How do you improve a school?

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This question was answered by yesterday’s posts. Stop trying to track all children into college prep. Most kids cannot handle the classes required for a college prep diploma. Even fewer can handle actual college level classes once they graduate….. if they graduate. And… even fewer than that will actually land a job that requires a college education b/c most jobs do not require a college degree.

We are screwing over the kids who desperately need job skills rather than Shakespeare and calculus. We are also screwing over the high ability kids who are desperately trying to learn Shakespeare and calculus but they are having to sit around while the teacher deals with the kids who can’t keep up and don’t even want to be there.

As a result… no one is prepared for college and no one is prepared for a career. But… the educrats feel good because everyone is being treated exactly the same… and that is all that matters.

Education doesn’t matter anymore. I’m just glad I went through school when it did matter.

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Time for my serious response. In situations such as mine, the school’s environment should be looked into if you want the school itself to improve. Teachers are NOT going to perform at their highest level when they are working in a poor environment where there is such great pettiness to deal with, lack of support from adminstration, and just all out foolishness from adults on a daily basis. Schools should be investigated when there is a turnover of 25 or more people every year (been going on here the past 3 yrs I have been here and I’ve been told it had happened at least 2 yrs before I arrived). That speaks a mouthful that you would lose that many teachers EVERY YEAR!!

A happy teacher will go over and beyond to make sure things are done at all times. Even when the students are challenging, when the teacher has been provided with a positive work environment, those obstacles are met with ease.

Bottom line, I don’t care how much staff dev., planning, peer planning/coaching, parental support (which is important), or whatever is in place, if the school’s morale is not where it should be..you can not expect that school to have significant improvements. It would never reach its potential.

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How do you improve a school. Stop pretending. Stop pretending you can improve a school without addressing discipline. But, by and large, we’d rather pretend. And pretend. And pretend.

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But…but…Way Down South, that makes far too much sense! Can’t do that.

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“Charade”: You’re right. It all begins with discipline, but you won’t hear this word even pop in any conversation by policy wonks, legislators, State Board members, or superintendents (especially not from the university professors of education who have their heads so far into the clouds that you cannot see their crania — the plural for cranium, eh?). Therefore, the public schooling process will NOT improve — not until student discipline improves. Establishing student discipline is the “dirty work” for administrators, and hardly any of the new genre of administrators want to do it or even understand its importance. Our so-called “school leaders” of today are trying to explore the high seas of school improvement using flat earth topography. It is really pitiful watching them wring their hands and wondering why the schools do not improve…heck, they think, “We’ve passed good education-legislation, commandeered standardized tests for the children to take and even published the scores in the media, and we have commanded the scores to go up.” And? No improvement emerges. In fact, the reality is this: The Georgia schools today are in worse shape than ever, and it is NOT the fault of the teachers. The Nitwit Educrats and legislators who are making decisions about education in Georgia do not have a clue. It would be like me teaching how computers work or teaching the advance (or lower) stages of Calculus. I wouldn’t have a clue. It is this simple: They do not have a clue, and they certainly haven’t even thought that starting with the establishment of school discipline is the essential prerequisite before anything else can even have a chance of working. I wonder if people like Christopher Columbus had folks to look haplessly at them when they kept saying that the Earth was round. Hey folks: A Round Earth, A Disciplined School. You have to start here. (c) MACE, July 24, 2009.

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Make that “but do not send the message that THERE are no consequences.” Don’t want the grammar police to issue a citation.

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Our school could benefit from becoming 3 charter schools: College Prep with a rigorous curriculum designed for those truly college bound; Technical Prep with an equally rigorous curriculum that melds the academic with the vocational (technical writing/grammar/business communications, technical math/applied physics matched with specific training areas, etc); and (this will get me splattered) Special Needs with a curriculum that addresses life skills and academics tailored to their needs. These students could be carefully matched and placed into vocational areas as well. All three charters would come together in fine arts, physical education, and JROTC. Participation in extra-curricular activities would be more closely monitored for classroom behavior and academic achievement with intervention swift & sure.

Probably would take a lot of work on everyone’s part but by going charter, stronger and clearer disciplinary actions could be implemented and higher expectations put in place. I’d be willing to bet we’d see much improvement throughout each charter school.

Just me thinking with my typing fingers. . .

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Almost 500 comments on teacher furloughs, but at this rate, they’ll be less than fifty on how to improve a school. If teachers don’t stand up for things that are really important, how can they turn around and expect anyone to stand up for them when their pay is taken?

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Seen it all,

“So as it has been said before, it’s the teacher (and principals, etc), not the system.”

If you’re going to claim it’s the teacher, and not the system, you are figuratively slapping in the face every teacher who doesn’t work in a white middle/upper class school and implying that they don’t care about students.

Nothing could be further from the truth. How many truly caring, truly dedicated teachers have left the profession because they said they lacked support from the system? Way, way, too many, and there is plenty of evidence in exit surveys to even debate that fact.

Are you saying that when these teachers leave, it’s because they didn’t care?

If you’ve really seen it all, what about teachers who have been physically assaulted on the job, but the system, not the teacher, the system, violates state law and, in a systematic manner, refuses to hold tribunal hearings? Is that the teacher’s fault? Or is it the teacher’s fault for getting physically assaulted in the first place because they didn’t “care enough” for the students?

No doubt the attitudes you describe in some teachers are in play in some setting. But there is no doubt, none whatsoever, that the system has not supported teachers either in terms of discipline, in terms of giving them autonomy, in terms of job and legal protections against retaliation with PDP’s and the like to even think, much less begin, to give the system a free pass.

Teachers as a whole deserve better, even if some individuals don’t. The students they serve deserve teachers who are treated with respect, given the authority to do their job, and legitimate job protections against abuse by the system. To excuse the education system for what is wrong with the education system is, in a word, inexcusable.

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JIMD…Closing and reopening as schools of choice sounds pretty good. However, that would have its own set of problems. If the school reopens with NO students and accepts on a first come basis, they will reach capacity and then what. The leftovers move on to the next school on their list, and so on . Using the current measurement [overall high test scores] to determine what a GOOD school is, you are still going to get “false positive and false negative” description in the end because its still going to depend on the students in the school.
NOW, if another measurement were used, say a measurement that indicates the progress each student has made in a year of instruction…..A Pretest before instruction and a Posttest after instruction, an entirely different picture would emerge. You may , and in my opinion probably would find, the schools with heavy populations of ESL students would show the most improvement and would be rated a GREAT school with GREAT teachers. PROGRESS depends on where a student is BEFORE instruction and where he is AFTER instruction. Typically, students who start at a lower point have lots of room for improvement and students who start already at a high level have less room to show improvement.

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do the math – I guess if this topic ran for 3 days, it would amass 500 comments as well!

In any event – we could make the schools better if students were appropriately retained when they didn’t meet the qualifications for promotion. By the time we get them in high school, the damage has already been done. Then, the parents, principal, etc. put undo pressure on the teachers to “just give him the 70″. It is ridiculous. Making AYP has created a monster.

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@ Do the Math—-I have been reading this blog since my first year of teaching, the 2004/2005 school year. I stopped commenting regularly, but have peeked back in on occasion in the time since. Same stuff, different day. These topics have been hashed out over and over, but the ones with the most comments deal with some big, local news story. Don’t be offended if I don’t respond to these topics. The past 5 years has shown me that I am better off doing some actual work at my school rather than blogging about it. I do find commenting here a release of stress though, which is why I continue to come back sometimes.

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I apologize if this appears more than once. The site seems to be having problems.

The charter idea that Old School described earlier should be the model for the entire state. Not all children want to go to a four year college. We need to provide them with an education that they are interested in and one that provides them with the skills to enter an entry level job in their chosen career.

School choice is not the answer. Program choice is.

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[...] Continued here: How do you improve a school? | Get Schooled [...]

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Follow around, watch and listen to Dr. Wayne Frazier, the new principal at Glenn Hills High School in Augusta, if you REALLY want to know how to improve a public school. Dr. Frazier (fraziwa@boe.richmond.k12.ga.us) has a history of turning around troubled schools among Richmond County Public Schools.

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Even though I am not against corporal punishment in schools, if that is what you are talking about, no study shows that our kids were smarter when it happened.

One way to fix our school systems is to change the idea of a teacher. Teaching jobs should rank up there with Doctors and Lawyers. They should make the same pay and be required to have the same amount of education. I know that it is not feasible now, with the way we spend our money, but if everything could be reworked it would work. If you knoew you could go to school for 8 years and come out making $75k as a teacher you would do it. And it would weed out those who fall into teaching because there is nothing else.

Also, we should model ourselves after some European countries, which we are starting to do with vouchers. If the government attached an amount of money to a child when he/she was born for educational purposes and schools had to fight over who got the money to teach the child everyone would win. Competition improves the product. Our public school system has no competition, especially for lower or middle class students.

Although you do have bad teachers, just like in every other industry, the system is to blame here. That’s one of the problems with us as Americans. Rather than admit what we tried was wrong and we need to try something else, we always push forward trying to fix the thing that is broken. We cannot admit failure. This is a situation where we need to swallow our pride and admit that the education system we have set up is, in great percentages, a failure. It is important to do so now… Our kids and gradkids educations depend on it, not to mention our fate as a nation.

Example… We spend billions of dollars on the “war on drugs” every year, yet we have made no progress. Doesn’t it seem logical to try something else? Yes… But our government cannot admit that it is a failure.

PS… We’ll leave the “dumbing down of america” for another day.

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The reason you have over 500 posts is because about 50% of them were bashing teachers – and 25% were teachers trying to explain to “tired of whining teachers” how to properly calculate teacher pay. Anytime you give the folks around here a chance to jump on the teacher-bashing bandwagon, they do, and in droves. Race is the only other topic that seems to generate as many comments.

PR is definitely an issue for teachers.

As far as improving schools, my number one suggestion would be to quit trying to be “one sits fits all” – as any one who has gone clothes shopping knows, it’s really “one size fits most, and not that well.”

We need also need to stop trying to be everything to everyone – there are lots of comments on these blogs about how much public education costs have risen while results have not – that’s in large part because we spend so much on items that aren’t technically the “three Rs” – we’ve expanded our mission, and now we are stretched too thin.

LSfromLawrenceville is correct – parent involvement is key, however, so is parent education level. jim d mentioned choice – what he didn’t mention is that studies of choice programs have shown that students who parents elect choice do better whether or not they get into their school of choice – it’s more about parent expectations than the school , it would seem. However, students who had more choice – choice of vocational tracks, in particular – would likely be more successful. Allen is right about more teaching and less testing – ‘data driven instruction” is a nice concept, but we are drowning in data, and it’s costing us. Test effectively, but test less – then work with the data as needed.Smiley and Old School ae correct – we need to “differentiate” (to use an educational buzzword) our programs – we need more HS-to-work programs – not everyone wants or needs a college a diploma – and I recently read and article about how going into debt to get a college diploma is actually setting some students back. Employers want a trained and educated workforce – not every job requires a college diploma, but they all require skills – let’s teach those skills! Gwinnett Educator is correct about work environments – I’ve heard too many horror stories about vindictive administrators making life he!! for teachers – if a school has too much teacher turnover, someone should be asking why? That ties into the numerous comments about discipline – we are doing these kids no favor by not expecting proper behavior for learning. This also ties in slightly with See It All’s comments – challenging schools get lesser quality teachers because they are challenging schools! Turnover is high, so there is constant staff rotation – many who are hired are fresh out of college or alternatively trained – need to get a warm body. They usually transfer out to a better school at the first opportunity. Those that are left can be excellent teachers called to working with tough kids, but unfortunately there are those that aren’t very good, but stay because little is demanded of them. Teachers need to have better training – it’s one of the few jobs where a new hire is given the same responsibilities and is expected to do the same job as a 20 year veteran – can you imagine if we had the training and support similar to medical interns? Other countries give their teachers time to collaborate – can you imagine doing that here? The bashers would complain about that as well.

Off my soapbox – hope this posts!

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Third times a charm? And I know all three will probably show up at some point, so I apologize in advance.

The reason you have over 500 posts is because about 50% of them were bashing teachers – and 25% were teachers trying to explain to “tired of whining teachers” how to properly calculate teacher pay. Anytime you give the folks around here a chance to jump on the teacher-bashing bandwagon, they do, and in droves. Race is the only other topic that seems to generate as many comments.

PR is definitely an issue for teachers.

As far as improving schools, my number one suggestion would be to quit trying to be “one sits fits all” – as any one who has gone clothes shopping knows, it’s really “one size fits most, and not that well.”

We need also need to stop trying to be everything to everyone – there are lots of comments on these blogs about how much public education costs have risen while results have not – that’s in large part because we spend so much on items that aren’t technically the “three Rs” – we’ve expanded our mission, and now we are stretched too thin.

LSfromLawrenceville is correct – parent involvement is key, however, so is parent education level. jim d mentioned choice – what he didn’t mention is that studies of choice programs have shown that students who parents elect choice do better whether or not they get into their school of choice – it’s more about parent expectations than the school , it would seem. However, students who had more choice – choice of vocational tracks, in particular – would likely be more successful. Allen is right about more teaching and less testing – ‘data driven instruction” is a nice concept, but we are drowning in data, and it’s costing us. Test effectively, but test less – then work with the data as needed.Smiley and Old School ae correct – we need to “differentiate” (to use an educational buzzword) our programs – we need more HS-to-work programs – not everyone wants or needs a college a diploma – and I recently read and article about how going into debt to get a college diploma is actually setting some students back. Employers want a trained and educated workforce – not every job requires a college diploma, but they all require skills – let’s teach those skills! Gwinnett Educator is correct about work environments – I’ve heard too many horror stories about vindictive administrators making life he!! for teachers – if a school has too much teacher turnover, someone should be asking why? That ties into the numerous comments about discipline – we are doing these kids no favor by not expecting proper behavior for learning. This also ties in slightly with See It All’s comments – challenging schools get lesser quality teachers because they are challenging schools! Turnover is high, so there is constant staff rotation – many who are hired are fresh out of college or alternatively trained – need to get a warm body. They usually transfer out to a better school at the first opportunity. Those that are left can be excellent teachers called to working with tough kids, but unfortunately there are those that aren’t very good, but stay because little is demanded of them. Teachers need to have better training – it’s one of the few jobs where a new hire is given the same responsibilities and is expected to do the same job as a 20 year veteran – can you imagine if we had the training and support similar to medical interns? Other countries give their teachers time to collaborate – can you imagine doing that here? The bashers would complain about that as well.

Off my soapbox – hope this posts!

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To Do The Math: All three posts look the same. Just kidding. It’s happened with me too a few times. Just try to be patient. Laura is good at fixing the situation when it occurs. Take care, Earl.

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lol – thanks, Earl! From “to do the math”

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You can’t improve a school if your administration is nothing but a bunch back stabbing yellow back cowards who allow certain students and their parents to get away with any and everything. Also make stupid decisions to try and make themselves look good in the process. Fulton County is quickly becoming another Dekalb. Remove the so-called leadership mess and then guest what there is a school.

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I think AJC needs to be thinking about how to improve this blog…

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This is a WOW moment. School systems are political entities. My son graduated in May from Northview High where the median family income is $100 K +. His mom and I both have Master’s degrees +. Beau scored a “5″ on the Advanced Placement BC calculus exam. That’s “first team all-America” status. How can any low-economic-status-single-parent school compete with that? It’s time to get REAL.

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If you look at the elementary schools and middle schools that didn’t make AYP, I bet they didn’t make it because of students with disabilities.

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Accountability is the name of the game in schools these days. In our current climate, like it or not, “accountability” is defined as improving test scores–mainly CRCT, but the focus is shifting to include ITBS.
Administrators are held accountable, teachers are held accountable. What is missing from this picture? Student accountability. The way to hold students accountable is to hold them responsible for their learning (the test scores, if you’re one who holds them in high esteem, will naturally follow suit). Student accountability is linked to parent accountability.
Now, before some of the teacher-hating crowd starts shaking its collective head with thoughts of “here is one more teacher who doesn’t want to take responsibility and do his/her job,” just wait. Learning takes two. As I am sure every teacher has told her class at least once, “I can’t open up your head and pour in the knowledge.” Students are just not held accountable. Those who disrupt the learning of others are given chance after chance to do it over and over again–a discipline issue. Those who don’t meet promotion criteria are sent on to the next grade anyway–often under the pretext of being a “transition” student (let’s face it–”transition” is a joke–they aren’t repeating a grade!) And the few students who are held back just fall back into the same ruts that got them there in the beginning–discipline issues, poor study habits, and/or flat-out refusal to learn. Finally, let’s forget being PC–we cannot hold all students to the same standard. Yes, all students can learn, but not to the same capacity. We can’t expect all students to become excellent dancers, singers, athletes, artists, etc, no matter how much instruction and practice they get. So why do we expect all students to be college prep material? Believe it or not, people can be productive citizens, have successful careers, and be happy people, even if they can’t master algebra or recite Shakespeare!

Furloughing teachers and increasing class sizes is definitely not the way to improve schools, I know that much.

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I would love for scapegoat to walk the walk and go teach in a classroom, but I can’t in good faith, subject students to the sight of scapegoat, balled up in a fetal position under the teacher’s desk in a puddle of urine, sobbing uncontrollably “It really ISN’T the teachers; it really IS the discipline!”

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DISCIPLINE!!! DISCIPLINE!!! DISCIPLINE!!!
I don’t know how many ways to say it, but DISCIPLINE is the logical starting point for improving education.

I am a retired APS teacher who subs now in that system. Let me tell you that working in most schools, even elementary schools, is the most demeaning job. Students will call you anything!!! say ANYTHING to you, disrespect you in the most vile ways. If you say something to them, they will dress you down like a peer one the bully playground. If you get in their way, too many will PUSH YOU OUT THE WAY, physically, so you know how you have to conduct yourself in the classrooms. They are on the cell phones…and texting is worse than talking one the phones any day…THEY WILL NOT…I repeat…THEY WILL NOT DO THE WORK LEFT BY THE TEACHER. They will walk in and out at will, play cards, curse, you name it, it’s a hard job. Even worse, to be a sub and listen to the classes around you where the regular teacher is there.

I am from the old school to a great extent. I sincerely believe that students WILL act, dress, abide by rules and regulations IF IT WERE REQUIRED OF THEM. I know that’s true because the schools that do manage discipline have rules and regulations AND “ENFORCED” CONSEQUENCES if students don’t abide by them, and guess what, the students do what is required of them at those schools. They don’t wear the droopy drawers around their hips because THEY KNOW BETTER and there is not a problem.

Middle schools are the worst. As a sub who is in close touch with many other subs, we know which schools or which classes in a school to avoid like a plague. Discipline is bad at too many schools on the elementary, middle, and high school levels. There are schools that will stay on subfinder like a rock cast in cement.

Start with discipline, and then put the best curriculum possible in place. Support the teachers because MOST OF THEM WORK HARD AND TRY THEIR LIBERAL BEST to educate out children. Too many administrators are caught up in a power play and are more detrimental to the process than you’d know. What educators are taught in training is far removed from what they find in the actual process of educating. Creativity??? It is snuffed out of teachers in lieu of rigid structure according to many administrators who appear to be threatened by the capability of many of their teachers. A bully administrator is the worst thing for a school.

Please don’t misunderstand me, THERE ARE SOME REALLY GOOD AND EFFECTIVE ADMINISTRATORS. The problem is that there are too many that are not. Teachers are treated in such a demeaning manner and disrespected like they are not adults. Conversely, THERE ARE SOME REALLY LOUSY, SCAPE GOATING TEACHERS who have too much busy work. IMO, there is a difference between a teacher and an educator just as there is a difference between a job and a career. A principal why micro-manages his/her teachers is an ineffective administrator.

I’ve said enough, but there are many things that could be done to allow education to be what it should be. Politicians, media, or ANYONE who has no training AND experience in education and education leadership HAS NO PLACE SETTING POLICY OR LAWS REGARDING EDUCATION. That’s like getting your gardener to pull you teeth.

ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS AND “AT NO TIME” SHOULD A PRINCIPAL HAVE ABSOLUTE POWER TO DETERMINE WHETHER A TEACHER IS GOOD OR BAD AND HOLD THE POWER TO GET A TEACHER FIRED. If effectiveness is in question, there should be a process of help and evaluation for the teacher before he or she is fired. TOO MANY PRINCIPALS HAVE A PERSONAL AGENDA WHEN DESTROYING A TEACHER’S CAREER. This is true in any profession, not just teaching.

I’m stopping now and I’m not proofing. Any errors are typos so don’t be too critical if you find some. (Smile)I hope this isn’t a lost post. Don’t blame me if all show up at once, blame the AJC.

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If I may address two concerns in one post, indulge me as I vent about college prep courses for all and the discipline problem in our schools.

My daddy had a saying, “You just can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.” As long as we try to force every child into college prep courses, we will experience failure. My older brother was known for his good looks, not his intellect. He barely made it through elementary school, and my folk’s were simply grateful he made it through. When he entered high school, his counselors took one look at his scores, and placed him in a vocational, building construction program. I have three advanced degrees ( a masters, a specialists, and a doctoral), but my big brother makes more money than I could even dream of making. He is still good looking and less than brilliant (some say he is not quite bright), but he rakes in the money as a carpenter who specializes in inside finishing work.

In California, all students in the eighth grade must take algebra, this include students with cognitive deficits (see link below). We all know, as California goes, so goes the nation. Why are we placing children in algebra when they cannot understand positive and negative numbers, or even count? White upper middle class men have too often dictated policies for all students. It is time for education reform of major proportions. (Before you jump on this, I am a white woman saying this.)

Urban school teachers see a transient student population for just a few hours a day. Minor successes go unnoticed; standardized test scores seem to be the only important data. Moreover, many of the students are lacking sleep and proper nourishment, yet the public school teacher is held accountable for most all failures. One district that enacted measures to rectify the inequalities in the educational system was Wake County, North Carolina: They introduced a policy where no school could have more than 40 percent of its students on free or reduced lunch. This measure forced integration in magnet schools and upper middle class schools. The results have been impressive. Last year, 60.5 percent of low-income students in Wake. County passed the high school End of Course exams, compared to 43 percent of low-income students in a nearby county of a comparable size. The county did not continue this mandate. Why not? If I were king, this mandate would continue with just a small amendment: No school could have more than 33% of students on the free or reduced lunch program. (Anrig, G. (2009). A failed experiment. Christian Century, 126 (2), 20-23.)

To reduce violence in public schools, no longer tie probation, parole, or driver’s license on school attendance. Forcing students to attend school should stop. Instead, students could return to high school, contingent upon good behavior and passing grades, until the student reached the age of 25. Students over the age of 25 who have not earned a high school diploma could attend for free at night. (Some kids take longer to mature.) Furthermore, school attendance should be a privilege, not an assumed right. Students habitually demonstrating inappropriate behavior should lose the privilege to attend classes with their peers. These students could take internet courses at home for a specified period of time, which would be determined by the offense. All students would receive the same punishment for like offenses. Only students who demonstrate appropriate behavior should be allowed to attend classes with their peers.

I agree that the teacher has the ultimate responsibility to motivate the student; however, students must be ready to learn. Making parole, probation, or a driver’s license contingent on school attendance is not the way to motivate learning. Forcing students in courses too advanced for the student is not motivating. Having a student body with more than one-third of the students from low socio-economic backgrounds is not the way to motivate learning. In addition, placing the newly hired teachers with the least experience in the poorest schools is not a way to facilitate learning. So why do we continue practicing these failed initiatives year after year?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/10/MNM811MDBJ.DTL&tsp=1

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Smiling at SCAPEGOAT. Scapegoat, you must be one of those parents with baddies in school. I would just love for you to shadow me just one week and actually witness behavior in a few schools instead of interjecting into a forum that obviously you know nothing about. I guess anonymity has its benefits because no one really can know who you are when making a dumb, uninformed statement.

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COLLEGETEACHER !!!!

On this blog, in school board meetings, at the Ga. DOE, and even to the Sec. of Education who visited here a year or two ago…….Teachers have begged/pleaded/recommended/advocated exactly what what your post pointed out. Teachers have warned/admonished/cautioned in every way possible that IF politicians/educrats/airheads continue to insist that ALL STUDENTS be in college prep classes AND that all students should actually go to college…{.nevermind that many are sitting in Algebra classes yet cannot do long division }.. …DISASTER OF.CATASTROPHIC IS GOING TO BE THE OUTCOME!!! Here on this blog, it’s pretty much preaching to the choir .. Up there, in the Ivory Towers of those who make the decisions…….the pleas and warnings are falling on DEAF
EARS.

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ShoeShee, say something worthwhile. ALL SCHOOLS HAVE TO BE STAFFED. We have to do our best with what we get considering the lack of support in the area of discipline. RESPECT YOURSELF BY NOT WORKING AT THOSE KINDS OF SCHOOLS??? Is that what you said??? I know there are schools that don’t have problems to that extent…right here is metro Atlanta…however, all kids are required to attend school and have to be met by teachers, administrators, and support staff.

This problem has gotten progressively worse over the years and needs to be reigned in. There are great teachers and students in inner city urban areas, but there are kids that make educating all, the good and the bad, extremely difficult, and no, I don’t have a distorted view of the world. “Is” is what “Is” is.

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Recruit and retain highly qualified african american teachers and administrators in schools where the majoirity of students are african american. If you look at the data from underperforminmg schools, you’ll find 95% of the minority population being served by non-minority teachers and administrators. Unfortunately, many of these educators live in different neighborhoods and cultures. So, they rarely interact with minorities outside of the school. Therefore, they lack the level of understanding and compassion needed to work with the students. Expectation are low and there is little tolerance for minor infractions which usually result from having a need that has not been met. Subconciously, many non-minority teachers communicate non-verbal language that says, “I don’t like you” or “you’re inferior” or “I’m better than you.” Children and adults shut down when they are devalued. At the high school level, more energy is spent policing students instead of offering emotional and tutorial support. The presence of competent, kind, and caring teachers out weigh the need for resource/police officers. Hiring highly qualified african american teachers and adninistrators would make a difference.

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Princess Jackson is just another race hustler who thinks that blacks can do no wrong. Hey princess; did you ever read “The Bell Curve?”

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““Is” is what “Is” is.”

I’m not sure what your point is there, but it amazes me that you complain so loudly about how horrible the students are where you teach (”Teaching… is the most demeaning job. Students will call you anything!!! say ANYTHING to you, disrespect you in the most vile ways. If you say something to them, they will dress you down like a peer one the bully playground. If you get in their way, too many will PUSH YOU OUT THE WAY, physically, so you know how you have to conduct yourself in the classrooms. They are on the cell phones…and texting is worse than talking one the phones any day…THEY WILL NOT…I repeat…THEY WILL NOT DO THE WORK LEFT BY THE TEACHER. They will walk in and out at will, play cards, curse, you name it, it’s a hard job. Even worse, to be a sub and listen to the classes around you where the regular teacher is there.”) and then get defensive when someone asks the perfectly logical question, “Why do you continue to subject yourself to that?” There are plenty of good places full of good kids but you sure make it sound like all students are as outrageous as you describe. They aren’t.

Check out the way you post in all caps. You are raging…

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Sammi, I responded to the topic of the forum: How do you improve a school? I realize I am preaching to the choir, but I am hoping a stray congregation member or two might stray by.

GA Educator, obviously students do not respect you, so possibly substitute work is not for you. Kids know who is only teaching/ subbing for the money. With your attitude, you truly need another part-time job. One last piece of advice, ShoeShee is correct; proper forum etiquette states caps are considered screaming. Please do not scream at us.

Princess Jackson, yes, white women are the predominant teachers in all classrooms, and the minority student population is growing.The problem is minority professionals are not going into teaching. I am currently working on a professional analysis of this situation. I predict we must correct this inequality if we expect to reach the growing minority population. If this situation remains, we should expect more problems with our minority youth, a higher minority drop-out rate, and greater discrepancies in scores between minority and white students. This is unacceptable. Although some white women can and do reach the minority student, many white female teachers do not; moreover, you are correct, some are disrespectful, and treat minority students in derogatory fashion. By the way, I am white.

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The sad thing…the people reading and responding are not the ones that need to be…

I am an involved parent. I have been a substitute…the schools with the most success are the ones where the administration values the teachers, listens to both educator and parental input and where parents are INVOLVED. One only gets out of education what one puts in to it. I don’t have any pithy diatribes on how to fix schools but I agree that not all children should be college prep tracked, that discipline with no tolerance and clearly defined consequences is imperative and that the value of education starts at home.

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I’m sure that disciplines are the main issue at some schools, but I can’t imagine disciplines are the issues at schools like Pope and Harrison. I’m sure there are groups at those schools where but for those students who end up going to colleges, I can’t imagine their teachers saying disciplines were their problem. However, many of those students end up in remedial math and English classes. So, it was something other than disciplines that affected those students’ preparedness.

Without diminishing the importance of discipline as a major issue, I would like to suggest that we must also look at other issues, too. If we only focus on disciplines, Scapegoat may end up being correct.

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School is the reflection of the community.

So, improve the community. Ever notice that the public schools situated amongst the expensive houses are rather good?

Scientific method tells us the problem lies not within the schools, but in their surroundings.

The Chick-Fil-A in East Cobb makes a killing, the one in South Cobb – not so much. Nobody goes around saying that Chick-Fil-A is failing because the one is South Cobb doesn’t make any money.

Schools are simply a scapegoat for a society that is (A) too immature to look at itself and (B) too cheap to pay for quality education.

Society gets exactly out of the schools what they put in – always have, always will.

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TW – how much more do you propose we spend on education? Gwinnett Co spends over $8,300 per student, Cobb spends over $8,800 per student, Clayton Co spends $8,100, DeKalb spends over $9,800, Fulton spends over $9,700 Atlanta PS and Decatur City schools each spend over $13,000 per student!

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Here’s an eye-opening essay by a white teacher describing his inner-city, mostly African-American classroom. Read it to find out what it’s really like and then come back with ideas on how to fix it. Teachers, no matter how amazing they might be at teaching, cannot solve these inner-city social issues. There is no way to fix schools without fixing social issues.

http://martynemko.blogspot.com/2009/06/white-teacher-speaks-out-what-is-it.html

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ShoeShee,

I am so disappointed in you. I truly thought from reading your posts that you were above this type of sensationalism.

My response to this outrageously bigoted post is that a racist White woman wrote it, and this validates my postings: Many white women cannot understand the Ebonics, culture, and particular nuances of the Black race. The students this ignorant woman described obviously played up their race to get a rise from her. I have taught in a mostly Black, Metro Atlanta high school for 25 years; some of my classes have no White students. Again, I am a White woman. I have only witnessed the behaviors the woman wrote about when the students hated the teacher, had a substitute teacher, or the teacher aggravated the kids. Black kids are exactly the same as Asian kids, Hispanic kids, and White kids; they all respond to respect. As I said earlier, you must first reach the students before you can teach them. Kids know who looks down their nose on them. Kids know racist teachers. Kids know teachers who are afraid of the kids. Kids say things to embarrass and shock teachers. Kids try teachers. All kids do this.

If a teacher cannot be color blind, he or she needs to get the hell out of the classroom. All kids deserve respect, and that starts with trying to understand the culture of each child. Teachers who say– “Black kids are fat” – needs to sit in Cumberland Mall for one hour then tell me who is fat. I hope to goodness this woman is not teaching any of the students where I teach. If so, I would put her on a PDP, and get her fired. Her post is inexcusable.

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College Teacher, I thought you taught college. What’s up with the misrepresentation?

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I teach both high school and college. CollegeTeacher was about the only choice of names I could come up with. High School teacher was taken, Teacher was taken, etc. I have taught at Kennesaw, West Georgia, and GSU. At the present time, I am working for Walden University part-time, and am a full time high school teacher and supervisor. In addition, I conduct research and write for education journals. Satisfied?

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I am saying when teachers obviously dislike students, the kids react negatively. This is true of all people. When a salesperson is nasty to me, I react negatively. Teachers who give respect to students, are treated in kind. So, if that means it is the fault of the teacher when students act out, yes, in some cases it is. Note, I said in some cases. There are times when students act inappropriately, and it is absolutely no fault of the teacher.

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Well college educator it begs the question, just how much nicer would teachers be if, when they were cursed, when they were verbally abused, or physically assaulted, they knew, without a shadow of a doubt, the offending student would be removed from the learning environment, so the teacher could do what she was hired to do, which is teach?

And, how helpful might it be to students, as far as emotionally investing in exploring other ways to express themselves, if students knew, without a shadow of a doubt, there would be real consequences, applied consistently with no excuses, for behavior?

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This is what I said in another post:

To reduce violence in public schools, no longer tie probation, parole, or driver’s license on school attendance. Forcing students to attend school should stop. Instead, students could return to high school, contingent upon good behavior and passing grades, until the student reached the age of 25. Furthermore, school attendance should be a privilege, not an assumed right. Students habitually demonstrating inappropriate behavior should lose the privilege to attend classes with their peers. These students could take internet courses at home for a specified period of time, which would be determined by the offense. Internet courses are currently available. All students would receive the same punishment for like offenses. Only students who demonstrate appropriate behavior should be allowed to attend classes with their peers.

Yes, there is a major problem with discipline in our schools, especially schools with a poor socio-economic population. Administrators do not dispense discipline fairly and in a timely manner. Teachers have no control over this. Students do come to school strung out on drugs and out of control. Teaching is not for sissies. I have enough common sense to leave a kid alone who is obviously out of control. I stand back and call for campus police. I do not engage these kids – Black, White, or Hispanic.

And, Shoe Shee, I do work my butt off.

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ShoeShee,
Your 2:22 post was beautiful. You are once again held in my high esteem. Poor minority kids do not automatically trust or respect anyone, much less a white teacher. We have to bide our time, and hope our reputation spreads to the new kids quickly. We are usually tested a time or two to see if we are racist, then slowly, ever so slowly, these kids do come around. If you doubt me, read about Ron Clark. He is doing amazing things with poor minority kids. Marva Collins is my other heroine. I realize she is Black,but her methods worked for this White teacher. These kids can be reached.

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CollegeTeacher @ 12:52 pm, thank you for speaking (writing) to the humanity of children, with so-called “race” not withstanding.

Several months ago, maybe a year now, I happened by chance to be in the presence of an Atlanta Public Schools student when I overheard him speak of himself as “a rising urban school student.” Puzzled (frustracted, actually), I engaged the kid.

“Excuse me,” I said. “May I ask you a question?”

“Sure,” he said.

Do you think of yourself mostly as…
a. an urban person
b. an African American person
c. a human being

Sadly, c wasn’t the kid’s choice.

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Lee,
What is your occupation?

You are picking apart my statements. I do not blame white teachers for anything ; I am a white teacher.

I do think you are ignorant if you believe IQ is predicated on race. I have black students who could beat your pants off in any IQ test you pick. Go visit Ron Clark’s Academy in Atlanta, then pop off.

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