Paul Johnson rips oversigning practice
Speaking at a news conference Friday, Georgia Tech coach Paul Johnson made clear his thoughts on oversigning in recruiting, a topic that has gained buzz this week because of Alabama’s pulling a scholarship offer for 2012 from North Atlanta High running back Justin Taylor.
Johnson is not in favor of it, a stance he has taken in the past. The matter came up when he decried the practice of high school prospects committing to a school but then continuing to fish for better scholarship offers. He made an analogy to illustrate his opinion.
“That’s like (if) we go out there, we’ve got 15 commitments and we just keep recruiting over the top of them,” Johnson said. “Now, people do that, but not many. And then they just come back and they tell ‘em, ‘Hey, sorry, you’ll have to come next year. You’ll have to come in the spring. We found somebody better than you. We oversigned.’ That’s wrong. And it’s wrong on both sides. It’s just wrong.”
Taylor committed to Alabama last February, becoming the seventh player in the Crimson Tide’s 2012 class. However, Taylor missed his senior season with a knee injury and Alabama has taken 27 commitments, two over the limit. In an interview with the Journal-Constitution, Taylor said Alabama coach Nick Saban told him Alabama couldn’t sign him because the 25-player class was full, and instead offered him a signed piece of paper guaranteeing him a spot in the 2013 class. Taylor is reportedly considering other options.
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115 comments Add your comment
HighTech
January 20th, 2012
3:57 pm
I’m glad Coach Johnson takes a stand against this practice.
Bobby C
January 20th, 2012
4:12 pm
Nick Saban = Urban Meyer = Les Miles = Jim Calhoun = John Calipari = Snake Oil Salesman. Dirt bags one and all.
Jacket Man
January 20th, 2012
4:13 pm
Not only does Paul Johnson not over sign, he holds scholarships to give players who make the varsity 2-Deep squad that didn’t have scholarships. There are several players now on the team who came as preferred walkons, or just guys who wanted to walkon to the team, who have been awarded scholarships. This happened because Coach Johnson is honorable.
The Coach Paul Johnson Way
January 20th, 2012
4:21 pm
WOW! This is why I has set up a blog just for extolling the virtues of our head coach. It is launched today. I am sick and tired of the haters flooding the ajc comments. This will be a place for you to write your comments and hopefully articles about CPJ and his handling of the program. Google “Coach Paul Johnson Way” and email me. Contributors wanted.
Blue Pants
January 20th, 2012
4:22 pm
Jacket Man, you seem to be in the know. Is it possible for the jackets to sign 20 or 21 this year?
WNZ
January 20th, 2012
4:34 pm
Isnt this the exact reason why Tech left the SEC way back when? Bama and most others in the SEC were continuing this practice of oversigning and screwing over the players that were cut?
GT oversigning = Oxymoron
January 20th, 2012
4:37 pm
Let’s be realistic. It is not like GT has very many 4 and 5 star recruits, or recruits in general for that matter, dying to come to the Flats. UGA’s struggles in recent years have reduced the appeal of playing for CMR as well. You do have to respect both CPJ and CMR for taking a stand against oversigning though.
OkieDawg
January 20th, 2012
4:52 pm
No way GT oversigns. Do you realize how hard it is to find 20 – 25 guys a year that want to play for a team that runs the Triple Option. Heck, this year alone CPJ had to scour every corner of the earth to find recruits. He has found two guys from outside N.A.and is looking for more. Oversigning, are you kidding me?
Island Dawg
January 20th, 2012
4:55 pm
I applaud your Coach.
Mad Dog One
January 20th, 2012
5:07 pm
Hate to have to say it but here goes. WAY TO GO CPJ YOU DO YOUR SCHOOL PROUD
Dog Man
January 20th, 2012
5:07 pm
Very sad to see Dawg fans not realizing it doesn’t matter if a kid is a 5 star or a 1 star. The point is the kid is a person who made a commitment and set his future around that commitment. Now Saban cavalierly dissolves that commitment. Poor choice on the coach’s part.
Always a Jacket
January 20th, 2012
5:14 pm
It’s not just Saban, what about Dooley at UT? or Miles at LSU? The SEC needs to enforce their new rule, otherwise other SEC schools are at disadvantage.
George Stein
January 20th, 2012
5:15 pm
His position on oversigning is the reason I support him on yanking the offer when the kids go visit other schools.
I applaud our coach for his position on this. I’d applaud him again if he hired a special teams coordinator.
George Stein
January 20th, 2012
5:17 pm
The SEC rule is that you can sign 25 players a year, Always. Think of it this way: last year Bama had 73 players on scholarship at the end of the season. They signed 22 players. They are within the SEC rule. But the NCAA caps the scholarships at 85, which means they had 10 more players than they could have under NCAA rules, which meant that at least 10 players got kicked to the curb.
trupert
January 20th, 2012
5:19 pm
Saban will do ANYTHING to gain any advantage he can. Saban cares about Saban and nothing else. Why these kids and their families keep falling for it is beyond me.
Why the NCAA hasn’t come down on Alabama for the T-Town Menswear scandel, and Trent Richardson’s free gifts, SUV, etc, suggest the NCAA is corrupt.
The NCAA could keep predators like Saban from this if they wanted to. The money must be too good.
Big A
January 20th, 2012
5:20 pm
Nick Saban told him Alabama couldn’t sign him because the 25-player class was full, and instead offered him a signed piece of paper guaranteeing him a spot in the 2013 class. Seems like this should be breaking some sort of NCAA rule. Might as well let him sign as many as he wants.
Go Jackets!
January 20th, 2012
5:22 pm
CPJ is gruff and to the point but recruits with honor. Maybe it’s old fashion. My guess is CMR would agree with him.
Go Jackets!
January 20th, 2012
5:26 pm
I’d certainly “trust” a signed piece of paper from Nick Saban. It’s like money in the bank. Wait? What? Is it a check? Sorry, I don’t know enough about the piece of paper in question.
Alabama and GT Fan
January 20th, 2012
5:28 pm
I love both schools. That said, Alabama wins championships within the bounds of the rules. I suggest CPJ get on board if he wants to win more than he is currently.
Analogy: GT offense is taught to jump across the line if a defender moves before the snap to draw an offsides penalty. This is GT using the rules to their advantage, though many teams don’t teach this.
George Stein
January 20th, 2012
5:30 pm
Except that a 17 year old doesn’t get screwed if Tech jumps offsides, Alabama & GT Fan.
bb
January 20th, 2012
5:50 pm
The new SEC rule is a joke. It was just lip-service to attempt to remove the bad image that many national observers have of SEC recruiting practices. It really does little to prevent the practice of over-signing. It still allows SEC schools to ’sign’ as many as 28 players each year. The idea is that at least 3 will turn out to be not eligible, so the school will not exceed the 25 limit. However, if all 28 turn out to meet eligibility requirements you have to ‘grey-shirt’ 3 players (this is what is happening to Justin Taylor).
Not only that, but it does nothing to prevent players from getting cut (have there scholarship taking away because they haven’t panned out as expected) in favor of the new recruits. If a team signs 25 players every year, then 15 players will need to be ‘cut’ somewhere along the way.
RocketCityJacket
January 20th, 2012
5:51 pm
AL & GT Fan – “This is GT using the rules to their advantage, though many teams don’t teach this.”
All teams teach this it’s just that some are better than others at implementing it. You have to react quickly to draw the penalty on the defense. A lot of teams are afraid that the ref didn’t see the movement and call the penalty on the offense instead. So they are afraid to react and do nothing.
James
January 20th, 2012
5:51 pm
As a Georgia fan, I applaud Coach Johnson for his stance on the issue.
GT65
January 20th, 2012
5:54 pm
What a stupid analogy..you dealing with a persons life. Do it right.
George Stein
January 20th, 2012
5:57 pm
Bingo, bb.
gtfanfrom1951
January 20th, 2012
5:59 pm
Its time for NCAA to stepup and fix the problem because the SEC has not in 50 years!
bb
January 20th, 2012
5:59 pm
I can’t remember UGA or Alabama or Auburn signing less than 23-24 players in a year (usually they sign the max 25). That means they are getting rid of players that don’t pan out some other way. If you consider red-shirting those schools would be carrying 100-125 players on scholarship at any given time. That to me is oversigning. Realistically, a school should have trouble signing more than 20 players in any given year to stay under the 85 limit.
Conversely, it is rare for Georgia Tech to sign MORE than 20. They just never seem to have the room under the 85 player limit to sign more.
GTForever
January 20th, 2012
6:00 pm
I don’t have a problem with a Coach getting the best players he can. If I need 21 players and I have one who isn’t as good as a new recruit, it is about winning. Business would lay off a poor worker, why can’t a school revoke an offer? I guess I don’t see eye to eye with CPJ and Tech. I guess that is why we are so pathetic on the football field compared to UGA.
Alabama and GT Fan
January 20th, 2012
6:09 pm
GTForever: I agree with you. Business would lay off a worker, whether they are 60 years old or 16. We are talking about college football here, winning and money. Let’s not forget this people.
Alabama and GT Fan
January 20th, 2012
6:12 pm
If it weren’t really about winning and “just a college activity”, we’d be paying someone a lot less than Paul Johnson’s approx. $3 million in salary every year.
Roadrunner
January 20th, 2012
6:25 pm
You can bad mouth Saban all you want but he must be doing something right at Alabama since they are the national champs.
Mark Richt
January 20th, 2012
6:35 pm
I too fully support CPJ in how he chooses to recruit at our little sister school, Georgia Tech.
DesignerJacket
January 20th, 2012
6:37 pm
I support CPJ in his practices and not Saban in his. Why? Well, let’s take the business analogy. In one world you have the opportunity to work for your dream company. This company brings you in and interviews you, you impress them, they verbally offer you a position. After thinking about all the other offers you have you decide this is the place for you. You call them up and say “Ok I’m coming to work for you.” They say “Great! We’re excited to have you. You’ll start in a few months.” and all that’s left to do is sign the papers. You wait until it’s almost time to sign the papers and this business brings you back to sit in front of the President who tells you “Hey, we can’t bring you on right now. Can you wait a year?” You chose not to leverage other offers, because when you both verbally committed to one another you thought it was all a done deal. They went and found someone better. You didn’t know you were still competing for your spot. Now your options are whatever you can get in three weeks or…..you wait the whole year and defer your dream opportunity not even knowing if you can trust that it’ll be solid the second time around.
In the other scenario the business should’ve said “Hey, if you’re committed to us and we’re committed to you, then let the looking around be over for both of us. We’ll see you on signing day with your job waiting for you right as we promised.” It is an issue of honor. If you’ve ever said “A handshake ought to mean something” then CPJ’s way is how you want to do it.
GO JACKETS!
Really?
January 20th, 2012
6:44 pm
bb Despite all the Georgia fans praising coach fish fry, you have to try and compare Coach Mark Richt to that scum bag Saban?!
techies are truly pathetic.
Mark Richt
January 20th, 2012
6:45 pm
DesignerJacket: I’m guessing you haven’t graduated yet and experienced the real world?
Dacula
January 20th, 2012
6:46 pm
I am a huge UGA fan and I want to applaud CPJ for having the gall to tell the truth!!!!! Both schools in this state are represented by good men as their football coaches!
Mark Richt
January 20th, 2012
6:47 pm
Thank you Dacula.
DesignerJacket
January 20th, 2012
6:47 pm
Really?: Look at your own logic, sir. You got angry at one fan’s comment and extrapolated it to all of us. I’d say that’s about as fair as his comment was to Georgia and Auburn. All he did is wonder about something based on numbers. You’re making character statements.
DesignerJacket
January 20th, 2012
6:49 pm
Bad guess, actually. I’m a year out and had an offer to start the day after I walked for my diploma. So yes, I’m green. But I also have a CEO whose handshake means what he says it means. Maybe to learn I’ll go try to work at Bama…
Supersize that order, mutt
January 20th, 2012
6:51 pm
If all scholarships were 4-year scholarships, revokable only if the player leaves school, and not the renewable one-year scholarships that are the norm now, then Bama could never sign 20+ every year. As it is, Saban can find an excuse for revoking (not renewing) a scholarship and always have 20+ openings each year, Of course on top of that nefarious process, he also oversigns, knowing full well that he cannot honor all his “commitments.” That was one of the reasons Dodd pulled Tech from the SEC, because Bear pulled scholarships at will, leaving kids with no financial aid with which to finish their education. Dodd NEVER pulled a scholarship, and it is good to see that Tech still does not pull them. As far as I know, UGA does not do that either.
Dawg Fan for Life
January 20th, 2012
6:54 pm
DesignerJacket: Do me a favor, ask your boss the following hypothetical. “If this company is experiencing extremely hard times, would you ever consider showing me the door.”
I think everyone in America knows what the answer is. “Business is business”.
GT Fan
January 20th, 2012
6:58 pm
@designerjacket
Please stop. I applaud your enthusiasm, but the dawn is right. Any further argument will embarrass yourself and GT for you being green.
George Stein
January 20th, 2012
7:06 pm
UGA, to their credit, does not oversign, Supersize. In the SEC, they along with Florida and Vanderbilt are the only ones that don’t. And all three of those schools are fighting with a hand behind their back in that conference. We should applaud them for recognizing that kids are more important than wins.
GT = Dumpster Fire
January 20th, 2012
7:11 pm
NCAA rules prohibit Division I FBS schools from signing players from more than one continent as well as having more than 10 players in one recruiting class that only had offers from D I FCS and D II and III schools….GT might need to follow up on this.
JDawg1785
January 20th, 2012
7:16 pm
This Dawg fan applauds Coach Johnson for taking a verbal stand against this disgusting practice. Go get ‘em, coach!
Supersize that order, mutt
January 20th, 2012
7:20 pm
George, even though I hate all things UGA, I agree, and I give them credit for their integrity.
Ramblin Man
January 20th, 2012
7:43 pm
I see both sides of the coin and I understand the simple argument that what Saban does works, but is it right? What Banks and loaning institutions did worked for years so are you saying that was good business? I would not have a problem with what Saban does if he was honest with these kids. Don’t tell kids just weeks before signing day you can’t take them. This looks really bad when the kid was your 7th commit and you dump him weeks after getting your 26 and low and behold you play the same position and one is higher rated and now some how the lower rated kid becomes 26. While being honest why not tell the kids who will be cut sometime before August to make the 85 limit now so maybe they could make another team instead of going to play for a lower level or not at all. I have no problem cutting a kid who does not try and stays in trouble, but to cut one to make room because you took to many is a horrible tactic. The coaching staff thought he was good enough to recruit him in the first place and if that kid fails a lot of that fault falls on the coaching staff. I just wonder what the great Saban’s record would look like if he stuck with the kids he recruited in the first place instead of forcing kids out for the next big player.
Dawg48
January 20th, 2012
7:59 pm
Dawg Fan for Life
January 20th, 2012
6:54 pm
DesignerJacket: Do me a favor, ask your boss the following hypothetical. “If this company is experiencing extremely hard times, would you ever consider showing me the door.”
I think everyone in America knows what the answer is. “Business is business”.
This is totally different, besides Bama is not on hard times. Unethical is still unethical no matter how you twist it.
gtkenz
January 20th, 2012
9:12 pm
Good for CPJ, but he’s handicapping himself. Anyone that thinks College athletics is about the student athlete is insane. This is big business, not million, we’re talking billions of dollars.
It makes no difference if you’re Nick Saban, CPJ, or John Doe. Your window for earning millions of dollars for yourself and your family is limited. CPJ may not oversign, but he dadagum well played Bebe in the ACC Title game knowing dadgum well the kid was ineligible. Why do you suppose he did that? Pretty dadgum simple, he needed to win and he didn’t think he could without Bebe. Winning in CPJ’s profession translates into the kind of money most of us will never see. There’s nothing magical about the man. But he does believe in himself and his system. Personally I love the guy as a coach, but I don’t buy one ounce of this BS he’s spewing in this article. As stated, he may not oversign, but it’s probably more out of necessity than a desire not to do so. If CPJ had HS stars all over the country beating down his door for an opportunity the way Saban does, he’d do the same.
No allegence on either side top to bottom and that includes the AD’s, assistant coaches, President’s, and the players. The Peterno, Cox, and Rupp models are obsolete, it’s a dadgum shame, but it’s the truth.
DesignerJacket
January 20th, 2012
9:25 pm
Firing someone is different than my proposed situations, IMHO. If you use my scenario’s firing would take place after hiring. You’ve had some form of career there, which was the only end goal I was discussing in my hypotheticals. It wasn’t gonna be a perfect metaphor anyway, though. For one thing I like to sign contracts when they’re agreed upon…there’s not a gigantic year-long wait for “signing day.” But the situations are close enough to explain an opinion from.
Anyway, I see two philosophies at work here. One says the only real goal of the coach’s job is to get W’s for his school. It’s as if his main role is to be a businessman navigating the business of football (the currency of which is W’s) and not to be someone’s father figure or mentor or caretaker. The other philosophy (the one it seems like the fans wish for) says the coach’s job is to enrich the lives of the young men on his team through the practice of coaching them (and hopefully getting W’s.) It seems like that style is placing the coach’s role as more of a professor of football on the school’s behalf and some nebulous form of life coach as well. After some time away from the computer I think I’m seeing both sides of it a little better now. But having worked in education before, I do lean more toward the whole didactic “let’s set a good example of honor and honesty” style. The fact that CPJ said it probably doesn’t hurt either.
Supersize that order, mutt
January 20th, 2012
10:16 pm
gtkenz, according to everything that was reported at the time Tech was put on probation, BeBe was NOT ineligible. Tech had, in fact, been given the go-ahead to play him by both the ACC and the NCAA. The problem, and the reason for the probation, was that, contrary to what the NCAA had demanded, DRad informed CPJ of the investigation. There were NO ineligible players in the game (games, actually, since the UGA game would have been vacated too had Tech won). It is an absurd reason to put a school on probation, especially considering the slaps on the wrist that OSU and Miami got for far worse offenses.
Rick James
January 20th, 2012
10:52 pm
Honarable man who I think in his heart wants to do things the right way..But on the real side it’s an easy rule to follow when you’re signing Conference USA caliber talent.
OkieDawg
January 20th, 2012
10:55 pm
Ramlin,D48,GTKenz,Dj and Super…Please my brain is exploding…shorter post please. More content and less hyperbole. Geez…
Supersize that order, mutt
January 20th, 2012
11:07 pm
LOL @ Okie
Was that short enough?
Paul in NH
January 20th, 2012
11:24 pm
When did headley lamar change his blog handle to GT = Dumpster Fire? I presume it was after Ken called him out for posting under multiple names
davidinloganville
January 20th, 2012
11:25 pm
not only does CMR not oversign I can’t remember him pulling a scholarships from recruits that visit other schools. it may have hurt with a couple of kids (Curry this year) I like the fact that he has confidence in his product. Georgia has also stayed, for the most part, committed to kids that can’t get into school for one reason or another like the WR at Ga Military this year.
Rick James
January 20th, 2012
11:39 pm
@ davidinloganville
You have an awful short memory CJP yanked Tre Jackson’s offer just last year because his took a visit to Florida State..But yet he recruits and allows commited players to take official visits to Tech.Double standards? I’d say so.
http://blogs.ajc.com/recruiting/2011/01/27/georgia-tech-coach-paul-johnson-revok…
FL Jacket
January 21st, 2012
12:27 am
Oh Rick…does it need to be explained to you a 47th time?
If the kid is committed to you, and takes an OV elsewhere he’s no longer committed. If a kid, who is committed to someplace else, makes an OV with you he’s no longer committed.
What is so hard to understand about this logic???
Bama Ramma
January 21st, 2012
12:56 am
Nick knows all he tricks—he’s loading up the roster again for another BCS title run in 2012 and 2013–#15 on the way!! RTR!!!!
Go Jackets!
January 21st, 2012
1:24 am
…and Nick knows how to turn “tricks”
Rick, please put it all together, figure it out and then post. Otherwise you seem foolish or worse.
Did you find out the value of that “piece of paper”? Please post a relevant link…
Paul in NH, you called it 100%! Poor Headley, now he’s a dumpster fire! What will he do?
Go Jackets!
January 21st, 2012
1:38 am
Conference USA huh? and all your mighty dawgs could manage was a miserable 14 point win against lowly Tech? I would not brag about that, but that’s just me. It does reflect on how LSU only needing 2 quarters to whip your arse after spotting you 10 points. Rick, go trash your neighborhood not Tech. I believe you have more experience with your neighborhood.
Son of Roaring Dan
January 21st, 2012
2:03 am
You folks are really falling all over yourselves with this holier than thou stuff. Its impossible to “oversign” — you can only sign 25 per year and have a max of 85. If you end up with more than 25 commitments who make their grades then someone has to “grayshirt” and come in 4 months later. What is so unethical about that IF its been discussed ahead of time with all parties? It worked well for John Parker Wilson at Alabama. And when you have new waves of studs coming in all the time, you can afford to set high standards of conduct AND enforce them on the existing team — isn’t that what you want? For all the whining over the years about Saban’s oversigning, I am unaware of any player complaining that he did not understand the deal or was not treated fairly. This situation with Taylor is the first time to my knowledge that a player has indicated he did not know the deal ahead of time so that is truly unfortunate. But he is NOT the player Alabama offered due to the knee injury and rather than throw him out right after it happened Alabama did not walk away. What has happened is that the Tide has a stud or two still on the board and it would be a huge help for Saban and Taylor’s future team to be able to sign them. Saban is letting Taylor look for a better situation but still holding him a slot to start 4 months later than he normally would. Wow, so that is the very picture of nastiness and lack of ethics? If that is the worst you can come up with on Saban all one can say is haters are going to hate. Again, listen to what Saban’s current and former players say about how he treats them — not a one sounds anything like all the insiders on this board. Is he tough — well, that goes without question. But is he unfair — lets see the testimonials as there aren’t many if any. And lets look at this from the real world standpoint as Taylor is truly getting bad advice from his so-called mentor: by whining in the media,Taylor is essentially saying that “I want to come in in September because it suits me to to start practicing even though I have NO chance of contributing due to the knee and instead of waiting a mere 4 months I would rather put the team in a bad position and lose the chance to sign maybe a 5 star qb?” That is really going to start him off on the right foot with his new team and coaches. Kids will be kids but adult mentors should have better sense. (And as to Paul Johnson, he sure didn’t have any problem taking the Prattville kid who walked away on his “commitment” to Alabama and left Saban holding the bag — how ethical is that??) But go ahead and let the hate and envy spew forth.
Adonis
January 21st, 2012
2:43 am
If Saban were to recruit like Johnson and Richt, his record would look like Johnson’s and Richt’s, awful! Wake up little children! College football is not about the players getting degrees, its about building a great pogram that elite athletes want to play at. You can get a degree anywhere. Ask Justin Taylor would he rather get a degree or be a high draft pick? Also, I’m reding you guys talking about he was Bama’s 7th commitment blah blh blah! You know why he committed so early b/c he knows he better get in where he fit in! And even w/ all ya’lls complaining he’s still committed to Bama. Why do you think that is? While Ga Tech & UGA continue to be mediocre programs, Bama will continue to win NCs.
Supersize that order, mutt
January 21st, 2012
2:53 am
Son of Roaring, that is the silliest pile of BS I have ever read. But go ahead and rationalize and make excuses, if that’s makes you feel better about the most unethical program in the country. If it’s such a “proper” way to do things, then why don’t any other schools in the country besides some SEC schools do it? The kid from Prattville, as you said, WALKED AWAY from his commitment, which is entirely the prerogative of any unsigned recruit at any school. When he did that, he was saying he no longer wanted to go to Bama, and so he was back on the “market” for every other school in the country. And don’t say Saban was “left holding the bag,” because Saban obviously couldn’t have cared less.
Supersize that order, mutt
January 21st, 2012
2:54 am
So Adonis, you’re saying that the ends justify the means, no matter who may get screwed. MORE BS !!!
Stinger 2
January 21st, 2012
6:58 am
Paul in NH: Thanks for disclosing the whereabouts of headley lamar. I thought he was gone but by his post
under the Dumpster Fire tag, I see its him again.
Can someone explain (if it is true) why there is an NCAA rule that prohibits a school from having more than 10 players who were recruited only by the lower division schools on schlorship at
Stinger 2
January 21st, 2012
7:00 am
sorry, the last words left outon above post should be Div 1 FBS schools.
Jerry Watson
January 21st, 2012
7:46 am
As a mfg engineer with over 30 years experience and a recent PhD, it is the responsibility of the company to maintain the traiing level of its employees to insure that no one is a poor worker. The only constant is change and the company must lead the change in order to survive. Should the employee not show up for work or be late or feel he is entitled to his job due to some nebulus reason, then it is not the employer who fires the employee but the employee who fires himself. As a professor, I do not flunk students, the students flunk themselves, I am just the one who makes it official.
GT Fan
January 21st, 2012
7:59 am
This discussion would be a mute point if the recruiting process were different. It should be, once an agreement is made by the school and individual, the letter of intent is signed right then and there. At that point, the school and individual are bound. Then, all this non-sense of over signing and unfairness to one school or the other is a mute point.
GFJacket
January 21st, 2012
8:33 am
Adonis, until Tech changes its curriculum to include some less academically challenging degreees, it will always be unable to recruit a stable of 5 star athletes like Bama, UGA, and the rest of top NCAA programs. It makes no difference who coaches Tech – - they will be limited in the pool of athletes they can target. Johnson can take this stance because he doesn’t have the “problem” of so many stellar athletes wanting to come there.
Stinger
January 21st, 2012
8:49 am
Forget Tech vs. Georgia and the inevitable squabble that always happens. This is not an issue of ANY school versus another school. It’s purely an issue of ethics and integrity. There are people in the world who have character, who ‘get it’ and then there are people who don’t. The people who don’t justify everything that occurs in business and this depraved world that we live in, because it’s all about ‘money’ and it’s all about ‘business’. I am not naiive. I’m well aware of the fact that businesses operate this way and the NCAA is one big business of whoring out 18 year old kids with a dream for massive profits.
However, on this issue there is a black and white. You promise a 17 year old kid something that helps him build a future, you don’t use him as a poker chip. I’ve coached high school kids for a long time and I’ve seen firsthand the devastation that happens when a coach pulls an offer. I had a kid ready to kick for a D-1 school. Coach gave him a verbal on a scholarship. Then this guy who is supposed to be a leader of young man falls off the face of the earth, won’t return phone calls, and signs someone else. This kid lived with his wonderful, but dirt poor mom, growing up and this was his ticket to college. Now thanks to that coach, this player finally had enough and quit football altogether because he had to work his way through college and help his mom out too.
I’ve got no use for the Sabans and Tressels of the world. They’re the same kind of people that are on here justifying screwing other people over because ‘that’s the way life works’. Guess what……if that’s what you’re used to, it’s because what goes around comes around and you’ll be next.
Stinger
January 21st, 2012
8:51 am
Need I also mention that the attitude that it is okay to use people as pawns is the ENTIRE reason that the Penn State thing happened?
Stinger
January 21st, 2012
8:56 am
Adonis….you have to know that the day will eventually come when Saban gets bored playing in the Bama sandbox and you go back to the Dennis Franchione and Mike DuBose era. Who would’ve ever thought 3 years ago that Florida would be a mediocre team again. Urban Meyer showed his true colors and here we are….Jim Tressel and Joe Pa showed theirs. You may win with bad character over the short term, but eventually it will all come crashing down. USC? Miami? Name a single program that has done things the dirty way who hasn’t had their face smeared in it?
Also….tell me what happens to businesses that operate this way over the long-term? AIG anyone? How about Enron? Solyndra? About 10,000 dot.coms…..What goes around comes around and if a college team or business operates consistently in a way where they don’t care about their people, then it will all come crashing down eventually.
gt4ever
January 21st, 2012
9:45 am
Lets face it, college football is all about winning. Period. Bobby Dodd screwed up when he made the decision to pull GT from the SEC. GT football has suffered ever since they left the SEC. There are not too many GT fans that would not want Nick Saban as their coach… Get real people….
J'boroJacket
January 21st, 2012
9:52 am
A few years ago, USC(west coast) was losing top players left and right due to their recruiting practices. Young guys get promised everything, yet when the next year’s new guys come that may be better, they get relegated back. Since they want to start, they go to the school that has an immediate need. Over signing means you can always improve on your “recruiting” mistakes. Live with your decision for 4-5 years and see how your program matures.
Rick James
January 21st, 2012
10:05 am
@FL Jacket
Nice spin..
GFJacket
January 21st, 2012
10:22 am
gt4ever, Dodd made his decision based on how NCAA was ruled at the time. The successful lawsuit by the CFA against the NCAA that stopped the NCAA from limiting how many times a team could appear on TV in a year changed the landscape. ESPN was the next stage. Tech is still primarily an academic institution that has not adopted the necessary “adjustments” needed to compete in major college football. Perhaps that is by design. Otherwise, UGA would have in-state competition for blue chip athletes.
Go Jackets!
January 21st, 2012
10:48 am
Adonis, I would hope “pograms” are a thing of the past. I certainly hope Saban is not running pograms at Bama.
gt4ever
January 21st, 2012
11:36 am
@GFJacket…. Whatever the reason, time has proven him wrong. I don’t have any idea what you mean by “adjustments”, but we over pay for a coach, and we recruit some of the same kids that go to these SEC schools… We just don’t have a coach who can close the deal….
LakeDawg
January 21st, 2012
11:56 am
Tricky Nick: “I am not a sleazeball.”
buzz
January 21st, 2012
12:08 pm
Both CPJ and CMR are men of honor on this topic. Over-signing is complete BS and unfortunately 18 year olds get hurt in the process.
Techie
January 21st, 2012
12:27 pm
Need more head coaches to speak out like Coach Johnson
Techie
January 21st, 2012
12:28 pm
All parties get dumped on when this oversigning takes place. Put back order in this craziness
GFJacket
January 21st, 2012
3:23 pm
By adjustments, I mean adding “degrees” to the curriculum that allow coaches to recruit academically challenged athletes. Most major programs have done it. Every degree at Tech requires a year of calculus, even International Relations. If you were a blue chip athelete with a reasonable expectation of playing in the NFL, would you come to Tech? When was the last time Tech’s recruiting class was in the top 40?
Tech’s football team has the highest SAT scores of any public university in the country – - higher than UVA, UNC, Texas, Michigan, etc. That stat alone tells you what type of athlete Johnson can recruit. You could replace Johnson with Saban and the results would be no different. Johnson’s scheme is the best Tech can hope for, given the limited pool of athletes Tech can recruit.
As far as Dodd, the old revenue stream for college football was not television, it was the gate. Tech was the only game in town and used to be a major draw for Atlanta residents. That is no longer the case.
2012 Georgia Tech Football Offseason: Jackets Could Crack Preseason Top 25 at sugarbowl.hoops227.us
January 21st, 2012
3:44 pm
[...] Friday, Johnson again clarified his stance on various over* practices: [...]
vamosjackets
January 21st, 2012
3:44 pm
It really boils down to something very simple.
Is lying right or wrong? Or, to put it another way, does saying what is true have more ethical value than saying what is false?
And, the answer is also ver simple. The truth matters. Lying is wrong.
Truth matters more than anything else in this discussion. If we don’t value the truth, and say that lying is ok or not necessarily wrong, then we are lost in our existence.
Saban and Bama fans that support him or turn a blind eye have lost their way.
Gr8 2B aFuzzyB
January 21st, 2012
5:01 pm
I like the way FSU snaps the ball when the D jumps offsides while the rest of the O line stays frozen in their stance even while the play continues.
Genius Jacket
January 21st, 2012
6:28 pm
I hope signs some quality ballplayers this year. I am afraid we are turning into a service academy.
Timbo
January 21st, 2012
7:49 pm
My brother received/earned a full academic scholarship to GT after graduating highschool in 1987, however there were conditons that had to be met for him to continue to retain his scholarship throughout his acadmic career at Tech. He had to maintain a minimum GPA of 3.0 I believe. If he went below, he lost his scholarship. He came dangerously close to this his Freshman year due to too much partying and a tough transition to college. He made it through ok and is now a successful Chem Engineer for a well known company. Point being…why should the conditions be any different for an athlete? If they received a full academic scholarship and do not live up to the standards and conditions set forth by the scholarship, then why should a coach or program not be able to cut the player loose? If over signing is in place to remedy the fact that some players do not live up to the standards of the scholarship, what’s teh problem? That’s the real world folks. My brother may have lost his academic scholarship, but still would have had the opportunity to be a part of the institution via grants, loans, etc…Same can be said for the athlete.
Timbo
January 21st, 2012
7:59 pm
@GF Jacket
That’s not true anymore regarding GT athletics. People keep pointing to academic standards of their athletes at Tech, but that is not true anymore. They dumbed down the requirements and academic standards for its athletes to try and stay competive in the sports landscape years ago. You should be able to accept and believe that if you EVER listened to any interview of Reggie Ball during his career at Tech. He would have made Bo Jackson proud.
c
January 21st, 2012
8:06 pm
Coach Johnson is correct about not over signing. A thumbs down to Saban and the UAT crowd where their word means Nothing.
concern
January 21st, 2012
8:11 pm
The AJC Staff must press SABAN and the university to compile by the rules and standing by their commitment to Justin.
GFJacket
January 22nd, 2012
7:39 am
Timbo, there are numerous athletes that never graduated despite the academic tutoring that was available to them. Tech is a hard school and it remains hard to graduate – - requiring work and discipline. Do you think Tech would have ever offered King, Ealey, or Crowell a scholarship?
Don’t equate how someone speaks with their intelligence. Their speech pattern reflects the environment they grew up, not their ability to learn.
I have stats to back up my position – - Tech’s SAT scores, graduation rates, and curriculum offered. I maintain that until Tech gets some Turfgrass Management or Home Finance degrees it will not be able to attract blue chip athletes.
I don’t hate UGA. I want them to win every game except the Saturday after Thanksgiving. UGA is a fine school with some really challenging degrees. However, it also has some less challenging degrees to provide a path for less academically able athletes. Tech does not have that advantage.
savannadawg
January 22nd, 2012
12:47 pm
I think it is a good thing that our college coaches in Georgia try and do the right thing. Yes I said try because no one is perfect. But what I would really like to see is the NCAA grow some “you know what” and make DRASTIC change to The major college programs to make them even more competitive. Lets drop the scholarship offers from the majors down from 85 to 80 and bring up the mid-majors i.e. Georgia Southern’s from 62 to 70. I really think the competition and fun would come back to the game. College football is too much business today and not as much fun as it used to be, imo.
Stinger
January 22nd, 2012
2:58 pm
Sure glad we don’t recruit thugs like UGA. They are the FSU of the 90’s without the WINS !!! Thug City USA.
2003Tide
January 22nd, 2012
4:22 pm
You guys are right. Saban asking a kid to show up a semester later to get his scholly is much worse than Paul Johnson pulling Junior Gnonkonde scholly offer. Johnson is doing nothing except talking out of both sides of his mouth, and the AJC writers hating on Bama is a joke.
Timbo
January 22nd, 2012
5:06 pm
@GF Jacket
No doubt Tech is a tough school, however it is also a true that they lowered their standards for its athletes to try and stay competitive in today’s environment. Obviously money plays a role here. As far as someone’s speech, I’m not going to get in a sociological debate, however I disagree on the belief that one’s speech cannot be used as a measuring stick of one’s intellectual abilities. I contend that speech is a great determinate of one’s intellectual capacity. I’m not talking about slang or accents, but am alluding to strength in vocabulary and the ability to form complete sentences when speaking. I may have come off as being “insensitive” regarding Reggie Ball, but I was using him as an example of how the academic standards at Tech have been dumbed down for its athletes. Sorry…I guess I’ve become heartless.
I do agree that Tech’s academic standards for its athletes still significantly outweigh those of UGA, Bama, and the like. I was referring to this “dumbing down” as being relative to GT’s old standards.
Lockforward
January 22nd, 2012
9:51 pm
The Paul Johnson way is to pull a scholarship from a kid with a 3.325 GPA and claim academics as the reason when that same school apparently found Joe Hamilton and Reggie Ball to be academically qualified. The Paul Johnson way is to attribute every win to his system and every loss to his players. The Paul Johnson way is to love your system more than you love your players. Drink the Kool-aid if you want, but your coach is a doosh.
Lockforward
January 22nd, 2012
9:54 pm
Timbo – we’ve seen GT quarterbacks who can’t count to four.
Dream on.
JAdams
January 22nd, 2012
10:37 pm
CPJ would oversign if he could but he cant cause none of these kids want to come to tech
Cujo
January 22nd, 2012
11:43 pm
So pulling a ’ship offer from your FIRST 2012 commitment is OK & oversigning is not? Not only does Paul Johnson have 2 chins, he has two faces – and they’re BOTH UGLY!!
College Football Business
January 23rd, 2012
8:27 am
I know big time college football is a business. However, I really wish it weren’t. Wouldn’t it be cool if kids who played for your school really went there because they wanted to and were actual students too? College football is a semi-pro-for-profit endeavor that makes sufficient money to support the non-revenue sports. Cheating is the norm and kids who don’t produce are routinely kicked to the curb. Sad but true.
Animal Control
January 23rd, 2012
8:49 am
I like it! It’s a good policy that teaches kids your word is an important part of your character. Now, let’s discuss giving the GT kickers scholarships PJ. We can start with finding a player who can actually KICK…then go from there.
gt4ever
January 23rd, 2012
9:10 am
It would seem that way Cujo….. I would think that there is probably something more to this story.. I would hope that if the kid has met the NCAA minimum requirements, that we should honor his scholarship…
Boring Old Option
January 23rd, 2012
10:32 am
Not Oversiging (Paul Johnson)= 8-5 No Chamionships at the D1 level.
Oversiging (Nick Saban)= 12-1 3 Championships at the D1 level.
So I think Nick Saban knows what he doing. Take the best players.
Boring Old Option
January 23rd, 2012
10:33 am
Not Oversiging (Paul Johnson)= 8-5 No Championships at the D1 level.
Oversiging (Nick Saban)= 12-1 3 Championships at the D1 level.
So I think Nick Saban knows what he doing. Take the best players.
Reality Bites
January 23rd, 2012
2:09 pm
CPJ can holler about other schools all he wants. I think he is gone after this upcoming 7-5, loss at Athens, loss in a Medicore bowl season. Notta fan of the guy so much anymore. Gruff and winning is one thing, gruff and losing EVERY bowl game and to Ga 3/4 yrs is too much for me.
Woodstock Dawg
January 23rd, 2012
2:18 pm
Every school has the right to resend LOI, and every kid who gets one has the right not to sign it. Any student-athlete who commits before signing day, and doesn’t take all his vists is not very smart. I guess it boils down to the character of the coaching staff and the student-athlete, but we don’t want to talk about that.
Big Crimson 75
January 23rd, 2012
2:37 pm
Paul Johnson & the AJC — oversigning is wrong.
signing a player that has already committed to another school — OK
for every justin taylor, there is a justin thomas
i have not seen the outrage over what justin thomas / paul johnson did in this paper.
bottom line — its better to go back on your WORD than to over-sign.
This is in your paper not mine.
..and paul johnson’s opinion carries as much weight with the ncaa as mine & yours.
Big Crimson 75
January 23rd, 2012
2:41 pm
…..and if paul johnson had any stones, he’d say a name instead of insinuating — how man-ly.
no wonder his defenses are so good every year.
Big Crimson 75
January 23rd, 2012
2:42 pm
……and if PJ was any good, tech wouldn’t be in the toilet bowl every year………..
Dawg Fan
January 23rd, 2012
2:45 pm
Not a Tech or Paul Johnson fan, but applaude him in this issue. He calls a spade a spade and coach’s that over commit should have their scholarships reduced by that amount the next season.
Big Crimson 75
January 23rd, 2012
2:57 pm
What does PJ think of Gunner Kiehl???
Steve
January 23rd, 2012
4:29 pm
Let the kids sign as soon as that decide…..that will help with what happened to Justin taylor…if he had signed when he comitted, that scholarship would be taken..
BobDawg
January 23rd, 2012
4:40 pm
Just read where the Over-signing issue has garnered LSU & Alabama over 35 extra schollies the last 4 years…. That is a big deal in the 3rd and 4th quarters of games…. I guess they just get past that now with pushing players back 1, 2 to 3 years and no big deal, right?????