Milton coach miffed over Mann’s ejection; Georgia signee can’t play in semifinals for final
Carrollton – Milton star point guard Charles Mann can’t play in the Class AAAAA semifinals or finals for being ejected during Milton’s 80-58 victory over North Gwinnett on Saturday, and his coach, David Boyd, doesn’t agree with how officials handled either of the two technical fouls that effective ended Mann’s season.
Mann – a University of Georgia signee – and North Gwinnett freshman Kamaran Calhoun sparred for position during an inbound play in the first half, and a double-technical was assessed. The play appeared insignificant until the second half, when Mann got free for a dunk. He was called for taunting after scoring the basket that gave Milton a 42-35 lead with 6:14 left in the third quarter.
The second technical led to an automatic ejection and a two-game sit-out penalty, per Georgia High School Association rules.
”He didn’t point a finger, he didn’t jaw at him, he just looked at him,” Boyd said of the second technical. “I don’t understand. If you’re yelling at somebody, I get it, but [a technical for] looking at a player seems awfully harsh. It’s excessive. In the elite eight, that’s a tough call.”
The first technical didn’t sit well with Boyd, either.
”I thought the first call could’ve been simply a double foul,” Boyd said. “You foul. You foul. Ball on the side. Go from there.”
Milton is 26-4, but three of the losses were early-season forfeits that overturned victories when it was ruled the Mann, a transfer from Union Grove, had not yet moved legally into the Milton district. Not counting the forfeits, Milton is 25-0 with Mann in the lineup.
Milton is playing in its fourth straight final four. The North Fulton school was runner-up in 2009 and 2011 and champion in 2010.
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88 comments Add your comment
Yeeeeahboii
March 3rd, 2012
11:18 pm
Could be a little bit of karma for Milton…
Slinger
March 3rd, 2012
11:33 pm
My coach taught us to play with class, to win with class and to lose with class. Simple enough.
The Truth
March 4th, 2012
12:52 am
The bottom line is that Mann and Shaq have been jawing and taunting other players all year after they make nice plays, and they get away with it because Coach Boyd let’s them do it. He has no class as a coach. When Chris Bolden fouled out he held up five fingers and stared right at Bolden. What coach does that to a kid who just played a heck of a game. He is a terrible example for our kids. Love the talent that Milton has put together and they are fun to watch.
Joe
March 4th, 2012
1:06 am
The play should be reviewed and and no more than a one game suspension should be enforced. The referee who called the second technical looked like he was 14 years old.
Dawg
March 4th, 2012
1:21 am
Sounds like a win at all cost situation at Milton. Recruiting, Running up a score, deficient attitude and allowing players to have poor sportsmanship. I guess the old saying the players play as they are coached is appropriate.
Northfan
March 4th, 2012
1:34 am
The referees let the game get out of hand. The classless coach Boyd told his boy to come out and play dirty and refs allowed this to go on. Why would’nt the Milton boys feel empowered to play that way. Regardless, Milton played together as a team, unlike North team whose coach relies solely on one player Bolden to play against 4 D1 prospect. How can you have a big man on your team never use him. Come on man!
Ga BBALL Fan
March 4th, 2012
7:20 am
The funny thing is Boyd isnt a very good in game coach.
northmom
March 4th, 2012
7:40 am
Milton acted like a bunch of thugs. They pushed, pulled, and taunted the north players all night. they could easily rely on their talents, but choose to jaw instead. Their coach seemed to encourage that behavior. I’m proud of how classy the north boys responded.
Snowman
March 4th, 2012
8:03 am
Hopefully for some of you at the game realize BOTH teams were doing the pushing, pulling, and taunting. The refs should have taken control of the game in the first 30 seconds, but didn’t and let it get out of hand. If you were at the game, how could you not see Bolden taunting the Milton kids, #12 coming off the bench at a timeout and taunting the Milton kids. Did the Milton kids taunt, yes they did. But both teams did it the whole game. Bolden ran up to one of the Milton kids holding 3 fingers in his face after one of his amazing shots, but no call there and give a T to the Mann kid for just looking? Not a great way to excerise your control as an official. Both coaches should have said more to their own kids to stop the crap and just play.
Tigersball
March 4th, 2012
8:21 am
Boyd is an embarrassment to Milton and high school sports in general. Hid leadership (lack there of) is what is wrong with youth sports. He promotes and does a great job preparing his kids “thug” behavior attitude that they can carry on to college and that exactly why I no longer watch or follow college or pro basketball any longer.
just a guy
March 4th, 2012
9:01 am
I was at the game last night and thought it got out of hand early… the Milton players were only responding to the (usual) thug play of North Gwinnett… I have reffed at North Gwinnett 6 times this year and all levels and if you look at the scorers book you will see a distinct pattern (number of fouls). This agressive, bad boy behavior is promoted by the coaching staff…. and as for Coach Boyd… he is a gentleman and a scholar and …Oh Yeah… a Winner…. and he has the hardware from several different teams to prove it… Great Game coach
DevilFan
March 4th, 2012
9:16 am
Karma hurts doesn’t it Milton. What about 2 years ago when the ref called a foul with no time left on the clock at the Norcross game and allowed 2 free throw shots to be made with no time on the clock? You weren’t whining then. And what big man does North Gwinnett have? The one that’s 6′8 and can’t catch a pass or make a lay-up? I wouldn’t go to him either. There’s a reason why he isn’t committed to a college. Let’s go Alpharetta!
BBall Fan
March 4th, 2012
9:18 am
Great game on both sides. Someone had to win and someone had to lose.
Snowman
March 4th, 2012
9:50 am
Do you know Boyd? Have you ever talked to, or watched the kids he has coached? Have you ever gotten to know the kids he has coached? I can tell you from past experiences that he provides the discipline and leadership to all of his players. Have you ever heard of any of his players getting in trouble? Didn’t think so. He makes them “toe the line” so to say, makes them behave in school, get the grades, and puts them in great schools. You have no idea what this man does for his players. I wouldn’t be the first one to throw stones.
Joe
March 4th, 2012
10:19 am
Referee Alert!!
I will not mention his name although I really want to, however the referee who called the 2nd technical on Mann last night was from Gwinnett!!! He is from Lawrenceville,GA which is right below Suwanee, which is where North Gwinnett is located. On top of that, he is 25 years old. Why is he refereeing state tournament games? Obviously the GHSA didn’t tell him to make a call, but they are not supposed to allow referees to officiate games where there could be bias or affiliation with either team competing.
just a guy
March 4th, 2012
10:19 am
Thanks Snowman… you are absolutely right…. These negative comments are being made by people who don’t know Coach Boyd… He would and have never promoted poor behavior by his kids… on or off the court….His players and their parents respect the job he does with these kids…. just ask them…not just at Milton… go to Berkmar and talk to the parents and players who know him… they know… and while there admire the State Champion banners… You want to see a program that is failing to do the things it should…promote good sportsmanship, hard work and excellence …. just go NORTH…..
Ann
March 4th, 2012
1:57 pm
@ Snowman and @ Just a Guy – By any chance did you see the Milton/Roswell regular season game when Coach Boyd himself taunted the Roswell coach, later in the game? I have seen quite a few Milton games, along with other teams in the North Fulton/Cobb area and I do not have any alliance with any particular team, just enjoy watching good basketball. Usually Coach Boyd looks fairly reserved and professional during games, but at one point, in that game, after his players did a great play and dunk and his team was ahead by 25 points or so, Coach Boyd did something quite strange that is a little hard to describe. In response to the dunk, he immediately turned directly towards the Roswell coach and did a big leap, fist pumping, full body jig/dance type move, swinging both arms. It was certainly seemed like a “shove that” taunting towards the Roswell coach. I can only assume there must be some animosity between those coaches. We happened to be sitting a few rows behind the benches, in the middle of the two teams. The Roswell coach simply said “What was that???” I do not know if the referees saw it. It was taunting and it did not look professional.
My main complaint with watching Milton games is how boring they have become. Great games that you recall many years later are not the “blow outs”. They are the close score games or the “come from behind” victories. Check out the regular season scores for Milton this year. They beat nearly every opponent by 35-40 points or so, and one opponent by around 50 points and another team by 65 points. This takes away a lot of the fun and excitement for the crowd. Establishing a dream team (through whatever methods he uses) = boring games. Yes, there are a few great plays and fun dunks, but no suspense, which is a big part of the fun. I used to be a Milton fan, but, do I want to see a game where I absolutely know the outcome in advance? No. Do I want to watch a game where they win 76-11? No. I would much rather see two mediocre, evenly matched teams with a final score within 2-6 points. Every game I have seen this year has involved the same pattern – they play somewhat reserved in the first half. Towards the latter part of the 3rd period, they stretch their lead to a point the other team cannot catch, and then they “showboat” with more dunks, etc., in the 4th period.
Double U
March 4th, 2012
2:21 pm
Ann, if you are a fan of basketball would you rather have your favorite team lose? The goal in basketball is to win the game not keep it close and just squeak by every game. People DO remember region titles and state championships.
Ann
March 4th, 2012
2:44 pm
@ Double U – Yes, I would honestly prefer my favorite team to lose by 2 points than to win by 60. The game would simply be more exciting and fun to watch, even with the loss. It’s the experience of “watching” the game that I enjoy, not the win/loss record. It’s the enjoyment of the two hours of time spent, not some memory that my hometown team won this or that championship.
I attended Clemson University during the time they won the national football championship in the 1980’s. Was it fun to be a student that year when they won? Sure! Was it fun watching a game against Wake Forest, I think, when they won seventy something to twenty something. Not particularly. Yes, I remember the championship. But, I also remember, a few years later when the football program and Danny Ford was found guilty of NCAA rules violations that probably helped them win the championship earlier. Pretty much ruined all the pride and fun. I also happened to be at graduate school at Penn State when they won a football national championship in the 80’s. Fond memories and pride in that have been ruined by their ethics violations. Winning at these costs is not worth it for the players or fans.
I’m not suggesting that the goal should be to keep a game close. If two teams totally abide by the rules, and the game is lopsided, that’s fine. But “manufactured” lopsided games due to transfers or recruiting is cheating the fans of fun. Milton had to forfeit some games this year due to residency violations, so those of you who say everything is kosher, you are skirting around the truth. Now perhaps the coach doesn’t recruit and players just flock to him by their own choice. It still results in a team that is not compiled by the residents/players that grew up in the system/area, although there are a few of those on the team. Georgia rules should require a one year sit-out when transferring, as many other states do. That would keep things a bit more honest.
AAAAA
March 4th, 2012
3:00 pm
Wheeler is the only team since Tift to give Milton a run and they were knocked out in the 2nd round.
I’ve seen Boyd be classy, but I’ve also seen him on multiple occasions taunt opposing players and fans.
On a similar note, I feel no pity for Mann as I’ve seen multiple players in the state get ejected for the same thing this year and last year.
All in all the Mann loss is huge as Milton’s only loss was without him to Tift Co.
Watch out for Harrison they have the bigs to give Milton trouble. Milton is a great defensive team, but a fundamentally sound team that can consistently feed the post can work that all day against them.
On Defense, Stick Nolte and Patterson at all times and make Shaq and Glass beat you, that’s the key to success against them.
Hey Joe
March 4th, 2012
3:12 pm
Was he from Multi County?
Hey Joe
March 4th, 2012
3:20 pm
Joe also GHSA does have a conflict of interest clause but it has to do with you or family members working at or attending a school or you graduating from a school in the last 5 years. Just because you live near by doesn’t make it a conflict. To me it sounds like this official “wasn’t in to the game.” If you eject a kid in a big game like this with such consequences as a two game suspension, it needs to be obvious to anyone who sees why you ejected him. And yes officials know that an ejection leads to a 2 game official.
Referee
March 4th, 2012
3:33 pm
@just a guy. As a referee you should not speak openly about another team, player or coach. Your association should not approve of your thoughts being public, whether you are correct or not.
BBall Fan
March 4th, 2012
3:48 pm
Well, I have no dog in the fight. My team was eliminated two games ago. Now I do not advocate classless behavior by coaches or players, but the potential outcome of a season shloud not be determined by the REFS. If there was no punching, pushing, or fighting then regular fouls should have been called and the REFS should have just pulled both team captains to the side and gave a warning first. I know teams and schools want to win the championship, but how much does it really mean if you had to win due to a key player being out for something other than injury.
I’M JUST SAYING!!!!
007
March 4th, 2012
4:44 pm
” I would much rather see two mediocre, evenly matched teams with a final score within 2-6 points.” SERIOUSLY!
just a guy
March 4th, 2012
5:05 pm
@ Referee…. I quit this season after many years because of coaches, player and fans demonstrating utter disrespect for me, themselves and the game… I don’t care what my or any other association think about my comments… I’m over the whole politically correct thing… sometimes you need to call a spade….a spade……just saying…..
Milton fan
March 4th, 2012
6:05 pm
Was at the game, Boyd is right, first T Mann got was ticky-tack. Players on both sides did worse than what Mann did for the second T and never got T’d. Mann was dumb but ref was dumber. Now Milton will have to win without star guard. Won title 2 yrs ago when opponent star & GA Mr. Basketball twisted his ankle during intros for championship game, comes around goes around! They can do it, looked great after Mann was ejected. Nolte will have to shoot lights out again to do it though.
Kman
March 4th, 2012
7:39 pm
This is crazy……Kick this guy out for LOOKING at another player! I agree with the coach…..if he pointed his finger or said something…..then I could agree with the technical. The refs are supposed to be FAIR and IMPARTIAL,…not to mention…call what they SEE ..not make A call on what he or she THINKS. So what did he see? We grown-ups are the one`s to blame for this type of thing. Sports are SUPPOSED to be about the KIDS…..but it`s not ….it`s more for us……we`re just using the kids…..and WHY……because sports bring in the big dollars….and when money is involved…..we get stupid!
RayTheRef
March 4th, 2012
10:35 pm
The below quote from the article states…
Mann – a University of Georgia signee – and North Gwinnett freshman Kamaran Calhoun sparred for position during an inbound play in the first half, and a double-technical was assessed.
My questions are:
Was the ball LIVE? (during an inbound play) (throw-in)
Was the double-technical foul called because of CONTACT? (sparred for position) (sounds like it)
Of course, if the ball is LIVE and there is a CONTACT foul…it can’t be TECHNICAL.
I haven’t seen the video, but would like to, just out of curiosity. My concern is that the Double-Technical Foul was ruled, because of CONTACT. If that is the case…the official made an INACCURATE RULING. Because…if the ball is LIVE…and the two players PUNCH EACH OTHER… it is still NOT a TECHNICAL foul.
Ann
March 4th, 2012
11:22 pm
If Milton is the great team so many people say they are, they should be able to win without one player. If your team can’t come together and win without one specific player, then you don’t deserve the championship. Or, is their team not very deep, then?
Ann
March 4th, 2012
11:23 pm
And, maybe the game will be more competitive, more exciting, and “less boring” now.
urhighest
March 5th, 2012
4:30 am
HOYA NATION……WE BELIEVE WITH OR WITHOUT A MANN PLAYING….
THESE AINT NO RICH WHITE BOYS….THESE YUNG MEN R BALLERS…
TWO AWAY WINS VALDOSTA/JOHNSON-SAV….THEN M.L.K……HARRISON IS UNDERRATED………
The Good Ol Blog » Blog Archive » UVa Recruits Move On In Postseason
March 5th, 2012
6:35 am
[...] be without the services of senior point guard Charles Mann, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports. Mann is a University of Georgia [...]
sportsfan
March 5th, 2012
6:37 am
Pointing with your eyes is the same as your hand – but with more expression. This type of arrogant behavior will continue on at UGA and will read about him in a few years with more suspensions.
IKNOWS
March 5th, 2012
7:31 am
was the berkmar spanish teacher at the game?
brookcy
March 5th, 2012
8:26 am
Coach Boyd after his player’s first technical foul should have pulled that young man to the side and reminded him that any other technical fouls would have called for his ejection regardless of whether or not it was warranted. The tech’s were called and unless GHSA wants eggs on their face for overturning their ejection policy Mr. Mann is done for the season.
Sideline Dude
March 5th, 2012
9:02 am
Wahhhhhh! Where’s the crying towel?
Coach
March 5th, 2012
9:02 am
What goes around comes around! Karma truly is a bitch!
truth
March 5th, 2012
9:27 am
I see the officials in GA HS Sports still suck. Nothing has changed.
The BIG "O"
March 5th, 2012
11:30 am
IKNOWS & ramblwrk68
lol……..:-)))))))))))))))))
Buff the Ref With 25 years experience
March 5th, 2012
12:06 pm
Ray the Ref- what bush league are you calling. No technicals can be called during a live ball? You must be a rookie! Stick to calling rec ball Ray.
former coach
March 5th, 2012
3:44 pm
a public school player moving illegally from another public school and forfeits 3 games but gets to continue to play. Where is the backbone of the public schools to demand that milton has to play in a new division. so now we see it is all about punishing private schools because they are not be controlled by governement, union run agendas. thank you for pointing this all out. this sure was hush hush but we get the drift. phoney, hyprocrites
former coach
March 5th, 2012
3:46 pm
Milton may still be the best team that money can buy in HS. but no one will ever question them about that. phoneys
former coach
March 5th, 2012
3:49 pm
what a joke. that is what is wrong with officials in Ga. Ray you mean to tell me if someone throws an elbow while rebounding a shot and the elbow hits someone in the mouth, you cant call a techincal foul. keep up the good officiating
One Man's Opinion
March 5th, 2012
4:51 pm
I would like to see Boyd coach a team with only local talent. Over the last 4 years Milton has 2 key players who came up through the feeder team. Everyone else has transfeered in. Glass, Johnson, Mann…. on this years team.With that said i still think he is an incredible coach. His very TALENTED teams play defense and are disciplined. This does not come by accident.
Sam
March 5th, 2012
5:19 pm
Milton can win without Mann even if their bench sucks. Mann shouldn’t have gotten ejected but it doesn’t matter because Jalyn Patterson can run the point and go off…
Todd Holcomb
March 5th, 2012
5:37 pm
”would like to see Boyd coach a team with only local talent. Over the last 4 years Milton has 2 key players who came up through the feeder team. Everyone else has transfeered in.”
Milton is the most talented team in AAAAA, no doubt. Lots of coaches could win with the talent there. But give Boyd credit – He’s the only coach to win state titles in Georgia at four different schools. No other coach has won at more than two schools.
The Answer
March 5th, 2012
5:53 pm
Butt the Ref with 25 years expereince. RTR is correct, you obviously do not know the rules. no live ball foul can be called a technical due to contact. It can be personal, intentional, or flagrant, but it CAN NOT be technical.
The Answer
The Answer
March 5th, 2012
5:55 pm
former coach, you are cluelss 2! Ray the Ref is right! See my above comment. Maybe that is why it says FORMER Coach!
The Answer
Kaela
March 5th, 2012
9:43 pm
If anyone was acting like “thugs” it was the north boys. The Milton players responded like normal teenagers once they were taunted. The fact of the matter is that Charles simply LOOKED at him he didn’t say anything, he didn’t have a certain facial expression. It was just a look. He deserves to play in the next two games, it’s his senior year but to be honest Milton will still do well without him. They have an amazing team and work hard.
red47
March 5th, 2012
10:32 pm
Thanks Ray the Ref for you CORRECT comments!! It is good to know that someone actually does know the rules!!
Jay
March 5th, 2012
10:40 pm
HEY COACH BOYD,
Where did those 3 Marietta transfers live? I’d love to hear that one! Why were their parents always back in Marietta after a Milton home game? Hell, I sat and ate with Loyd’s parents at Applebee’s in Marietta right after a Milton home game. I know you’re reading this since you keep talking crap on your facebook about what people are writing. They all just happened to uproot and move into an expensive Milton district at the same time, I’m sure. Just like Glass, he leaves a Meadowcreek district and ends up moving into Milton, I’m sure. It’s not like Milton isn’t one of the most expensive districts in the state. Mann was already ruled ineligible because they just got a dang APT and didn’t sell their home yet to make it legit. You feel the need to talk crap and try to prove yourself all the time but all it does is make you look more guilty, if nothing went on you wouldn’t have to say anything. No one believes you.
Hubert Green
March 5th, 2012
10:47 pm
R the ref is correct; an elbow can be called flagrant and thus warrant an ejection, but not a technical. The double foul was called a double technical. That is an incorrect ruling and mann should be allowed to play.
William Casey
March 5th, 2012
11:28 pm
I guess that basketball has changed since I retired. In 20+ years of coaching, I NEVER had one of my players called for a technical foul. Truth be told, I got T’ed-up 4 or 5 times as a coach. Basketball is an emotional game. I don’t know Coach Boyd but have worked with one of his former assistants and know faculty at Milton. I find it difficult to believe that he promotes “thug behavior.”
the truth
March 5th, 2012
11:41 pm
Ray the ref is WRONG. If the ref sees play getting rough prior to the ball being inbound, he can whistle the play dead. When the ref blows the whistle to stop the action, THE PLAY IS NOW DEAD. Under NFHS rules for 2011-2012, the ball was not in player control but team control which opens up the ref to stop play and make the call at his or her discretion. Now the ref determines the reason for stopping action. He can stop the actions to talk to the players and tell them to cool it, call a foul, or in this case, call the technical on both players. Sorry Answer and Ray the ref, you are WRONG. Read up on the current rules. Tech one on MANN. NFHS rules clearly define taunting and punishment for taunting for 2011-2012 specifically using the words “actions interpreted as taunting and baiting” Nothing new here. Boyd should know the rules and the risk of interpretation by the officials and explain it to the kids Tech 2 on MANN. GSHA rules 2 techs and you are out and MANN is out. Boyd should tell MANN to act like he has been there since he is a senior and should know better and just play the game. Celebrations can come when the game is over. So now Boyd is one and one. Got the call against Norcross to help win the championship in 2010, now he loses a 4 year starter. Actually he is still in good shape. The call against Norcross cost them the championship, Milton will still probably win.
The Right Person To Know
March 6th, 2012
12:24 am
I guess most of the people that have written comments on here are from Gwinnett.
Well, I think that I might know someone who can talk to the right person, not saying any names, that can get those bad applel referees punnished. They surely misused their authority in making, not only one but TWO, false calls that lead to a substantial difference in the game. Regardless if the team that the refs opposed won or lost.
Referees should always hold a nuetral mindset when calling a game. That definitely was not the way that those refs were calling the game. And it seems to me that They were all in it together. It seems as it they preplanned to do exactly what they did in the game. Which was to ultimately eject one of the player from the other team.
Yup! A couple of calls need to be made and ALL of the referees shoud be repremanded and even fired. If no fault is found in them all together, then the refs that call the two excessive calls.
Don’t you think so too? :~)
Tim
March 6th, 2012
12:39 am
You can’t touch the ball after you make a basket. Because he slammed the ball into the ground and it rolled away, the ref called a delay of game. Good call by the ref, coach should know the rules.
fosterjoiner
March 6th, 2012
1:18 am
The refs have been bad all postseason. I was at a game during the region 5 tournament.that the refs called everything at one end and allowed a physical beating at the other end without any calls. I told a friend next to me that I knew trouble was coming if the refs did not call a foul on the other team for the pushing and holding. The pushing was never called and it led to a fight which was basicly caused by the refs. The winning team had to play the final 2 games at the region tournament without 2 starters. They went on to win the region inspite of the refs caused fight.The refs have been bad this entire postseason..As for the technicals in this game get a life David Boyd. IF you delay the punishment until later when do you punish a senior. He is graduating so he will not be back until next year.
mr james
March 6th, 2012
2:30 am
Im from the west coast so dont know either school so i cant really comment on the kids but the ref that called the finall tech had his own motives you can see the anger and the emotion in his face when he made that bogus call i only saw the last call made on number 5 at the yahoo site and not the entire game if they as in both teams had a lot of ruff play the refs should have called there own time out and stated to both teams and coaches cool it or we will start kicking guys out of the game and i saw some one state that the ref who looks like he only 20 yrs old is from the same area the school that was taking the beating is from i find a bit of a problem there all so but last and not least you have a adult who is suppose to be nuetral taking his anger out on a minor child in a game the final game at his hgh school with his team and family there watching him for the last time there should be a investigation and that ref should be suspended you dont do that to a kid
Debra
March 6th, 2012
8:40 am
Seem like a law suit to me..Now I bet Ref’s will be more consistent in there calls.
The Nerd
March 6th, 2012
8:44 am
Caucasian ref, African-American player. Bad comination.
William Casey
March 6th, 2012
9:10 am
Once I had aquired a little experience as a coach, I always counseled my players that “the rules are whatever the referees say they are” and players must adapt to them. Part of the game. Referees are not robots. That being said, the GHSA should make sure that high profiles games such as Milton vs. N. Gwinnet are worked by very experienced refs.
The Answer
March 6th, 2012
9:12 am
The Truth where the heck do you referee at what level? Once the ball is handed to the player throwing the ball in the BAll is Live and only a noncontact techincal can be called. If it is before the ball is handed to the player throwing the ball in then the ball is dead and it is a technical. I think you need to brush up on your rules…
The Answer is Always right!
tony
March 6th, 2012
9:24 am
Sounds like a protest is needed..He clearly didn’t deserve that technical foul. He handled that situation with a lot of CLASS. He could have showed out…You all know the call was wrong!
Protest…Surely with the footage anyone can see it was a bad call and the ref wasn’t even in a position to see the guys face to see where he was looking. And so what if he looked at the other player. It was a great play!
tony
March 6th, 2012
9:31 am
You Georgia folks are WILD…Ray needs to be fired for that call and everyone including him knows it was wrong.
JetMetFan
March 6th, 2012
9:40 am
Answer – Thanks for clarifying the rule situation, esp. for Buff and Truth
Ray – What we don’t know from the descriptions I’ve seen is whether the contact prior to the first technical took place before or after the ball was placed at the thrower’s disposal for the throw-in. If it took place before then the official was correct in handing out Ts since the ball was dead. If it was after then the official made a mistake.
Yarby
March 6th, 2012
9:43 am
Its amazing that a “REF” can make a terrible mistake, if you can call it that??? and there is no punishment for doing so, but a player and a whole town and team must suffer becuase of what the “Ref” thinks. I believe the better word would be what he feels. I am over seventy years old and have seen a lot of people in the south who uses their positions to change the outcome of a situation without being called ( ) but Its great that all of you are staying away from the ovious reason he made that call. He waited all night to find a call that he could make that would not be so ovious.
Rob
March 6th, 2012
10:34 am
this is crap everything is getting so sensitive you can’t even look with out getting a technical foul
RayTheRef
March 6th, 2012
11:52 am
Buff The Ref…Do you feel your 25 years of “service” gives you the “right” or “privilege” to be rude and obnoxious? What’s up with the attitude? However…the “bush leagues” that I have officiated are: NCAA DI MEN for 20 years, the Olympics in Atlanta in 1996, American Basketball Association and the list continues. Your statement regarding the “real topic” in this discussion is absolutely WRONG. Surely sometime in your 25 years you have called a technical foul on the coach for his/her comments while the ball was LIVE. Perhaps you need to re-read my last post, because there is nothing inaccurate there. Let me state it again: If the ball is LIVE…and a CONTACT foul is called…that foul CANNOT be a TECHNICAL foul. If the ball is DEAD…ALL fouls…CONTACT OR NON-CONTACT FOULS…will be TECHNICALS. There is an exception to this rule: Before airborne shooter A1 returns to the floor…the ball passes through the basket (ball is DEAD)…then A1 commits a Player Control Foul…this CONTACT occurs during a DEAD ball, but the foul is a PERSONAL foul. This is the only time a PERSONAL foul can occur while the ball is DEAD. Hope this helps.
don edwards
March 6th, 2012
11:53 am
my personal opinion ,ref just wanted to show how intelligent he obviously is . brainless !!! road runner middletown,oh bn many great teams n players incl jerry lucus n 76 wins in a row . outta here
Lois
March 6th, 2012
12:10 pm
That ref needs to be taken out of the game permanently!
RTR Fan
March 6th, 2012
12:13 pm
This is what happens when you are mandated to be politically correct by the GHSA when assigning crews. Every crew that works the “Post Season” must have a racially balanced crew. That means you must have at least one black official and at least one white official. That sound great on the surface but what it does is limit your choices for “QUALIFIED” officials. Wouldn’t it be better to have the BEST officials on the floor working important games instead of officials making a quota because you’re white and the crew needs that? BTW..RTR is correct as always. If you think you know the rules pay your $60 and attend the 5 star basketball officials Course and you’ll see just how dumb you really are when it comes to applying the rules. There are only 10 rules in basketball and not one coach in the state knows them all like the worst official. It’s amazing to hear fans in the stands yelling out for us to make calls by the rules they don’t know.
PEACE !!
coach
March 6th, 2012
12:55 pm
Forget Boyd, Milton, and all the rest. of course they cheat, why would people just make up things. They cheat legally if you want to say. The GHSA rules are so simple and they are full of holes. Really dont care how many championship he has won or played in. Point blank the rules need to be changed!!! Why wouldn’t the AJC respond to these allegations. I guess we dont have real reporters anymore. If you did anything to Belcher’s kids then he will shut you down. First of all many coaches that cheat are well known in Ga and too many people are scared to report them.
Home.cooking
March 6th, 2012
1:08 pm
I don’t think any sensible person has any issue with a family moving to a specific school district for a course, team, or activitiy. It’s their choice. However, the issue is when they enroll the kid into a school and don’t move. That is the problem and that is what people believe is happening at Milton.
Down South
March 6th, 2012
1:09 pm
Ray the ref, you could not ref’d when yoy ref’d. Wrote a book on refereeing and most of it wrong. Cherokee Assoc deserves you. What a tribute to refereeing in Georgia, you are. To hrow a crew under the bus, what class. Atlanta Area and Peach State were smart enought to show you the door and Cherokee got blind sided. What a piece of __ _ _ _ !
Kevin
March 6th, 2012
1:41 pm
I was doing a Varsity Soccer game, and I never let those get out of hand. Might “let” a u10 game get somewhat out of control. Oh, and I’ve given yellow cards to players this age, the equivalent to your first “T” in basketball. The QUICKEST I’ve called a foul at the Varsity level: I’d say about 5 seconds, maybe quicker. It was akin to the opening tip and one of the players came into the circle and tripped an opponent. But it did let those guys know that they had to play with talent.
Now, technically, us referees are supposed to red card for foul and abusive language. Do you know how many reds would be throw in a game for that? Maximum of 9, since at that point the 9th red would result in 6 players for that team, and you can play with a minimum of 7. As a former player, I’ve learned a quick talking to is better, especially if you empathize with the player – “Hey, I know you’re mad at yourself that you flubbed that kick, but let’s watch our language” – goes a long way.
Now I also do basketball, and this call to me is borderline. Running backwards and away from the ball? Who or what is he looking at? I’d much rather see the first technical.
Hugo
March 6th, 2012
1:53 pm
What kind of fan is Ann? I sure she is not projecting that kind of attitude.!!!!!!!
WhatsTheWord?
March 6th, 2012
2:44 pm
CourtCred.com will be on Blogtalkradio.com tonight at 9:00PM EST to preview the Final Fours of the GHSA State Basketball Tournaments. You can use the link below to listen. Call in and let us know your thoughts and predictions.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/cpstylin/2012/03/07/just-basketball
brookcy
March 6th, 2012
2:59 pm
The play is now on Yahoo sports and I think the offial over reacted.
TexasRef
March 6th, 2012
3:25 pm
Buff the Ref: Thanks for the 25 years of confirmed ignorance. Ray is spot on in stating that you cannot have a LIVE BALL CONTACT Technical Foul. Dead Ball…Yes!…Live Ball unsporting non-contact…Yes!… Live Ball Contact…NO! So…question is did the thrower have the ball when the ref called the first double foul? If he did, the foul should’ve been common double or possibly double intentional…if not handed the ball yet, then Technical variety would be appropriate.
AnotherRef
March 6th, 2012
6:11 pm
I’d really like to see that double technical foul. Contact during a dead ball is not automatically a technical foul. The rule (10-3-7 and 4-19-1 Note for those who want to look it up) requires the contact to be intentional or flagrant to be deemed a technical foul. Indeed the rule specifically says that contact during a dead ball is to be ignored unless it is intentional or flagrant. If two players are pushing each other before the ball is made live for a throw-in, it should NOT be ruled a technical foul. The terms “intentional” and “flagrant” are clearly defined. Two players pushing each other (trying to get position) before the ball is made live is not intentional. Now…if the double technical was for trash talking or something similar, then that is correct. Anyone have a video of that play?
Down South
March 6th, 2012
8:17 pm
Joe, get your facts straight. M lives in Loganville and Lawrenceville. Second, he is in his forties and he is a way from 25. He could care less who wins or loses.
DW
March 7th, 2012
12:06 pm
A resource to consider for all parents and coaches involved in youth or high school basketball. The book: “BasketCases: How Youth Basketball Parents Can Lower Their Blood Pressure and Keep Their Sanity.” (www.basketcasesbook.com). Great book. I should know. I wrote it.
The Right Person To Know
March 7th, 2012
7:10 pm
I say, “just fire the guy”. His facial expressions told what was on his mind. He basically told on himself… GET RID OF THAT COACH. That’s the only solution to it all!
Football Mom
March 7th, 2012
9:06 pm
Come on people!!! Those kids played hard and aggressive and that second tech was so out of line!!! The Milton kids are just GREAT players…..period and HEY, you can’t take that away from them! They would have won that game no matter what and they will win the state championship…just watch!!! Best to Evan Nolte and Crew….win it all!!!!
madison
March 8th, 2012
5:13 pm
Karma for what exactly? Taking talented kids and puttibg them in a place where not only will they get better chances for their future but also put them at a much better school academically? These kids get chances they could never have had thanks to coach boyd. Youre an idiot.
OHCOMEON
March 8th, 2012
7:23 pm
Love all the “Milton is illegal” and Boyd-bashing talk here. Here’s what people always seem to forget or never knew in the first place: David Boyd was having success back in the early 1980s before the whole “recruiting” thing ever became suspect. A state title in ‘82 and a final No. 3 ranking in ‘84 despite losing in the quarterfinals (thus leap-frogging the two semifinals losers). And guess what: He was doing it with kids whose houses I used to go to those kids lived in all their lives.
Kids transfer because he was a consistent winner and well connected to college coaches long before anyone ever suspected “recruitment.” So what is he supposed to do …. tell a kid to go away? Conduct nightly checks of each player and where they’re laying their heads? With as much attention as that program garners, they get away with NOTHING, as evidenced by the forfeit of three games early this season.
Besides, if he is “recruiting,” what exactly is he offering as bait? Greater opportunities for scholarships? Playing in a winning program? Newsflash: Kids discover those open doors on their own. He puts kids on the floor who are within the rules to be there, however that compliance takes place. And the obligation is to follow the rules, not follow them in a certain way.
NorthGAfan
March 9th, 2012
8:07 am
Sad to see this happen to a kid. The technical fouls should be given to Boyd. He is a sorry excuse for a coach. I’ve never seen a coach other than Boyd clap when players get fouled out and jump up and down when they walk off the court and look at the other coaches and girate and pump his fist and laugh and smile. THAT is disrespectful and un-called for. No wonder his players act the way they do on the court. Monkey see monkey do.