Will N.C. State’s decision affect Tech’s future?

N.C. State basketball coach Sidney Lowe resigned on Tuesday, three days after Georgia Tech decided not retain Paul Hewitt.

That’s two coaches out in the ACC, with perhaps a third, Miami’s Frank Haith,  on the horizon.

Talking to colleagues at last week’s ACC tournament, many agreed that N.C. State and Miami are arguably two of the toughest jobs in the ACC. Miami because of its apathy and geography. N.C. State because of its expectations and geography.

Before Hewitt was let go, a former colleague said that Georgia Tech and N.C. State would most likely butt heads if they were looking for coaches at the same time.

Perhaps the biggest difference between the two schools is the salary budget. Athletic director Dan Radakovich said the next coach’s salary won’t be “capped” (a question I asked him. Capped wasn’t his word, it was mine). I would be stunned if Tech opens its wallet like N.C. State will allegedly do. A guess on my part, but I’ll be surprised if Tech spends more than $1.7 million per year, which would be a decent raise over what Hewitt was paid. Again, that’s just a guess.

Reports out of the Triangle say that Yow is looking at Arizona’s Sean Miller and Texas A&M’s Mark Turgeon, among other men that are competing in the NCAA tournament. Apparently, N.C. State athletic director Debbie Yow is willing to spend as much as $3 million per yer, which is better than a football coach’s salary at most schools. It also shows to what length N.C. State will go to compete with its across-the-street and established neighbors in Durham and Chapel Hill.

So, which is the better job?

Tech has the fertile recruiting ground of Atlanta, in which is must compete with just one other in-state, power-conference school for recruits. (Lots of out-of-state schools mine the area, too). N.C. State must compete with three other schools in the same conference, not counting East Carolina, Charlotte, and others. Edge: Tech.

Tech will open a new basketball arena in 2012. N.C. State plays in an arena opened in 1999, which is very nice. Edge: Tech.

Tech averaged a few fannies more than 6,000 last year. N.C. State averaged a few fannies less than 14,000. Edge: N.C. State.

Tech has Atlanta, a cosmopolitan city that dozens of Fortune 500 companies call home. N.C. State has Raleigh, a beautiful city where numerous technology companies are headquartered. Edge: Atlanta.

Potential for winning quickly? If Iman Shumpert returns for his senior season, Tech has the potential to be very good next year. Brian Oliver’s shooting form couldn’t be much worse than it was last year. Glen Rice will have another year of maturity to improve his offensive game, Daniel Miller and Jason Morris were solid performers that should improve if they don’t experience the sophomore slump, etc. N.C. State has some talent returning, but not as much as Tech. Edge: Tech.

Of course, money is the thing. If N.C. State is willing to spend $3 million, it has the clear edge.

According to the NCAA, there are prestigious openings at:

Georgia Tech

N.C. State

Texas Tech

Arkansas

There are less-prestigious openings at:

Texas A&M-Corpus Christi

Kennesaw State

Georgia State

Manhattan College

Towson

– Doug Roberson, AJC

206 comments Add your comment

jesusislord

March 16th, 2011
10:39 am

You gotta’ study Engineering or Management at Tech; State offers everything. Huge advantage to State. You also get to play pick up games with the UNC- Duke guys at State. Winning at Tech is an anomaly, winning at State expected. There is no debate here, State is the better job. Tech should hope State hires Mark Fox. PS: Luke 24:5

juvenal

March 16th, 2011
10:42 am

capital J…….

FullMetalJacket

March 16th, 2011
10:43 am

The State job will pay 30-50% more than the Tech job. We might be competing for some of the same coaching prospects, but the nature of each job is very different also.

FullMetalJacket

March 16th, 2011
10:46 am

Tech offers as many different majors as NC State and with much greater prestige. As a founding member of the ACC and with a rich basketball heritage, NC State is an excellent opportunity. For media exposure, endorsement bucks, and recruiting purposes, the Georgia Tech position is by far the more attractive situation. State will pay more, but then again, they HAVE to pay more to attract someone of stature. Both jobs are good gigs.

Gordon

March 16th, 2011
10:49 am

Even with Hewitt, we’ve been getting better players and winning more than NC State for years. One thing Doug left out was who the new coach would be working for. Ask Gary Williams whether he would rather work for Debbie Yow or Dan Radakovich.

Ramblin Man

March 16th, 2011
10:50 am

Winning at Tech is an anomaly, winning at State expected

First and dumbest post all in one. Both programs are a good oppurtunity to just about any coach and offer different things so you can’t really go wrong it’s just what is right for that particular person.

blasphemy

March 16th, 2011
10:51 am

jesusislord doesn’t know crap about this situation. There is no comparison between the academics in Raleigh and those at Georgia Tech. NC State is a good job, with good money, large fanbase, and a rich tradition to draw on. But Ga. Tech offers its own advantages in media market, recruiting, and prestige, too. As a professional in the medical field, I know that a Biology, Biochemistry, Psychology, or even HST degree from Georgia Tech commands far greater respect than NC State, which offers a limited menu of Ph.D. programs to boot.

Big Ol Stinger

March 16th, 2011
10:52 am

Jesus,

Winning is expected at NC State????

Thanks, I needed a laugh to brighten my day.

Tech Forever

March 16th, 2011
10:55 am

I find it interesting we’re talking about two schools who pretty much wrap their athletic identity around what their rival schools are doing. It’s sad and I’m sick of it. Much like Tech fans attitudes regarding Georgia, State fans hate UNC as much as or more than they love State.

As far as which job is better that’s tough. Tech’s academic requirements and State’s proximity to Duke and UNC cancel out each other’s recruiting advantages. Facilities? Tech. Money? State. Both programs will be used as catapults to better jobs for the next coach that’s brought on assuming he can win. I say it’s a wash. Neither job is an easy one.

Luke Skywalker 2:15

March 16th, 2011
10:56 am

Haha. Jesus! The initial, insipid post is so lame. The State job is more lucrative, which may make it the de facto better job materially, but the advantage ends there. I know, I am a State grad, and proud as I am of our basketball heritage and Everett Case’s place in basketball history, the academics are standard state-university quality. I got a good education for a good price, and I love the Pack, but I’m also smart enough to know the truth.

GT45

March 16th, 2011
10:56 am

Noodles would come for lunch!

Buzz

March 16th, 2011
10:56 am

Hire Craig Neal as long as he gets a hair cut!!!!

Tech Forever

March 16th, 2011
10:57 am

FullMetalJacket

I know Tech has about 40 undergraduate degree programs. Surly State has far more than that.

Buzz

March 16th, 2011
10:57 am

He looks like the surfer character off of “Fast times at Ridgeview High”.. Spacollie!!!!

Doug Roberson

March 16th, 2011
10:58 am

Gordon, that’s an interesting point.

Newtonite

March 16th, 2011
10:58 am

Blasphemy, you may be correct in your comparison of NC State & Tech’s health-related programs, but get real! Do you think high school kids who play basketball really care about such things?

Tech Forever

March 16th, 2011
10:58 am

I think the one thing moving in Tech’s favor is the fact that the next guy at State will have to work for Debbie Yow as has been mentioned. She’s aweful.

Dawglasville

March 16th, 2011
10:58 am

Does Hewitt seem like a really good fit for Georgia State? If his family is happy in Atlanta then why not?

Tech Forever

March 16th, 2011
10:59 am

Dawglasville

I’m sure there’s a clause in the contract that says if he gets another job the gravy train ends.

FullMetalJacket

March 16th, 2011
11:03 am

With all due respect, Gordon, AD Yow and the new chancellor at State are very pro-athletics and even as a Tech man I would say the administrative comparisons are a push. True, Williams and Yow did not see eye-to-eye at Maryland, and I like Williams as a coach, but Yow is the one who ended up getting a promotion by going to State. I agree that Williams would not want to go work for Yow, but most anyone else would not have a problem with it. I prefer DRad, but the State administration top-to-bottom is extremely proactive in recognizing the importance of athletics in university promotions.

jomo

March 16th, 2011
11:03 am

Did anyone watch Bobby Cremin’s College of Charleston win in the NIT last night ? they looked great. We SHOULD GO AND BRING BACK Cremins !!!!! NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!

FullMetalJacket

March 16th, 2011
11:07 am

I’ve never met Debbie Yow, but her cred at State is high, and the funds she has available to pay a basketball coach are considerably more than DRad’s. Isn’t she the AD who hired Ralph Friedgen? If not, she at least supported him during her tenure, giving him a generous extension. Again, I like our DRad, but give Yow her due.

Doug Roberson

March 16th, 2011
11:07 am

Jomo, I understand Cremins’ place in Tech’s history, but he’s been to 1 NCAA tournament in his last 11 coaching seasons, I believe. That’s your expectation?

ormewood

March 16th, 2011
11:08 am

Neither job is particularly easy, but I believe it’s easier to win games and attract top players at Tech. For a state with a comparable population to Georgia, NC has nowhere near the in-state talent that GA has produced the last 10-15 years. Only one viable in-state school to compete withe here in GA, and that one doesn’t care too much about hoops, compared to UNC and Duke where hoops is ahead of football on the priority list.

Tech may pay less, but in the end, it will be easier to succeed here compared to Raleigh.

Terrible Terp

March 16th, 2011
11:11 am

Debbie Yow was the AD who hired and kept Ralph Friedgen at UM. I HAVE met her and she’s got a good personality. I imagine she put up with a lot of mess as the first female AD in the ACC. Williams never got along with her, but he’s a difficult man to work with. Love him as our coach, though. But I think as an AD she was about average overall. I don’t know about DRadakovich.

Dr. Nick

March 16th, 2011
11:12 am

Why not bring Cremins back as “interim coach” for 1 or 2 years with Mark Price or Craig Neal as “Head coach in waiting”.That way they could gain some experience and recruit at the same time.JUST SAYING !!

GT Baby

March 16th, 2011
11:12 am

Grant are Mooney’s job to lose………..what say you!

HOME GROWN ONLY

March 16th, 2011
11:17 am

why should Hewitt take any job? If Hewitt were really interested in coaching, he would have taken the St John’s job last year especially with the way GT fans were grumbling. Hewitt admitted he didn’t like it. The contract he had knowing he was better off waiting to get fired was way too attractive and it consumed him.

If he cared at all about winning, it didn’t show.

I believe that is why so many of us GT fans desire GT people involved in the basketball program. Because we know where their heart is instead of someoone coaching who quit trying and could care less.

NC St is tired of having to take a back seat to UNC and DUKE. They are the joke on sportstalk for the last several years. They will throw money at the problem but as we all know, money isn’t going to make you a winner.

GT can hire a coach who loves to coach and loves GT (like Bobby Cremins) and the recruits and their families will see that. I cannot imagine DRAD hiring a fired coach from some place else. But I can see NC St doing just that. I bet if they do, it won’t work.

FullMetalJacket

March 16th, 2011
11:18 am

Doug, while the applicant pool may overlap I think the positions are sufficiently different to cause any real competition or conflict. Listening to my friends from State, I believe State is under much more pressure to hire a big name and make a big splash. They are willing to spend very big bucks to stop the hemorrhaging of recruits and fans in the Triangle. Chancellor Woodson and AD Yow have been very vocal in acknowledging the importance of athletics (esp. hoops) to marketing their university. Like UGA, NC State depends on its athletics to differentiate it from the many other state of NC options in secondary education. (Not meant as a slight at either school, both of which have good academic programs too.)

TomB

March 16th, 2011
11:19 am

Wow, higher expectations at State, imagine that Doug. And, dang, both Hewitt and Lowe knew their situations and only one felt the need to resign. I wonder why?

Heels Rock and Rule

March 16th, 2011
11:19 am

Based upon what I hear from the “children” on this site who appear to be blind fans of one or the other of these two programs, and who insist on building up their program by berating the other program, I would hope that they were not graduates of either school. If so, neither school is doing a good job of educating their students.

FullMetalJacket

March 16th, 2011
11:21 am

Enough of Cremins coming back. I love the guy, know him personally, but it would never work here. He doesn’t want the hassle and pressure, and Tech wouldn’t benefit from it if he did. Cremins loves living and working in Charleston.

School teacher

March 16th, 2011
11:23 am

Heels R&R: Your first sentence is a run-on sentence. I hope you are not a graduate of UNC.

Mighty Georgie mutt

March 16th, 2011
11:25 am

The one benefit we can get from this comparison is to learn from NCSt mistake; DO NOT HIRE AN INNEXPERIENCED/UNDESERVING ALUM. How did Sidney work out for them? They never finished better than 9th in the ACC while he was there!!
Thankfully, it will be DRad making the decision, not some on this blog or other boards.

FullMetalJacket

March 16th, 2011
11:28 am

Homegrown: Are you referring to your stinky weed or the next hoops coach? I don’t think Bobby Cremins had any connection with, affiliation with, or affection for Georgia Tech when he was hired. He grew to love Tech as we grew to love him. He was a New Yorker who played at South Carolina and coached at App State…definitely not home grown. Since NC State’s experience with alumnus Lowe just failed miserably, of course they are willing (and financially able) to look nationwide for their next coach. In the end, coaches don’t usually come to schools because they love the school beforehand (and when they do it usually ends badly for both). The best coach-school relationships develop over time because of chemistry and mutual respect.

Okeefe/Bob

March 16th, 2011
11:30 am

JOMO–no way with Cremins
Fullmetaljacket– you are way off on the number of programs offered at Tech vs N C State. State has way way wat more options.Just like any university.

Gordon

March 16th, 2011
11:33 am

FullMetalJacket,

I’m not questioning Yow’s credentials. I have heard from many sources she is very difficult to work for. It’s one thing if your fan base has unreasonable expectations, it’s another if your boss does.

TomB

March 16th, 2011
11:37 am

Well, Doug everyone defending Hewittand his record at Tech, it seems, always likes to compare Hewitt with Cremins and specifically Cremin’s final four seasons at Tech. So, lets set the record straight. Both men finished with similar conference records during that time(final four seasons), but Cremins teams did manage go to two NIT tournaments during that time. But, this is what bothers me: Cremins felt the need the honorable thing to do, and the best thing for Tech, was to resign. Why did Hewitt not feel the same?

Okeefe/Bob

March 16th, 2011
11:38 am

Bobby Cremins is exactly where he wants to be. He is “retired” but still doing what he loves to do—teaching young kids the game of BB.He left Tech partly because of the constant pressure of big time BB and he sure as heck is not going to get back in to it.Good for Bobby, I say.

Pack Man

March 16th, 2011
11:38 am

TomB If you think it was Sidney’s idea or choice to resign then you are pretty gullible.

collegeballfan

March 16th, 2011
11:40 am

Pay Brad Stevens, the coach at Butler whatever he wants. From the Butler website:

“In just his fourth year as a collegiate head coach and 11 years after leaving a business position as a marketing associate, Brad Stevens sits on top of the list for best basketball coaching starts in NCAA History.

Stevens, who owns two Horizon League Coach of the Year awards, has guided the Bulldogs to 110 wins in his brief career, breaking the previous four-year NCAA Division I record of 107 wins set by Everett Case of North Carolina State from 1947 to 1950. He also holds the NCAA three-year record with 89 victories, and he’s second on the two-year list with 56 wins. This season, he’s guided Butler to a 21-9 campaign and the school’s league-record fifth consecutive Horizon League regular season championship.”

Like I said, pay him what he wants and hire him.

FullMetalJacket

March 16th, 2011
11:43 am

Gordon, you may be right about working for Yow. The only problem I’ve heard about is Williams relationship with her, and I’ve heard that he is difficult to work with also. I do know she was patient with Ralph Friedgen, though I don’t know if she was nagging him all the time or not. Her successor is the one who fired him of course.

TomB

March 16th, 2011
11:44 am

That is kinda my point Pack Man. Both men knew they wouldn’t be retained; the only difference being one had a golden contract(7.1 million reasons) with no incentive to resign.

Okeefe/Bob

March 16th, 2011
11:47 am

NCSU is still trying to recover from the “nightmare” left to them by the “great” Jimmy V.What a disaster.The next coach at N C State better win a Nat Championship or ship out.The next Tech coach better win big also because( as I have just recently realised )the expectations are unreasonably high. Anybody remember Whack Hyder or Dwayne Morrison? Tech is an extremely hard sell and it is extremely difficult to recruit the numbers of good scholar athletes to consistently compete at the highest levels.

FullMetalJacket

March 16th, 2011
11:48 am

I stand corrected: NC State claims to offer undergraduate degrees in about 100 majors; Tech offers about 40. NC State is similarly about twice the size of Tech (30K vs. 15K students). Tech offers a much higher percentage of Ph.D’s per major than State, but a basketball player is not going to be concerned with that generally. Tech wants STUDENT-athletes; State courts student-ATHLETES. I would maintain that Tech is in the far better recruiting position, with less competition and the appeal of a truly prestigious degree.

Petey

March 16th, 2011
11:49 am

3 of NC St’s starters are from Atlanta area HS’s. LBrown (Centennial), RHowell (Wheeler) and RHarrell (?) (Walton). What does that tell you about who has the more attractive program?

TomB

March 16th, 2011
11:51 am

That’s complete Bull Okeefe/Bob. Jimmy V certainly didn’t cause the problems at State, and neither did Cremins for Tech. Both coaches proved that you are 100 percent wrong.

FullMetalJacket

March 16th, 2011
11:52 am

State will pay more because they can and because they have to. Tech will pay less because they must and because they don’t have to pay more. Both schools offer advantages and both are good gigs. I can see NCSU hiring a really big name (in 2006 they went after Calipari) because they need to make an immediate big splash and turn around. They’ve lost to rival UNC about 10 games in a row, I think.

FullMetalJacket

March 16th, 2011
11:57 am

Love him or hate him, Valvano revived State’s athletics program with the unlikely NC in ‘83. He left the program in far greater shape than he inherited it. Since that time they have made some bad decisions, and they chased off their best coach post-Valvano, Sendek, allegedly because he was boring (but had NCAA tourneys in 4 of 5 seasons). The V’s success tailed off after the overachieving ‘83 team, but then again, it had to, didn’t it?

ACCelerator

March 16th, 2011
11:58 am

Petey: We’ve never heard of any of those guys at State. What does that tell you?