The Georgia High School Association takes questions about the controversial ending to basketball playoff game (UPDATED)
- Related: SEE THE VIDEO. YOU BE THE REF and make the call in the controversial ending to the Milton-Norcross playoff game. Click here.
- Believe it or not? Milton defeats Norcross with time expired. Click here.
The state’s basketball community is still buzzing about the controversial ending to Milton’s 52-51 win over Norcross in the state playoffs. A referee determined that Milton’s Julian Royal was fouled while attempting a rebound at the same time as the final buzzer sounded. Royal was awarded two foul shots with time expired and sank both, with the second one winning it for Milton.
Ernie Yarbrough, the GHSA’s director of basketball officials, spoke with the AJC’s Michael Carvell on Monday:
Q. How can you have a foul called with no time left on the clock?
A. Here’s the problem with high schools. You don’t have a TV instant replay like you do in college where you can go back and look at it. (On time being expired), in high school basketball, the rules do allow for simultaneous actions to take place. So, not being there, I spoke with the GHSA representative (Henry County’s Chuck Miller) who was there, and he told me the officials handled it correctly.
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Q. Can you explain the turn of events?
A. (Miller) said the officials got together and discussed what happened, and the time sequence of when it happened … in fact, (Miller) said they came to the scorer’s table and asked the clock operator — Which was first? The whistle or the horn? And the timer told them the whistle was first.
Q. Does Norcross have any recourse?
A. No, anytime it’s an officials’ judgment, there are no protests allowed in any GHSA sports. The only recourse they have, and it doesn’t soothe the pain of losing the game, is that if a school feels like the officials ruled in error, then they can submit an unsatisfactory officiating report, which would be reviewed and ruled upon by me. But it’s not going to change the outcome of the game.
Q. Does the GHSA penalize referees for bad calls?
A. We don’t penalize for poor judgment, but we do for misapplication of rules. In this case, there was not a misapplication of rules because no rule was violated.
Q. Were you aware of the controversy?
A. Yes, (Miller) called me immediately after the game and informed me what happened and that it was handled correctly. Whether the foul that occurred before the free throws was a good call, I can’t tell from the video I’ve seen. But I can tell you that the official was much closer to the action than me, and felt like the call needed to be made.
+ + +
We have video of the the final seconds to the controversial ending to the Milton-Norcross game from Saturday’s Class AAAAA quarterfinals.
Let’s set up the scene: Norcross was winning by a point with 10.2 seconds left in regulation. Milton drove down the court and missed two shots, and Norcross celebrates as if it has won. However, a referee determined that Milton’s Julian Royal was fouled while attempting to rebound somewhere around the time of the final buzzer.
You know the rest of the story: Royal makes both foul shots to give Milton the 52-51 win and, more importantly, a berth in the state semifinals.
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139 comments Add your comment
d
March 8th, 2010
5:14 pm
first
d
March 8th, 2010
5:15 pm
BTW..You cant have a foul with no time left. It is an imposssiblity. If time expired the game was over. Even the GHSA can or should see that. I dont have a dog in the fight, but common sense is there for a reason.
stw
March 8th, 2010
5:21 pm
Lets face it..we probably get what we pay for. These refs make about $50 and what they do is done for the love of the game.They do their best so accept it. Sorry people, but this is not a perfect world.
ftw
March 8th, 2010
5:40 pm
regardless of if the foul should have been called, if they say the whistle came before the horn (which it did) then they should have put at least .1 seconds on the clock. if they can’t tell how much time, they should have at least known it was more than 0. even if they put .5 seconds back on the clock at least you give both teams a fighting chance.
G-Lyin
March 8th, 2010
5:57 pm
Based on the quality of officiating seen this year, some people are doing it for the money – with little, if any, respect or love for the game.
Mike the Ref
March 8th, 2010
6:06 pm
if you feel the quality of officiating has been poor this year, the GHSA has a camp for officials the first weekend in June usually at Ga Tech, feel free to show up with a shirt and whistle and join in!
stw
March 8th, 2010
6:18 pm
G-Lyin: Just one question–What is your officiating experience in “ANY” sport?? Usually the biggest complainers are those who have never played an organized sport..
Ron
March 8th, 2010
6:18 pm
It all comes down to the referee blowing the call. You should never call a foul at that time of the game, unless it is a flagrant. They blew the call. That is the honest the god truth.
Some Sense
March 8th, 2010
6:18 pm
Really simple, guys. Call should never have been made, and the guy knows it.
stw
March 8th, 2010
6:25 pm
RON: If it’s a foul in the first minute then its a foul at the end…SOME SENSE; Too bad you don’t have any common sense.
Idiotrefs
March 8th, 2010
6:26 pm
There was a mispplication of rules I heard. They did not allow the coach to call a timeout before the free throws because they said time expired. They were wrong!
Big Mac
March 8th, 2010
6:35 pm
I officiate high school basketball. If the whistle was before the horn then time should have been put on the clock. Atleast .3 of a sec because that would have given the other team atleast a chance. You cannot get a try or tip with less than .3 of a second. There were a lot of other things that went on that caused Norcross to lose that game(turnovers, missed free throws, ect.). Fouls should be called at all times of the game, beginning or end. Also, when officials make calls, they will be 50/50 with the fans. One teams likes it, other team doesn’t.
stw
March 8th, 2010
6:44 pm
BIG MAC: Could you quote the section of the GHSA basketball rulebook that states that at least .3 of a second should have been put on the clock. You can’t because its not in there…If that’s the case then you would have to put more time on the clock after every whistle. High school makes no allowance for the fraction of a second between whistle and clock stoppage.
bigdog
March 8th, 2010
7:13 pm
Well, as Ive state before, Norcross got the shaft on that one, but historically they have benefitted from a lot of questionable calls at honme (specifically the mauling of JJ Hickson for his put back win in 07 — the year they went on to win state). It all evens out in the end.
GssiT
March 8th, 2010
7:24 pm
Foul before the horn. .3 on the clock is what is done in all the mandatory “camps” that these officials must attend to have a chance at a state tournament game. Having to ask the scorer which came first is “passing the buck”. One official is responsible for that last second shot. Why then did two officials wipe off the attempt. Ernie’s comments are all hearsay. Why not go directly to the Chucker?
Biff Pocaroba
March 8th, 2010
7:45 pm
What a case of stupidity. If the whistle was heard before the buzzer, then there was time left on the clock. Mr. Carvell, please follow up with Ernie Yarbrough and let him try to cover this up some more. It sounds like he’s Frank Wren trying to explain a trade.
Michael Carvell
March 8th, 2010
8:20 pm
First of all, I want to thank Mr. Yarbrough for taking questions on this topic. He was not at the game, and did his best to provide insight. With that said, however, I THINK IT WAS A BAD CALL, ONE OF THE WORST I’VE SEEN IN MY 25 YEARS OF COVERING SPORTS. I know referees are human, and they do make mistakes (like all of us). Most referees do it for the love of the game, surely not the money. But this ref, in my humble opinion, blew it. In my humble opinion, it was either a “no call” or time expired.
Michael Carvell
March 8th, 2010
8:26 pm
A few things … what really bothers me is that the person who had the FINAL SAY … on this epic finish … of all people … was the CLOCK OPERATOR, according to the on-site GHSA representative. I was at the game. IT WAS SO LOUD I could barely hear the person next to me. Yet the clock person, who was 50 feet away from the play, heard the whistle before the horn????? I respectfully find that hard to believe.
North Fulton Sports Guy
March 8th, 2010
8:35 pm
I’ll offer this, everyone on press row (15 feet away from the play) thought it was a foul. But we didn’t all agree if it came before or after the whistle. The video on youtube was shot from the upper deck and really doesn’t do the foul justice.
By the way, maybe Henry County’s Chuck Miller wasn’t actually paying attention at all because the GHSA doesn’t even know what the final score was (no knock on you Carvell, you got your score from them).
North Fulton Sports Guy
March 8th, 2010
8:37 pm
BTW, Carvell, what side of press row were you on, two guys next to me and myself thought foul, so I shouldn’t say everyone.
clayton lifer
March 8th, 2010
8:42 pm
If we play games at college arenas that uses the technology that the whistle stops the horn (most all colleges use this) why can’t the GHSA implement this in quarterfinal, semi-final and final action? This would have immediately solved the problem because the clock was a 00 and the game appears to be over when he blew the whistle.
He should have swalled the whistle but life will go on.
bigben
March 8th, 2010
8:48 pm
One thing that no one has mentioned is the fact that the game was stopped TWO SEPARATE times during the 4th quarter due to issues with fouls and the official book.
TWO SEPARATE TIMES the official book (GHSA appointed) said Jeremy Lamb had fouled out and BOTH times the official book was corrected by the Norcross book-keeper AND the Milton book-keeper.
For the two best teams in the state and two of the best in the Southeast to have to play in the quarterfinals is bad enough. For them to have to play in the quarterfinals and then have to put up with such sorry officials is a travesty.
bigben
March 8th, 2010
8:49 pm
Also, why did the red light around the backboard NOT go off at the end of the game. I know it works because it went off on the same basket when the SAME official waved off Jeremy Lamb’s layup at the buzzer.
WHY DID THE RED LIGHT NOT GO OFF AT THE END OF THE GAME?????
NOTCROSS very sad
March 8th, 2010
9:00 pm
Notcross is a very sad person. Either A) an opposing coach that Norcross beat repeatedly, B) the referee in question, or C) David Boyd himself (as he has repeatedly found his way onto messageboards)
Brent
March 8th, 2010
9:01 pm
I am just wondering how much the GHSA is paying stw to keep posting stupid comments. The game is over, the ref blew the call if you have seen the video is obvious. However it is not going to change them game. I am a NHS fan and I am pretty sure they are the worst free throw shooting team in the state. Honestly I think they coach should go for not teaching free throw shooting. He is definitely no Eddie Martin.
Squilldog
March 8th, 2010
9:02 pm
I happened to be right next to that basket and I can say as an unbiased observer that that was one of the worst calls I’ve ever seen. You can’t make that call at that point in the game. In the first quarter, MAYBE, but at the buzzer on a play that wouldn’t have resulted in a score…just awful. The Milton player would have never gotten a shot off in time. It was pretty much a scramble and you decide the game on a rebounding call? Nothing to call that but AWFUL. Sorry Norcross. You made the plays down the stretch and deserved to win.
Michael Carvell
March 8th, 2010
9:09 pm
North Fulton Sports Guy, excellent points my friend. As we both know, it was a physical game, lots of contact between both teams. If anything, I thought the Milton kid who took the final shot was clearly fouled but that was not called. He got smacked. And then to call a foul while Milton’s Julian Royal was battling for the rebound at the buzzer, well that was a “no call” to me. Maybe if he was shooting it, or trying to tip it in. But no, not while scrambling for a rebound at the buzzer. (On another note, Mr. Royal, those were two of the most clutch free throws I’ve ever seen. Congrats big guy).
Reality
March 8th, 2010
9:10 pm
Ok, to the person writing this article I would like to point out that in no way, any league, division, level of basketball, replay or not, can you end a game with free throws. This is physically impossible. So some of your credibility is lost in stating that. Secondly, one of the main rules, if not THE main rule of refing is that a call you make should not decide the outcome of the game. Thirdly,watching video of this makes it fairly clear that the call was made after the buzzer. Due to all of these facts, the game should be overturned due to what you call “unsatifactory refing.” However, since you say this won’t happen for whatever reason, the most fair and just way of ending this is to simply play the game over Tuesday or Wednesday night. If Milton really is the better team, they will win for real, no questions asked. You cannot allow a team to move on and probably win the state championship based on this technical catastrophe. If they are permitted to move on ithout overturining the call or replaying the game, their championship will be worthless. And I know the Milton fans want a legit championship. you re the best tea, you will win the game again. PLAY THE GAME OVER! IT”S FAIR IN EVERY WAY!
Reality
March 8th, 2010
9:15 pm
And literally, it is SO clear watching this video that the call is made after the clock hits 0.0… Game over, Norcross wins, call cannot be made. Just ridiculous GHSA if you don’t do something about this.
Michael Carvell
March 8th, 2010
9:16 pm
Another thing that bothered me is that this same ref who made the Milton-Norcross call at the buzzer ALSO made another huge call later that same day in FOURTH QUARTER of the Central Gwinnett vs. McEachern game. The score was tied, and he whistled CG’s coach for a technical. Fortunately for CG, they used it as a rallying point to win the game. For one ref to make two big calls like that the same night, well that was unusual in my experiences.
Mike
March 8th, 2010
9:17 pm
the clock keeper heard the whistle- it’s a cover
Reality
March 8th, 2010
9:18 pm
And literally, if you have eyes that work, it’s so obvious that the call is made AFTER the buzzer, this means game over, Norcross wins.
Michael Carvell
March 8th, 2010
9:20 pm
Reality, Mr. Yarbrough said “(On time being expired), in high school basketball, the rules do allow for simultaneous actions to take place.” … I can only go by what the GHSA says.
Truth
March 8th, 2010
9:23 pm
Let’s think about this GHSA: As a timer, you are told what? To stop the clock when you hear a whistle. So, the clock should have been stopped when the CALL was made, not when the foul was committed. And, as this video shows as clear as daylight, the ref MAKES THE CALL AFTER THE CLOCK HITS 0.0. You cannot call a foul, and furthermore award freethows to a call that was made after the game had ended.
Reality
March 8th, 2010
9:25 pm
Michael, even if GHSA wants to make up bogus rules, it doesn’t even apply here, because the foul was after the game was over. You can’t make a call after the game is over.
Brent?
March 8th, 2010
9:28 pm
the Norcross coach should be canned due to freethrows? No Eddie Martin?
The three state championship teams at Norcross coached by E.Martin were terrible freethrow shooting teams. Demercy, Neismith, LAWAL? They were HORRIBLE free throw shooters.
I hope you were just kidding.
Michael Carvell
March 8th, 2010
9:28 pm
Mike, I don’t think it’s a coverup. Milton won this game, and heck they probably will win state. HOWEVER, I do find it very interesting that the biggest decision of this game … on whether or not the foul was called before, during or after the final buzzer … was made by the clock operator, who again was 50 feet away in a VERY, VERY LOUD ATMOSPHERE.
Mike
March 8th, 2010
9:34 pm
Mike, he is justifying the ref’s call by saying the scorekeeper heard it. don’t be naive. He is covering and justifying.
Michael Carvell
March 8th, 2010
9:36 pm
Something else that was very fascinating was … during all the confusion when the officials were deciding what to do … the Norcross coach acted like the perfect gentlemen. Nothing but class. He put his faith in the officiating crew and let it be. Maybe I’m wrong here, but I think every other coach on the face of the planet would’ve been screaming, hollering, dancing, jumping … doing anything possible to convince the referees that his team had been wronged. Agree or disagree?
Meanwhile, Milton’s coach sure did make a case for his player getting fouled, TO DAVID BOYD’S CREDIT. The referee who made the call was right next to the Milton bench.
Mike
March 8th, 2010
9:37 pm
Mike,
I agree no fight. can you imagine the Celtics of the eighties with Bird being quiet. They were the biggest whiners ever.
Notcross
March 8th, 2010
9:41 pm
1. The foul occurred during regulation
2. ref in position saw the foul and CALLED IT
doesn’t really matter when the whistle blew and the game ends when the refs say the game ends not at the horn exactly what the refs said happened happened
“The explanation I got from the ref was ‘We don’t have replay, so there is no way to say how much time we should put on there.’ He explained it the best he could.”
Mike
March 8th, 2010
9:43 pm
Notcross, you are a homer and I doubt very much that you ever played
Reality
March 8th, 2010
9:44 pm
Notcross, you are simply wrong. The call is made when the offical makes the call, not when the foul occurs, and since the call was clearly made after the clock reaches 0.0, the game was over before the call was made. This means no call was ever made during the game and no free throws can be awarded, or a foul put in the scorebook.
Michael Carvell
March 8th, 2010
9:49 pm
A few other things … Mr. Yarbrough said this officiating crew was a veteran crew that had called state championships before. He also said that none of the referees had worked a Milton or Norcross game this year prior to this one.
bigdog
March 8th, 2010
9:54 pm
Michael, I agree in spirit that that call is rarely made, and maybe Norcross should have been given .3 seconds on the clock, and maybe a timeout for Norcross should have been awarded, but a foul is a foul (unless its a fowl)….’nuff said. Maybe the Norcross kid should have tried to CONTEST the shot instead of just grabbing the player. I think its a bad habbit that our young players have gotten into: just grabbing instead of tring to defend. A grab is a foul, no matter what time is on the clock.
Michael Carvell
March 8th, 2010
9:56 pm
Bigdog: Thanks for your post. No shot was being contested. Royal was fighting for the rebound, not in the act of shooting.
Notcross
March 8th, 2010
9:59 pm
“The call is made when the offical makes the call, ”
Words of wisdom to live by from Reality
Central Gwinnett Coach
March 8th, 2010
10:00 pm
The technical called against me was a poor call. All I said to the ref was that he blew the call in the Milton-Norcross game.
Reality
March 8th, 2010
10:02 pm
Notcross, is that you giving in to justice?
Michael Carvell
March 8th, 2010
10:04 pm
“Central Gwinnett Coach” … that may be the funniest comment of the MONTH.
bigdog
March 8th, 2010
10:09 pm
Michael, ou’re right, no shot was being taken, but a grab is still a foul, even if you’re just tring to secure the ball. They call it during the game evertime.
Reality
March 8th, 2010
10:11 pm
But a foul called after the buzzer isn’t really a foul… The game is over…Explain to me how that is wrong.
Notcross
March 8th, 2010
10:13 pm
no listen to your self “The call is made when the offical makes the call, ” well duh
so according to you nothing matters after the buzzer is that correct?
Michael Carvell
March 8th, 2010
10:21 pm
ON A RELATED SUBJECT: A few people have suggested to me that the “honorable thing” for Milton to do was, after they made the first foul shot to tie the game, was to MISS THE SECOND ONE ON PURPOSE, because of the questionable call, to send the game to overtime ON PURPOSE. Again, not my idea, but from people who emailed me. Now if I was Milton’s coach, would I have done that? Heck no, because I didn’t call the foul, the official did. Would any coach have done that? None that I know … Then again, had Milton’s followed these “suggestions,” it probably would be on CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS, THE TONIGHT SHOW, and preparing for an ESPN “Outside the Lines” Special dedicated to the moment. I will give you people who made that suggestion that … But no way, I take the foul shots and end it.
By the rules
March 8th, 2010
10:32 pm
If any coach would’ve had the “Outside the Lines” moment by having their player miss the last ft it would be Boyd. The guy’s a class act.
Kevin The Ref
March 8th, 2010
10:43 pm
Idiotrefs
March 8th, 2010
6:26 pm
There was a mispplication of rules I heard. They did not allow the coach to call a timeout before the free throws because they said time expired. They were wrong!
LOl people like you crack me up, By rule you CANNOT call a timeout if there is no time on the clock. If this would of happen in collegwe they would of used instant replay but this is high school and you by judgement of the official. Id love to see any of yall do what we do. Please come to our camps and btw know you the rules, signals, and know were to position your self in a 3 person crew. We have camps in june at Georgia tech, Georgia State, FSU, and Clemson. Also we have other GHSA camps. Please come and try and do what we do.
Have a nice day
North Fulton Sports Guy
March 8th, 2010
11:39 pm
Carvell, completely agree on the clock operator point. Letting the clock operator decide the game is almost as stupid as someone making a movie about a hot tub that’s actually a time machine.
If the officials are going to ask the clock operator to decide the game, why not just take a straw poll of everyone in the first five rows, they saw and heard the same thing.
On a side note, here’s an interesting stat from the game:
Length of game: 32 minutes
Milton trailed for 59 seconds in the entire game. (This means they led for 31 minutes and one second)
Whether or not Norcross got screwed, I thought MIlton was more impressive overall.
Michael Carvell
March 9th, 2010
12:00 am
North Fulton Sports Guy: I was NOT impressed by Milton that particular night. I had high expectations for seeing Shannon Scott (Ohio State commitment) and was baffled when he missed foul shots in the fourth quarter that would’ve iced the game. Then, he lost track of time (according to Boyd) and hastily launched a 3-pointer from 30 feet, as if he was shooting at the buzzer.
With that said, I think Milton is easily the most talented team in the state. I think they will win state. And I think mastermind winner aka coach Boyd will rally his troops by telling them the whole world vs Milton after all the negative remarks from the Norcross game. He probably has most of the comments already posted in the locker room. If so, Shannon Scott, show me you’re the best player in the state.
Big Mac
March 9th, 2010
12:20 am
STW you are an idiot. It is called game management. And one observer was correct. We are taught at camp that if there is a foul to end a game as it was in this case, we should put time back on the clock.
bigdog
March 9th, 2010
12:20 am
Reality, the foul was called after the buzzer only because it was committed with less than a second before the buzzer sounded. Its just the natural sequence of things: it takes time for the ref to see the foul, raise his hand, draw in air, blow the whistle. This cannot be done in .1 second. Perhaps the said ref had to make a mental calculation, esp since the foul on the shot was not called, having to weigh the consequences of making such a gutsy decision against letting them play it out. Reality, think of it this way: lets say the foul occured the slightest fraction of a second before the game ended, it stands to reason that the whistle won’t be blown until after the buzzer sounds(maybe even a second or two afterwards), but there’s no way to get a histle blown before the end of the game if the foul occurs with less than a second on the clock. But that fraction of a second prior to 00.0 IS still part of the game, and a foul is a foul no matter when it is called, and no matter how short or long it takes the ref to get the whistle blowing.
bigdog
March 9th, 2010
12:22 am
I do agree that .3 sec should have been put back on the clock, and that timeouts should have been allowed.
xab
March 9th, 2010
12:31 am
This discussion about the game outcome is a good example of why we should eliminate HS sports. Let them have intermurals, for exercise and entertainment.
bigdog
March 9th, 2010
12:33 am
last thing and I’m gone. There are frequently delays in calling fouls on players, much to the chagrin of the fans. man times a ref will wait a second or two to see how a shot is effected before making the call….is this right?, mabe, mabe not, but through their actions they are admitting that not every foul is called simultaneously as it occurs. There’s some mental processing that has to occur, for whatever reasons. Bottom line, the ref felt that a fould was committed, in the video (admittedly not a great vantage point)there appears to be some contact (visually) prior to the 00.0 mark, and lets face it, its all really doesnt count (subjective anyway. So there it is, makes for a great discussion: should a call made just after time runs out (due to the lag reasons above) not be allowed. If so, then the last 1 second of any game really doesn’t count (with respect to fouls). Mabe they should change to last quarter of every game to 7 min, 59 seconds.
Worst Analogy Ever
March 9th, 2010
12:48 am
North Fulton Sports Guy: “Letting the clock operator decide the game is almost as stupid as someone making a movie about a hot tub that’s actually a time machine.”
That analogy is about as clever as making up an analogy that’s not really an analogy that doesn’t relate to the issue at hand. … Please, don’t use that in any columns. Please. I beg you to resist … the … urge.
Next time, try something like, “Letting the clock operator decide the game is like letting Spike Lee decide if Al Horford’s basket was taken before or after the buzzer.”
Andrew
March 9th, 2010
1:10 am
Based on the video, time expired. That should have been a no-call. Granted, HS refs do not have instant replay, but 2 of the 3 refs felt it was a no-call, so how can 1 ref overrule the other 2?
Bad call; Norcross got jobbed…
UGA75
March 9th, 2010
2:13 am
I started officiating HS Basketball right out of HS. I was a loud mouth fan riding officials at a JV game, with the game decided and 2 minutes left the head official handed me his whistle and said anyone so obnoxious should be able to do the job better than them. I took the challenge, and made a bigger fool of myself for the next 30 seconds or so. The Official asked me after the game to come to a meeting and that started me on a 34 year career which included HS and up to Southern Conference BB.
I also Umpired Baseball and Fast Pitch softball and between the two sports there was and largely remains a common thread. No game where athletes sweat and bleed should be decided by an official, umpire, referee. Unfortunately we have a lot of HS Officials today that honestly believe that people come to see them work and that they should be the center of attention. During the Milton/Norcross game it was clear the Officials were not in control which is their only job. The other two officials tried to get the 3rd guy to admit the whistle was after the buzzer, but he insisted, he wanted the attention, and he was wrong from a competitive perspective, he decided the game not the players, and worse from an officiating perspective where he became the story. This strokes his ego, and will cause him to do it again if GHSA doesn’t fire him, because people who become enamored of the spotlight are never going to allow themselves to be pushed back into obscurity which is where all we officials belong. A perfectly officiated game, in any sport, is one where people can’t recall there were officials on the field. Seldom happens, perfection is rare, but showboating Officials have no place above Rec. Ball.
opie
March 9th, 2010
3:00 am
Let me first say, I have no dog in this fight. I agree w/ UGA75 that the best officials control the game & yet remain anonymous to the fans. Your job is to control the game and not let one team or another gain an advantage. Period.
I was not there and the replay is “iffy” at best. Saying that, the comments that you don’t make that call at the end of the game are ignorant. IF the referee makes that call at the beginning of the game, he/she makes that call at the end of the game.
Not knowing the referee in question, I can’t comment on his motives. This much is clear, if he blew his whistle then it is his call to make. Right or wrong. I have received more than my share of technicals from refs that made bad calls. Unfortunately, it is their judgement.
Like many other professions, there is a lack of qualified applicants. I feel for the players, fans, parents, coaches and supporters of Norcross. That is not how you want to go out, especially if Walton is the “most talented” team. You earned a chance to beat them.
My only question, admittedly I didn’t know this rule, is that why was Norcross not allowed to call a timeout? If a foul was called, then whatever amount of time should be put on the clock. If there’s time on the clock, then a timeout should’ve been awarded.
Saying that, there was no real chance, given the player hit the free throws, that Norcross could’ve scored a basket.
Very unfortunate and I do believe based on my, personal experience, that there are too many refs that are in it for their own personal glory. Not saying this was the case, but if you have time to ask the score keeper which came first, you’ve got time to assess the situation and make the right call. If a foul was committed w/in the time frame of the game, then: (a) you award a timeout and (b) you give Norcross time to inbound the ball.
WeWonULost-GetOverIt
March 9th, 2010
4:01 am
Clear foul at .3 seconds. Great call. And call did not win the game. Our player still had to make his free throws.
That said..he made ‘em. Way to STROKE those free throws! Booyah! We win! Hahaha..ya’ll are a bunch of losers crying about a foul. We put it on you.
Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba…I’M LOVIN’ IT! OH YEAH!
Benny
March 9th, 2010
5:26 am
Wah! Whine! Here is how it works. Game is over. Get on with your life. Having coached for 40 years there is no right or wrong call. It was made. Why not talk about something important like changing the color of the rims? GAME OVER.
Mike
March 9th, 2010
6:22 am
The analogy that I think best fits this call is the one we saw this year when UGA played LSU and the split end was called for “excessive celebration”. he was technically correct and it was one of the poorest calls I have ever seen and I believe it cost UGA the game. I probably think most of you thought that was a terrible call. You can make the “right call” and it can still be bad in context. Remember, that crew was suspended after a similar bonehead calllater in the season.
Spots Fan
March 9th, 2010
6:30 am
Unfortunately, human error does occur in sports. Then there are the times when the officating just is plain bad. Try watching a soccer game. The refs there are usually football refs and don’t have a clue. At least this guy made an attempt to ask the time keeper.
brick
March 9th, 2010
6:48 am
I watched the clip several times and couldn’t tell if the foul occured before or after the horn, so no it isn’t obvious. As for as officials can’t make a call like that at the end of the game, why not, if they felt a foul was committed they should make the call, doesn’t matter if its the first trip down the floor or the last. You can’t play with one set of rules for 47 minutes and a different set for 1 minute. If the officials were calling that particular play a foul the entire game, then its a foul with .01 sec left.
tj
March 9th, 2010
6:49 am
Michael, regarding the call, I do not believe an official should ever blow the whistle in a scramble situation at the end of a game like the Milton-Norcross game unless the foul is deemed to be particularly egregious or intentional in nature. As for you annointing Milton the State Championship, they will have to go through a pretty good Newton County team(30-1) that has flown under the radar all season long.
Idiotrefs
March 9th, 2010
7:31 am
Kevin The Ref ….Kevin you crack me up. Learn the rules, read 5-6-2 exception 2. Playing time has not expired. YOU CAN CALL TIME OUT! Your camps teach you great stuff I see..
NoLion
March 9th, 2010
7:46 am
This ref made the call against Norcross, and the tech foul against Central Gwinnett’s coach, because he had instructions from GHSA to make sure NO TEAMS FROM GWINNETT GO TO THE STATE FINALS. People this is an issue with GHSA and no one in the state will admit to it. GHSA wants other teams in the finals other than Norcross, Wheeler etc. and they put this joker in to make sure it happens. Why do you think the brackets are designed the way they are? to guarantee 2 teams from the South GA against 2 teams from the North GA area. Its BS, having the best teams in the state playing in the 2-3 round of the state tournament. I don’t have a dog in the Milton-Norcross debate but it is clear, you can’t call a foul when there is no time on the clock. 2 refs called Game over, 1 called foul and at the scorers table 2-1 vote rules, THAT’S WHY THERE ARE 3 REF’S AT A GAME AND NOT AN EVEN #. GHSA is crooked as the day is long. GHSA can overrule the game, Why? because they make the rules,… They should do the right thing but they won’t.
Old ref
March 9th, 2010
7:47 am
Do we have referees in the stand that say what should have been a no call or have we been listening to too many tv games where announcers try to determine what they think. If it is a foul in the first quarter it is as foul at the end of the game. No place for no calls that will also determine the winner of a game. That leads to partiality from a referee. That is another problem you do not want to involve referee decisions.
North Fulton Sports Guy
March 9th, 2010
7:55 am
Carvell: I didn’t think either team was especially impressive on the night, Dai JonParker and Shannon Scott both missed pivotal free throws down the stretch, not to mention Lamb was off for most of the game. I was only saying that Milton was the more impressive team in the game (just as if I watched a Knicks/Nets game, as bad as the teams are, I would leave the game more impressed with one of the teams)
BTW: I thought Norcross got screwed on the Lamb basket at the end of the first half that was waved off. Kind of unreal to have two big calls like that at the end of each half and they both went against Norcross.
Worst Analogy Ever: My analogy is probably number two for worst ever, I think number one has to be UNC’s Roy Williams comparing his team’s season to the disaster in Haiti.
mt. dew
March 9th, 2010
8:08 am
To Kevin the ref – the rule states CONSECUTIVE timeouts may not be called after the expiration of time in the 4th quarter or overtime. Certainly a team can call ONE timeout.
An Old HS Sports Fan
March 9th, 2010
8:19 am
IT WAS SO LOUD I could barely hear the person next to me. Yet the clock person, who was 50 feet away from the play, heard the whistle before the horn????? I respectfully find that hard to believe.
My wife can hear a pin drop or a sharp retort at a hundred feet……the above sounds plausible to me
northside
March 9th, 2010
8:32 am
you guys must be blind he was fouled before it hit double zeros but its the kids fault for fouling him. even he was all alone by himself he wouldnt of had enough time to shoot most likley. the norcross killed bailed him out but i do agree you have to put .3 or .2 back on the clock. also if that was college or pro we most likley see a no call right there but hey it is high school
Notcross
March 9th, 2010
8:33 am
Mr. Carvell,
You are in a position of influence and dead wrong in calling out and trashing a 16 yr old kid who has lead his team to the state championship game as a SOPHOMORE last year and will probably do it again this year. BTW he is humble and has never claimed to be the best player in the state. that’s just WRONG WRONG WRONG!
Mike
March 9th, 2010
8:41 am
notcross stop being such a homer
Milton Backer
March 9th, 2010
8:44 am
Here is one thing everyone on this board can agree on…..
The coverage of high school basketball, by The AJC is god AWFUL
Case in point Mr. Carvell how many times have been out to see Milton play this year? At one point we were ranked 7th in the nation(lets not debate accuracy it was UAS Today) and based on your comments you never made the 30 minute drive to watch them play during the season. How many times did you see West Lake, McEachern, Walton, Wheerler or any of the top ranked teams play?
Oh wait too busy following high school football in FEBURARY By the way i see there are still football signing photos on the high school sports web page where are the basketball signing photos?
Notcross
March 9th, 2010
8:45 am
Come on Mike we are talking about a 16 yr old KID that he trashes after watching him play 1 game
Mike
March 9th, 2010
9:23 am
Notcross and all you who are saying it’s a good call. Were you celebrating the “good call” when the ref’s called the UGA split receiver for excessive celebration that cost UGA the game this year. After all that was by the “book” That crew eventually got suspended.
Notcross
March 9th, 2010
9:54 am
Not a valid analogy that was the celebration did not interfere with play # 25 isn’t even going for the ball just preventing royal from scoring while the clock is running huge huge difference
Mike
March 9th, 2010
9:59 am
very valid analogy. Royal was not tipping the ball. look at the replay. you must not actually play basketball if you think he was shooting.
Mike
March 9th, 2010
10:02 am
and he wasn’t called for fouling in the act of shooting.
northside
March 9th, 2010
10:04 am
? how does that matter? no he was not shooting but he was clearly pulled down with time on the clock, the ref called the foul after the game was over but the foul did happen in time…come on your not blind
Gary
March 9th, 2010
10:07 am
Basketball has had a big problem with bad calls for a long time. Some call it home “advantage”. I call it cheating. This will only get the kids that go on to play at a higher level ready for the bad calls to come. BTW, the NBA is the worst at bad calls.
Whitey Nichols
March 9th, 2010
10:07 am
First of all, the toughest thing we refs have to decide before the game is which team we are going to favor…which team has the cutest moms, which team pays the fastest etc. Milton has some really cute moms.
Buffalo Ref
Yellowja
March 9th, 2010
10:17 am
It was a foul. The ref was in the correct position and watching exactly what he is supposed to be watching. He cannot see the clock nor know how much is left. It is up to the other officials to determine what happened first. I also agree that the player before the rebound foul was fouled while shooting and nothing was called. It appeared from the video that there should have been between .02 and .03 time left on the clock when the foul occurred.
Stander
March 9th, 2010
10:21 am
That is a really sad ending to what probably was the defacto championship game. Officiating the final seconds of a basketball game is so screwy.
Mike
March 9th, 2010
10:34 am
I would be OK if they called the prior foul and that would have been a legitimate call but this call was BS. Like the other poster said you either have to be a homer or delusional.to think this was a good call.
Don'tTypicallyPost
March 9th, 2010
10:38 am
Help me out, Carvell and Yarbrough, as I don’t know the answer. So, the scorekeeper can make the horn vs. whistle call?
This is the same scorekeeper, mind you, that TWICE messed up during the game and had to be corrected by the Norcross bookkeeper without objection from the Milton bookkeeper. I am not sure why a man who clearly can’t keep track of simple fouls correctly is making a game-changing decision.
Northside
March 9th, 2010
10:41 am
Mike are blind or do you think it should be a no call? cause anyone with eyes can seehe grabbed royal and pulled him down with time on the clock. he made no attempt of going for the ball
Dawg-Hatin' Jacket
March 9th, 2010
10:41 am
Let me start by saying I am a completely unbiased observer and I find most of this discussion very entertaining. But I am obliged to correct Reality.
Reality, you said “But a foul called after the buzzer isn’t really a foul… The game is over…Explain to me how that is wrong.”
Here is how that is wrong. You keep focusing on when the foul was CALLED. It doesn’t matter when the foul is CALLED. What matters is when the foul OCCURS. If the foul OCCURS before the buzzer then it is a legitimate foul, even if the ref doesn’t get it CALLED until the buzzer goes off. As long as there is time on the clock when the foul OCCURS, it is a foul.
Northside
March 9th, 2010
10:41 am
are you*
Mike
March 9th, 2010
10:51 am
It’s a no call. Like a prior poster said if this happened at either a collegiate level or a pro level it would never be called. ESPN would be running it nonstop.This kid was not scoring. He was pulling down a rebound. Instead of being a homer just take off your blinders and see how games are really called. If the roles were reversed you would be screaming bloody murder.
2010 Georgia High School Basketball Tournament: Milton controversy leads us into semifinals play | Prep Zone: AJC High School Sports
March 9th, 2010
10:54 am
[...] GHSA’s response: Ernie Yarbrough, the GHSA’s director of basketball officials, answers questions about game’s… [...]
idiotrefs
March 9th, 2010
10:54 am
Curious in NO video do I see can you tell the player was pulled. As far as the video shows the Norcross player could have been grabbing the ball and Milton player was holding and pulled back and because of this the Milton player fell back. All you amateurs are reffing by body language and DO NOT even see where the player is grabbing because you CAN NOT see the ball! Everyone is just seeing the body motion. The only one that could see the ball was the lead referee. He saw a foul. He called it. To me it is not a question of weather it was a foul, it is a question of was it enough contact to call and did it occur before the horn…
Northside
March 9th, 2010
11:06 am
HAHA no i understand why your upset but it was a foul plane and simple. would he have had time to get a shot off if he wasent? doubt it but HE WAS FOULED you cant get mad at the refs for making the call, its the kids fault he had no reason to foul him blame him
Northside
March 9th, 2010
11:07 am
you must not be able to see then
idiotrefs
March 9th, 2010
11:19 am
Must not be able to see? What do you see? You can not see the arms of either player? All you see is arms coming back. Can you tell me 100% that the Norcross player and the Milton player were not both hlding the ball? You can not see the ball so you can’t!
RefMan
March 9th, 2010
11:23 am
I place a lot of blame with GHSA. GHSA takes officials from the various officiating associations and mixes them and then assigns games based on experience, camp attendance, test scores, etc. So you have officials working together for the first time in big playoff games and that is a mistake. Anyone who has officiated knows the importance being familiar with your officiating partners out on the court (or field) to be able to work effectively together. I think GHSA should have each of the officiating associations require officials to work together (SOME) during the regular season and then let them work together during playoffs. You would see a vast improvement in officiating during playoffs.
Northside
March 9th, 2010
11:26 am
you must be the real idiot royal has the ball i mean unless the ball had glue on it and just stuck to him until he fell back with his arms in the air…oh well think what u want sir milton is 2 games away from the state title
idiotrefs
March 9th, 2010
11:26 am
Refman, refs do work together during the regular season with mixed crews and those refs have worked together many times. At least 2 if not all 3 were from same group.
RefMan
March 9th, 2010
11:31 am
idiotrefs – my point is the SAME three refs need to have worked together numerous times during regular season and region tourneys. That is not happening at least its not in my association.
RayTheRef
March 9th, 2010
11:34 am
Central Gwinnett Coach…According to Rule 10.4.1a…the Technical Foul Ruling the official made was not poor at all, but very accurate, by your own admission. Good Sportsmanship will always be a priority of the National Federation of High Schools.
idiotrefs
March 9th, 2010
11:34 am
Refman, would not have changed that play. If so tell me how?
idiotrefs
March 9th, 2010
11:37 am
Nortside, I see Royal grab the ball overhead, then he brings it down and to waist and you cannot see ball. You cannot call what you cannot see. The video is inconclusive. Think NFL replay. Could NFL overturn call from replay… Answer is NO. Only one on court that can see this foul is lead official. Trail if he was closer down but C and video camera are only guessing…
RefMan
March 9th, 2010
11:39 am
idiotrefs – I am not saying it would have changed that play. However, I believe the other two officials would have had stronger legs to stand on in persuading that official. The other two seem to think the call should not have been made and a group that works together would have had a greater chance of getting it right so to speak. But that call aside, I speak from experience that being familiar with your partners makes a big difference in your comfort level calling a game which leads to better officiating period!
Northside
March 9th, 2010
11:51 am
yeah WE cant see it but the ref on the baseline has a perfect view so im gonna trust he saw the foul
STEINER
March 9th, 2010
11:55 am
Hope the team who had the least number of recruited athletes won….GHSA has totally let the recruiting slide, looked the other way, and when questioned, says “we can’t intervene, we might get sued..” The GHSA knows this recruiting and cheating is going on, but will not step in and stop it….State titles in all sports mean very little anymore…It is not about taking the ones who live in your district and coaching them up, it is about going and scholarshipping each and every year the players who give you the best chance to win and filling in the holes with these recruits….This recruiting process has made many a mediocre coach into one that everyone looks up to as the next coming….High school sports now are all about recruiting, and if you’re not recruiting, you’re not gonna win except possibly in Class A…..Schools like Northside Warner Robins will always be looked after by the good ole boy GHSA….Officials of the GHSA were told specifically that Northside wasn’t telling the who story when their first FTE numbers came in….They stuck them in AAAA knowing that they were probably AAAAA, but they got cut a good deal by the GHSA….What were they, 175 over the number and still allowed to stay in AAAA….WHAT A JOKE!!!!!!!
idiotrefs
March 9th, 2010
11:56 am
Northside, I agree. That is what I am saying. He is the only one that can see the foul. Everyone posting cannot see what he sees. I am not debating if it was a foul. My argument is only did it occur before the time expired?
RayTheRef
March 9th, 2010
12:02 pm
RefMan…I do hear you, but when all officials learn from the same Rules Book, same Case Play Book and the same Offiials’ Manual…then…have a thorough Pre-Game Conference…then…enter the court KNOWING that “everything we do out there matters to somebody”…the Crew will do just fine, whether they have worked together in the past, or not. The truth is…being familiar with each other, sometimes causes us to “assume” too much and too often.
As an experienced official, knowing most of the officials in this state, I believe most of us are just glad WE are NOT the “topic of discussion.” Personally…I was real pleased with “what I saw on the court” from this Crew. But…I only saw the last 3 minutes. The video replays I have seen, are not clear, to an unbiased observer, as to whether the foul occurred before or after the horn. The position of the Lead official was perfect to monitor the play.
Asking for information from the table OFFICIALS is supported by the RULES of the game. The fact that they inquired, sure tells me they were “really working hard” to arrive at the CORRECT RULING.
Those who want to “question” as to whether the official should have made that call so near the end of the game…I only hope, pray and trust that you are NOT an official. THE GAME does not want or need “situational officiating.”
On another note…for Mr. Yarbrough to “entertain” questions is very admirable and his insight was clear. I’m sure many are glad he accommodated the AJC.
Also…I do not see where the Officiating Crew failed to offciate by the rules in the last 3 minutes. Unless…they did not allow a requested time-out before the last two free throws, which of course should be granted, since the game was not over.
So…following a game that this crew will always remember: I TIP MY STRIPES TO THIS CREW!
idiotrefs
March 9th, 2010
12:17 pm
Ray the Ref – thank you for confirming what I have been saying about the time out. They did not allow the time out as the coach was told time had expired and it was not allowed by rule. They were wrong! If allowed to call it could have changed the outcome….
Just Curious
March 9th, 2010
12:24 pm
Is there a Norcross fan here who thinks it was the right call? Is there a Milton fan here who thinks it was the wrong call?
FrankdaTank
March 9th, 2010
12:32 pm
To all of you who have took the time to write comments on this blog. I have one question for you. Would there have been this discussion going back and forth about this game if Julian Royal would’ve missed both free throws?
cato
March 9th, 2010
12:32 pm
The officials in Ga. has not been the best this year. I have attended several games in various regions of Ga. I know that they do not have an easy job, but I do believe that the most of refs are on an ego trip because they have a whistle. They are perfect in their eyes. They cannot do no wrong. There job is a judgement call in lot of instant. I can respect that also, but when you have been feed bias opinions whether it might be from another ref, spectator, or other coaches that is just not right. I have witness and heard the ref said the reason why they do what they do is because the image of a school, they might have heard about a particular player. I feel that each game should game by game situation versus labeling that individual or team. There is no really consistency if the ref’s profession. Thay are some real good ones. They establish a great line of communication. I also know that they have clinics. Some of the ref need to go every year versus once very two years. During these clinics they to demonstrate proper footwork for basketball play, so they make better judgement call. Reading a rulebook is just good enough. They need visual aide. Ref should manage a game instead of being the star of the game due a questionable call. Then we want have game officiated like Norcross- Milton. These ref need more training on an extensive level and take pride in their second professional for most of these officials. I believe that coaches, clock operators, and official scorekeepers need to attended these clinics also, this will improve quality of the game.
George Gipp
March 9th, 2010
1:08 pm
Whether the official made a good call or blew the call does not matter. Officials blow calls all the time, it’s the human part of the contest. They make a lot of good calls too. You can be pissed off about it all you want, but it doesn’t change the outcome. I’ve always told my players, if a game comes down to one call or one play, and you lose because of that one call, you didn’t do enough to win in the first place.
I do not have a dog in this hunt, but I do pull for the Gwinnett County teams. I watched the video several times, with the sound turned off, just paying attention to the action, the clock and the official’s reaction. This is my conclusion:
1. There was an over the back foul on the rebound by Norcross player number 25.
2. After I saw the foul, I replayed it a few more time to see what the clock said after I clearly recognized the foul. The clock read .2 seconds.
3. Then I watched a few more times, concentrating on the official. He was looking right at the infraction.
4. When I put it all together and broke it down. The foul was committed at .2, the clock hit 0.00, then the official reacted to what he saw and called the foul.
Without the sound, it appeared that the horn would have sounded before the whistle. The clock had clearly expired before the official reacted. However, the official had a good look, the foul happened before the clock expired and the official got it right.
Whether or not he reacted and blew the whistle before the horn is irrevelent with 2 hundreths of a second on the clock. The Norcross player made no attempt to block out in order to get position on the rebound. He stood there brain dead until the Milton player stepped in front of him and went up for it. Then the Norcross player went over his back and fouled him.
gakat1
March 9th, 2010
1:28 pm
Micheal Carvell, appreciate your time interviewing the GHSA official. Having said that he will NEVER do anything except protect the refs. As stated throughout the comments, the same ref made the call on the basket not good by Lamb and called the T for no reason at all. I sat right behind the scorers table for all 4 games and my buddy or I neither heard a whistle. When the same ref asked the clock operator about time and whistle, that is unbelievable in itself. I was in the second row behind him.
Again just another pathetic situation and the ghsa will do NOTHING.
HS Hoops Follower
March 9th, 2010
2:38 pm
It was a fouls plain and simple’. I don’t care when it occurs it’s got to be called. Should some amount of time been put on the clock, YES, should the timeout have been granted, YES so in that context YES it was a blown call, but the actually calling of the foul, was not not blown. Yet AJC why are you going to have video up without audio?
Lets look at it from a BASKETBALL standpoint. The Milton player brought the ball down instead of uses the window to try and score. So if your going to blame the ref I’m going to blame the coaching, SON DON’T BRING THE BALL DOWN ESPECIALLY IN THIS CASE! KNOW THE TIME AND SCORE!
With that said I’ve seen bad calls all season, I’ve seen good calls all season and personally I don’t care who won but I will tell you this, NORCROSS (Men and Women) got their share of calls this season and one call doesn’t impact the entire game.
While were talking about rules….CAN WE PLEASE GET A SHOT CLOCK….ugh!
idiotrefs
March 9th, 2010
3:41 pm
HS Hoops Follower > Shot clock… Now you really want to screw with the HS refs!
Big-Man
March 9th, 2010
4:35 pm
I was skeptical before watching the video, but they got this call right. Time doesn’t stop when the fould happens it stops when the whistle is BLOWN.
You can call a foul and have no time left. Kentucky played Arkansas in the 1995 SEC Championship game and came back from an 8pt deficit with around a minute left to tie the game with a couple seconds left. Roderick Rhodes stole the inbounds pass and got fouled with no time left. He missed both free throws and they eventually went on to win the game in OT.
atlien052
March 9th, 2010
5:46 pm
I can’t tell from the video. Who was the foul called on? What is the number of the Milton kid who was fouled and hit the free throw?
Mike
March 9th, 2010
5:51 pm
Like a previous poster said. If this happened in the NCAA it would be an outrage. This is never called and this kid wasn’t scoring. If you wanted to call the previous play I can agree with that but this is a joke.
foxandcoon
March 9th, 2010
8:40 pm
The GHSA is under the control of idiots. They have ruined the state basketball tournament…
Steve
March 9th, 2010
10:56 pm
If the foul was on the player coming over the back, contact was CLEARLY made before the lights lit up. In fact, the kids arm was completely back down by his side (after hacking the rebounders arm above his head) before the lights went red.
The foul DID happen before the clock hit zero. Just because it took the ref a second or two to blow his whistle is a lame excuse to try to reverse a proper call.
As for all this ‘you don’t make calls like x, y, or z’ at that time of the game, but it’s ok to make them earlier. That is the lamest argument I have ever heard and it keeps coming back. I will put it simply:
As a referee, your job is to enforce the rules .. regardless of time, potential change in outcome, crowd intensity .. or ANYTHING else involved. If you want integrity in sports, it starts with referees calling the games as they should be, and this was a legitimate call.
Now, I do agree that time should have been put back on the clock. You never know what might have happened.
Steve
March 9th, 2010
10:59 pm
Big Man is 100% correct above. You absolutely CAN call a foul with no time left, provided the foul happened prior to time expiring, which it clearly did.
The foul was on #25 for coming over the back and knocking the ball loose .. it was not on the kid that came away with the ball. The arm contact was clearly before time expired.
stw
March 9th, 2010
11:02 pm
BIG MAC: Thanks for the personal attack. That shows class. I officiated with Ernie Yarbrough and he has been a credit to the sport and Georgia. You could “see” the foul, but unless you were sitting right behind this official what you saw doesn’t mean a thing. He was in position, had the angle and had the conviction to make the call.
NO LION: I officiated basketball and soccer for 20+ years and had the priviledge of doing state games and NEVER
stw
March 9th, 2010
11:04 pm
NO LION: cont. had anyone even suggest a team should or should not win. Your momma taught you well…If you can’t win on your own then blame someone else. Couldn’t have been your fault….
stw
March 9th, 2010
11:22 pm
One final thought. If there is 24 fouls per game and 15 violations and 4 time outs, then we have to stop the game 43 time to add time back to the clock (from the lame agruments above) and nobody would ever be happy, and the players could never get into a rythum. It’s been a long time since I’ve disagreed with Ernie Yarbrough and I’m sure no one that has contributed to this column including the “author” could have carried Ernie’s jock during a game.
Foul Play
March 10th, 2010
12:36 pm
A friend of mine sent me this link and being a high school official in North Carolina, I was shocked to learn that the final 8 in Georgia did not use Precision Time System nor the instant replay system. If you are playing these “important” games at a college facility, why not implement the total use of the facility? As for the call, from the video the fall is unclear to me. The view the camera gives me and the view of the official are two different angles. So, I will side in his favor. As for the time on the clock. In a game using the Prescision Time System, the hand going up has nothing to do with the time on the clock. It is the whistle that counts. In a game without it is the hand and the clock operator is to watch the hand go up and is to stop it at the point his hand is above his head for the official stop of play. In this case that would mean a one second lapse in time as a standard measure. The question I asked my friend was, why didn’t the backboard light up and he informed me it did not work in the second half nor the girls game that followed and that it was lit up at the far end. In that case, the game is considered over. The back board malfunction, would have made the game over and nulified the question of time, clearly time expired if the board is lit. But all this debate solves nothing…the game is over and the bottom line is Georgia needs to take a look at updating their standards. The GHSA is following the basic protocals by the National Federation and in this case, they got a basic result. Very unfair to both teams. Norcross loses the game and Milton could possibly win a tainted championship.
Joe
March 10th, 2010
6:20 pm
stw, learn a little about the game before you criticize others. It is impossible to have a foul with no time left. Impossible.
unbiased viewer
March 10th, 2010
8:11 pm
I’ve watched it 20 times and see nothing close to a foul. A seriously pathetic call by a ref who apparently made an equally bad and potentially game changing call against another Gwinnett County team the same night. Coincidence? I don’t know. Wonder where the dude lives, went to high school, played ball (if he did,his officiating skills indicate he rode the bench), etc??? Sad for an otherwise great game to end under such a cloud. He should be banned from calling games involving Gwinnett County teams.
Rev T
March 11th, 2010
12:12 am
I sure hope and pray that Ernie Yarbrough and Chuck Miller have dismissed this entire group of refs of any assigned duties during the semi finals and finals. If not, when they make another bad ,selfish call, it’s on you two. If you knowingly follow the blind man into a ditch, then you are the fool and cause your entire program to become full of fools, even the great refs, and you do have more good ok and good refs than stupid blind with selfishness ones. At that point you should excuss yourselves and retire…..Love you man…..
KW
March 11th, 2010
12:13 am
I find it interesting that a few of you are talking about Precision Timing Devices and shot clocks. I will tell you this: Shot clocks will NOT be in HS…not because of the officials, but because of finding people to run them and the cost to install them. Sure…Gwinnett County could afford it, as could a few others…but if you do it for one, you must for the others! And I don’t see all of the A & AA teams all over the state being able to do it! Again, besides…we have a hard enough time getting quality shot clock keepers on the D2, NAIA, and D3 levels…what is going to happen when you have to get them in all HS games???
Also, PTD is NOT used in the NCAA tournament…while I have used it several times…we use it in regular season games in D1 leagues and even some below that…why has GHSA got it wrong? Why not look at the NCAA and say the same thing?!?!?!
Rev T
March 11th, 2010
12:22 am
Hey you guys…….don’t forget about Newton, 25-1 and Westlake who is number one in the state..What you gonna do when the LIONS go WILD on You????? Just because Milton beat Norcross don’t mean they have won anything yet. Ask Groves and Stephenson..