Fitting MTSU loss into Tech history
In case you wanted more torment, I attempted to place Saturday’s 49-28 loss to Middle Tennessee State in Georgia Tech’s bad loss history. As some of you probably know better than I do, it’s historically bad. You could argue it’s worse than the 17-14 Furman loss in 1983, as the margin of defeat was greater and I don’t know that much was expected from that team.
The losses were based on two criteria – that the opponent be a lesser-caliber team and margin of victory. It excludes costly ACC losses or losses to Georgia, but my thinking is that a loss to Georgia or an ACC team (or opponents of the other leagues Tech has belonged to in the past) is more understandable than a loss to a team from the Sun Belt Conference or, in the case of Furman, an FCS team. I’m distinguishing between a bad loss and a costly or emotionally painful loss. Miami was costly. MTSU was bad.
“Lesser caliber” is difficult to determine, particularly the further you go back. The Sagaran rating for the 1902 St. Albans team is not readily accessible, for example. (Much of the information, particularly about opponents, is from websites that I deem to be reasonably reliable.)
1983 – 17-14 loss to Furman. The Paladins were, and are, an FCS (or I-AA) team, so would be even less expected to beat Tech than MTSU was. It remains Tech’s only loss to an FCS-level team. (The Jackets tied Furman in 1986.)
1981 – 28-15 loss to Memphis. (then Memphis State) The Tigers were an independent so I don’t know how you’d categorize them, but they were pretty rancid. Memphis (State) scored more than 13 points only once that season, and that was against Tech in its only win of the season. Tech also went 1-10 after opening the season with a win over No. 4 Alabama in Birmingham in Bill Curry’s second season. I know some about that game, but that’s a tough one to understand.
1968 – 35-14 loss to Navy. The Midshipmen were 2-8 against a rigorous independent schedule. They beat Tech in November, part of a four-game losing streak to end Bud Carson’s second season after the retirement of Bobby Dodd. Navy’s only other win was over Pittsburgh. Tech was 4-6.
From this point to the beginning of the century, Tech’s schedule was almost exclusively comprised of teams on its level, and the Jackets beat just about all of the more suspect outfits.
1902 – 17-0 loss to St. Albans (Va.). St. Albans lost to Virginia 15-0 and 10-0 to N.C. State and tied Furman 0-0, according to sports-reference.com, just two days after beating Tech at Brisbine Park. That Tech team was 0-6-2 under the leadership of Coach John McKee and captain Bully Young, so it’s hard to call this a bad loss, given that the Jackets weren’t very good, as was the case of most of Tech’s first teams. McKee did not return for the 1903 season, after which John Heisman became coach. Brisbine Park, possibly Brisbane Park, was about eight blocks west of where Turner Field now stands.
1900 – 23-0 loss to Nashville. I believe this is the University of Nashville, which Wikipedia says closed in 1909. Nashville lost to Auburn 28-0 and 18-0 to Vanderbilt that season. Tech was 0-4 that season and was outscored 107-6. Games were played at Piedmont Park.
Ken Sugiura, Georgia Tech blog
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243 comments Add your comment
Bad, but
October 1st, 2012
1:52 pm
GT Fan,
Yes the ball was under thrown, no doubt. If you watch close you will see that the receiver also had his hands on the ball and could have made the catch as well as the defender. Yes, had the ball been thrown a slightly farther distance the defender would have not had a shot at it. But, like I said the receiver could very well have caught the pass also. I’m not saying every pass was thrown accurately, as you and I know they were not.
Jacket Attack
October 1st, 2012
1:52 pm
Tuitt is a mama’s boy that wanted to go to tech but his mama wouldnt let him!
The Ugly truth
October 1st, 2012
1:53 pm
Don’t forget the beating Tech took from Utah in the Emerald Nut Bowl when no one had really heard of Utah.
Don’t forget the beating Tech took from Fresno State in the Silicon Valley Bowl when no one had heard of Fresno State.
Don’t forget the beating Tech took from Fresno State in the Humanitarian Bowl when we barely knew about Fresno State.
Don’t forget the beating Tech took from Air Force in the Independence Bowl which ran the same offense as Tech.
Shall I go on?
Old GA boy
October 1st, 2012
1:53 pm
Tech has no Defense because of the offense they run. They never practice against a traditional college offense. If you can’t practice against it then how can you be expected to stop it on Saturday.
Jacket Detective
October 1st, 2012
1:54 pm
@Jacket Attack.
Good speech.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
1:54 pm
Detective: Recruiting is not the issue. Look at 2010. Nesbitt gets hurt, and Tevin promptly loses 4 of the last 5 WITH GAILEY’S RECRUITS.
And yes, I’m mad at CPJ for not opening his eyes to the fact that Tevin is a horrible athlete.
Who Says,
October 1st, 2012
1:55 pm
Enter your comments here
atl urinal and constipation reader
October 1st, 2012
1:55 pm
I agree, I think this loss was worse than the one to Furman because the 1983 Tech team was expected to be bad. For what it is worth Middle Tenn. is 3-1 but their loss is from an FCS school.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
1:57 pm
CPJ is to blame for Vad not starting LAST YEAR. I get that he wants to redshirt folks, save up talent for the future. But meanwhile, we just threw away our 2nd season on Tevin (and are wasting a full year of eligibility for Vad at the same time).
Who Says,
October 1st, 2012
1:58 pm
Who says, the GT defense practices against the GT offense? Doesn’t practices take place against a scout team who attempts to replicate the team’s offense & defense GT is to play the next game?
Someone help me out on this?
Jacket Detective
October 1st, 2012
1:59 pm
You’re wrong Joe.
Thomas, Morgan, Dwyer and Burnett left after the 2009 season.
NC State and a terrible Kansas team beat us while Nesbitt was the QB in 2010.
Nesbitt spent the NC State game running for his life.
The defense looked as terrible in that game as they have this season.
NO improvement.
That’s on Groh & CPJ.
Tech Fan Since 1950
October 1st, 2012
2:00 pm
I wasn’t around in 1900 and 1902, but I did see the losses to Furman (my son went to school there and they had a really good team that year), to Navy in1968 (really cold day with sleet), and the 1981 game against Memphis State. Last Saturday’s loss to MTSU was by far the worst loss at Grant Field that I personally haver seen due to the ramifications of Tech’s current status. I do want to give credit to MTSU because they deserved the victory and I think they will turn out to be a pretty good team despite their first loss to McNease State. Three years ago Tech went to a defense they did not have the personnel to play. It takes time to recruit and grow the huge defensive linemen and linebackers required. There remains nothing wrong with the Tech offense except a few more passes. It is time Saturday to throw Vad Lee to the Tigers! It is sink or swim time for Tech.
Jacket Detective
October 1st, 2012
2:02 pm
Thomas – 1st round
Morgan – 1st round
Burnett – 3rd round
Dwyer – 5th round but was hurt by rumors than slow 40 yard time.
Tech never has two players go in the first round.
Tell me when that has happened.
It is rare enough to have one Jacket in the 1st round.
Even with those players and Nesbit, we lost to Uga at home in 2009.
That is when we learned CPJ wasn’t that great a coach.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
2:03 pm
Sorry Detective. Didn’t realize that all of Gailey’s recruits left after 2009. Didn’t know that Gailey only recruited those 3 players you mentioned. LOL.
5-3 with Nesbitt that year. 1-4 with Tevin that year. Same damn team. Is it not clear how bad Tevin is?
Jacket Attack
October 1st, 2012
2:03 pm
@ Gt Joe,
Think about what your saying, Would you really want vad behind that o-line? I watched kidney over and over on Saturday let the linebacker or DE from middle tenn run right by him and kill tevin numerous times. I guess its tevins fought for not throwing td passes from his back? This is nuts you guys want to fire the coaches, change qbs, and let all the freshman play. Lets fix the problem what you say and that starts in the trenches on both sides. Im no coach but if you can block and tackle and get push up front you usally have sucess.
Jacket Attack
October 1st, 2012
2:06 pm
@Jacket Detective yeah that was PJ’s fought in 2009 you know I seen him run on the field and slap the ball right out of bey’s bey’s hands! I swear you guys got to stop downgrading our team and our coaches and players.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
2:06 pm
Attack: Yes, i WOULD MUCH rather have Vad behind that line than Tevin. Vad can make plays with his feet. Tevin cannot. Vad can pass. Tevin cannot.
Tevin is a sitting duck behind that line. Vad can at least make an individual play once in a while (a la nesbitt).
Are you saying you would rather have Tevin behind a weak o-line? LOL. Okay.
Jacket Time
October 1st, 2012
2:07 pm
Hate to quote Saban but the great motivators are disappointment and defeat. Lets hope (however as we know too well that as GT fans our hope usually gets crushed) this loss wakes the team up. Like when Dream team coach chuck daly threw the scrimmage game against the college team.
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
2:09 pm
Attack: not to mention, a decent passing game takes pressure off the o-line, makes the defense respect that pass.
With Tevin? defenses just pin their ears back and dare us to throw. And you see the results.
DOC 51
October 1st, 2012
2:11 pm
GT passing attack stinks period.Greene dropped 2 huge passes ,and TW underthrew him on one that could have been a TD.S.DAYS,VAD LEE,AND SNODDY LOOK GOOD over there in their baseball caps.Maybe they will be ready in another 3 yrs.
Jacket Detective
October 1st, 2012
2:13 pm
@Jacket Time.
There is a chance we’ll regroup.
We could be a dangerous team because we now have nothing to lose and can take every gamble if we choose to.
4 or 5
October 1st, 2012
2:13 pm
different outcomes to plays and we are undefeated, ranked in the top ten and packing our bags for a BCS bowl. We are that close to being a very dominate program. Looking at our roster I only see two or three players that are not equal to any of the mutts.
Buuuzzzzzz………….buuuuuzzzz goes the alarm clock…………shocking me from me dream………..back to reality. We don’t have ONE player that would make the two deep UGA roster in fact I don’t see a single player that could supplant anyone on the teams we have played or ar scheduled to play. We are truly that bad
.
AntoineFord
October 1st, 2012
2:14 pm
Maybe it was karma from the Cumberland game.
RambleOn84
October 1st, 2012
2:14 pm
The team quit, but so did Coach Johnson.
When Tevin went back on the field after that horrendous INT, I knew Coach gave up on the game. We’re in a situation where we HAVE to pass, and our best passer is standing on the sidelines. You can’t tell me Johnson didn’t give up there.
Jacket Detective
October 1st, 2012
2:17 pm
Tell me how GT and Nesbitt lost to a terrible Kansas team in 2010.
Kansas is a basketball school and seldom is any good at football.
That 2010 Kansas team was crushed by everyone else they played.
Jacket Time
October 1st, 2012
2:18 pm
Thats my thought detective. I hope we don’t regroup too soon though it’d be nice to have uga greatly underestimate us. Lets be honest that is the only game that really matters at this point. I feel like if we surprise clemson again it really doesn’t mean much… Been there done that last year and we know what came of that.
OkieDawg
October 1st, 2012
2:18 pm
Even as a Dawg, I will not kick a team when they are down. GT is a better team than showed up against MTSU. It was a let down after a very disappointing loss to Miami. That happens sometimes. I am pulling for the Techies and wish them good luck against Clemson. Go get those Tigers!
Jacket Time
October 1st, 2012
2:22 pm
Thanks for the uplift okiedawg. Its so hard to be positive right now. We’re all just crushed.
Ramble what I can tell you
October 1st, 2012
2:22 pm
is I remember ALL the Techsters proclaiming “there’s a new sheriff in town” – “nobody can stop the T.O.” – “CPJ is a freaking genius”, “CPJ is the smartest / best coach in America” – “we don’t need 4 or 5 star recruits CPJ can COACH THEM UP” I could continue for hours but my fingers would be flat from the typing
juvenal
October 1st, 2012
2:22 pm
here we go again-time for the rich guys that run tech athletics to step in…since the problem is coaches getting fat contracts for fluke years, and then having to pay big bucks to get rid of them, let’s hope they dig deep & get rid of the real problem-go to the prez & fire drad!
Mike S.
October 1st, 2012
2:26 pm
I dont think Vlad is going to make a difference really. People were calling for Washington during Nesbitt’s senior year too. Vlad will likely start playing if the season really unravels from here. Defensively, Tech is awful. Offensively, there has been no consistency at all against Va Tech, Miami, or MTSU. Spurts of greatness here and there, but thats it.
I wouldnt be too hard on the passing game. These guys are not drilled for it. Ideally, Tech should rarely be dropping back to pass at all under Johnson. Its no surprise it looked a bit lack luster. Reminded me of the Orange bowl when they abandoned the run with Nesbitt at QB.
Jacket Time
October 1st, 2012
2:26 pm
Ramble i’d say maybe about half said that. Especially after beating a really good UGA team in 2008. I mean how could we not think that? The dargs were preseason #1 and we put 45 pts agai st a strong SEC defense of course we would think that.
Losing Season?
October 1st, 2012
2:31 pm
Show of hands….who thinks Tech will beat Clemson, Boston College, BYU, North Carolina, Georgia? Duke is playing better too. Does not bode well for the overall record. Is a coaching change in the future with a losing season? Can anyone really exceed at Tech given the curriculum, etc.
Spike
October 1st, 2012
2:36 pm
GT Bob, Supersize, St. Simons… A penny for your thoughts……
Ain't Gonna Happen
October 1st, 2012
2:37 pm
Forget the fire CPJ crap. That WILL NOT, repeat WILL NOT take place any time soon. And, it SHOULDN’T. Period end of story. I will continue to believe in him, at least through this year and next anyway. IMO he will get the job done!!! However, CAG, I don’t think he will be at GT next year. His days and experiment are numbered. I am concerned who his replacement might be. Does GT want to pay the kind of money a top notch DC will want and will a top DC want a job at GT with all of the academic recruiting constraints. May be at best GT can find a young up and comer as a DC. We’ll see.
Bottom line is: I am not ready to throw in the towel on CPJ and this team, not yet. Not for a least another year. I STILL BELIEVE.
Dan
October 1st, 2012
2:49 pm
One more to consider for the list: Tech lost to VMI 14-13 in 1950. That’s Virginia Military, not VPI. VMI coach Nugent had created the then-new “I” formation, and Tech was its second victim. VMI picked up over 400 yards that day. That was the only time VMI defeated Tech in 15 games over the years.
Jacket Time
October 1st, 2012
2:52 pm
Agreed its not CPJ’s time YET. I’ve been a long time supporter but man after next season if we’re not playing up to our potential, it is going to be hard to support him. I still have a faint bit a faith. This loss was a tough pill to swallow and i hesitant to hold my breath but you know you got to see how it all pays out and i’m not ready to give up entirely just yet.
Way To Go
October 1st, 2012
2:53 pm
As a bulldog fan, there is not many times I go out of the way to congratulate Tech fans. However, history has been made and a congratulations is definitely in order. Hooray for Tech!
Bill
October 1st, 2012
2:55 pm
I was present at the Furman loss and tie. My parents were Furman alumni and the Paladins were very good in those years, swapping NC’s with Ga Southern in 1-AA. This weekend was far worse!
Jacket Time
October 1st, 2012
2:56 pm
I understand though why pple are calling for CPJ’s head:
All the world loves a winner and has no time for a loser (again sorry to quote another coach, a ND one at that)
But we know which side of the former phrase we’re leaning towards.
Jacket Time
October 1st, 2012
3:01 pm
Well way to go i also rejoice at uga’s failures because of fans like you so go ahead rub it in. You won’t see me on your blog though after y’all lose another nonconference game/SEC championship. I just will have a silent satisfaction knowing you’re throwing your TV out the window and cursing your arse off.
DS CE'91
October 1st, 2012
3:02 pm
I was a freshman at the 1986 tie – that one stung, but Saturday was far worse…..
Way To Go
October 1st, 2012
3:06 pm
@Jacket Time…Being rivals we have to give it to each other every once in a while. And just so you know I do a lot of cursing even when we’re winning. I don’t call them the “cardiac kids” for nothing. They always make us sweat a little.
DS CE'91
October 1st, 2012
3:06 pm
OK, GT Joe, you’ve worn me down – bring on the VAD LEE ERA!!!
I just hope he can tackle and defend the intermediate pass routes…..
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
3:09 pm
CPJ with Tevin: 11-12 record
without Tevin: 25-8
Any questions?
Technically Correct
October 1st, 2012
3:13 pm
Time for some more “Hope and Change,” guys?
DS CE'91
October 1st, 2012
3:14 pm
GT Joe,
None from me. All I want is for the Jackets to win. I hope you are right, and that CPJ uses the young man effectively.
GO JACKETS!!!
Supersize that order, mutt
October 1st, 2012
3:17 pm
Joe…..I think it’s time Vad got more of a chance too, but tell me something…….what are you going to say if Vad gets out there and the same things happen to him that happen to Tevin, or he too underthrows a pass that gets intercepted and run back for a TD? There is no guarantee that that won’t happen with him too. Remember, PART of Tevin’s problems (not all, but part) are due to ineffective blocking by the line. That’s not going to change with a new QB. We know what Vad CAN do, but we certainly do not know how he will respond in a game-on-the-line type situation. What happens if he falls flat on his face then too?
GT Joe
October 1st, 2012
3:22 pm
Super: Vad might fail, but he has an excuse. Just as we gave Nesbitt a pass when he was learning the system, and TW a pass when he went 1-4 to close 2010.
I would have rather seen Vad fail than TW against MTSU. TW failing does absolutely nothing for our future, he’s gone after this year.
As for ineffective blocking, I saw Tevin tentative in the pocket, late throwing the ball, making the OL block for a few seconds longer than they need to, making the OL look bad. And even if the OL is bad (which I don’t think it is), Vad can make plays scrambling that Tevin simply can’t.
USMC Dawg
October 1st, 2012
3:23 pm
As a Dawg fan, I also like for Tech to do well(except that one day a year).
I think this loss really stings because it comes just one week after the disappointing loss to Miami where you had the game won and GAVE it away in the 4th quarter and overtime.
I also think that CPJ does NOT like to pass the ball(obviously), and what is disturbing the rhythm of the offense this year is CPJ trying to placate fans by incorporating a pass scheme into the Triple Option offense. Think about it. Tech’s offense for the last 4 years that CPJ has been HC has racked up some REALLY gaudy numbers and victories.
It’s the DEFENSE that has been Paul Johnson’s Achilles Heel. SO instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, someone, “D-RAD!”, needs to help CPJ go out and get a DECENT D-Coordinator after the season is over.
CPJ also needs to step up a bit in recruiting. Have you seen our two freshmen runningbacks named “Gurshall”??? You have got to bring in higher calibre talent and don’t tell me you can’t at Tech because of the curriculum. Stanford anyone???
Go Dawgs!