The Georgia High School Association takes questions about the controversial ending to basketball playoff game (UPDATED)
- Related: SEE THE VIDEO. YOU BE THE REF and make the call in the controversial ending to the Milton-Norcross playoff game. Click here.
- Believe it or not? Milton defeats Norcross with time expired. Click here.
The state’s basketball community is still buzzing about the controversial ending to Milton’s 52-51 win over Norcross in the state playoffs. A referee determined that Milton’s Julian Royal was fouled while attempting a rebound at the same time as the final buzzer sounded. Royal was awarded two foul shots with time expired and sank both, with the second one winning it for Milton.
Ernie Yarbrough, the GHSA’s director of basketball officials, spoke with the AJC’s Michael Carvell on Monday:
Q. How can you have a foul called with no time left on the clock?
A. Here’s the problem with high schools. You don’t have a TV instant replay like you do in college where you can go back and look at it. (On time being expired), in high school basketball, the rules do allow for simultaneous actions to take place. So, not being there, I spoke with the GHSA representative (Henry County’s Chuck Miller) who was there, and he told me the officials handled it correctly.
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Q. Can you explain the turn of events?
A. (Miller) said the officials got together and discussed what happened, and the time sequence of when it happened … in fact, (Miller) said they came to the scorer’s table and asked the clock operator — Which was first? The whistle or the horn? And the timer told them the whistle was first.
Q. Does Norcross have any recourse?
A. No, anytime it’s an officials’ judgment, there are no protests allowed in any GHSA sports. The only recourse they have, and it doesn’t soothe the pain of losing the game, is that if a school feels like the officials ruled in error, then they can submit an unsatisfactory officiating report, which would be reviewed and ruled upon by me. But it’s not going to change the outcome of the game.
Q. Does the GHSA penalize referees for bad calls?
A. We don’t penalize for poor judgment, but we do for misapplication of rules. In this case, there was not a misapplication of rules because no rule was violated.
Q. Were you aware of the controversy?
A. Yes, (Miller) called me immediately after the game and informed me what happened and that it was handled correctly. Whether the foul that occurred before the free throws was a good call, I can’t tell from the video I’ve seen. But I can tell you that the official was much closer to the action than me, and felt like the call needed to be made.
+ + +
We have video of the the final seconds to the controversial ending to the Milton-Norcross game from Saturday’s Class AAAAA quarterfinals.
Let’s set up the scene: Norcross was winning by a point with 10.2 seconds left in regulation. Milton drove down the court and missed two shots, and Norcross celebrates as if it has won. However, a referee determined that Milton’s Julian Royal was fouled while attempting to rebound somewhere around the time of the final buzzer.
You know the rest of the story: Royal makes both foul shots to give Milton the 52-51 win and, more importantly, a berth in the state semifinals.
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139 comments Add your comment
idiotrefs
March 9th, 2010
10:54 am
Curious in NO video do I see can you tell the player was pulled. As far as the video shows the Norcross player could have been grabbing the ball and Milton player was holding and pulled back and because of this the Milton player fell back. All you amateurs are reffing by body language and DO NOT even see where the player is grabbing because you CAN NOT see the ball! Everyone is just seeing the body motion. The only one that could see the ball was the lead referee. He saw a foul. He called it. To me it is not a question of weather it was a foul, it is a question of was it enough contact to call and did it occur before the horn…
Northside
March 9th, 2010
11:06 am
HAHA no i understand why your upset but it was a foul plane and simple. would he have had time to get a shot off if he wasent? doubt it but HE WAS FOULED you cant get mad at the refs for making the call, its the kids fault he had no reason to foul him blame him
Northside
March 9th, 2010
11:07 am
you must not be able to see then
idiotrefs
March 9th, 2010
11:19 am
Must not be able to see? What do you see? You can not see the arms of either player? All you see is arms coming back. Can you tell me 100% that the Norcross player and the Milton player were not both hlding the ball? You can not see the ball so you can’t!
RefMan
March 9th, 2010
11:23 am
I place a lot of blame with GHSA. GHSA takes officials from the various officiating associations and mixes them and then assigns games based on experience, camp attendance, test scores, etc. So you have officials working together for the first time in big playoff games and that is a mistake. Anyone who has officiated knows the importance being familiar with your officiating partners out on the court (or field) to be able to work effectively together. I think GHSA should have each of the officiating associations require officials to work together (SOME) during the regular season and then let them work together during playoffs. You would see a vast improvement in officiating during playoffs.
Northside
March 9th, 2010
11:26 am
you must be the real idiot royal has the ball i mean unless the ball had glue on it and just stuck to him until he fell back with his arms in the air…oh well think what u want sir milton is 2 games away from the state title
idiotrefs
March 9th, 2010
11:26 am
Refman, refs do work together during the regular season with mixed crews and those refs have worked together many times. At least 2 if not all 3 were from same group.
RefMan
March 9th, 2010
11:31 am
idiotrefs – my point is the SAME three refs need to have worked together numerous times during regular season and region tourneys. That is not happening at least its not in my association.
RayTheRef
March 9th, 2010
11:34 am
Central Gwinnett Coach…According to Rule 10.4.1a…the Technical Foul Ruling the official made was not poor at all, but very accurate, by your own admission. Good Sportsmanship will always be a priority of the National Federation of High Schools.
idiotrefs
March 9th, 2010
11:34 am
Refman, would not have changed that play. If so tell me how?
idiotrefs
March 9th, 2010
11:37 am
Nortside, I see Royal grab the ball overhead, then he brings it down and to waist and you cannot see ball. You cannot call what you cannot see. The video is inconclusive. Think NFL replay. Could NFL overturn call from replay… Answer is NO. Only one on court that can see this foul is lead official. Trail if he was closer down but C and video camera are only guessing…
RefMan
March 9th, 2010
11:39 am
idiotrefs – I am not saying it would have changed that play. However, I believe the other two officials would have had stronger legs to stand on in persuading that official. The other two seem to think the call should not have been made and a group that works together would have had a greater chance of getting it right so to speak. But that call aside, I speak from experience that being familiar with your partners makes a big difference in your comfort level calling a game which leads to better officiating period!
Northside
March 9th, 2010
11:51 am
yeah WE cant see it but the ref on the baseline has a perfect view so im gonna trust he saw the foul
STEINER
March 9th, 2010
11:55 am
Hope the team who had the least number of recruited athletes won….GHSA has totally let the recruiting slide, looked the other way, and when questioned, says “we can’t intervene, we might get sued..” The GHSA knows this recruiting and cheating is going on, but will not step in and stop it….State titles in all sports mean very little anymore…It is not about taking the ones who live in your district and coaching them up, it is about going and scholarshipping each and every year the players who give you the best chance to win and filling in the holes with these recruits….This recruiting process has made many a mediocre coach into one that everyone looks up to as the next coming….High school sports now are all about recruiting, and if you’re not recruiting, you’re not gonna win except possibly in Class A…..Schools like Northside Warner Robins will always be looked after by the good ole boy GHSA….Officials of the GHSA were told specifically that Northside wasn’t telling the who story when their first FTE numbers came in….They stuck them in AAAA knowing that they were probably AAAAA, but they got cut a good deal by the GHSA….What were they, 175 over the number and still allowed to stay in AAAA….WHAT A JOKE!!!!!!!
idiotrefs
March 9th, 2010
11:56 am
Northside, I agree. That is what I am saying. He is the only one that can see the foul. Everyone posting cannot see what he sees. I am not debating if it was a foul. My argument is only did it occur before the time expired?
RayTheRef
March 9th, 2010
12:02 pm
RefMan…I do hear you, but when all officials learn from the same Rules Book, same Case Play Book and the same Offiials’ Manual…then…have a thorough Pre-Game Conference…then…enter the court KNOWING that “everything we do out there matters to somebody”…the Crew will do just fine, whether they have worked together in the past, or not. The truth is…being familiar with each other, sometimes causes us to “assume” too much and too often.
As an experienced official, knowing most of the officials in this state, I believe most of us are just glad WE are NOT the “topic of discussion.” Personally…I was real pleased with “what I saw on the court” from this Crew. But…I only saw the last 3 minutes. The video replays I have seen, are not clear, to an unbiased observer, as to whether the foul occurred before or after the horn. The position of the Lead official was perfect to monitor the play.
Asking for information from the table OFFICIALS is supported by the RULES of the game. The fact that they inquired, sure tells me they were “really working hard” to arrive at the CORRECT RULING.
Those who want to “question” as to whether the official should have made that call so near the end of the game…I only hope, pray and trust that you are NOT an official. THE GAME does not want or need “situational officiating.”
On another note…for Mr. Yarbrough to “entertain” questions is very admirable and his insight was clear. I’m sure many are glad he accommodated the AJC.
Also…I do not see where the Officiating Crew failed to offciate by the rules in the last 3 minutes. Unless…they did not allow a requested time-out before the last two free throws, which of course should be granted, since the game was not over.
So…following a game that this crew will always remember: I TIP MY STRIPES TO THIS CREW!
idiotrefs
March 9th, 2010
12:17 pm
Ray the Ref – thank you for confirming what I have been saying about the time out. They did not allow the time out as the coach was told time had expired and it was not allowed by rule. They were wrong! If allowed to call it could have changed the outcome….
Just Curious
March 9th, 2010
12:24 pm
Is there a Norcross fan here who thinks it was the right call? Is there a Milton fan here who thinks it was the wrong call?
FrankdaTank
March 9th, 2010
12:32 pm
To all of you who have took the time to write comments on this blog. I have one question for you. Would there have been this discussion going back and forth about this game if Julian Royal would’ve missed both free throws?
cato
March 9th, 2010
12:32 pm
The officials in Ga. has not been the best this year. I have attended several games in various regions of Ga. I know that they do not have an easy job, but I do believe that the most of refs are on an ego trip because they have a whistle. They are perfect in their eyes. They cannot do no wrong. There job is a judgement call in lot of instant. I can respect that also, but when you have been feed bias opinions whether it might be from another ref, spectator, or other coaches that is just not right. I have witness and heard the ref said the reason why they do what they do is because the image of a school, they might have heard about a particular player. I feel that each game should game by game situation versus labeling that individual or team. There is no really consistency if the ref’s profession. Thay are some real good ones. They establish a great line of communication. I also know that they have clinics. Some of the ref need to go every year versus once very two years. During these clinics they to demonstrate proper footwork for basketball play, so they make better judgement call. Reading a rulebook is just good enough. They need visual aide. Ref should manage a game instead of being the star of the game due a questionable call. Then we want have game officiated like Norcross- Milton. These ref need more training on an extensive level and take pride in their second professional for most of these officials. I believe that coaches, clock operators, and official scorekeepers need to attended these clinics also, this will improve quality of the game.
George Gipp
March 9th, 2010
1:08 pm
Whether the official made a good call or blew the call does not matter. Officials blow calls all the time, it’s the human part of the contest. They make a lot of good calls too. You can be pissed off about it all you want, but it doesn’t change the outcome. I’ve always told my players, if a game comes down to one call or one play, and you lose because of that one call, you didn’t do enough to win in the first place.
I do not have a dog in this hunt, but I do pull for the Gwinnett County teams. I watched the video several times, with the sound turned off, just paying attention to the action, the clock and the official’s reaction. This is my conclusion:
1. There was an over the back foul on the rebound by Norcross player number 25.
2. After I saw the foul, I replayed it a few more time to see what the clock said after I clearly recognized the foul. The clock read .2 seconds.
3. Then I watched a few more times, concentrating on the official. He was looking right at the infraction.
4. When I put it all together and broke it down. The foul was committed at .2, the clock hit 0.00, then the official reacted to what he saw and called the foul.
Without the sound, it appeared that the horn would have sounded before the whistle. The clock had clearly expired before the official reacted. However, the official had a good look, the foul happened before the clock expired and the official got it right.
Whether or not he reacted and blew the whistle before the horn is irrevelent with 2 hundreths of a second on the clock. The Norcross player made no attempt to block out in order to get position on the rebound. He stood there brain dead until the Milton player stepped in front of him and went up for it. Then the Norcross player went over his back and fouled him.
gakat1
March 9th, 2010
1:28 pm
Micheal Carvell, appreciate your time interviewing the GHSA official. Having said that he will NEVER do anything except protect the refs. As stated throughout the comments, the same ref made the call on the basket not good by Lamb and called the T for no reason at all. I sat right behind the scorers table for all 4 games and my buddy or I neither heard a whistle. When the same ref asked the clock operator about time and whistle, that is unbelievable in itself. I was in the second row behind him.
Again just another pathetic situation and the ghsa will do NOTHING.
HS Hoops Follower
March 9th, 2010
2:38 pm
It was a fouls plain and simple’. I don’t care when it occurs it’s got to be called. Should some amount of time been put on the clock, YES, should the timeout have been granted, YES so in that context YES it was a blown call, but the actually calling of the foul, was not not blown. Yet AJC why are you going to have video up without audio?
Lets look at it from a BASKETBALL standpoint. The Milton player brought the ball down instead of uses the window to try and score. So if your going to blame the ref I’m going to blame the coaching, SON DON’T BRING THE BALL DOWN ESPECIALLY IN THIS CASE! KNOW THE TIME AND SCORE!
With that said I’ve seen bad calls all season, I’ve seen good calls all season and personally I don’t care who won but I will tell you this, NORCROSS (Men and Women) got their share of calls this season and one call doesn’t impact the entire game.
While were talking about rules….CAN WE PLEASE GET A SHOT CLOCK….ugh!
idiotrefs
March 9th, 2010
3:41 pm
HS Hoops Follower > Shot clock… Now you really want to screw with the HS refs!
Big-Man
March 9th, 2010
4:35 pm
I was skeptical before watching the video, but they got this call right. Time doesn’t stop when the fould happens it stops when the whistle is BLOWN.
You can call a foul and have no time left. Kentucky played Arkansas in the 1995 SEC Championship game and came back from an 8pt deficit with around a minute left to tie the game with a couple seconds left. Roderick Rhodes stole the inbounds pass and got fouled with no time left. He missed both free throws and they eventually went on to win the game in OT.
atlien052
March 9th, 2010
5:46 pm
I can’t tell from the video. Who was the foul called on? What is the number of the Milton kid who was fouled and hit the free throw?
Mike
March 9th, 2010
5:51 pm
Like a previous poster said. If this happened in the NCAA it would be an outrage. This is never called and this kid wasn’t scoring. If you wanted to call the previous play I can agree with that but this is a joke.
foxandcoon
March 9th, 2010
8:40 pm
The GHSA is under the control of idiots. They have ruined the state basketball tournament…
Steve
March 9th, 2010
10:56 pm
If the foul was on the player coming over the back, contact was CLEARLY made before the lights lit up. In fact, the kids arm was completely back down by his side (after hacking the rebounders arm above his head) before the lights went red.
The foul DID happen before the clock hit zero. Just because it took the ref a second or two to blow his whistle is a lame excuse to try to reverse a proper call.
As for all this ‘you don’t make calls like x, y, or z’ at that time of the game, but it’s ok to make them earlier. That is the lamest argument I have ever heard and it keeps coming back. I will put it simply:
As a referee, your job is to enforce the rules .. regardless of time, potential change in outcome, crowd intensity .. or ANYTHING else involved. If you want integrity in sports, it starts with referees calling the games as they should be, and this was a legitimate call.
Now, I do agree that time should have been put back on the clock. You never know what might have happened.
Steve
March 9th, 2010
10:59 pm
Big Man is 100% correct above. You absolutely CAN call a foul with no time left, provided the foul happened prior to time expiring, which it clearly did.
The foul was on #25 for coming over the back and knocking the ball loose .. it was not on the kid that came away with the ball. The arm contact was clearly before time expired.
stw
March 9th, 2010
11:02 pm
BIG MAC: Thanks for the personal attack. That shows class. I officiated with Ernie Yarbrough and he has been a credit to the sport and Georgia. You could “see” the foul, but unless you were sitting right behind this official what you saw doesn’t mean a thing. He was in position, had the angle and had the conviction to make the call.
NO LION: I officiated basketball and soccer for 20+ years and had the priviledge of doing state games and NEVER
stw
March 9th, 2010
11:04 pm
NO LION: cont. had anyone even suggest a team should or should not win. Your momma taught you well…If you can’t win on your own then blame someone else. Couldn’t have been your fault….
stw
March 9th, 2010
11:22 pm
One final thought. If there is 24 fouls per game and 15 violations and 4 time outs, then we have to stop the game 43 time to add time back to the clock (from the lame agruments above) and nobody would ever be happy, and the players could never get into a rythum. It’s been a long time since I’ve disagreed with Ernie Yarbrough and I’m sure no one that has contributed to this column including the “author” could have carried Ernie’s jock during a game.
Foul Play
March 10th, 2010
12:36 pm
A friend of mine sent me this link and being a high school official in North Carolina, I was shocked to learn that the final 8 in Georgia did not use Precision Time System nor the instant replay system. If you are playing these “important” games at a college facility, why not implement the total use of the facility? As for the call, from the video the fall is unclear to me. The view the camera gives me and the view of the official are two different angles. So, I will side in his favor. As for the time on the clock. In a game using the Prescision Time System, the hand going up has nothing to do with the time on the clock. It is the whistle that counts. In a game without it is the hand and the clock operator is to watch the hand go up and is to stop it at the point his hand is above his head for the official stop of play. In this case that would mean a one second lapse in time as a standard measure. The question I asked my friend was, why didn’t the backboard light up and he informed me it did not work in the second half nor the girls game that followed and that it was lit up at the far end. In that case, the game is considered over. The back board malfunction, would have made the game over and nulified the question of time, clearly time expired if the board is lit. But all this debate solves nothing…the game is over and the bottom line is Georgia needs to take a look at updating their standards. The GHSA is following the basic protocals by the National Federation and in this case, they got a basic result. Very unfair to both teams. Norcross loses the game and Milton could possibly win a tainted championship.
Joe
March 10th, 2010
6:20 pm
stw, learn a little about the game before you criticize others. It is impossible to have a foul with no time left. Impossible.
unbiased viewer
March 10th, 2010
8:11 pm
I’ve watched it 20 times and see nothing close to a foul. A seriously pathetic call by a ref who apparently made an equally bad and potentially game changing call against another Gwinnett County team the same night. Coincidence? I don’t know. Wonder where the dude lives, went to high school, played ball (if he did,his officiating skills indicate he rode the bench), etc??? Sad for an otherwise great game to end under such a cloud. He should be banned from calling games involving Gwinnett County teams.
Rev T
March 11th, 2010
12:12 am
I sure hope and pray that Ernie Yarbrough and Chuck Miller have dismissed this entire group of refs of any assigned duties during the semi finals and finals. If not, when they make another bad ,selfish call, it’s on you two. If you knowingly follow the blind man into a ditch, then you are the fool and cause your entire program to become full of fools, even the great refs, and you do have more good ok and good refs than stupid blind with selfishness ones. At that point you should excuss yourselves and retire…..Love you man…..
KW
March 11th, 2010
12:13 am
I find it interesting that a few of you are talking about Precision Timing Devices and shot clocks. I will tell you this: Shot clocks will NOT be in HS…not because of the officials, but because of finding people to run them and the cost to install them. Sure…Gwinnett County could afford it, as could a few others…but if you do it for one, you must for the others! And I don’t see all of the A & AA teams all over the state being able to do it! Again, besides…we have a hard enough time getting quality shot clock keepers on the D2, NAIA, and D3 levels…what is going to happen when you have to get them in all HS games???
Also, PTD is NOT used in the NCAA tournament…while I have used it several times…we use it in regular season games in D1 leagues and even some below that…why has GHSA got it wrong? Why not look at the NCAA and say the same thing?!?!?!
Rev T
March 11th, 2010
12:22 am
Hey you guys…….don’t forget about Newton, 25-1 and Westlake who is number one in the state..What you gonna do when the LIONS go WILD on You????? Just because Milton beat Norcross don’t mean they have won anything yet. Ask Groves and Stephenson..