GHSA prepared to vote on radical ‘4/8′ reclassification plan on Monday
The GHSA’s Executive Committee will have the opportunity to vote on a radical reclassification plan for the state’s high schools on Monday.
On Sunday, the Reclassification Committee voted 7-5 to present what is dubbed the “4/8 plan” to the full board on Monday in Macon. Under the proposal, the state’s existing five classifications would be reduced to four, and there would be two state championships per class for an overall total of eight.
“I really don’t have a clue yet, and this sounds really strange after all these years, about how the [Executive Committee's] 50 members are going to vote on this,” Dr. Ralph Swearngin, the GHSA’s Executive Director, told the AJC on Sunday.
“Even with Sunday’s discussion, there does not appear to be any consensus. People who are for the ‘4/8′ are for it for a couple of reasons. People that are against it are against it for a couple of reasons. There appears to be nothing clear-cut that we’ve seen that is going to solve all the problems.”
The idea behind the “4/8 plan” is to allow member schools to play teams closer in proximity during the regular season and closer in student enrollment during the playoffs. For example, Class AAAA may have 100 schools in it, with 50 largest and smallest split up for the playoffs to compete for Div. I and II state championships in each sport. Some have expressed worries with the logistics with increasing to eight state championships, such as 16 overall championship games for girls and boys basketball.
“I think the people behind ‘4/8′ are going to spend more time at Monday’s presentation explaining how to work around some of the difficulties and problems associated with this plan,” Swearngin said. “It will be interesting to see how everything goes.”
The Executive Committee has three options: Approve, deny or table the proposal for further research. If passed on Monday, the new classification structure would take effect in the fall of 2012.
– Michael Carvell
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109 comments Add your comment
figures
March 20th, 2011
6:44 pm
one more stupid idea from the educators in Georgia….
figures
March 20th, 2011
6:45 pm
Why don’t they just call it what it is…they want to separate private and public schools…period.
Dontavius Supremo
March 20th, 2011
6:54 pm
Sounds stupid to me; I just don’t see the need. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!
Asheville Dawg
March 20th, 2011
6:54 pm
That’s how they do things in North Carolina. STUPID is what it is. Let’s see “we are the class AAAA division two Champions”. Doesn’t even sound right. Boo to the GHSA if they go to this inane system.
Brent
March 20th, 2011
6:59 pm
Just a bad idea. Proponents argue less travel thus less time out of class and less travel expense for schools. I seriously doubt that would happen. Whatever the outcome it just means more watered down championships especially in individual sports like wrestling and track. All we need to do is tweak the current system.
Brent
March 20th, 2011
7:01 pm
I just hope that the powers that be in the GHSA read all the blogs to see how unpopular this proposal is.
Tim Stillwell
March 20th, 2011
7:04 pm
They do something very similar in Tennessee. It is very confusing. However it will save on transportation cost and may renew some older rivalries that have been done away with by some districts population growth.
glw
March 20th, 2011
7:27 pm
I agree 8 champions are too many.
I would prefer that keep it at 5 classes.
Put the 48 largest teams in 5A, and divide them equally into 6 team regions.
In classes 2A-4A increase the regions from 8 to 16, this would eliminate sub regions and allow schools to cut down on travel costs as most regions would consists with from 4 to 8 teams and the non region games could be played against rival schools in different classes.
Class 1A could stay with 8 region for football and maybe increase for other sports.
oh man its them again
March 20th, 2011
7:32 pm
OK It goes on the thought that in the same AAAAA classification you still have a 2000 student seperation in schools competing against each other. Transportation costs are getting outragous and schools will either have to dump non-profitable sports like golf, tennis, track, lacross, etc etc. the only two sports that make any money for a school are football and basketball. It makes a ton of sense to limit the transportation between schools especially in the south part of the state. Even in metro atlanta some schools have to travel over an hour to play region games. I don’t think it is the private school issue and just making one more classification makes more sense. OR make a southern and northern state champ and than have them play each other
Geeeezzzz
March 20th, 2011
7:34 pm
The members of the GHSA board must take the wonderlic with anybody making over 10 being disqualified. They are just DUMB. No other explanation is possible. If they are going to have 8 champions, why don’t they just have 8 classes.
I will say they are consistant, consistantly stupid.
Educatedbeyond theirintelligence...
March 20th, 2011
7:36 pm
Enter your comments here
Well known...
March 20th, 2011
7:38 pm
DON”T EXPECT ANY COMMON SENSE FROM THE GHSA! They don’t have any.
glw
March 20th, 2011
7:41 pm
yeah I know a big issue is the disparity between the largest to smallest schools in 5A, but there is no way to fix that problem. What do you do, put only the schools with 2500 in a class by themselves? Then if you do that, then you have in the region below it, schools with 2400 students competing against schools with say 1500? there is no way to fix the problem. Let’s be real, only so many kids can compete at any one time. While the larger schools have a larger talent pool to choose from, not sure it gives a clear and distinctive advantage over other schools in 5A
ecu1996
March 20th, 2011
8:17 pm
I live in North Carolina and I always thought the playoffs were a joke in football. But now that the GHSA is thinking about doing it I;m in shock. I thought the GHSA took there football playoffs serious. This would be a horrible move for GA.
Vince
March 20th, 2011
8:20 pm
That is too many champions, but something must be done.
It doesn’t make any sense for schools such as Mountain View, in Gwinnett, with 1800 students to be in a region with schools like Mill Creek, with an enrollment of 3800.
somebody else
March 20th, 2011
8:21 pm
Why don’t we just stop keeping score and let everyone call themselves state champions? You learn at least as much from watching someone else be crowned state champion as being crowned yourself.
Seen it before
March 20th, 2011
8:21 pm
State of Texas does the two division championships across 5 (A-AAAAA) classifications for football only. All other sports fall into the 1A–5AAAAA classification championships only. It works and no one complains when they win a div 1 or div 2 championship. When you are fat and old like me, all you remember is that you were state champion.
yo
March 20th, 2011
8:22 pm
This makes a LOT of sense and I’m all in. This will come the closest to sloving the problem with the lack of AAAAA schools in South Georgia thus they can compete with other AAAA in the area and then compete in the playoffs with the schools their on size. Thus a Valdosta would be able to compete in the AAAA 2nd division (where they belong) and a Lowndes would be able to compete in a AAAA 1st division (where they belong). A super region would cause Lowndes and Camden to have to be in a region with teams from Atlanta………BAD IDEA.
Honest Ingine
March 20th, 2011
8:22 pm
Why dont they just call it North Georgia State Champion, and South GA state champion, thats what its going to work out to be.
DaveDawg
March 20th, 2011
8:23 pm
Just create a 6-A for the mega-sized schools, if that’s the biggest problem. Leave the rest alone, please.
westlakeclassof10
March 20th, 2011
8:25 pm
IF i did the class i would with put the teams that won the most games an all sports in one class and
Pope UGA XXIII
March 20th, 2011
8:36 pm
Here you have proof of why georgia ranks 49th in educational
performance. Who on earth thought up something like this ?
Nothing wrong with adding a 6-A classification, but this 4/8
reclassification plan will cause a lot of problems
guwinster
March 20th, 2011
8:43 pm
If they do this, will they prevent teams from playing up?
gvf
March 20th, 2011
8:50 pm
The state govt will threaten to take over if they don’t get there way. Please dont surrender.
mgdawg
March 20th, 2011
8:57 pm
I like the classifications how they are now, minus the private schools. Private schools shouldn’t be allowed to play in ghsa, but if they are they should do like the used to and make them play up in a higher classification to counteract recruiting, which we all know happens. Yes recruiting probably happens at public schools also, but atleast it isn’t as blatant as private schools.
I really don’t mind the idea, but call it what it is, 8 classifications. I don’t see the point in saying there are 4 classifications split in two. Sounds like you’re just trying to make something sound cool while all it is doing is making it sound worse.
Delbert D.
March 20th, 2011
9:01 pm
New Jersey had a North and South champion for each classification back in the late ’70s; don’t know if they still do it that way.
Dr. John Trotter
March 20th, 2011
9:01 pm
Where’s Bill Fordham when we need him? What about William A. Screws? Or, wasn’t the other man’s name Sam Burke? What is going on, guys?
I still can’t even get the Division 1A and 1AA stuff straight. I still read where the reporters will write, “Bowl Championship Division (formerly known as Division 1AA).” Heck, I probably screwed it up there. Who can keep up with these changes? I know that it must be about the money.
Would Wright Bazemore and Nick Hyder understand it? I don’t, even after reading the article. Mr. Phillips, would Herschel Walker understand it? You coached him, didn’t you? Herschel’s a smart man. Let’s see now…Moultrie (uh, I mean “Colquitt County”) is the Region AAAAA, Division II State Champions. Well, Tift County must be better because they won the Region AAAAA, Division II State Championship. Isn’t this how it would work, Earl Anderson?
If Oliver Honeycutt at LaGrange with his teams forever wearing those black high tops would have gone for it, then maybe I could live with it. Or, what about Coach Cavan of the old Robert E. Lee Institute right there in Thomaston? Pig Davis of Columbus High? Sumpter Blackmon of Jordan? Coach Henderson of Willingham/Mt.DeSales/ClarkeCentral? Larry Campbell of Lincoln County? Buck Godfrey of Southwest DeKalb? Coach Waymon Creel of Lakeside/Westminster? If you can or could have sold this plan to these gentlemen, then perhaps I could go along with it. Ahhhh, would Corky Kell have approved of this plan if he were on the GHSA Board? Or, Bud Theodocian? Jim Hughes of Colquitt County and Arnold Jr. High in Columbus? (Couldn’t resist Arnold because it’s my old school!) Sam Burke…oh, I already dropped his name. Sorry. O. K. William Screws. Now I don’t think that Mr. Screws would have put up with any nonsensical plan. So, if you think that William A. Screws, former Chairman for GHSA Board, would have gone along with this new organizational plan, then let’s go with it. The Screws Plan. Yes, I could go along with The Screws Plan.
I think the Committee ought to pay attention to people like Dr. Ralph Swearngin. I think that they probably have a good handle on the logistics and so forth. It sounds from reading the article that Dr. Swearngin is not the instigator behind this new plan which passed the Committee with flying colors (7 to 5). With this much lack of consensus, it might be wise to table any new action. When the natives get restless, sometimes the professional staff gets stampeded! Life is full of surprises. I am sure that the GHSA will survive this as well. Hey, we survived New Coke, didn’t week. I grew up with the Classic Region 1-AAA. GHSA had classifications C, B, A, AA, and AAA. I liked that alignment. But, it changed, and we still play high school football, basketball, etc., in Georgia! GHSA, I love Georgia high school sports! You are doing a good job! Now let me go walk some of that big lunch off! You guys have fun.
The Screws Plan. Name if after William A. Screws, a great school man and sports advocate in Georgia. He passed away a couple of years ago. I knew him since I was a young kid, and I am sure that he would not mind the new plan being named after him. If a school feels that it got screwed, just remind them that is The Screws Plan. If you knew Mr. Screws, I think that you would realize that he would appreciate the irony! It was a rough and tough gentleman who had a heart of gold. His students and teachers of Jordan Vocational High School (his own alma mater, by the way) adored Mr. Screws, long time assistant principal and principal of JVHS and long time board member with GHSA.
Southern
March 20th, 2011
9:01 pm
Once again, the GHSA messes with something that really is fine just the way it is.
Dr. John Trotter
March 20th, 2011
9:04 pm
I meant to say that Tift County won 1-AAAAA, Division I, not Division II. The point is that people will be confused will judge Division II as less than Division I.
CB
March 20th, 2011
9:09 pm
Liberals in the teachers unions!
Dr. John Trotter
March 20th, 2011
9:17 pm
CB, That’s just one of the hats that I wear! Ha! I am tempted to call you a wrestling fan, but I won’t insult you, OK?
Wheat Williams
March 20th, 2011
9:18 pm
What does “GSHA” stand for? What is this organization, and what does it do? I came to this page from the home page headline, wanting to find out what the heck a “GSHA” is because I’ve never heard of it before. I read your article and can’t make any sense out of it, because you don’t define the term. Inscrutable headline, inscrutable article, all because the journalist is too lazy to type out the meaning of a four-letter acronym. Doesn’t anybody proofread these days?
vg
March 20th, 2011
9:20 pm
School size disparity among the larger classification schools cause a problem and the private schools dominate the smallest class. This plan would seem to address the competitive issues of school size and the travel time and loss of class time (due to travel) issues. Many people believe that school size doesn’t matter, but when you have a larger pool to select your team from there’s a likelihood that you will find MORE athletes and a good coach will utilize those athletes. It’s an idea that would take some time to absorb, but there are some positives for the kids of the smaller schools in each classification. They would compete for the state championship of the lower division with schools that are similar in size, thus giving them an opportunity to experience the joy of winning a state championship, regardless of how much it seems to be watered down by this plan. At first I wasn’t a fan of the proposal, but as I think about it there are some positives for the kids. We’re all used to having 1 state championship for each classification. If this proposal passes, I’m sure that we’ll all make the necessary adjustments. I’m a Class A person and there are so many discrepancies in that class that could be fixed with this proposal. Class A coaches often complain that no one thinks about their schools when reclassification is done. I don’t think that this plan will affect the perennial participants in the state playoffs, but it will affect those schools that have good teams, but can’t win state championships because of the discrepancy in school size. There may be some adjustments needed for the non money generating sports, but the big 2 (football and basketball) could benefit from this plan. It would generate more revenue for more schools and the GHSA.
guwinster
March 20th, 2011
9:21 pm
If travel costs are such a big issue, then just get rid of the home and away series that they do in almost every sport except for football.
There is a good chance that this proposal will only make some regions bigger geographically. Take Camden for instance…you put together a AAAA region with the big area schools like Camden, Glynn, Brunswick, Ware, Wayne, Liberty and Bradwell, but Camden would be the only school in that region that qualifies as an upper AAAA division school. To balance it out (to have at least 4 uppers and 4 lowers), you would need to add Tift, Lowndes etc., thus increasing travel time. Unless of course they wanted to bump Glynn, Ware and Bradwell into the upper AAAA division, in which case you would have an even bigger disparity in school populations come play-off time.
black1
March 20th, 2011
9:23 pm
get rid of private schools all together. Its Ga High School as in public. or at least make them go by our rules. Well if we had any rules. Move up the private schools to AAA and AA. Then we will see if they win!!!
south ga. possum
March 20th, 2011
9:25 pm
First of all…Get private schools and their recruting machines and money out of GHSA. If they wanna be a private school let them play in the private schools schedule and playoff…they have no business in the GHSA. Making private schools play up one classification doesn’t solve the recruting problems and big money problems associated with the private schools and everybody including GHSA officials knows this to be true. And for re-classification…leave things alone. It would suit me if the GHSA scraped to DOME and go back to the days of old and let these kids play on their own turf and in their own familiar surroundings. We all know this dome thing is all about MONEY..not for what’s best for the programs involved. The old way worked fine, we all had a good time, and it was much more affordable for the average working high school fans. I know this will never happen, because it makes too much sense.
Dr. John Trotter
March 20th, 2011
9:26 pm
@ Wheat: The article was indeed a little difficult to decipher. But, I am sure that Mr. Carvell was almost as confused as the rest of the state will be…should this plan pass. But, as I stated, high school sports in Georgia will survive!
I notice that I am putting off taking a walk. Sometimes blogging is more fun than a barrell of monkeys, especially when you blog under you real name. Verbal duelling, eh?
Dave H.
March 20th, 2011
9:27 pm
Here’s how to thin-out bloated class 4-A and level the playing field in the higher classifications:
5-A enrollment of 1,800 or greater (down from the current number, this would lop about 15 schools off the top of 4-A)
6-A enrollment of 2,500 or greater (this would lop about 15 mega-schools of the top of 5-A)
old school
March 20th, 2011
9:34 pm
All one has to do is see GHSA Management at any State Championship[ event. Bubba, Goober, Ernie, Ralph, Barney, Emmit Howard and Floyd. It is pathetic!!
Ringleader
March 20th, 2011
9:41 pm
The major item is missing from the article…….
It is all about money…….The more teams in the playoffs, the more money by the state association, they get the ticket sales.
Bill
March 20th, 2011
9:43 pm
It bears remindimg that this bunch of “educators”has had Georgia ranked 40 or below in state rankings for decades.
I expect nothing less from this crowd.
Ray
March 20th, 2011
9:43 pm
IF you have to go into a big explanation about state champions etc.. then its probably not a good idea. Are they trying to be as clear as what we see with the NCAA. We all know how they are crystal clear on all of their reasonings.
ATLcracker
March 20th, 2011
9:45 pm
Has any one ever talked about breaking the larger schools into different groups within the school that could play each other? That would ease the transportation problems and solve what I think is one of the biggest problems in the current system – not enough kids get a chance to play. My kids go to a class A sized school. I would guess the participation rate for sports/band/cheerleader/academic teams is close to 80 %. We have 22 boys out of 220 that start for our football team. The big Atlanta schools have those same 22 starters but that leaves 2000 boys who are not starters. No wonder we have so many bored lost kids. Participating in team sports was one of the defining experiences of my life and we are denying that opportunity to most of our children. A school of 2400 could break into 4 pods (call them gryffindor, hufflepuff ,ravenclaw, and slytherin) and play each other. They could play any local pods of 600 size ( a full school of 600 or one of two pods from a nearby school of 1200). Yes, you would have to be sure the players were randomly assigned but that should be easy ( a sorting hat perhaps). You could then pick an all-star squad to play a tournament if you Had to declare some larger grouping championship. You would have to give up some things you might like about the current system but the important thing is more kids would get a chance to play.
ant banks
March 20th, 2011
9:51 pm
well, cobb county or gwinett, i forgot which one is goin’ to a 2 valedictorian and 2 salutatorian program. so 2 championships is consistent with that. it’s turnin’ into recreation league where everyone gets a trophy. don’t want anyone to feel sad.
wonder how long it will take for the ncaa to start havin’ 2 heisman, a heisman west and heisman east. lol
tswan
March 20th, 2011
9:52 pm
this is a great idea – it is exactly what Texas does, and even those of you that think this is stupid, i know want to do things like Texas… ha
actually in Texas, there is a AAAAA-Div.1 and AAAAA-Div.2 champion, and each year it is a toss up which division actually has the better teams. for instance this past year Div. 2 had the stronger teams. Trust me you will get used to it, and will like it because more teams go to the playoffs, more money for the schools, and less travel during the regular season, more rings = all +’s and of course the div.1 teams make fun of the div.2 teams as “small school champion” although it makes no difference. the teams are state champions, kids love it, parents love it. hope the board votes it in.
GwinnettDad
March 20th, 2011
9:52 pm
How about 64 classifications, or 132, or 264? Then everybody can have a State Championship. On first glance, this 4/8 approach sounds as if it was dreamed up by a First Grade Teacher. Everybody gets an award these days, everybody, for after all, nobody is a loser. Boring!
The egos of many high school administrators these days, they simply just can’t leave anything alone. Thus, such an issue gives them something to do, a job justification. Otherwise, many of them don’t have anything else worthwhile to do. Why not concentrate on finding ways to raise SAT scores, instead?
SportsFan31313
March 20th, 2011
9:59 pm
The best way in my opinion isa to add AAAAAA to the Classification and only the Region and Sub Region Champions proceed on to the Post Season Playoffs for all Classifications…..
Bigguy
March 20th, 2011
10:01 pm
Why not have a division “A” champion and a division “1″ champion for all 4 classes? Then nobody feels slighted.
chatham cty
March 20th, 2011
10:02 pm
South Ga possum GHSA stands for Georgia High school association not Georgia Public High school association. it is a private orginazation not public. Ther are private schools that have been in it for 50 years or more. I do think that lowest division that a private school should be allowed is AA.
jacketdad
March 20th, 2011
10:06 pm
This system was put in place in Tennessee two years ago with the same intention of reducing travel. It may have achieved that goal but the playoff system is extrmely confusing with a lot of really questionable seedings occurring. The new plan did try to deal with the private school issue by installing a multiplier formula that multiplied the provate schools student body by 1.6 to determine their classification.
wYLd hAiR
March 20th, 2011
10:08 pm
@ATL cracker: are you smokin’ crack?!?!?!? That sounds a lot like the “let them all play and make sure everyone gets a trophy for participation” junk that makes my skin crawl. 99% of these kids will never amount to anything and the sooner they come to realize that and cope with it the better. 5% of the world has 55% of the wealth, the best jobs, the best homes, and a better life than the other 95%. Teach ‘em that life is gonna $uck now and they’ll have the best chance to deal with it and be happy with their miserable little middle class existance.
Really?
March 20th, 2011
10:10 pm
old school is right and if you have ever have to deal with the GHSA’s office you will find Andy and Barney too. A real good ole boy network and a sad state of affairs for Georgia high school sports.
Educatedbeyondtheirintellegence
March 20th, 2011
10:17 pm
Don’t worry,,If the GHSA can screw it up, they will!
Frank
March 20th, 2011
10:19 pm
Georgia High School classification has always catered to the preferences of the football teams. As long as the interests of football are preferred, then the classification system will always need tweaking to adjust for waning and waxing teams. I am a former soccer coach for a Georgia high school, and can say without trepidation that the regions are always weighted towards what is best for football, and perhaps to some extent basketball and baseball. Travel considerations are usually next to last in consideration. Adjustments for growth or contraction are always expected every few years, and is common sense. But, it seems to me that these meetings are usually controlled by the football elite as an oligarchy, with little or no consideration for the “lesser” sports that don’t bring in the money.
WarEagle
March 20th, 2011
10:19 pm
This is about $ — more state championships means more money for the GHSA because there will be more playoff games. Simple as that.
coondog
March 20th, 2011
10:20 pm
It’s sad but the GHSA board is just a joke, made up almost entirely of bitter old worn out men who are now “important”…
ATLcracker
March 20th, 2011
10:31 pm
wYld hAir I don’t understand. Are you implying that all kids who go to a smaller school “suck” and should just get a participation trophy. What would be the difference in a kid who goes to a small school or plays for a pod drawn from an equal number of kids? Do you really believe that the only purpose of sports teams is to provide a feeder system for the professional leagues? If you do then your comment might make some sense.
Outside observer
March 20th, 2011
10:35 pm
People that keep talking about private school recruiting really have no idea what they are talking about. That may be your public school education or teacher union influencing your opinion not the facts. Private schools can not give out athletic scholarships. You have to pay to go there. A kid can not go to a private school without a big check to go along with them. Once they have the money the kid and his parents have to appeal to the almighty GHSA to become eligible to play. Please don’t say anything ignorant about how the booster club or other parents pay for athletes to go to private schools either. This isn’t college football at SMU. Most children attend private schools because the parents want their kids to have a better education than they would get at most of our public schools. Have you seen where our public schools ranked lately? Whiny people who are uneducated about private schools are one of the main real reasons GHSA wants to 2 division champs. GHSA just doesn’t have the sack to come out and say it. By the way I attended public school and don’t have a dog in the fight, but if you are going to make a general statement about something at least have the fact’s straight.
yo
March 20th, 2011
10:49 pm
There are only 2 (possibly 3) at the most schools in “all” of South Georgia with school enrollment over 2000. If you went to a mega classification I am curious as to which of the Atlanta and Gwinnett area schools are volunteering to play in the same region of Lowndes and Camden? The 4/8 idea is the “only” idea that allows the few big schools in S.Ga to play the schools around them without the Atlanta area coming down to play in their region. Then the (not mega) schools of populations of 1800 to 2500 could play against themselves for a state championship. It did not used to be the case that we had mega populated schools like we have today. Things have changed…..wake up and smell the roses. Good ole Bazemore (and all of the rest) didn’t have to compete against these schools. Also, there are a lot more schools in Georgia because of population explosion than there was when good old Bazemore (and all of the rest) were coaching.
Commonsenseagitator
March 20th, 2011
10:52 pm
stupidest thing I have ever heard of
Fred
March 20th, 2011
10:54 pm
Unless and until some magical governing authority can dictate where people live and the size of the schools that can be built, there will *always* be inequities. Gwinnett believes in mega schools. DeKalb doesn’t. Side by side but wildly different philosophies. Camdem County believes in a single mega school while Brunswick doesn’t. There just isn’t a good way to break it up, make everyone happy and satisfy some common since requirements like limiting travel on school nights. Yep, football is the 800lb gorilla as it pays many of the bills. I kind of like what someone mentioned about football competing in one division alignment and the other sports in a different one. In any event, I’m ready for some football!
Frank
March 20th, 2011
10:54 pm
Yo, what sport are you imagining when you reference Lowndes and Camden? Soccer? Golf? Tennis? My point is that most folks look at the football competition as the primary focus. I like the current proposal on the basic point that it creates regional rivalries in ALL SPORTS, and will result in participation in playoffs represented by teams from all geographical regions of Georgia, regardless of rank. I doubt seriously that the current proposal will change any college recruitment office’s player rankings for football.
Fred
March 20th, 2011
10:55 pm
Oops, make that common “sense” not “since”. Dang it, the mind knew what was right, why didn’t the fingers type it?
John
March 20th, 2011
11:02 pm
If adopted, this will ruin high school sports in Georgia. We would go from the best playoff system in the southeast to the worst. Intelligence hopefully will overrule this horrible idea.
Tom E. Gunn
March 20th, 2011
11:09 pm
Just say thankyou to the private schools and Buford, they brought this on by ‘buying” championships.
Frank
March 20th, 2011
11:23 pm
Thom, who do you think has been “buying” the system for the last 40 years? Only the football powerhouse schools have dictated the region classification because they draw the fans and the money, so the money talks. Don’t be so naive to think that it still does not, even under the current new proposal. John, I suppose it was the best system because it satisfied your desire to promote the football team that you favor. This is High School, folks, not the NFL, or the NBA. Only 0.5% of high school athletes make it through the rigors of college in this state to professional status. That means that all those scholarships are wasted? I would think not. College recruiting of elite athletes will not change because of the new proposal, just the aspirations of the football dynasties that dominate under the past system.
Chris
March 20th, 2011
11:31 pm
Why do a couple of morons on this keep commenting about teachers unions and the like?
The GHSA only governs athletics and has nothing to do with the schools workings.
guwinster
March 20th, 2011
11:33 pm
@Yo:
So basically, you’re saying that Lowndes and Camden automatically qualify for the playoffs in every sport because they are the only large AAAA schools in all of South Georgia? How can you seed the playoffs when you have a region (South GA) in which only 2 or 3 teams qualify to play in the largest division (AAAA upper class)?
Drago
March 20th, 2011
11:46 pm
If it will do something about the desparity of school size in AAAAA, I am for it.
ArkyTech
March 21st, 2011
12:28 am
Arkansas recently went from 5 classifications to 7 and it’s a complete mess. The conferences don’t match up with the classifications in some cases. And only 16 teams each in the 2 highest classifications. Really waters down the value of a state championship.
yo
March 21st, 2011
1:14 am
Frank I think we are on the same page by your comments.
Guwinster I don’t think it a bad idea that football be adopted into this system and other sports not.
As far as automatic qualifying it pretty much is that way now. Only 5 teams in 1AAAAA and 4 qualify. At least in the playoffs they would be competing on a more level playing field.
The super classification would require Atlanta area teams to compete in South Georgia in a humongous region mileage wise (assuming schools can’t play up).
John In Jacksonville
March 21st, 2011
1:24 am
I think we all need to hear more about the idea, and look at the potential real-world savings, before panning it. Most states are having to make huge cuts in education, which includes coaches and money to burn all those stadium lights. We are laying off teachers, firemen, and policemen. If there is a way for high school athletics to keep on going, but freeing up some money to keep teachers and coaches paid, then I am all for at least listening.
john norris
March 21st, 2011
2:13 am
in new plan make buford and calhoun move up to aaa ball or aaaaa ball they can beat any one of does teams because they recrute leave fitzgerald in aa and chalton county in a
j. warren
March 21st, 2011
2:36 am
Why do we put so much emphasis on athletics rather than concentrating more on educating our students and figuring out a way to pay our teachers. Now that would be a great idea for GHSA to have a discussion about on Monday.
Wildcat Nation
March 21st, 2011
3:27 am
I would rather see a 6A classification! To yo, Valdosta will always compete in the highest classification. Have you noticed how the CATS sports teams fare in 5A?
BehindEnemyLines
March 21st, 2011
4:20 am
Absolute insanity, almost as bad as the gigantic mess in TN. I feel sorry for anyone who believes this is about anything other than additional revenue from watered down playoff games & trying to save a few coaches by creating more “championships”.
BehindEnemyLines
March 21st, 2011
4:22 am
@Chris – who do you think the voting members of the GHSA are?
Goose
March 21st, 2011
6:17 am
Sad thing is that just like any other governming body they won’t listen to the majority. A decision will be made to satisfy the uninformed few and the kids and schools will take it in the shorts in the end. It would surprise me if they pass this without even reading itl, ala Nancy Pelosi on the health reform bill. Just another bad idea!
Mr Wonderlic
March 21st, 2011
7:11 am
How about this, spend your time and energy on fixing the EDUCATION system first. You know budget issues, and oh and maybe increase our state SAT rank from 48th.
Tigger
March 21st, 2011
7:35 am
They should just let MORE people who aren’t doing anything stand on the sidelines at the state championship games so that the working press will have even more people to work around when they are trying to do their jobs.
vg
March 21st, 2011
7:38 am
This blog isn’t about SAT scores, but we rank near the bottom on SAT scores because we allow all students to take the SAT. In many states only the elite students take the SAT, thus driving their state averages up. This realignment plan will generate more money for the GHSA because there will be more playoff games, but I still advocate that it will benefit the athletes, coaches by creating more excitement because they have an opportunity to compete against like-sized schools in the playoffs and if the regions are setup properly then travel time and cost will be reduced. Determining playoff seeds may be an issue, but the executive board is made up of coaches and perhaps they can come up with an equitable way to seed schools for the playoffs.
wardenerd
March 21st, 2011
7:53 am
heres the problem. Regular season means little and the seedings mean everything. We all know that the state has always favored Region1 4A so you can bet they will get the high seeds. No more seeding by your region finish.No more region winner plays opposite region 4th place team now seeding takes over. Many schools will not know if they are big or little til the school census comes back. In North Carolina last year some “small” schools with lower census than a “big” school ended up in the big division and the bigger school ended up in the small division. Again opinion seeding and TRAVEL will be considered as they are in NC. Do not go to split divisions . Go to 6 classes or something similar or you will not be happy.
BehindEnemyLines
March 21st, 2011
7:55 am
The only way I can figure the claim of reducing travel costs can possibly be remotely true is by truly going to 4 classifications for the regular season, then magically expanding to 8 for the post-season. That at least seems to be possible, since having larger pools for dividing regions makes it possible to make more geographic matches. In other words, it’s okay for teams to face this alleged disadvantage of size for an entire regular season, just as long as you can get teams with losing records a single playoff game at the end.
James in Athens
March 21st, 2011
8:03 am
Outside Observer knows not what he talks about….
Private Schools do recruit and have $$ for players
that can’t afford to pay- See Calab King- GAC.
Buford, Jefferson and others also recruit and anyone
can go there for a small($600 or so) yearly fee.
I say let the private schools have their own league
and playoffs. There are plenty of them around Atlanta
and North Georgia and let the public schools have a
chance in smaller sports like Golf, Tennis, etc at the
A-AAA level. If you check the state records most of the
smaller sports state titles are won by private schools
in recent years.(Athens Academy, Blessed Trinity, Marist,
Lovett, Westminster, etc)
They have deep pockets let them travel and beat up each other…
GHSA needs to work with the people not the rich Private Schools….
Private Vs Public
March 21st, 2011
8:06 am
Here is an idea…let private schools play other private schools while public schools play other public schools! I have never agreed that private schools should compete with public, they are not the same. A private school has many more financial advantages which offer them more training advantages and as we all know they “recruit” who they want and who they need to get the teams they have!
Wofpacker
March 21st, 2011
8:24 am
Stupid!!!!! Ask anyone who follows high school sports in N.C. It’s all about the money. More teams in the playoffs.
A Conservative Voice
March 21st, 2011
8:25 am
@figures
March 20th, 2011
6:45 pm
Why don’t they just call it what it is…they want to separate private and public schools…period.
To figures – Actually, this is an excellent idea. Private schools have, I believe, been recruiting players from the public school systems for years. This is why they’re always in the thick of things come playoff time; however, they are nice about it……they prefer to call it networking. This activity should be stopped……we need another Tom Murphy to step up to the plate and at least try to equalize the situation for the other schools in the regions in which these private schools participate. All these private schools should be put in a region by themselves to slug it out to see who’s the best recruiter
It’s a unfair advantage they have…..I know it, you know it, the GHSA knows it but is too weak to call these teams on their recruiting practices.
@Outside observer
March 20th, 2011
10:35 pm
Mr. Observer – you have to be extremely naive to believe that private schools don’t give financial aid.
What's all the hoopla about recruiting?
March 21st, 2011
9:06 am
The private schools have the advantage of no school boundaries. So, they recruit kids to play all sports.
No different than Buford College, uh, sorry, Buford High School (and many other public schools) “recruiting” kids to play.
Maybe address the “transfer in” rules??? GHSA refuses to address this issue. No reason to change the classifications until the recruiting issue is resolved.
goodideabut
March 21st, 2011
9:06 am
Great idea except for the championship titles. Numerical titles are not equal, geographical titles are. I and II sound like an order of finish. North and South sound much more absolute, but how long will that last until a State title is demanded?
Outside Observer
March 21st, 2011
9:08 am
I never said there was not financial aid. I believe that is need based though due to the parent’s wages. No one believes that there is not a kid here or there that gets in to a private school because who they are. I can promise you that recruiting happens at public schools just all the time. To transfer in a kid to a public school all you have to do is get their parents a job with the county. See Union Groves wrestling team a couple of years ago. They were masters of it. A lot of public schools recruit, don’t be naive. A lot of public schools have outstanding facilities. Most of your normal private schools don’t have the deep pockets you think they do. Not everyone is Marist or Westminster. There are a ton of small private schools with little budgets like ELCA and Landmark. But if your team does not win blame it on private schools. What are you going to blame it on when public and private schools are separated and your team still doesn’t win? Oh yeah you have already started telling us how the other public schools are recruiting.
James in Athens
Buford, Jefferson and others also recruit and anyone can go there for a small ($600 or so) yearly fee.
Neither are private schools.
GHSA needs to work with the people not the Rich Private Schools (this statement gets to the heart of the problem with you)
GHSA is for all high schools. I thought the people went to private schools also.
I guess as long as you give everyone a trophy then life will be good.
$$$ Talks
March 21st, 2011
9:26 am
Hey War Eagle, you should know that is takes $$$ to win a championship. Oh wait, that never happened. hehehehe
fitzgerald
March 21st, 2011
9:36 am
Tswan hit the nail on the head. This system does work very well in Texas. Perhaps having 956 teams playing 11 man football has something to do with it. There was grumbling in the beginning, but now everyone is happy because more teams at the end of the season have a chance of making the playoffs. Granted, some teams will have losing records but it evens out when the kids still have a chance to be in the playoffs. The GHSA should very seriously consider playing all the playoff games at neutral sites. Texas does this and it works very well. In the 2010 season, Waco had 30 playoff games and I can see Macon area doing the same. People will travel. West Texas teams travel 300-400 miles every weekend to play their opponents. Please give it a try over there in Georgia.
Ricardo Cabeza
March 21st, 2011
9:37 am
They will put lipstick on this pig and even try to get you to kiss it . . .but you’ll still be kissing a pig! As with most everything GHSA does, it will end up costing more, being more unfair, and causing more grief for our student athletes, their coaches, and their parents. Don’t ask me how . . . it just happens.
MRBIGUNS
March 21st, 2011
9:57 am
Of course the cheating schools of Atlanta Metro don’t like it…it offsets all the recruiting that goes on in Atlanta. Buford, GAC, Lovett and the rest of the cheating, recruiting and juice taking schools will have to compete on a closer more level playing field but they still have the upper hand and will continue to cheat to gain those state championships!!!!!!!!
Another Voice
March 21st, 2011
10:01 am
Better solution: Just save the money, cancel all football programs. No need to send multiple buses of players, cheerleaders and band to N. Ga for a game against an opponent of similar size. Put the money into academics.
Frankly, I’m tired of the whining about private vs. public, with the assumption that all recruiting is done by private schools, and that all private schools are flush with money for athletics. You trying to tell me that Buford, Norcross and other large schools aren’t recruiting? BS. Look at Milton’s boy’s basketball team. Sure they clalim that the AAU team all decided to go to enroll there … but you think that coach didn’t encourage them to come as a group? And as for “flush with money,” that may be true of some schools, but I see just as many public schools with huge booster club budgets putting in plenty of money to support the programs. Even in smaller towns, the town pulls together with fund-raising type events (Fish-fries, etc.) to raise money for programs.
And for those who say that public schools have to play up to win … just look at Wesleyan and Marist. Wesleyan was AA for many years and still managed to win multiple state championships in multiple sports. Marist plays up and still does very well.
So let’s just accept that there will always be discrepancies. I say stay with the 5 classification system and just suck it up fellas. Not everyone can win every year, and moving to this participation-award program is stupid.
Better solution would be for GHSA to identify some neutral site locations midway between schools when the competitors are more than 4 hours’ drive apart. Let both teams travel, eliminate home-field advantage, and let’s see which team wins.
Last note – Texas has the class/div system because of the sheer geographic size of the state. If they didn’t schools could end up traveling 12-13 hours to a game.
AVikingFan
March 21st, 2011
10:44 am
I agree with John in Jacksonville. Let’s hear more about it before judging it. However, IMO, I agree some with what Fred said about letting schools compete in one region in football – heck a school only travels to 4 or 5 away games in the regular season in football so travel then would not be as much of an issue – and let them compete in other regions in other sports. In other words, let Camden, Northside, and Warner Robins compete in Region 1-AAAAA in football and in their current region in other sports, ones that have more regular season games. (Yeah yeah, I realize each school has a Varsity, a JV, and a 9th grade team in football, and that does amount to a lot of travel expense, and JV and 9th grade teams do play on school nights. Extra travel for them does create educational issues. And I guess you have to consider 7th and 8th grade teams, and how you would classify them?) Heck, I’d better quit, I’m about to talk myself into liking this GHSA plan afterall. (NOT REALLY!)
Perhaps the people who vote shoould just table this thing and think it out more, and maybe they can then come up with a really good option.
WarEagle
March 21st, 2011
10:46 am
$$$ Talks — Wrong War Eagles — Marist not Auburn.
I Like it...IF
March 21st, 2011
10:50 am
You let the two “champs” play a final game for the overall champion! Dont let there always be a debate which 15-0 AAAAA team was better? Do it on the field!
matt
March 21st, 2011
11:03 am
They need to do something. They also need to group city and private schools together and let them compete against eachother. Recruiting puts teams at a MUCH higher level than their small public school counter parts.
GED's are available
March 21st, 2011
11:28 am
The GHSA should require all leader members to obtain at least a GED before holding a position! These 5th grade educations have got to go.
Oh, before I forget, Go Huskies!!! LOL
JC
March 21st, 2011
11:39 am
Trust me there are plenty of public schools that do their fair share of recruiting. Just as there are many private schools who don’t recruit. Separating the private schools from the public schools is a poor idea. Just check with North Carolina and you will see that virtually all the good athletes will then leave the public schools to go to privates. 75% of the top basketball players in North Carolina attend private schools. By removing the private schools, you will lower the level of competition. Possibly one option is to follow the Tennessee model which has a separate division for any schools who provide financial aid.
A Conservative Voice
March 21st, 2011
11:54 am
@Another Voice
March 21st, 2011
10:01 am
Better solution: Just save the money, cancel all football programs. No need to send multiple buses of players, cheerleaders and band to N. Ga for a game against an opponent of similar size. Put the money into academics.
Another voice – You do what you’re advocating and you’ll completely rid high schools of sports. Football is the main revenue generating sport and all other teams depend on this support. You’re trying to mix apples and oranges – School tax revenue does not fund sports!!!!!
Sabrina Tillman... I can suck a golf ball through a hose
March 21st, 2011
12:31 pm
California does the same thing. You wouldn’t expect Beverly Hills to play Sacramento High beacuse the travel cost would be to much. That’s why they have the Class A and B champs.
Research b4 u Post
March 21st, 2011
2:02 pm
For all you idiots out there the GHSA does not deal with the education part of schools. So quit posting that they should work on teacher pay and better schools and things of that nature that’s not what they deal with. That’s what the Georgia Department of Education is for.
Second most if not all the people in charge at the GHSA have higher educational degrees than all you mouth breathers that post over and over on this blog. And many of them have accomplished things athletically and professionally that most of you just dream about.
Is this reclassification idea stupid, YES, but that’s up to those good ole boys on the commitee. So get off the computer and go find a job, and if you have a job do some work
Tdawg
March 21st, 2011
2:44 pm
Sabrina comparing California to Georgia is kind of a far fetch, don’t you think? Cal. is four times the size of GA. and almost 3 times the population. In other words travel in Cal. is of a much greater concern than it is in GA.
As far as I see the biggest concern to most Georgia high schools is in the class A and AA schools where the rual towns are at a decided disadvantage to the city and priviate schools who cherry pick athletes from a much larger population. Make these schools play up in classification and things will take care of themselves. I just don’t see it being that big of a deal amongst the higher classifications. AAA may have that problem before too long. Please don’t go to this 4/8 crap. If you GHSA members are to stupid to understand what it is that most of the schools are asking of you, then just leave it alone.
Big Mick
March 21st, 2011
2:51 pm
Have the guts to take the OHIO system of points and playoffs. You can play teams near to you if you like and even out of state teams. This will let the big schools with boster money and talent to travel around beat teams from out of state and make Ga high school football look good. The big schools with less talent can play down to teams that have the same level of talent. Face it to make the playoffs you will still have to play some schools your size. If you don’t you probably are not playoff caliber anyways. Lets not forget when teams with losing records were making the football playoffs for a few years. This plan is a Win Win for everyone travel if you have the money stay close to home if you don’t. This would be an AD’s dream playing close to home neighborhood rivials as well. Football is the cash cow here in GA so why pretend its not let Basketball and the rest have their own plan or follow football but I don’t belive this region problem exsits in soccer or swimming. Those sports find a way to match best on best and they don’t worry about class size. Oh and those non-manly football coaches in Ga, Ohio plays most of the playoff games at neutral sites so quit your crying about your hotdog stand sales GSHA pays well if the dome is even half filled. And one last parting shot are you saying that you have to have “home field” in the playoffs to win then why are you even coaching go out and find some big boy pants and go coach something else. In life you don’t always have “home field” teach your kids a life lesson you so often compare football to ! ! !
Azbrave
March 21st, 2011
5:28 pm
This method has also used in Arizona for many years without major distractions.
Cross Country Runner
March 21st, 2011
7:58 pm
The only way I would like this is if after the two divisions had playoffs, they went to further playoffs for the whole classification. I do not want to work hard to achieve something, then only get to say I’m the Class 2A Division I champion. That would not be what I was working for.
Dr. C
March 21st, 2011
8:25 pm
I don’t normally share my opinion in blogs but I couldn’t resist-
One error in the story was that Tom Murphy was angered by recruitment of out of state talent and instituted the multiplier for private schools- the truth is that Murphy was annoyed by Bremen continually losing to private schools in the state finals in… DEBATE!!!
Regarding recruitment- who is really the culprit? or the biggest offender? we see it at the private school level… but Miltons’ basketball team, transfer rules for Buford in Gwinnett county, the total joke of the quarterback carosel in suburban Atlanta every year , needless to say the continual motion of basketball talent through the large public school systems- To me this is at least as offensive as the worst “recruiters” in the private schools!