Will N.C. State’s decision affect Tech’s future?
N.C. State basketball coach Sidney Lowe resigned on Tuesday, three days after Georgia Tech decided not retain Paul Hewitt.
That’s two coaches out in the ACC, with perhaps a third, Miami’s Frank Haith, on the horizon.
Talking to colleagues at last week’s ACC tournament, many agreed that N.C. State and Miami are arguably two of the toughest jobs in the ACC. Miami because of its apathy and geography. N.C. State because of its expectations and geography.
Before Hewitt was let go, a former colleague said that Georgia Tech and N.C. State would most likely butt heads if they were looking for coaches at the same time.
Perhaps the biggest difference between the two schools is the salary budget. Athletic director Dan Radakovich said the next coach’s salary won’t be “capped” (a question I asked him. Capped wasn’t his word, it was mine). I would be stunned if Tech opens its wallet like N.C. State will allegedly do. A guess on my part, but I’ll be surprised if Tech spends more than $1.7 million per year, which would be a decent raise over what Hewitt was paid. Again, that’s just a guess.
Reports out of the Triangle say that Yow is looking at Arizona’s Sean Miller and Texas A&M’s Mark Turgeon, among other men that are competing in the NCAA tournament. Apparently, N.C. State athletic director Debbie Yow is willing to spend as much as $3 million per yer, which is better than a football coach’s salary at most schools. It also shows to what length N.C. State will go to compete with its across-the-street and established neighbors in Durham and Chapel Hill.
So, which is the better job?
Tech has the fertile recruiting ground of Atlanta, in which is must compete with just one other in-state, power-conference school for recruits. (Lots of out-of-state schools mine the area, too). N.C. State must compete with three other schools in the same conference, not counting East Carolina, Charlotte, and others. Edge: Tech.
Tech will open a new basketball arena in 2012. N.C. State plays in an arena opened in 1999, which is very nice. Edge: Tech.
Tech averaged a few fannies more than 6,000 last year. N.C. State averaged a few fannies less than 14,000. Edge: N.C. State.
Tech has Atlanta, a cosmopolitan city that dozens of Fortune 500 companies call home. N.C. State has Raleigh, a beautiful city where numerous technology companies are headquartered. Edge: Atlanta.
Potential for winning quickly? If Iman Shumpert returns for his senior season, Tech has the potential to be very good next year. Brian Oliver’s shooting form couldn’t be much worse than it was last year. Glen Rice will have another year of maturity to improve his offensive game, Daniel Miller and Jason Morris were solid performers that should improve if they don’t experience the sophomore slump, etc. N.C. State has some talent returning, but not as much as Tech. Edge: Tech.
Of course, money is the thing. If N.C. State is willing to spend $3 million, it has the clear edge.
According to the NCAA, there are prestigious openings at:
Georgia Tech
N.C. State
Texas Tech
Arkansas
There are less-prestigious openings at:
Texas A&M-Corpus Christi
Kennesaw State
Georgia State
Manhattan College
Towson
– Doug Roberson, AJC
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206 comments Add your comment
ACCelerator
March 16th, 2011
6:44 pm
Mooney’s Tech team and Miller’s State team should have some good games over the next decade.
Old Tech & Mountaineer fan in NC
March 16th, 2011
7:19 pm
Without a doubt Jesus is a yellow jacket! Why does Heaven have streets paved with gold?
Supersize that order, mutt
March 16th, 2011
7:42 pm
Too late, FAKE Supersize. He’s already gone, and he already knows me. GET A LIFE, SUCKER !!!
IL Jacket
March 16th, 2011
7:45 pm
Why in God’s name one guy steals another guy’s screen name, I’ll never know.
Supersize that order, mutt
March 16th, 2011
7:47 pm
Beats me too, IL Jacket. I guess it’s some kind of insecurity or penis envy.
Supersize that order, mutt
March 16th, 2011
7:53 pm
I guess since BYRDDAWG had figured out who the real supersize is that others should be able to also. At any rate, I’m logging out for the night, so anything further that is posted in my name is the faker. Pay him no heed. And if any of you see him post, call him on it, because it’s definitely not me. Have a good night, all !!!
JACKETNATION
March 16th, 2011
8:21 pm
Enter your comments here
JACKETNATION
March 16th, 2011
8:21 pm
here is a great read about Bobby Cemins
http://johnstrubel.com/2007/05/18/one-on-one-with-bobby-cremins/
IL Jacket
March 16th, 2011
8:31 pm
You sir, need help.
sasquatch
March 16th, 2011
8:43 pm
Look guys, the job at Tech is really simple. Just show up and play competitively, because we recognize that the cream will likely end up in the Carolinas. Or elsewhere lately……When FSU can come up to Dunwoody High and get one of the best Georgia players under Hewetts nose, that is embarassing. And then FSU strolls in and puts an old-fashioned whooping on Tech, opening up a 17-2 start. C’mon man. Back to the subject – If a coach wants a lot of pressure, he can go to the Carolina’s. If he wants lower expectations and a fat salary and a new arena, come to Tech. He will live longer and not have to regularly beat Duke and UNC to meet fans demands.
ACCelerator
March 16th, 2011
8:45 pm
What the hell?
ACCelerator
March 16th, 2011
8:45 pm
Wichita State, under potential coaching prospect Gregg Marshall, is beating up on Nebraska in NIT.
Jesusislord has SFB
March 16th, 2011
8:48 pm
nuff said
Jesusislord has SFB
March 16th, 2011
8:48 pm
Enter your comments here
jesus is dead
March 16th, 2011
9:00 pm
both school stink
Supersize that order, mutt
March 16th, 2011
9:01 pm
OK, I said I was logging out for the night, but I wanted to check to see if anything else of interest had been posted. WOW, was I surprised. Paud in RDU !!! Who on earth do you think I am? I don’t have a partner named Joseph, nor for that matter, one named Josephine. Hell, I don’t have a partner at all. I think you obviously have the wrong person in mind here. And who the heck is Gary ???
Paul in RDU
March 16th, 2011
9:01 pm
Looks like I have an imposter. Middle school must be out in Georgia
Supersize that order, mutt
March 16th, 2011
9:03 pm
Paul, that’s sorta what I figured. I know you don’t know me personally, and I don’t know you either. Takes all kinds, doesn’t it?
Supersize that order, mutt
March 16th, 2011
9:04 pm
I think it’s way past time that the people in charge of these blogs start screening names for correct email addresses.
ThrowdownG
March 16th, 2011
9:47 pm
I believe that Bruce Pearl will soon be available. If you don’t mind a little dirt in your recruiting…
Coach Grohbo
March 16th, 2011
9:51 pm
The ACC is and will always be controlled with the Tobacco Road schools’ interests at heart. Officiating, rules enforcement, site selection, will always be heavily slanted toward Tobacco Road. Tobacco Road also invests much more resources on basketball.
N.C. State is Tobacco Road. Georgia Tech is not.
Illinois Jacquet
March 16th, 2011
9:56 pm
IL,
Maybe you do know.
Ramblin Recluse Road
March 16th, 2011
10:02 pm
As Tech grad from early 70’s, I predict Noodles will get the job. Cremins has a new arena at the C of C, a semi-retired coaching job, lost to the C of C in Atl, and I don’t think he’d be interested. Noodles is assistant coach at New Mexico. He’s white, the great white hope after Hewitt recruited unfaithful black players who went to the NBA. Maybe Price might get the job. How about Barry? Harpring? Too young? Noodles is in the coaching profession, and that’s why his experience and Tech experience might get him the job…if he wants to leave New Mexico. Tech has nothing in common with NC State. We had the living daylights beat out of us by them in football this past year when they put on a football clinic for us. One of their two colors is red, like Georgia’s red and black. Tech needs to divorce itself from this love affair with black for uniform color of football teams. No, I don’t believe what happens at NC State will affect Tech at all. North Carolina is not like Atlanta at all. I’ve lived in both states, and NC is small potatos compared with Atlanta.
Ramblin Recluse Road
March 16th, 2011
10:16 pm
One reason for for hiring Price or Noodles- they wore those gym short-styled pants with the uniforms, not the long, knee length uniforms they wear now. Another reason is they never chewed gum playing for Cremins, as somer of the black players have done on tv playing for Hewitt, as if they were playing pickup games of street ball in ghettos, maybe a Techwood playground pickup game from the old days of Techwood housing south of North Avenue in the 70’s and 80’s, pre-Olympics days.
GT93
March 16th, 2011
10:27 pm
concerning the size of GT’s new arena, you might consider the fact that it is located on a land-locked inner-city site at the North edge of downtown Atlanta. Aside from the building itself, you have minimums that must be met for street setbacks, # of parking spaces, ADA accessibility … just to name a few. Once all of these are laid out on a Site Plan, I’d say we’re lucky to have a seating capacity near 10k. Similar story for Bobby Dodd Stadium. It is what it is, Byrddawg.
GT just does not have the ability to expand its facilities endlessly because it is an urban campus.
Titus
March 16th, 2011
10:57 pm
You people that denigrate or mcok the comparisons per Raleigh and/or the state of NC are numb to the world and of poor taste. And who the heck cares about Atl’s pomp, circumstance, cosmo traits…and oh yea, utter squalor.
Raleigh’s one of the finest, fastest growing, most beautiful cities in the union. Perfectly located…hrs from the beach, mountains to the west and Pinehurst close by.
The great state of NC takes the cake folks…
LizardLick
March 16th, 2011
11:13 pm
Noodles Neal might one day coach at Georgia Tech, but he’s got to pay some dues as a head coach first. Not that he couldn’t do it, but I don’t think DRad is in an experimental mode. It is true that one way to energize a fanbase is to hire a fan favorite, but the best way is to hire a proven winner who can deliver wins and confidence quickly. I think Richmond’s Mooney or WSU’s Marshall might be on the short list but like many of the best prospects, they are in tourneys right now. I couldn’t go for Grant (who wouldn’t go for us, either) or Amaker (too Duke) or Pearl (NCAA).
LizardLick
March 16th, 2011
11:18 pm
The schools, their host cities, and the positions themselves at Tech and State are both of similarly high quality. Trashing one or the other is pointless. Of course each position will affect the other, AFTER the respective coaches are hired they will have to play each other for years to come. While there may be a little overlap, for the most part Dan Radakovich and Debbie Yow are fishing in different ponds. Tech is using a search consultant, while State is using a search firm. Both must wait for some of their targeted prospects to exit from the NCAA and NIT.
FullMetalJacket
March 16th, 2011
11:20 pm
Disappointed that the AJC hasn’t dug up any more info on the search, but not surprised. I don’t expect any reliable announcements (or leaks, even) until after another round or two of tournament play.
Uga is dead (all of 'em 1-7); Jesus is a Yellow Jacket
March 16th, 2011
11:21 pm
Just the facts.
Dollar Bill
March 16th, 2011
11:50 pm
Petey – it tells me there was some money floating around.
Now VCU just won. I thought they looked like a High Scool team. My list has narrowed. USC coach put team under a cloud with his crap so this game may not be a good display of VCU. Weshall see.
I wait to see my #1 choice and his Spiders.
C C
March 17th, 2011
1:31 am
Funny how so many people are saying that GT “won’t open their wallet”, even though they have no real info or facts to back it up, other than a perception that the GTAA has fallen on hard times financially recently. There are still good income streams, big donors, and reserves. Dan R has made it clear that Hewitt’s buyout will NOT affect the new coach’s salary, and told Doug directly that it won’t be capped.
GT will is much more willing to spend more than these people think. Dan knows the stakes are high with this hire.
C C
March 17th, 2011
1:33 am
I agree with Doug’s “advantaage: Tech” and “advantage: NC St” conclusions, but there is a lot of pure speculation on his part about GT not spending nearly as much as NC State.
Also GT has had several years of consistent sellout crowds during better times. The fan base can and will respond.
C C
March 17th, 2011
1:44 am
BTW things have changed, but back in the day Chris Washburn was admitted to NC St after getting LESS THAN 500 on his S.A.T. Another NC St player had one of the great dumb sports quotes of all tiime:
“Left hand, right hand, it doesn’t matter. I’m amphibious.”
I’ve got nothing against NC St. Loved their Cinderella run back in ‘83. I do hate to see schools go so far to compromise their standards for athletes (good riddance, Bowden!). It was a long time ago, and hopefully wasn’t systemic to their program (ref Bowden again, Jan Kemp). But I just had to find an excuse to share that Shackleford quote…
C C
March 17th, 2011
2:25 am
@ Doug “I understand Cremins’ place in Tech’s history, but he’s been to 1 NCAA tournament in his last 11 coaching seasons”
Doug, 5 of those years were at College of Charleston, so it’s not fair to expect the same level of participation in the NCAAs. They have come very close at least twice there, maybe more than that. In his 5 years there, they have won had FOUR seasons of 22 wins or more, and they just beat Dayton in the opening round of the NIT. More than GT can say this year. Not bad at all for a small school.
True, Cremins only took GT to one NCAA and 3 NITs during his last 7 years (though GT just missed NCAAs at least 2-3 of those years and truly got jobbed at least once). But right before that GT made the NCAAs NINE times in a row, and the Sweet 16 FOUR times during those 9 years…helluva run!
Things weren’t the same after the South Carolina debacle in 1993. Give Cremins credit, he HAS done well at Charleston.
I do NOT think he is the answer for GT now. As CPH favorite Mark Bradley said “You can’t go home again”. And I think he’s happy with the situation in Charleston anyway.
Vidalia Bubba
March 17th, 2011
7:40 am
Any fool would like a job, that paid 3.5 million or 1.7 million. I would coach for a lot less, and put my record in iwo years against those two that left. Try me Dan for a million.
GT is a 4th rate high school team
March 17th, 2011
8:43 am
Sorry Tekis, you remain delusional. Headline should read GT wants winos.
Chuck Allison
March 17th, 2011
9:35 am
Tech has been the laughingstock of the NCAA for the last five years because everyone knew we wanted to dump Hewitt but could not afford to.
I hope we can find someone old enough to remember the Tech basketball program before Hewitt and realize that we did have some basketball tradition at one time.
Jackets 2011 (Robert Barron)
March 17th, 2011
9:42 am
I realize I have some views out of the mainstream of Tech thinking.
Is it fair to hold it against a coach when a player, who has saved the coach’s and team’s rear, doesn’t have a happy ending at Tech?
Anthony Sherrod made the winning shot against Uga one year.
Now don’t we all miss plays like that?
He shot himself his senior year.
Against FSU, we had lost 12 in a row and I was sick and tired of it.
I forgot his name but the son of a past Tech QB stepped up and broke the Nole’s hold on us and won the game, preventing another heart-breaking loss.
Instead of Tech being his oyster, it appears to be like “what have u done for me lately?”
He transfered to Richmond.
Seems like we could have used him somewhere on last year very mediocre team.
So I don’t have Bobby or Paul on any pedestal of admiration because I wonder about both situations.
I have my own reasons but that’s how I see it.
MC
March 17th, 2011
9:53 am
Tech better get this right. If Mark Fox stays at UGA and GT whiffs this hire, GT losses all relevance athletically in this state.
GT Bee
March 17th, 2011
9:54 am
Any chance for Steve Alford..?
Paul N Destin
March 17th, 2011
10:29 am
Ga Tech and relevance?…LOL….good thought though. The Jackets crashed the day Dodd thought he was bigger than the SEC. Coach Bryant made his azz quit just like Nick Saban did , Fulmer,Tubbs,Tommy Bowden and put the Pastor Richt on life support after the blackout.
It's a new day, Doug. Time for a new topic.
March 17th, 2011
10:33 am
I know the leading candidates for the Tech and State jobs are still coaching in tournaments, but this blog is getting really stale. Time to mix it up, Doug.
It's a new day, Doug. Time for a new topic.
March 17th, 2011
10:35 am
Paul N Denial: Made the drive up to Auburn to kill any shrubs lately?
jojo sunshine
March 17th, 2011
10:36 am
There are plenty of names that have been thrown into the mix but only a couple of scenario’s that make sense. One, hire a coach that is not coaching but is looking for the right situation: Larry Brown would be awesome. He has a national championship under his belt from when he and Danny Manning won it at Kansas. He has many NBA final appearances. He has instant credibility. This would be a great hire. Or you still have Billy Gillispie who was ousted at Kentucky. Yes he failed to get Kentucky into the NCAA tournament his last year (I think Kentucky should have went that year but I have a conspiracy theory on that) but he took A&M every year he was there I think. He is a great recruiter and a great coach. You could also go the route of the mid-major coach. I would give Butler’s coach the first nod, then move onto St.Mary’s coach, and might possibly go with the assistant of Butler. I mean they had Thad Matta, Lickliter, and now Stevens. Every assistant they promote to the head job has done very well at Butler. I know Lickliter did not do so hot at Iowa, but look at Thad Matta at Ohio State.
Thanks for reading.
C C
March 17th, 2011
10:51 am
Ken Stallings, you MIGHT be right about comparing the facilities. But have you been to the Zelniak Center? Can you be so definitive in your statements? Can GT fans who say their facilities will be better, be so sure? I think the answer to both is “no”.
There’s a lot we don’t know what the new facility will be like at GT, other then some renderings. It will be very nice, no doubt. Yes, much smaller than RBC. But the stands at RBC looked pretty empty lately too (as did AMC, we all know). The new GT facility will be ready after 1 season of temporarily playing off-campus. As Doug mentioned, it will be made for basketball, not multi-purpose, which does provide a better atmosphere. Philips is cool, but I’d MUCH rather go to a game in a good college BASKETBALL facility, than a general-purpose arena.
BTW NCSU isn’t 2nd in enrollment in the ACC, it’s 3rd. (You forgot about Maryland.) But yes, it’s much larger than GT and offers more majors. I’m not one who argues that GT provides a broad spectrum of majors. It doesn’t, but it’s better than SOME people give it credit for. Of course it does not have the really athlete-friendly majors of a Free Shoes University, for example.
IMO your characterizations of Lowe, Sendek, Hewitt and fan support are WAY off: Sendek did MUCH better than ACC than Hewitt overall. GT fans loved Hewitt after 2004 and 2005. There was PLENTY of fan support. But the last 6 years have been really bad, similar to Lowe, and BOTH fan bases have responded similarly. While Lowe “officially” resigned, a lot of fans wanted him out last year, and Yow made it clear his results weren’t good enough when it ended for him this year:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/03/15/2142962/sidney-lowe-resigns-as-nc-state.html
Sendek didn’t make a final four but made the NCAAs his last 5 years, 2nd round 4 times, Sweet 16 once. And it was made clear the fans didn’t want him despite that. With Hewitt we’ve had FOUR losing seasons OVERALL (not just ACC) in the last 6 years, have ranked DEAD LAST in ACC winning percentage over the last 7 years (and the last 6 years). So it’s ludicrous to say that the NCSU fans who ran off winning Sendek were somehow ‘more reasonable’.
Will post some numbers on Sendek and Hewitt’s records shortly. The results speak for themselves.
At least we can all agree to hate on UNC and Dook…
C C
March 17th, 2011
10:59 am
@ Gordon “Even with Hewitt, we’ve been getting better players and winning more than NC State for years.”
@ Doug “Gordon, that’s an interesting point.”
Not so fast, my friends! Only during the Sidney Lowe era — the last 5 years, just under half of CPH’s career at GT — has GT been “winning more”…and not by much. If you tally up the last 6-7 years, GT is 12th of 12 in the ACC.
During the first 6 years of CPH’s GT tenure, Sendek did better than CPH in the ACC, even though that was the much more succesful part of CPH’s time at GT. Herb S. didn’t make a final four run, but did get to the NCAAs his last 5 years, and at least to the 2nd round 4 of those years. During those 6 years, GT made the NCAAs 3 times.
Now if you consider ONLY the last 5 years, when things dropped off even more at NC State than they did at GT, then we’ve done slightly better. Or, you could say, CPH has sucked slightly less than Sidney Lowe, on average.
GT HAS been getting better players throughout for the most part, but what has CPH achieved with them? The numbers don’t lie:
Last 11 years (CPH era):
NCSU 76-100 ACC — 5 NCAAs, 2 NITs
GT 72-104 ACC — 5 NCAAs, 1 NIT
The numbers show the bIg difference for both GT and NC State, if you break down those 11 years into the “Sendek era and “Lowe era”
Hewitt’s first 6 years (end of the Sendek era):
NCSU 51-45 ACC — 5NCAAs
GT 43-53 ACC — 3NCAAs, 1 NIT
Hewitt’s last 5 years (Lowe era):
GT 29-51 ACC — 2 NCAAs
NCSU 25-55 ACC — 2 NITs
C C
March 17th, 2011
11:06 am
Jackets 2011,
Interesting quotes from Bilas earlier. He’s usually pretty objective and insightful. One can’t help but wonder if, as a Duke alum, he likes tweaking NCSU for Duke’s benefit. Maybe not, but it’s possible. JB does a good job keeping any homer-biases to himself. The anti-Lou-Holtz, I guess.
This year Bilas rightfully stood up for VT. Agree with Jackets 2011 and Bilas about VT not having much to complain about in 2009, but plenty to complain about this year.
(Speaking of Duke alums and the NCAAs: After Duke’s loss in the opening round of the 2004 Final Four in San Antonio, we saw Chris Duhan buying some shots for folks in a bar, so he was being a good sport. At least he was after he had been drowning his sorrows for a while…)
C C
March 17th, 2011
11:11 am
AtlantaWolf, yes it was quiet this year at GT games for the most part, but RBC looked dead when I watched them play GT too. Obviously BOTH fan bases were unhappy this year. But there’s a reason AMC was dubbed the Thrillerdome by Brad Nessler. When GT is doing well, it rocks. Absolutely nothing like you’ve described. I have no doubt that NSCU fans get loud and RBC is awesome when they are doing well, but there’s no need to fabricate BS to denigrate GT to make yourself feel better.
If you want to see wine and cheese fans, you know you can go to a UNC footlball game for that. Slide rule jokes are exceptionally lame at this point. We expect (and continue to receive) that sort of junk from some of the less-creative SEC fans. Call us nerds if you must…We’ll laugh all the way to the bank. Or to the International Space Station.
Paul in RDU
March 17th, 2011
11:14 am
jojo sunshine
Larry Brown? You can’t possibly be serious. The man is 71 years old – and a Carolina grad to boot.