Fitting MTSU loss into Tech history
In case you wanted more torment, I attempted to place Saturday’s 49-28 loss to Middle Tennessee State in Georgia Tech’s bad loss history. As some of you probably know better than I do, it’s historically bad. You could argue it’s worse than the 17-14 Furman loss in 1983, as the margin of defeat was greater and I don’t know that much was expected from that team.
The losses were based on two criteria – that the opponent be a lesser-caliber team and margin of victory. It excludes costly ACC losses or losses to Georgia, but my thinking is that a loss to Georgia or an ACC team (or opponents of the other leagues Tech has belonged to in the past) is more understandable than a loss to a team from the Sun Belt Conference or, in the case of Furman, an FCS team. I’m distinguishing between a bad loss and a costly or emotionally painful loss. Miami was costly. MTSU was bad.
“Lesser caliber” is difficult to determine, particularly the further you go back. The Sagaran rating for the 1902 St. Albans team is not readily accessible, for example. (Much of the information, particularly about opponents, is from websites that I deem to be reasonably reliable.)
1983 – 17-14 loss to Furman. The Paladins were, and are, an FCS (or I-AA) team, so would be even less expected to beat Tech than MTSU was. It remains Tech’s only loss to an FCS-level team. (The Jackets tied Furman in 1986.)
1981 – 28-15 loss to Memphis. (then Memphis State) The Tigers were an independent so I don’t know how you’d categorize them, but they were pretty rancid. Memphis (State) scored more than 13 points only once that season, and that was against Tech in its only win of the season. Tech also went 1-10 after opening the season with a win over No. 4 Alabama in Birmingham in Bill Curry’s second season. I know some about that game, but that’s a tough one to understand.
1968 – 35-14 loss to Navy. The Midshipmen were 2-8 against a rigorous independent schedule. They beat Tech in November, part of a four-game losing streak to end Bud Carson’s second season after the retirement of Bobby Dodd. Navy’s only other win was over Pittsburgh. Tech was 4-6.
From this point to the beginning of the century, Tech’s schedule was almost exclusively comprised of teams on its level, and the Jackets beat just about all of the more suspect outfits.
1902 – 17-0 loss to St. Albans (Va.). St. Albans lost to Virginia 15-0 and 10-0 to N.C. State and tied Furman 0-0, according to sports-reference.com, just two days after beating Tech at Brisbine Park. That Tech team was 0-6-2 under the leadership of Coach John McKee and captain Bully Young, so it’s hard to call this a bad loss, given that the Jackets weren’t very good, as was the case of most of Tech’s first teams. McKee did not return for the 1903 season, after which John Heisman became coach. Brisbine Park, possibly Brisbane Park, was about eight blocks west of where Turner Field now stands.
1900 – 23-0 loss to Nashville. I believe this is the University of Nashville, which Wikipedia says closed in 1909. Nashville lost to Auburn 28-0 and 18-0 to Vanderbilt that season. Tech was 0-4 that season and was outscored 107-6. Games were played at Piedmont Park.
Ken Sugiura, Georgia Tech blog
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243 comments Add your comment
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
4:57 pm
Fuzzy: do you think he would have gotten more than 4 yards on 19 carries (i.e., what Tevin did against mtsu)?
Do you think that if Vad got , say, 50 yards, on 19 carries, the outcome could have been different (he’s averaging 10 ypc on the season)? Do you think that essentially throwing away 19 offensive plays has ANY effect on the outcome of the game? Or do you want to continue to think that the defense operates in a vacuum and is not affected by our offense?
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
4:58 pm
Macon: did you miss the first down pass Vad threw in the 1st quarter? Thought you watched the game?
D-MAN
October 1st, 2012
4:59 pm
Bunch of crybabys, grow up! See ya at the annual beatdown in Athens.
fuzzybee78
October 1st, 2012
5:00 pm
Joe—the 4 fumbles and the stupid penalties and the poor pass blocking have more to do with the loss than TW play. The 4 yards are after you subtract the yardage for losses due to poor blocking or protection.
MaconGTFan
October 1st, 2012
5:02 pm
No I didn’t see that. Just saw the option plays he tried to run and couldn’t, which ended in a punt. Vads not ready and over 90% of the stats you give on Vad are in mop up duty. Unless his stats came in the first half, leave them out. What he did against UVA and Presbyterian are useless. All those stats came in mop up duty after Tech won against second and third string defenses.
fuzzybee78
October 1st, 2012
5:03 pm
made my case, Im done for now.
MaconGTFan
October 1st, 2012
5:05 pm
@fuzzybee78 Joe obviously can’t comprehend that the rest of this team has holes in it and that its not all Tevins fault. Like how you pointed out Tevins rushing yards were so small because they take away lost yards from his total.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
5:05 pm
Fuzzy, you clearly missed the two underthrown ducks that Tevin threw, one resulting in an INT, both should have been TDs. Nah, nothing to do with the loss, huh?
If you and Macon think Tevin has played well enough to keep his job, then your expectations are quite low, sadly.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
5:06 pm
Macon: LOL, yeah, lost yards aren’t “real” yards. Wow.
In the NFL, QBs who take too many sacks and lose yards get…benched. But at GT, we give the QB a pass!
MaconGTFan
October 1st, 2012
5:09 pm
Good point there Joe. Who was the QB in the falcons game yesterday at the end when Ryan had already been sacked 7 or 8 times? I can’t for the life of me remember his name, even though he drove them down the field for a game winning field goal after giving up a lot of sacks. But according to you that drive should have never happened.
ATL Sports Fan
October 1st, 2012
5:13 pm
I saw where someone posted a couple pages back that “it’s not the coaching, its Tevin Washington”. I will agree Washington hasnt played all that great. But to say its not the coaching is crazy. Who makes up the depth chart? Who pencils Tevin Washington in as the starting QB? Last time I checked it was the COACHES!!
GTBoro
October 1st, 2012
5:17 pm
I’m a GT alum who lives in Murfreesboro, TN, where MTSU is. I’m an MTSU season-ticket holder and saw them lose to McNeese St. to start the season. They’ve been on a hot streak since, but nothing that would have suggested what happened Saturday. This has to be the worst or second worse loss in Tech football history. Even if MTSU finishes 11-1 this year, there’s no excuse for them beating us, much less beating us like they did. GT’s just finished a three-year 2-for-1 series with MTSU, but right now, I really hope we play them again.
CPJ Fan
October 1st, 2012
5:26 pm
Ken, how about some analysis of our offensive production under Johnson. Looking back over the CPJ era, we’re generally putting more points on the board (on average) than the Gailey, O’Leary and certainly Lewis years. Our problem has been Special Teams and the D letting teams back in the game to out score us. It’s difficult to compare apples to apples b/c our passing yardage is going to be low. However, total yardage is is respectable and the points on the board generally above average. If we don’t let teams score 49 points the TO gets the job done. CPJ addressed the Special Teams coaching in the off season, now he needs to let Groh go.
Gus in Marietta
October 1st, 2012
5:34 pm
First, a disclaimer: I stayed home and didn’t watch Saturday’s embarrassment. Thank goodness.
Second, this is probably the worst loss in the last 40 years. I have been to nearly every home game (and a few road games) since 1976. I saw the Furman loss, the Memphis loss, a Duke loss on Halloween, etc. I saw the Bill Lewis team quit on him mid-season. So I have seen pletnty of crappy games.
But this loss is not an aberration. We are getting steadily worse. We just don’t have the talent to compete. The tricky CPJ offense is a thing of beauty and allows us to win some games we probably shouldn’t. The problem is that our players are not as big, fast, strong or talented as most of the teams we play. Certainly the elite teams are in a whole different category than us these days. We have always had several star players on the team — guys who would go on to play (and do well) in the NFL. These days, those guys are not wearing white and gold. How many of our players would crack the starting lineup at UGA? At FSU? At Clemson? At Miami? At Bama? (there’s a laugh!). Which of our offensive guys is that good? Who on defense? You don’t win consistently with inferior talent. Big plays are made by star players. Games are won with big plays. So until CPJ figures out how to recruit better or we change coaches, we are pretty much doomed to mediocrity or worse.
That’s it. Ugly and sad, but deep down those of us who bleed white and gold know it to be so…
Delbert D.
October 1st, 2012
5:43 pm
Point spread-wise, probably the biggest upset was 2007, with USC favored by 40 points over Stanford. Stanford won, 24-23. They have upset USC 4 years in a row now, if I recall correctly.
Delbert D.
October 1st, 2012
5:46 pm
That was a bit out context. Anyway, Tech isn’t USC, and MTSU isn’t Stanford.
New Idea
October 1st, 2012
6:16 pm
GT means nothing in this State because Gt is turning their backs on Georgia students. Look at this quote from Wikipedia
Around 50–55% of all Georgia Tech students are residents of the state of Georgia, around 20% come from overseas, and 25–30% are residents of other U.S. states or territories.
Georgia Tech’s Charter says they exist for Georgia. Why are Georgia Taxpayers subsiding students from everywhere. GT needs to benefit Georgia with Georgia Students. I believe UGA is 90% Georgia. No wonder the GT students do not go to Football games. I blame this on the GT admin. and BOR for turning their backs on Georgia students. We need some non science Majors and allow more Georgia Students in. Look at our Charter and ask the BOR and Governor why?
Delbert D.
October 1st, 2012
6:20 pm
More students from Georgia could probably enroll if they choose to and if they meet the qualifications. As with most selective colleges, more are accepted than actually enroll.
HighTech
October 1st, 2012
6:20 pm
Do not despair!
All is not lost!
In every crisis there is opportunity!
There’s five pounds of possum in my headlights tonight!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2d-D1qM9dY
dagnabit
October 1st, 2012
6:28 pm
Al Groh needs to be gone by 7 pm today.
Delbert D.
October 1st, 2012
6:29 pm
What good would that do?
Supersize that order, mutt
October 1st, 2012
6:32 pm
@ New Idea……since you found stats on Tech’s student body makeup, why not do the same for UGA’s? I am sure there is higher percentage of Ga kids at UGA than at Tech, but I doubt it is 90%. If it is, then that certainly doesn’t say much for the appeal of a UGA degree. Not being petty here, but any school that relies solely on in-state students must not have much to offer.
Delbert D.
October 1st, 2012
6:35 pm
Super – I think that is the same guy who has been posting the same message for the past 2 days.
GTpack
October 1st, 2012
6:35 pm
Pretty bad when you have to dig back almost 30 years to find a loss that was “comparable”. I was at the Furman game, and this one to me was worse, but maybe that is because it is fresher in my mind.
GTpack
October 1st, 2012
6:36 pm
No more coaches named Bill or Paul. lol
Delbert D.
October 1st, 2012
6:36 pm
Not the same post, as in cut and pasted, but the same complaint.
HighTech
October 1st, 2012
6:37 pm
Super – I think that is the same guy who has been posting the same message on all of the GT message boards, too.
Delbert D.
October 1st, 2012
6:39 pm
GTpack – I don’t think Belichick is looking for a job anyway.
New Idea
October 1st, 2012
6:39 pm
Supersize,
Georgia Schools are for Georgians. Why are nearly 50% of Tech students National and International?
Supersize that order, mutt
October 1st, 2012
6:41 pm
@ New Idea……because Ga Tech is one of the top colleges in the entire world. Why wouldn’t Tech have lots of national and international students. I am sure UGA would kill to have similar statistics, because it would mean more money for them through endowments. In case you didn’t know this, Tech is also one of the most endowed colleges in the world.
Delbert D.
October 1st, 2012
6:45 pm
A large percentage of Georgia high school students do not qualify. Parents in China start prepping their kids for the top colleges at age 3. Here’s something I turned up a couple of years ago while researching why the U.S. has fallen so far behind other countries in education:
A Stratified Education System
Updated December 4, 2010, 12:53 AM
Qiang Zha is an assistant professor of education at York University in Toronto, and a co-author, most recently of, “Portraits of 21st Century Chinese Universities: In the Move to Mass Higher Education.”
“With the market economy developing, divisions in China’s job market naturally emerged. The elite university graduates and those who studied “hard” programs, i.e., the sciences and technology, found better opportunities in the primary job market where there’s great demand for their knowledge and skills.
“The local college graduates and particularly those who studied “soft” programs are more likely to be pushed to the secondary job market, which is characterized by low wages and high levels of labor turnover.”
Supersize that order, mutt
October 1st, 2012
6:49 pm
@ New Idea…….the fact is that not all students in Georgia are interested in the kind of education offered at Tech, so why would you expect only Georgia kids to attend there? UGA offers a more varied curriculum, some of it worthy (pre-med type majors, pre-law type majors, journalism, veterinary medicine, etc), but a lot of it is totally worthless and should be considered an embarrassment to the state, rather than something to brag about.
New Idea
October 1st, 2012
6:50 pm
Supersize,
Read the Charter. We exist for the benefit of Georgia. We are taxpayer supported and shut out the same taxpayers in favor of International and Out of State students? Makes me mad. If we were private I could see it but not Public Funded.
HighTech
October 1st, 2012
6:52 pm
Georgia students do not pay tuition (at least they didn’t use to). Out of state and international students pay tuition. This is quite a bit above and in addition to the matriculation that Georgia students pay.
HighTech
October 1st, 2012
6:53 pm
Georgia Tech is a tremendous bargain for in-state students who qualify for admission.
Supersize that order, mutt
October 1st, 2012
6:53 pm
@ New Idea……so do you want students at Tech who don’t qualify? or who aren’t interested to begin with? If an in-state kid qualifies, then he is not rejected.
Delbert D.
October 1st, 2012
6:55 pm
The are enough state schools that admit students who meet the basic requirements for admission.
Supersize that order, mutt
October 1st, 2012
6:55 pm
@ HT……Georgia students who don’t earn Hope Scholarships have to pay something. When I was a student, there was no Hope Scholarship, and my parents had to pay tuition, though not nearly as high as out-of-state students had to pay, or (I assume) international students.
Delbert D.
October 1st, 2012
6:55 pm
There
Supersize that order, mutt
October 1st, 2012
6:57 pm
@ New Idea……in my opinion, your thoughts are incredibly naive and provincial. I can only assume that you mean well, but I don’t buy any of it.
HighTech
October 1st, 2012
6:57 pm
Supersize – Georgia students paid something called matriculation. That way, the politicians could say Georgia students can go to any state school tuition free. Out of state students paid tuition on top of matriculation.
The Ugly truth
October 1st, 2012
7:01 pm
I predict that the entire Tech coaching staff will be gone in 3 years.
Delbert D.
October 1st, 2012
7:01 pm
The argument being made for the last 2 days by a person, and now possibly a second person, is that Georgia Tech ps being punished by the board of Regents, but the main complaint is that Tech does not offer easier majors that would allow Tech to recruit better football players.
Supersize that order, mutt
October 1st, 2012
7:01 pm
@ HT……when I went to Tech it WAS called TUITION, not matriculation. And what out of state students paid was called Out of State Tuition. They might have changed the words used later on, but it still means the same thing.
Supersize that order, mutt
October 1st, 2012
7:05 pm
The BOR has never done any favors for Tech, but the fact is that because of Tech’s international reputation, Tech is greater than the BOR. Obviously, Tech cannot change the curriculum without BOR approval, but if any particular change meant more money for Tech, and thus more money for the state of Georgia, the BOR would be overruled in a flash if they tried to stop it. Even though the BOR bowed to emperor Adams and added and engineering school in Athens, there were several UGA-grad legislators who objected and said they would never vote for one penny of funding for that school. Not all UGA grads are dummies…..LOL
Supersize that order, mutt
October 1st, 2012
7:06 pm
Damn, what’s with the filters? I just typed out a long comment and it didn’t go through. But it’s time for dinner, and I’m not going to attempt to re-post it now. Later, guys
BLT
October 1st, 2012
7:25 pm
You live to fight another day!
Yes, it was awful and I wonder about the defensive play. Did they “lay down”? I guess we’ll find out against Clemson.
I do know for a fact Tevin cannot throw regardless of some of his decent passes last year and this year. Is this a similar situation that happened years ago when many of the players wanted Donnie Davis at QB? Time will tell.
Either way, Go Jackets!
New Idea
October 1st, 2012
7:25 pm
Supersize,
Your opinion is respected but facts are facts.
BLT
October 1st, 2012
7:26 pm
And wrexie can kiss my hairy arse!
tech hater
October 1st, 2012
7:27 pm
@supersize We are glad you are going to dinner. Maybe someone can offer an intelligent observation while you are eating your TV dinner.