The Georgia High School Association takes questions about the controversial ending to basketball playoff game (UPDATED)
- Related: SEE THE VIDEO. YOU BE THE REF and make the call in the controversial ending to the Milton-Norcross playoff game. Click here.
- Believe it or not? Milton defeats Norcross with time expired. Click here.
The state’s basketball community is still buzzing about the controversial ending to Milton’s 52-51 win over Norcross in the state playoffs. A referee determined that Milton’s Julian Royal was fouled while attempting a rebound at the same time as the final buzzer sounded. Royal was awarded two foul shots with time expired and sank both, with the second one winning it for Milton.
Ernie Yarbrough, the GHSA’s director of basketball officials, spoke with the AJC’s Michael Carvell on Monday:
Q. How can you have a foul called with no time left on the clock?
A. Here’s the problem with high schools. You don’t have a TV instant replay like you do in college where you can go back and look at it. (On time being expired), in high school basketball, the rules do allow for simultaneous actions to take place. So, not being there, I spoke with the GHSA representative (Henry County’s Chuck Miller) who was there, and he told me the officials handled it correctly.
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Q. Can you explain the turn of events?
A. (Miller) said the officials got together and discussed what happened, and the time sequence of when it happened … in fact, (Miller) said they came to the scorer’s table and asked the clock operator — Which was first? The whistle or the horn? And the timer told them the whistle was first.
Q. Does Norcross have any recourse?
A. No, anytime it’s an officials’ judgment, there are no protests allowed in any GHSA sports. The only recourse they have, and it doesn’t soothe the pain of losing the game, is that if a school feels like the officials ruled in error, then they can submit an unsatisfactory officiating report, which would be reviewed and ruled upon by me. But it’s not going to change the outcome of the game.
Q. Does the GHSA penalize referees for bad calls?
A. We don’t penalize for poor judgment, but we do for misapplication of rules. In this case, there was not a misapplication of rules because no rule was violated.
Q. Were you aware of the controversy?
A. Yes, (Miller) called me immediately after the game and informed me what happened and that it was handled correctly. Whether the foul that occurred before the free throws was a good call, I can’t tell from the video I’ve seen. But I can tell you that the official was much closer to the action than me, and felt like the call needed to be made.
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We have video of the the final seconds to the controversial ending to the Milton-Norcross game from Saturday’s Class AAAAA quarterfinals.
Let’s set up the scene: Norcross was winning by a point with 10.2 seconds left in regulation. Milton drove down the court and missed two shots, and Norcross celebrates as if it has won. However, a referee determined that Milton’s Julian Royal was fouled while attempting to rebound somewhere around the time of the final buzzer.
You know the rest of the story: Royal makes both foul shots to give Milton the 52-51 win and, more importantly, a berth in the state semifinals.
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139 comments Add your comment
bigdog
March 8th, 2010
10:09 pm
Michael, ou’re right, no shot was being taken, but a grab is still a foul, even if you’re just tring to secure the ball. They call it during the game evertime.
Reality
March 8th, 2010
10:11 pm
But a foul called after the buzzer isn’t really a foul… The game is over…Explain to me how that is wrong.
Notcross
March 8th, 2010
10:13 pm
no listen to your self “The call is made when the offical makes the call, ” well duh
so according to you nothing matters after the buzzer is that correct?
Michael Carvell
March 8th, 2010
10:21 pm
ON A RELATED SUBJECT: A few people have suggested to me that the “honorable thing” for Milton to do was, after they made the first foul shot to tie the game, was to MISS THE SECOND ONE ON PURPOSE, because of the questionable call, to send the game to overtime ON PURPOSE. Again, not my idea, but from people who emailed me. Now if I was Milton’s coach, would I have done that? Heck no, because I didn’t call the foul, the official did. Would any coach have done that? None that I know … Then again, had Milton’s followed these “suggestions,” it probably would be on CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS, THE TONIGHT SHOW, and preparing for an ESPN “Outside the Lines” Special dedicated to the moment. I will give you people who made that suggestion that … But no way, I take the foul shots and end it.
By the rules
March 8th, 2010
10:32 pm
If any coach would’ve had the “Outside the Lines” moment by having their player miss the last ft it would be Boyd. The guy’s a class act.
Kevin The Ref
March 8th, 2010
10:43 pm
Idiotrefs
March 8th, 2010
6:26 pm
There was a mispplication of rules I heard. They did not allow the coach to call a timeout before the free throws because they said time expired. They were wrong!
LOl people like you crack me up, By rule you CANNOT call a timeout if there is no time on the clock. If this would of happen in collegwe they would of used instant replay but this is high school and you by judgement of the official. Id love to see any of yall do what we do. Please come to our camps and btw know you the rules, signals, and know were to position your self in a 3 person crew. We have camps in june at Georgia tech, Georgia State, FSU, and Clemson. Also we have other GHSA camps. Please come and try and do what we do.
Have a nice day
North Fulton Sports Guy
March 8th, 2010
11:39 pm
Carvell, completely agree on the clock operator point. Letting the clock operator decide the game is almost as stupid as someone making a movie about a hot tub that’s actually a time machine.
If the officials are going to ask the clock operator to decide the game, why not just take a straw poll of everyone in the first five rows, they saw and heard the same thing.
On a side note, here’s an interesting stat from the game:
Length of game: 32 minutes
Milton trailed for 59 seconds in the entire game. (This means they led for 31 minutes and one second)
Whether or not Norcross got screwed, I thought MIlton was more impressive overall.
Michael Carvell
March 9th, 2010
12:00 am
North Fulton Sports Guy: I was NOT impressed by Milton that particular night. I had high expectations for seeing Shannon Scott (Ohio State commitment) and was baffled when he missed foul shots in the fourth quarter that would’ve iced the game. Then, he lost track of time (according to Boyd) and hastily launched a 3-pointer from 30 feet, as if he was shooting at the buzzer.
With that said, I think Milton is easily the most talented team in the state. I think they will win state. And I think mastermind winner aka coach Boyd will rally his troops by telling them the whole world vs Milton after all the negative remarks from the Norcross game. He probably has most of the comments already posted in the locker room. If so, Shannon Scott, show me you’re the best player in the state.
Big Mac
March 9th, 2010
12:20 am
STW you are an idiot. It is called game management. And one observer was correct. We are taught at camp that if there is a foul to end a game as it was in this case, we should put time back on the clock.
bigdog
March 9th, 2010
12:20 am
Reality, the foul was called after the buzzer only because it was committed with less than a second before the buzzer sounded. Its just the natural sequence of things: it takes time for the ref to see the foul, raise his hand, draw in air, blow the whistle. This cannot be done in .1 second. Perhaps the said ref had to make a mental calculation, esp since the foul on the shot was not called, having to weigh the consequences of making such a gutsy decision against letting them play it out. Reality, think of it this way: lets say the foul occured the slightest fraction of a second before the game ended, it stands to reason that the whistle won’t be blown until after the buzzer sounds(maybe even a second or two afterwards), but there’s no way to get a histle blown before the end of the game if the foul occurs with less than a second on the clock. But that fraction of a second prior to 00.0 IS still part of the game, and a foul is a foul no matter when it is called, and no matter how short or long it takes the ref to get the whistle blowing.
bigdog
March 9th, 2010
12:22 am
I do agree that .3 sec should have been put back on the clock, and that timeouts should have been allowed.
xab
March 9th, 2010
12:31 am
This discussion about the game outcome is a good example of why we should eliminate HS sports. Let them have intermurals, for exercise and entertainment.
bigdog
March 9th, 2010
12:33 am
last thing and I’m gone. There are frequently delays in calling fouls on players, much to the chagrin of the fans. man times a ref will wait a second or two to see how a shot is effected before making the call….is this right?, mabe, mabe not, but through their actions they are admitting that not every foul is called simultaneously as it occurs. There’s some mental processing that has to occur, for whatever reasons. Bottom line, the ref felt that a fould was committed, in the video (admittedly not a great vantage point)there appears to be some contact (visually) prior to the 00.0 mark, and lets face it, its all really doesnt count (subjective anyway. So there it is, makes for a great discussion: should a call made just after time runs out (due to the lag reasons above) not be allowed. If so, then the last 1 second of any game really doesn’t count (with respect to fouls). Mabe they should change to last quarter of every game to 7 min, 59 seconds.
Worst Analogy Ever
March 9th, 2010
12:48 am
North Fulton Sports Guy: “Letting the clock operator decide the game is almost as stupid as someone making a movie about a hot tub that’s actually a time machine.”
That analogy is about as clever as making up an analogy that’s not really an analogy that doesn’t relate to the issue at hand. … Please, don’t use that in any columns. Please. I beg you to resist … the … urge.
Next time, try something like, “Letting the clock operator decide the game is like letting Spike Lee decide if Al Horford’s basket was taken before or after the buzzer.”
Andrew
March 9th, 2010
1:10 am
Based on the video, time expired. That should have been a no-call. Granted, HS refs do not have instant replay, but 2 of the 3 refs felt it was a no-call, so how can 1 ref overrule the other 2?
Bad call; Norcross got jobbed…
UGA75
March 9th, 2010
2:13 am
I started officiating HS Basketball right out of HS. I was a loud mouth fan riding officials at a JV game, with the game decided and 2 minutes left the head official handed me his whistle and said anyone so obnoxious should be able to do the job better than them. I took the challenge, and made a bigger fool of myself for the next 30 seconds or so. The Official asked me after the game to come to a meeting and that started me on a 34 year career which included HS and up to Southern Conference BB.
I also Umpired Baseball and Fast Pitch softball and between the two sports there was and largely remains a common thread. No game where athletes sweat and bleed should be decided by an official, umpire, referee. Unfortunately we have a lot of HS Officials today that honestly believe that people come to see them work and that they should be the center of attention. During the Milton/Norcross game it was clear the Officials were not in control which is their only job. The other two officials tried to get the 3rd guy to admit the whistle was after the buzzer, but he insisted, he wanted the attention, and he was wrong from a competitive perspective, he decided the game not the players, and worse from an officiating perspective where he became the story. This strokes his ego, and will cause him to do it again if GHSA doesn’t fire him, because people who become enamored of the spotlight are never going to allow themselves to be pushed back into obscurity which is where all we officials belong. A perfectly officiated game, in any sport, is one where people can’t recall there were officials on the field. Seldom happens, perfection is rare, but showboating Officials have no place above Rec. Ball.
opie
March 9th, 2010
3:00 am
Let me first say, I have no dog in this fight. I agree w/ UGA75 that the best officials control the game & yet remain anonymous to the fans. Your job is to control the game and not let one team or another gain an advantage. Period.
I was not there and the replay is “iffy” at best. Saying that, the comments that you don’t make that call at the end of the game are ignorant. IF the referee makes that call at the beginning of the game, he/she makes that call at the end of the game.
Not knowing the referee in question, I can’t comment on his motives. This much is clear, if he blew his whistle then it is his call to make. Right or wrong. I have received more than my share of technicals from refs that made bad calls. Unfortunately, it is their judgement.
Like many other professions, there is a lack of qualified applicants. I feel for the players, fans, parents, coaches and supporters of Norcross. That is not how you want to go out, especially if Walton is the “most talented” team. You earned a chance to beat them.
My only question, admittedly I didn’t know this rule, is that why was Norcross not allowed to call a timeout? If a foul was called, then whatever amount of time should be put on the clock. If there’s time on the clock, then a timeout should’ve been awarded.
Saying that, there was no real chance, given the player hit the free throws, that Norcross could’ve scored a basket.
Very unfortunate and I do believe based on my, personal experience, that there are too many refs that are in it for their own personal glory. Not saying this was the case, but if you have time to ask the score keeper which came first, you’ve got time to assess the situation and make the right call. If a foul was committed w/in the time frame of the game, then: (a) you award a timeout and (b) you give Norcross time to inbound the ball.
WeWonULost-GetOverIt
March 9th, 2010
4:01 am
Clear foul at .3 seconds. Great call. And call did not win the game. Our player still had to make his free throws.
That said..he made ‘em. Way to STROKE those free throws! Booyah! We win! Hahaha..ya’ll are a bunch of losers crying about a foul. We put it on you.
Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba…I’M LOVIN’ IT! OH YEAH!
Benny
March 9th, 2010
5:26 am
Wah! Whine! Here is how it works. Game is over. Get on with your life. Having coached for 40 years there is no right or wrong call. It was made. Why not talk about something important like changing the color of the rims? GAME OVER.
Mike
March 9th, 2010
6:22 am
The analogy that I think best fits this call is the one we saw this year when UGA played LSU and the split end was called for “excessive celebration”. he was technically correct and it was one of the poorest calls I have ever seen and I believe it cost UGA the game. I probably think most of you thought that was a terrible call. You can make the “right call” and it can still be bad in context. Remember, that crew was suspended after a similar bonehead calllater in the season.
Spots Fan
March 9th, 2010
6:30 am
Unfortunately, human error does occur in sports. Then there are the times when the officating just is plain bad. Try watching a soccer game. The refs there are usually football refs and don’t have a clue. At least this guy made an attempt to ask the time keeper.
brick
March 9th, 2010
6:48 am
I watched the clip several times and couldn’t tell if the foul occured before or after the horn, so no it isn’t obvious. As for as officials can’t make a call like that at the end of the game, why not, if they felt a foul was committed they should make the call, doesn’t matter if its the first trip down the floor or the last. You can’t play with one set of rules for 47 minutes and a different set for 1 minute. If the officials were calling that particular play a foul the entire game, then its a foul with .01 sec left.
tj
March 9th, 2010
6:49 am
Michael, regarding the call, I do not believe an official should ever blow the whistle in a scramble situation at the end of a game like the Milton-Norcross game unless the foul is deemed to be particularly egregious or intentional in nature. As for you annointing Milton the State Championship, they will have to go through a pretty good Newton County team(30-1) that has flown under the radar all season long.
Idiotrefs
March 9th, 2010
7:31 am
Kevin The Ref ….Kevin you crack me up. Learn the rules, read 5-6-2 exception 2. Playing time has not expired. YOU CAN CALL TIME OUT! Your camps teach you great stuff I see..
NoLion
March 9th, 2010
7:46 am
This ref made the call against Norcross, and the tech foul against Central Gwinnett’s coach, because he had instructions from GHSA to make sure NO TEAMS FROM GWINNETT GO TO THE STATE FINALS. People this is an issue with GHSA and no one in the state will admit to it. GHSA wants other teams in the finals other than Norcross, Wheeler etc. and they put this joker in to make sure it happens. Why do you think the brackets are designed the way they are? to guarantee 2 teams from the South GA against 2 teams from the North GA area. Its BS, having the best teams in the state playing in the 2-3 round of the state tournament. I don’t have a dog in the Milton-Norcross debate but it is clear, you can’t call a foul when there is no time on the clock. 2 refs called Game over, 1 called foul and at the scorers table 2-1 vote rules, THAT’S WHY THERE ARE 3 REF’S AT A GAME AND NOT AN EVEN #. GHSA is crooked as the day is long. GHSA can overrule the game, Why? because they make the rules,… They should do the right thing but they won’t.
Old ref
March 9th, 2010
7:47 am
Do we have referees in the stand that say what should have been a no call or have we been listening to too many tv games where announcers try to determine what they think. If it is a foul in the first quarter it is as foul at the end of the game. No place for no calls that will also determine the winner of a game. That leads to partiality from a referee. That is another problem you do not want to involve referee decisions.
North Fulton Sports Guy
March 9th, 2010
7:55 am
Carvell: I didn’t think either team was especially impressive on the night, Dai JonParker and Shannon Scott both missed pivotal free throws down the stretch, not to mention Lamb was off for most of the game. I was only saying that Milton was the more impressive team in the game (just as if I watched a Knicks/Nets game, as bad as the teams are, I would leave the game more impressed with one of the teams)
BTW: I thought Norcross got screwed on the Lamb basket at the end of the first half that was waved off. Kind of unreal to have two big calls like that at the end of each half and they both went against Norcross.
Worst Analogy Ever: My analogy is probably number two for worst ever, I think number one has to be UNC’s Roy Williams comparing his team’s season to the disaster in Haiti.
mt. dew
March 9th, 2010
8:08 am
To Kevin the ref – the rule states CONSECUTIVE timeouts may not be called after the expiration of time in the 4th quarter or overtime. Certainly a team can call ONE timeout.
An Old HS Sports Fan
March 9th, 2010
8:19 am
IT WAS SO LOUD I could barely hear the person next to me. Yet the clock person, who was 50 feet away from the play, heard the whistle before the horn????? I respectfully find that hard to believe.
My wife can hear a pin drop or a sharp retort at a hundred feet……the above sounds plausible to me
northside
March 9th, 2010
8:32 am
you guys must be blind he was fouled before it hit double zeros but its the kids fault for fouling him. even he was all alone by himself he wouldnt of had enough time to shoot most likley. the norcross killed bailed him out but i do agree you have to put .3 or .2 back on the clock. also if that was college or pro we most likley see a no call right there but hey it is high school
Notcross
March 9th, 2010
8:33 am
Mr. Carvell,
You are in a position of influence and dead wrong in calling out and trashing a 16 yr old kid who has lead his team to the state championship game as a SOPHOMORE last year and will probably do it again this year. BTW he is humble and has never claimed to be the best player in the state. that’s just WRONG WRONG WRONG!
Mike
March 9th, 2010
8:41 am
notcross stop being such a homer
Milton Backer
March 9th, 2010
8:44 am
Here is one thing everyone on this board can agree on…..
The coverage of high school basketball, by The AJC is god AWFUL
Case in point Mr. Carvell how many times have been out to see Milton play this year? At one point we were ranked 7th in the nation(lets not debate accuracy it was UAS Today) and based on your comments you never made the 30 minute drive to watch them play during the season. How many times did you see West Lake, McEachern, Walton, Wheerler or any of the top ranked teams play?
Oh wait too busy following high school football in FEBURARY By the way i see there are still football signing photos on the high school sports web page where are the basketball signing photos?
Notcross
March 9th, 2010
8:45 am
Come on Mike we are talking about a 16 yr old KID that he trashes after watching him play 1 game
Mike
March 9th, 2010
9:23 am
Notcross and all you who are saying it’s a good call. Were you celebrating the “good call” when the ref’s called the UGA split receiver for excessive celebration that cost UGA the game this year. After all that was by the “book” That crew eventually got suspended.
Notcross
March 9th, 2010
9:54 am
Not a valid analogy that was the celebration did not interfere with play # 25 isn’t even going for the ball just preventing royal from scoring while the clock is running huge huge difference
Mike
March 9th, 2010
9:59 am
very valid analogy. Royal was not tipping the ball. look at the replay. you must not actually play basketball if you think he was shooting.
Mike
March 9th, 2010
10:02 am
and he wasn’t called for fouling in the act of shooting.
northside
March 9th, 2010
10:04 am
? how does that matter? no he was not shooting but he was clearly pulled down with time on the clock, the ref called the foul after the game was over but the foul did happen in time…come on your not blind
Gary
March 9th, 2010
10:07 am
Basketball has had a big problem with bad calls for a long time. Some call it home “advantage”. I call it cheating. This will only get the kids that go on to play at a higher level ready for the bad calls to come. BTW, the NBA is the worst at bad calls.
Whitey Nichols
March 9th, 2010
10:07 am
First of all, the toughest thing we refs have to decide before the game is which team we are going to favor…which team has the cutest moms, which team pays the fastest etc. Milton has some really cute moms.
Buffalo Ref
Yellowja
March 9th, 2010
10:17 am
It was a foul. The ref was in the correct position and watching exactly what he is supposed to be watching. He cannot see the clock nor know how much is left. It is up to the other officials to determine what happened first. I also agree that the player before the rebound foul was fouled while shooting and nothing was called. It appeared from the video that there should have been between .02 and .03 time left on the clock when the foul occurred.
Stander
March 9th, 2010
10:21 am
That is a really sad ending to what probably was the defacto championship game. Officiating the final seconds of a basketball game is so screwy.
Mike
March 9th, 2010
10:34 am
I would be OK if they called the prior foul and that would have been a legitimate call but this call was BS. Like the other poster said you either have to be a homer or delusional.to think this was a good call.
Don'tTypicallyPost
March 9th, 2010
10:38 am
Help me out, Carvell and Yarbrough, as I don’t know the answer. So, the scorekeeper can make the horn vs. whistle call?
This is the same scorekeeper, mind you, that TWICE messed up during the game and had to be corrected by the Norcross bookkeeper without objection from the Milton bookkeeper. I am not sure why a man who clearly can’t keep track of simple fouls correctly is making a game-changing decision.
Northside
March 9th, 2010
10:41 am
Mike are blind or do you think it should be a no call? cause anyone with eyes can seehe grabbed royal and pulled him down with time on the clock. he made no attempt of going for the ball
Dawg-Hatin' Jacket
March 9th, 2010
10:41 am
Let me start by saying I am a completely unbiased observer and I find most of this discussion very entertaining. But I am obliged to correct Reality.
Reality, you said “But a foul called after the buzzer isn’t really a foul… The game is over…Explain to me how that is wrong.”
Here is how that is wrong. You keep focusing on when the foul was CALLED. It doesn’t matter when the foul is CALLED. What matters is when the foul OCCURS. If the foul OCCURS before the buzzer then it is a legitimate foul, even if the ref doesn’t get it CALLED until the buzzer goes off. As long as there is time on the clock when the foul OCCURS, it is a foul.
Northside
March 9th, 2010
10:41 am
are you*
Mike
March 9th, 2010
10:51 am
It’s a no call. Like a prior poster said if this happened at either a collegiate level or a pro level it would never be called. ESPN would be running it nonstop.This kid was not scoring. He was pulling down a rebound. Instead of being a homer just take off your blinders and see how games are really called. If the roles were reversed you would be screaming bloody murder.
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