GHSA votes to separate Class A public, private schools for playoffs and championships
By S. Thomas Coleman
For the AJC
MACON — The landscape of high school athletics in Georgia took an unprecedented turn on Tuesday when the executive committee of the Georgia High School Association voted overwhelmingly to hold separate public and private school playoffs and championships in all Class A sports, beginning this fall.
The resolution, which was introduced by Charlton County athletic director Jesse Crews, passed by a vote of 37-12, with one abstention. The result will be two, 16-team tournaments – one for public schools and one for private schools — that should keep more than 30 of Georgia’s smaller high schools from leaving the GHSA and forming their own sports league. Representatives from those schools believed there has been a competitive imbalance between public and private schools at the Class A level because of private schools’ ability to accept any student without geographic restriction.
The GHSA’s recently approved region assignments will remain in place because they had been approved prior to Tuesday’s vote, which means public and private schools will continue to compete against each other during the regular season.
GHSA officials said they will meet with various members in upcoming months to best figure out how to seed the 16-team brackets. Ralph Swearngin, executive director of the GHSA, said the process will be developed by the schools that are directly impacted by the vote, with a March timeline. It is unclear whether the public and private Class A champions will play a plus-one game when the five other classifications play for titles at the Georgia Dome in December.
“I think we have enough good minds [within the GHSA] to figure it out,” Swearngin said.
Tuesday’s vote apparently ends the movement to create the Georgia Public Schools Association. That group, which was attracting interest from more than 40 small, mostly rural, schools, held its last meeting on Monday. More than 83 representatives in the room were asked to cast ballots by Jan. 24 on what their schools planned to do in response to whatever the GHSA voted to do on Tuesday. The choices were commit to pull out of the GHSA and join the GPSA, stay in the GHSA or remain undecided.
Wilcox County principal Chad Davis, a leader in the movement, was prepared to vote for seceding from the GHSA. He seemed relieved that his school will not have to.
“I don’t think that there is the need for [the GPSA] now,” Davis said. “That’s my personal opinion, but we’re going to check with other schools that were involved in the process in the next few weeks.
“I’m very surprised by the [GHSA] vote,” he said. “I didn’t think they would do anything.”
Judging by the three-to-one margin of the vote and pleas from several executive committee members to preserve the current membership makeup of the GHSA, it appears as if the GPSA movement had a significant impact.
“I don’t think of this as a victory,” Davis said. “I’m just pleased.”
“[The vote] was a little stronger than I thought it would be,” Swearngin said. “I think there are a variety of reasons why people voted how they did. I think the pleas for unity being in the best interest of everyone was a factor.”
One such vote came from Albert “Pat” Blenke, a Georgia Department of Education Administrator who sits on the GHSA executive committee. During the meeting, he said: “This is one of the biggest decisions we have to make as an organization. Eventually, the state legislators are going to get tired of hearing the complaints from their constituents, and they will do something. And as sure as I’m standing here, whatever they do will not be beneficial to the schools.
“A house divided against itself cannot stand,” Blenke said.
But after the vote he added, “Every decision you make is going to have unintended consequences.”
Others expressed concern over the vote, as well.
“Our biggest thing is we feel the GHSA is one of the top four high school associations in the nation, and I think we just made ourselves weaker. The best should play the best,” said Eagle’s Landing Christian Academy athletic director Scott Queen, who voted no. “We want to compete against the Lincoln County’s and the Clinch County’s, even though we haven’t beaten them yet. I just think this is going to be very hard to pull off.”
Buford athletic director Dexter Wood cast a “no” vote as well, which was aimed at the process, more than the resolution.
“My chief point of contention is that as an executive committee member we’re seeing this [proposal] for the first time and we’re being asked to make such a huge decision,” Wood said. “I would like to have had more time.”
Wood is also concerned that the next “target” will be single-city school districts with one high school, similar to Buford and Calhoun. Those schools have begun to come under fire for their ability to attract county students and allow them to enroll for a minimal amount of tuition – usually around $200 per month.
“It seems to be that the time has come where we are trying to level the playing field everywhere, and that’s such a relative matter,” Wood said. “There are definite differences between private schools and a city high school.”
AJC staff writer Michael Carvell contributed to this story.
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417 comments Add your comment
observer
January 13th, 2012
6:19 pm
Soccerref-I responded to your idea the first time you posted it.I treated it as a joke which I feel that it is regardless of intent-just one man’s opinion of course.Surely there can be less complicated methods of punishing the high achivers which seems to be the intent of this idea.
T
January 13th, 2012
6:40 pm
Observer, the GHSA has just done the “punishing”.
Private School Parent
January 13th, 2012
6:44 pm
Observer, I have posted a similar idea of moving up teams that have extended periods of success at one level. The model would have to be explored and designed and then tweaked over time. They should also allow teams to move down.
It is not intended to punish high achievers, it is intended to create more competition. It happens in nearly every adult league where a softball or basketball team dominates a league, they are asked to move up to where there are better teams. ALTA has levels and teams that must move up or down based on their talent and success.
When a minor league baseball player masters single A ball, they get called up to double A and eventually they strive for the majors. They don’t complain about being punished. Once they hit a level where they belong, that is where they stay.
The reason I like the idea is that it discourages cheating. You are going to eventually run into teams that are good enough to compete with you.
If you are better than everyone in your class, you should move up and play teams that are closer to your level. It is not arbitrarily saying that all private schools should just play AA or should play all other privates regardless of their size and skill level. You have proven that you are superior, so try the next level.
This would not allow Wilcox, Charlton and Lincoln to dominate the rest of the public schools for years to come. They would have to move up and face equal competition too. Teams could cheat all they want and they will either get caught or end up playing in 6A.
Private School Parent
January 13th, 2012
7:06 pm
I keep throwing out strong arguments and no one is challenging them, is it because I represent private schools? Am I only supposed to talk to other private school people?
observer
January 13th, 2012
7:32 pm
PSP-what constitutes cheating?I don’t feel that private schools are cheating when they abide by the rules set forth for them,the city schools are conforming to attendance policies established by the local school boards as are the county schools.Excellence can be achieved with superior coaching staffs and feeder programs without the “cheating”.Obviously I do not agree with any of the moving up proposals.I follow AAA(in2011)football mostly and I can say its pretty competitive especially among the top 8 or so.I just can’t go along with “if we can’t beat them then get them out of the way”(like just happened to the private schools in class A.The other classes of public schools haven’t whined very much about the privates-I hope they dont start.We all have our positions on transfers and city school attendance zones-now we sit back and see what if anything happens.
T
January 13th, 2012
7:44 pm
Why would public schools argue any more. Then got what they wanted at the “low end”.
PSP: Forcing schools to move up is a bad idea as talent levels come and go. A good group of players could “force” a school up when the next group can not compete in the higher class. As I have stated many times, schools should worry about improving their own teams and stop the “get rid of the competition” crap.
observer
January 13th, 2012
8:01 pm
T-I like your view on the subject-sounds like you had rather face the competition than avoid it.A refreshing take on this matter.
T
January 13th, 2012
8:06 pm
Has always been my stance and the stance of every high school athlete that I have asked about it. Once again, the kids are hurt by the egos of the adults.
T
January 13th, 2012
8:16 pm
I have two in private and one in public. I know how both sides of the coin work.
PSP
January 13th, 2012
8:42 pm
Observer – When you try to create a fair and competitive environment for sports, you have to choose a methodology. The GHSA said if schools with roughly the same number of kids to choose from play against each other, there should be a natural distribution of talent and various teams should win over time. They put limits on how much time they could practice, minimum academic eligibility, recruiting restrictions all to try and create a fair environment. So they try to make rules to guard against every form of manipulation, but there is only so much that they can do.
The goal of the system is to match comparable levels of talent. Just because you found ways to improve your talent pool far beyond what should be available does not mean you are playing fair. Buford pulls from all of the 4A and 5A talent pools and “competes” against 2A teams. I know they are moving up to 3A, but they will still be dominate.
SCPS has turned the entire city of Savannah into its personal feeder program and the results are showing on the field.
If you really cared about sportsmanship and fairness, you would acknowledge that the pool of talent at those two schools are not even close to other 2A and 1A schools.
T – I am certain that the rest of 2A has waited for Buford’s down cycle and it has not come in a dozen years. The only team that has consistently competed with them has been fighting fire with fire. So now we have Calhoun and Buford playing every year for the championship.
T
January 13th, 2012
8:48 pm
And the adding of a 6th classification took care of that situation without splitting the public and private. They will not dominate in 3A.
observer
January 13th, 2012
9:21 pm
I guess I didn’t realize that the goal was to create “comparable levels of talent”.I was under the assumption that class was assigned according to ada and naturally some will have more talent than others.Yes I do agree that Buford and Calhoun have more talent than the rest of AA but I do not think SAC has dominated class A.I suspect that there are schools with more transfers than the ones dominating.The next target seems to be the city schools in general.Let me say in closing that when you question my sportsmanship or that of any other of the bloggers on this site I say you seem to have a problem if someone does not agree with you.
PSP
January 13th, 2012
9:48 pm
I question your sportsmanship because you keep saying other teams should “just get better and quit complaining” but when I suggest you play in 2A you don’t want to play more competitive teams. It speaks for itself.
We will let everyone else decide if SCPS has been dominate, but playing for three straight championships and winning this year in convincing manner in a league of 70-something teams is exceptional.
I would venture to say that we now have separate playoffs thanks to SCPS and a few other teams. Thanks!
observer
January 13th, 2012
10:21 pm
PSP-at least you agree that if a person has a different point of view than yours then that person lacks sportsmanship and fairness.As for you saying that you suggest that “I” play up in 2A your reading skills are lacking-I clearly stated that I support a AAA team(AAAA next year)so How did I refuse your request?Surely you have me mixed up with someone else.I’m signing off on this subject-we have said all that can be said.I have my stand,others have theirs-time will sort out the winners&losers.Stand by your convictions unless you are convinced otherwise-there would be no need for discussions.Good luck and goodbye!
kmn
January 13th, 2012
11:12 pm
t if lincoln co is the leader of the run and hide crowd why did they elect to stay in the ghsa
City schools get unfair advantage
January 14th, 2012
12:21 am
Enter your comments here
showboat
January 14th, 2012
8:17 am
KMN, that comment should be amended. They led the movement that became the run and hide group, and even apparently gave them support but for some reason, Lincoln’s head coach decided to push to stay in GHSA. It almost was like he was tricking the schools to threaten with the GPSA so he could mediate with GHSA. It seems apparent he knew what the vote would be at GHSA ahead of time. He wasn’t a run and hide, but for all his bluster he has clearly shown he didn’t want to play private schools anymore either.
Once again, GHSA didn’t change things for any classification but A, and the only reason they did this was because of the success of private school in that class. As GHSA voting members have stated, this wasn’t well thought out – it was a quick reaction to prevent teams from leaving. Apparently, GHSA just doesn’t fair well under pressure. They don’t have a plan even – just a vote with some ideas about the future. While public schools might be crowing now in Class A, it will get far more interesting as we hear how they will implement this into the current structure, and how badly this will fragment regions, and further how it will affect the championship games.
T
January 14th, 2012
9:18 am
Really kmn, that is your uninformed response. I guess loyalty is blind.
kmn
January 14th, 2012
11:06 am
t- i live in metro atl no loyalty to lc . i understand campbell was a ring leader ,but the fact is they did not run and hide they stayed in the ghsa
John Wooden
January 14th, 2012
11:24 am
Couple of points in opposite directions: I attended a Buford basketball game last year and almost fell off the bleachers when they PRAYED before the game. I loved it, a private-public school that PRAYS!! Point 2: Final score a couple weeks ago in boys bb: Milton 76 North Forsyth 11. Now that is the system working for good clean interscholastic sports, right? I went to a Milton game last year and they were ranked nationally playing a Fulton rival and the stands were 3/4 empty!! Why? According to parents I asked, “why would our kids get pushed around in the halls all week by these kids and then be expected to come out on Friday night and cheer for them? None of them started 9th grade in our school”. NOW, there’s your real problem, what are we allowing here?
DEBOLES
January 14th, 2012
6:57 pm
BUFORD SHOULD BE REPORTED FOR ANY VIOLATIONS, JUST LIKE PRIVATE SCHOOLS SHOULD ADHERE TO PUBLIC SCHOOL RULES WHEN THEY JOIN A PUBLIC LEAGUE. THE GHSA SHOULD HAVE NIPPED THIS IN THE BUD LONG AGO, BUT MONEY TALKS…I HOPE THE PUBLIC SCHOOL COMMITTEE STICKS TO THEIR GUNS, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE GHSA SAYS OR DOES. ESPECIALLY SINCE THEY WON’T REVERSE NEXT YEAR’S CLASSIFICATION TO SUIT THE PUBLIC SCHOOL MAJORITY. WHAT CROOKS!
T
January 14th, 2012
9:38 pm
LC stayed only because the GHSA caved. They are scared of the competition and running away was their solution as Showboat explained.
kmn
January 14th, 2012
11:09 pm
t – they stayed before the ghsa caved
Class A Private School Championships Approved
January 15th, 2012
3:26 am
[...] As reported in The Atlanta Journal-Consititution, rural public schools unhappy about competing against urban private schools in Class A prevailed upon… [...]
THE END
January 15th, 2012
7:58 am
At the end of the day the GHSA addressed and resolved the private vs. public sports discrepancy in class A ball. Now they need to do the same thing in AA, AAA, AAAA and with the one that exists between the public “city” and public “county” schools. Either everyone plays by the same player eligibility rules (for playoff purposes) or scrap the playoff games altogether and just hand out trophies to every parent at the Savannah Christian’s (private’s) and Buford’s (public city’s) on Halloween. I am all for a better education and a more Christian environment but have heard more than enough here from the elitist who think their OCCUPY tactics will work any differently than the morons that are attempting it around the nation. I am tired of reading why they also deserve to compete by a different set of rules!
Private School Mom
January 15th, 2012
7:59 am
ouch!
Law Firm representing private schools
January 15th, 2012
8:17 am
My client did not get there way. See you in court GHSA.
AH
January 15th, 2012
8:20 am
“There are very few AA, AAA, AAAA privates and only 21 city schools”
I have no problem with a vastly shorter playoff season for the AA, AAA, AAAA privates and the A, AA, AAA, AAAA, AAAAA, AAAAAA public city’s if they have different player eligibility standards than the A, AA, AAA, AAAA, AAAAA, AAAAAA public county’s. Common sense tells us it should have been that way all along.
Johns Creek
January 15th, 2012
8:25 am
Privates and City schools don’t “cheat”. They simply play by a different set of rules. There simply needs to be a Georgia state championship for privates, public citys and public county’s. It’s not that hard to do (or expensive). AND, it’s extremely fair and consistent.
T
January 15th, 2012
12:28 pm
kmn, you are dead wrong. They went to the GHSA meeting telling/threatening everyone that if the split did not happen, they were going to run away and start their own league with 32 other schools afraid to compete. Once again, adults take your egos out of the equation, the kids want to play every one to determine who is best. Not just the ones the adults deem to be “equal”. I would say that the kids are trying to teach the adults a good life lesson when it should be the other way around.
D Johnson
January 15th, 2012
2:14 pm
T
I know there are two sides to every story but the GHSA voted overwhelmingly. Let it go or sue. You can’t make the trolls, you can only troll this blog (with me and maybe 3 other people).
kmn
January 15th, 2012
5:09 pm
t – they asked the ghsa to move to region 8a if the 32 schools split . they did not run and hide but asked to move to another region thats the facts
T
January 15th, 2012
5:34 pm
Asking for the move and threatening to leave and take the 32 others with them are two totally different things. I see why you are saying they wanted to stay before the vote now. But all they were doing with the reclassification request was cover their arse if they decided to stay after the vote. The dead line for the appeal of the reclassification HAD to be turned in prior to the vote. See how that works. It in NO WAY proves they wanted to stay if the vote did not go their way. They had every intention of bolting if the GHSA did not cave.
DJ, of course the GHSA voted “overwhelmingly”, there are way more public than private that got a vote. I am only saying that the Class A coaches are setting a bad life lesson for their kids in wanting the change. My school is 4A and is not effected by this, but for these public school people to hail this as a victory is sad.
D Johnson
January 15th, 2012
6:57 pm
“I am only saying that the Class A coaches are setting a bad life lesson for their kids in wanting the change”.
I disagree. 14-18 year old kids are not capable of making that decision. Adults have to do what’s in the best interest of the vast majority. Hard to make everybody happy.
Jefferson
January 15th, 2012
7:04 pm
Well this is enough, no more changes. Go with it, see where it goes.
showboat
January 15th, 2012
7:07 pm
D Johnson – I think what T is trying to say is that those voting had a vested interest in the outcome. And they were pressured by the GPSA threat to make a poor decision. Why a poor decision? They didn’t really have time to think it all the way through. The GHSA put that off until another day. You can’t really call it “just” when you are forcing a group to make a pretty significant decision on the spot. It seems obvious to any and everyone that GHSA wasn’t going this route without the threats and intimidation.
For those are saying that the private schools are using Occupy tactics, what the public schools used to get the outcome they did was more akin to the old Labor Unions tricks. It is all a matter of perspective.
kmn
January 15th, 2012
7:34 pm
T- You are stating your opinion of what you believe they will do in the future. I am stating the FACTS of what happened…
HS Coach
January 15th, 2012
8:21 pm
T is correct. I was at the meeting and LC came in telling any one that would listen, that they were leaving if the split did not happen. LC filed the change of classification as a point of order and had, according to them, every intention of leaving the GHSA and taking any one who was willing with them.
Rockmart Needs a Coach
January 16th, 2012
1:02 pm
Stick a fork in it. What difference do it really make to most of the GHSA schools.
showboat
January 16th, 2012
3:57 pm
“Stick a fork in it. What difference do it really make to most of the GHSA schools.”
Rockmart, where was that sentiment one the shoe was on the other foot a few weeks ago?
T
January 16th, 2012
4:06 pm
Rock does not even want privates to exist. This tells you all you need to know about his thought process.
jvillebil
January 16th, 2012
4:41 pm
I’ve been reading these comments for almost a week now, occassionally making a comment as I really don’t have a dog in this fight. But I went to the Georgia High School Polls and looked at the rankings from baseball last year until basketball this year. This is what I found.
Football: 6 of the top 10 teams were private with 4 of the top 5 being private.
Boys Basketball: 5 of the top 10 teams are private with the top 3 all being private.
Girls Basketball: 8 of the top 10 teams are private with the top 6 all being private.
Baseball: 9 of the top 10 teams were private with top 5 all being private.
Softball: 7 of the top 10 teams were private with top 4 being private.
What it looks like to me is that the private schools really don’t need the public schools. It seems like what they need to do is encourage other private schools to get better. I understand the need to play other teams during the regular season due to the cost of travel. But since they are dominating now and will only continue to get stronger at the expense of the class A schools why does it matter if they don’t play them come playoff time? Surely it can’t be because they say they want to beat the best, heck they are the best. I would suggest any class A private school to move up to AA for better competition. At the rate they are going they would fair well and it would only be a matter of time and they would be winning state championships at that level.
I can understand why the public schools don’t want to play the privates after looking at the big picture. Even though most private people feel it was instigated by Lincoln and Wilcox, which I’m in agreement surely the public coaches of softball, baseball and & basketball teams feel the same way.
Rockmart Needs a Coach
January 16th, 2012
4:54 pm
At some point the crying must stop and move on.
T
January 16th, 2012
5:03 pm
Eaxctly J-bil, why would they want to try and make their own programs better when all they have to do is have the competition removed and they get an easier ride. Makes since in the public school/government run world.
showboat
January 16th, 2012
8:57 pm
jvillebil, the point of the conversation is that there ARE some elite public Class A schools who will now simply dominate the public league, and would actually do well to play in the private league. What more, you miss out on the whole spirit of competition, of beating the best. Sure, there will be some tough competition among the smaller public schools to see who will get a chance to get to the quarterfinals of the playoffs, but in the end, I don’t see too many public school teams taking down Lincoln.
I think what should be considered in your analysis is this (and it won’t be done because it would be a ton of work): remove the private schools from the playoffs, and tell me that there won’t be a few dominant teams that will become the Class A version of Buford and Calhoun. It won’t take long before the Class A schools turn on them, just like so many have turned on the “city schools” now that they have the private A teams separate. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the loudest public school teams that pushed for the change now take turns being champions.
To your point, based on your argument, shouldn’t these teams want to join the privates to form the best of the best, and let the other schools have the chance to develop?
D Johnson
January 16th, 2012
10:15 pm
I hope this blog gets the GHSA to take a long hard look at the “city” school phenomina.
jvillebil
January 16th, 2012
10:54 pm
Showboat, I don’t necessarily disagree with what you’re saying. I realize it will go back to Clinch, Wilcox, Charlton and a few others dominating football. I’m not speaking from a public point of view, I’m just sorta of stating the facts. The public sector liked the fact that they dominated and thought, “ok let’s invite the private schools and beat up on them also.” But somewhere along the way that all changed. But what has happend that the other sports ( non football) have gotten into the mix and it doesn’t look bright for them. I still think there are many public teams that will always be able to compete with the private schools, but if private schools do start recruiting in non football sports, the teams like Bacon, Calhoun Co, Irwin, Turner, Dooly ect that have to rely strictly on the home grown kids won’t be able to compete. Sure they can work harder on the local level, but most coaches use places like this as a stepping stone. I can’t say that’s fair to the kids. Look I see both sides of the fence. I realize that most private schools are started for education, because I would send my children to a private school if I lived in Savannah, Albany, Macon or such.
It’s a complicated situation, I think we all agree. I grew up in Georgia and have been was involved for many years in several parts of the state. I now live outside of Jacksonville fla and support our public school. We compete against the Bolles and Bishop Kenny’s that are private schools that can recruit. Heck Bolles took our all-state 6′3″ 305 lb lineman a few years ago. LOL, well wasn’t actually funny at the time. I asked him how he got to go to Bolles he stated, they gave me a scholarship. Didn’t even know who paid for it.
I applaud the private schools for all their hard work. But just looking at it from a public school side, THEY (not me) want things the way it used to be. I didn’t say it was right or wrong, just looking at it from both sides.
jokerswild
January 17th, 2012
12:24 pm
In the end this decision by GHSA may well be the best for the public school teams in A, simply due to the fact that for at least the last 3 years the coaches and the parents and booster club members, and everyone else you can think of have, perhaps inadvertantly, convinced the athletes that they can not win against the private schools. I know this; I am a parent of a class A athlete. Most adults don’t seem to realize how quick teenagers pick up on these type things.
On a side note : GISA people, can take heart; for in the next few years the public school programs, will understand how it feels to be constantly reminded that you and your program is inferior.
Weasel
January 17th, 2012
7:42 pm
Chicken droppings
T
January 17th, 2012
8:56 pm
And do not realize it.