Crime and punishment class for Georgia students?
Georgia PTA leaders are planning to lobby the state to create a public school class that would teach students about state laws to prevent teens with disciplinary problems from getting criminal records.
The class, which would be taught in middle and high schools, would explain how teens can be charged and punished for crimes involving alcohol, sex, drugs and violent acts.
The class also would explain students’ legal rights involving police searches and being questioned by the police.
The course would include much of the material found in “Ignorance Is No Defense: A Teenager’s Guide to Georgia Law,” written by former DeKalb District Attorney J. Tom Morgan.
What do you think of this class? While this may be important information for students to know, is it a school’s job to teach it?
NOTE: Staff writer Nancy Badertscher is writing a story on teachers and paraprofessionals who are losing their jobs because of budget cuts. If you fit in that category, please contact her at nbadertscher@ajc.com. Thank you for your help.
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125 comments Add your comment
Meme
May 6th, 2009
9:05 am
Just something else that the parents should be teaching.
Gwinnett Educator
May 6th, 2009
9:13 am
No it isn’t. Also, I think that this class is a WASTE of money and resources. Have a great day all of you!
William Casey
May 6th, 2009
9:13 am
What class will be removed to make room for this worthy class? My son does not need it.
Reality
May 6th, 2009
9:47 am
Horrible, horrible idea. GA students need to focus on the basics. They already cannot read or do basic math by the time they are in high school. Now, they want to teach them law instead? In what alternate reality does this make any sense at all?
jim d
May 6th, 2009
10:04 am
Unlike other posters I have no problem with this, matter of fact since schools fail to teach about our constitutional rights i think its a great idea to explain students rights. And yes folks they really do have rights.
DB
May 6th, 2009
10:06 am
Not required. Stay out of trouble, and you’ll never need to worry about it. If you need someone to explain the law to you, then hire a lawyer like everyone else in the world.
Life is pretty basic. Don’t use drugs, they are illegal. Don’t drink under the age of 21. Observe the driving rules (you have to show that you read them in order to get your license, so ignorance is no excuse.) Go to school, don’t carry a weapon to school, and don’t have sex before you are old enough to be financially, emotionally and physically responsible, on your own, for any consequences.
It’s not that hard, folks.
I don’t think it needs to be a class — good lord, that’s hours and hours of law, there. If they want to make it an evening presentation available to kids who are interested, with a Q&A session afterwards, then have at it. I just can’t imagine it taking up a semester’s worth of material. And for what? Material that doesn’t apply to them when they turn 18, anyway?
jim d
May 6th, 2009
10:07 am
Mr. Casey,
I truly hope your son never needs to exercise his rights but understanding them surely wouldn’t hurt.
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 6th, 2009
10:10 am
I think it is a good idea. A class could be taught right before a holiday or one of the school year breaks since not much goes on then any way. Yes, it is the parents responsibility…but reality check…how many teen hang on every parents word. Our taxes pay for the schools so yeah…why not assist the parents…what happen to “it takes a whole village”…yes, parent are the final responsibility but the school should help educate about laws.
jim d
May 6th, 2009
10:10 am
DB,
You left out don’t get hit by someone and don’t see anything happening around you.
jim d
May 6th, 2009
10:12 am
I’ll bet most the folks who object to this class –also favor mandatory parenting classes for students. Or at least for the ones that get prego.
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 6th, 2009
10:19 am
Education also includes life…it’s not all books. Ditto jim d…”don’t see anything happening around you” wouldn’t that be a nice dream…and everyone gets along and we all have cotton candy…right!…and it’ll probably snow today. Kids need to be prepared…education helps to prepares them.
HS Teacher, Too
May 6th, 2009
10:21 am
I agree with Jim D, believe it or not … especially with the changing technology and the fact that our laws don’t yet match the technology. But do I think this ought to be a separate class? Maybe not; why not roll it into a mandatory civics/social studies/etc. class that is already required and theoretically already should cover such material? I don’t/didn’t teach those subjects and I am sure their curricula are already overloaded, but if we can’t make a new class we ought to put the material where it makes the most sense, right?
Joyce
May 6th, 2009
10:26 am
A whole class? No. An assembly period or an optional evening presentation? Yes. I would have my son participate, even though he didn’t have any discipline problems. ALL students need to be familiar with this information!
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 6th, 2009
10:33 am
Joyce, my child doesn’t have discipline problems either…but an assembly?? Have you been to a middle school or high school assembly…no, something this important needs to be in smaller groups instead of the entire student body at one time. I agree a whole class isn’t necessarily the answer. Optional evening presentation…I’ve been no one hardly shows up. Do mini classes during CRCT week or other testing throughout the year…there’s plenty of “down” time the could be utilized.
HS Teacher, Too
May 6th, 2009
10:42 am
(Once again, my attempted post is lost… forgive me if at some later point it shows back up and this is redundant.)
I have to say that I agree with Jim D. Right now, technology is moving far too quickly for our laws to keep up. Kids don’t understand the permanence of their actions, OR the legal consequences of their actions under the law as it exists today. Take, for example, the idea that “sexting” can be prosecuted as child pornography. For better or for worse, to the letter of the law kids need to understand that there can be serious and significant consequences that will be with them for the REST OF THEIR LIVES.
Now, that being said, I am quite certain that putting this “civics” content into a history or other social studies class would burden an already-too-full curriculum. On the other hand, does this material warrant a class of its own? Probably not.
So, here is my suggested solution: create a NEW civics class that teaches MORE than just this aspect of the law. Create a class that teaches the basics about our court system; the difference between civil and criminal courts; the basics of our rights under the federal and state constitutions … you get the idea. In short, take the “civics” out of “history” and create a one-semester civics/government class. Make it a requirement for graduation. What’s wrong with actually educating our populace about how our government works, folks? Shouldn’t that indeed be our responsibility as citizens?
V for Vendetta
May 6th, 2009
10:44 am
I’m torn on this one. I like CVIP’s idea of making such a class optional. Is it the school’s RESPONSIBILITY to teach such a class? NO. Should such information be AVAILABLE to students and/or parents? YES. I think it’s as simple as that. However, politicians, educrats, morons, et al. need to stop telling the school’s what they’re responsible for. Based on the laws they pass, I’m pretty sure they don’t understand the concept of responsibility.
VOICE
May 6th, 2009
10:50 am
Jim d, I must really be losing it! Once again, I agree with you and CVIP. A key objective of the class, which some may have overlooked, is to prevent teens with discipline problems from getting criminal records. If it actually works, it may well be worth the time and money.
Some disregard the fact that we are paying in a number of ways for the crimes committed by these teens who are progressing up the criminal career ladder. Educating them on the front end could prevent much of eventual cost to society. Just consider the average amount spent by the State of Georgia to educate a child as compared to the amount to house a prisoner and/or “supervise” them in the community.
I’d be interested in seeing if the crime rate would be affected by such a class. If it doesn’t work, we can always end it. I thinks it’s worth a try.
jim d
May 6th, 2009
10:57 am
Voice,
Perhaps, then, I should reconsider my position on the issue.
high school teacher
May 6th, 2009
10:58 am
Students NEED to know that if they are 16 or older, they can go to jail for having oral sex with a 15 year old. They need to know that they can have their licenses revoked for too many speeding tickets. They need to know that they can go to jail one day if they don’t pay child support. I think this class is worth the spending it would require.
Please note that only students with discipline problems would be enrolled. Students have electives, and this would be a good one.
As for doing a parent’s job…character education should also be a parent’s job. Feeding a child should also be a parent’s job. But the schools provide both of those services as well.
To be quite honest, I don’t know that all the parents know laws in GA that apply to teens.
By the way, when I was in school we took citizenship and economics in the 9th grade. While econ was over my head, I found citizenship to be enlightening. This type of information would fit well in that class.
high school teacher
May 6th, 2009
11:01 am
AAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH! I am so tired of my comments disappearing!
I feel better now. Perhaps I can remember my post and re-type it in a minute.
high school teacher
May 6th, 2009
11:10 am
Students NEED to know that if they are 16, they can go to jail for having oral sex with a 15 year old (the kids’ version of abstinence) and label them as a sex offender for the rest of their lives. They need to know curfew laws. They need to know what could happen to them if they don’t pay child support. They need to know that getting into a fight could land them a record.
There are lots of things the schools do that should be a parent’s job (feeding the child, character education, etc).
This class was introduced as being for those with discispline problems, so not everyone would take it.
In high school, kids take electives, so this wouldn’t replace an academic class. Get real, people. This class could even be part of a pathway in public safety or law enforcement (The best cops I know are the ones who were troublemakers in school!).
I think that this class could be incorporated into a government class, but that class is typically taught at the senior level. However, I have argued for years that it should be a freshman class for the reasons stated above.
Lisa B.
May 6th, 2009
11:12 am
The standards for 8th grade Georgia Studies include a section on Georgia’s Juvenile Justice system and laws.
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 6th, 2009
11:14 am
Read the HS Teacher, Too comments…”What’s wrong with actually educating our populace about how our government works, folks? Shouldn’t that indeed be our responsibility as citizens?”.
HS Teacher – RIGHT ON!!!! The majority of the teachers DO care. This type of education wouldn’t be just for the kids in trouble but to prevent situations. I’m not dismissing parent’s responsibility (I take mine very seriously)…but I do agree a mandatory semester on current laws that could directly affect the kids (right in their world) would be very beneficial and educational.
Reality
May 6th, 2009
11:24 am
Here is an idea….
Yes, students and parents need to know that information – fine. No, it is not and should not be the responsibility of the SCHOOL!
Why not offer a free class at the local Sheriff’s office on a Saturday? Let a law enforcement officer teach the class since they are the ones ultimately that have to deal with it. This way, it is free, it is available for those that want it, and it does not interfere with the mission of the school to teach content!
Reality2
May 6th, 2009
11:30 am
Nothing wrong with it as an elective course. I just don’t know who will be teaching it. Do we have highly qualified teachers to teach it???
DB
May 6th, 2009
11:32 am
Voice — “A key objective of the class, which some may have overlooked, is to prevent teens with discipline problems from getting criminal records.” Call me hard-nosed, but why should teenagers with severe enough discipline issues avoid the consequences of a criminal record?
I have no problem with education of the populace. I just don’t see why teenagers need a separate class that basically deals with being stupid. We lecture kids about birth control and STDs, but it doesn’t stop teenage pregnancy and regular STD outbreaks in the 22-and-under category. Why do we think that telling someone that sexting is illegal is going to stop some idiot bimbo with no self-respect from sending a picture of her boobs to her boyfriend? They all know about DUI from driving class, but it doesn’t stop them. The entire WORLD knows that underage drinking is against the law — but there are still teenagers who get together every Friday and Saturday night and get drunk. Even if we educated them, the teenage mind being what it is would simply shrug it off and say, “it would never happen to me, I’m too smart to get caught.”
HS Teacher, Too
May 6th, 2009
11:51 am
DB, I agree with you on both counts. I don’t think that it’s appropriate to make this a “here’s how you stay out of jail” class. But, I think that that seed perhaps sprouts a good tree. If we turn it into a modern-day civics class that goes beyond the typical “if you drink and drive and get caught, you go to jail” lecturing that — as you correctly said — doesn’t seem to work so well, I truly believe that there is a need for such a class, and that it could work.
Quite frankly, I am not convinced that high schoolers today GET old-fashioned civics information, despite what any curriculum may say. I can’t count how many times I had students cite to me “their constitutional rights,” and those rights they thought they had existed only in the constitution in their minds. And that’s a terrible travesty; there will always be students who don’t learn, but we at least ought to be TEACHING our students how our government works.
So I suppose I have changed the proposed class to something broader. It would cover our government’s structure; it would cover how the courts work; the differences between criminal and civil cases; how you can’t just “sue” someone but have to have a reason founded in law; how you can’t “always” appeal; and yes, it would also spend some time covering the kinds of offenses that tend to get kids in trouble — but that would not be the point or the entirety of the class. It would essentially be a “law for the high schooler” class that introduces students to more than the three-branches of our government history lesson, but rather to our LEGAL system.
Given my proposed expansion, that’s why I suggest that if the only way to do that is to create a new course, I’m all for it. But again, it should be for all students. It should be a graduation requirement. It certainly shouldn’t be only for kids with disciplinary records.
(On another note, you say that the programs we have in place don’t work but I have to say that, while kids are still kids and have the “it won’t happen to me” attitude, we have no way of knowing how well our programs have worked. Anecdotally, I know that my high schoolers who used to go out and drink also used to designate a driver. THAT is 100% attributable to what we’ve beaten into their brains. Are they still drinking? Sure. Is that still illegal? Sure. But they are, at least, not driving as well. If that’s all I can get, I am quite happy to take it.)
VOICE
May 6th, 2009
12:14 pm
DB, I understand your point. But, my point would become clearer if one of those teens at age 20 had a 9mm stuck in your face. Just maybe, that could be avoided.
jim d
May 6th, 2009
12:15 pm
maybe i missed something , but i’ve yet to see where this class would be required–each schoolm system would have to approve teaching of the curriculum.
high school teacher
May 6th, 2009
12:28 pm
And it wouldn’t interefere with other required courses or the mission to teach school content. Last time I checked, character education wasn’t school content either, but I have to designate in my weekly lesson plans how I incorporate the character ed word of the month.
catlady
May 6th, 2009
12:30 pm
The answer to any question: Let the school do it.
V for Vendetta
May 6th, 2009
12:35 pm
Here’s the vibe I don’t like:
“My goal is to make sure people understand that we can educate a child now or we can repair an adult later,” Cornelius said.”
As DB pointed out, we educate kids on a wide range of topics meant to help keep them out of trouble, but that doesn’t mean that they won’t do anything wrong in the future. Kids are KIDS, and some of them–many times unfortunately–don’t get it through their thick skulls until they’re facing some scary consequences. When I was in college, there were plenty of times when I thought, “I’m good, I haven’t had THAT many.” Then my friend smashed his pickup nearly in half and was facing a whole host of DUI charges. My attitude changed REAL quick, and I still to this day observe a pre-set “limit” whenever I know I’ll be driving.
The biggest problem I have with Cornelius’s quote is the “educate a child now” part. Yes, she’s absolutely right. We CAN educated a child now. In fact, you can start educating your child the minute he or she pops out into the world. My parents were STRICT with a capital B (for BELT), but that didn’t stop this former Gifted student from doing some DUMB stuff.
Tell them not to drink, they’ll still drink.
Tell them not to do “it,” they’ll still do it (A LOT).
Tell them not to hit each other, they’ll still hit each other.
Do I feel bad when little Johnny at my school gets carted off in cuffs because he didn’t know that he could have charges pressed against him for smashing another kids face in? NOPE. Guess what? Sometimes, no matter how unpleasant it is, you just have to face the music. It’s called ACCOUNTABILITY, and I think more than a few of you need to look it up.
jim d
May 6th, 2009
12:50 pm
DB,
So let me get this right–you don’t think students should be informed of their rights? That exercising ones rights under the law may be inconvenient. And if we don’t teach those civics lessons to our youth today we won’t likely be troubled with them exercising them as adults..
Would that about sum it up?
jim d
May 6th, 2009
12:52 pm
Cat,
Civics? Government? Social Studies? isn’t that what the schools should be teaching?
crawdaddy
May 6th, 2009
12:57 pm
I think an updated civics class is the answer, maybe a GA laws section. No need for an extra class. IMO kids already know what most of the laws are anyway. If you know right from wrong, the law is pretty much applicable. The schools should be about the three R’s. Parents need to teach their kids right from wrong. Unfortunately, a lot of parents do not know themselves. On a side note, why does Clayton county have to hire a school superintendent all the way from California? Are no qualified Georgians?
Sarah H
May 6th, 2009
12:59 pm
As jim d says: Civics? Government? Social Studies? We teach all of this. The only thing different would be buying Morgan’s book.
jim d
May 6th, 2009
1:00 pm
If people are to exercise their rights and fulfill their responsibilities as citizens, they must understand those rights and responsibilities. kids should be taught their civic rights and responsibilities so they can become politically involved adults.
Students today aren’t even taught that the Bill of Rights, the model civil liberties document, was the result of a compromise. It was offered to allay fears about the strong central government established under the basic Constitution or that some state ratifying conventions would not have approved the Constitution had they not been promised the Bill of Rights as well.
This is what we are talking about and yes that job DOES belong to the schools.
jim d
May 6th, 2009
1:02 pm
high school teacher,
I feel your pain. This is really starting to suck.
Lee
May 6th, 2009
1:07 pm
Personally, I think every parent should take their soon-to-be-driving-age teenager down to a lawyers office and pay the $100 or so to let them explain their rights, potential pitfalls, and consequences when dealing with law enforcement / justice system.
I’m sorry, I know there are a lot of good law enforcement personnel out there who exhibit common sense and approach their job in a professional manner, but there is ample anecdotal evidence of “good” kids who get railroaded by the system.
As far as schools, I think it would be a worthwhile endeavor for law enforcement personnel / district attorney / judge to come in and give a lecture to the students about the legal justice system, laws, and consequences. Civics class would be an appropriate venue for this lecture. I don’t think it merits a semester long class.
Let’s face it, teenagers think they are ten feet tall and bulletproof. Most have not yet grasped the concept that what they do as a fourteen year old may impact their lives when they are thirty.
….that is, until they are thirty and they wonder where they went wrong…
Parent
May 6th, 2009
1:10 pm
Very important topic on which to educate our students and weave into a curriculum, and not just for the kids getting in trouble. Maybe then, with this generation, we can raise students who are less willing to put knee jerk politics ahead of our youth’s future. If school districts opt to arrest and file juvenile complaints on kids for minor, non violent, non drug/weapon infractions which have already been disciplined inside the school environment (and yes it is done ALL the time), then they should be accountable for teaching those laws. How often are teens getting arrested and/or juvenile complaints filed? – no high school or school district I have ever heard of shares this information in the aggregate – nor are they willing to break it down by offense/race/gender. Teach it as an elective with open enrollment in a broad civics class environment, the consequences are much too serious to leave this one to chance.
luvs2teach
May 6th, 2009
1:14 pm
I love the idea of this class, and as a matter of fact, I suggested this very same book to be taught as part of our 8th grade advisement. The kids don’t know, and while it may be the parents’ responsibility to teach some of this, the fact of the matter is that they don’t know either!
As to the logistics of creating an entirely new class in the midst of our economic crisis being difficult, that may be a problem, but I’m certainly glad this idea is on the table.
high school teacher
May 6th, 2009
1:18 pm
Teenagers think that they are immortal, invincible, and inertile
NMHA
May 6th, 2009
1:19 pm
I have no problem witht this class being offered as an elective-type class, that is mandatory for chronic behavior problem students. Kids that don’t need it, don’t have to take it, or they can if criminal justice is something they may be interested in as a career.
high school teacher
May 6th, 2009
1:19 pm
Make that infertile. Gees, it posts the ones that I don’t want it to post!
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 6th, 2009
1:29 pm
Reality
Free classes at the local Sheriff’s office…yeah right…how many people do actually think will show up for that?
Reality2
Teachers teach civics and current event now…why wouldn’t they be qualified.
DB
I think the key objective of the class would be to educate the teen to prevent problems before they happen. It’s not stupid…they teach sex education to prevent STDs and other situations. I disagree…I think sex education DUI education does help more than not. Don’t lump all the teens into the same group, there are a lot of good kids out there. Also, it’s not just girls sending in appropriate photos via “sexting”…boys send photos of things that should remain in their pants too.
HS Teacher, Too
I agree…some will fall between the cracks…but I believe the majority will benefit. I also agree…It should be a graduation requirement. It certainly shouldn’t be only for kids with disciplinary records. DITTO…I also agree some of the stuff is getting through to them…more kids are having designated drivers or calling their parents.
high school teacher
Excuse me…the last time I checked school and everything else in life has an impact on character!!! Teachers play a vital role.
catlady
What‘a crock…parents should be involved…no one’s suggesting that we drop the kids off at age 5 and pick them up after graduation.
Jim d
YES!!! isn’t that what the schools should be teaching?
Luvs2teach
You’re right…some parents do care…but the just don’t know all the “new laws”.
NMHA
All kids would benefit… “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”
V for Vendetta
May 6th, 2009
1:45 pm
CVIP, you said: “Free classes at the local Sheriff’s office…yeah right…how many people do actually think will show up for that?”
Doesn’t that sum it all up? If you don’t care enough to take your kids to something like that, then why should anyone care? I don’t know about you, but my parents would have been first in line for such a program–no matter where it was offered. I hold the same attitude. If something like that were offered at the police station, I would have my kids down there in a heartbeat. It’s my responsibility to do so, no one else’s. When will people figure that out? This is a matter of individual accountability. If we don’t model it for our kids, how can we expect them to pick it up from someone else?
I find it funny that in such a conservative state as Georgia so many people want the schools to provide all of these services for them. It seems to me that if people in this state were truly conservative then they would be advocates of individuality over the collective.
Stacey
May 6th, 2009
1:51 pm
I agree with those who say that this should be incorporated into an existing civics and/or state government class. A lot of laws are common sense but others aren’t. IMO, it would be beneficial for all students to take such a class. When it comes to the law, what you don’t know can hurt you the most. Heck, I was a criminal justice major 20 years ago but it would benefit me to take such a class now. I can’t recall what they are advertising, but there’s a series of radio commericals that make fun of dumb law (such as in Idaho (or somewhere) it is illegal to fish while sitting on a camel’s back). I feel pretty sure that I don’t have to worry about me nor mine breaking that particular law but there are other laws they might not be aware of.
Elsie
May 6th, 2009
1:51 pm
Make it a mandatory after-school or Saturday session for students with discipline issues- make it part of the discipline “process”.
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 6th, 2009
2:05 pm
V for Vendetta
A lot of schools offer community service forums in the evenings…but no one shows. So do you think sex education and information about drugs should be taken out of the schools too? I’m not giving up my parental rights or responsibilities but additional education that can assist my child in making wise choices can only be beneficial. You can’t live under rock…the issue of society must be deal with. The kids should be well armed with knowledge in all areas so they can make wise decisions.
“individuality over the collective” …we all live in society with one another.
Elsie
Should sex education only be for sexually active kids?
high school teacher
May 6th, 2009
2:16 pm
CVIP,
I don’t disagree. I was merely pointing out that these classes would fall into the same category as character ed.
ICU
May 6th, 2009
2:17 pm
I agree with V. It is not the government’s responsibility. They do only a sub-par job in our public (government) schools with the basics. How did it come about that people think the government is the answer to all our needs?(oh yeah, last November). Take individual responsibility people!!! If you feel that your child is in need of such state law information, then you and your child should research, and study it together, but that would take effort and individual accountability.
Northern Visitor
May 6th, 2009
2:36 pm
Shouldn’t you slack-jawed yokels teach your brood how to read and write first? No wonder Georgia is dead last in education. I will be so glad when this business trip is over.
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 6th, 2009
2:40 pm
ICU
Your right it’s not the government’s responsibility…so why are we paying taxes for public schools? Sex education, drug prevention, home economics, are just a few of the things then that should be taken out of the schools…are you saying all these things should be taught only at home too? Nice world but unfortunately not reality. Kids are faced with a lot of issues and having reinforcements in place is a good idea. My child doesn’t need the “law” training…but you know what…it could hurt any of them to be better informed. I take my responsibilities very serious and do discuss these type issues but I also embrace the reinforcement. Individual accountability, I agree kids need to learn and know that they will be held accountable if they make the wrong choices. I do agree with one thing…we did lose back in November. Right now we, as parents and teachers, do have the opportunity to make a difference in the lives of these kids…but some day that may not be the case.
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 6th, 2009
2:41 pm
Northern Visitor
)
Well…in the south…we also teach manners.
Elsie
May 6th, 2009
2:48 pm
CVIP:
Sorry! In my attempt to be concise, I left a wrong impression. No, I don’t think that sex ed should be limited to sexually active kids (although one could argue that this would already include most of them). Sex ed is already pretty well-established as part of the health/PE curriculum, and here in Arizona is written into the standards as such (haven’t checked the GA standards for sex ed).
What I was trying to address was the issue of “what class do we replace?”. The suggestion had been made previously that perhaps this type of information could be targeted to students who were on a dangerous path with discipline issues already. My suggestion was a response to this idea of “let’s get this information to at least the ones with an imminent need”.
Incidentally, I do like the idea of incorporating more government-type information and making this a semester-long course, but realistically I don’t know if you could make it a mandatory credit. I think it’s a great concept, though- this would be a very relevant, hands-on sort of course, which can be hard to design at the high school level.
VOICE
May 6th, 2009
2:49 pm
Northern Visitor, UHHH, that hurt! But, maybe we can teach them to read and write while helping to avert a criminal career. Hope your trip here goes well. Y’all come back now, hear!
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 6th, 2009
2:59 pm
Elsie
I agree…I to like the idea of incorporating more government-type information and making this a semester-long course, it would be nice if it could be a mandatory class. I’d like to see some of the issues brought to the middle school level too…since this age group seems to be coming more active in things like texting. As the article states “Students ages 13 to 16 can be prosecuted as adults for the “seven deadly sins,” including murder.”
ICU
May 6th, 2009
3:04 pm
Northern Visitor
We will also be so glad when your business trip is over. Maybe if you had been better educated, you would not need to travel to Georgia to help you keep your job.
DB
May 6th, 2009
3:10 pm
CVIP: I am NOT lumping all kids in the same group, since it has been my experience that most kids are generally pretty good kids. However, I am simply observing that those who DO need it are probably the very ones that wouldn’t pay much attention even if it were offered in school. The ones that pay attention are the ones that probably aren’t going to be needing it.
Lee, yeah, there are the cases where good kids get “railroaded” — but do you really think that anything that a 15 year old learns in a civics class is going to be helpful to them at 1 am at night when faced with a pissed-off cop, or when contraband is found in their locker at school? Probably not . . .
Lee
May 6th, 2009
3:14 pm
“Personally, I think every parent should take their soon-to-be-driving-age teenager down to a lawyers office and pay the $100 or so to let them explain their rights, potential pitfalls, and consequences when dealing with law enforcement / justice system.”
For the record, if you have a student who is planning to attend UGA, this might be sage advice. I think Athens, Ga has more lawyers per capita than any city in the state – and there is a reason for that. Clarke County / Athens uses the UGA student as their cash cow.
motherjanegoose
May 6th, 2009
3:18 pm
northern visitor…we hear this all the time from $%^& yankees…and I was born one (Chicago)….
please check out greatschools.com to see if your school rates a 10…the public school my children attend here in Gwinnett County GA does….they must be doing SOMETHING right and yes there are negative issues too. Let us know if all schools in the great north score a 10.
Also, please check out our state universities and the percentage of applicants that actually get in….what kinds of SAT/ACT scores has to be acquired to make it in ( this really compares apples to apples as it seems to be an across the board test) …it is a good start…
I am fixin” to drink some sweet tea and enjoy the fact that I have lived in GA almost 20 years!
This is my own personal test;
you know your state is great if
a) folks move there when they retire
b) folks go there on vacation
some states do not qualify for either and GA may just make it on both
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 6th, 2009
3:28 pm
ICU
) enough said!!! 
)
Lee
)
Good idea and good advice.
motherjanegoose
AMEN!!!!! Poor me up a glass of that sweet tea!!!
ICU
May 6th, 2009
3:38 pm
By the way, Ga. is not dead last, AZ is. We are #41 overall, not too good, but we have Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois very close on the list to keep us company. Learn facts first before you mouth off.
Northern Visitor
May 6th, 2009
3:48 pm
ICU
I am a vice-president for sales of a Fortune 500 company. My job doesn’t require me to come here but I like to take a junket every now and then to see if I can pick up any new ideas from my people in the field. Sad to say the 12 branches we have in Georgia, especially Atlanta, are under performing. Guess who’s job(s) will be on the line. The economy is too fragile to be carrying around dead weight. Maybe the people we let go can find employment at one of the numerous chicken plants that you find here. By the way what do you do for a living?
high school teacher
May 6th, 2009
3:56 pm
Northern Visitor,
That should be, “Guess whose job,” not “Guess who’s job.” Some of us down here in the under-performing state do know the rules of grammar.
ICU
May 6th, 2009
4:26 pm
NV. To answer your question. M.D., however I can’t help you. I can not correct anal cranial inversion. You were most likely born with it and will have to live with it the rest of your life.
Granny
May 6th, 2009
4:27 pm
Nothern Visitor – If the south is so dumb – why do you have to junket down here for ideas.
Lee
May 6th, 2009
4:34 pm
“If the south is so dumb – why do you have to junket down here for ideas.”
ROFLMAO
More sage advice – don’t mess with Granny…
Northern Visitor
May 6th, 2009
4:54 pm
high school teacher
If “Some of us down here in the under-performing state do know the rules of grammar” why the dismal state of education in Georgia? I appreciate the wise-cracks though. You people have made the hard decisions that I am about to make very easy for me.
Tony
May 6th, 2009
5:04 pm
Our high school students need a course like this and it should be for everyone. I think our government course should provide more emphasis upon understanding the rights granted to citizens under the constitution. I also think that we should all be gravely concerned about the erosion of our own rights through the last few decades. We are becoming complacent about our own self-sufficiency and the rights that our forefathers died for. We are becoming more dependent upon the government to “take care” of us and unconcerned that our rights to free speech are becoming limited.
Yes, students should know more about their own rights. I have seen local police departments bully teenagers through random enforcement of obscure laws. Lee makes this point well. Most teens don’t know their rights and we should be teaching them. We should be teaching them the importance of self-responsibility, as well. Rights and responsibilities go hand in hand.
high school teacher
May 6th, 2009
5:13 pm
Northern Visitor,
Why do you think that the state of education in Georgia is more dismal than anywhere else? Perhaps our failures are more publicized than failures up North, unless “you guys” don’t have any failures…
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 6th, 2009
5:16 pm
Northern Visitor
Since you’re not “required” to be here…go home! People in “your field”…VP in a Fortune 500…are you trying to impress us or yourself…I guess really doesn’t matter what others think of you…you already think so highly of yourself. “Chicken plants”…after your grammar lesson maybe…just maybe you could get a job in one.
As for your reply to the high school teacher concerning your “hard decisions”…if you’re not doing so…maybe you should book a private plane back north…with your big head there will be limited seating on the plane…give me a break.
ICU
I think your diagnoses is correct
Lee & Granny
)
Go Granny!
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 6th, 2009
5:20 pm
Tony
DITTO!!! Rights and responsibilities do go hand in hand.
motherjanegoose
May 6th, 2009
5:39 pm
northern visitor, while I would not be at all thrilled if my children ended up at a chicken plant….SOMEONE has to do it.
If you are going to make cracks against those employees, please DO NOT eat at our Chik Fil A, which originated in the dismal state of Georgia. I have seen it multiply across the country and obviously someone in corporate must know something as those folks are typically not Yankees!
My own northern brother in law asked me years ago, “why do folks in our ( Yankee) state fly you in to train our teachers and pay your expenses….do we not have anyone here who could share what you know…” Hello, I have been to their state and the neighboring state several times this year….perhaps I do know SOMETHING ( besides how to make a good pitcher of sweet tea….LOL). I am so versatile that I can still grill some mean fajitas, from living in south Texas!!!!
Years ago, it really irked me that the New Englanders made fun of the dumb midwesterners who obviously did not vote for their candidate. Well folks….why not step out of your office and hop on a combine for a month to see about harvesting or wrestling with cattle. You may think you are smarter than midwesterners but those dumb farmers are needed to produce the food that Fortune 500 vice presidents and their families eat each week. My hat is off to them and I love a good steak with fresh corn and tomatoes!
ScienceTeacher671
May 6th, 2009
5:41 pm
I like the idea of incorporating these lessons into an existing civics or government class, but I don’t think the students will believe the information if it’s taught in school.
I think they’ll file it in the same compartment as information such as “if you fail the CRCT, you can’t pass.”
ScienceTeacher671
May 6th, 2009
5:42 pm
Maybe I should say, “If you fail the CRCT, you can’t be promoted,” just to be a bit more clear…
APalli
May 6th, 2009
7:05 pm
I just got home from school. I spend a few minutes every night when I get home reading the AJC. The highlight for today has been the comments from the Northern visitor who claims to be a vice-president for sales of a Fortune 500 company. He likes to come to Georgia to see if he can pick up any new ideas from the people in the field. With all of his posts from the middle of the day, I assume he has a lot of free time. Having all of that free time to post blogs on the AJC may be an indication that he is the dead weight.
Evil Old English Teacher
May 6th, 2009
7:19 pm
You know, yesterday’s senior prank is today’s felony conviction.
It is a different world for students today then when I went to school (back when it was one-room school house with a REAL chalk board–thank Heavens). Typing a little sultry note and sending a nasty picture on a cell phone can get a kid a life-long sex offender status.
Oh, and pardon me, but since when did teens have ANY idea what “law” and “consequence” mean without testing the limits? That’s why such a class is so very necessary. Consequence now is much bigger than a paddle and an angry Da. Now–it means life-long legal implications. Shouldn’t your children know that? If so, isn’t it your school’s job to teach it?
robyn
May 6th, 2009
8:22 pm
Georgia struggles in meeting the No Child Left Behind standards. Test scores are low and many students drop out. Instead of focusing on crime and law maybe the focus should be on the basics, keeping kids in school to earn a diploma. Then we wouldn’t have as many kids in trouble with the law.
catlady
May 6th, 2009
8:30 pm
CVIP, you are not a teacher, are you? If you were, you would ask what else will be put on your plate to teach/oversee/supervise, etc. You see, nothing comes off the list of things the school HAS to do. It only Piles Higher and Deeper. (I have a PhD so I can say this with a straight face.) And we do it with more supervisors and consultants, but fewer teachers where the rubber hits the road.
Could this be a part of our already GPS-full civics classes? Sure. Write some GPSs for it. Employ some pencil-necks to write and revise ad naseum the EOCT for it.
Someone please tell me what ISN’T the schools’ responsibility?
motherjanegoose
May 6th, 2009
8:42 pm
catlady…I once heard this called A CONSTIPATED CURRICULUM…things get added in but nothing gets let out…enjoy! Do you want some sweet tea….LOL.
ScienceTeacher671
May 6th, 2009
9:19 pm
Catlady, we don’t have to feed them supper or give them a bed, and we don’t get to claim them on our income taxes. Other than that….???
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 6th, 2009
9:24 pm
ScienceTeacher671
WOW! You are a disappointment…I hope you’re not teaching my child. You don’t think the kids believe the information if it’s taught in school…you are really short changing yourself and all the other teachers.
APalli
Nice call…
Evil Old English Teacher
We need more teachers like you…it’s obvious you care.
Robyn
I agree…the focus should be keeping them in school…but they also need to know that there are consequences for their actions that they may sometimes see as harmless…i.e., sexting.
Catlady
Contra I know all about higher and deeper…and doing more with less…I’ve worked for the Army and supported young soldiers for 30 years…and instead of complaining about the shortages and complications…we ask what more can we do for our young soldiers and their young families. I see them come and go without a clue in some cases as to the harm they can cause by a harmless prank or gesture. In many cases they come to the Army as a last resort in their own lives and to find a place to belong. Some come for an education and skills. Yes, a lot come to service but others come to find a home or escape going to prison. Yes, there are a lot of great young people that join the Army and the other military services…but there are also a lot troubled kids who were just a step away from real trouble. Maybe if someone had cared enough to teach them that their actions have consequences, they could make more informed decisions.
My comments about the military are not meant to down play or degrade the soldiers…I’m only saying that kids need direction! Not just from parents but from every teacher, preacher or neighbor they come into contact with…you never know when you might just say or do something that will make a real difference. Kids need to be educated. Thank God there are some really AWESOME teachers out there!
Catlady, you sound very bitter…why are you teaching? Maybe the Evil Old English Teacher should mentor to you and remind you why respectful teachers chose the teaching profession.
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 7th, 2009
6:49 am
ScienceTeacher671
WOW! You are a disappointment…I hope you’re not teaching my child. You don’t think the kids believe the information if it’s taught in school…you are really short changing yourself and all the other teachers.
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 7th, 2009
6:50 am
APalli
Nice call…
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 7th, 2009
6:50 am
Evil Old English Teacher
We need more teachers like you…it’s obvious you care.
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 7th, 2009
6:50 am
Robyn
I agree…the focus should be keeping them in school…but they also need to know that there are consequences for their actions that they may sometimes see as harmless…i.e., sexting.
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 7th, 2009
6:51 am
Catlady
Contra I know all about higher and deeper…and doing more with less…I’ve worked for the Army and supported young soldiers for 30 years…and instead of complaining about the shortages and complications…we ask what more can we do for our young soldiers and their young families. I see them come and go without a clue in some cases as to the harm they can cause by a harmless prank or gesture. In many cases they come to the Army as a last resort in their own lives and to find a place to belong. Some come for an education and skills. Yes, a lot come to service but others come to find a home or escape going to prison. Yes, there are a lot of great young people that join the Army and the other military services…but there are also a lot troubled kids who were just a step away from real trouble. Maybe if someone had cared enough to teach them that their actions have consequences, they could make more informed decisions.
My comments about the military are not meant to down play or degrade the soldiers…I’m only saying that kids need direction! Not just from parents but from every teacher, preacher or neighbor they come into contact with…you never know when you might just say or do something that will make a real difference. Kids need to be educated. Thank God there are some really AWESOME teachers out there!
Catlady, you sound very bitter…why are you teaching? Maybe the Evil Old English Teacher should mentor to you and remind you why respectful teachers chose the teaching profession.
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 7th, 2009
6:57 am
Catlady
Contra I know all about higher and deeper…and doing more with less…I’ve worked for the Army and supported young soldiers for 30 years…and instead of complaining about the shortages and complications…we ask what more can we do for our young soldiers and their young families. I see them come and go without a clue in some cases as to the harm they can cause by a harmless prank or gesture. In many cases they come to the Army as a last resort in their own lives and to find a place to belong. Some come for an education and skills. Yes, a lot come to service but others come to find a home or escape going to prison. Yes, there are a lot of great young people that join the Army and the other military services…but there are also a lot troubled kids who were just a step away from real trouble. Maybe if someone had cared enough to teach them that their actions have consequences, they could make more informed decisions.
My comments about the military are not meant to down play or degrade the soldiers…I’m only saying that kids need direction! Not just from parents but from every teacher, preacher or neighbor they come into contact with…you never know when you might just say or do something that will make a real difference. Kids need to be educated. Thank God there are some really AWESOME teachers out there!
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 7th, 2009
6:57 am
Catlady, you sound very bitter…why are you teaching? Maybe the Evil Old English Teacher should mentor to you and remind you why respectful teachers chose the teaching profession.
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 7th, 2009
7:57 am
Catlady
You sound very bitter…why are you teaching? Maybe the Evil Old English Teacher should mentor to you and remind you why respectful teachers chose the teaching profession.
V for Vendetta
May 7th, 2009
8:07 am
CVIP, but at what point to they become advocates for THEMSELVES? To join the army, one must be eighteen years of age. Haven’t MOST people figured out the basics of right and wrong, of crime and punishment, of action and consequence by then? Don’t get me wrong, I know people do a lot of stupid things once they’re beyond eighteen years of age; however, sometimes learning something the hard way is the last recourse left to kids who just can’t get it through their heads.
Let me make something perfectly clear: I have ZERO problem incorporating some of these lessons into the context of a high school classroom, but that’s it. The idea of setting up some sort of separate class or test or seminar or whatever is what bothers me. We baby kids FAR too much now as it is. As another poster observed, it is true that yesterday’s senior prank is today’s criminal charge, but that means we need to be more vigilant and understanding as parents–not ask for others to do yet another thing for us.
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 7th, 2009
8:38 am
V
I totally agree…they do and are accountable and rightly so. I also agree that the first line of responsibility is the parents but sadly some parents don’t take the call seriously and in the end society as whole pays the price. I’m just simply saying we should all use every avenue available to make a difference. I also agree that these lessons can and should be incorporated into the current high school and middle school requirements. I don’t think a separate class is necessary either.
p.s. sorry for the repeat of my comments…
Northern Visitor
May 7th, 2009
9:54 am
Not a problem CVIP. You’re just fitting the stereotype of the inbred slack-jawed yokel that us Northerners love to laugh at.
Sarah H
May 7th, 2009
10:15 am
Still here, NV? Did you check the birthplace of the people you are going to let go (fire)? Hope there aren’t to many non-Georgians in the group.
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 7th, 2009
10:18 am
Northern Visitor
Are you still here? Go Home! …and take your ignorant arrogant narrow mind with you. “inbred slack-jawed yoke”…just more proof of your ignorance and doesn’t warrant a comment…you make me laugh! …it is so obvious that you don’t know anything about southerners but that’s okay just slither back north. Actually I have a lot of friends from the north…so no I won’t insult them by calling you a northerner you’re just an _ _ _! …and an embarrassment to other folks from the north. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Reality
May 7th, 2009
10:32 am
jim d – Sometimes you are so exasperating!
Just because someone thinks that it is not the responsibility of a school to teach the ‘rights of students’ does NOT mean that they think that students should not be informed. How twisted of a mind do you have?
Schools cannot do everything. Schools cannot teach everything. There are things that should be taught by parents. There are things that are best taught by parents. If some parents don’t do this, it does not mean that the responsbility falls onto schools.
In order for schools to succeed, missions need to be clearly stated (such as teach math, science, etc.). These missions need to be realistic within the time allowed and the resources provided. If you or anyone wants schools to do more – then it will cost more (higher taxes) and your child will need to be in school longer.
Still want schools to do everything?
V for Vendetta
May 7th, 2009
10:53 am
NV is obviously a fourteen-year-old kid, not the VP of a Fortune 500 . . . blah, blah, blah.
Anyway, CVIP, the reason that these kids don’t have accountability is irrelevant. I don’t believe the whole “bad for society” angle. Society is not a living, breathing, entity; when we start doing things for “society,” we start down an altruistic path that leads us to socialism (the political version of altruism). If people were truly accountable for their actions, then these kids wouldn’t be “society’s” problem. They would be their OWN problem. We enable this kind of behavior by cleaning up the mess, providing welfare, and giving unearned benefits to those who don’t deserve them. The kids with a shred of accountability will join the Army or something similar. The kids who can’t get it together will (or SHOULD) live in poverty, end up in jail, or (eventually) die. My question to you is: why is that MY problem?
You see, my life is going pretty well. I go to my job, work hard, and provide for my family. I have large amounts of free time and enjoy certain hobbies. I did well in school. I did well in college. I’m doing well now . . . .
The point is this: My parents taught me well, supported me, and helped send me down the right path in life. After that, it was up to me. There was no one following along to help me out, and, had I screwed up royally by doing something insanely stupid, my parents wouldn’t have bailed me out anyway. Is that really what we need in this country–more bailouts? I, for one, have had quite enough of that.
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 7th, 2009
11:06 am
Reality
I think everyone is in agreement that the first line of responsibility is with the parents. I don’t think anyone has said that the burden should fall solely on the schools. Schools/teachers do carry the burden of educating kids in the basic areas of Reading, Math, Science, English and History…but education is more than that…it is the process of educating by formal instruction; to provide with information; to develop mentally and/or morally by instruction. To teach is to impart knowledge. Teachers prepare kids for tomorrow. I agree the majority of the teachers do not make nearly enough money for the responsibility of their job…teaching is a thankless job.
No, no one has even suggested that schools do everything…society just needs the assistance. When you have the advantage…take it!
V for Vendetta
May 7th, 2009
11:36 am
“. . . society just needs the assistance.”
And just what “assistance” does society need? And whose expense? When you start personifying “society,” you start down a dangerous path that can only lead to altruism. You’re placind the good of society above that of the people, asking them to sacrifice for “the greater good.” That’s altruism in a nutshell–and, as an extension, socialism. Do we want more of that?
It’s the same thing with the environmentalists. They personify the Earth, doing things for “the good of the planet.” Though I don’t advocate dumping garbage everywhere, I still question this nonsense about “the good of the planet.” The Earth will still be around long after we’re gone. Don’t worry about that.
So will “society,” for that matter. I think people would be much more productive citizens if they thought of society as a group of INDIVIDUALS living and working in the same environment–not as an entity unto itself. Anyone who tells you to do something for the good of society wants to take money from you and give it to someone who hasn’t earned it.
Kim
May 7th, 2009
12:35 pm
I think its a great idea..A lot of kids obviously aren’t getting it at home.
Kim
May 7th, 2009
12:37 pm
Northern visitor- It’s WE northerners, not US northerners!! Obviously grammar isn’t taught up north!
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 7th, 2009
1:17 pm
Vendetta
WOW! You are very fortunate to have such insight… “The Earth will still be around long after we’re gone.” Do you come by this knowledge how?
I also learned ethics growing up. You don’t like “society”…sorry …but each one of us doesn’t live on our own individual planet …though it would be nice if some did …live on another planet that is.
“good of society wants to take money from you and give it to someone who hasn’t earned it” I agree with this…with the exception of education. Unless, you’re suggesting we do away with taxes. Then we could take that money and pay for our kid’s education and pay teachers a decent income.
Maybe if people were taught…problems would be less. They do become “society’s” problem…when they end up in jail or on welfare. Personally…I’m tired of all the “free” lunches, “free” medical, “free” everything…it’s not “free”…those of us working pay for these “freebies”. I haven’t been “bailed” out either…nobody subsidizes my income or pays my mortgage. My prayer is that maybe, just maybe if kids are educated they can pull themselves up…and start helping to pay some of these expenses. I’d love to have “all” of my pay check and keep my taxes.
P.S. I do think your right…the Northern Visitor is possibly a 14 year old who is not doing well in English and grammar.
Northern Visitor
May 7th, 2009
1:21 pm
Spot on Vendetta! CVIP sounds like a busy-body ready to spend other peoples money to solve societies ills.
Kim…
Go play grammer nazi with your brood if you have any. I have an MBA from the Wharton School of Business. Its not I that you have to worry about.
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 7th, 2009
2:11 pm
Northern Visitor
My experience has been…people who have to brag about their successes and accomplishments are usually exaggerating. You don’t have to “tell” people you’re all “it”…intelligence and knowledge is shown through people’s actions…enough said.
…methinks someone is trying to over compensate.
Kim …nice lesson …to bad it over his head.
)
Northern Visitor
May 7th, 2009
2:17 pm
“to bad it over his head”?
With that one sentence you have just exposed yourself for who you really are: a welfare mom, 4 kids 3 different daddies living on public assistance. QUIT TRYING TO SPEND MY MONEY!
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 7th, 2009
2:22 pm
You obviously haven’t been keeping up on this blog. I’ve worked for the Army for over 30 years. Your money…I doubt it!
high school teacher
May 7th, 2009
2:22 pm
V, per your socialistic society scenario,
If you believe that, then why do you teach in a public school? Aren’t you helping to advance “society” by assisting in the government-funded public education? How can you believe that it’s every man for himself yet teach in a public school?
If you are teaching in a private school, my apologies.
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 7th, 2009
2:27 pm
Kim …correction “to bad it’s over his head” my apologies.
Northern Visitor
May 7th, 2009
2:33 pm
“worked for the Army for over 30 years.”
Ok I’m sorry. I didn’t know that you are a camp follower.
Northern Visitor
May 7th, 2009
2:36 pm
I think that what V is saying is that too many people are sucking on the public teat. I agree with that. We complain that taxes are too high but no one wants to give up anything. I believe in a totally free market. Thats how I got rich not trying to brag. Only parasites and freeloaders constantly have their hand out looking for a free lunch.
Erin
May 7th, 2009
3:24 pm
@ CVIP on your correction to Kim: “TOO,” not “to.” Sorry!
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 7th, 2009
7:48 pm
Northern Visitor
You make me laugh. You claim to have a silver spoon in your mouth but I believe it just very well maybe plastic. People with class and fortune don’t have to tell people about it…actions speak louder than words. I hope for your sake that you are as successful as you say you are…but remember success isn’t measured simply by your bank account.
Erin
Thanks!
ScienceTeacher671
May 7th, 2009
9:51 pm
Isn’t it an axiom that on the internet, anyone can be whoever they want to be?
ScienceTeacher671
May 7th, 2009
9:53 pm
CVIP, sorry that you missed the sarcasm. I’m betting that the other teachers “got it.”
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 7th, 2009
10:19 pm
ScienceTeacher671
I stand corrected…and I apologize. Thank you.
ScienceTeacher671
May 8th, 2009
6:11 am
CVIP, no problem.
V for Vendetta
May 8th, 2009
12:53 pm
CVIP, I think we agree on more than you might perceive. I am assuming a hypothetical situation in which people would wake up and realize that we should NOT be obligated to spend money on the free services you mention. I also think this applies to school, which is why we should look into privatizing the system. I also don’t think it takes a great deal of insight to hypothesize that the Earth will still be here after we’re gone. The planet is 4.5 billion years old. It’s survived a lot worse than the likes of us.
high school teacher, I teach in a public school. Do I agree with the methods by which it’s funded and structured? NO. Do I feel the need to educated the future generations so that they might conduct themselves with a little more autonomy than is presently displayed by the majority of America? YES.
SET
May 9th, 2009
6:18 pm
it is essential that this subject is taught. Most of these students will have the high school diploma as their terminal degree. Knowing the basics of Civil and Criminal law is just a Civics lessons which must be covered in high school. No the parents can’t teach it. Parents are unschooled in vicarious liability, contract law and rules of evidence. Turning out these kids without a clue of law increases their risks of inadvertent criminal and civil liability – and I see it every day in the criminal courts up to and including murder cases (the people sitting in the getaway car). And as far as the sex crimes, most people don’t know child molest can be committed verbally – and with lifetime sex registration. The misinformation and cluelessness about law is as dangeous as STD ignorance especially with what is going on all the time in our cities.
Concerned and Very Involved Parent
May 12th, 2009
9:25 am
SET, very nicely stated! I agree!
N.Ga. Teacher
May 12th, 2009
10:29 am
The weakness of the state curriculum is that is far too narrow. Theoretically, given good home lives and parenting, high school should focus strictly on academics, arts and physical education. The fact, sad though it is, is that families and society have changed for the worse since the 1960s and 1970s. Due to parental problems like poverty, divorce, and crime, a huge percent of kids come to school without any concept of manners, law and morality, let alone math and reading skills and motivation. If kids don’t get the proper “life” training here, they simply will not get it and become huge burdens on the rest of us as criminals or prisoners. At my high school we have a “social leadership” program that identifies at-risk kids and encourages them to take the course. The class discusses work ethic, study skills, and educates kids to the risks of behaviors. They take field trips to prisons and other places where kids can get a “real-life” look at situations. If we can save just one kid it is all worth it.
SET
May 12th, 2009
12:49 pm
Another thing, teaching Law isn’t about teaching “rights”. I can give these silly kids all their “rights” and still grind them into paste in a courtroom. We are teaching the rules, that’s all. Graduating public school kids from what is typically their last classroom education without teaching the rules of our society sets them up for endless problems on the job, in housing, in the criminal courts and in society in general. there is no way the parents can cover the subject – if they even have parents. A strong semester long Law Class will also involve exercises in verbal/reading skills. And if it is taught correctly it should disabuse these kids about feeling safe and secure with all their “rights”. Teaching law is teaching Civics and a decent public school is going to cover Civics well.
tony l. odom
May 19th, 2009
2:09 pm
they need to bring back prayer and discipline . Then,they well know right from wrong !!
jim d
May 19th, 2009
3:59 pm
Mr. Odom,
Please get your facts staright.
Prayer has never left, only state led prayer. If students wish to pray they may and are protected in doing so as long as they do so in a non disruptive manner.
Atlanta Journal Constitution » Blog Archive » Crime and punishment class for Georgia students?
May 20th, 2009
1:11 am
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