More from Johnson on Groh
Some notes from Paul Johnson’s news conference regarding the dismissal of defensive coordinator Al Groh:
1. On Groh: “Nobody worked harder than Al. Nobody put in more time and I certainly appreciate everything he did while he was here.”
2. Johnson said he arrived at his decision Monday morning after taking time to mull it over and watch game video. He saw errors in communication and alignment that kept repeating themselves. As he said multiple times, Groh’s game plans were sound and he didn’t lack for knowledge. Rather, the communication of his plan wasn’t getting onto the field, in Johnson’s opinion.
3. Johnson’s involvement will be setting parameters and framework and from there will be provided as necessary. As is his wont, he said he prefers to give the assistants the leeway to do what they feel is best. One parameter he’ll stress is to keep the defense simple enough to be played without error.
“Certainly, we want to be multiple enough that we can play, but we want to be sound,” Johnson said. “I don’t want to come in Monday and have 40 missed assignments. It’s not going to do you any good.”
3. The scheme won’t completely change, although he said the line won’t play as much “two-gap” as it had, although the defense had been doing less of that. (In a two-gap scheme, linemen line up directly across from an offensive linemen and is responsible for the gap on either side of the offensive lineman. The idea is to “build a wall,” a phrase Groh often used, to force running backs to run laterally.)
In a one-gap scheme, a lineman sets up between two offensive linemen and is responsible for that one gap. It typically requires more players to commit to run-stopping, since the linemen are responsible for one gap each instead of two, but Tech’s personnel is probably better suited for it.
That said, Johnson has never been married to one defensive scheme or another.
“I don’t think you’ve got to trick people,” he said. “I think you line up and know what you’re doing and play fast.”
4. Johnson said the decision was based on a body of work and his conclusion that the problems weren’t going to go away. He acknowledged that Tech’s issues go beyond defense, but he felt the defense’s problems could be addressed with a change.
“It’s a chance to move forward and see how we can do,” he said. “I think that we can play better than we’ve played. So we’ll see.”
5. Johnson on player reaction: “I’m sure that you have mixed emotions. I’m sure that a lot of the players are disappointed. I’m sure Coach Groh was very well-liked. They also understand that we haven’t played as well as we’ve needed. … They’re fairly resilient. You’ll know in a week or two what their reaction is, I guess.”
6. Johnson said the defense will practice at a higher tempo moving forward with more live-hitting and full-speed drills. He acknowledged it being philosophically different from Groh.
“It’s not like we didn’t tackle in practice, but the pace of practice is a little bit different than what it will be,” he said.
He wants the team to spend more time on tackling and pursuit, “some of those things that we haven’t been as good at.”
7. Johnson said he was encouraged by the team’s play in the first couple games of the season, but “it became apparent that it was short-lived.” Notably, the third-down defense was worse despite attempts to address it long before the season began. Tech’s defensive conversion rate was 42.4 percent last year and is now 47.8 percent and 67.4 percent in the past three games.
“There was some recurring themes that we weren’t getting better,” he said.
8. Johnson said he didn’t think Groh’s firing will impact recruiting. He said he planned to call committed defensive players that night, which he evidently did. Michael Carvell has a post with reaction from Tech commits, including Darius Commissiong, a defensive tackle from Maryland who called Groh “like a father figure.”
9. Johnson on the difficulty of the decision: “It’s really disappointing and frustrating. You never want to do these things. You never want to have to, but to me, that’s part of being a leader. Sometimes you have to do hard things. I have a great deal of respect for Al. He’s, in my mind, had a very good career and may still coach. I don’t know what his future holds, but it just wasn’t working here. It doesn’t mean that it won’t work the next place or whatever, but it just wasn’t working right now.”
10. Johnson on the talent level: “I’m not sold that we don’t have good players. I’m confident in our players’ abilities. We’ll see.”
11. On possible replacements: “There’ll be plenty of time to worry about that and to evaluate that as the next six games play out.”
12. Johnson said he was hopeful that giving the remaining defensive coaches more responsibility will energize them. He said that Groh’s philosophy was that he often coached the defense as a whole, giving the position coaches less responsibility.
Johnson’s plan is to have players spend more time with their position groups.
Meeting with the entire offensive unit, he said, “I can’t get into the details and into the weeds like if I only met with the quarterbacks. I can get way more in-depth with them or way more in-depth with the receivers if I’ve just got the receivers in there because they don’t have to worry about what the offensive line’s looking at or doing. It’s just a different philosophy.”
Thanks for reading.
Ken Sugiura, Georgia Tech blog
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111 comments Add your comment
juvenal
October 9th, 2012
10:14 am
tougher practices would help….
George Stein
October 9th, 2012
10:21 am
Do you think talent was an issue or the issue, Ken?
To the extent that communication was/is a problem, Johnson said similar things while Wommack was here. I wonder why that’s a recurring theme.
IronJacket
October 9th, 2012
10:21 am
Ken,
Any names getting thrown around as whom might be of interest as the next DC?
juvenal
October 9th, 2012
10:28 am
Al must have had some part of recruiting the defense,,,,,how much time was he on the road? doubt Herb Brooks was much liked, or Erk…….
SuperJacket
October 9th, 2012
10:32 am
Not sure about this move. Having spoken to the players, we have some real beasts–Kallon, Gamble–that would not only be able to play 2-gap, but are also legit NFL prospects with the intelligence to understand in-game adjustments. With a solid front three, we are looking at a completely different defensive unit with versatile linebackers and an experienced secondary. We have to play those games, but experience would suggest that we are 1 year away from being pretty good. I just hope the next guy remembers that Groh is giving him a pretty good base and a pipeline which we’ve never seen at Tech–at least on the defensive side. We’ll miss you coach Groh! You are a better man than most will ever know.
GT Joe
October 9th, 2012
10:49 am
Ken, did he fire Tevin?
FL Jacket
October 9th, 2012
10:51 am
I think the discussion of 1-gap or 2-gap schemes is completely overblown. Wherever you line up, you have to shed blocks and make tackles…PERIOD. Virginia Tech beat us because they didn’t allow themselves (especially on the perimeter) to be blocked.
From my vantage point, it seemed Al Groh focused on the philosophical a little too much at the detriment of the fundamental. He asked his players to do too much “thinking” and not enough “reacting”.
Wal-Mart Retards
October 9th, 2012
10:51 am
I agree with Tevin. GT Joe’s got to go!
FL Jacket
October 9th, 2012
10:53 am
“Ken, did he fire Tevin?”
It’s tough to fire a kid who’s completing 63% of his passes and achieving a higher YPC than Josh Nesbitt.
FL Jacket
October 9th, 2012
10:54 am
Wal-Mart…
I think we need to call him “GT Groh”…not GT Joe
Wal-Mart Retards
October 9th, 2012
10:55 am
Amen to that, brother.
yeller bug
October 9th, 2012
11:04 am
I was surprised to see a change in mid-season, but the great multitude (not that Tech has a great mulitude, but figure of speech) were calling off with his head. Paying coaches big money dictate faster reaction and results. Bottom Line is that it wasn’t getting done on the field.
It would be an interesting stat to see the yards per play given up on 1st & 2nd down as compared to 3rd down. I think Ken pointed out that the conversion rate was higher for teams with more than 7 yds to go than less. What were we doing differently that made us so inept on 3rd down?
The two-gap comment acknowledges that we do not have the horses on the D line as to run that means your D line must consistently beat his opponent mano-a-mano.
Maybe the shock of this move will get our team out of their funk. Still have 6 or 7 games left to play. We have a shot to win them all.
Jacket Detective
October 9th, 2012
11:06 am
He got rid of Groh but it does not seem he realizes he made a bad decision to hire him.
I’m curious if he looked around any after he fired Wommack or took the short cut and hired the guy hanging around who would come cheap since Virginia was stuck paying Groh over a million a year for two years.
Jacket Detective
October 9th, 2012
11:08 am
Al Groh was a modern day Trojan horse.
Left at the gate until brought in to destroy our football program.
Virginia fans must be delighted they got something for their millions.
Jacket Detective
October 9th, 2012
11:10 am
Here is the real reason for the firing.
I’ll attend the BC game but I would not have if Groh remained.
And if I’m thinking like that, so are many other fans as well.
yeller bug
October 9th, 2012
11:14 am
Agree with your second point FL Jacket. I made an analogy last week that Groh was like Hewitt in B-ball—Hewitt would analyze to details such as forcing opponents clockwise around screens so they’d have to pivot against their body to shoot, meanwhile no one was blocking out and the team couldn’t even inbound the ball. Groh has great depth of knowledge but it appeared he focused on the subtleties meanwhile his players didn’t know who to cover in pass defense. You could see the confusion with the players, thus CPJ’s comment of lack of communication and a need to simplify things.
Hope it works out for the best for GT and for Al Groh.
Jacket Detective
October 9th, 2012
11:17 am
I’ve gone a little overboard today with my Trojan Horse analogy but I’m hoping one of my Tech English profs from decades ago will read them and upgrade their opinion of me.
No?
Durn.
mulk
October 9th, 2012
11:24 am
Superjacket,
Beasts? What pipeline? What base?
Jacket Detective
October 9th, 2012
11:28 am
I do not care at all what happens to Groh.
I’m always hearing from Republican friends about how terrible our creeping socialism is.
Well why do we have a system for fired coaches that enables as bad a welfare program – millions to do nothing – as anything the government does?
BTW, I was a Dem for twenty years, a Republican for about that and now am disgusted with both.
Jacket Detective
October 9th, 2012
11:29 am
What will be the effect of the firing?
Tech fans like me will make plans to attend instead of staying home.
juvenal
October 9th, 2012
11:34 am
Superjacket, even uga can,t get NTs to play 3-4-what NT beast you mean?
Ken Sugiura
October 9th, 2012
11:37 am
George – I think talent is always an issue. That said, I don’t think the talent level is such that it should be giving up 600 yards twice in three games.
SuperJacket, you could be right. time will tell on the timing. Even if he hadn’t been fired Monday, though, it would have been hard to envision him making it past the end of the season unless things completely reversed themselves, which Johnson (and many others) concluded wasn’t going to happen.
And even if Kallon and Gamble are as good as advertised, you might be in a situation of waiting a couple years for a return. Something else to consider is that this year was also advertised as the year things would shape up.
Jacket Detective – I have to think Johnson is smart enough to realize the mistake. No one asked him, but I imagine if he were asked, “If you could go back in time, would you make the same hire?” i tend to think he’d say no.
GT Alum '83
October 9th, 2012
11:41 am
As usual, good reporting Ken. Thanks. As talented as I’ve been hearing Groh is, for years I’ve kept hearing how Tech needs to simplify the defense for the players. I’ve kept on wondering how simple do we have to make it? Either Groh’s ideas are too complex or these kids are too dumb, or both, but regardless…as CPJ noted… Groh’s schemes are not making it onto the field. I like yeller bug’s comparison to Hewitt.
ahsoisee
October 9th, 2012
11:45 am
It is not the recruiting, it is the coaching of the recruits. Use the talent you have to their best ability in a systen that utilizes their strengths and talents. Do not try to force a square peg into a round hole.
Rodney Kent
GTNashvegas
October 9th, 2012
11:58 am
CPJ needs to go. It’s not working.
Dacusville Bill
October 9th, 2012
12:01 pm
Fire Pitiful Paul before somebody beside the Tech Program gets hurt–Would like to buy him for what he is worth and sell him for what HE THINKS he is worth
Supersize that order, mutt
October 9th, 2012
12:01 pm
@ GTNashvegas…..what exactly isn’t working? Well, duhhh, the defense wasn’t working, but the offense, for the most part, sure is. If not for the defense, Tech would probably be undefeated right now. Can you tell me a game so far this season where the offense didn’t perform? Can you tell me a game so far this season, other than the Presbyterian game, where the defense DID perform?
Supersize that order, mutt
October 9th, 2012
12:02 pm
Same comment to you, Dacusville Bill. You are both FOS
Supersize that order, mutt
October 9th, 2012
12:03 pm
@ Ken…..great reporting. I could hear you asking questions at the press conference yesterday……at least I THINK I recognized your voice. Thanks for some really great objective coverage of the Jackets. All of us regular bloggers appreciate all that you do.
GT Fan
October 9th, 2012
12:08 pm
GT’s horrible 3rd down D in a nutshell:
After Shawn Green’s INT, and GT’s subsequent 4th down failure at the Clemson 7 yd line…..
1st down … 1 yd gain
2nd down … 2 yd gain
3rd down & SEVEN (7)….37 yd gain!
1st down … 13 yd gain
1st down … Sack, 4 yd loss
2nd down … 4 yd gain
3rd down & TEN (10) ….23 yd gain!
1st down … 2 yd gain
2nd down …. Sack, 5 yd loss
3rd down & THIRTEEN (13)….15 yd gain!
It’s now 1st & goal at GT’s 5 … The D holds on 3rd down this time, but too late. Clemson kicks FG
Baffling how the D played so well on 1st & 2nd downs on that drive then totally disappeared on 3rd downs??
Supersize that order, mutt
October 9th, 2012
12:11 pm
@ GT Fan…..the sad thing is that is not unique to Groh’s defenses; it has been going on for years. I have long sat in the stands and prayed that we would not be put in a 3rd and long situation, because I knew we would not cover it. That happened even under Tenuta.
Jmonty
October 9th, 2012
12:13 pm
Good job on reporting. I think Groh was horrible. Talent or not… He didn’t know how to utilize what he had. Not blitzing. Not disguising the blitzes, the rare times he did. He coached scared and the players played that way. I was NEVER a Groh fan. He was a loser at UVA and he is still a loser. He will always be a loser. CPJ was 100% correct in cutting bat and running. The bye week will give time for the “D” to adjust. On a side note: Ken… If CPJ needs a good DC have him contact me. I guarantee I will do much better than Groh… “no show” needed to go. Maybe… just maybe we can win some games and get in a bowl.
Jmonty
October 9th, 2012
12:17 pm
@ GT Fan…. Yep… When you don’t play the 3-4 “D” like it should… That happens. Tough pill to swallow. But it’s true… The 3-4 is all about gap assignments. A little smoke and mirrors to confuse the QB. But, gap assignments are the key to it. “no show” acted like he didn’t even know what gap assignment was. Either he didn’t teach it…or the players didn’t listen. I am going with the fact it wasn’t taught.
Augusta Jacket
October 9th, 2012
12:18 pm
GT is 1st in the nation in rushing, 11th in total yards and 16th in scoring offense. PJ and Tevin are not the problem. Defense is. That said, with this season shot, I’d like to see Vad get prepped for next year.
1 4 GT
October 9th, 2012
12:19 pm
You Falcons fans will remember this. HC Dan Henning & his “H” back offense? Even the best of the best of his square pegs couldn’t be forced into his round holes. <His offense didn’t fit their talents. I don’t recall any other team giving him a shot at being HC. Don’t recall his “H” back offense ever having much success in the NFL for that matter.
GT Fan
October 9th, 2012
12:20 pm
Supersize …. The D pretty much dominated UVA too.
I think that’s what still has me so confused about the total implosion of the D in the past 3 weeks.
Since being held to 297 yds by GT, UVA’s O has put up 353 yds (@TCU), 625 yds (La Tech), and 461 yds (@Duke)
btgt69
October 9th, 2012
12:24 pm
just beat uga
Augusta Jacket
October 9th, 2012
12:25 pm
^ AMEN!
btgt69
October 9th, 2012
12:25 pm
uga just announced the acquisition of a new athletic dorm: Clarke County Jail
GT Fan
October 9th, 2012
12:26 pm
Remember Tenuta too, SS. Thought he blitzed too much, leaving his DBs on their own “1-on-1 islands” …. When teams were handling his blitzs, QBs (See Matt Ryan AT BDS, passing for 435yds) were torching GT for big gains.
Yes, I agree the 3rd down D failures have been happening throughout PJ’s tenure. I’ve pointed that out plenty of times to the folks that sat around me at games. It realy is mind-boggling how bad 3rd down D has been.
Tokyo jacket
October 9th, 2012
12:26 pm
@ Supersize – they played pretty darn well against UVA.
Jmonty
October 9th, 2012
12:28 pm
Groh was a bad hire on CPJ’s behalf. The “D” was almost always not aligned properly. The gap assignments were not even close to right. Any coach that runs the 3-4 knows the basics of the defense is gap assignments. When those assignments aren’t taught or followed it leaves huge holes in the defense. This was very evident is the Miami, MTSU and the Clemson game. I understand missed tackles and such. However; when players are running around in chaos, where does the blame lie? Has to be the coach. Again… I NEVER have like Groh. He may think he knows what he’s doing… But he doesn’t. He can talk a good game… but can’t play it. Maybe he was good on Madden football or something… But as a coach?? He sucks.
SuperJacket
October 9th, 2012
12:30 pm
Jacket Detective–Groh was hired because he handily beat Johnson in the early years when GT was dominating and no-one seemed to have a clue. I don’t think I’ve seen a coach ‘out-coach’ Johnson, but Groh came the closest to it. In reference to the other questions, the linebackers we have are in the upper echelon of the ACC, Harrell, the kid from Florida and the middle linebacker from NC could all be playing on any number of teams. We have a sick collection of athletes from Milton and Noble to the old QB from Monroe–again a team strength. The pipeline is in the Northeast, where kids can handle the workload of Tech, are usually academically adept and where the culture is for kids to go out of state for college. GT has a lot to appeal to these kids, our name there is almost as good as in FL, where they think all GT grads are rocket scientists. The beasts are Kallon and Gamble. Kallon, if he keeps developing, has a shot to be a special player. And contrary to popular belief, you don’t need a NFL caliber NT. You just need someone who can contain both A-gaps and not necessarily get squeezed. He also needs some lateral quickness, which teams have recently figured out we don’t have. I believe Gotsis could be this guy, and I’m willing to bet beaucoup bucks him, Kallon and Gamble are going to be the 3 that get us heading back in the right direction. A little too late for Groh though.
1 4 GT
October 9th, 2012
12:32 pm
Y’all are misplacing your sympathies for Groh. The defensive guys are the ones feeling all out of sorts. They lost a mentor that a lot of them looked up to. A councilor and advisor & friend. They are young & will bounce back, but for now a great many of them are in a state of mild shock & feeling responsible for this. Groh is a “fully” grown up man & should ride off into the sunset & enjoy retirement. Offensive guys to a much lesser extent.
GT Fan
October 9th, 2012
12:40 pm
Clemson was 7 for 9 on 3rd downs in the 2nd half. 6 of the 7 converts were 7 yds are longer:
Jmonty
October 9th, 2012
12:43 pm
The players will be better without Groh. Sorry… I felt sorry for the players for having to be coached by him. You can get advise from a drug dealer… but it doesn’t mean it the right source. The players will be better for him leaving. GT needs a strong and creative DC… One that can utilize the players talents. Groh did not do that very well. Need a DC that can put some fire back into the players. Again. Groh didn’t do that very well. I think if the players believe in the system they will do better. I’m not sold that they beleived in Groh. They played way too timid..
GT Fan
October 9th, 2012
12:45 pm
SuperJacket … Groh was 1-1 vs. Johnson before PJ hired him as DC.
2008 UVA 24-17 in ATL
2009 GT 34-9 @ UVA … broke some long losing streak by GT teams @ UVA.
GT had a few 3rd failures plus TWO killer fumbles in the 3rd qtr that were big factors in UVA’s 2008 W.
Please explain, again, how AG dominated PJ ….
GT Fan
October 9th, 2012
12:45 pm
3rd down failures …
ToeMeetsLeather
October 9th, 2012
12:49 pm
Ken, do you think you would ever be able to get Groh to comment on the lack of the D ever seeing a decent pro style offensive set in the spring, fall camp or scout team sessions during the season, to practice against? Would love to hear him honestly say if he thinks it hurts the D’s preparation.
TeknocratNOTdemokrat
October 9th, 2012
12:53 pm
FL Jacket wrote:
“From my vantage point, it seemed Al Groh focused on the philosophical a little too much at the detriment of the fundamental. He asked his players to do too much “thinking” and not enough “reacting”.”
Amen – thinking TOO much keeps one from reacting to what he knows he should do…too many ‘what ifs’ rolling around in the brain pan. Just STOP the guy.
Certainly know though, that I did NOT dislike the guy – if the players liked him as much as they say, then he related to them in a good way…it just didn’t translate to action on the field.
Jmonty
October 9th, 2012
12:57 pm
@ ToeMeetsLeather… Groh had how long to get the “D” in order? He seen how many games of pro type offenses? I really don’t think him commenting will say much. I think he will say any excuse in the book. Point is… The basics of the 3-4 is gap assignments… Doesn’t matter what offense you play.. It’s gap control and gap assignment. None of that was ever done. So… I really don’t think it mattered what offense they played vs practiced against. Groh was not aggressive when he needed to be and looked clueless in many games.
Born2Buzz
October 9th, 2012
1:05 pm
CPJ – “you line up and know what you’re doing and play fast.”
CAG – “We want to build a wall and make the RB’s go laterally.”
See the difference? Attack, Attack, Attack!!! That is the way to play great D.
And this was as much a PR move as a football move. Don’t kid yourselves otherwise.
1 4 GT
October 9th, 2012
1:17 pm
The PR part was in pulling the trigger now instead of after the season. It was inevitable.
SuperJacket
October 9th, 2012
1:21 pm
GT fan–I said GT was dominating not the other way around. And I’m pretty sure CPJ will agree with me on being handily beaten in that ATL game. Can’t remember the spread but I knew lots of folks who lost money. Groh countered all of CPJs adjustments and then some. Now back to work…
If do right, no can defense
October 9th, 2012
1:30 pm
Brave decision, on balance. I think CPJ is a great coach, and our continuing defensive problems may have to do with him staying “aloof” from the defensive side of the ball for the 5 years he’s been here. He needs to take control, and get involved… not easy to do when an older and highly respected guy reports to you. He may not be a defensive scheming genius like Groh, but he understands the philosophy of defense: attack full speed, play hard and 100% on every down, know what you’re supposed to do.
I sincerely hope our D takes the message, because I have no doubt that we would improve by a lot if our players took that to heart.
*P.S. did anyone notice more pressure on the QB in the Clemson game? We definitely blitzed more, though it meant 1-on-1 coverage in the secondary and missed assignments/open guys on the left half of the downfield.
Tech Troll 13
October 9th, 2012
1:30 pm
GT Joe must be related to Vad Lee.
Promethius
October 9th, 2012
1:38 pm
We still have UNC on the road. How does UNC compare to Clempson? Any takers?
Promethius
October 9th, 2012
1:40 pm
…..or Clemson?
SansWorld
October 9th, 2012
1:43 pm
“the D ever seeing a decent pro style offensive set in the spring, fall camp or scout team sessions during the season, to practice against?”
Doesn’t the GT the D typically practice against the scout team running a conventional offence?
Do other schools have their first string going against scout teams in practice, or do they match up against their first string counterparts? Or does GT only do this because having the D practice against the option does not prep them for most defenses they see.
Supersize that order, mutt
October 9th, 2012
1:51 pm
@ SansWorld….I think all schools use their scout teams in practice
Supersize that order, mutt
October 9th, 2012
1:53 pm
@ If do right……did you know that when Erk Russell first hired CPJ at GA Southern, he hired him as defensive coordinator. Some were said to have asked why hire an offensive man as your DC, and Erk said because nobody understands the needs of the defense more than an offensive-minded man. I only heard that 2 weeks ago from somebody very familiar with GA Southern football. And yes, I was at the Clemson game and I DID see us applying (or attempting to apply) MUCH MORE pressure on the QB
Supersize that order, mutt
October 9th, 2012
1:54 pm
@ Prometheus…..historically, Tech always struggles at UNC. Remember that awful come from behind tie in 1990??? I said at the beginning of the season that that game scared me. It still does, although I don’t think the Heels are as good as the Tigers
1 4 GT
October 9th, 2012
2:11 pm
Question? Anybody know how a goat came to be the mascot of a “tar heel”? And how did they get to be “tar heels”?
SansWorld
October 9th, 2012
2:14 pm
Haven’t we only lost to UNC two or three times in the last 15 years. I know in 2010 we went down there and validated ourselves after the Kansas loss. Probably the highlight of the season.
Promethius
October 9th, 2012
2:15 pm
I believe their mascot is a ram, and the nickname was given to keep pace with some of the more vicious mascots and nicknames, such as bulldogs.
SansWorld
October 9th, 2012
2:19 pm
I recall tar heals was from the civil war. A NC brigade would not retreat, and an a general comment that they were stuck in place like they had tar on their heals.
Promethius
October 9th, 2012
2:21 pm
I believe Tech “validated” itself by 6 pts in 2010 against a U N C team playing w/12 players suspend.
Supersize that order, mutt
October 9th, 2012
2:22 pm
From Wkipedia —- Tar Heel (or Tarheel) is a nickname applied to the state and inhabitants of North Carolina as well as the nickname of the University of North Carolina athletic teams, students, alumni, and fans.
The exact etymology of the nickname is unknown, but most experts believe its roots come from the fact that tar, pitch, and turpentine created from the vast pine forests were one of North Carolina’s most important exports early in the state’s history.
Because the exact history of the term is unknown, a number of legends have developed to explain it. One such legend claims it to be a nickname given during the U.S. Civil War, because of the state’s importance on the Confederate side, and the fact that the troops “stuck to their ranks like they had tar on their heels”.
Deep South
October 9th, 2012
2:24 pm
I believe UNC equals Clemson on offense and bests them on defense.
Supersize that order, mutt
October 9th, 2012
2:26 pm
@ Deep South…..I disagree. They may be better on defense than Clemson, but not on offense
Deep South
October 9th, 2012
2:28 pm
UNC in top 20 in almost all major O and D stats.
Deep South
October 9th, 2012
2:30 pm
They are both pretty darn good on offense.
SansWorld
October 9th, 2012
2:33 pm
I think UNC was ranked at the time in 2010 and they were a touchdown favorite, They had just lost a close game to LSU. They were probably the best team we beat that year. It was a good tough win.
Supersize that order, mutt
October 9th, 2012
2:38 pm
I wasn’t aware that UNC was ranked highly in either O or D
1 4 GT
October 9th, 2012
2:39 pm
Thanks for the info. Interesting! While I do not like the reality of the Civil War, I respect the history of it & the strengthening of the nation (over the long haul) that it brought about. Sounds like they were good, proud folks from the South.
SansWorld
October 9th, 2012
2:46 pm
UNC look bad against Wake w/o Bernard. but have looked good since. They almost rallied to beat a good Louisville team.
GT needs to bring there A game, or at least our B game.
Bernard may be the best back in the league.
SansWorld
October 9th, 2012
2:46 pm
…their..
Born2Buzz
October 9th, 2012
2:46 pm
let’s worry about beating BC first. Worry about UNC when the time comes. They do have a new HC and CPJ normally gets the advantage in the first go around.
Of course if our D doesn’t ever stop anyone we can’t beat anyone. But AG is gone, so it has to get better…right? Right??? Anybody???
old school
October 9th, 2012
2:55 pm
How about bringing back Ted Roof? He would at least have the heart and be able to recruit the area?
yeller bug
October 9th, 2012
4:05 pm
As a born and raised “Tarheel” the above provided by Sans and SS is correct. Tar, pitch and turpentine (not all that pleasant a work to extract and manufacture) were the major products made in NC at the start of our nation. One of the Civil War (better known as the War of Northern Aggression) incidents was that another Confederate regiment was giving an NC regiment a hard time about that line of work and telling them to go fetch them some tar in which members of the NC regiment replied, “Y’all do need some tar to put to your heels so that you don’t run so easily.” The verbal exchange was overheard by an officer on Lee’s staff who reported it to Gen. Lee in which Lee supposedly replied, “God bless those Tarheel boys.”
UNC has a new coach from So. Miss who is good, they have a potential big academic scandal brewing [Several "No attendance required" classes that many athletes have taken] that they’ve successfully managed to keep quiet (GT needed their lawyers for our deal) and their offense is solid but nowhere near the talent of Clemson, but their D is much better. They have money, but they’ve always been a B-ball school since Dean Smith. Mac Brown coached there a few years and got them to the Top 10, but he left for Texas and the program has never been a top tier contender since. The hope was that Butch Davis would bring them to top level contention, but he proved to be so corrupt, he had to be fired. So they are rebuilding and they will be a force to reckon with in the near future. This year even though we play at their place, we can take them if we solve our defensive woes.
old dog
October 9th, 2012
4:31 pm
At least y’all adjust to your problems. You were trying to run a defense you did not have the personel to run. We, on the other hand, refuse to realize that in the SEC, you MUST have a line! Here is a free tip………..crowd our o-line….man up on them and smash them in the mouth, and gues what? You will beat us this year be cause WE, unlike y’all, have STILL not addressed our worst issue. It ain’t defense, skill players, etc., although we can take a look there. It is pure and simple; we ain’t got the trench-monsters to make it happen against the big boys. Sure, we can beat the patsies, but S.C exposed us, as will Florida. Pack it in on us boys, don’t get fancy. Just man-up and see what we ain’t got!…..then maybe our staff will do what should have been done years ago.bring in some frickin’ linemen! Congrats again on addressing your issues……….
Deep South
October 9th, 2012
4:48 pm
Yeller Bug – UNC expert. CBD proved to be so corrupt….where is the proof? Did the NCAA accuse him of wrongdoing? Did the Chancellor who fired him. Or was it simply the bogus “it happened on his watch”? Better pay close attention unless you have some proof no one else has.
If do right, no can defense
October 9th, 2012
5:01 pm
@Supersize: I honestly did not know that CPJ was once a defensive guy… learn something new everyday.
Now I hope the Jackets come out in force on 10/20. I will be there to support them. We will RISE ABOVE THIS.
If do right, no can defense
October 9th, 2012
5:06 pm
Thanks old dog, classy comment. Though respectfully, I disagree with your analysis of the dawgs failure against SoCar. You guys have the players… in terms of recruiting, it’s as good as it gets.
I just think it was a mental/attitude thing with your players. Took it easy, expecting a walkover, and got soundly beaten by a team that wanted it more. Just weren’t ready…
ignition
October 9th, 2012
5:19 pm
Lets move forward and grab someone from Bama’s coaching staff ..
I like all those names but I would like to add Chris Rumph to this list..
Lance Thompson has coached at Tech before..
The secondary coach at Bama is good too..
Supersize that order, mutt
October 9th, 2012
5:26 pm
@ If do right……..that was news to me too about CPJ coaching the D at Ga Southern. But it IS true. That’s why Erk Russell was the genius that everyone knows he was. He knew at that particular point in time that CPJ’s offensive knowledge would make him a good, if not great, DC. Imagine what UGA would have been over the years if they had hired Erk when Dooley retired. Thank God they didn’t. LOL
Supersize that order, mutt
October 9th, 2012
5:47 pm
Has anybody seen superDawg on the blogs this week? He said he would come tailgate with us if USC beat UGA, and I need to find out if he’s going to live up to his end of the bargain, so I will have time to try to buy a crow for yeller bug to cook for him next week. LOL
yeller bug
October 9th, 2012
5:51 pm
Deep South—why did UNC fire Davis—wasn’t performance. He had a secretary/tutor/baby sitter doing papers for players—-this scandal runs deep. Recently the Chancellor just resigned: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8390950/north-carolina-tar-heels-chancellor-holden-thorp-resigns-latest-athletic-scandal
There’s significant evidence of collusion between academia and athletes going back to the Juluis Pepper days and even some of UNC champoinship B-ball players may be involved. One sportswriter called it the worst scandal in NCAA history. I’m not following it in detail—have a few family members who went to NCSU who rant about it, but definitely Butch Davis was let go due to this scandal of which he was a part—if you’re saying he just got caught up in it innocently—from the evidence that’s a big stretch.
Deep South
October 9th, 2012
6:14 pm
Butch Davis did not have anyone doing papers for players. He employed a tutor for his son that had been recommended by the university. Said tutor overstepped the bounds by providing more help on a bibliography for a FB player than was allowable. The bibliography with suggested changes was made public. Hell, i bet half of all FB players have their entire papers written by their girlfriends. Are you saying CBD was complicit in the tutor’s misdeeds? I believe you have an agenda.
Deep South
October 9th, 2012
6:23 pm
If you examined the courses taken by FB players at Tech or at UGa, would you not find that there were certain courses populated in large degree by the most at risk athletes. And were the grades given out in these courses much higher than those given in other courses? Did such courses not keep athletes eligible. You can spin the facts, but in the end UNC is no more corrupt than the 2 Ga schools.
1 4 GT
October 9th, 2012
6:26 pm
WOW!! Milton HS basketville put on probation by GHSA today. What the heck is going on when hs teams are put on probation? Illegally recruiting players. The evil is drifting down to hs level,
Prometheus
October 9th, 2012
6:31 pm
Yellar Bug shud follow the details of the UNC case if he wants to join the dbate.
1 4 GT
October 9th, 2012
6:34 pm
I’ve been catching up on the blogs & thinking. A comment caused me to think about the defensive troubles GT has been having. What if we were to switch over to the 5-2 alignment. It would create some problems for opposing team coaches & players. It would create a complete change in everyone’s blocking scheme’s. Would have to get the suggestion to our coaches. Opinions???
1 4 GT
October 9th, 2012
6:43 pm
Guys, all I know about what went on @ UNC is what I see in the news. But I think it is highly improbable that the academia & administrators @ UNC did this without the knowledge and/or involvement of the coaches. I mean really, the players had to be informed of this somehow. Remember, this also involves the basketball program and goes back to Julius Peppers days on campus. I don’t believe Roy Williams has been there long enough to get caught up in this, IMO. Like I said, all I know is from reports in the news. Just saying.
Prometheus
October 9th, 2012
7:00 pm
Just like coaches and their staffs at Tech and UGa know where to direct at risk players. Let’s be real!
JD
October 9th, 2012
7:06 pm
After watching the last three games when the other teams offense was ready to go and our defense was not even set because Groh was still trying to decide what to do, I knew that every team would go “hurry up” on us. Let’s hope that we can at least get some third down stops by being lined up to play.
yeller bug
October 9th, 2012
7:40 pm
No agenda here, heck I bled Carolina blue until I went to Tech. You’ve got coaches, chancellors and presidents resigning over this and you think it’s nothing? I think it’s sad because UNC was (and still is) a great school. They’ve certainly turned hard left over the last two decades—they’re becoming the Berkley of the east. As for the scandal and the blame, I guess we’ll see how it unfolds.
JetBuzz
October 9th, 2012
8:00 pm
It’s obvious the accelerated and dynamic CFB of today has passed-by CAG. Perhaps his intricate scheming and combos would still work in NFL camps w/ pros, but as the old adage goes – you’ve got to know your audience.
He was well intentioned but ineffective on the Flats. His successor has the advantage of knowing what DOESN’T work on Game Day.
Priority One: Recruit. Priority Two: See Priority One. Priority Three: Simplify, and enable recruits to be playmakers. Lou Holtz said football isn’t complicated.
TechApp fan
October 9th, 2012
8:41 pm
1 4, are you a cracker?
Some up here callem tarholes….saw a new name recently…airheads. Wow. Tech needs to get that
Navy weapons class…no test, no attendance…just a final report. (just kidding)
1 4 GT
October 9th, 2012
9:35 pm
Last time I looked I was a cracker->than a yankee!
Ron
October 9th, 2012
11:20 pm
We need to realize that Paul Johnson is not the coach we need at Tech. We need a more dynamic coach that can not only win, but one that can recruit and provide a better alternative than going off to our neighbors that border this great talent pool that we have here in Georgia. I really do not like the Offense that we have and the Coach is often putting us in crazy predicaments … OUR DEFENSE! We need to hire someone with a Pro-Style Offense that can get more “A” plus athlete’s on both sides of the ball. Heaven forbid us being behind by 2 TD’s, our offense can’t come from behind from a bad deficit. After all of this being said, i remain a long standing Tech fan and would love to know that we have a real chance to win everytime we take the field.
Full Metal Jacket
October 9th, 2012
11:49 pm
CPJ is here to stay, for at least another 2-3 years, barring a major scandal or the Rapture. (Not sure where we’ll all be at the Rapture but I don’t count on seeing many UGA fans there.) DRad has made it clear (and I happen to agree with him on this point) that while we are trending the wrong way recently Coach Johnson has earned the chance to right the ship and turn things around. I believe we’d have to have several disastrous (3 or 4 wins) seasons before CPJ’s seat gets really warm. I do hope we get the chance to see more of Vad Lee–I’m not convinced he’s as great as many think–and Coach Kelly now has the chance to revive the defense for the home stretch. This team is fairly young, and next season promised to be much better than this year even before this year started so badly.
GT Islander
October 10th, 2012
12:35 am
Drad STILL thinks CPJ is the “right man for the job”!!!!! This in spite of having hired Groh and kept him long after it was obvious that he could not get the job done. He has 9 loses in last 13 games with HIS players. 16/16 in games after the bulk of Gaily’s recruits were gone. This record brings a ringing endorsement from the AD? Maybe Drad needs to go as well is he things this record is acceptable by his “right man”!
Tech football is officially dead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ron
October 10th, 2012
8:22 am
@ GT Islander…I totally agree! That ancient Offense will only win our division, not a BCS title! Paul Johnson is no Mr. Fix it, we’re only biding our time til we can grab the next great coach. Everybody elses program in the ACC is moving forward, we’re still dangling on the rope of hope!
old dog
October 10th, 2012
8:38 am
@IF Do Right………
Wrong my friend….we DO NOT have an SEC caliber o-line…period. We cannot compete (as we showed last year against Boise State, LSU, and Michigan State in the bowl game) with the likes of South Carolina in the trenches…..we have not recruited well on the o-line whan it comes to the level of SEC competition. It was not just that we had a bad game (which we did.) We got our tails torn up in the trenches up front, and if we played the(South Carolina) again the same would happen. Watch what I tell you….a good coach will stack up our line…..and whip us. And, it will not be luck; we just are lacking. I know what y’all are wondering….why is old dog on our blog? Well, old dog admires Tech for AT LEAST TRYING to address a problem. Every UGA person from arm-chair QB’s to UGA the bulldog knows our o-line is missing. We will continue to get smacked up front, and for all the great recruiting we do, we get a D (at best) on the o-line. We have NOT addressed it, nor have we really attempted to. Muschamp has been at Florida a short while….he has passed us. Even Dooley at Tennessee will pass us next year, ‘coz like his dad he knows it starts up front.
Congrats again on trying to correct a problem. Hopefully some of that will rub off on us……..
TechLB
October 10th, 2012
9:17 am
@Deep South/Prometheus – “If you examined the courses taken by FB players at Tech or at UGa, would you not find that there were certain courses populated in large degree by the most at risk athletes. And were the grades given out in these courses much higher than those given in other courses? Did such courses not keep athletes eligible. ”
“Just like coaches and their staffs at Tech and UGa know where to direct at risk players. Let’s be real!”
Ignorant comments about academics at Tech. Yes, there are a few freshman or elective classes easier than others where all students get better grades, not just athletes. When I was in school, Tech professors would call you out as being on scholarship and make it very clear there was no consideration given to athletes, in fact, more was expected.
Tech has very few classes to steer “at risk” players to, not even close to enough to keep a poor student in school for very long much less eligible. You have to pass some serious math classes to stay in school at Tech in every degree program and there are far fewer choices than in most liberal arts schools. That’s just being real. Are there some difficult programs at UGA and others? Sure! Just more options for less serious students.
I guess it makes you feel better trying to equalize the academics but it’s BS whether they play football or not.
beezit
October 10th, 2012
3:34 pm
“As is his wont, he said he prefers…”
Brilliant….a Masterpiece.!!.
GT79MD83
October 10th, 2012
8:30 pm
This will not help much this year. We can count on TW to not make plays in crunch time(4th Quarter or Overtime). Just look at the last 7 games.The defense gets alot of the blame but the offense cannot get that extra yardage necessary for first downs late in the game to sustain drives. And how about that masterfull usage of the clock.
Worst Fans Ever
October 12th, 2012
1:23 am
Ron and GT Islander, you should read this: http://thebirddog.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/five-myths-of-paul-johnsons-offense/
Worst Fans Ever
October 12th, 2012
1:42 am
This one’s good for education also to all those CPJ haters out there: http://thebirddog.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/other-peoples-rivalries-and-the-futility-of-defending-against-the-wishbone/
unajacket
October 12th, 2012
5:11 pm
Does anyone out there believe that our defensive talent is as decent as NC State? They allowed l6 points to FSU & shut them out in the second half. Who is the defensive coordinator at NCS??