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	<title>Comments on: How can Georgia improve middle schools?</title>
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	<description>Your source for information and conversation about education in Atlanta, Georgia and the nation.</description>
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		<title>By: Amazed</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/07/02/how-can-georgia-improve-middle-schools/comment-page-2/#comment-3876</link>
		<dc:creator>Amazed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 04:56:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=686#comment-3876</guid>
		<description>Just an obervation, We need more teachers like you.  My dad taught both in public and private for 38 years and could see how things were changing towards the end of his career.  It truly broke his heart to see parents not caring and also parents questioning everytime he gave a student a grade they truly deserved.  He was from the era when teachers could discipline and were respected for doing so.  He says he couldn&#039;t do it today with the &quot;No child left behind act&quot;.  He said he couldn&#039;t and wouldn&#039;t pass a student if they didn&#039;t deserve the grade.  It is happening everyday. Yes, Education has gotten too touchy feely.  Let the teachers teach.  It is what your children are really going to school for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just an obervation, We need more teachers like you.  My dad taught both in public and private for 38 years and could see how things were changing towards the end of his career.  It truly broke his heart to see parents not caring and also parents questioning everytime he gave a student a grade they truly deserved.  He was from the era when teachers could discipline and were respected for doing so.  He says he couldn&#8217;t do it today with the &#8220;No child left behind act&#8221;.  He said he couldn&#8217;t and wouldn&#8217;t pass a student if they didn&#8217;t deserve the grade.  It is happening everyday. Yes, Education has gotten too touchy feely.  Let the teachers teach.  It is what your children are really going to school for.</p>
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		<title>By: Just an observation</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/07/02/how-can-georgia-improve-middle-schools/comment-page-2/#comment-3823</link>
		<dc:creator>Just an observation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 12:09:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=686#comment-3823</guid>
		<description>Education has gotten too touchy feely- I remember a time when teachers were allowed to be straight up and we dared not challenge them.  It was not induced by fear, but respect.  We have been deprefessionalized.  Consider this when you look at the varous teacher preparation programs for those with jobs in other areas.  While I am sure there are those who are dedicated, there is a message implied that anyone can do this- when everyone cannot do it successfully.  I am sometimes dissapointed that I even received my undergraduate degree in education.  If I knew then what I know now, I would have stayed in my Finance program, and fell back on teaching.  Everyone else does it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Education has gotten too touchy feely- I remember a time when teachers were allowed to be straight up and we dared not challenge them.  It was not induced by fear, but respect.  We have been deprefessionalized.  Consider this when you look at the varous teacher preparation programs for those with jobs in other areas.  While I am sure there are those who are dedicated, there is a message implied that anyone can do this- when everyone cannot do it successfully.  I am sometimes dissapointed that I even received my undergraduate degree in education.  If I knew then what I know now, I would have stayed in my Finance program, and fell back on teaching.  Everyone else does it.</p>
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		<title>By: Amazed</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/07/02/how-can-georgia-improve-middle-schools/comment-page-2/#comment-3773</link>
		<dc:creator>Amazed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=686#comment-3773</guid>
		<description>Funny how parents make excuses for Georgia public education.  They are willing to spend money on expensive houses, expensive cars, expensive vacations, clothing etc. but then say &quot;we can&#039;t afford private school for our child&quot;.  Georgia public school standards are the same for all Georgia public schools no matter which Georgia public school your child attend.  Amazed when I hear how children are making straight A&#039;s at these public schools.  Georgia is one of the lowest ranked states academically, I would hope that Susie is making all A&#039;s. Remember what she is being compared to.  Teachers feels as if they need to drop poor grades and give make up test.  Did these students really deserve all A&#039;s.  Most of them bomb out the first semester of college for not having proper study skills.  Sorry, but I hear this all of the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny how parents make excuses for Georgia public education.  They are willing to spend money on expensive houses, expensive cars, expensive vacations, clothing etc. but then say &#8220;we can&#8217;t afford private school for our child&#8221;.  Georgia public school standards are the same for all Georgia public schools no matter which Georgia public school your child attend.  Amazed when I hear how children are making straight A&#8217;s at these public schools.  Georgia is one of the lowest ranked states academically, I would hope that Susie is making all A&#8217;s. Remember what she is being compared to.  Teachers feels as if they need to drop poor grades and give make up test.  Did these students really deserve all A&#8217;s.  Most of them bomb out the first semester of college for not having proper study skills.  Sorry, but I hear this all of the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Amazed</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/07/02/how-can-georgia-improve-middle-schools/comment-page-2/#comment-3772</link>
		<dc:creator>Amazed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=686#comment-3772</guid>
		<description>Stop blaming teachers they only are allowed to teach what Georgia Board of Education gives them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stop blaming teachers they only are allowed to teach what Georgia Board of Education gives them.</p>
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		<title>By: Food for thought</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/07/02/how-can-georgia-improve-middle-schools/comment-page-2/#comment-3730</link>
		<dc:creator>Food for thought</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=686#comment-3730</guid>
		<description>Steve Peha - I&#039;ll give you SOME poor teaching as a cause of social promotion - everyone knows that more challenging (code for higher poverty and transiency) schools get the newbie teachers (who bail at the first opportunity) or have the ones that hang around because not much is asked of them (largely due to non-involved parents).  That is certainly a factor.  

However, parents and students have to take some responsibility for student learning.  I have seen parents who don&#039;t wake their kids up to get them to school on time or just let them stay home - or keep them home to help with younger children and/or jobs.  Absent kids aren&#039;t going to learn what they miss well on their own.  I&#039;ve seen kids who have extreme circumstances during the school year (family illness and death, usually - sometimes divorce) get promoted because their poor performance was due to circumstances beyond their control, and everyone feels sorry for them.

You have those transient kids who are shuffled from school to school, not really learning anything (and grades are a poor indicator because new kids often get a pass on assignments when they first arrive) get socially promoted because no one&#039;s really sure what their skill set consists of (plus they&#039;re usually gone before the next school year starts).  To me, based solely on my own empirical evidence, the largest root cause of social promotion is transiency, at least in the metro area.  I realize there are different forces at work in the rural areas where kids don&#039;t move as much.

I agree with your assertion about literacy - if the kids can&#039;t learn to read by 3rd, how are we ever going to expect them to read to learn after that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve Peha &#8211; I&#8217;ll give you SOME poor teaching as a cause of social promotion &#8211; everyone knows that more challenging (code for higher poverty and transiency) schools get the newbie teachers (who bail at the first opportunity) or have the ones that hang around because not much is asked of them (largely due to non-involved parents).  That is certainly a factor.  </p>
<p>However, parents and students have to take some responsibility for student learning.  I have seen parents who don&#8217;t wake their kids up to get them to school on time or just let them stay home &#8211; or keep them home to help with younger children and/or jobs.  Absent kids aren&#8217;t going to learn what they miss well on their own.  I&#8217;ve seen kids who have extreme circumstances during the school year (family illness and death, usually &#8211; sometimes divorce) get promoted because their poor performance was due to circumstances beyond their control, and everyone feels sorry for them.</p>
<p>You have those transient kids who are shuffled from school to school, not really learning anything (and grades are a poor indicator because new kids often get a pass on assignments when they first arrive) get socially promoted because no one&#8217;s really sure what their skill set consists of (plus they&#8217;re usually gone before the next school year starts).  To me, based solely on my own empirical evidence, the largest root cause of social promotion is transiency, at least in the metro area.  I realize there are different forces at work in the rural areas where kids don&#8217;t move as much.</p>
<p>I agree with your assertion about literacy &#8211; if the kids can&#8217;t learn to read by 3rd, how are we ever going to expect them to read to learn after that?</p>
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		<title>By: ScienceTeacher671</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/07/02/how-can-georgia-improve-middle-schools/comment-page-2/#comment-3718</link>
		<dc:creator>ScienceTeacher671</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 04:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=686#comment-3718</guid>
		<description>Steve, I&#039;d say it&#039;s not necessarily all poor teaching, but it IS lack of remediation for students who obviously need additional help.

Maybe you&#039;ll get to do a couple of &#039;silver bullet&#039; workshops for some school system that isn&#039;t meeting AYP though.  It&#039;s a lot cheaper to convince everyone that a little more work by teachers would eliminate the need for remediation and special help for struggling students.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s not necessarily all poor teaching, but it IS lack of remediation for students who obviously need additional help.</p>
<p>Maybe you&#8217;ll get to do a couple of &#8217;silver bullet&#8217; workshops for some school system that isn&#8217;t meeting AYP though.  It&#8217;s a lot cheaper to convince everyone that a little more work by teachers would eliminate the need for remediation and special help for struggling students.</p>
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		<title>By: Nikole</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/07/02/how-can-georgia-improve-middle-schools/comment-page-2/#comment-3712</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=686#comment-3712</guid>
		<description>@ Steve Peha----You are so right about early literacy learning.  I have been screaming for years at my school that much more attention should be paid to interventions aimed at 1st grade, and they would not see as many problems later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Steve Peha&#8212;-You are so right about early literacy learning.  I have been screaming for years at my school that much more attention should be paid to interventions aimed at 1st grade, and they would not see as many problems later.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Peha</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/07/02/how-can-georgia-improve-middle-schools/comment-page-2/#comment-3693</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Peha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=686#comment-3693</guid>
		<description>A SOLUTION FOR SOCIAL PROMOTION

Clearly, the practice of social promotion causes many problems. Whether it’s an officially sanctioned process, or one that teachers have merely become accustomed to, social promotion undermines student achievement and teacher morale.

But now let’s look at the situation from where a principal or superintendent might sit. What would happen if we instantly combined high expectations and more rigorous curriculum with accurate grading in low-achieving schools? Over 3-5 year’s time we’d see over-crowded elementary schools and near-empty high schools. Logistically, this is a non-starter. Hence, the culture of social promotion has a practical, albeit pernicious, aspect.

Now, logistical reasons are no excuse for such a heinous practice. But this conundrum does bring to mind a very serious and important issue: we can’t structure out way out of reform. Testing, standards, charters, vouchers, and merit pay are all structural reforms. But school, being the slippery beast that it is, defies restructuring.

Our only hope is to teach our way out.

This is why I find it so fascinating that so few people want to talk about changing teaching. They want to talk about changing tests, changing standards, changing charters, changing unions, changing pay, but they rarely want to talk about the only change that might actually make a difference.

Social promotion is unethical but it arises out of the need for survival. This doesn’t make it OK but it does give us a sense of the magnitude of the problem. It also tells us that social promotion doesn’t exist in isolation. And lets not forget that social promotion exists on a smaller scale in virtually every school in our country – or at least I can say that it has been a part of the “playbook” of each and every one of the 200+ schools I’ve worked with over the last 15 years. How else does one explain the number of high school students who are three, four, or even five years behind?

Smaller and wealthier school districts hide their socially promoted kids by skimming them off into special programs. But in many of our urban schools, the majority of kids fit the description of those who are so far behind that the correlation between their grade level and the number of years they’ve spent in school is meaningless. As such, special programs are also meaningless.

So what’s the answer? Again, it’s teaching. But we can be even more thoughtful than that. If we acknowledge that literacy is the foundation of academic success, and if we acknowledge the brain window for language learning, and if we acknowledge the traditions of elementary school teaching and the natural separation of instructional styles that seems to occur after 3rd grade, we can make simple plans for solid interventions early enough in kids’ lives that strategies like social promotion would be unnecessary.

There are two key places to intervene in a young student’s learning life: at the beginning of 1st grade and at the end of 3rd. It is perfectly reasonable to get kids extra help in the first half of first grade if they are not yet reading and writing independently. And it is perfectly reasonable to retain less successful 3rd graders for an additional year if they have not yet become confident chapter book readers and conventional writers of multi-paragraph essays.

At the same time, we can do several things that make intervention and retention much less likely. First of all, we could concentrate professional development in literacy at the primary grades. Bringing teachers of young children up to speed with the latest and best methods like Reader’s and Writer’s Workshop would improve outcomes tremendously. Second, we can move our most successful teachers to first and third grade. And finally, we can employ the use of high quality early interventions like Reading Recovery for kids who are struggling out of the gate.

The root cause of social promotion is not poor kids, it’s poor teaching. Until we recognize the connection here and actually do something about it, schools with many under-performing children have no logistically sound approach but to pass kids along year after year. This reality does not excuse what is surely a detestable behavior but seeing it for what it is and why it exists should heighten for all of us the importance of making sure our teaching – especially in literacy at the early grades – needs a serious overhaul.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A SOLUTION FOR SOCIAL PROMOTION</p>
<p>Clearly, the practice of social promotion causes many problems. Whether it’s an officially sanctioned process, or one that teachers have merely become accustomed to, social promotion undermines student achievement and teacher morale.</p>
<p>But now let’s look at the situation from where a principal or superintendent might sit. What would happen if we instantly combined high expectations and more rigorous curriculum with accurate grading in low-achieving schools? Over 3-5 year’s time we’d see over-crowded elementary schools and near-empty high schools. Logistically, this is a non-starter. Hence, the culture of social promotion has a practical, albeit pernicious, aspect.</p>
<p>Now, logistical reasons are no excuse for such a heinous practice. But this conundrum does bring to mind a very serious and important issue: we can’t structure out way out of reform. Testing, standards, charters, vouchers, and merit pay are all structural reforms. But school, being the slippery beast that it is, defies restructuring.</p>
<p>Our only hope is to teach our way out.</p>
<p>This is why I find it so fascinating that so few people want to talk about changing teaching. They want to talk about changing tests, changing standards, changing charters, changing unions, changing pay, but they rarely want to talk about the only change that might actually make a difference.</p>
<p>Social promotion is unethical but it arises out of the need for survival. This doesn’t make it OK but it does give us a sense of the magnitude of the problem. It also tells us that social promotion doesn’t exist in isolation. And lets not forget that social promotion exists on a smaller scale in virtually every school in our country – or at least I can say that it has been a part of the “playbook” of each and every one of the 200+ schools I’ve worked with over the last 15 years. How else does one explain the number of high school students who are three, four, or even five years behind?</p>
<p>Smaller and wealthier school districts hide their socially promoted kids by skimming them off into special programs. But in many of our urban schools, the majority of kids fit the description of those who are so far behind that the correlation between their grade level and the number of years they’ve spent in school is meaningless. As such, special programs are also meaningless.</p>
<p>So what’s the answer? Again, it’s teaching. But we can be even more thoughtful than that. If we acknowledge that literacy is the foundation of academic success, and if we acknowledge the brain window for language learning, and if we acknowledge the traditions of elementary school teaching and the natural separation of instructional styles that seems to occur after 3rd grade, we can make simple plans for solid interventions early enough in kids’ lives that strategies like social promotion would be unnecessary.</p>
<p>There are two key places to intervene in a young student’s learning life: at the beginning of 1st grade and at the end of 3rd. It is perfectly reasonable to get kids extra help in the first half of first grade if they are not yet reading and writing independently. And it is perfectly reasonable to retain less successful 3rd graders for an additional year if they have not yet become confident chapter book readers and conventional writers of multi-paragraph essays.</p>
<p>At the same time, we can do several things that make intervention and retention much less likely. First of all, we could concentrate professional development in literacy at the primary grades. Bringing teachers of young children up to speed with the latest and best methods like Reader’s and Writer’s Workshop would improve outcomes tremendously. Second, we can move our most successful teachers to first and third grade. And finally, we can employ the use of high quality early interventions like Reading Recovery for kids who are struggling out of the gate.</p>
<p>The root cause of social promotion is not poor kids, it’s poor teaching. Until we recognize the connection here and actually do something about it, schools with many under-performing children have no logistically sound approach but to pass kids along year after year. This reality does not excuse what is surely a detestable behavior but seeing it for what it is and why it exists should heighten for all of us the importance of making sure our teaching – especially in literacy at the early grades – needs a serious overhaul.</p>
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		<title>By: Nikole</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/07/02/how-can-georgia-improve-middle-schools/comment-page-2/#comment-3683</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=686#comment-3683</guid>
		<description>1) Even when the teachers had compliant, obedient students, they still seemed to have problems teaching the students.
2) Even when teachers had small class sizes, they still seemed to have problems teaching the students.
3) Even when teachers had administrative support, they still seemed to have problems teaching the students.
4) Even when teachers had an abundance of materials and resources at their disposal, they still seemed to have problems teaching the students.
5) Even when the teachers had “supportive parents”, they seemed to have problems teaching the students. 

@ seen it all----If none of these were issues for teachers, it would be much easier to hold them accountable.  If I didn&#039;t have any of these problems, it would be easy for me to then pinpoint exactly what I might be doing wrong.  I will definitely read the book you suggested, but don&#039;t discredit these issue as not being important.  I hold myself accountable and I am VERY reflective about my teaching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) Even when the teachers had compliant, obedient students, they still seemed to have problems teaching the students.<br />
2) Even when teachers had small class sizes, they still seemed to have problems teaching the students.<br />
3) Even when teachers had administrative support, they still seemed to have problems teaching the students.<br />
4) Even when teachers had an abundance of materials and resources at their disposal, they still seemed to have problems teaching the students.<br />
5) Even when the teachers had “supportive parents”, they seemed to have problems teaching the students. </p>
<p>@ seen it all&#8212;-If none of these were issues for teachers, it would be much easier to hold them accountable.  If I didn&#8217;t have any of these problems, it would be easy for me to then pinpoint exactly what I might be doing wrong.  I will definitely read the book you suggested, but don&#8217;t discredit these issue as not being important.  I hold myself accountable and I am VERY reflective about my teaching.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa B.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/07/02/how-can-georgia-improve-middle-schools/comment-page-2/#comment-3675</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 21:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=686#comment-3675</guid>
		<description>I agree with much of Steve&#039;s 11:20 post.  Many great observations were by previous posters as well.  One big problem I see is that education is not always valued at home.  Some of my students tell me that it does not matter to their parents what sorts of grades they bring home, or whether they pass or fail.  That attitude shows in parent meetings. Unfortunately, not all members of our community buy in to the importance of education and send their kids to school just to avoid harrassment from attendance officers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with much of Steve&#8217;s 11:20 post.  Many great observations were by previous posters as well.  One big problem I see is that education is not always valued at home.  Some of my students tell me that it does not matter to their parents what sorts of grades they bring home, or whether they pass or fail.  That attitude shows in parent meetings. Unfortunately, not all members of our community buy in to the importance of education and send their kids to school just to avoid harrassment from attendance officers.</p>
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