Fitting MTSU loss into Tech history
In case you wanted more torment, I attempted to place Saturday’s 49-28 loss to Middle Tennessee State in Georgia Tech’s bad loss history. As some of you probably know better than I do, it’s historically bad. You could argue it’s worse than the 17-14 Furman loss in 1983, as the margin of defeat was greater and I don’t know that much was expected from that team.
The losses were based on two criteria – that the opponent be a lesser-caliber team and margin of victory. It excludes costly ACC losses or losses to Georgia, but my thinking is that a loss to Georgia or an ACC team (or opponents of the other leagues Tech has belonged to in the past) is more understandable than a loss to a team from the Sun Belt Conference or, in the case of Furman, an FCS team. I’m distinguishing between a bad loss and a costly or emotionally painful loss. Miami was costly. MTSU was bad.
“Lesser caliber” is difficult to determine, particularly the further you go back. The Sagaran rating for the 1902 St. Albans team is not readily accessible, for example. (Much of the information, particularly about opponents, is from websites that I deem to be reasonably reliable.)
1983 – 17-14 loss to Furman. The Paladins were, and are, an FCS (or I-AA) team, so would be even less expected to beat Tech than MTSU was. It remains Tech’s only loss to an FCS-level team. (The Jackets tied Furman in 1986.)
1981 – 28-15 loss to Memphis. (then Memphis State) The Tigers were an independent so I don’t know how you’d categorize them, but they were pretty rancid. Memphis (State) scored more than 13 points only once that season, and that was against Tech in its only win of the season. Tech also went 1-10 after opening the season with a win over No. 4 Alabama in Birmingham in Bill Curry’s second season. I know some about that game, but that’s a tough one to understand.
1968 – 35-14 loss to Navy. The Midshipmen were 2-8 against a rigorous independent schedule. They beat Tech in November, part of a four-game losing streak to end Bud Carson’s second season after the retirement of Bobby Dodd. Navy’s only other win was over Pittsburgh. Tech was 4-6.
From this point to the beginning of the century, Tech’s schedule was almost exclusively comprised of teams on its level, and the Jackets beat just about all of the more suspect outfits.
1902 – 17-0 loss to St. Albans (Va.). St. Albans lost to Virginia 15-0 and 10-0 to N.C. State and tied Furman 0-0, according to sports-reference.com, just two days after beating Tech at Brisbine Park. That Tech team was 0-6-2 under the leadership of Coach John McKee and captain Bully Young, so it’s hard to call this a bad loss, given that the Jackets weren’t very good, as was the case of most of Tech’s first teams. McKee did not return for the 1903 season, after which John Heisman became coach. Brisbine Park, possibly Brisbane Park, was about eight blocks west of where Turner Field now stands.
1900 – 23-0 loss to Nashville. I believe this is the University of Nashville, which Wikipedia says closed in 1909. Nashville lost to Auburn 28-0 and 18-0 to Vanderbilt that season. Tech was 0-4 that season and was outscored 107-6. Games were played at Piedmont Park.
Ken Sugiura, Georgia Tech blog
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243 comments Add your comment
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
3:28 pm
USMC: talent is there. CPJ just has them on the bench. Days. Snoddy. Lee. In 2014, we’ll be wondering how on earth these kids were riding pine in 2012.
Supersize that order, mutt
October 1st, 2012
3:28 pm
@ Joe……I don’t disagree with any of that. But at the same time I don’t hate Tevin, the way you seem to. I doubt that you really hate do him, but you DO seem to in some of your posts. Hate the way he plays, but don’t hate the man. At least give him credit for trying; after all, he’s not trying to lose. I am sure he hates the way things turn out as much as anybody. One positive thing I saw him do Saturday, and it well may have been his fault that he got in this position, but late in the game he literally hurdled over some defenders on the sideline reaching out and making a first down in an extremely difficult situation. Again, maybe he put himself in that situation to begin with, but at least he TRIED (and succeeded on that play) to make something out of it.
WnE
October 1st, 2012
3:29 pm
re:
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
1:30 pm
CPJ record without Tevin Washington: 25-8
CPJ record WITH Tevin Washington: 11-12
Any Questions?
________________
Who is the guy that RECRUITED TW and then judged him to be the best QB and put him atop the QB depth chart?
Any more Questions?
Ghost
October 1st, 2012
3:30 pm
Vad or Days could be the 2nd coming of RG3 but with the lack of talent at skill positions and poor line play the results would be similar. Straight across the board MTSU had better Rb, Wrs, Qb than GT. PJ has failed miserably as a “head coach”
Supersize that order, mutt
October 1st, 2012
3:34 pm
@ USMC……not trying to use the curriculum as an excuse, but Stanford is a UNIVERSITY, just like UGA is. They offer MANY MORE degrees for athletes than Tech does. That being said, however, the recent ranking of colleges based on income earned after graduation compared to cost of the education shows Tech as number 1 in the entire country. UGA, to their credit, ranks number 4, but that is more than likely due to the fact that most doctors and lawyers graduate from schools like UGA, and not schools like Tech. Even so though, the difference in points between number 1 and number 4 is quite substantial. Even with a limited curriculum, that ranking should be exploited to the max by Tech in recruiting. After all, although most HS grads like to think they may someday play in the NFL, the vast majority of them never do. One would think that going to a school where the potential for becoming wealthy in non-athletic fields after graduation would be a BIG recruiting tool.
Tech Man
October 1st, 2012
3:35 pm
Here’s the bad news. We’re stuck with CPJ for at least 3 more years. Don’t have to worry about anyone hiring him away because no one wants to put up with his ego and the triple option. So, basically we’re stuck with him until his contract runs out. And then if we would happen to beat Georgia, which I seriously doubt, RAD would probably give him a 6 year extension. Bottom line CPJ isn’t going anywhere.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
3:35 pm
Never said I hated Tevin. In fact, never said anything negative about him as a person. All I have said is, Vad is a better passer, runner, athlete. I said Tevin can’t throw. I said he throws ducks. I said he gets tackled by the first guy almost every time. I said he chokes and makes bad mistakes in critical times. I said he tries hard, but you need to try hard AND have athleticism to win. These are all just facts, not insults. not hate.
A real man can accept that his best is just not good enough.
USMC Dawg
October 1st, 2012
3:35 pm
“USMC: talent is there. CPJ just has them on the bench. Days. Snoddy. Lee. In 2014, we’ll be wondering how on earth these kids were riding pine in 2012.”–GT Joe
Not a bad example Joe, but you need it across the board, like in the TRENCHES, etc.
But I agree with your point. Please don’t play Vad Lee against my Bulldawgs. Tevin is starting to resemble Reggie Ball, well may be that’s a stretch, but you get my point.
One other point, if CPJ has had MUCH more success when he just runs the ball, why not leave the pass alone. When that Tech “Run” Offense is clicking on all cylinders, it’s hard to stop. But you have to have a DEFENSE.
I think CPJ has been trying to incorporate a pass attack because of the fans “whining” about NOT having one. WHo cares! Run the friggin ball and tie up the loose ends on Defense.
Go Dawgs!
Ekim56
October 1st, 2012
3:37 pm
BigTimeTECHFan
October 1st, 2012
1:28 pm
Don’t forget all the losses to UGA, They are very weak , 90% of the time Tech is a way better team and we find a way to lose.
——————————————————————————————————————————————–
I disagree entirely. I’d say 80-90% of the time Georgia is way better and once in a blue moon we find a way to win. And I’m not a UGA fan; I just call it the way I see it.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
3:37 pm
WnE: I don’t fault CPJ for recruiting Tevin. Kid was player of the year in his state. He’s just not as good as folks thought he could be.
I DO fault CPJ for sticking with Tevin. I DO fault CPJ for not starting his star recruit (Vad) LAST year. Vad is probably the best recruit CPJ has gotten, and he is doing nothing.
Supersize that order, mutt
October 1st, 2012
3:38 pm
Joe, I know you never said you hate Tevin, but some of what you say, and the frequency with which you say pretty much the same thing, SEEMS to IMPLY a hatred for him.
greta
October 1st, 2012
3:41 pm
Help from D Rad? Thats funny!
He helped us violate NCAA rules to the tune of several scholaships and vacating of ACC championship, with no remorse or apology or accountability from anyone.
And now this coaching debacle the A D has overseen. If this is help from D rad we have had enough!
GT is D Rad’s retirement plan. He is laughing all the way to the Bank!
Does not represent Tech. Neither does pj. He is no coach. Wants to punch someone and hang himself after losing. I wonder why the players have quit.
Oh never mind.
Rottin from the top and no repercussions.
Alumni of influence are asleep.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
3:43 pm
I’ve been on here since the VT game calling for Vad. All I heard was “he’s not ready”. “can’t throw him into the fire”. “if CPJ thought he was ready, he’d be starter”.
My question is this: how will we know that Vad is ready? Are we waiting for a sign from God? And if he’s not ready now, why do you think he’ll be ready Fall 2013?
USMC Dawg
October 1st, 2012
3:49 pm
Some young defensive Asst. coach needs to go GRAB these kids on the defense and get them back to basics. Drive into their heads the idea of “Keep it simple stupid”. Let the recent past GO! and let’s get back to having fun on defense. These kids look like they are timid or “over thinking” DEFENSE.
Al Groh needs to quietly pass the reins to his best subordinate, get out of the way, and become an adviser/figure head.
-just saying
Grinch
October 1st, 2012
3:50 pm
Doesn’t matter if T Washington under-threw 25 passes….our D couldn’t stop MTSU for ONE DRIVE! So it’s all water under the bridge on TW’s performance. Offense scored 28 points…. they just can’t defend under 49…..
Grinch
October 1st, 2012
3:53 pm
The time is now to start Vad b/c your season is tanked, fans are bailing and falling from the stands in droves, and even Dawg fans feel sorry for you….. it’s time to make some drastic changes coach or YOU will be the next thing that goes.
San Anselmo
October 1st, 2012
3:54 pm
Jackets Detective, it’s good to commiserate with someone who remembers that Falcons loss in the 1980 season playoffs (the game was played on Jan 4, 1981). That loss still hurts for me. It was particularly painful for me at the time as Tech had such a terrible season that year – one loss and one tie, as I recollect. The one tie was even bittersweet as it was over then #1 Notre Dame and allowed UGA to step into the #1 position. The Falcons-Cowboys game came just days after UGA beat ND to take the national championship (in a game in which neither UGA nor ND played very well). The Falcons were my sunshine that fall and early winter and they folded like a cheap suit. A total dereliction of duty.
Supersize that order, mutt
October 1st, 2012
3:54 pm
@ USMC……for starters, somebody needs to teach them how to TACKLE. A guy sitting behind me at the game said his nephew had attended football camps at Tech, and the emphasis was not on tackling, but on stripping the ball. Forget the damn ball; get the runner on the ground.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
3:55 pm
Grinch:
Let’s see: VT overtime INT? blame the defense
Miami overtime misread on 4th down? blame the defense
MTSU missing 2 wide open guys for TDs with underthrown ducks? Get FOUR yards on NINETEEN carries (not a typo)? Under .500 on 3rd down conversions? blame the defense.
I swear, Tevin gets more free passes than anyone in sports history.
USMC Dawg
October 1st, 2012
3:55 pm
“My question is this: how will we know that Vad is ready? Are we waiting for a sign from God? And if he’s not ready now, why do you think he’ll be ready Fall 2013?”
Obviously CPJ sees the kid everyday in practice, so he probably knows which of the QB’s is best suited to run his offense.
I think some of you Tech fans just like Vad Lee’s ketchy name. How do you know the kid is better than Tevin?
We thought the same thing at UGA with Mettenburg and Aaron Murray. Everyone liked Mettenburg because of his size and questioned CMR. Well we now see that CMR knew which QB was better. (not to forget that Mettenburg did himself in off the field as well)
My point is let the coach.. COACH. You hired him to come do a job at least let him do the job.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
3:57 pm
Seriously folks. Tevin got 4 yards on 19 carries.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
4:01 pm
USMC: Tevin is 11-12 as QB. Tevin has made Reggie Ball-esque mistakes to cost us games. and he just rushed for 4 yards on 19 carries. Against UGA last year he was 3-10 with 2 INTs.
Meanwhile, Vad is 6-9 for 131 yards and a TD, 226 passer rating, has 19 rushes with an AVERAGE of 10 yards per carry and 3 TDs.
Does that help?
Supersize that order, mutt
October 1st, 2012
4:01 pm
Joe, not arguing with you here, but regarding the defense, were you aware that prior to Saturday’s game, that MTSU RB had produced 91 yards on 40-something carries? And yet Saturday he gained more than 200 yards against Tech. Regardless of what Tevin did or didn’t do, the defense screwed up that game all on their own.
USMC Dawg
October 1st, 2012
4:01 pm
“@ USMC……for starters, somebody needs to teach them how to TACKLE. A guy sitting behind me at the game said his nephew had attended football camps at Tech, and the emphasis was not on tackling, but on stripping the ball. Forget the damn ball; get the runner on the ground”
That’s sort of what I was alluding to by getting back to basics. These kids are lacking fundamentals and it’s obvious. I scream at my Bulldogs all of the time because they lack a lot of fundamentals; however, they (get lucky and) make up for it with shear talent most of the time. (drives me crazy!)
I would love to go knock on CPJ’s door and take a junior position on the Defensive side of the ball and get these kids motivated.
Okay, I will wake up and get back to reality. LOL!
Go Dawgs!
Dumbo
October 1st, 2012
4:02 pm
Bilbo – Al Ciraldo didn’t turn over in his grave…he bellows from the grave “Toe Meets Butt, It’s Git” …CAG is complaining how his butt is sore.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
4:03 pm
After the VT game I polled the blog:
Would you rather see Tech go 8-4 with Tevin or 7-5 with Vad.
New Poll:
Would you rather see Tech go 4-8 with Tevin or 7-5 with Vad?
Supersize that order, mutt
October 1st, 2012
4:03 pm
@ USMC…….you seem to be an ok dawg; we don’t see too many like you on the Tech blogs.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
4:07 pm
Super: Yet another pass for Tevin. I wonder if Tevin just got 50 yards on those 19 carries, instead of 4, if we could have won.
Think about it. 4 yards on 19 carries is basically throwing away 19 offensive plays. It’s like playing with only 3 downs instead of 4.
THWG
October 1st, 2012
4:09 pm
This is how Tech plays when they don’t have the players. Fire PJ and the entire coaching staff and start from scratch. They should pursue Mario Cristobal from FIU.
Supersize that order, mutt
October 1st, 2012
4:09 pm
Joe……I didn’t mean that as a pass on Tevin. But the fact remains that the D lost that game. Anyway, I am outta here for awhile. I got to go to the gym so I can get in shape and take over from both Tevin and Vad on Saturday…….LOL
USMC Dawg
October 1st, 2012
4:18 pm
“@ USMC…….you seem to be an ok dawg; we don’t see too many like you on the Tech blogs”
Thanks Supersize!
People who go to blogs to voice their happiness in another team’s failure are usually LOSERS in my book.
I was born and raised in Atlanta and like Tech (except that one day of the year).
I also like what CPJ has brought to Tech. Let’s face it, Chan was a nice man and good recruiter, but he was NOT a good X’s and O’s football coach.
fuzzybee78
October 1st, 2012
4:24 pm
Defense, Defense, Defense!
Even with 4 turnovers we should have won 28-24.
We were missing 4 starters on D and got schemed — but we still should have given up field goals not TD’s. Our second teamers were not ready for prime time. The D looked like they didnt care late, that hurt!
Offense,
4 turnovers plus dropped passes and stupid penalties and poor pass blocking at critical times. TW had very little to do with any of that, but he sure cant athletically overcome it either. Vad alone would not have overcome the other issues, but he needs to play more yes. Our WR need to be drilled over and over and over to catch with their hands, they know how to block.
Coaching,
I dont hate anybody. I respect CAG as a class guy and a man who knows his craft. That said, its clear the 3-4 even with the gap change and nickel package variation arent working. Is it scheme or players, probably both. Players have to make plays, coaches cant do it for um.
CPJ baring a losing season is not going anywhere. I think he needs to evolve his offense more to the players strengths he has. Are you interested in winning or simply proving the system works if everybody blocks it Perfectly. Dont waste Vad because he cant run the system perfectly. System has to change some if we are to compete with anybody especially top 25 programs.
USMC Dawg
October 1st, 2012
4:27 pm
Coach Paul Johnson is going NOWHERE, folks.
And be careful what you wish for.
You are a good defense away from being a great team in the ACC.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
4:32 pm
Fuzzy: You obviously missed two deep passes that Tevin underthrew. WRs had their man beat, they were TDs. You also must have missed Tevin’s 4 yards rushing on 19 carries. Finally, you clearly missed Tevin leading us to 6-13 on 3rd down conversions.
Did you miss Tevin’s INT in OT at VT? Did you miss the misread in OT that cost us the Miami game? Did you miss his 3-10 with 2 INTs vs. UGA last year? Have you been asleep during his 11-12 record as starter?
MaconGTFan
October 1st, 2012
4:36 pm
@Joe You asked how do we know Vad is not ready? Did you watch the game? Bad came in for one series and read the option wrong on everyplay. He handed it off for the dive twice when he should have kept and pitched (even Wakes old QB called em out for it) and the one time he kept and pitched he should have handed it off. I do think Vad should be starting, but he’s just not ready and I don’t our line will hold up for 20+ passing attempts a game.
MaconGTFan
October 1st, 2012
4:37 pm
Vad not bad.
joel
October 1st, 2012
4:40 pm
Bad team. Poor coaching. Players have quit !!! 35,000 empty seats will welcome them back at the Boston College game. I will be one of the “empty seats”.
Buzzed-for-Life
October 1st, 2012
4:41 pm
Can’t you people realize Georgia Tech’s academic rigors are much more stringent than every other college in the United States. We just cannot be expected to compete on a high level week in and week out. It is impossible for us to compete with the Alabama’s and MTSU’s of college football and keep up academically too.
Just be thankful we have a Head Football Coach whose intelligence is on par with our boys on the gridiron. It has been well documented that CPJ is always the smartest coach on the sidelines.
I’m calling for EVERY Georgia Tech fan to support CPJ and his team of Einstein’s. And to embrace who we are instead of who we are not,
We are Georgia Tech!!!!
Born2Buzz
October 1st, 2012
4:43 pm
GT Joe, do you think maybe the D is laying down because of CPJ’s insistence on keeping Vad on the bench?
I have the utmost respect for Tevin as a student athlete, but the sample size is big enough to know what the results will be with him on the field.
Time for a change.
And time for a change with Al G as well. But I liked the idea of not doing it until after the Clemons game. Wait until we get smoked by the Dabodoos and then let him go over the bye week.
But I can’t for the life of me figure out why CPJ sticks with TW.
And Super, in an earlier blog, you said something about Vad looking horrible in the 1st half. He was in for one series, they ran the dive play 3 times for no gain and he threw 2 completions to get one 1st down. He wasn’t horrible.
joel
October 1st, 2012
4:47 pm
If our players are so smart, why do we seem to make stupid mistakes every week. Ex: Safety on a kickoff in the Miami game. Ex: Reggie Ball throws football out of bounds on 4th down ( Uga game).
We need to admit our players are just not as athletic as most other teams we play.
MaconGTFan
October 1st, 2012
4:47 pm
@Born2Buzz Those weren’t dive plays Vad was running. He just read the option wrong on all three downs in that series. Bad may have the arm, but he doesn’t have the know how as of yet to run the tripple option. No QB will see the field in this offense if they can’t run the tripple option.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
4:49 pm
Macon: Yes, i hear many folks say Vad isn’t ready. Kid was 4-4 passing, 2 rushes for 23 yards, Saturday. His two drives went a total of 72 yards, one ended by the clock. Can’t wait to see his stats when you think he IS ready.
And by the way, what will need to happen for you to think he IS ready?
Jmonty
October 1st, 2012
4:50 pm
For the most part CPJ’s offense works… We are always in the top 5 or so in rushing in the nation. However; when the “D” stinks it up and the DC doesn’t know what he is doing and looks lost, it causes trouble. It is really unfair to ask the offense to score on each and every time they have the ball. But, the “D” is so bad, they really need to. “no show” should be fired… He isn’t aggressive. Therefore; the players aren’t. If you coach cupcake…you get cupcake. I understand we don’t have the 4 and 5 star players lining up and down the field. However; they are far from 1 star players. They have enough ability to do better. If the players don’t have faith in the coach they play very tenatively. I see that… In each and every game I see that. Have the players given up? I almost think so. They have no belief in Al Groh.. Nobody in their right mind has belief in Al Groh. Why does CPJ have it? Does he regret hiring Groh… I think so. But, he is too arrogant to admit the error. I think he needs to step off the gas pedal and look around. The “D” and the players are suffering due to “no show”’s ignorance. I honestly feel sorry for the players. They get blamed for bad play calling.
MaconGTFan
October 1st, 2012
4:51 pm
Aight Joe, now give me the stats on Vad in that game when there wasn’t a minute left and the game WAS over. Hell even Synjin came in last year vs uga when the game was over and put up good stats. Vad can’t run the option yet and this line CAN’T pass protect good enough.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
4:52 pm
Born: I can tell you that it would be hard to get “up” for a game knowing that you have a sorry QB. Now, the team did vote Tevin as team captain on Saturday, so I can’t figure what’s going on in the players heads.
But have you ever notices that when a new QB comes onto the scene, EVERYBODY gets a spark, even the defense? Game is 95% mental.
fuzzybee78
October 1st, 2012
4:52 pm
GT Joe, I havent missed anything every season since 1960.
I understand TW limitations. You think VL is Superman/Spiderman/and The Hulk rolled together while ignoring all the other issues and we have other issues. We simply disagree on how big an impact VL would have TODAY. He cant catch his own passes and he doesnt play D. I have said many times he is the most athletic QB ever recruited to GT and he needs to play more. I dont believe he would have scored 50 points on MTSU and thats what it would have taken with our other issues.
War Jacket
October 1st, 2012
4:53 pm
Seems to me that the coaches have lost the team. The defense has just given up. More proof coming Saturday.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
4:54 pm
Macon: pass protected enough for Vad to go 4-4.
Vad misread EVERY play in the 1st quarter? Even the 5 yard gain by Laskey? Nice misread… if only Tevin’s misreads were so successful.
MaconGTFan
October 1st, 2012
4:55 pm
And also Joe, Vads first drive ended in a 3 and out because he doesn’t know how to read the option. Every stat you gave was garbage time with a minute left to go with ABSOLUTELY zero chance to win. Those stats are useless. You have zero argument for Vad except he might be better cause of a YouTube video with him in high school.
Father A. Long
October 1st, 2012
4:55 pm
Be prepared for more fans to jump out of the stands.