Paul Johnson rips oversigning practice
Speaking at a news conference Friday, Georgia Tech coach Paul Johnson made clear his thoughts on oversigning in recruiting, a topic that has gained buzz this week because of Alabama’s pulling a scholarship offer for 2012 from North Atlanta High running back Justin Taylor.
Johnson is not in favor of it, a stance he has taken in the past. The matter came up when he decried the practice of high school prospects committing to a school but then continuing to fish for better scholarship offers. He made an analogy to illustrate his opinion.
“That’s like (if) we go out there, we’ve got 15 commitments and we just keep recruiting over the top of them,” Johnson said. “Now, people do that, but not many. And then they just come back and they tell ‘em, ‘Hey, sorry, you’ll have to come next year. You’ll have to come in the spring. We found somebody better than you. We oversigned.’ That’s wrong. And it’s wrong on both sides. It’s just wrong.”
Taylor committed to Alabama last February, becoming the seventh player in the Crimson Tide’s 2012 class. However, Taylor missed his senior season with a knee injury and Alabama has taken 27 commitments, two over the limit. In an interview with the Journal-Constitution, Taylor said Alabama coach Nick Saban told him Alabama couldn’t sign him because the 25-player class was full, and instead offered him a signed piece of paper guaranteeing him a spot in the 2013 class. Taylor is reportedly considering other options.
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115 comments Add your comment
Supersize that order, mutt
January 20th, 2012
10:16 pm
gtkenz, according to everything that was reported at the time Tech was put on probation, BeBe was NOT ineligible. Tech had, in fact, been given the go-ahead to play him by both the ACC and the NCAA. The problem, and the reason for the probation, was that, contrary to what the NCAA had demanded, DRad informed CPJ of the investigation. There were NO ineligible players in the game (games, actually, since the UGA game would have been vacated too had Tech won). It is an absurd reason to put a school on probation, especially considering the slaps on the wrist that OSU and Miami got for far worse offenses.
Rick James
January 20th, 2012
10:52 pm
Honarable man who I think in his heart wants to do things the right way..But on the real side it’s an easy rule to follow when you’re signing Conference USA caliber talent.
OkieDawg
January 20th, 2012
10:55 pm
Ramlin,D48,GTKenz,Dj and Super…Please my brain is exploding…shorter post please. More content and less hyperbole. Geez…
Supersize that order, mutt
January 20th, 2012
11:07 pm
LOL @ Okie
Was that short enough?
Paul in NH
January 20th, 2012
11:24 pm
When did headley lamar change his blog handle to GT = Dumpster Fire? I presume it was after Ken called him out for posting under multiple names
davidinloganville
January 20th, 2012
11:25 pm
not only does CMR not oversign I can’t remember him pulling a scholarships from recruits that visit other schools. it may have hurt with a couple of kids (Curry this year) I like the fact that he has confidence in his product. Georgia has also stayed, for the most part, committed to kids that can’t get into school for one reason or another like the WR at Ga Military this year.
Rick James
January 20th, 2012
11:39 pm
@ davidinloganville
You have an awful short memory CJP yanked Tre Jackson’s offer just last year because his took a visit to Florida State..But yet he recruits and allows commited players to take official visits to Tech.Double standards? I’d say so.
http://blogs.ajc.com/recruiting/2011/01/27/georgia-tech-coach-paul-johnson-revok…
FL Jacket
January 21st, 2012
12:27 am
Oh Rick…does it need to be explained to you a 47th time?
If the kid is committed to you, and takes an OV elsewhere he’s no longer committed. If a kid, who is committed to someplace else, makes an OV with you he’s no longer committed.
What is so hard to understand about this logic???
Bama Ramma
January 21st, 2012
12:56 am
Nick knows all he tricks—he’s loading up the roster again for another BCS title run in 2012 and 2013–#15 on the way!! RTR!!!!
Go Jackets!
January 21st, 2012
1:24 am
…and Nick knows how to turn “tricks”
Rick, please put it all together, figure it out and then post. Otherwise you seem foolish or worse.
Did you find out the value of that “piece of paper”? Please post a relevant link…
Paul in NH, you called it 100%! Poor Headley, now he’s a dumpster fire! What will he do?
Go Jackets!
January 21st, 2012
1:38 am
Conference USA huh? and all your mighty dawgs could manage was a miserable 14 point win against lowly Tech? I would not brag about that, but that’s just me. It does reflect on how LSU only needing 2 quarters to whip your arse after spotting you 10 points. Rick, go trash your neighborhood not Tech. I believe you have more experience with your neighborhood.
Son of Roaring Dan
January 21st, 2012
2:03 am
You folks are really falling all over yourselves with this holier than thou stuff. Its impossible to “oversign” — you can only sign 25 per year and have a max of 85. If you end up with more than 25 commitments who make their grades then someone has to “grayshirt” and come in 4 months later. What is so unethical about that IF its been discussed ahead of time with all parties? It worked well for John Parker Wilson at Alabama. And when you have new waves of studs coming in all the time, you can afford to set high standards of conduct AND enforce them on the existing team — isn’t that what you want? For all the whining over the years about Saban’s oversigning, I am unaware of any player complaining that he did not understand the deal or was not treated fairly. This situation with Taylor is the first time to my knowledge that a player has indicated he did not know the deal ahead of time so that is truly unfortunate. But he is NOT the player Alabama offered due to the knee injury and rather than throw him out right after it happened Alabama did not walk away. What has happened is that the Tide has a stud or two still on the board and it would be a huge help for Saban and Taylor’s future team to be able to sign them. Saban is letting Taylor look for a better situation but still holding him a slot to start 4 months later than he normally would. Wow, so that is the very picture of nastiness and lack of ethics? If that is the worst you can come up with on Saban all one can say is haters are going to hate. Again, listen to what Saban’s current and former players say about how he treats them — not a one sounds anything like all the insiders on this board. Is he tough — well, that goes without question. But is he unfair — lets see the testimonials as there aren’t many if any. And lets look at this from the real world standpoint as Taylor is truly getting bad advice from his so-called mentor: by whining in the media,Taylor is essentially saying that “I want to come in in September because it suits me to to start practicing even though I have NO chance of contributing due to the knee and instead of waiting a mere 4 months I would rather put the team in a bad position and lose the chance to sign maybe a 5 star qb?” That is really going to start him off on the right foot with his new team and coaches. Kids will be kids but adult mentors should have better sense. (And as to Paul Johnson, he sure didn’t have any problem taking the Prattville kid who walked away on his “commitment” to Alabama and left Saban holding the bag — how ethical is that??) But go ahead and let the hate and envy spew forth.
Adonis
January 21st, 2012
2:43 am
If Saban were to recruit like Johnson and Richt, his record would look like Johnson’s and Richt’s, awful! Wake up little children! College football is not about the players getting degrees, its about building a great pogram that elite athletes want to play at. You can get a degree anywhere. Ask Justin Taylor would he rather get a degree or be a high draft pick? Also, I’m reding you guys talking about he was Bama’s 7th commitment blah blh blah! You know why he committed so early b/c he knows he better get in where he fit in! And even w/ all ya’lls complaining he’s still committed to Bama. Why do you think that is? While Ga Tech & UGA continue to be mediocre programs, Bama will continue to win NCs.
Supersize that order, mutt
January 21st, 2012
2:53 am
Son of Roaring, that is the silliest pile of BS I have ever read. But go ahead and rationalize and make excuses, if that’s makes you feel better about the most unethical program in the country. If it’s such a “proper” way to do things, then why don’t any other schools in the country besides some SEC schools do it? The kid from Prattville, as you said, WALKED AWAY from his commitment, which is entirely the prerogative of any unsigned recruit at any school. When he did that, he was saying he no longer wanted to go to Bama, and so he was back on the “market” for every other school in the country. And don’t say Saban was “left holding the bag,” because Saban obviously couldn’t have cared less.
Supersize that order, mutt
January 21st, 2012
2:54 am
So Adonis, you’re saying that the ends justify the means, no matter who may get screwed. MORE BS !!!
Stinger 2
January 21st, 2012
6:58 am
Paul in NH: Thanks for disclosing the whereabouts of headley lamar. I thought he was gone but by his post
under the Dumpster Fire tag, I see its him again.
Can someone explain (if it is true) why there is an NCAA rule that prohibits a school from having more than 10 players who were recruited only by the lower division schools on schlorship at
Stinger 2
January 21st, 2012
7:00 am
sorry, the last words left outon above post should be Div 1 FBS schools.
Jerry Watson
January 21st, 2012
7:46 am
As a mfg engineer with over 30 years experience and a recent PhD, it is the responsibility of the company to maintain the traiing level of its employees to insure that no one is a poor worker. The only constant is change and the company must lead the change in order to survive. Should the employee not show up for work or be late or feel he is entitled to his job due to some nebulus reason, then it is not the employer who fires the employee but the employee who fires himself. As a professor, I do not flunk students, the students flunk themselves, I am just the one who makes it official.
GT Fan
January 21st, 2012
7:59 am
This discussion would be a mute point if the recruiting process were different. It should be, once an agreement is made by the school and individual, the letter of intent is signed right then and there. At that point, the school and individual are bound. Then, all this non-sense of over signing and unfairness to one school or the other is a mute point.
GFJacket
January 21st, 2012
8:33 am
Adonis, until Tech changes its curriculum to include some less academically challenging degreees, it will always be unable to recruit a stable of 5 star athletes like Bama, UGA, and the rest of top NCAA programs. It makes no difference who coaches Tech – - they will be limited in the pool of athletes they can target. Johnson can take this stance because he doesn’t have the “problem” of so many stellar athletes wanting to come there.
Stinger
January 21st, 2012
8:49 am
Forget Tech vs. Georgia and the inevitable squabble that always happens. This is not an issue of ANY school versus another school. It’s purely an issue of ethics and integrity. There are people in the world who have character, who ‘get it’ and then there are people who don’t. The people who don’t justify everything that occurs in business and this depraved world that we live in, because it’s all about ‘money’ and it’s all about ‘business’. I am not naiive. I’m well aware of the fact that businesses operate this way and the NCAA is one big business of whoring out 18 year old kids with a dream for massive profits.
However, on this issue there is a black and white. You promise a 17 year old kid something that helps him build a future, you don’t use him as a poker chip. I’ve coached high school kids for a long time and I’ve seen firsthand the devastation that happens when a coach pulls an offer. I had a kid ready to kick for a D-1 school. Coach gave him a verbal on a scholarship. Then this guy who is supposed to be a leader of young man falls off the face of the earth, won’t return phone calls, and signs someone else. This kid lived with his wonderful, but dirt poor mom, growing up and this was his ticket to college. Now thanks to that coach, this player finally had enough and quit football altogether because he had to work his way through college and help his mom out too.
I’ve got no use for the Sabans and Tressels of the world. They’re the same kind of people that are on here justifying screwing other people over because ‘that’s the way life works’. Guess what……if that’s what you’re used to, it’s because what goes around comes around and you’ll be next.
Stinger
January 21st, 2012
8:51 am
Need I also mention that the attitude that it is okay to use people as pawns is the ENTIRE reason that the Penn State thing happened?
Stinger
January 21st, 2012
8:56 am
Adonis….you have to know that the day will eventually come when Saban gets bored playing in the Bama sandbox and you go back to the Dennis Franchione and Mike DuBose era. Who would’ve ever thought 3 years ago that Florida would be a mediocre team again. Urban Meyer showed his true colors and here we are….Jim Tressel and Joe Pa showed theirs. You may win with bad character over the short term, but eventually it will all come crashing down. USC? Miami? Name a single program that has done things the dirty way who hasn’t had their face smeared in it?
Also….tell me what happens to businesses that operate this way over the long-term? AIG anyone? How about Enron? Solyndra? About 10,000 dot.coms…..What goes around comes around and if a college team or business operates consistently in a way where they don’t care about their people, then it will all come crashing down eventually.
gt4ever
January 21st, 2012
9:45 am
Lets face it, college football is all about winning. Period. Bobby Dodd screwed up when he made the decision to pull GT from the SEC. GT football has suffered ever since they left the SEC. There are not too many GT fans that would not want Nick Saban as their coach… Get real people….
J'boroJacket
January 21st, 2012
9:52 am
A few years ago, USC(west coast) was losing top players left and right due to their recruiting practices. Young guys get promised everything, yet when the next year’s new guys come that may be better, they get relegated back. Since they want to start, they go to the school that has an immediate need. Over signing means you can always improve on your “recruiting” mistakes. Live with your decision for 4-5 years and see how your program matures.
Rick James
January 21st, 2012
10:05 am
@FL Jacket
Nice spin..
GFJacket
January 21st, 2012
10:22 am
gt4ever, Dodd made his decision based on how NCAA was ruled at the time. The successful lawsuit by the CFA against the NCAA that stopped the NCAA from limiting how many times a team could appear on TV in a year changed the landscape. ESPN was the next stage. Tech is still primarily an academic institution that has not adopted the necessary “adjustments” needed to compete in major college football. Perhaps that is by design. Otherwise, UGA would have in-state competition for blue chip athletes.
Go Jackets!
January 21st, 2012
10:48 am
Adonis, I would hope “pograms” are a thing of the past. I certainly hope Saban is not running pograms at Bama.
gt4ever
January 21st, 2012
11:36 am
@GFJacket…. Whatever the reason, time has proven him wrong. I don’t have any idea what you mean by “adjustments”, but we over pay for a coach, and we recruit some of the same kids that go to these SEC schools… We just don’t have a coach who can close the deal….
LakeDawg
January 21st, 2012
11:56 am
Tricky Nick: “I am not a sleazeball.”
buzz
January 21st, 2012
12:08 pm
Both CPJ and CMR are men of honor on this topic. Over-signing is complete BS and unfortunately 18 year olds get hurt in the process.
Techie
January 21st, 2012
12:27 pm
Need more head coaches to speak out like Coach Johnson
Techie
January 21st, 2012
12:28 pm
All parties get dumped on when this oversigning takes place. Put back order in this craziness
GFJacket
January 21st, 2012
3:23 pm
By adjustments, I mean adding “degrees” to the curriculum that allow coaches to recruit academically challenged athletes. Most major programs have done it. Every degree at Tech requires a year of calculus, even International Relations. If you were a blue chip athelete with a reasonable expectation of playing in the NFL, would you come to Tech? When was the last time Tech’s recruiting class was in the top 40?
Tech’s football team has the highest SAT scores of any public university in the country – - higher than UVA, UNC, Texas, Michigan, etc. That stat alone tells you what type of athlete Johnson can recruit. You could replace Johnson with Saban and the results would be no different. Johnson’s scheme is the best Tech can hope for, given the limited pool of athletes Tech can recruit.
As far as Dodd, the old revenue stream for college football was not television, it was the gate. Tech was the only game in town and used to be a major draw for Atlanta residents. That is no longer the case.
2012 Georgia Tech Football Offseason: Jackets Could Crack Preseason Top 25 at sugarbowl.hoops227.us
January 21st, 2012
3:44 pm
[...] Friday, Johnson again clarified his stance on various over* practices: [...]
vamosjackets
January 21st, 2012
3:44 pm
It really boils down to something very simple.
Is lying right or wrong? Or, to put it another way, does saying what is true have more ethical value than saying what is false?
And, the answer is also ver simple. The truth matters. Lying is wrong.
Truth matters more than anything else in this discussion. If we don’t value the truth, and say that lying is ok or not necessarily wrong, then we are lost in our existence.
Saban and Bama fans that support him or turn a blind eye have lost their way.
Gr8 2B aFuzzyB
January 21st, 2012
5:01 pm
I like the way FSU snaps the ball when the D jumps offsides while the rest of the O line stays frozen in their stance even while the play continues.
Genius Jacket
January 21st, 2012
6:28 pm
I hope signs some quality ballplayers this year. I am afraid we are turning into a service academy.
Timbo
January 21st, 2012
7:49 pm
My brother received/earned a full academic scholarship to GT after graduating highschool in 1987, however there were conditons that had to be met for him to continue to retain his scholarship throughout his acadmic career at Tech. He had to maintain a minimum GPA of 3.0 I believe. If he went below, he lost his scholarship. He came dangerously close to this his Freshman year due to too much partying and a tough transition to college. He made it through ok and is now a successful Chem Engineer for a well known company. Point being…why should the conditions be any different for an athlete? If they received a full academic scholarship and do not live up to the standards and conditions set forth by the scholarship, then why should a coach or program not be able to cut the player loose? If over signing is in place to remedy the fact that some players do not live up to the standards of the scholarship, what’s teh problem? That’s the real world folks. My brother may have lost his academic scholarship, but still would have had the opportunity to be a part of the institution via grants, loans, etc…Same can be said for the athlete.
Timbo
January 21st, 2012
7:59 pm
@GF Jacket
That’s not true anymore regarding GT athletics. People keep pointing to academic standards of their athletes at Tech, but that is not true anymore. They dumbed down the requirements and academic standards for its athletes to try and stay competive in the sports landscape years ago. You should be able to accept and believe that if you EVER listened to any interview of Reggie Ball during his career at Tech. He would have made Bo Jackson proud.
c
January 21st, 2012
8:06 pm
Coach Johnson is correct about not over signing. A thumbs down to Saban and the UAT crowd where their word means Nothing.
concern
January 21st, 2012
8:11 pm
The AJC Staff must press SABAN and the university to compile by the rules and standing by their commitment to Justin.
GFJacket
January 22nd, 2012
7:39 am
Timbo, there are numerous athletes that never graduated despite the academic tutoring that was available to them. Tech is a hard school and it remains hard to graduate – - requiring work and discipline. Do you think Tech would have ever offered King, Ealey, or Crowell a scholarship?
Don’t equate how someone speaks with their intelligence. Their speech pattern reflects the environment they grew up, not their ability to learn.
I have stats to back up my position – - Tech’s SAT scores, graduation rates, and curriculum offered. I maintain that until Tech gets some Turfgrass Management or Home Finance degrees it will not be able to attract blue chip athletes.
I don’t hate UGA. I want them to win every game except the Saturday after Thanksgiving. UGA is a fine school with some really challenging degrees. However, it also has some less challenging degrees to provide a path for less academically able athletes. Tech does not have that advantage.
savannadawg
January 22nd, 2012
12:47 pm
I think it is a good thing that our college coaches in Georgia try and do the right thing. Yes I said try because no one is perfect. But what I would really like to see is the NCAA grow some “you know what” and make DRASTIC change to The major college programs to make them even more competitive. Lets drop the scholarship offers from the majors down from 85 to 80 and bring up the mid-majors i.e. Georgia Southern’s from 62 to 70. I really think the competition and fun would come back to the game. College football is too much business today and not as much fun as it used to be, imo.
Stinger
January 22nd, 2012
2:58 pm
Sure glad we don’t recruit thugs like UGA. They are the FSU of the 90’s without the WINS !!! Thug City USA.
2003Tide
January 22nd, 2012
4:22 pm
You guys are right. Saban asking a kid to show up a semester later to get his scholly is much worse than Paul Johnson pulling Junior Gnonkonde scholly offer. Johnson is doing nothing except talking out of both sides of his mouth, and the AJC writers hating on Bama is a joke.
Timbo
January 22nd, 2012
5:06 pm
@GF Jacket
No doubt Tech is a tough school, however it is also a true that they lowered their standards for its athletes to try and stay competitive in today’s environment. Obviously money plays a role here. As far as someone’s speech, I’m not going to get in a sociological debate, however I disagree on the belief that one’s speech cannot be used as a measuring stick of one’s intellectual abilities. I contend that speech is a great determinate of one’s intellectual capacity. I’m not talking about slang or accents, but am alluding to strength in vocabulary and the ability to form complete sentences when speaking. I may have come off as being “insensitive” regarding Reggie Ball, but I was using him as an example of how the academic standards at Tech have been dumbed down for its athletes. Sorry…I guess I’ve become heartless.
I do agree that Tech’s academic standards for its athletes still significantly outweigh those of UGA, Bama, and the like. I was referring to this “dumbing down” as being relative to GT’s old standards.
Lockforward
January 22nd, 2012
9:51 pm
The Paul Johnson way is to pull a scholarship from a kid with a 3.325 GPA and claim academics as the reason when that same school apparently found Joe Hamilton and Reggie Ball to be academically qualified. The Paul Johnson way is to attribute every win to his system and every loss to his players. The Paul Johnson way is to love your system more than you love your players. Drink the Kool-aid if you want, but your coach is a doosh.
Lockforward
January 22nd, 2012
9:54 pm
Timbo – we’ve seen GT quarterbacks who can’t count to four.
Dream on.
JAdams
January 22nd, 2012
10:37 pm
CPJ would oversign if he could but he cant cause none of these kids want to come to tech