Class A Blog: New Divided Top 5, Minor shake ups in Top 16 Power Rankings

By S. Thomas Coleman
For the AJC

Here’s the AJC.com Class A Blog Divided Top 5 after Week 8 of the season (overall AJC/Georgia High School Football Daily ranking in parenthesis), and we link to the GHSA/MaxPreps Power Ranking site as well: http://www.ghsa.net/2013-ghsa-power-ratings-class-a-football.   Additionally, we provide a list of the top 16 teams, public and private. Last week’s power ranking for each team is in parenthesis, and a list of teams that dropped out of the coveted top 16 is at the bottom of the list.

And we’re still efforting to bring you another installment of “Coackspeak” before we update the blog on Thursday.

PUBLIC

1. Seminole County (3) (6-0, 2-0). Seminole County beat up on Stewart County (0-6, 0-3) 38-0, and will take on another struggling program on Friday when Calhoun County (1-5, 0-2) visits Donalsonville.

2. Emanuel County Institute (8) (5-2, 2-0). ECI mauled Treutlen (3-3, 2-1) 42-15 in Soperton, setting up a showdown with No. 5 Johnson County (6-0, 1-0) in two weeks for the Region 3 – Division B title. The Bulldogs are off this week.

3. Marion County (7) (6-0, 3-0). The Eagles fought off St. Anne-Pacelli (5-1, 2-1) 28-14 last week, setting up a big game in Region 4 on Friday when defending Class A public school runner up Dooly County (4-2, 3-0) pays a visit to Buena Vista.

4. Clinch County (10) (3-3, 2-0). The Panthers jumped back into the Top 10 with a 30-24 win over previously unbeaten Irwin County (4-1-1, 1-1), ranked No. 5 at the time. Clinch County will travel to Rochelle Friday to face Wilcox County (2-4, 1-2).

5. Charlton County (NR) (5-2, 3-0). Charlton County won its third straight last week, 38-8 over Lanier County (2-5, 1-2), and will take the week off before hitting the road Oct. 25 for a battle with No. 10 Clinch County in Homerville.

Another half dozen to watch: Claxton (4-2, 2-0), Commerce (4-3, 2-1), Dooly County (4-2, 3-0), Irwin County (4-1-1, 1-1), No. 5 Johnson County (6-0, 1-0), Mitchell County (4-3, 3-0).

POWER RANKINGS (Top 16 only)

1. Marion County (4)

2. Seminole County (1)

3. Charlton County (3)

4. Clinch County (8)

5. Irwin County (2)

6. Johnson County (5)

7. Emanuel County Institute (9)

8. Commerce (6)

9. Trion (11)

10. Claxton (14)

11. Dooly County (7)

12. Lincoln County (16)

13. Gordon Lee (11)

14. Mitchell County (NR)

15. Hawkinsville (13)

16. Hancock Central (9)

Who Fell Out: Turner County (15)

PRIVATE

1. Eagle’s Landing Christian Academy (1) (5-0, 2-0). The Chargers romped over Mt. Vernon Presbyterian (1-6, 0-3), 61-0, and will host Our Lady of Mercy (2-4-2-1) Friday.

2. Aquinas (2) (6-0, 2-0). The Irish exorcized 40 years’ worth of demons in impressive fashion, with a 42-14 thumping of Lincoln County (3-2, 2-1) in Lincolnton. Aquinas could all but wrap up the Region 7 title on Friday when Wilkinson County (3-3, 2-0) visits Augusta.

3. Prince Avenue Christian (6) (6-1, 3-0). The Wolverines used big plays to overcome Commerce 28-14. PAC will visit Dacula Friday to face Hebron Christian Academy (2-4, 1-3).

4. Landmark Christian (4) (7-0, 3-0). The War Eagles easily handled Strong Rock (2-4, 0-2), 34-12, in Locust Grove last week. Landmark will welcome Pace Academy (4-2, 1-1) to downtown Fairburn for Homecoming on Friday.

5. Mt. Paran Christian (9) (5-1, 2-0). The Eagles held off Whitefield Academy (2-4, 0-3), 28-17, last week in Mableton. Mt. Paran will hit the road again Friday when it travels to Roswell to face Fellowship Christian (4-2, 1-1).

Another half dozen to watch: Brookstone (3-3, 1-2), Christian Heritage (5-2, 2-1), Darlington (5-1, 2-0), George Walton Academy (4-2, 1-1), Mt. Pisgah Christian (6-0, 2-0), St. Anne-Pacelli (5-1, 1-1).

POWER RANKINGS (Top 16 only)

1. Darlington (2)

2. Landmark Christian (3)

3. Mt. Pisgah Christian (4)

4. Eagle’s Landing Christian Academy (1)

5. Aquinas (5)

6. Mt. Paran Christian (7)

7. Christian Heritage (6)

8. Prince Avenue Christian (14)

9. Calvary Day (8)

10. St. Anne-Pacelli (11)

11. Brookstone (NR)

12. George Walton Academy (13)

13. Savannah Christian (9)

14. Athens Academy  (NR)

15. Our Lady of Mercy (NR)

16. Pace Academy (15)

Who Fell Out: Holy Innocents (16), Whitefield Academy (12)

47 comments Add your comment

Swamp Lizard

October 15th, 2013
5:19 pm

@ STC …. I have to say that you are SPOT ON with your Top 5 Public / Private. I’m not buying Johnson Co at #5 in the rankings ( AJC Top 10 ) …. combined opponent record is 7-27 and the 14-7 win over Sav Christian isn’t impressive now. I think ECI will beat them by 20+. I do want to talk to you about the “Power Rankings” ….. Marion Co #1 on the Public side? Darlington, Landmark, Mt Pisgah 1,2,& 3 on the Private side? …. over ELCA? This is what I don’t like about these Power Rankings and why I prefer the Maxwell Ratings. I think you get a better “seeding” 1 thru 16. I will save this and compare both when I get the Maxwell Ratings later. I know this is only week 8 and we still have a lot of football left to go, but what you have right now isn’t close to your Top 5 ( well the Public side is “close” ). I know you have your issues with the Maxwell ratings, but at season end, it’s all what you done this football season …. not what you’ve done in the past. I do think you would agree with me that these Power Rankings are not “seeding” these teams from best to #16.

Tiger Patpaw

October 15th, 2013
6:26 pm

The GHSA’s use of the MAXpreps Power Ranking is BOGUS for seeding of playoff positions. The only thing it does is encourage CLASS A teams to schedule (and perhaps loose to) higher class teams and hope the higher class team continues to win. I get that it’s all about enticing pre-region schedule strength. But continuing to get points from a loss?

Darlington beat a traditionally strong out-of-state program, lost to a AAA contender and beat a AA bunny. Granted, they’ve done what was needed since in 6A, but C’mon Man. Love me some Tigers but 4 private and 3 public undefeated teams behind us?

The perfect storm would appear to be a killer pre-region schedule with a quirky win or two, a weak region and home games to the Dome.

At least the Maxwell software eventually has memory loss.

Oh well, it will all work out on 100 yard fields by “Dome Day”. Meanwhile, GO TIGERS!

Tiger Patpaw

October 15th, 2013
6:36 pm

STC,

I’ve worked only on the “Private” side outside 6A, I’m buying your assessment. Subject to stand by.

Hi, I'm from wrightsville!

October 15th, 2013
7:23 pm

I read the ajc, i dont usually post but i had to after this article…

STC, I disagree with you dropping joco out of the top 5… If they’re winning they should still be up there… Stanford was still number 5 until 0:00 hit the clock in Salt Lake City… Same with uga… If they keep on winning, no need to drop them… I know on paper it looks like Eci is a better team, but we don’t put 70 points on the wheelers and Montgomery’s of the world… Coach norton and the Trojans have CLASS!!

Swamp lizard, your expertise on joco irks me… You must be from between wrightsville and lincolnton to trash joco and Lincoln so much… You must go to joco’s practices… I personally invite you to twin city on oct 25… If we lose to Eci, you can talk all the crap you want… If we do beat them, which is possible because you play the game on the field, not on the AJC/gavsv, you need to apologize to everyone in Johnson county…

Go Trojans!!! Prove the doubters wrong!!!

S. Thomas Coleman

October 15th, 2013
8:18 pm

Swamp:

Remember, region champs take precedent in the power rankings, and we still have four more games to go — some teams have three. Things will continue to settle out.

My beef with Maxwell is that past records are factored in, which makes no sense to me. Why would you factor in teams/players that basically no longer exist. Keyonte Green, Isaac Rochelle and DJ Curl are at Purdue, Notre Dame and Charleston Southern. Montravious Adams is at Auburn. Brendan Douglass is at UGA. Rashard Fant is at Indiana. Why should their performance from a year ago factor into what going is currently on at ELCA, Dooly County, Aquinas and OLM. Makes no sense.

STC

S. Thomas Coleman

October 15th, 2013
8:20 pm

Tiger Patpaw:

I think, eventually, the power rankings, which I do not like, prove to be a better system than Maxwell. Good luck to the Tigers the rest of the way!

STC

S. Thomas Coleman

October 15th, 2013
8:32 pm

Wrightsville:

Don’t take offense. I love what Coach Norton is doing over there at JoCo, and love his no-frills, no-nonsense philosophy. It serves those young men well on Friday night, but will help them even more in life after football. I think until teams settle things on the field, you have to look at who they’ve played/beaten. JoCo’s opponents haven’t fared too well, but I still think they are a team to be reckoned with once the public school tournament starts. Walker Field will be a tough place for any team to come in and get a win, and I think the Trojans will earn themselves at least two home games in the playoffs.

And Coach Kearson is a class guy who runs a tough, class program in Twin City. I disagree with your characterization of them.

Swamp will have to speak for himself … and something tells me he will in 3 … 2 … 1 …

STC

bucket

October 15th, 2013
8:53 pm

I am not a big fan of the power rankings either, but I like the Maxwell rankings even less and for the same reason as STC outlined. For my money the power rankings are the best alternative until something better comes along. As far as Swamp’s concerns, I will be surprised if ELCA doesn’t rise to the top of the rankings if they win out, but then again they were the 2 seed last year and we all know how that worked out. Everyone wants as high as seed as possible to ensure more home games, but as long as you secure the 1 or 2 seed, then you are guaranteed home field until the dome anyway. Prince caught a break last year and got to play Athens Academy in the semis and that was practically a home game considering the close proximity of the schools.

rusty

October 15th, 2013
9:43 pm

FYI..Prince Avenue Christian is listed at No. 8 and No. 14 on the private school rankings.

TCDAWG25

October 15th, 2013
9:57 pm

@Wrightsville I’m from Twin City and what numbers have ECI put up against JOCO in the past 3 Years. Maybe JOCO is in the same boat as Wheeler, Treutlen, Montgomery, and we put up over 40 on Savannah Christian and beat them by twenty something.

JSP

October 15th, 2013
9:58 pm

The whole system is just hilarious to me. ELCA could very well finish 3rd or 4th in the Power Rankings. This means that a team that finished 15th or 16th has ultimately lucked out and has a better chance of advancing compared to a team that finished 14th or 13th.

Happened last year when Pisgah fell to Darlington in the Region crossover. The prior week, Pisgah was 15th. After the loss, they only fell to 16th because Whitefield and CH lost. FYI, Whitefield had the same record as Pisgah, finished higher in the Region, and won the head to head meeting (coming from a Pisgah fan). OLM who was on the outside, snuck in at 15th, but because Athens Academy was 1st and ELCA was 2nd, Pisgah lucked out. Even though they lost, it was a much closer game. If they had played ELCA, it would have been a blood bath. Ultimately, it was actually better for them to lose in the Region Crossover.

TCDAWG25

October 15th, 2013
10:06 pm

@Wrightsville ECI is averaging 52 points since 2011 against JOCO.

Single A Fan

October 15th, 2013
10:35 pm

I like it this way:
ELCA
Aquinas
Landmark Christian
Darlington

This is the most accurate. In a few weeks the story will be told. 5A is clearly the front runner. Neither ELCA or Landmark will face Darlington or Aquinas in the regular season but they will face each other in the post season. I still believe one of those two 5A teams will still be standing Dec 14.

Sam Roney

October 15th, 2013
11:52 pm

Aquinas just defeated Lincoln County 42-14 on Lincoln’ County’s field in front of a packed house. The
Aquinas folks filled up the visitor’s side. This wasn’t just a beating, it was a massacre of a previously
pretty good Lincoln team. Aquinas’ Reuben Garnet got 298 yards rushing, and about 50 more on pass
catches, while also playing in the defensive secondary most of the game. You Atlanta area folks will
learn something this year at playoff time, when your Mt. Parans, ELCA’s, etc. meet Reuben Garnet.

JSP

October 16th, 2013
12:36 am

Sam, however good Garnet may be; ELCA has gone up against talent that is just as good. For example, Rashad Fant and Jeremiah Kirkland. Not saying Reuben is a great RB, but I’d be careful what you wish for. ELCA are men among boys.

Korefa

October 16th, 2013
4:11 am

JOCO vs. ECI will be a good one. I will withhold a prediction.

Hope to be there.

Swamp Lizard

October 16th, 2013
7:20 am

@ Wrightsville ….. I have no ill will towards Lincoln Co or Johnson Co, I really don’t. I know how proud those two programs are. I admire the tradition those programs have. The issue I had with Lincoln Co was being ranked when I thought they weren’t a Top 10 team ….. they were ranked on “NAME” alone. Same issue with Johnson Co at #5 in the Top 10 ….. the combined win / loss total of JoCo’s 6-0 record is 7-27. As I mentioned, the win over Sav Christian isn’t impressve now. I just don’t think JoCo is a Top 10 team, I know that might rub you the wrong way, but that’s just my opinion. I think ECI is a very good team …. a Top 5 team ….. & I think they will beat JoCo by 20+. I have NO ties to the Public schools, my ties are on the Private side, but I do follow all of Class A very close. I will make you this promise, I will be right here to eat all the crow you and all Johnson Co fans will give me after the ECI game. Again, I have no ill will towards your team and really wish y’all the best thoughout the playoffs.

Swamp Lizard

October 16th, 2013
7:29 am

@ Sam Roney …… congrats on that big win last week !! I wouldn’t be calling out the ELCA’s, George Walton’s & Landmarks just yet ….. but I do think Aquinas is the solid #2 team in the state right now ( Class A ). Oh Yea ….. I kind of called that game last week didn’t I?

Swamp Lizard

October 16th, 2013
8:27 am

@ STC ….the Maxwell Ratings ….. I agree with you on that statement ( past teams, players ) ….. but I “think” the FINAL rankings are what you did this past season ( only this season ) ….. & past seasons are NOT factored in. I could be totally wrong on that and I have looked to try and find that answer ( no luck so far ) …… could you please verify that?

Swamp Lizard

October 16th, 2013
8:30 am

@ Single A Fan …… I wouldn’t be shocked if Our Lady of Mercy gives Darlington a fit ( Nov 1st ) !! ……. heard it here first.

S. Thomas Coleman

October 16th, 2013
10:15 am

Swamp:

Here is the verbiage on how Maxwell determines point spreads: “The Maxwell computer ratings take into account historical scores, weighing the more recent seasons the most heavily.”

I believe “history” is taken into account, at least slightly, for the rankings as well. History does make a difference in terms of teams knowing how to win and how to close out games. That’s a fact. However, when ranking a team one should look at how that team performs, not the teams before it. That’s my major beef with Maxwell. The point system isn’t perfect by any stretch. We’ll see how things settle. I have a hard time believing that any point configuration used will not show ELCA as the No. 1 seed at the end of the regular season.

STC

Hi, I'm from wrightsville!

October 16th, 2013
10:52 am

Thanks for the replies….
We are all entitled to our own opinion, which is why America is great…

Stc, I wasn’t calling Eci classless, it just appears that way when teams like that constantly run the score up on lesser opponents… I say get to the running clock and put b team in, however not all coaches (both winning and losing coaches) agree to that… But as a fan, those games are a lot less stressful! Watching our sav chr on the Internet made me almost throw my laptop at the wall!!!

Tc dawg and swamp, I hope my opinions are right, you hope your opinions are right… But them young boys play the game, not opinions of a bunch of men that lost their eligibility years ago!!! May the best team win!!!

TCDAWG25

October 16th, 2013
11:59 am

@Wrightsville The reason ECI plays some starters late into the game, is because we have lost 5 players who started or played a lot to ACL injuries. Another starter quit the team and two other starters were kicked off the team. It’s been hard getting the inexperienced players the reps they need to be successful. But the dawgs are back after a rough start so everyone look out.

highschool

October 16th, 2013
12:43 pm

I got pace upsetting landmark 14-10 i think they have one of the best defenses in the state even though they start 9 sophmores and freshmen

suburb

October 16th, 2013
12:46 pm

I agree with you on the defense but i think Pace doesn’t ever play a full game so it’ll be close.

Class A Idiot

October 16th, 2013
3:42 pm

I am pretty sure PACE kicks Landmark all over the field. They are vastly superior.

Joco 88

October 16th, 2013
4:51 pm

Prediction on the johnson county & truetlen county game on friday night?

Swamp Lizard

October 16th, 2013
5:15 pm

Pace over Landmark ?… great “D”? … vastly superior? ….. NOPE!

At Last

October 16th, 2013
5:25 pm

Does anyone believe that OLM has a chance on Friday? This game is very important for their program. They need to believe that they can compete. I hope ELCA does not take them for granted. They really have nothing to lose because they only get better. ELCA has a way of showing other programs where they are. Standard bearers. Good luck OLM! Fight!!

Swamp Lizard

October 16th, 2013
6:29 pm

@ At Last …. Yes, they have a chance for sure. I can assure you that Coach Gess & ELCA think a lot of OLM. They know that OLM is the best team in the state with a 2-4 record. No matter the outcome for OLM this Friday night, they can’t lose focus and get down “if” they don’t come away with a win. I’ve seen OLM and they are just as “tough” as Landmark … and that’s a compliment to OLM. This is a team that should be 5-1 or at worse 4-2.

Go Bears

October 16th, 2013
7:38 pm

Nobody quit on Holy Innocents’

GAHSFBFAN24

October 16th, 2013
8:16 pm

I do not see Pace beating Landmark. Landmark plays too disciplined and Pace at times plays out of control on both sides of the ball. Pace allowed several long plays when I saw them play against FPD. I think Landmark wins 35-14. Turnovers and special teams will decide the game.

Swamp Lizard

October 17th, 2013
6:12 am

@ STC …… this is a reply I got back from Todd Holcomb when I asked if past seasons are factored in when the last rankings come out for the Maxwell Ratings. Maybe we’ll get more information from him and Loren. I also asked them to pass on any information to you.

Todd Holcomb

October 16th, 2013
7:05 pm
Good question. Hopefully Loren will chime in, as he knows his ratings better than I do. …

But yes, the current ratings do consider past seasons. But those considerations expire at the end of the regular season, and they already are much less meaningful than they were in the first few weeks.

I definitely think that the Maxwell Ratings are more sophisticated than the GHSA’s simple point system, especially when it comes to strength of schedule.

Single A Refs Are Horrible Horrible Horrible

October 17th, 2013
8:38 am

The GHSA should encourage good Single A completion by eliminating any benefit derived by playing teams that are in a higher classification. This will make teams think twice about scheduling teams that will beat them only to get 1 or 2 bonus points. I think GHSA made the correct decision to reduce classification bonus points to 1 for a win and .5 for a loss for each level of higher classification do your opponent. Just take it one step further next year. I believe all schedules in Single A will be determined in Jan for 2014. Perfect time to remove this incentive for next year. This won’t keep rivals from playing each other but will improve Single A football competition.

As for non pr rankings during the season, who cares. This isn’t like the BCS. Completely meaningless and have zero impact on post season play.

Single A Refs Are Horrible Horrible Horrible

October 17th, 2013
8:41 am

LCS is playing on borrowed time. I predict Pace, HI and ELCA will beat them. If I am wrong then I will be the first to congratulate them on a perfect season.

Single A Refs Are Horrible Horrible Horrible

October 17th, 2013
8:48 am

Sorry for auto spell check errors. Meant to say Single A competition in addition to a few other errors. Hopefully, comments were understood.

Swamp Lizard

October 17th, 2013
9:51 am

@ Single A Refs …. I can possibly see Landmark losing one of those games, but what Landmark IS, is what every football team wants to be ….. they are “tough”, “physical”, they seem to will themselves to victory in the 4th qtr, they “believe” they will win. They are not a big team, not a fast football team, but they do know “how” to win.

LanFan

October 17th, 2013
10:15 am

For OLM I believe they can but, I don’t know that they do. They have the things we don’t have and eventually I expect to be our downfall. They have size, numbers and some speed. Since I don’t think ELCA will over look us I send all those hopes to OLM. Good luck Friday.

For the others I have no trash talk to give you. On paper and in your beliefs you should probably beat us bad. All I can say is let the boys strap it on and lets see.

Should be fun.

Cat Man

October 17th, 2013
10:56 am

ELCA is clearly the superior team against OLM Friday. But, like someone said earlier, they are getting better by the week. They are only 6 plays or so from being 5-1 instead of 2-4. Coach Earwood and staff have done a great job getting ready for the big games. Also, they can still make the playoffs even if ELCA beats them. I’ve seen both of their wins and they are a very well coached team with discipline and talent. I think they’ll give ELCA all they want just like they did with Landmark. Should be a fun one to watch.

old dawg

October 17th, 2013
11:18 am

I was at the Johnson Co. vs. Jenkins Co. game this year at Paulson. Norton kept all of his starters in on both defense and offense midway thru the 4th quarter. And Johnson Co. was winning 40 to 0. So watch that statement about Norton having class.

S. Thomas Coleman

October 17th, 2013
11:31 am

Go Bears:

Thanks for the update. A Holy Innocents player emailed me and told gave me the real story. I’ve taken down my previous post asking the question. Good luck to the Bears the rest of the way!

STC

Class A Idiot

October 17th, 2013
12:41 pm

You folks talking about OLM are crazy. ELCA is going to drop 40 to 50 on them. That is just the way it is in Class A right now. You folks have way to much respect for OLM, probably because it is STC’s son’s team. The fact of the matter is they have gifted players, but they are undisciplined and deserve their 2 and 4 start.

LanFan

October 17th, 2013
1:18 pm

The idea that ELCA is going to beat everyone by 40 or 50 is old news. I think even Swamp is tired of talking about that.

The OLM thing for me has nothing to do with STC. It has to do with seeing the parts of something and you can tell it is just not there but the parts are there. I would like to hate on them because there has been a rivalry going on for several years and they haven’t been nice about their losing.

We see teams that don’t have it and even if they play hard still will not have it and you feel for them. You see someone has it but can’t figure it out and except for one or two weeks out of the year I will hope they find it.

And for ELCA they will be something to talk about when they lose a couple of times to A schools.

Innocent Bystander

October 17th, 2013
5:55 pm

@ class A idiot…. You sir, are correct. It will be a huge surprise if ELCA doesn’t hang 40 or 50 on OLM. That IS the way it is. @ lanfan…….. It’s not just an idea when they do it every week. It appears you post with your heart more than your head sometimes. You can say it won’t happen every week, but that doesn’t help on Friday nights. ELCA is the sharp end of the stick, and everybody knows it ! Who are the class A teams that are going to beat them ???

LanFan

October 17th, 2013
10:42 pm

Innocent Bystander.
That was my point. I give them their due. That is why it is old news. I don’t think there is a A school that can beet them and have been on record for a long time now with that. But we play the games anyway for the times when something else happens. If that is too much with my heart then well so be it. I don’t think any of it would be fun anymore if we all just expect everyone to go out and get killed. If we all used our heads we probably wouldn’t spend very much time thinking about what people say on boards like this.

I stand my my idea that ELCA beating everyone by 40 or 50 points will not be much of a story until there are A teams that can beat them.

Good luck to all of you.

Class A Idiot

October 18th, 2013
8:42 am

My argument here was simply to say that the posters suggesting OLM is going to make something happen against ELCA are out of their mind. OLM is not as good as many people on here hope / think they are and even if they were, they would still lose by a monster margin, only now it will be worse. This game is not worth discussing because if will be over by the second quarter.

I propose a separate tournament to play for second place as that would actually be interesting for the rest of Class A as there are 8-10 teams that might be able to win it. Class A is of limited fun right now in terms of the postseason because things are so lopsided. One could argue AAA has a similar problem. My son’s team is fighting for a spot in the playoffs, but I would strongly PREFER NOT to make it, if our first round were to be played against ELCA. Any other team in Class A would be fine. I would hate for the seniors to end their football careers with a 50 plus point loss against so much division 1 talent. We have but one player on our team who will potentially play some D3 level football, that is it. I know people on here will kill me for that comment, but I believe there are more folks out there with similar thinking than one might think.

OK, let the attack comments begin,

LanFan

October 18th, 2013
11:43 am

Understand. And I agree except I am want may chance at the helm if the ship is going down. Just in case. But that will get you shot also.

Hang in there.