How do you know if a school is good?
On Tuesday the state released which Georgia public schools met the adequate yearly progress testing goals required under the federal No Child Left Behind Act.
A few weeks before that came the release of how elementary and middle schools performed on the state’s CRCT exams.
State and national leaders say both sets of results can be used to measure a school. But on the blog we’ve found too many problems with AYP and CRCT.
Many say the standards are too low. Others say too many people cheat. Some say administrators have figured out ways around the rules to make their schools look better than they really are.
If that’s the case, how do we know if a school is any good?
I know some parents go by what they feel. If teachers and the principal seem nice, it’s a good school. If they return phone calls, it’s a good school. If their child gets A’s, it’s a good school.
Of course, we know kids can get high marks and not have a good grasp of basic skills.
Some like using ITBS scores, SAT scores or graduation rates. Even then, what do you compare your school to?
Gwinnett leaders tout that the district average is routinely higher than the state average. Does that say much?
Atlanta school leaders say the district excels when compared to other urban systems.
But one Atlanta parent I spoke with recently doesn’t buy it. She said, “that’s like comparing yourself to the other dummies in the classroom.”
How do you determine if a school is any good?
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66 comments Add your comment
where is jim d?
July 17th, 2009
3:26 pm
scienceTeacher671
no please don’t upset jim d’s belief in “student good school bad.” I’d hat to see him have a hissy fit on line!
where is jim d?
July 17th, 2009
3:27 pm
“hate” for you net nazis
jim d
July 17th, 2009
3:38 pm
671,
TRUE DAT!!
On the other hand it would be nice to eliminate some of the finger pointing. All I’m saying is that by emphasizing the parents role of choice, the burden is soley theirs, eliminating finger pointing from that direction. Their children would get the education that they chose for them. Nothing more–Nothing less.
N Ga Teacher
July 18th, 2009
12:43 am
A “good” school is one that best helps your child develop intellectually, physically and characterwise. To be “good” a school must have a safe, disciplined environment. It must have an administration that treats faculty as fellow professionals, not as lackeys. It must have community support. However, the truth is that no matter how fine the facilities, the teaching, or the administration, if the parents don’t instill respect for others, a love of reading, and a good work ethic, the success of the students and the reputation of the school will suffer will suffer.
Dr. Craig Spinks /Evans
July 18th, 2009
1:34 am
jim d., my e-mail address is craigspinks@aol.com.
Lee
July 18th, 2009
10:53 am
Several years ago, when we were contemplating sending the youngest to private school, we visited her prospective school for a tour.
We arrived about the same time as class change, and what we observed was something that you will not see in the vast majority of public middle schools. That is, the students were walking down the halls in an organized manner. There was CONVERSATION, but not the screaming, loud, boisterous talk that is typical of public schools.
As we were leaving that building to go to the lunch room, one of the students held the door open for us. “Thank you” I said. “You’re welcome sir” was the response.
“I like this place” said my wife.
Lunch room was the same story. There was conversation, typical of what you would hear in, say, a nice restaurant.
What we didn’t see at that school was a police car sitting out front, graffiti, and the general bedlam that we were accustomed to.
Where do I sign up and who do I write the check out to?
We enrolled my daughter in that school and it has been money well spent.
Ron R. C. Lewis
July 18th, 2009
7:33 pm
where os jimmy d today?
Kim->CommunityRadar.com
July 18th, 2009
9:48 pm
I think some may have jumped into answers before really thinking about the question.
“How do you determine if a school is any good?”
Good for what? I think most of us assume we’re talking about purely academic performance in terms of college prep. That may not be #1 for all of us (Vocational, ESL, and other special situations may be more applicable).
If prep is your concern, then go talk to college recruiters at Agnes Scott, GSU, GT, UGA, Emory, Mercer, Morehouse, etc. and ask about the performance of your HS’ grads during the past 2-4 years.
And, yes, I think demographics. Smart parents are making sure their kids are in schools with diverse student bodies to prepare them to succeed in our increasingly diverse American society.
If you’re just shopping for “brand,” talk to realtors about the schools you are considering – they know the market reputation and perceptions of others.
jim d
July 19th, 2009
7:08 am
Mr. Lewis,
We should all take a break once in awhile to sit around the pool with a cold beverage and listen to some good tunes.
jim d
July 19th, 2009
7:15 am
Yo Doc.,
check your email
Courtney
July 19th, 2009
1:01 pm
School Choice is a FAILED idea. This is a FACT! The sun is orange, the sky is blue and School Choice is a FAILURE everywhere implemented. Next Theory please.
The way you tell a good school from a bad one is teacher/turnover ratio. If teachers stay then it is a good sign. If they stay 3 years and then bolt for the door then this is a bad sign.
Channey
July 19th, 2009
4:38 pm
I think that criterion referenced tests like the CRCT are a good measure of how a school is performing. However, it is important to look at lag scores, that is last year’s 3rd grade performance to this year’s 4th grade performance. You would need to consider the school’s mobility rate to determine just how accurate the measure is to indicate that learning is occurring. That is an example of hard data to determine if a school is a good school or not. Also, there are soft data elements that should be considered also. Such as, professionalism (office staff, answering telephone, returning calls, etc.), environment (discipline, attitudes-teachers, students, staff), and resources (technology, books, activities, etc). I could go on and on, but these are a few things to consider.
Terry Young
July 19th, 2009
8:11 pm
How good are your children? Do they follow directions or do they talk back and disrespect both the teacher and themselves? Do they want to learn or do they love to disrupt the classroom? Do they dress appropriately for their age group or do they dress like mini adults or prison inmates? Do they complete their assignments and share what they learned with their parents and family or do they constantly have incomplete assignments and tasks. Do they realize the importance of an education or do they think of school as someplace you have to go to because their parents said they must attend ? If these questions were asked and answered maybe the schools would do a better job.
LM
July 20th, 2009
10:54 am
Lee hit the nail on the head – see what the halls are like during class changes, and try to catch lunchtime in the cafeteria. If either one is zoo-like, the school probably has some issues.
donnether
July 25th, 2009
5:57 am
The way you know is by the principal and asst. principal. If there is constant problems at a school and the only solution is to do nothing then it is quite clear you are at a terrible place labled a school. If problems persist for years and then dump in the only teachers lap who showed real progress last year in IRR there is a big problem. I guess this is the only way the principal at the place I am {can’t call it a school} can get rid of me is by this act to give a reason to get rid of me knowing this flock of students who were allowed to play and never had any real consequences last year know nothing this year but how to curse, bully, and fight. Is there any school in GA with a honest principal, PERIOD?
KimWhit
July 26th, 2009
7:48 pm
Our solution was to get our child into a top K-12 private school in the metro Atlanta area. We don’t have to worry about experiencing varying qualities of elementary, middlem, and high school. We all know that you may be zoned for a great elementary school but the other zoned schools leave little to be desired. I am a professional, middle class African American woman. I am a product of public schools, my dad is a retired chemistry teacher and my mother a retired librarian.