Let’s do a mailbag! And how would Tech fit in the SEC?
That’s right I used an exclamation point in the headline. That’s how excited I am about doing our second e-mail mailbag.
Send me any question you may have about any Georgia Tech sport and I’ll do my best to provide you an insightful answer.
I’ll post the answers on a blog on Tuesday at lunchtime. That’s Tuesday at lunchtime. There was some confusion about the publication of the answers when we did the last mailbag.
—
Now, on to the pie-in-the-sky topic that esteemed colleague (to borrow Mark Bradley’s phrase) Tony Barnhart broached last week.
As many of you know, expansion is the topic du jour for several conferences. The Big 10 has openly said it’s considering it. The SEC said it has reviewed scenarios. I await an answer from the ACC if it too has reviewed or is reviewing scenarios.
Should one or two of the conferences make a move, Barnhart suggested that the SEC may turn to the ACC and try and lure Clemson and Georgia Tech, among others, into the fold.
While I think that Clemson and FSU (the other possibility) would be natural fits because of the stadium sizes and geographic footprint of the fan bases, I’m not sure that Tech would. I’m also not sure that they would want to, unless it came to that.
Financially, it’s a no-brainer. Thanks to ESPN’s largess, SEC schools pull in the second-highest per school revenues behind those from the Big 10, which has its own TV network funding the athletics department.
The ACC is in the process of negotiating new TV deals for football and men’s basketball. It’s unlikely to pull in the $2 billion over 15 years that ESPN pledged to the SEC.
While Tech was once a founding member of the SEC, I would be very surprised to see the dominoes fall in such a way that find Tech back in the fold.
Some comparative stats, courtesy of Wikipedia (so take them with a grain of salt). These are meant for talking points only:
College/Metro pop./Year founded/Affiliation/Enrollment/Joined
University of Florida/ (114,916)/1853/Public/51,474/1932
University of Georgia/ (113,398)/1785/Public/34,180/1932
University of Kentucky/ (282,114)/1865/Public/26,054/1932
University of South Carolina/ (127,029)/1801/Public/27,488/1991
University of Tennessee/ (184,802)/1794/Public/30,410/1932
Vanderbilt University/ (596,462)/1873/Private/12,093/1932
Western Division
University of Alabama/ (90,221)/1831/Public/27,014/1932
University of Arkansas/ (73,372)/1871/Public/19,849/1991
Auburn University/ (56,088)/1856/Public/24,530/1932
Louisiana State University/ (223,689)/1860/Public/28,810/1932
University of Mississippi/ (17,265)/1848/Public/15,289/1932
Mississippi State University/ (24,187)/1878/Public/17,824/1932
Georgia Tech/5,000,000+/1885/Public/12,966/1885
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432 comments Add your comment
Boo-Boo
April 29th, 2010
2:53 pm
What asshat calls thyself “Bay Bay.” Should be called Boo-Boo after getting your ass handed to you 9 out of the last 10 tries. Stick to baseball because your football program sucks.
BULLDOGMANIAC
April 29th, 2010
2:54 pm
Tech would be the bottom dwellers of the SEC forever and ever!
DawginLex
April 29th, 2010
2:56 pm
GT in the SEC?
Basketball-top 4 right in with UK, UT, Vandy
Baseball-top 4 right in with LSU, Florida, Arkansas, UGA most years
Football-3rd or 4th in the East behind Florida and UGA and maybe SC depending on the year. Alabama, LSU would destroy them and Arkansas and Ole Miss would be competitive. They hang their hats on beating SEC schools when the reality is they only beat Vandy and MSU consistently.
Football-conference USA much better fit
Sweet Home Alabama
April 29th, 2010
2:56 pm
I would welcome them back and will personally put in a good word.
The Varsity would be attracted to the Bama clentelle.Plus we would crush the NERDS just like to do the MUTTS.Its all good when you are on top of the world.Joking aside Tech is a Fine school and it would help our conference grade point average.
ROLL TIDE ROLL…………
supersize that order, mutt
April 29th, 2010
2:58 pm
UGAG Student, what immature banter are you referring to? If it’s that I slam you mutts whenever I get the chance, well, I hate to tell you, but that’s been going on for 100+ years by alumni of all ages. However, if you read my posts, you know that I also post facts, and not just opinions.
thoughts
April 29th, 2010
3:00 pm
L.S. – Why would the SEC want an odd number of teams. That doesnt make sense.
DawgForLife
April 29th, 2010
3:01 pm
Does anybody remember why they got out of the SEC to begin with? GREED……In the earlt to mid-60’s they decided they wanted to keep all their bowl money and not split the pot with any conference. That was about as dumb a decision as they could have ever made. They made their bed, now let them lay in it. They’re just lucky the ACC expanded, because without their revenue they’d probably be out of the athletics business by now.
HugoStiglitz
April 29th, 2010
3:01 pm
UGA Student, that is great. I also know a guy who went to Mercer who started his own business after college and is worth a few million dollars now. It doesnt mean Mercer is a better college then Harvard. Every college has examples of successful graduates. It doesnt make them all equal.
bigbad john
April 29th, 2010
3:02 pm
If tech were in the SEC they’d be better than the majority of the league, they’d be better than Vandy, Kentucky, Auburn, Tenn, Arkansas,
Miss State, Ole Miss, etc etc etc, I just hate when SEC fans build the conference up to be something that it is not. Sure its one of the elites, but Jeaze, its got 2 or 3 powerhouses every single year, the rest are just average football teams.
Sam
April 29th, 2010
3:02 pm
UGA adding a medical school is going to help a lot.
Also, Techies, better watch out, UGA is getting into the engineer business as well. http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/011710/uga_550617768.shtml
Let’s see where would I rather spend my college years? Athens or Atlanta?
Nickj0321
April 29th, 2010
3:03 pm
LOL at the dumb dawgs on this blog…did you guys just wake up? I know its tough working nights at McDonalds…
BigTimeTechFan
April 29th, 2010
3:03 pm
Mailbag question:
How did Tech’s final strength of Schedule rank last year, as compared to say UGA. What about next years schedule (preseason of course).
Tech moving to SEC – That would be interesting. See how Tech hard nose in your face, power/speed football would match against the SEC speed tactical, I would rather run around you then hit you football. I no Tech’s had pretty good SEC record the last couple of years, but would like to see what it would be like adding the real good SEC teams to the schedule. I Think Bama will play us in a couple of years.
bigbad john
April 29th, 2010
3:06 pm
Do we really care about softball and gymnastics anyways? The correct answer is NO! its all about football, so quit talking about the other stuff.
supersize that order, mutt
April 29th, 2010
3:10 pm
Sam, adding a satellite campus to the Medical College of Georgia in Athens won’t help UGAG athletics in the least. Besides, that addition was an empire-building move by Adams, supported unfortunately by Purdue. Putting a satellite campus there makes absolutely no sense at all, especially with all the other budget crunching going on in this state. I live in Augusta, and I can guarantee you that that move is not looked upon favorably here by even the UGA alums. Most of the students who will be enrolling in that satellite campus when it opens next year were PLACED there by the MCG administration; very few entering students want to go there. It is a total waste. However, that discussion is not for a sports blog; I just wanted to throw that in for your illumination.
AlwaysAVol
April 29th, 2010
3:12 pm
My Divisions:
SEC Elite: Alabama, Florida, LSU and Ole Miss Rotate every Year, Georgia, Tennessee, and Kentucky alternate every five or six years.
Sec Upper Middle Class: Georgia, Tennessee, Auburn, Ole Miss, LSU, Arkansas
Sec Lower Middle Class: South Carolina, Kentucky
SEC Homecoming Opponents Class: Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, GA Tech
HOUDAWG
April 29th, 2010
3:13 pm
Hey RAMBLE ON !!! And GT would ” man up ” to UF …….. what a joke !
Yeah , come back to the SEC & bring that HS Offense with ya …….. you’ll get slapped sideways to silly, at least in the 8 (or so) conference games. Welcome ……..
Ramblin Wrecker
April 29th, 2010
3:14 pm
I guess I don’t see the downside for the SEC or GT if they were included in a theorhetical expansion of the SEC.
GT would benefit financially and competitively (getting their brand more recognition and TV coverage) and the SEC would benefit from having an SEC team in the biggest SEC fan city (Atlanta). I’m sure individual SEC teams would like the opportunity to play two games in the state of Georgia (rich recruiting grounds) to get more exposure there.
The ACC has yet to compete nationally and if super conferences are on the way, the ACC will fade into obscurity. Would GT want to REALLY be in an also ran conference? What team (other than maybe Texas) would the SEC prefer than GT (along with FSU, Clemson & Miami)?
Ripped Off
April 29th, 2010
3:16 pm
The other day my little boy put a quarter in a machine to get one of those sticky eyeball things. He opened the little egg and started crying. I looked in his hand and found a brand new ACC chapionship ring. I want my quarter back!
Mama Says
April 29th, 2010
3:17 pm
If the SEC pulls Clemson, Fla St and or Miami—–Tech and Vr Tech would be destined to be in the ACC championship game every year—Tech would be crazy to leave the ACC. The ACC would fill those spots with Memphis, South Florida and a third very good mid tier team and run away with the money.
It will not happen for Tech now
April 29th, 2010
3:21 pm
Quick facts: Tech left the SEC in the 60s, so as to be able to recruit as many players as possible. The SEC had installed a player qty limitation. Tech, obviously, with their more narrow engineering track ( my dad and two uncles and grand pa were yellow jackets) had to deal in LARGER NUMBERS of players in order to be “competitive” by then. DODD DID THIS.
Anyway, over the years the NCAA tightened up all the schools with one standard qty on recruiting and it was of no use then for Tech to be w.o. a conference tie in. By the late 70s, they tried to re gain entry and the western SEC schools said no. LSU, Ole Miss and MSU BLOCKED it when UGA tried valiantly ( ole boy politics due to family tie ins like mine ) to allow Tech back. It failed.
Tech then joined the pathetic ACC. See? UGA has never feared Tech and in fact wanted them back in the conference. Tulane ALSO LEFT when tech did. In the good old days Tulane and tech and Vandy had higher standards than they do now. Tech then offered NO REC majors like they do now and Vandy did not allow their boys to attend Lipscomb College in Nashville then, in order to get 75% of their P.E teacher ( ED. Major ) credits, like they do now.
How many Tech players are majoring in Recreation??? AKA Playground Science. What were the courses of study for the three NFL drafted players? Be honest. Most REAL tech men that I know well would reveal this fact ………..but the UNEDUCATED kids that play on this site will just scream that UGA is full of jail birds. Fine. The kids here have not a clue about ANY college curriculum.
Most of the bloggers on this site are kids that attend NO university or NO Institute and it is they who post all the vitriol on here.
Gooooooooooooooooo Dogs. Sic em!!
Go Dogs.
supersize that order, mutt
April 29th, 2010
3:27 pm
“It will not happen,” sorry, bud but get your facts straight. The reasons you listed for Tech leaving the SEC are correct, as is your claim that the western schools did not want Tech back. HOWEVER, Dooley was the number one opponent to allowing Tech back in. Tech had Bear’s backing, endorsement in fact, and he could have swayed LSU, if not the Mississippi schools, but Dooley ruled the roost at that time, and he wouldn’t allow it. That is fact, NOT conjecture; it was printed in all the newspapers.
Dawgs Win Again
April 29th, 2010
3:34 pm
I wouldn’t call tech beating UGA ONCE (by 3 pts) legally since 1990 having “MIXED RESULTS” Dougie
HugoStiglitz
April 29th, 2010
3:36 pm
It will not happen, Tech doesnt offer a Recreation degree. You keep making stuff up though, if it makes you feel better.
supersize that order, mutt
April 29th, 2010
3:37 pm
“It will not happen,” some other facts you might want to consider. I don’t know where you got the idea that Tech had a degree program in recreation of “park sciences,” but take a look at the OFFICIAL list of Tech degree programs ( http://www.gatech.edu/degrees/ ) and you won’t see anything that could even be construed as that.
Bobby Cremins
April 29th, 2010
3:39 pm
Mississippi State’s stadium seats 55,000 the same as Bobby Dodd. Vanderbilt seats about 35,000. I believe Ole Miss’ stadium capacity is comparable to Tech’s. I think Tech would fit in just fine with the rest of the SEC.
Another History lesson for you young uns
April 29th, 2010
3:40 pm
Tech’s HISTORICAL RIVALS and I call out any tech man over age of 50 to dispute this:
UT- Bobby Dodd’s university
Auburn- Old, old, hard nosed rough, tough game over the eons. Not lately and not really since the 70s. Tech played Auburn about 8 or 9 years ago and was expected to blow Auburn out and they um got slaughtered and Auburn was so so that year. Great rivalary this used to be. Long time ago this WAS HUGE.
ALABAMA- Darwin Holt destroyed Chic Granning on a late hit and they had to rebuild the kid’s head. Bear Bryant was brutal in those days and his style and Dodd’s were as different as night and day. This game was BIG BOY BALL ………..i was around 9-14 in those days.
LSU- was huge BUT Dodd did not like going out west and they (LSU) did not like playing him in Atlanta and they are part to blame for Tech not being allowed back in the CLUB.
Ole Miss- Bad blood here also and same reasons …………..Ole Miss Coach Johnny Vaught was KING in those days and he rarely, rarely, rarely played Tech. Also Ole Miss BLOCKED Tech getting back in the CLUB. LSU and Ole Miss won the NC in 59 and 60 and they could command attention and get it. Bobby Dodd was second fiddle to them and the world knew it.
UGA might have been less of a rival in the 50s until Dooley DESTROYED Dodd’s DOMINANCE and Bobby tried to go independent where he could recruit UNLIMITED numbers of players in thos days.
I am a UGA man and now you young uns w.o. a clue have the skinny. Tech by joining the ACC was a giant step down for any tech grad back in the 60s and they have always known what I have said here on this blog. They are ashamed of the ACC and so MUCH desire getting back in THE CLUB.
Gooooooooooooooooooooooo Dogs.
supersize that order, mutt
April 29th, 2010
3:40 pm
“Dawgs win again,” first there was nothing illegal about any of Tech’s wins over the mutts, which you imply in your post. But regardless, I guess you consider the SEVERAL 3-point wins by the mutts over the Jackets during the years to be beatdowns, but any win (by no matter how many points) over the mutts to be a fluke. You are a typical hypocrite.
Paul
April 29th, 2010
3:43 pm
Doug – your enrollment figure for Georgia Tech is way off. It was 20,200 last fall.
Another History lesson for you young uns
April 29th, 2010
3:44 pm
Tech does offer a Liberal Arts curriculum, so get real. Park Science or Park Management or what ever tech cllas it ain’t Nuclear Physics.
Why is the truth so hard to come to grips with?? My nephew is in the MBA prgoram there right now and he told me this. He went under grad to Duke.
wiley
April 29th, 2010
3:45 pm
You guys do realize that over the last 15 years that Georgia Tech has a winning record against SEC opponents. Do you not remember us beating that hyped up auburn team in 2003? and 2005? We have a problem with UGA for sure but like I said we have a winning record against the SEC over the last 15 years. The evidence clearly suggest that we could compete in the SEC…take off the red colored glasses.
supersize that order, mutt
April 29th, 2010
3:47 pm
“Another history lesson,” why did you omit the fact that the last two times Tech played Auburn (in the past 10 years), Auburn was HEAVILY favored, but Tech won both times. Also, Tech didn’t join the ACC in the 60s; we were an independent for several years, and then a member of the late Metro conference, before joining the ACC in 1978. I for one am not ashamed of the ACC, but I would rather be back in the SEC, since we have more natural rivals in the SEC. I see no reason to be ashamed of Tech’s ACC championships in basketball, football, baseball, golf, and women’s tennis during the years of ACC membership. A championship in any sport in any conference is always something to be proud of.
Yakko
April 29th, 2010
3:48 pm
Why are all the arguments against Tech going SEC based on academics? This is an athletic conference realignment we’re talking about, not Academic Bowl or anything? How would playing South Carolina and Arkansas in football impact academics at Tech negatively?
Thought you guys were supposed to be smart.
supersize that order, mutt
April 29th, 2010
3:49 pm
“Another history lesson,’ once again I refer you to the link listing ALL of Tech’s degree programs….. http://www.gatech.edu/degrees/ . Yes, Tech offers SOME liberal arts degrees, but recreation and park science are not among them. I don’t care what your nephew says.
wiley
April 29th, 2010
3:56 pm
Another History lesson for you young uns…your history is way off. Tech didn’t join the ACC until 1978. I highly doubt the validity of your argument. Also I can speak from personal experience that liberal arts at tech are not easy. Sure they are easy when compared to Nuclear Physics and other engineering fields but the work load is still absolutely harder than most traditional liberal arts school. Georgia Tech professors make every class hard…ask anyone who has been there for an undergrad education. There are no easy classes…even health at GT is hard.
Dawg '88
April 29th, 2010
3:57 pm
They would be beaten like rented mules by the top teams but also lose occassionally to the others in the league to have few winning seasons…other than 7-5 or 7-6 records from time to time.
Hayseed Dixie
April 29th, 2010
3:57 pm
T3,
Selling Rophenol, red beer-bongs, Depends undergarments and Date-Rape How-To pamphlets atAthens tailgates would also make “millions”.
Just cause it makes money doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. Check out Division I football playoffs for further evidence of this.
HugoStiglitz
April 29th, 2010
4:01 pm
Yakko, its because this would not just be an athletic conference realignment. I would be in favor of a hybrid alignment like Notre Dame has where we could play football in the SEC but remain in the ACC for everything else but it doesnt work that way. Academics are part of the conference realignment which is why the Big Ten wont pursue a school like West Virginia. Its also why several schools would not join the SEC if offered. There is academic pride in a conference just like there is football or basketball pride in a conference.
wiley
April 29th, 2010
4:04 pm
Yakko, as someone who has worked in college athletics, compliance specifically, I can tell you that academics will be affected. In order to recruit like other SEC teams we will have to lower our academic standards. See when a student athlete looks at GT they have to be cleared academically, we refer to it as clearing the hill, by the admissions office and they have standards above the minimum NCAA requirements. You cant even get a commitible offer from GT with out being cleared by the hill. Recruiting at GT is not easy and Academics would absolutely have to be sacrificed in order to compete in the SEC. There was a recent report in the AJC that showed Georgia Tech had the highest football SATs out of all public universities…this wasn’t a coincidence. Hope that cleared up your misconceptions..
RAMBLE ON!!!
April 29th, 2010
4:06 pm
wiley speaks the truth. Thank God for the exam curve.
Dooley's record vs Dodd
April 29th, 2010
4:07 pm
Help me Jackets …………Dooley as UGA head man NEVER LOST to BOBBY DODD, so why, why, why would be block??? tech trying to regain entry into the SEC? He OWNED TECH, HE OWNED DODD and his Jack Daniels bottles and HE OWNED State of Ga in recruiting. WHY?
That is dumb old pal. You need to go out and hit a golf ball.
RAMBLE ON!!!
April 29th, 2010
4:09 pm
well, I was refering to wiley’s other post.
I don’t think we have to lower our acedmic standards to recruit. We’ve had some pretty good recruiting years recently. Two 1st round draft picks here recently wiley
Dawgs Win Again
April 29th, 2010
4:11 pm
If you need to call up Joe Hamilton about the inelgible players from 98-00, be my guest. So what I said was correct, other than 08, tech hasn’t beaten UGA legally since 1990. Those games can be thrown out and you know it. If it were inelgible UGA players, you know darn well the nerds would not count the games. One win in two decades haha
allenlaw
April 29th, 2010
4:13 pm
The best SEC scenario is to have the three leading Florida Schools and Ga. Tech and send South Carolina back to the ACC. Imagine a 14-team SEC. Move Vandy to the West and add FSU to the West. Add Miami and Tech to the East. Now that would be a great conference.
supersize that order, mutt
April 29th, 2010
4:14 pm
“Dooley’s record,” I have no idea why Dooley blocked Tech’s re-entrance into the SEC, but the fact is that he did. You will have to ask him his reasons for doing so. If you doubt what I am saying, check some newspaper archives; you will see that what I say is true.
Um, ah, like um, How is tech's GRAD rate??
April 29th, 2010
4:14 pm
SATs matter not ONCE the kid is in school. . What does the student achieve at a university like UGA or AUburn or at Ga Tech? Can he do the work and if not, then why IS HE THERE? Was he like with CPH just brought there to play ball? A kid ( JOCKS from poor areas ) SHOULD BE given special attention in order to advance fairly and squarely.
Tech does not graduate their kids and is in the BOTTOM nationally with this. It is either scandalous because they were ill equipped intellectually in ths first place OR they are left to their own devices so long as they remain current students in order to play ball, then turn pro. Which is it tech??
Your graduation % is scandalous and speaks volumes about the insitute’s overall values. Ball is first, school is secondary. When do Dwyer and Morgan and Burnett graduate and with what degree??
supersize that order, mutt
April 29th, 2010
4:16 pm
“Dawgs win again,” I guess all UGAG’s wins during the Jan Kemp and Jim Harrick eras were illegal too, so they shouldn’t be counted. Well ???
wiley
April 29th, 2010
4:17 pm
Oh I know. Those two kids were actually very smart, and just happened to be exceptional football players. Unfortunately, most elite level players are not always the smartest individuals…its just the way it is. I just don’t think we can find enough talented and smart kids to have SEC caliber D and O lines with the current academic standards. In order to compete in the SEC we would need to recruit more elite athletes and build depth like UGA, UF, Alabama, etc in the trenches. Can I get an amen? Look at their lines…they are all stock full of four star players. We would have to recruit like that if we want to compete…just my opinion.
wiley
April 29th, 2010
4:19 pm
Um, ah, like um, How is tech’s GRAD rate??….our graduation rate for regular students is in the 70s. It just shows how hard the curriculum is here…you wont understand unless you were an undergrad at Tech. Nice try though.
Get Your Facts Straight
April 29th, 2010
4:21 pm
The FACT about Dodd & GT leaving the SEC had to do with
Dodd’s belief that, if GT offered a student-athlete a scholarship, if that SA got hurt and was unable to play any more college ball, that GT should HONOR that scholarship and let the SA keep the scholarship, continue his education at GT, and not take away what had been granted.
The rest of the SEC, especially Bama, chose to limit the number of scholarships, but keep the right to take away the scholarship if the SA was injured and could no longer play ball.
The “Bama” approach resulted in what Dodd abhored, essentially scholarships became a tryout system. Bama’s approach was to offer lots of scholarships, then cut those scholarships down during Spring or Fall practices, essentiall a tryout system.
Does “The Junction Boys” ring a bell with anyone ??
Thats why Dodd wanted and needed unlimited scholarships, to offset Bama’s and the SEC’s “plantation” method of recruiting.
Bryant gave Dodd his word that he would press the SEC to follow that rule by having the Alabama President advocate for it. Bryant “stabbed” Dodd in the back by going back on his commitment to Dodd.
For Dodd to keep his commitment to the scholarships awarded, he knew GT would end up in a losing proposition, maintaining an academic & athletic standard that the SEC was unwilling to follow.
BehindEnemyLines
April 29th, 2010
4:23 pm
Said it before, I’ll say it again — please trade Clemson for Vandy. Both schools would be a better fit in the other’s conference. As for GT in the SEC, that would be a horrible mistake for GT in numerous ways, surely TPTB have more sense than that.