldn’t get a fair shake in k, 1, or pre-k. I said, (Major tongue in cheek), “What awful luck he has had that EVERY teacher has been against him!” Sailed right over her head, and she agreed with me. 4 years later he was at YDC.
Maureen, the teachers on this blog could regale you for HOURS with stories similar to the ones you have seen here.
cricket
August 10th, 2009
11:21 pm
Don’t you love it when the mother says “My child did not (fill in the blank). Then you roll the school bus video and they look like they have seen a ghost yet still deny it.
cricket
August 10th, 2009
11:23 pm
It is an automatic lying response. It seems to run in families.
InAtlanta
August 11th, 2009
7:54 am
THe system under ALvin Wilbanks sets the honest employee up for failure. Six years ago I paid the community school the fee so I could substitute for Gwinnett, they wouldn’t hire me. I have joint degrees, was qualified to teach special ed students, but had a record of complaining to the EEOC about GCPS and problems encountered while working in their tech department for over 12 years. Parents cheat, on the job, they discriminate, they have other employees do their work for them, they lie about their involvement in harassment and threats, they do not help other empmloyees when they are injured on the job, they don’t even report the injury to workers comp. Until people like ALvin are dealt with properly, the kids do not have a chance. Why should they be honest, just to suffer unemployment, pain, and ridicule while the friends of and Wilbanks profit from education?
Lies Abound
August 11th, 2009
9:57 am
Many parents are in a state of denial when it comes to Little Johnny. As a teacher I have had parents complete their student’s work then tell the kid not to tell me. Elementary students are not great at lying. Why can’t a parent understand that after I teach the child for 180 days, I am keenly aware of the student’s academic ability. You don’t go from D to A overnight. When the student get’s in trouble the parent wants the teacher to cling to the better grade. Even if it is the product of cheating… Administrators often make the teacher the villain by making them either allow the student to redo the assignment or give a 70% Many administrators are chicken. They do not want the parent to complain to the district office. In essence they do not want their boss (the superintendent) to get onto them, so in turn they get onto the teacher. EVEN WHEN THE TEACHER IS RIGHT. Sad, but true.
Elizabeth
August 12th, 2009
7:53 am
Lies Abound – I hope you aren’t a teacher because your grammar is atrocious. “Get’s” was, is, and never has been a word, and I believe you are missing some punctuation.