Semifinal blowouts: Where is the parity in Georgia high school basketball?
State records fell during the last weekend’s semifinals of the state basketball tournament. They’re nothing to brag about, though.
The average margin of victory of the girls games was 21.1 points, making them the most lopsided girls semifinals in state tournament history. The record had been 19.4 in 2011.
The boys semifinals last week were more competitive, with an average margin of 11.9 points, but still on the rise from 11.0 in 2012 and 9.9 in 2011. Miller Grove won 72-38 in Class AAAAA. Eagle’s Landing won by 26, Columbia by 27. Johnson of Savannah won by 22.
The lack of parity in semifinals has risen since the 1970s, when the average margin of victory was 9.7 points. Thanks to the Georgia Basketball Project for providing the scores that allowed for that calculation.
Is it the trend of transfers and the evolution of super teams? Is it the move to six classifications? Is it the way that the GHSA sets up the bracket? Or was last weekend a fluke?
Consider the shock and awe witnessed in these five girls games:
- Wesleyan’s 83-34 victory and 49-point margin over Thomasville was the most lopsided girls semifinal in state tournament history. The previous record had been 48 points when Hart County beat Rockdale County 90-42 in 1982.
- Norcross beat Langston Hughes 62-16. The 16 points are the fewest in a girls semifinal since 1960, when the girls played six on six.
- St. Francis led Calvary 50-14 entering the fourth quarter. The final was 50-27 after St. Francis was outscored 13-0 in the final period while playing its reserves.
- Southwest Atlanta Christian was up 18-2 in the first quarter on Holy Innocents’ and won 78-43.
- Miller Grove didn’t allow a field goal until 59 seconds left in the first half in a 49-23 victory over Effingham County. Effingham made only made five field goals in the game.
Why aso many blowouts?
Here are three theories:
1. The competition is diluted by the move to six classifications. From 1973 through 2000, there were only four boys and four girls state champions. Now there are seven and seven.
2. The format of the basketball bracket allows some quarters of the draw to be much weaker than the others. In football, every region has one team in each eight-team quarter of the draw. That means that stronger regions have a better chance of getting their teams to the semis. In basketball, if regions 1-4 are much weaker than 5-8, or vice-versa, some of the best teams will be eliminated before the semifinals.
3. Transfers. Today’s top players want to play on the top teams and find a way to do it. ‘’There’s no parity in high school sports anymore,’’ one semifinal coach said. “Your bigger [better] players are going to these same schools year in, year out. In 10 years, it’s going to be a disaster.’’
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100 comments Add your comment
Max Sizemore
March 5th, 2013
11:16 am
Mostly, it’s No. 2 because North Georgia (i.e., the greater Atlanta area) has become dominant. The north Georgia semifinalists are usually much better, and the way to avoid that is, as you mentioned, going to a football-style bracket. But that would increase travel miles for many teams.
Facts
March 5th, 2013
11:24 am
#3 Is the answer. It was a shock to everyone that Hillgrove beat Wheeler. Look at the previous schools for Wheeler, Norcross (girls and boys), Buford., Miller Grove This is the age of super teams. Neighorhood teams have gone the way of the dinosaur and unfortunately it is difficult for them to compete against teams that “recruit” or attract those AAU teams. If you don’t have an apartment complex in your district that the players and families can “move” to or an administration that turns a blind eye then you are out of luck.
SWD Panther Paw
March 5th, 2013
11:28 am
I believe it’s theory #2. If the bracket’s are set-up like football the best teams would make it to the final four. Case in point Region 6-AAAAAA would have had all four teams(SWD, Tucker, Stephenson and Miller Grove) in the final four without a doubt. I believe the GHSA tries to rig the brackets so the South Georgia teams have a chance to make it to the finals at least in the top three classes(6A,5A,4A).
wolfbait67
March 5th, 2013
11:37 am
SWD P P:Do not forget AAA, Travelling to Savannah and playing on their second home court when they play each other, did not seem right, but the GHSA gura Ralphie must got a chunk for letting that happen……shame on you Ralphie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keno
March 5th, 2013
11:41 am
I say #2 and #3. First the GHSA need to adopt a power rankings. #1 Norcross and #2 Parkview girls met in the second round. Give me a break! That should have been a semi-final or final’s matchup. For some reason GHSA like to pair region against region in the opening round. That makes absolutely no sence. I’d also like to see the region tourney’s go away.
Lastly, the recruiting in this state is out of control!
Dwayne
March 5th, 2013
11:44 am
@SWD….without a doubt?? you got the lottery numbers for Wednesday night?
DeweyCheatem
March 5th, 2013
12:01 pm
Keno, I don’t disagree with you about eliminating the region tournament. Let the regular season determine regions champs. In regards to recruiting. It is almost to the point where GHSA should just stop acting as if there are rules and let everyone go wherever they wish. Right now, schools that abide by the rules really don’t stand a chance vs the Usual Suspects. The days of kids growing up together and winning a state championship is almost extinct. That is why Mceachern girls run last year was awesome. Homegrown talent went undefeated. I don’t think that will happen much more.
Hubert Green
March 5th, 2013
12:37 pm
Wait a minute; I thought Milton was the only team to have “undue influence” on players wanting to come. The irony is that each player who did transfer actually made a bonafide move. One possible solution in basketball only is to have a “super power” league in which if you have a certain amount of transfers, you must compete for the state championship in that division no matter how big or small your school is. It would be flexible and based on the numbers kept at GHSA from the Spring. In New Jersey, St Anothy, St Patrick do not compete against public schools for state titles until the all classification tournament. You also have schools throughout the country that do not compete for a state title. That would be fine with me in Georgia if that’s what your school decides to do.
Rossi
March 5th, 2013
12:41 pm
I wish you people would pay closer attention to the brackets. Effingham County did not play Miller Grove. Effingham lost by one point to Gainesville in arguably the best semi-final game played last weekend. The winning basket was scored with 2.3 seconds to play.
BcS2010
March 5th, 2013
12:49 pm
It’s reason 2!!! This is how it’s always been and its not fair!! This year in girls basketball the best 4 teams were Tucker,SWD,Miller Grove,and Stephenson hands down but they played each other in the elite 8 which made the final 4 less exiting. In the boys setting Miller grove played the championship already playing Tucker in the elite 8.. This is how it’s been for years the elite 8 games are really the final 4 games.. This needs to be changed ASAP!!
north ga granny
March 5th, 2013
12:57 pm
Make private schools and public schools that recruit play up at least two classes.
Johnny Too Good
March 5th, 2013
1:00 pm
I’m not sure what the reason is behind the lack of parity this year, however,
Johnson-Savannah, who blew out North Hall in the final four is not a “super team” full of transfers. Neither is Savannah High, who faced Milton’s all star team in the AAAAA finals last year, and most recently knocked off Buford.
Those kids actually live in the neighborhoods.
jimmy
March 5th, 2013
1:06 pm
Recruiting is getting out of hand in the state of Georgia, we had one school Augusta to recruit a complete Middle school team for their AP program. The test results where out last week, only 3 students out of 35 pass the AP test as of today. Now tell me how you can stay in a program and not be sent by to the school that you a zone for. You can report this to the county AD, but he isn’t worth a dang!! what a joke!!!
Question
March 5th, 2013
1:19 pm
Who did Miller Grove recruit this year?? They have a new starting five from last year and are still in the championship? I just dont see them as a super team this year? Can anyone answer that, they look like they have a bunch of role guys?
SWD Panther Paw
March 5th, 2013
1:30 pm
Dwayne – did you follow the bracket this year and the last seven years for class 4A now 5A??????? I don’t think you have. Yes! without a doubt.
Region 6 AAAAA
March 5th, 2013
1:30 pm
@Rossi – Effingham Girls played Miller Grove Girls and the results were not good. GHSA has to go to the football brackets for basketball, because all 4 Girls teams could have possibly made it to the Final Four or Finals. My bad they do have 2 teams in the Finals, and guess what they have played 2 times in regular season, once for Region Championship, and now they play for the State Championship.
Casey
March 5th, 2013
1:43 pm
Who did Miller Grove recruit this year? Referees…watch the videos of the games online….they didn’t blow anyone out until the finals…the Refs have bailed them out all season…barely, winning games with a 5 – 10 point margin..
Hubert Green
March 5th, 2013
1:52 pm
Miller Grove has had a remarkable year. The outstanding point guard moved from South Carolina; Pinckney this year. Moreso than just basketball some schools benefit tremendously with their academic programs. And programs that emphasize academics and you can tell that by looking at the colleges their players enter benefit tremendously: private schools, charter; some city; IB programs and top rated public schools.
MGHSFAN
March 5th, 2013
1:54 pm
Casey it is clear that you have not followed Miller Grove this year, Date Day Time Opponent Location/Score
Nov 14 Wed 7:00 PM Milton (5-AAAAAA) Home-Scrimmage
Nov 17 Sat 8:30 PM McEachern (4-AAAAAA) Lost 62-63
Nov 19 Mon 7:30 PM Fayette County (5-AAAA) Won 67-26
Nov 20 Tue 7:30 PM Lassiter (5-AAAAAA) Won 62-45
Nov 27 Tue 7:00 PM Stephenson (6A-AAAAA)* Won 64-42
Dec 01 Sat 4:00 PM Archer (8-AAAAAA) Won 72-70
Dec 04 Tue 7:00 PM M.L. King (6B-AAAAA)* Won 77-70
Dec 07 Fri 7:00 PM Southwest DeKalb (6B-AAAAA)* Won 72-42
Dec 11 Tue 7:00 PM Mays (6B-AAAAA)* Won 68-58
Dec 14 Fri 7:00 PM Arabia Mountain (6B-AAAAA)* Won 66-55
Dec 15 Sat 4:00 PM Norcross (7-AAAAAA) Won 64-62
Dec 18 Tue 7:00 PM North Atlanta (6A-AAAAA)* Won 69-60
Dec 21 Fri 7:30 PM Columbia (6A-AAAA) Lost 58-69
Dec 26 Wed Leuzinger Won 50-43
Dec 27 Thu Westchester Lost 50-52
Dec 28 Fri Rainier Beach, WA Won 65-63
Dec 29 Sat De La Salle, IL Won 61-51
Jan 08 Tue 7:00 PM Clarkston (6A-AAAAA)* Won 73-21
Jan 11 Fri 5:30 PM Lakeside, DeKalb (6A-AAAAA)* Won 89-27
Jan 15 Tue 7:00 PM Dunwoody (6A-AAAAA)* Won 71-36
Jan 18 Fri 7:00 PM Tucker (6A-AAAAA)* Won 80-69
Jan 25 Fri 7:00 PM M.L. King (6B-AAAAA)* Won 67-59
Jan 26 Sat Memphis East Won 104-56
Jan 29 Tue 7:00 PM Southwest DeKalb (6B-AAAAA)* Won 66-55
Feb 01 Fri 7:00 PM Mays (6B-AAAAA)* Won 64-49
Feb 05 Tue 7:00 PM Arabia Mountain (6B-AAAAA)* Won 77-61
Feb 13 Wed 5:30 PM Southwest DeKalb (6B-AAAAA)* Won 55-44
Feb 15 Fri 5:30 PM Tucker (6A-AAAAA)* Won 72-53
Feb 16 Sat 8:30 PM Stephenson (6A-AAAAA)* Won 55-51
Feb 19 Tue 7:00 PM Sequoyah (7A-AAAAA) Won 79-57
Feb 23 Sat 6:30 PM Villa Rica (5B-AAAAA) Won 74-53
Feb 26 Tue 7:00 PM Tucker (6A-AAAAA) Won 60-55
Mar 02 Sat 8:30 PM Northside, Columbus (1A-AAAAA) Won 72-38
@Hubert Green
March 5th, 2013
1:56 pm
Your are right that kid did come from South Carolina, just looked it up. But he is a DeKalb County kid. I remember watching him play in the Middle school championship a few years ago, i think with chapel hill. Not sure how he got to South Carolina, but I know MGHS is glad he is back.
Question
March 5th, 2013
2:04 pm
@Casey so what you are saying by looking at your theory is that Miller Grove plays in the toughest region because all of their tough games came against region teams, and the loss to a Mcheachern team on a last second shot, a win at archer on a last second shot, and then got the beat down from COLUMBIA, and a loss on the road in a National Tournament. I think it is insulting to say that they have won because of referee help
Dekalb Co Guy
March 5th, 2013
2:10 pm
I think its a combination of #2 and #3, 5A is the biggest example of example #2 because I agree, there would have been 3 if not all 4 teams from 5A region 6 in the semifinals.
But we cant fool ourselves and not say that a lot of the blowouts dont come from “super” teams. Do teams “recruit”, maybe slightly, but a lot of times, kids just want to go to the school with the notoriety. You want to play and be associated with winner. So I wont get into whether Miller Grove recruits or not, but I work with a guy and he says its always a kid from his neighborhood that plays for Miller Grove, yet he is in McNair area. I do believe kids and parents in some cases seek out a chance to play for the elite teams. The impacts of transfers are even greater in basketball than say football.
At my daughters school,a couple of years ago, they had an elite female basketball player commited to a Top 10 college program. She transferred prior to her senior year, to play for a better team. the team she left, won 1 game the whole year…and the school she transferred to was already a playoff caliber team so they cruised to a state championship that year winning most games by 40+ points. So yeah transfers do play a big part in it.
Greg Mack
March 5th, 2013
2:19 pm
The brackets for basketball needs to be done differently. It travel is an issue, take that into consideration, but put together a better system so that the final game is truly the championship game. Perhaps a system like it use to be when there was the NCAA tournament and then those not selected went to the NIT – have a GA-64 which would consist of the top 64 in all of GA and then everyone else would play in the GA-128.
@Dekalb Co Guy
March 5th, 2013
2:20 pm
A guy i go to church with says there is always a kid that plays for MillerGrove that lives in his neighborhood, and he lives in Savannah. LMFAO
Casey
March 5th, 2013
2:20 pm
@MGHSFAN…. I stand corrected .. I’d love to follow them in college though…where have their seniors signed or received offers?
Todd Holcomb
March 5th, 2013
2:28 pm
I’m reworking this story for the AJC print edition for Wednesday. In it, former Columbia coach Phil McCrary (now DeKalb athletics coordinator) suggests using the football style bracket, with one team from each region in each quarter, but then have those teams seeded 1-8 using the MaxPreps computer rankings.
MGHSFAN
March 5th, 2013
2:42 pm
@Casey Georgia Tech, UGA, UCLA, University of PENN, Alabama A&M, Southern, FortValley, Morehouse, and a host of other Jr Colleges.
Dekalb Co Guy
March 5th, 2013
2:50 pm
@ my namesake,
I wasnt throwing stones at Miller Grove, just stating what someone told me. I am sure there are all types of stories like that which exist. Transfers do play a big part in a lot of the super teams. as someone has stated, Miller Grove pg came from SCarolina.
We all know which teams were being implied when the story was published.
Norcross, Miller Grove, Milton, Tift Co. Eagles Landing, Columbia, Wesleyan, SACA, Wheeler. Those are just some of the “super teams” that existed this year.
Region5Guru
March 5th, 2013
2:53 pm
@Todd – There isn’t much parity at all in girls basketball at any level. Just look at the NCAA Division 1 teams. The teams at the very top of the polls can usually blowout the teams on the bottom half of the top 25 poll. Look at Baylor’s scores vs. top 25 teams this year:
Win over #6 Kentucky 85-51
Loss to #4 Stanford 71-69
Win over #9 Notre Dame 73-61
Win over #10 Tennessee 76-53
Win over # 13 Oklahoma State 83-49
Win over #25 Iowa State 67-39
Win over #17 Kansas 82-60
Win over #24 Iowa State 66-51
Win over #19 Oklahoma State 81-62
Win over #3 UCONN 75-70
7 out of 10 of their games vs. Top 25 opponents ended up in games decided by 15 points or more. You could look at most of the other top 10 teams and see more of the same. There is even less parity in high school girls hoops.
There is also a disparity between North and South.
Since 2001, 49 out of the last 60 girls state champions have come from the North/Metro Atlanta area. In Georgia’s largest classification, there has only been one girls state champion from the South in the last 20+ years (Beach in 2000)
Since 2001, 44 of the last 60 boys state champions have come from the North/Metro Atlanta area. Since the year 2000, Griffin is the only non-metro school to win a state championship in the Georgia’s largest TWO classifications (Griffin 2003)…And I would hesitate to call Griffin a “South Georgia” school. Back with Coach Ferris Qualls, the Griffin Bears would be a staple at Atlanta summer camps and tournaments.
If the GHSA would reseed the state tournament field, we would have a DYNAMITE state tournament with Georgia’s best teams playing each other in the Elite 8, Final 4 etc.
Credit the Georgia High School Basketball Project at http://www.ghsbp.com
Who cares
March 5th, 2013
2:54 pm
Girls basketball who cares?
VChandler
March 5th, 2013
2:56 pm
Is there a way we could get Hubert Green to take over GHSA? Seriously, this guy has great ideas and insight that would help. The idea of a Super Power league is brilliant. Either that or just open the flood gates and allow anyone to go anywhere and end the facade of “bonafied” moves.
Augustabred
March 5th, 2013
3:00 pm
A whole midle school team huh Jimmy…,.just like GAC was gonna beat u know who by 25 or more!!! Next 2 years will be back to back state champs!!!! By the way, kids will go to whatever school is hot at that time period! Why should a school like Wesleyan even compete in public school sports. But that same u know who school is going to shock them as well!!!!!!!
Casey
March 5th, 2013
3:00 pm
@MGHSFAN That’s good to know …it would be great if more 2013 Dekalb County graduates have the opportunity to play post high school.
Benjamin E. Mays Raider for Life.
March 5th, 2013
3:01 pm
It’s called Capitalism. The high schools are now practicing whats been going on in college since 1970. Georgia needs to follow the rest of the USA.
Manny fresh
March 5th, 2013
3:01 pm
Miller grove still good this year but I felt like AAAAA was a Lil weaker this year the teams they called strong in they religion teams like Stephenson, tucker, mays, sw dekalb wouldn’t even be a factor to teams like Columbia Marist south atlanta eagle landing. Or teams in AAAAAA like wheeler tift norcross Shiloh north cobb, all I’m saying is AAAAA was kind of weak this year if miller grove played teams like that in the state I don’t think they would have won so easily. But they don’t make the schelue and they can’t help what region they in. So shouts out to miller grove on they 5 championships.
South Fulton Advocate
March 5th, 2013
3:04 pm
I DO Know for Langston Hughes… They had 5 freshmen and two sophomores that led their team. They were definitely star struck and blinded by the lights. They played hard all year and was just happy to have made it that far, so they had no more fight left. Look for them to return with a vengence no matter the format.
E
March 5th, 2013
3:07 pm
to wolfbait67…savannah and johnson never play games at armstrong atlantic…so give me a break with the 2nd home court bs….also, neva been a problem for the metro teams to play games at gwinnette arena,kennesaw or ga tech for playoff games…people will always support recruiting cause it benefits their school and vice versa… btw..i’m from savannah does wesleyan recruit or is it a private school…just wondering how they keep winning state championships
Manny fresh
March 5th, 2013
3:13 pm
That is crazy I have to say #2 because we won our region championship but it still made us #2 in the bracket overall Columbia loses to us but still we get the #1 team overall in the final 4 how is that even possible that the number 1 and 2 team play in the final 4. And Columbia play statesboro in the final 4 that’s crazy we shoulda just lost the region championship game got on the other side of the bracket knowing we had a easy roll to the finals basically what Columbia just did.
John Wooden
March 5th, 2013
3:15 pm
Look up Oldsmar Christian in Oldsmar FL, right outside Tampa. They do not play a FL schedule. The coach admits that he is there to get scholarships, not trophies. I think Milton (under Boyd), Wheeler, GAC, Norcross, Wesleyan girls, and others would be better suited playing each other for championships and let the neighborhood schools play for their state championships based on enrollments.
Coach Who Knows
March 5th, 2013
3:31 pm
Question——-Miller Grove does recruit!!!! If you look at their top 8 players only 3 came from their feeder school. 3 of the starters were zoned for other high schools………. Out of the other 5…………. 2 from Lithonia(#3 pg is a freshman), 1 from Redan…..1 from stn mtn……… And Pinckney came back from SC but went to stephenson. However it does look like recuiting b/c he get as Freshmen not after another coach develops them!!!
the truth
March 5th, 2013
3:36 pm
I don’t think recruiting is going on as much as parents are transferring their kids to schools with strong coaches that get players recruited. If I had a son with very good basketball skills I would not hesitate to get him in a school like Norcross. College is expensive and any help I can get is good. Add to that if he is good enough to get into one of the better basketball schools it gives him a better chance to play in a pro league here or in Europe.
Many schools play in national tournaments during the Christmas break to get players exposure. Prior to the playoffs Norcross hosted a day of basketball games between local area teams and teams from out of state. It was entertaining but more importantly it exposed many players to college coaches for recruiting. This is the type of environment I would want my son in. Do not blame the parents for transferring kids into these schools, blame your coach and school for not doing the same thing.
Thanks
March 5th, 2013
3:42 pm
@ Manny, maybe Columbia knew something you guys didn’t when they blew that 17point lead after halftime.
@Coach Who Knows
March 5th, 2013
4:05 pm
So what you are saying is that all of Miller Grove kids are DeKalb County products? Why do they not choose to go to Lithonia or other schools.
Casey
March 5th, 2013
4:20 pm
@ the truth…Don’t fool yourself…no matter how notorious the program/coach, college coaches are looking for TALENT! One of the most highly recruited seniors in GA (Currently 10 D-1 offers) goes to a Dekalb County public high school no one over heard of. Some parents are more concerned about their child’s education and his ability to qualify academically to play at the collegiate level. Don’t bother tansferring your son….college coaches know how to find talent…
BullDawg Rick
March 5th, 2013
4:21 pm
@ the Truth –
You are correct.. I know that at Buford (which is near Flowery Branch – Falcons HQ) there are many players that are sons & daughters of former Falcons players & coaches. The facilities at Buford are second to NONE in the state & I’d venture to say the Country… Heck, their Gwinnett Football League (2nd thru 8th grades – having nothing to do with the high school) spent $2.7 mil on facilities…
Now tell me, as you said, if you have a child that is a good football player, basketball player, baseball player, softball player, wrestler, heck even volleyball player (in their 3rd year of existance they made the state Super 6 & have 3 girls on scholarship)….. & you want the best for them…. Where would you send your son or daughter??? And their academics are very good to boot!!!
(OK, here come the haters!)
BullDawg Rick
March 5th, 2013
4:31 pm
@ Casey – Dekalb County schools & a child’s education??? Please, this is not 30-40 years ago when DeKalb county was the BEST in the State… Because of the NAACP & their cronies with their heads in the dirt, DeKalb County school system is a step away from losing their accrediation… That means that all students going to those pathatic schools (of which I attended many years ago, Avondale, the original Blue Devils!), will not be able to have the credidation to go to college…
Better get that kid outta there & into a Gwinnett Co school..
Also, scouts also know talent by the competition it plays.. Aside fron Tucker, & Stephenson (all that talent & not a sniff in a championship game, sad. Pathatic coaching Mr. Garrells) there’s not a decent program in DeKalb anymore
the truth
March 5th, 2013
4:33 pm
@Coach Who Knows..you really don’t know. The reason they go to Miller Grove is exposure. 4 consecutive state championships help, but things such as making a trip to the MaxPrep Holiday Classic to play against 2 teams from California that are playing in their state championship, a team from Washington that is a state champion, and a power from Illinois will get players noticed. I guarantee those kids played in front of more college recruiters in that tournament than Lithonia, Redan, Stone Mountain played in front of the last two years.
AAU Rules
March 5th, 2013
4:34 pm
There is a new bylaw in the GHSA rule book that was made specifically to stop teams like Norcross and Wheeler getting around the whole “undue influence” thing. The bylaw states that if a player is training with a parent/coach at a school and ends up transfering to that school, then he must sit out for one year. Even if the parent/coach they are training with, is not offiliated with that school in any way…. Basically what was (and still is) happening is AAU coaches are working with kids in the off-season at the high schools and then getting them to transfer there. That way the actual coaches of the high schools can say “i didnt know anything about it” and just play dumb.
the truth
March 5th, 2013
4:40 pm
Casey, sure they find talent, no one will miss one of the top 10 players in the country. But if I can increase the exposure to my son by having him go to one of the premier basketball schools like Wheeler, Miller Grove, Norcross, I will do it. If it is more for education, I am guarantee I am getting him out of DeKalb County, Clayton County, city of Atlanta schools.
Gene Wood
March 5th, 2013
4:46 pm
I am with Casey. Let’s not act as if colleges don’t recruit at every high school and AAU exposure event in Georgia. How many people move to school X thinking they are going to be a part of the Super Team only to find out there are 22 other people who had the same idea. Now they are languishing on the bench or getting 3 minutes per game, when had they stayed at neighborhood school X and played on a good team in a solid region, maybe not a Super Team, they still would have gotten exposure and playing time. So unless they start only giving scholarships out to players from the Usual Suspects Schools, the argument is bogus. There are more good schools and programs than Norcross, Buford, MG, Wheeler, Wesleyan. To add to that, kids go to Alabama for instance and sit behind 5 running backs when they could’ve stayed in a SEC/ACC got a good education and great playing time. Keep chasing that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow or stay and build something yourself.
Casey
March 5th, 2013
4:51 pm
@BullDawg Rick – You have to learn how to make your tax dollars work for you. Despite Dekalb’s woes, over the past 20 years, my children have always been part of great academic programs (IB, Magnet Programs) and are excellent students (standardized test scores and college admissions/graduations support this)….. No need to move to Gwinett; my last child is outta there with a full scholarship and the blessing of the NCAA…. after 2013, who knows what will happen…
Todd Holcomb
March 5th, 2013
4:56 pm
Region5Guru – Great research. … Yes, there is ‘disparity’ in college women’s basketball too. But why is the disparity in Georgia on the increase? A point I didn’t make in this story – Of the last 30 state championship games, only 3 have been decided by 6 points or less. If you go to Macon, you’re going to see some really good teams, but you might not see any really good games.
the truth
March 5th, 2013
5:01 pm
AAU..That is what you get from whining coaches, supporters, and local government officials. If a player is training at another school because the coach he plays for is not taking the time to train him (her) then don’t punish the player. High school basketball and football has reached the big time and there is a lot at stake for the players and the parents of the players. If a coach is not giving the training the players need then he does not need to be earning a living as a coach. It is just the way it is.
Dekalb Co Guy
March 5th, 2013
5:01 pm
Basketball players dont really have to move for the exposure, AAU ball rules in the summer, and if you kid is worth anything, schools will notice him/her. Basketball transfers move more for the “super team” mentality. They want to play for the “elite” team, the team that travels to play big games in other states, they want some of the “limelight”. I cant fought them for that too much though.
Coach Who Knows
March 5th, 2013
5:04 pm
Yes…. All of MG players are Dekalb County kids!!! The parents and players have been convinced that 1) they will be seen on a national level…..2) have the opportunity to play state championship every year…3) mg program will tremendously improve development…and 4) the other schools can’t offer the same opportunities!
The problems with that are 1) the other schools involved will always have a hard time getting better year in year out…. and 2) the players that are suppose to attend MG will end up getting weeded out like the Kyle kid who was forced to tranfers this year as a senior (now contributor for Columbia).
Gene Wood
March 5th, 2013
5:12 pm
@ Dekalb Co Guy, Exactly! My kid didn’t want to be #8 or 9 on a Super Team and decided to be vital at their own school and is getting the love they deserve. So many people are front runners and want to be in the in crowd. Everybody can’t play for Kentucky in basketball or Alabama in football. How about making your own path. They find kids in towns with 1 stop light so are you telling me they won’t find you in Metro Atlanta between highschool and AAU?
the truth
March 5th, 2013
5:12 pm
“The parents and players have been convinced that 1) they will be seen on a national level…..2) have the opportunity to play state championship every year…3) mg program will tremendously improve development…and 4) the other schools can’t offer the same opportunities!”
The trouble with your comment is the parents have been convinced because it is ACTUALLY HAPPENING. Other schools have the opportunity if they make it happen. There is an expense to doing it, it is not magically going to happen and there has to be involvement from parents and boosters. If you are not getting that the opportunity will not happen.
@Coach Who Knows
March 5th, 2013
5:15 pm
I am almost positive that any kid that plays at Columbia definately could play at MillerGrove. I saw the game this year. Not sure who the Kyle kid is but, if he gets time at Columbia its safe to say he would have gotten time at Miller Grove. and all of your other statments are well True… Outside of the columbia, MG, and i can now add Lithonia to the mix, what other schools in Dekalb are doing all that you stated?
the truth
March 5th, 2013
5:17 pm
@ Gene Wood. Good for your kid, but just like you and your kid did what you thought was best, don’t get mad at other parents who are doing what they think are best even if that is transferring to play for another school.
Coach Who Knows
March 5th, 2013
5:22 pm
@ the truth
So what is it that I don’t Know? Its obvious that they go there for exposure..but it doesn’t change the fact that they are recruited to come there!!
Just about everybody wants to associate themselves with a winner………..so with these this in mind, why do you think only certain incoming freshman end up at MG? I’m sure there are other players from other schools who want to go to MG too… MG’s success is no secret!!
Gene Wood
March 5th, 2013
5:23 pm
the truth. There is no anger involved, what I am saying and if people would be honest, they would admit it happens more than they think. If people are beating down the doors to go to the same handfull of schools thinking that’s where they will be discovered, how much time will people really get on a team stacked with 15 STUDS. Go read the blogs on the Wheeler/Hillgrove game and see people griping about who should’ve been playing and who shouldn’t for Wheeler. And next year more kids will think they’re gonna get their shot, which will push the kids there down even more.
Coach Who Knows
March 5th, 2013
5:36 pm
I’m not saying the kid couldn’t play at MG (he actually played there 3 yrs)………. I was just eluding to the fact that players were brought in and he was one of the casualities………..If you saw MG play, then you saw that they are a guard oriented team and that kid was not going to see the floor!!
@the truth……………… yes its only happening b/c the parents are letting it happen!!!!! If your kid has talent they WILL be seen know matter where they go to school!! Coaches can’t control where a kid goes to school but a District sure can!
HSFB Follower
March 5th, 2013
6:19 pm
Too many State Champions in GA PERIOD!!! Take the TOP 32 in the state and play it out for one title but that makes too much sense and GHSA has to have more championship games for more money! To ll you folks that while bout recruits and transfer…SHUT UP!!! Nobody is complaining about the debate teams and swim teams with all those transfers!!! Tired of folks complaining about transfers, you don’t know what a family/kid is going through. ugh!
Rev Al
March 5th, 2013
6:30 pm
Transfers….
Mike Steele
March 5th, 2013
6:48 pm
The 6 A final 4 was AWSOME , close games in spite of Norcross & Wheeler being transfer heavy vs N COBB & HILLGROVE who have all played together since 6 th grade in CCJBC! But that being said , if I could have gotten Lorenzo or Staley over at N COBB for a fee , I WOULD HAVE, but Coach Gorsuch (NC) would never go for that anyway! IT WAS A GREAT FINAL 4!
MC 12
March 5th, 2013
8:01 pm
The parity is not with Georgia High School Basketball, it’s Georgia High School Basketball Players. For the most part the players have no basketball IQ, they don’t know how to pass the ball to a teammate so they can do something with it, they take bad shots in crucial situations. I could go on , but you should get the message by now. The best TEAMS with high basketball IQ’s are left in the Championship games in all classifications. Most football(7 on 7) and basketball (AAU) scholarships are given out in the spring and summer.
LakeDawg
March 5th, 2013
8:04 pm
The main factor is transfers. There are a lot of SUPER TEAMS out there now. For example, in AAA the only “traditional” HS was North Hall and they got waxed. The 3 remaining teams were SUPER TEAMS…Buford, Savannah, Johnson, Savannah. Those teams look like college teams.
MC 12
March 5th, 2013
8:36 pm
@lakeDawg Do your home work. Gainesville is home grown and play together with the ability to have anybody have a big game. they dont depend on one player.
IDK
March 5th, 2013
8:48 pm
Miller grove did not start winning until Columbia left their the 4A classification and Region. Columbia ruled class 4A
actual GHSA player (in the AAAA championship game)
March 5th, 2013
9:50 pm
I beileve there should be one Elite and undisputed state champion, so there is no discrepancy between the best teams. I.E Columbia one of the best teams in Ga is often not highlighted like larger schools .. Miller Groove although they are better .. not realy fair
johnny too good
March 5th, 2013
10:00 pm
@LakeDawg, yes please go do your research, the kids at Johnson and Savannah are not transfers, they are in their neighborhood’s school, check the rosters from last year, three years ago, etc.
Metro Atlanta has a transfer problem, in Savannah the only schools recruiting are the private ones.
Hubert Green
March 5th, 2013
10:10 pm
Something nobody ever talks about; when a player transfers to another school, that opens up a spot at that school for somebody else. Many have benefitted from that opportunity. And the parents are happy because all they care about is playing time, not winning. So establish a super conference and let all the others play neighborhood ball. It would be your school’s choice based on transfers, talent level, et al.
Marist cagers making a change?
March 5th, 2013
10:29 pm
Like this rumor I heard a while ago…Marist is going to offer ex-Columbia Coach Phil McCrary the head Boys Basketball job? He will be able to enjoy the benefits of “double dipping”. PLEASE say it is true!!! Coach McCrary has forgotten more about coaching at the high school level than current Coach McClare will ever know!
Hope it turns out to be true!
jimmy
March 5th, 2013
10:40 pm
no u want be state back to back champs, Augustabred!!!
Big Cat
March 5th, 2013
11:24 pm
@Todd,
Thanks for the blog and to all who contributed comments and suggestions. There are some passionate high school basketball fans out there! However, not much was mentioned about holding the GHSA accountable for this mess. That is the governing body for high school sports in this state but the problems noted are not being addressed. There may need to be a movement similar to the Class A schools who organized to begin their own association before the GHSA took action!
BullDawg Rick
March 6th, 2013
12:52 am
@ Casey – You proved my point exactly… Use the system to better your child.. You did not keep your child in the same system they were stuck in throughout. You used what was available…
Thanks for proving my point…
& Congrats to your kids for making use of the system!!!
Recruiting exists & its not fair,but ow do you change it
March 6th, 2013
1:22 am
There is definitely a lot of recruiting going on at the high school level. My daughter was being recruited by 3 different schools when she was in middle school & none of those schools were located in our zone(i was informed about apartment complexes with addresses we could use,school personnel who would allow us to legally use their addresses located in the zone,fake documentation, etc.. I can proudly say she goes to the school in our zone as I did not get caught up in the high school recruiting scam. She’s proud to play with her friends,neighbors & enjoys AAU in the summer time for exposure in a more competitive setting. FYI: Langston Hughes actually had 2 freshmen & a sophomore who starts. I checked online & the team actually consists of 5 freshmen, 1 sophomore, 5 seniors & 5 juniors, however the lower classmen appear to contribute more to the team than the seniors overall. They were out of their league on Saturday night & playing an older, better,more experienced team. Super teams & recruiting does exist and I don’t believe there’s anyway to stop it.
Black
March 6th, 2013
5:18 am
Transfer look at the history of the schools in final four! Even the girls, it’s transfers all the way to small ball in class A.
Dekalb Co Guy
March 6th, 2013
7:12 am
@ Black
exactly. We dont know and cant say who gets recruited or transfers on their own, but if we look at those super teams who are blowing everyone out and look at their roster many of their teams are ladened with transfers. As someone mentioned about Miller Grove, not sure how this person knows, but his claim is 5 of their top 8 players arent from the Miller Grove zone, they either moved in or transferred via other means. And Im sure the same can be said for the Norcross, has been proven at Milton and a few other schools. It happens, not sure if anything can be done about it, but this does exist and has created a greater gap between the “haves” and the “have nots”
HOOPDIJOUR
March 6th, 2013
7:51 am
@Dekalb Co Guy Enjoy the domination by Dekalb County! 5 TEAMS vying for CHAMPIONSHIPS! Stuff you’re complaining (Parents decides what is best for THEIR child) about happens EVERYWHERE and EVERY sport. Enoy the next two days @Dekalb Co Guy!!!
Dwayne
March 6th, 2013
8:13 am
@swd, your assumption don’t hold water. try again.
hooper22
March 6th, 2013
8:39 am
@augustabred Mr. Spivey the new Dept Super is already looking into the situation..It wont be long!!
NoDistrictLinesInDekalb
March 6th, 2013
9:25 am
GHSA has to go with the football brackets and away from the home game quarter finals which give a big boost to the home teams. Yes I know football plays home games I am in favor of nuetral fields there too. (see Ohio & Cal). Recruiting, One year sit out no exceptions ! Dekalb football has its super powers and players are robbed from the non-powers. How do you go from FB at Stephenson one year to MLK the next? Undue influence rule where is it now?
Now look at @Marist Cager hoping for Coach Phil McCrary to come there. Marist how did you get your last forwards in Basketball? One from Lakeside the other from Pius feeder. I guess feeder programs are considered fair game. Tution incentive seems like what ever the free market brings.
When you don’t get far in the playoffs or live up to your communitys expectations well change is just around the corner. Example MLK football. Seems like the intern coach would of got a shot but when you lose to soon in playoffs anywhere someone says this way to the door.
Unless something changes the haves will always have and the have nots will always be just that. Looking forward to Saturday to seeing the Dekalb teams shine.
1trucker
March 6th, 2013
10:02 am
To whom it may concern…
If a high school wants your child to come to there school,and the child is in middle school.. IT IS NOT RECRUITING!!!!!
jojo sunhsine
March 6th, 2013
10:27 am
I don’t think we should scale down the number of teams competing, but I do think that the top 4 from the region tournaments should play. THEN take your power rankings (with the adjustment for playing quality vs. non quality opponents) and let the North teams play the South teams to begin with. Yes, that would probably eliminate most of the south teams, but the best should play the best. Also, if you are a school that gives tuition assistance (private or public) you must play up at least one classification, OR let individual sports from the same school play up (like Wesleyan girls). I read somewhere that the coach from Wesleyan would play up if GHSA would allow just her sport from her school to do so. I think that is the way for GHSA to go.
fan of the game
March 6th, 2013
1:14 pm
A lot of intelligent discussion here. My two cents
1.) You want regional state wide representation in the quarters and semis. It is good for the fan and game
2.) It is in the best interests of the student to minimize travel in the two week tourney period.
3.) I don’t have any inside info on the recruiting topic. My assumption has been that players and families self recruit. They discreetly interview the coach/school/team and make the move based on a
Perception of what is best for them….
4.) A mid season dekalb / gwinnet or or dekalb / Fulton challenge series would be good for the sport
Coach Who Knows
March 6th, 2013
3:01 pm
@ 1Tucker———– You are incorrect!!!!
It is recruiting if that kid is not zoned for your school!!! Thats why high school coaches are only allowed to talk to feeder middle schools about their sport! i.e….. you wont see Tucker High School coaches talking to stephenson middle school athletes about their sport. IT IS NOT ALLOWED!!
AAU
March 6th, 2013
3:31 pm
@the truth: You do know that high school coaches cant just practice with their guys year round right? these AAU coaches are doing this during “dead periods” when coachs are not allowed to practice with their kids. also, today’s kids listen to their AAU coach over anyone else…whether the guy has a clue or not.
E
March 6th, 2013
7:21 pm
LAKE DAWG YOU ARE OBIVOUSLY A FAN OF NORTH HALL…JOHNSON AND SAVANNAH ARE NOT SUPER TEAMS…THESE SCHOOLS HAVE BEEN PLAYING IN 5A FOR YEARS…THESE TWO SCHOOLS ARE 2.5MILES APART AND THESE KIDS GREW UP TOGETHER…QUARTEMAN IS THE ONLY TRANSFER..HE TRANSFERRED FROM SAVANNAH TO JOHNSON…BUT THESE ARE NEIGHBORHOOD KIDS….GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU TRY PROP UP N HALL
Donald
March 6th, 2013
8:23 pm
It is very easy to be dominant when the top schools can get the best players every year. It is a system set up to work against the smaller schools. It is hardly a surprise when teams like Milton, Norcross, Miller Grove, Wheeler, and others are head and shoulders above everyone else when players from anywhere can transfer to these schools and create super teams. As another poster said, these schools do not consist of neighborhood players anymore. These schools are nothing more than junior college teams now and we have the GHSA to thank for it by continuously turning a blind eye or a deaf ear to it.
WildWildWest
March 7th, 2013
6:23 am
@Donald, I am with you totally. Since the people who follow the rules are less likely to be able to compete, GHSA should just allow kids to go wherever they want. I guarantee if you go to an apartment complex near the Super Schools you would find most of the girls and boys basketball players live there. Each year you will see fewer schools like Hillgrove and N.Cobb with neighborhood kids and more transfer and move in schools dominating.
Concerned
March 7th, 2013
12:51 pm
AAU, you are so right about players listening to their AAU coaches. These AAU coaches are telling players not to listen to their high school coaches. They come to the games and coach from the sidelines. No respect for the coaches.
Petey
March 8th, 2013
11:49 am
Seems like a lot of jealous people throwing stones. There are super programs at high school just like college. The kids want to go there to get exposure and experience success at the highest level. You are talking about 17-18 yo kids emulating their pro (Dream Team) idols and recruiting each other to play together. When you build a program like that you don’t need to recruit. People will come. Keep in mind, those bashing a team like Norcross, that Norcross lost their best player to transfer the last 2 years. Chris Bolden left for N. Gwinnett after Norcross’ 2011 state championship over the Milton super team and D-1 6′7″ swingman Harold Givens left Norcross after last year. He would have been the best player on Norcross this year.
athensbball
March 8th, 2013
2:17 pm
@petey: thats precisely our point. If a smaller or lesser known school looses its best player then it would devastate the program…norcross can lose players and just reload with some more transfers. when Givens left they went and got the 2 players from Whitefield Academy. So they lost one D-1 player and picked up 2 more…not a bad trade
obvious
March 9th, 2013
2:39 am
Without question Norcross and N.Gwinnett are very talented teams. But upon further inspection, tell me how many of N. Gwinnett’s starting 5 were there in the 9th grade? The answer is 0. Look at Norcross roster from there previous championship teams and you will see Marietta and Stephenson players. Not hating just stating. Makes an honest guy like myself see what needs to be done in order to compete.
LakeDawg
March 9th, 2013
10:16 am
Gainesville, Johnson and Savannah are all open enrollment schools. I’ll grant that Gainesville doesn’t have an allstar team this year. However, Johnson IS an allstar team. I don’t now much about Savannah, but I suspect the same.
Paladin Death Dealer
March 10th, 2013
9:52 am
The word now is “if you’re not cheating, you’re not trying”…RECRUITING IS COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTROL, everyone knows it, but everyone also knows that no one is gonna do anything about it. So if the other elite teams are moving stars in, I better do it unless I don’t want to be in the elite group. So I got to keep up with the Jones’s. Give a false address and let the good times roll. GHSA don’t have enough manpower to see if they are really living at the new address or not. UNFORTUNATELY, Cheating has become a sign of the times in high school athletics. We have city schools, private schools, and public schools all playing with a different set of rules. We think that asterisks ought to be applied to teams records with these athletic move ins. What are we teaching these children? Beat the system anyway you can for your own personal gain!!! That’s a great life lesson to be learned from high school sports.
Petey
March 10th, 2013
10:43 am
athensbball if THAT is your point you need to rethink it, possibly after you are old enough to graduate. Last time I checked this is still America. These kids don’t “belong” to a program. We are all free to move anywhere we want in the entire country, any time we want to. Norcross was not always what they are today. They were fortunate to hire a couple of very good coaches who brought with them a track record for success and built Norcross into a successful program with national exposure.That structure and exposure is a spring board to the next level for kids that recognize they are talented nough to thrive on that level. Don’t think for a second that kids (and their parents) with that level of skills don’t know how to maximize their opportunity to grow and be seen competing against the highest levels. The business of sports has trickled down to the high school level. If you think that Jessie MacMillan or Eddie Martin before him were hiding out in the shadows watching some kid play to pull him aside and talk to him you just don’t know those 2 individuals. Kids go where they want. Norcross has only 2 sr’s. There will be upcoming kids who saw them win again and say “I want to be on that team and play for a winner and have a chance for a state title”. The only recruiting going on is between kids on AAU teams. THAT WAS THE POINT!
Petey
March 10th, 2013
10:54 am
BTW athensball Givens is a top rated class of ‘13 prospect. Neither Carter nor Pinkett are D1 prospects. Carter is a D1 FOOTBALL prospect. As a 6′5″-6′6″ C or PF he’s not big enough for D1. I was surprised that he wasn’t more of a factor in last nights game. Pickett is a 5′11″ SG who can’t shoot from the outside. Lockdown defender but NOT a D1 candidate. Norcross’ best player by far if Goodwin and he’s talking to Middle TN St. So it really wasn’t 2 D1’s for 1 D1 trade.
MJ Abram
March 11th, 2013
1:13 pm
The comments I ead on this subject are pretty interesting. I believe the problem with GA HS hoops is classifcation and transfer. There are too many classes in the state which has watered down the competition. Remember it was the state legislature that pushed for increase in classification to 5A all because some senator in NW GA thought that private schools had unfair advantage with players and school had to count students 1.5x if they were out of zoned areas which pushed some schools up a classification. I don’t know how the 6A came about it’s too many in my opinion. Go back to 4classifications and I definitely don’t understand the public/private split in Class A. When I played private schools played against the public schools in the same classification. If private schools don’t want to play against public competition then go the private school league. Also the regions have become too spread out which dilutes the talent as well. Hopefully GSHA won’t add anymore classes and revisit the Class A split. Right now metro Atl is the hotbed of hoops. mainly becuase the surrounding counties are growing and new schools are added . It may change in a few years. I remember for some years in the 90’s the state hoop tournament was called the “Albany Invitational” because most of the schools were in the Final 4.
Transfering in hoops has been around a long time. You to be you just had kids going to schools in the same citiy. Now you have kids living in one town and going to school in another county. It has turned into wild west shootout now. it has just became real popular at this time because of AAU. More athletes give more effort to the AAU team than the HS team. I think this has taken the competition and real funn from HS hoops. Used to have guys coming up together playing together Jr High and high school and having a chance to have good teams by jr and sr year. Everybody wants to play for the best HS/coach. All in the name of a scholarship. If you’re good they will find you. Congrats to all GA state champs this year.