Milton coach miffed over Mann’s ejection; Georgia signee can’t play in semifinals for final
Carrollton – Milton star point guard Charles Mann can’t play in the Class AAAAA semifinals or finals for being ejected during Milton’s 80-58 victory over North Gwinnett on Saturday, and his coach, David Boyd, doesn’t agree with how officials handled either of the two technical fouls that effective ended Mann’s season.
Mann – a University of Georgia signee – and North Gwinnett freshman Kamaran Calhoun sparred for position during an inbound play in the first half, and a double-technical was assessed. The play appeared insignificant until the second half, when Mann got free for a dunk. He was called for taunting after scoring the basket that gave Milton a 42-35 lead with 6:14 left in the third quarter.
The second technical led to an automatic ejection and a two-game sit-out penalty, per Georgia High School Association rules.
”He didn’t point a finger, he didn’t jaw at him, he just looked at him,” Boyd said of the second technical. “I don’t understand. If you’re yelling at somebody, I get it, but [a technical for] looking at a player seems awfully harsh. It’s excessive. In the elite eight, that’s a tough call.”
The first technical didn’t sit well with Boyd, either.
”I thought the first call could’ve been simply a double foul,” Boyd said. “You foul. You foul. Ball on the side. Go from there.”
Milton is 26-4, but three of the losses were early-season forfeits that overturned victories when it was ruled the Mann, a transfer from Union Grove, had not yet moved legally into the Milton district. Not counting the forfeits, Milton is 25-0 with Mann in the lineup.
Milton is playing in its fourth straight final four. The North Fulton school was runner-up in 2009 and 2011 and champion in 2010.
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88 comments Add your comment
red47
March 5th, 2012
10:32 pm
Thanks Ray the Ref for you CORRECT comments!! It is good to know that someone actually does know the rules!!
Jay
March 5th, 2012
10:40 pm
HEY COACH BOYD,
Where did those 3 Marietta transfers live? I’d love to hear that one! Why were their parents always back in Marietta after a Milton home game? Hell, I sat and ate with Loyd’s parents at Applebee’s in Marietta right after a Milton home game. I know you’re reading this since you keep talking crap on your facebook about what people are writing. They all just happened to uproot and move into an expensive Milton district at the same time, I’m sure. Just like Glass, he leaves a Meadowcreek district and ends up moving into Milton, I’m sure. It’s not like Milton isn’t one of the most expensive districts in the state. Mann was already ruled ineligible because they just got a dang APT and didn’t sell their home yet to make it legit. You feel the need to talk crap and try to prove yourself all the time but all it does is make you look more guilty, if nothing went on you wouldn’t have to say anything. No one believes you.
Hubert Green
March 5th, 2012
10:47 pm
R the ref is correct; an elbow can be called flagrant and thus warrant an ejection, but not a technical. The double foul was called a double technical. That is an incorrect ruling and mann should be allowed to play.
William Casey
March 5th, 2012
11:28 pm
I guess that basketball has changed since I retired. In 20+ years of coaching, I NEVER had one of my players called for a technical foul. Truth be told, I got T’ed-up 4 or 5 times as a coach. Basketball is an emotional game. I don’t know Coach Boyd but have worked with one of his former assistants and know faculty at Milton. I find it difficult to believe that he promotes “thug behavior.”
the truth
March 5th, 2012
11:41 pm
Ray the ref is WRONG. If the ref sees play getting rough prior to the ball being inbound, he can whistle the play dead. When the ref blows the whistle to stop the action, THE PLAY IS NOW DEAD. Under NFHS rules for 2011-2012, the ball was not in player control but team control which opens up the ref to stop play and make the call at his or her discretion. Now the ref determines the reason for stopping action. He can stop the actions to talk to the players and tell them to cool it, call a foul, or in this case, call the technical on both players. Sorry Answer and Ray the ref, you are WRONG. Read up on the current rules. Tech one on MANN. NFHS rules clearly define taunting and punishment for taunting for 2011-2012 specifically using the words “actions interpreted as taunting and baiting” Nothing new here. Boyd should know the rules and the risk of interpretation by the officials and explain it to the kids Tech 2 on MANN. GSHA rules 2 techs and you are out and MANN is out. Boyd should tell MANN to act like he has been there since he is a senior and should know better and just play the game. Celebrations can come when the game is over. So now Boyd is one and one. Got the call against Norcross to help win the championship in 2010, now he loses a 4 year starter. Actually he is still in good shape. The call against Norcross cost them the championship, Milton will still probably win.
The Right Person To Know
March 6th, 2012
12:24 am
I guess most of the people that have written comments on here are from Gwinnett.
Well, I think that I might know someone who can talk to the right person, not saying any names, that can get those bad applel referees punnished. They surely misused their authority in making, not only one but TWO, false calls that lead to a substantial difference in the game. Regardless if the team that the refs opposed won or lost.
Referees should always hold a nuetral mindset when calling a game. That definitely was not the way that those refs were calling the game. And it seems to me that They were all in it together. It seems as it they preplanned to do exactly what they did in the game. Which was to ultimately eject one of the player from the other team.
Yup! A couple of calls need to be made and ALL of the referees shoud be repremanded and even fired. If no fault is found in them all together, then the refs that call the two excessive calls.
Don’t you think so too? :~)
Tim
March 6th, 2012
12:39 am
You can’t touch the ball after you make a basket. Because he slammed the ball into the ground and it rolled away, the ref called a delay of game. Good call by the ref, coach should know the rules.
fosterjoiner
March 6th, 2012
1:18 am
The refs have been bad all postseason. I was at a game during the region 5 tournament.that the refs called everything at one end and allowed a physical beating at the other end without any calls. I told a friend next to me that I knew trouble was coming if the refs did not call a foul on the other team for the pushing and holding. The pushing was never called and it led to a fight which was basicly caused by the refs. The winning team had to play the final 2 games at the region tournament without 2 starters. They went on to win the region inspite of the refs caused fight.The refs have been bad this entire postseason..As for the technicals in this game get a life David Boyd. IF you delay the punishment until later when do you punish a senior. He is graduating so he will not be back until next year.
mr james
March 6th, 2012
2:30 am
Im from the west coast so dont know either school so i cant really comment on the kids but the ref that called the finall tech had his own motives you can see the anger and the emotion in his face when he made that bogus call i only saw the last call made on number 5 at the yahoo site and not the entire game if they as in both teams had a lot of ruff play the refs should have called there own time out and stated to both teams and coaches cool it or we will start kicking guys out of the game and i saw some one state that the ref who looks like he only 20 yrs old is from the same area the school that was taking the beating is from i find a bit of a problem there all so but last and not least you have a adult who is suppose to be nuetral taking his anger out on a minor child in a game the final game at his hgh school with his team and family there watching him for the last time there should be a investigation and that ref should be suspended you dont do that to a kid
Debra
March 6th, 2012
8:40 am
Seem like a law suit to me..Now I bet Ref’s will be more consistent in there calls.
The Nerd
March 6th, 2012
8:44 am
Caucasian ref, African-American player. Bad comination.
William Casey
March 6th, 2012
9:10 am
Once I had aquired a little experience as a coach, I always counseled my players that “the rules are whatever the referees say they are” and players must adapt to them. Part of the game. Referees are not robots. That being said, the GHSA should make sure that high profiles games such as Milton vs. N. Gwinnet are worked by very experienced refs.
The Answer
March 6th, 2012
9:12 am
The Truth where the heck do you referee at what level? Once the ball is handed to the player throwing the ball in the BAll is Live and only a noncontact techincal can be called. If it is before the ball is handed to the player throwing the ball in then the ball is dead and it is a technical. I think you need to brush up on your rules…
The Answer is Always right!
tony
March 6th, 2012
9:24 am
Sounds like a protest is needed..He clearly didn’t deserve that technical foul. He handled that situation with a lot of CLASS. He could have showed out…You all know the call was wrong!
Protest…Surely with the footage anyone can see it was a bad call and the ref wasn’t even in a position to see the guys face to see where he was looking. And so what if he looked at the other player. It was a great play!
tony
March 6th, 2012
9:31 am
You Georgia folks are WILD…Ray needs to be fired for that call and everyone including him knows it was wrong.
JetMetFan
March 6th, 2012
9:40 am
Answer – Thanks for clarifying the rule situation, esp. for Buff and Truth
Ray – What we don’t know from the descriptions I’ve seen is whether the contact prior to the first technical took place before or after the ball was placed at the thrower’s disposal for the throw-in. If it took place before then the official was correct in handing out Ts since the ball was dead. If it was after then the official made a mistake.
Yarby
March 6th, 2012
9:43 am
Its amazing that a “REF” can make a terrible mistake, if you can call it that??? and there is no punishment for doing so, but a player and a whole town and team must suffer becuase of what the “Ref” thinks. I believe the better word would be what he feels. I am over seventy years old and have seen a lot of people in the south who uses their positions to change the outcome of a situation without being called ( ) but Its great that all of you are staying away from the ovious reason he made that call. He waited all night to find a call that he could make that would not be so ovious.
Rob
March 6th, 2012
10:34 am
this is crap everything is getting so sensitive you can’t even look with out getting a technical foul
RayTheRef
March 6th, 2012
11:52 am
Buff The Ref…Do you feel your 25 years of “service” gives you the “right” or “privilege” to be rude and obnoxious? What’s up with the attitude? However…the “bush leagues” that I have officiated are: NCAA DI MEN for 20 years, the Olympics in Atlanta in 1996, American Basketball Association and the list continues. Your statement regarding the “real topic” in this discussion is absolutely WRONG. Surely sometime in your 25 years you have called a technical foul on the coach for his/her comments while the ball was LIVE. Perhaps you need to re-read my last post, because there is nothing inaccurate there. Let me state it again: If the ball is LIVE…and a CONTACT foul is called…that foul CANNOT be a TECHNICAL foul. If the ball is DEAD…ALL fouls…CONTACT OR NON-CONTACT FOULS…will be TECHNICALS. There is an exception to this rule: Before airborne shooter A1 returns to the floor…the ball passes through the basket (ball is DEAD)…then A1 commits a Player Control Foul…this CONTACT occurs during a DEAD ball, but the foul is a PERSONAL foul. This is the only time a PERSONAL foul can occur while the ball is DEAD. Hope this helps.
don edwards
March 6th, 2012
11:53 am
my personal opinion ,ref just wanted to show how intelligent he obviously is . brainless !!! road runner middletown,oh bn many great teams n players incl jerry lucus n 76 wins in a row . outta here
Lois
March 6th, 2012
12:10 pm
That ref needs to be taken out of the game permanently!
RTR Fan
March 6th, 2012
12:13 pm
This is what happens when you are mandated to be politically correct by the GHSA when assigning crews. Every crew that works the “Post Season” must have a racially balanced crew. That means you must have at least one black official and at least one white official. That sound great on the surface but what it does is limit your choices for “QUALIFIED” officials. Wouldn’t it be better to have the BEST officials on the floor working important games instead of officials making a quota because you’re white and the crew needs that? BTW..RTR is correct as always. If you think you know the rules pay your $60 and attend the 5 star basketball officials Course and you’ll see just how dumb you really are when it comes to applying the rules. There are only 10 rules in basketball and not one coach in the state knows them all like the worst official. It’s amazing to hear fans in the stands yelling out for us to make calls by the rules they don’t know.
PEACE !!
coach
March 6th, 2012
12:55 pm
Forget Boyd, Milton, and all the rest. of course they cheat, why would people just make up things. They cheat legally if you want to say. The GHSA rules are so simple and they are full of holes. Really dont care how many championship he has won or played in. Point blank the rules need to be changed!!! Why wouldn’t the AJC respond to these allegations. I guess we dont have real reporters anymore. If you did anything to Belcher’s kids then he will shut you down. First of all many coaches that cheat are well known in Ga and too many people are scared to report them.
Home.cooking
March 6th, 2012
1:08 pm
I don’t think any sensible person has any issue with a family moving to a specific school district for a course, team, or activitiy. It’s their choice. However, the issue is when they enroll the kid into a school and don’t move. That is the problem and that is what people believe is happening at Milton.
Down South
March 6th, 2012
1:09 pm
Ray the ref, you could not ref’d when yoy ref’d. Wrote a book on refereeing and most of it wrong. Cherokee Assoc deserves you. What a tribute to refereeing in Georgia, you are. To hrow a crew under the bus, what class. Atlanta Area and Peach State were smart enought to show you the door and Cherokee got blind sided. What a piece of __ _ _ _ !
Kevin
March 6th, 2012
1:41 pm
I was doing a Varsity Soccer game, and I never let those get out of hand. Might “let” a u10 game get somewhat out of control. Oh, and I’ve given yellow cards to players this age, the equivalent to your first “T” in basketball. The QUICKEST I’ve called a foul at the Varsity level: I’d say about 5 seconds, maybe quicker. It was akin to the opening tip and one of the players came into the circle and tripped an opponent. But it did let those guys know that they had to play with talent.
Now, technically, us referees are supposed to red card for foul and abusive language. Do you know how many reds would be throw in a game for that? Maximum of 9, since at that point the 9th red would result in 6 players for that team, and you can play with a minimum of 7. As a former player, I’ve learned a quick talking to is better, especially if you empathize with the player – “Hey, I know you’re mad at yourself that you flubbed that kick, but let’s watch our language” – goes a long way.
Now I also do basketball, and this call to me is borderline. Running backwards and away from the ball? Who or what is he looking at? I’d much rather see the first technical.
Hugo
March 6th, 2012
1:53 pm
What kind of fan is Ann? I sure she is not projecting that kind of attitude.!!!!!!!
WhatsTheWord?
March 6th, 2012
2:44 pm
CourtCred.com will be on Blogtalkradio.com tonight at 9:00PM EST to preview the Final Fours of the GHSA State Basketball Tournaments. You can use the link below to listen. Call in and let us know your thoughts and predictions.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/cpstylin/2012/03/07/just-basketball
brookcy
March 6th, 2012
2:59 pm
The play is now on Yahoo sports and I think the offial over reacted.
TexasRef
March 6th, 2012
3:25 pm
Buff the Ref: Thanks for the 25 years of confirmed ignorance. Ray is spot on in stating that you cannot have a LIVE BALL CONTACT Technical Foul. Dead Ball…Yes!…Live Ball unsporting non-contact…Yes!… Live Ball Contact…NO! So…question is did the thrower have the ball when the ref called the first double foul? If he did, the foul should’ve been common double or possibly double intentional…if not handed the ball yet, then Technical variety would be appropriate.
AnotherRef
March 6th, 2012
6:11 pm
I’d really like to see that double technical foul. Contact during a dead ball is not automatically a technical foul. The rule (10-3-7 and 4-19-1 Note for those who want to look it up) requires the contact to be intentional or flagrant to be deemed a technical foul. Indeed the rule specifically says that contact during a dead ball is to be ignored unless it is intentional or flagrant. If two players are pushing each other before the ball is made live for a throw-in, it should NOT be ruled a technical foul. The terms “intentional” and “flagrant” are clearly defined. Two players pushing each other (trying to get position) before the ball is made live is not intentional. Now…if the double technical was for trash talking or something similar, then that is correct. Anyone have a video of that play?
Down South
March 6th, 2012
8:17 pm
Joe, get your facts straight. M lives in Loganville and Lawrenceville. Second, he is in his forties and he is a way from 25. He could care less who wins or loses.
DW
March 7th, 2012
12:06 pm
A resource to consider for all parents and coaches involved in youth or high school basketball. The book: “BasketCases: How Youth Basketball Parents Can Lower Their Blood Pressure and Keep Their Sanity.” (www.basketcasesbook.com). Great book. I should know. I wrote it.
The Right Person To Know
March 7th, 2012
7:10 pm
I say, “just fire the guy”. His facial expressions told what was on his mind. He basically told on himself… GET RID OF THAT COACH. That’s the only solution to it all!
Football Mom
March 7th, 2012
9:06 pm
Come on people!!! Those kids played hard and aggressive and that second tech was so out of line!!! The Milton kids are just GREAT players…..period and HEY, you can’t take that away from them! They would have won that game no matter what and they will win the state championship…just watch!!! Best to Evan Nolte and Crew….win it all!!!!
madison
March 8th, 2012
5:13 pm
Karma for what exactly? Taking talented kids and puttibg them in a place where not only will they get better chances for their future but also put them at a much better school academically? These kids get chances they could never have had thanks to coach boyd. Youre an idiot.
OHCOMEON
March 8th, 2012
7:23 pm
Love all the “Milton is illegal” and Boyd-bashing talk here. Here’s what people always seem to forget or never knew in the first place: David Boyd was having success back in the early 1980s before the whole “recruiting” thing ever became suspect. A state title in ‘82 and a final No. 3 ranking in ‘84 despite losing in the quarterfinals (thus leap-frogging the two semifinals losers). And guess what: He was doing it with kids whose houses I used to go to those kids lived in all their lives.
Kids transfer because he was a consistent winner and well connected to college coaches long before anyone ever suspected “recruitment.” So what is he supposed to do …. tell a kid to go away? Conduct nightly checks of each player and where they’re laying their heads? With as much attention as that program garners, they get away with NOTHING, as evidenced by the forfeit of three games early this season.
Besides, if he is “recruiting,” what exactly is he offering as bait? Greater opportunities for scholarships? Playing in a winning program? Newsflash: Kids discover those open doors on their own. He puts kids on the floor who are within the rules to be there, however that compliance takes place. And the obligation is to follow the rules, not follow them in a certain way.
NorthGAfan
March 9th, 2012
8:07 am
Sad to see this happen to a kid. The technical fouls should be given to Boyd. He is a sorry excuse for a coach. I’ve never seen a coach other than Boyd clap when players get fouled out and jump up and down when they walk off the court and look at the other coaches and girate and pump his fist and laugh and smile. THAT is disrespectful and un-called for. No wonder his players act the way they do on the court. Monkey see monkey do.