Camden County wins $20,000 coin flip vs. Norcross
By David Purdum / For the AJC
Camden County won a $20,000 coin flip, when Norcross athletic director Kirk Barton incorrectly chose tails Saturday at a remote country store in Soperton.
The result has Norcross headed five hours south to Kingsland this week for a AAAAAA quarterfinal playoff game at Camden County.
The Georgia High School Association has been using a coin flip to decide home field in playoff games between teams with the same seeding for more than a decade. Both Norcross and Camden County are 1-seeds after winning region championships.
Pre-game coin flips like this one are not nearly as valuable as the ones held in remote country store parking lots. Photo: Josh D. Weiss / Special
According to Georgia Football Historians Association, Camden coach Jeff Herron has taken his team on 12 trips to the Georgia Dome during his 12-year career. He knows how much a 300-mile, overnight trip costs.
“It is an extremely expensive thing, when you have to travel five or six hours like we do or like Norcross will have to this time. It’s a heavy financial burden on a school,” said Herron. “When we travel to Atlanta, we stay at a very cheap place and eat probably four meals total. But we’re still probably going to spend $20-to-$25,000 just on buses, food and lodging.”
Camden County athletic director Gary Blount said Herron’s estimate may even be a little low.
“It’s probably in the $24-to-$28,000 range,” said Blount, who met Barton for the coin flip in the parking lot of the country store off an exit on I-16. “We don’t let Coach Herron go anymore. He was like 1-8 for his career. He’s a better football coach than coin flipper.”
Norcross coach Keith Maloof said the face-to-face coin flip is silly and was happy to allow Barton to make the call for Norcross. He did not offer his athletic director any advice on whether to take heads or tails.
“I didn’t give Coach Barton any instructions,” Maloof said with a laugh. “I told people after the [second-round win over South Gwinnett] game to go over there and rub on him for good luck. It didn’t work.”
In Barton’s defense, he was playing hurt and was in the hospital early this week after undergoing a heart stent procedure. Maloof said Monday that Barton was doing well.
It’s the second trip to South Georgia for Norcross this season. The Blue Devils traveled to Moultrie for a preseason scrimmage against Colquitt in August.
This week, Maloof plans to leave early Thursday afternoon and have an evening walk-through in Kingsland. He will try to keep his team in its normal football routine Friday, leading up the game.
The GHSA began using coin flips to decide the home field in the early 2000s, said executive director Ralph Swearngin. The GHSA had previously predetermined home teams by using a rotating bracket with the top team in a matchup getting the home field one year and the bottom team the next.
Coaches didn’t like that, and coin flips were instituted as the deciding factor.
Swearngin is not aware of any movement to eliminate the coin flip from the equation, but says ideas have been floated around about how to limit the travel required. Video conference technology like Skype is one option. Coaches are now using online technology to swap video as well, so there really is little need for a face-to-face meeting.
“It was actually suggested that I do it up here in the office, but, with all the conspiracy theorists out there, I thought better of it,” said Swearngin. “What happens with coaches in every sport, they like or dislike a rule based on the last time the rule came into play for or against them. As long as they haven’t had a bad recent experience with a rule, they’re not in the mood to change anything.”
So for now, high school teams will have their playoff fates decided by a flip of the coin, with thousands of dollars on the line in some cases.
“I don’t know that I have a better solution, but I think there’s probably one out there,” said Herron. “There’s so much riding on it, and it does almost feel incredible that we would let the flip of a coin decide that.”
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96 comments Add your comment
Devillover
November 28th, 2012
10:18 am
At best this is an outdated way of selecting home field especially when only one team is undefeated.
Why not use their season record to earn home field advantage like the NFL.
Also, at this stage of the tournament why not play at a neutral field. It s my understanding that some states do.
THE TRUE HURT
November 28th, 2012
10:32 am
This sound like GOP 2012 election, out dated southern thinking. MOVE FORWARD GHSA.
MIKE IN MCDONOUGH
November 28th, 2012
10:40 am
Let’s see. Maybe let the team with the highest GPA have the home field advantage. After all, isn’t this part of an educational experience?
aaron ashmore
November 28th, 2012
10:44 am
Great Article! Interesting read. I would like to see a breakdown of the coin tosses over the years showing which team at teh longest distance to travel etc. I read about this in the Book Friday Night Lights with the only difference being who would ADVANCE in the playoff and who would go home. Again, great article.
aaron ashmore
November 28th, 2012
10:45 am
Should read “which team had the longest….”
Idea from Buckeye Land
November 28th, 2012
10:52 am
@David Purdum does Norcross get any money to help in the travel cost since it is so expensive ? I had always heard that they (the state) does pay for travel,refs,police and other costs during the playoffs. The other side of that is to play at the nuetral sites like they do in Ohio after the 1st round. At least the overnight stay would be eliminated. I think Georgia does allow more teams in the playoffs I guess to take in a bigger slice of the pie.
Idea from Buckeye Land
November 28th, 2012
10:54 am
The cost of tickets for the high school playoffs is way too high double what the season is !
David Purdum
November 28th, 2012
11:10 am
@MikeInMcDonough: I actually asked GHSA and Coach Herron about that. It would be very difficult to quantify and prove, they said, but I think it’s worth looking at. I always thought the BCS should have figured the GPA into the equation, even if just a tiny, tiny percentage. Nothing should be decided by a coin flip, IMO. NFL Draft order, home field … nothing. Better ways to reward teams for different forms of performance.
David Purdum
November 28th, 2012
11:13 am
@IdeafromBuckeyeLand: Good question. I’ll ask about Norcross getting any help with expenses. I like the neutral field idea as well. Eliminate the overnight stay, and you’ll cut the cost significantly. Good post. Appreciate you reading.
Colquitt Supporter
November 28th, 2012
11:15 am
I thought the visiting team got a higher share of the gate to help offset their travel expenses. 6000 fans at $12 equals 72,000. Not sure what % goes to each school, officials, GHSA, etc. but anything helps. Does anyone know the breakdown?
57Cat
November 28th, 2012
11:17 am
During the regular season, the travelling team’s expenses are paid first out of the gate receipts, then the remainder is split between the two schools. I wonder how it works during the playoffs. Obviously, the GHSA will get a slice, but are the travelling teams compensated as they are during the season?
Jammer
November 28th, 2012
11:57 am
57Cat
The way i understand it the payouts work the same way for the playoffs except the percentages are adjusted due to non contract agreed payouts as are done with visiting teams during the regular season IE Carver Columbus was garanteed a certain $$ to come to Moultrie to play.
The home school still absorbs the cost of the stadium out of there share, the extra cost of the tickets goes to the extra GHSA staff the works the play offs.
Jammer
November 28th, 2012
12:27 pm
Playing at a neutral site on first look sounds appealing, but when you start to break it down not so much. First there is the expense of venue (rental). can most of the A, AA schools justify that cost as there fans numbers are generally alot lower than the bigger AAAAAA schools. Ok to help that lets play multiple games to increase the draw. There are 28 games scheduled for this Friday, so multiple venues are needed and then split for 2 days.
Then there is the fact that team fans do not travel as well as they bring in the home crowd. I am referencing this on typical Region 1 being 2000-3000 home fans to traveling with average of 1500. It is hard to imagine that the Atl area schools would bring the crowds when they have trouble filling the stands at home
sportsnut
November 28th, 2012
12:38 pm
Win all your games and let someone else worry about it.
spider
November 28th, 2012
12:52 pm
well sportsnut, norcross did win all their games and still lost.
Dewayne
November 28th, 2012
12:55 pm
Why not have the four brackets in each classification play at different neutral fields? Then the semis and finals played at the Georgia Dome? NW NE SE SW division so no one has to travel to South Ga. from North Ga. for a playoff game. I know South Ga. isn’t close to Atlanta, but by that time who cares you would be playing in the “final 4″.
spider
November 28th, 2012
12:55 pm
hopefully a couple of norcross rich parents and alum will pitch in with the cost.
Graydog
November 28th, 2012
1:09 pm
I think the coin toss is not all Norcross will lose this week.Teams peak and let down. A team that peaked very early in the season ,then, let down ,and, peaked again is an experienced,determined and focused team. Good luck Norcross.
Dum-Bass
November 28th, 2012
1:14 pm
Apparently at some schools, this is not a problem anyway. I know some in 1-AAAAAA, such as Propst and the Packers always go up a day early to games around Atlanta, and have heard the cost is paid by the Packer Booster club. Probably is true, because he does it consistently, and as we all know they have a lot of road games in the playoffs it seems every year. They must like it, they keep winning them!
eaglenationrising
November 28th, 2012
1:27 pm
This is a very interesting article that I wish was getting more traction with posters. I have stated this for years when “clueless” posters and even AJC writers have suggested that programs need to be in regions that are hundreds of miles apart. There has been this steady cry for Camden County to play in Region 1 and programs like Northside (Warner Robins) and Warner Robins to play in Region 1. Thus exposing the students to hours of bus time and the athletic departments to crippling travel costs. It simply makes no logical sense.
The costs are high for state playoff games. The gas costs alone are high for any events (tennis matches, soccer, basketball, One Act, Debate, Literary, you name it). The state has to take a long look at how they are doing business. I believe that the GHSA is in somewhat of a time vacuum over there in Thomaston. Georgia is the 9th largest state in America. However, there are only 8 regions. There has to be a better way.
Reg 5aaaaa guy
November 28th, 2012
1:30 pm
Visiting team gets 50 percent of revenues plus travel expenses set by ghsa per mile….off the top after the 12 percent sent to ghsa
Home team actually gets less money than the traveling team and has to pay security etc out of their portion
DTL918
November 28th, 2012
1:31 pm
They could do it just the same way we do here in Texas……every playoff game for the entire playoffs is at a neutral site, and both schools must agree or else the UIL (GHSA) in your case, decides for you. No such thing as home field advantage in high school football playoffs in Texas.
TX Jacket
November 28th, 2012
1:32 pm
In Texas, every game in all 6 rounds of playoffs for all 10 football divisions is played at a neutral site unless the teams agree to a home game situation. Teams will definately choose a game venue based on rental cost to cut expenses. For long trips, games are late afternoon on Saturday so there is no hotel stay… drive out, play, drive back. Needless to say, long trips for games in Texas is common. All championship games this year (and last year) are at Jerry world in Arlington.
In Colorado, higher seeded teams only get home field in the first round and after that it is a coin toss to see who’s home field gets used. Championship games have been being played at Mile High for a few years.
eaglenationrising
November 28th, 2012
1:32 pm
@ Dewayne: This is because so many people in specific parts of the nation believe their region is something special. As a Northside fan, we found it laughable that these folks in southwest Georgia believe that their region is something different. I am from Warner Robins and I live in metro Atlanta. Like many Atlantans, we here all of this stuff from Gwinnett County, who are convinced that their part of the state is unique. The entire scenario is crazy.
Jammer
November 28th, 2012
1:41 pm
“What happens with coaches in every sport, they like or dislike a rule based on the last time the rule came into play for or against them. As long as they haven’t had a bad recent experience with a rule, they’re not in the mood to change anything.”
This statement in the article is the bottom line, if it aint you, your not worried bout it. If Camden had lost this coin toss I doubt we would even have this article to read. Anyone got an estimate of how many miles Colquitt County has traveled just in Playoff games since 09 with only 1 of them played at home?
aaron ashmore
November 28th, 2012
2:04 pm
I still don’t like the idea of a netural venue. In small towns, a lot of “mom and pop” businesses donate to the local football program. I would like to see those same stores get a large “pay day” by hosting a semi or the final game at home (providing it’s THEIR local school playing). Kind of a hard pill to swallow when your quarterly income is slightly off but yet you contribute money/items to your local football program and a similar sized town 100 miles away gets a hugh payday for hosting a game because it’s the “halfway” point btw the two schools.
aaron ashmore
November 28th, 2012
2:08 pm
@Dewayne: Good point on the NW NE SE SW division for the state. They did a “similar” thing in years past with the north/south champion mtg for the championship.
high school sports fan
November 28th, 2012
2:15 pm
GHSA FOOTBALL PLAYOFF FINANCES
D. Financial Procedures:
1. Total game receipts will include all revenue from ticket sales plus any payments for radio or television
broadcasting, and will not include money from the sale of programs and concessions.
2. All band chaperones and other support personnel must have tickets.
3. The division of game receipts will be handled as follows:
(a) From the gross receipts:
(1) Twelve percent (12%) will be sent to the GHSA Office along with a financial report. Each Football
Financial Report Form shall include the number of spectators admitted with a GHSA pass, along with
a copy of the sign-in sheets listing the names and numbers of the passes used.
(2) The visiting team shall receive reimbursement for travel expenses in the amount of $5.00 per mile (one
way) taken from the game receipts and guaranteed by the host school. NOTE: If the game is played
at a neutral site, both teams will be reimbursed for mileage.
(3) The game officials shall be paid.
(b) After the items in Section “a” above have been paid, the remainder shall be divided equally between the
two teams.
(c) Local service charges, stadium charges, lights, cost of operating personnel, etc., are not to be deducted
prior to the division of funds, and are considered a part of the expenses of the host school.
Some states split the playoffs into two sections…MS has North Half and South Half. It cuts travel to no more than 3 hours for most games. The state championship games are in Jackson which is basically centrally located. Tennessee splits their’s East/West due to the length of the state from E to W. Finals are in Nashville or used to be.
Adam
November 28th, 2012
2:22 pm
@aaron ashmore: That could be simplified even more by just having a Northern and Southern bracket like Alabama does. The southern champ meets the northern champ in the finals on a neutral field.
mightyredelephants
November 28th, 2012
2:26 pm
@sportsnut: winning all of your games doesn’t solve the issue. That’s why Norcross and Camden had to flip a coin…they are both region champions
Jammer
November 28th, 2012
2:27 pm
@aaron ashmore
the issue with a north vs south is if you look at the logistics, south of Hwy 16 in griffen there is only Region 1 AAAAAA , there would still be a hefty amount of travel expense.
And I have to agree with ENR that there are more events than football that these schools compete in without the budgets given to the football team.
in support of students
November 28th, 2012
2:46 pm
An article or investigation on how much money the GHSA gets from the playoffs, fees, and fines would be very enlightening. They charge way too much which inturn takes money away from kids. 10 or 12% of every playoff gate in every sport and they charge a yearly fee and fines. That is a large amount of money and where does it go?
aaron ashmore
November 28th, 2012
3:06 pm
@Jammer
You are right. The funds for other sports does not compare to football and in some cases, other sports “dip” into football money to help offset cost. I’m still for the “hometown” hosting playing and championship games. The Dome was ok for the semi but nothing like a “home” feel when you win it all.
Older Camden Cat
November 28th, 2012
3:11 pm
Just get on the bus and take that long ((BUS)) ride down here like we have done for years have a good trip and be safe.
Keenan
November 28th, 2012
3:31 pm
GHSA need to establish a power rating system. I’m originally from Louisiana and continue to follow their HS football and that’s what they do.
David Purdum
November 28th, 2012
3:46 pm
@highschoolsportsfan — Awesome info. Appreciate it.
@Keenan: Talked to Camden AD about power ratings. He said, “But who’s do you use? Sometimes you look at the rankings or ratings and simply don’t agree with them.” I’m a NOLA guy, BTW. Covered Slidell/Northshore football when Forte was there. Big-time talent down there.
Dewayne
November 28th, 2012
3:52 pm
NORTH and SOUTH would work, but the travel time would still be crazy. That’s why I suggested the 4 divisions to cut travel time in half at least. I know it would never happen, but it’s just a thought!!
Farcus
November 28th, 2012
4:07 pm
THE TRUE HURT
November 28th, 2012
10:32 am
This sound like GOP 2012 election, out dated southern thinking. MOVE FORWARD GHSA.
You are an idiot but, you probably already knew that fact.
Top Recruit
November 28th, 2012
4:33 pm
So it cost Norcross about $20,000 to $25,000 for their preseaon game against Colquitt County. And it probably cost that same amount for Camden County and Colquitt County to play in the Dome in August in the Corky Kell Classic.
Now ponder this. No team in the state of Georgia has played more road games and won more in playoff format the past 4 years than Colquitt County in rural south Georgia. How much do you think that costs the school system and the fans of Colquitt County, including boosters and season ticket holders. Those numbers would stun a lot of those Gwinnett County and metro Atlanta schools.
You can bet restuarants, motels, and shopping malls along I-75 the past few years have benefitted from the Colquitt County teams, cheerleaders, band, fans,and supporters. Put some more dollars out there that benefitted someone else other than Colquitt County.
i'mjustsayingwhati'msaying
November 28th, 2012
4:38 pm
Camden County has been traveling with a coin toss for years and this is the firs article that I have seen about it. Teams can decide whether or not to leave a day early. This is not a requirement, makes good sense though. So the food and hotel stay is something the school takes on in leaving a day early. Good information and insight has been given, but again, why now?
David Purdum
November 28th, 2012
4:51 pm
@i’mjustsayingwhati’msaying: To your question of why now: I haven’t been covering preps for the AJC in awhile; this was my first season in close to five years. I’ve been trying to cover different angles this season and thought the coin flip was an interesting story. Hoped it would drum up discussion of ways we can eliminate it. I can’t believe Coach Herron had lost so many coin flips. Appreciate you reading.
Colquitt Fan
November 28th, 2012
4:52 pm
I don’t believe for a second it costs 25K a trip. Rush only takes the two deep up the day before. That’s 44 players max, at four to a room that’s 11 rooms for players and say two coaches per room. I don’t see more than $2000 on rooms per trip. I would imagine theybge a deal for renting 20-25 rooms for no more than $100 a night. How much is it for buses and food? $20,000? No way it costs that much. Remember a few weeks ago when rush was Cheatin for going up a day early?
David Purdum
November 28th, 2012
4:58 pm
@TopRecruit: According to multiple posters above, road teams end up making out all right. The fans and local sponsors, like you said, are the ones that really lose out. Tough spot for South Georgia folks.
Scott
November 28th, 2012
5:00 pm
East Coweta made the trip last weekend to Camden County. The EC Booster Club pays for the cost to travel., rented Charter busses for the trip. The boys left the school at 10 am, booster club got sandwiches for them and they stopped and ate lunch in a rest area. They stopped again at a Cracker Barrell for dinner, again paid for by the booster club. They then got back on the busses after the game and got home around 4 am. From what I understand they got half the gate, not sure if there was some milage paid. It is very expensive and from what I have been told for all road games the cost of travel is paid by the booster clubs.
StingerSplash
November 28th, 2012
5:08 pm
I’m sure we can figure out who Maloof is (or already know) but there is no previous reference until we are presented with a quote from the singularly-named Maloof.
StingerSplash
November 28th, 2012
5:09 pm
Besides, has anyone seen Camden’s stadium? Like they don’t have $20G hanging around for a trip like that?
lookwhostalkin
November 28th, 2012
5:20 pm
Ok – Colquitt Fan – so our schools AD is a liar, What does he gain by saying the costs of these trips are way more than u believe. So you can move the whole team and all the coaches, trainers etc. for pennies – maybe you should take the AD’s job and save all of us some doe-ray-me. Camden has never complained – like somebody else said earlier – if we had lost the flip – you wouldn’t be wasting your cost cuttin fingers…. Just Sayin….
Stump_Meister
November 28th, 2012
5:20 pm
Play the darn games in Macon and get it over with. I dont live there but would drive there to see good quality games such as the ones coming up this weekend. Win-win for everyone, If teams from Macon happen to get in, good for them. Seems like a simple solution, but then again, with all the “politics” involved, what do I know?
Colquitt Fan
November 28th, 2012
5:39 pm
Lol did I say he was a liar? Quit cryin. What are the costs that add up to that much?
Camden74
November 28th, 2012
5:50 pm
No mater what type of system GHSA implements, there will be a complaint form one or more sections of the state. Any system put into place will have some type of flaw. The teams down South have dealt with long travel and high travel expenses for years. It’s just the nature of living in a rural area and having HS sports teams. One sure way for a team to reduce it’s travel expenses during the playoffs is to finish higher in your region. That’s why every game counts! Roll on Camden County Wildcats, Roll on!
AJC
November 28th, 2012
5:52 pm
@StingerStash: Thanks for heads up. Earlier line with first reference got cut. My mistake.
David Purdum
November 28th, 2012
5:57 pm
@ColquittFan: I was skeptical at first, too, when Herron gave me his estimate. It seemed like a lot. But then when the AD followed with a slightly higher estimate, I knew it wasn’t too far out of whack. They do see the bills and budget after all.
ILOVESPX
November 28th, 2012
5:59 pm
Could you whine anymore? Boo feakin’ hoo!
just saying
November 28th, 2012
6:02 pm
Enter your comments here
Norcross has the cash
November 28th, 2012
6:04 pm
Don’t worry, Norcross has the cash, they are a Title 1 School.
just saying
November 28th, 2012
6:05 pm
Can’t use GPA as a determination for home field advantage… to many Cheaters in Atlanta Public Schools… did we forget that already? Coin toss is not too fair… What amazes me is, a team, can go to the playoffs with a 5-6 record, hit a 5 game winning streak, and win the state title… with a 10-6 record…
*~l~*
November 28th, 2012
6:07 pm
David Purdum are you the same Sports Reporter that used to work at the Waycross Journal Harold in Waycross, Ga?
Colquitt Fan
November 28th, 2012
6:16 pm
I’m just sayin our team has traveled like that 3 times at least and in now way would we be allowed to spend 75k on travel, no chance. Maybe others down more, idk
Dum-Bass
November 28th, 2012
7:22 pm
***Stump_Meister**** been saying for years the finals should be in Macon, very centrally located. Basketball playoffs have been there for years, unless they have stopped that and I’m unaware of it. Even Warner Robins (15 mi. from Macon) would be good, and I AM SURE NORTHSIDE AND WR BOTH WOULD LOVE THAT! BTW, whoever(forgot now) said the TN playoffs are in Nashville is incorrect. They moved it to Cookeville 2-3 yrs. ago, which is a little more centrally-located.
uh-sigh
November 28th, 2012
7:50 pm
To cut cost I have 3 proposals
1) ghsa shd build centrally located field somewhere in Macon or Warner Robins, therefore everyone should be just close enough they can travel home directly after the game.
2)Make sure your bus drivers can drive to the game and drive back home right after the game. If not, double up drivers on those who can’t make the round trip (cheaper expense than paying for everyone hotel).
3). Just have a north vs south bracket since we want to see north ga vs south ga anyway.
David Purdum
November 28th, 2012
7:58 pm
@*~l~* : Nope. Never worked for Waycross paper. Have worked in Louisiana, Oklahoma, Florida and now Georgia.
David Purdum
November 28th, 2012
8:00 pm
@JustSaying: There are certainly a lot of obstacles to using GPA, but seems like it would be worth it to pursue and see if we could come with something that would be trustworthy.
YELLERJACKETZ1
November 28th, 2012
9:11 pm
ALL CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES SHOULD BE PLAYED IN CALHOUN MUCH BETTER TURF THAN THE DOME PLUS I WOULDNT HAVE TO DRIVE TO HOTLANTA PLUS WE LOVE ALL THE MONEY COMING N FROM YALL!!! HAHA
Hardhat
November 28th, 2012
9:48 pm
@Great idea from Buckeye Land. Playoff games are held at the biggest schools in the state. They also use Canton Hall of Fame field, U of Akron,U of Cincinnati’s field and have played finals at Ohio State. College coaches dont mind not having to travel to look at players in person. Now you have to find places with the field turf. I know the arguement about the mom and pop stores that donate but look you have 5 games at home and one playoff first round game thats 6. If they need more to survive than they need not donate as much. Heck the home teams as far as money goes get the short end of the stick so why not play at neutral fields? Let GHSA play for lights, mileage, and police and host keeps concession stand money.
Tom
November 28th, 2012
10:17 pm
To all the people who are proposing a north/south format… would you please tell us where you draw the line in 6-A and 5-A? 109 of the 138 5A and 6A schools in Georgia are in metro Atlanta or points northward. In 6-A 7 of 63 (11%) schools are not in metro Atlanta (or northward) and in 5-A 22 of 75 (29%) schools are in east, middle and south Georgia. There is NO WAY to divide the large schools up in a geographically equitable way.
Georgia is a big state. Georgia has a very unbalanced population. Our situation does not resemble most of our neighboring states. It seems to me we either stick with what we have (maybe making some tweaks here and there) or we switch to what Texas does (which is in a similar situation, just proportionally larger on size and inequitable distribution).
pioneer
November 28th, 2012
10:46 pm
Right, Buckeye, neutral sites make more sense if you want the best teams winning instead of worrying about who to “reward” for a successful season so far. Georgia does everything else right in their playoff system, seems odd to be doing coin flips. About as stupid as that old system of playing semis in the Dome and finals on home HS fields.
mistermak
November 28th, 2012
11:21 pm
As a Camden alum and and fan, I believe that Norcross should have had the home feild advantage due the their record. I can see a coin flip if the records were the same but in this case they were not so the better record should have prevailed.
Gwinnett Fan
November 29th, 2012
12:08 am
Don’t cry for Norcross. They get half the gate receipts for the game.
10,000 x $12 =120K
Jacketaxe
November 29th, 2012
7:53 am
Win your region AND win the flip and you are gold. Neutral site just make both teams mad, gee folks it’s 50/50.
King Of Diamonds
November 29th, 2012
8:00 am
I think the GHSA will keep the same rules until a reasonable idea come about. In this case it is an issue for Norcross or any South Ga team that travels more than 3.5 hours. I am not sure what where teams would play on a neutral field inbetween those miles.Arrangements would have to be made at different schools or maybe play at some jr. college or div II football field. There are so many within that intermediate mile that you could easily host a game. At this point in the state playoffs most teams have a pretty strong booster revenue for these kinds of situations. I know for a fact that most South Ga teams are prepared to travel on a moment notice. It’s a little different up North. Although you have more people up here and depending on the program, the money doesn’t flow as easy because of the revenue sharing so the football programs depends on the booster support. Schools who has their own staduims keeps their gate money and is able to do more when it comes to expenditures of travel along with the help of there boosters.
Good luck to Norcross & Camden. May the best tteam win
King Of Diamonds
November 29th, 2012
8:09 am
If your going to reward a team with home field advantage, then it should be the team with the best record.
If both teams are undefeated then it should come down to:
1. How many quality opponents (top 10) you beat & strength of your region.
2. Scoring margin (For Offense)
3. Points allowed (For Defense)
This might be a wrong way at doing this, but at least you cannot argue over who you played & your region strength.
Just an idea maybe someone can add on to improve a better way of handling the coin flip.
David White
November 29th, 2012
8:29 am
I agree that neutral sites would be the best way to go. In Texas, if a neutral site cannot be agreed apon by both coaches, then there is a coin flip. Coin flips rarely happen because nobody wants to take a chance of losing and having to go to someone elses house to play. You can’t go just by records due to fact that the teams don’t play the same opponents. Fans of both schools will travel to the game and you will also get fans of football to show up, I plan to travel an hour and a half this Friday to watch Camden-Norcross and I have absolutely nothing to do with either school.
cat doc
November 29th, 2012
8:31 am
I would go back to the old format of having the semis in the dome. Then the championships at the schools. The dome is cool, but it doesn’t have the highschool feel. The cost of travel is real. If you want to cut cost don’t go early , go the day of the game. At present the coin flip is the only fair way.
jvillebil
November 29th, 2012
8:31 am
To be honest with everyone. I like the format the way it is. If you’re a south Ga school, Valdosta, Lowndes, Camden, Ware, Colquitt ect you have the boosters and can afford to travel. The stronger program you build the more you can stay at home. Small schools like Charlton, Clinch in south Ga somehow come up with a way to travel because the community gets behind them and helps pay the way. The only thing I think they need to change on the flip of the coin is go to Rock, Scirrors, Paper. LOL
jvillebil
November 29th, 2012
8:34 am
Scissors, not sure what a Scirror is. LOL
MC
November 29th, 2012
8:53 am
I like the idea for games to be played on a neutral field in Macon for the larger classes – 6A / 5A for 2nd roundd thru Semis would work if the game involved North vs. South GA schools. Mercer University is building a brand new staduim for their start up program. My guess is that Mercer would love the increased visibiity of their program/location/facilities, etc. and it would solve alot of issues.
Idea from Buckeye Land
November 29th, 2012
8:54 am
The one advantage Georgia has is the Dome with so many teams the weather is a crap shoot. I can remember sitting in the snow watching semi final games in Ohio. I liked the dome semifinals the thrill of some 3rd string player actually get to play or at least warm up on one of the biggest stages of football in the country. Double the kids get that thrill than just playing the finals there. Two day event on GPTV another reason to take off work and enjoy high school football can’t get any better unless you have your team still playing.
@David Purdum a good conversation starter here but we all know GHSA moves very slowly! Neutral playing fields after the 1st round.
David Purdum
Smug
November 29th, 2012
9:11 am
Hey Buckeye guy, you ain’t in Ohio any more. Do you actually have a dog in this fight?
Blue Devil fan
November 29th, 2012
10:39 am
2 HOURS FROM NOW NORCROSS IS ON THERE WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BehindEnemyLines
November 29th, 2012
12:00 pm
Alas, the neutral site idea has been pretty much killed by all the complaints that playing in the Dome created. That seems to have been the largest part of why the Dome round was scaled back to the Finals instead of the two-day event previously held for the semi-finals.
As a north Georgian I can’t say that I’d be a fan of being forced to play in Macon or worse so I don’t suppose I can gripe too hard at the (primarily) south Georgia contingent that pushed to reduce the Dome games … although the fact that it’s the Dome rather than a lesser facility should have some weight in the conversation IMO.
The other factor weighing against neutral fields – particularly from the smaller classifications – is that attendance could be quite sparse. There’s already teams who see relatively small crowds for playoff games, adding to the expenses with facility rental and additional travel costs isn’t something that seems attractive.
Camden74
November 29th, 2012
12:39 pm
Release the CATS! It won’t be long……….
Blue devil fan
November 29th, 2012
12:53 pm
COUPLE OF CHARTER BUSES OF FANS, THE BAND BUS AND THE NORCROSS TEAM HAVE LEFT METRO ATL!!!!! CAMDEN HERE WE COME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rancher
November 29th, 2012
2:45 pm
The system for the playoffs works. Most people put in the actual situation of flipping a coin vs some hypothetical situation, gpa, region strenghth, how many points some unethical coach runs up against a startup team etc. Anything other than region standings and coin flips to break ties and you are assured someone will find a way to cheat or at least try. Only suggestions are the coin flips should all take place at a central location via teleconference and the GSHA should not get thier `12% off the top. It should at best come after the expenses have been paid just like the schools. good luck to all the remaining teams.
the truth
November 29th, 2012
4:08 pm
There is really no way to do this differently. The championship games have to be at a large venue. It is the premier event and it should be highlighted. I have been to many local championship games and trying to cram that many people into local school stadiums is just crazy. The fact is that both teams have earned their way into the finals and it would be wrong to reward one team over the other by allowing a home game. I am not saying the finals have to be at the Dome, but it has to have minimum seating of 40 thousand. People milling around after one game, watching one game, and arriving for the next game create a large crowd.
A lot of Texas having neutral playoff sites due to even longer travel times that GA, and they have more stadiums that can handle large crowds. A lot of the stadiums used are university stadiums and GA just does not have that many university stadiums to use.
The fact is that if you want a state champion, a good team is going to have to travel. A coin flip is the most equitable way. It is hard to base it on record because region strength is uneven. You could consider the record of two teams of the same seed against teams remaining in the playoffs. For example, Norcross is 3-0 against teams left in the playoffs, Camden is 0-1 so Norcross has better record and would host. In the case of all things being equal, go to the coin flip.
david kidd
November 29th, 2012
6:55 pm
fyi, the texas high school athletic association’s budget for football playoffs is bettered by only california and florida and many times more over than georgia. georgia cant come close to being able to pay for all the playoff games to be in a neutral site. texas has many venues as well wheather they be college or pro. georgia pretty much as 3; the dome tech and uga. so, that as they say is that. we south georgia folks have been driving to the dome for years for the finals so get over it norcross or any other yankee team who complains about the drive. why dont you just manup and bring 8-10 thousand fans like camden does for every away game. if you will check the dome history book you will find that camden has the record for attendance in that house. no team has the traveling fans like the camden bluecats!! travel safe norcross fans and lets play some ball!
Longhorn nation
November 29th, 2012
7:01 pm
Most teams have 65-85 players not 45 and the gate money is divided 3 ways GHSA and the 2 and just on a note Camden usual travels with 85 players
Longhorn nation
November 29th, 2012
7:03 pm
Camden 34- Northcross 14
the truth
November 29th, 2012
8:39 pm
david kidd..”why dont you just manup and bring 8-10 thousand fans like camden does for every away game” BULL!!! There are no high school stadiums in the state that could handle the home crowd plus the 10 thousand you think Camden brings to every road game. Camden has great support but don’t exaggerate.
the truth
November 29th, 2012
8:41 pm
By the way davis kidd, Camden can not hold the record for attendance in the Dome because it is impossible to breakdown attendance by each school.
lookwhostalkin
November 29th, 2012
9:59 pm
The Truth is – we can bring as many fans as we do and it will be more than you. That is the truth… Ask the other teams in region 1. Either Lowndes or Camden travel big. Most of the time we buy more tickets than most home teams when we are visitors. That is the truth…. now try and rebut that – I know the truth. We can’t prove it but neither can you. The truth???
PIERCE COUNTY FAN
November 29th, 2012
10:15 pm
COLQUITT SUPPORTER the visiting team gets 60% of the gate and home team 40%
easy solution
November 29th, 2012
10:45 pm
easy solution and make the playoffs fair at the sametime…no home field advantage. each game is played on a neutral field. why can’t georgians comprehend this? texas high school plays neutral fields at each level and they have over three times the number of schools in the playoffs…..and texas is just a LITTLE bit larger than georgia. but then texans are smarter than georgians.
for david kidd
November 29th, 2012
10:52 pm
david….you don’t know what you’re talking about. there is no, ‘texas high school athletic association’. the texas high school governing party is the UIL (university interscholastic league). the two schools playing the next round make their own arrangements….neutral field. texas doesn’t have any more money per capita for the playoffs; actually likely has less than georgia. they don’t do it more expensively, just smarter.
Camden74
November 30th, 2012
12:08 am
Most Urban Texas HS Teams (at least the ones around Houston) don’t have a “Home Stadium” the same as some of the teams in Georgia. A particular stadium might be used by multiple teams as home field. Take Alief for instance, Elsik, Hastings and Taylor all use the same stadium as home field. Westside HS has to use a stadium that’s not even the closest one to the school. Some of the well to do Suburbs have their own stadium, but most of the city schools don’t…….
Fred
November 30th, 2012
12:41 am
@PIERCE COUNTY FAN – No, at least for the playoffs per the GHSA constitution, the GHSA gets paid their 12% off the top, the visiting team gets $5.00 per mile one way travel money and the officials get paid. After that there is a 50/50 split with the home team having to cover all stadium expenses such as lights, security, cleaning, etc.
SGT CHRIS
November 30th, 2012
3:54 pm
David Kidd obviously hasnt traveled the ENTIRE state of georgia if he thinks all we have to offer are TECH, UGA, and the DOME. What about Paulson stadium in Statesboro, Carrollton’s stadium, McEachern, Valdosta State, and i would agree, Calhoun High has a very nice stadium for playoff football. Im quite sure there are some high school venues that could accomodate a playoff game.
I dont understand what the uproar about travel is. During the season, if you dont want to travel, dont schedule games that require travel. But playoff Brackets are made for a reason. Just like someone said, if you dont want to travel, take care of business and WIN YOUR GAMES, unless your opponent has also taken care of business. The coin toss is a simple, NONBIASED way to solve a problem. To get the ring you have to put the work in.
Home field advantage, why take away the chance for a small town to host a possible title game only to play on the “biggest stage?” Bigger isnt always necessarly BETTER. I would take a hometown title game over a game in the dome ANY DAY because at the end of the day, its for a ring. Who isnt going to show up? Even when we beat Colquitt in Moultrie, the proximity of the crowd to the field is something you NEVER get in the Dome. When we beat Valdosta at home, with a packed house, fans roped off at the back of the end zones standing room only, alumni in town for the big game standing on the sidelines, guys you went to games watching bust heads, thats what signifies georgia high school football to me.
Too much keeping up with the joneses in my opinion.