Program of the decade? Camden, Northside stake claims
Northside and Camden County will play on Saturday for the Class AAAAA championship.
Is this also for the title of ”football program of the decade”?
Let’s look at the candidates:
Northside: 121-13 record this decade, two state titles, two runner-up finishes, but is it significant that the titles were won in Class AAAA, below the highest level?
Camden Couty: 120-13 record this decade, two state titles, but are Camden’s W-L record and playoff draws enhanced from playing in the state’s weakest Class AAAAA region?
Lowndes: Three state titles and six championships in the state’s toughest region, but does that make up for having only 106 victories this decade and a 2-4 record vs. Camden County?
Buford: 137-7 record this decade and five state titles, with a sixth possible, but how do you compare AA vs. AAAAA?
Is there another program that deserves consideration? Parkview? LaGrange? Charlton County?
As far as the other finals, there are no great surprises that I see except Clarke Central. Great job by Leroy Ryals in reviving a program that hasn’t been in a title game since 1992. Sandy Creek also deserves some recognition. An early loss conspired to keep this team out of the limelight until it counts.
All the finalists from AAA down have been ranked No. 1 or No. 2 at some point this season. I’d say Sandy Creek is a solid favorite to win AAAA, but the rest of the finals are toss-ups.
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420 comments Add your comment
Can't Include Camden County
December 7th, 2009
2:00 pm
Can’t include Camden County since most of their wins were against AAA schools and played on Camden’s home field. Their record looks impressive until you view how it was accomplished. They blow-out their region opponents which allows starters to be kept healthy and for younger players to get important game experience for the following years. GHSA is a joke when it comes to allowing Camden to get away with the seeding. That region should not be allowed a #1 play-off seed.
Panther Love?
December 7th, 2009
2:00 pm
Mostly good comments on this board. Parkview has slipped as of late but their run of play-off appearances in what is arguably one of the toughest districts top to bottom in the state as far as ’strength of schedule. Parkview deserves to be in the conversation on every topic in the team of the decade discussion. If they had made the same run as they did early in the decade in the past 3 years – we arn’t having this discussion – they would be hands down the team of the decade.
I know all you rural GA folks think that metro football is second class but just check Parkview’s record versus Valdosta, Lowndes, Camden, etc. Valdosta is the storied program and perhaps best of GA all time – but for the 2000s no program was better more consistently than the Panthers.
BJohnDawg
December 7th, 2009
2:00 pm
NHS (not Camden-StMarys-Kingsland-Woodbine-Waverly-Kingsbay-Browntown-***Unfair Advantage)
You are joking right. There are 50 people maybe 75 that live in Browntown. Woodbine has a 1,000. Waverly has maybe 400-500.
Unfair advantage my behind.
Jarmal
December 7th, 2009
2:01 pm
I THINK CHARLTON COUNTY HAS A GREAT PROGRAM, I ALSO FEEL THAT THE CLASSIFICATION IN GA IS VERY OVERRATED WHEN IT COMES TO MOST TEAMS.
SportsFan31313
December 7th, 2009
2:18 pm
Enter your comments here
Jefferson
December 7th, 2009
2:26 pm
Last year of this decade, so let’s start a new era to carry into the next decade …Go Jackets
cane fan
December 7th, 2009
2:31 pm
Enter your comments here
GoPCHS
December 7th, 2009
2:38 pm
I think the program of the decade probably has been Buford.
However, I think Peach County belongs somewhere in the Top 5. Four title games this decade, two (soon to be three!) championships. Since 2001, they are 95-13 against AAA teams. If they are able to beat an incredible Gainesville team Saturday, then Peach is squarely in that discussion.
Carlton
December 7th, 2009
2:39 pm
Right now Lowndes and Camden are the two best Ga teams of the last decade. Lowndes is probably “slightly” ahead… but if Camden wins this week I would put them at No 1 and Lowndes No 2..
GoPCHS
December 7th, 2009
2:40 pm
Speaking of dominance, anyone know if Northside WR’s drama team still wins their region every year? Last I had heard they had won their region 30-something years in a row . . .
EagleNationRising
December 7th, 2009
2:54 pm
GoPCHS: Yes. As does Forensics (Debate) and Literary. It is one of the most dominant forces in any GHSA activity, especially an activity that the entire state participates in. There are some programs that are as dominant. However, those are in sports and activities that only a small percentage of GHSA schools participate in.
The GHSA One Act Championships should be called the Northside HS Invitational. The same should be said of Literary and One Act. Back in the day, many Warner Robins students would chant “Nerdside” to Northside athletes during games. Of course, those days are long over.
VIKING DAD
December 7th, 2009
3:05 pm
Since Todd’s decade runs 2001-2010, why not settle the argument in 2010. With Northside, WR, and Houston County moving down, why not Buford, Northside, and Camden agree to play Lowndes. If Lowndes defeats all 3 teams, then they be the team of the decade
EagleNationRising
December 7th, 2009
3:06 pm
Classification does matter. When players are playing both ways it affects a football player both physically and mentally. Anyone who suggests otherwise has NEVER played sports at a high level. The case and point is the Northside versus Newnan game. Most of Newnan’s starters played both ways.
Briar Van Brunt had a career day in part because while Newnan’s linemen, linebackers, and defensive backs were blocking and getting hit by Northside defenders, Northside’s entire offense (except one SEC level player, CB/WR Brison Williams) was resting. Van Brunt has NEVER dominated a team in the manner that he dominated Newnan. He was literally running over Cougar players.
It is not because he is a superior player to guys like Alex Ogletree. Playing both ways for fourteen Friday nights and through countless practices has an affect on you. Mentally, the player must execute both an offensive and defensive game plan.
This is where a program like Buford would run into problems. There team is MUCH smaller than the teams in the larger classifications and they just get mentally and physically worn down. Some people have suggested that Peach County HS of Fort Valley, GA belongs in this conversation. Take a look at Peach County’s record against Northside. In skill positions, Peach County is almost ALWAYS better than Northside. It is the physical aspect of the game that Peach County practically ALWAYS falls short.
No team with the majority of their starters playing both ways is better than Camden County, Lowndes County, or Northside. Teams like Camden and Lowndes would violate Buford small team with their wing T. Northside might hang 50 on a small AA team with only 15 or 16 kids playing every down. For all of the chatter about Gwinnett County programs afraid to play Buford, can anyone tell me why Buford has dodged National Competition.
I believe that top national programs would play any other like program. I am convinced that Buford dodges top tier competition to maintain some sort of mystique. I program that can not run with the likes of Lovett and Central Gwinnett, is not in the same conversation as Georgia’s BIG 3!
WAQ
December 7th, 2009
3:28 pm
ENR
I for one asked the question why was Peach County left out the discussion. Based on the topic of the blog “football program of the decade”? Just because you play in a higher classification does not entitle you to be the program of the decade. By the way I remember the 21 to 0 (96) 14 to 0 (97) lost to Peach County Conrad’s third and fourth year as coach.
NHS#1
December 7th, 2009
3:41 pm
WAQ
Northside owns Peach County. We have deafeated them 7 times is a row. On top of that Peach County school system sucks. This is why half of the players on NHS have a father that played for PCHS in the 70s or 80s.
HSFootballFan
December 7th, 2009
3:56 pm
EagleNationRising, “For all of the chatter about Gwinnett County programs afraid to play Buford, can anyone tell me why Buford has dodged National Competition.”
Are you serious?!?!? Dodged National competition by playing in the Kirk Herbstreit classic, which invites the top programs from around the country to play against the biggest teams from their state, two years in a row first in Ohio and then in Texas. Your claims make no sense at all. And Buford has had some of the deepest lines in the state over the past few years with tons of talent and size to swap players in and out.
Jon
December 7th, 2009
3:58 pm
EagleNationRising. Your last post shows that you have no idea what you’re talking about. Buford would match up in size with anybody in the state. Period. See for yourself.
http://www.fcpsports.com/football/buford_wolves/showRoster.php?section_id=160
WAQ
December 7th, 2009
4:02 pm
NHS#1
First let me say this I lived in the WR area for 20 years. I am retired Air Force. I am a high school football fan and love great programs and coaches. I like to admire their “Individual” style.
I did not say PCHS had a winning record against NHS. I pointed out in the early years before Conrad built up the program he lost two years in a row to a lower classification team. The margin of victory is only 7 points with two blow outs.
My question is why were they not included in the conversation for program on the decade? They are playing for a 3rd championship Saturday.
They have two championships just like NHS this decade and they were runner up once. They play in the toughest region in AAA.
HS Fan
December 7th, 2009
4:02 pm
I believe Buford whom I do not like, had 13 D-1 players sign or were offered from the 2007 team (the grad . class w/ Omar Hunter)which is more than any other team that year. That could be one way to make an apple/orange comp. closer.
By the way, I have seen Da’Rick Rogers play this year and yes he is rated the best in GA and may be the best playmaker I have seen since H Walker. UGA’s coach Ball just shook his head in amazment all night against Lovett last Friday. If you haven’t seen this kid, get to the Dome Friday at 4:30 just to watch him leapfrom some of his teammates during warm-ups.
Good Luck to all the kids who have worked hard to get to the finals and give us old farts something to do!
Typical Catamount fan
December 7th, 2009
4:03 pm
Dalton has had 50-straight winning seasons, even if the Cats never do jack in the playoffs.
795
December 7th, 2009
4:07 pm
What a bunch of losers!!!!
HSFootballFan
December 7th, 2009
4:10 pm
And you keep referring to 1 game that Buford barely lost to Central Gwinnett in which Buford was missing key players including it’s starting Running Back to Mono… You seem to completely ignore the fact that the next year Buford killed them 43-21 which was the most points scored on them by any team team they played that year, INCLUDING LOWNDES!!!! And besides that one game, Buford has beaten every AAAAA, AAAA, and AAA team that they’ve played this decade, two of them being nationally televised in Ohio and Texas.
WAQ
December 7th, 2009
4:15 pm
HS Fan
Ask your self the question “How can a AA program have that many D-1 recruits from one community in one year?” Answer recruitment…..
Because of this in certain great recruiting class years (like 2007) I believe they can compete with Camden, NHS and Lowndes.
haha
December 7th, 2009
4:34 pm
wait so all that smack that everyone is talking means something? beat camden in football and then run your mouths. haha just saying, go ahead and set up excuses for why you lose.
maybe we could flip this around. if camden loses we could blame it on not seeing good competition and not knowing exactly what our team has. or that we dont mentally know how to prepare against good teams becasue we never see them and we always just roll over our region. or how about the whole year the team doesnt give it 100 percent in practice all week because we know are going to win so we arent getting better through out the year. region 3 is the reason why we arent better?
yall may say that sounds stupid, but its the same way yall sound when you say how it helps us.
point blank period, we win in the playoffs.
haha
December 7th, 2009
4:36 pm
WAQ…
wait so D1 talent wins football games? because camden only has one small time D1 prospect, and in the past they havent put out hardly any legit d1 prospects. so camden must suck?
WAQ
December 7th, 2009
4:42 pm
haha
No my friend Camden has a program and system (which I have eluded to in previous post) they use for success not D1 prospects.
Flyer
December 7th, 2009
4:43 pm
HS Fan– You act like Buford is playing top quality teams in AAAAA and nationally. The fact is Central Gwinnett is not a top flight team. The 2 teams that Buford has played in the Herbstreit Classic were bad teams. Grove City in Ohio was 4-6 in 2006 and 2-8 in 2007 (the year Buford played them). Mansfield Timberwolves in Texas was 4-6 in 2008 ( the year Buford Played them) and Ranked 122 out of 232 Class 4A teams. Class 4A is not the highest Classification in Texas. Mansfield was 5-5 this year. Hardly another Top Flight team. I also know that Buford had the opportunity to take Central Gwinnetts place in the Progressive Football Challenge and play Byrnes. Buford declined and picked up Grovetown instead.
You can’t deny Buford’s success or the number of D1 players that they have. Their recruitment process is second to none and their roster is full of players that live in the Mill Creek, Collins Hill, Ng and other school districts.
Now to answer the question who has the top program, I say this weekend has alot to say about that. Camden, Northside, Lowndes, Parkview and even Buford have a claim. If Camden wins Saturday, I would have to go with them and conversly go with Northside if they win. Both Lowndes and Parkview had years where the didn’t make the playoffs at all. Camden plays in a weak region, which guarantees them a playoff spot and Northside has won their Championships at the AAAA level.
Good topic!
Quinn of the Ridge
December 7th, 2009
4:48 pm
ENR, if you want to talk about Peachtree facing South GA teams, use these for reference, ALL of the scores we’ve had against South GA teams, not just one.
Lowndes 2009: 51-17 Loss
Northside 2009: 20-17 Loss 3OT
Camden 2008: 21-14 loss
Coffee 2008: 38-0 win
Lowndes 2008: 22-7 loss
Warner Robins 2006: 13-7 win
So we are 2-4 in our history against middle/south Georgia teams, with our average loss being by 14.75 points, not the 51-17 image painted out by many members of this board.
Guwinster
December 7th, 2009
4:56 pm
Did Camden voluntarily withdraw from the Corky Kell, or do the organizers want to market the thing towards a North Atlanta area crowd? If Camden did drop out, it could turn out very well for them. We’ve been stuck with some bad teams in the past. Imagine Camden playing Kell. Might as well play any one of at least a dozen southeast Georgia teams. I’m pretty sure the Corky Kell conflicted with us playing some regional powers in the past. Maybe now we can play two or three great out-of-state teams. Hoover, Norwestern Miami, Miami Central, Byrnes, Prattville, Independence, St. Thomas Aquinas, Bolles and Lakeland to name a few would all be better opponents than at least half of the ones in the Corky Kell and none of them are more than 2 hours further away than Atlanta. Maybe we’ll schedule Northside or Lowndes or one of the other good teams not in the Corky Kell (Buford fans, If you want to proove yourselves start calling your AD).
Northside Observer
December 7th, 2009
5:01 pm
The longer this blog gets the further away from the dicussion topic it becomes.
Please all– re-focus you comments to this decade. All that “REALLY” matters is what happens Fri/Sat.
Jefferson
December 7th, 2009
5:10 pm
Buford is so good, they should not practice this week as a reward.
Charlton County Fan
December 7th, 2009
5:11 pm
Enter your comments here
haha
December 7th, 2009
5:23 pm
northisde observer.
everyone has to listen to northside observer, i mean he obviously tells us what we can and cant talk about. so are you gonna let me say something about the games this weekend, or can we only talk about the best program?
Charlton County Fan
December 7th, 2009
5:27 pm
I think that if everyone on here is honest, they would say classification is somewhat overrated. We have played lots of teams that are ranked in higher classes year in and year out including playing up in 2A for the past few years, and yes we have only 15 or so that play, but all teams have only 22 so what’s the difference. If you have a good coach, you have a good chance to win. Most of our football players play at least 2 sports that is why they are able to play so many minutes on both sides of the ball and as soon as one sport is over most of them move on to the next. Yes, we are moving down, but I am sure we won’t shy away from playing other classifications in football. We scrimmage against Camden every year. We play against 4A schools from Florida. It is harder to compete when your school is so small, but not impossible. Heck we have had under 500 for at least 3 years now. One thing I can say to everone talking about recruiting, gotta say most of those chidren get a very good education when they go to those schools and that is the most important part of being a student athlete afterall.
John in Jacksonville
December 7th, 2009
5:28 pm
There is no “team of the decade.” If one program had been truly dominant, such as winning twice as many titles as anyone else in the highest classification, sure. But the four schools you mention each have reasons to celebrate their accomplishments. None of them outshine the others, and none are tarnished or diminished by the accomplishments of the others.
HS Fan
December 7th, 2009
5:29 pm
WAC and Flyer – I have no doubt Buford has out of district kids and it certianly happens with good programs. Take a look back at SW Atlanta Christian’s Basketball team when D. Howard and crew played for that “A” school. There are at least 2 NBA players from that team. That year they win all classes including N Gwin??? (I think) w Louis Williams
HSFootballFan
December 7th, 2009
5:33 pm
Flyer, you are correct about the Ohio team… they weren’t the greatest competition. The Texas team though, was actually a 6-6 playoffs team the year Buford played them. That’s why they were both so lopsided of victories… I think the point is the fact that Buford is recognized nationally as a team talented enough to invite to a showcase. And although Central Gwinnett wasn’t the best team in Gwinnett, they were a solid playoff team and a medium to compare Buford to some of the better teams. As I said, Buford put more points on them than any other team in ‘05, including Lowndes. Regarding the Progressive football challenge, I don’t think it was an issue of Buford not wanting to play in it. The offers for the Herbstreit classic come very early so they had to commit over a year in advance meaning their schedule was already closed up.
Charlton County Fan
December 7th, 2009
5:39 pm
opps! can’t type.
Whatever
December 7th, 2009
5:58 pm
NHS-the referee gods gave statesboro the win in 2005? Get over it. Your program has 131 wins this decade and still complianing about a call? I’m sure that NHS did NOT get any favorable calls during this time.
To the eagle fan telling Camden has an advantage by being the largest school in the area? I believe Northside high has the largest enrollment between the schools in WR. NHS also has a feeder middle school for football, were robins & hoco do not. What was the record of the 6,7,8 graders football teams? I here they were undefeated also.
NHS (not Camden-StMarys-Kingsland-Woodbine-Waverly-Kingsbay-Browntown-***Unfair Advantage)
December 7th, 2009
6:07 pm
Just watch the game film. True, the referee gods have been good and bad over the years, but 2005 was especially painful when it cost you a state championship. Only brought it up cause some statesboro fan was bragging.
NHS (not Camden-StMarys-Kingsland-Woodbine-Waverly-Kingsbay-Browntown-***Unfair Advantage)
December 7th, 2009
6:08 pm
No, Houston County has the largest enrollment.
NHS (not Camden-StMarys-Kingsland-Woodbine-Waverly-Kingsbay-Browntown-***Unfair Advantage)
December 7th, 2009
6:13 pm
So there are two Freds/freds on this blog, no wonder I am confused. About using Fred 1 and Fred 2 or Fred Camden and Fred Grayson.
NHS (not Camden-StMarys-Kingsland-Woodbine-Waverly-Kingsbay-Browntown-***Unfair Advantage)
December 7th, 2009
6:16 pm
Feeder system is part of being a good program, most schools have it. If you dont have it, you need it.
NHS (not Camden-StMarys-Kingsland-Woodbine-Waverly-Kingsbay-Browntown-***Unfair Advantage)
December 7th, 2009
6:19 pm
I say put Camden in the super, giant, humongus, or whatever classification and let them play themselves. They have enough players for at least three good teams
haha
December 7th, 2009
6:20 pm
NHS
kingsbay is a town in camden?
NHS (not Camden-StMarys-Kingsland-Woodbine-Waverly-Kingsbay-Browntown-***Unfair Advantage)
December 7th, 2009
6:28 pm
Thats what the Camden fans said, check earlier posts. I started out with 2 and they corrected me to 6. Actually, I think Kingsbay is the base but military folks might live there.
GWINNETT FAN # 1
December 7th, 2009
6:29 pm
WHAT YEAR DID C.GWINNETT BEAT BUFORD? HOW MANY GAMES HAS LOVETT WON PLAYING BUFORD THE LAST 5 YEARS ??? NO AAAAA SCHOOLS WILL PLAY BUFORD–IF YOU KNOW ONE HAVE THEM CALL COACH WOOD–HE NEEDS FIVE GAMES NEXT YEAR!!!
Whatever
December 7th, 2009
6:38 pm
NHS- just stating that Robins & HOCO do not have a feeder school. Only Northside. How fair is that? I know it is up to the HC BOE, the new school should have built north of Watson blvd. Is thus have occured, the NHS football program would greatly suffer.
BJohnDawg
December 7th, 2009
6:38 pm
I graduated from Camden County in 1978. Yes I am an old fart.
We went undefeated in the regular season in 75. Lost to the awesome Americus team 19-0.
In the 80s and 90s had some winning playoff seasons in AA.
There have always been players in Camden. Even when there was only 13,000 people living in the county.
Today the population is over 50,000. Some folks on this blog think that one high school pulling from a population of 50k gives Camden an advantage. I live in Gwinnett county now. And I know that North Gwinnett pulls students from a population of WAY more than 50K.As does Parkview, and MIll Creek. So I dont think there is an advantage to getting students from BRowntown and Waverly with a combined population of 600 people.
Charlton county use to play Camden every year. They scrimmage now and I tell you, they give Camden all they can handle. Some years winning the scrimmages just like they use to win some in the past when they played every year. Charlton county has a great program. Just a small school.
Camden has a great program. Great coaching, great players. Their program can be duplicated in other counties and schools. It has nothing to do with the fact that Savannah does not care about high school football and field weak teams.Put Camden in any region and they would be fine.
I dont think they have the greatest program of the decade. I think You could agrue for Parkview, NSWR,Lowndes,Buford, quite a few schools. But they are in the top 5.
And todd the reason they win…is because they excell. It has nothing to do with soft region schedule. They win out of region, they win out of state.They win in the Corky Bell, They win in the Dome, they win in Valdosta, they win in Sugar Hill( North Gwinnett) Put them in Russia…and they would be a great program.They cannot help where they are located in the state, nor the competition in their area. ***They have no control over that**** The debate that ” well they dont have injuries so that is why they win is Crap, they have injuries like any team. Last year their key back was hurt. Ean Days a junior stepped up and he was the man. Injuries happen to any team.
Every year they travel 6 + hours to the dome,and they seem to do quite well. Every year they play a game or two way from home in the playoffs, and they seem to do well. When they won in 2002….they won it on Valdosta’s stadium as the visitor.One year Lowndes won the championship , I think they played every game except the Dome at home.Not one person said ” Well they did not have to travel to play, so they are just an average team. No, they were Lowndes so they got credit for being good. Camden does the same and somehow they have an unfair advantage. I dont know what more a team can do to prove themselves. But your guys lay your hat on whatever you can find. Reminds me of the Tech fans who say ” oh if Nesbitt had not been hurt we would have beat Georgia or ” if Tech had enough time to run their regular run offense we would not have had to pass and then we would have beat Georgia.”
Hogwash.
Whatever
December 7th, 2009
6:43 pm
Sorry about spelling.