Program of the decade? Camden, Northside stake claims
Northside and Camden County will play on Saturday for the Class AAAAA championship.
Is this also for the title of ”football program of the decade”?
Let’s look at the candidates:
Northside: 121-13 record this decade, two state titles, two runner-up finishes, but is it significant that the titles were won in Class AAAA, below the highest level?
Camden Couty: 120-13 record this decade, two state titles, but are Camden’s W-L record and playoff draws enhanced from playing in the state’s weakest Class AAAAA region?
Lowndes: Three state titles and six championships in the state’s toughest region, but does that make up for having only 106 victories this decade and a 2-4 record vs. Camden County?
Buford: 137-7 record this decade and five state titles, with a sixth possible, but how do you compare AA vs. AAAAA?
Is there another program that deserves consideration? Parkview? LaGrange? Charlton County?
As far as the other finals, there are no great surprises that I see except Clarke Central. Great job by Leroy Ryals in reviving a program that hasn’t been in a title game since 1992. Sandy Creek also deserves some recognition. An early loss conspired to keep this team out of the limelight until it counts.
All the finalists from AAA down have been ranked No. 1 or No. 2 at some point this season. I’d say Sandy Creek is a solid favorite to win AAAA, but the rest of the finals are toss-ups.
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420 comments Add your comment
NHS (Northside High School)
December 6th, 2009
11:38 pm
MarkTwain is dead.
CAMDENCOAST
December 6th, 2009
11:42 pm
Opinion, I guess I don’t get your point. It is not and never has been about classification in Ga sports. Valdosta was/is the man because of what they did in the highest classification at the time. Noone would have cared if they had been AA. Ask Buford whom you are defending. They have made a great run for years there is no denying that, and noone cares except Buford. You can shout all you want to but very few will listen.
spwhite
December 6th, 2009
11:46 pm
Whats the parking situation like around the Dome? We plan on coming up Sat and heading back after the game.
EagleNationRising
December 6th, 2009
11:47 pm
HSFootballFan: I would honestly give Buford more credit if they actually played someone. For instance, Charlton County has some geographical challenges. Buford is in the same county as many teams that are ranked nationally every season. Still, Buford dodges competition.
Don’t tell me that Cecil Flowe and Parkview was afraid of Buford or anyone else. Don’t tell me that it is so difficult to get a game against Brookwood. Why not play a Peachtree Ridge, Grayson, or North Gwinnett. You have very strong programs in the same county as Buford. Heck, Stephenson loves playing smaller classification schools.
I really can not speak for Gwinnett County programs in means of a fan following. However, it would seem logical that a program like Buford would bring fans. Therefore, they are a desirable opponent for any Gwinnett program, especially because most Atlanta programs have weak fanbases.
Buford has dodged competition. There is no way that Buford would dominate larger programs in Gwinnett. This entire board knows my opinions about AAAAA programs in metro Atlanta, the titans of mediocrity.
CAMDENCOAST
December 6th, 2009
11:47 pm
NHS, You forgot Woodbine. What is the *** for? Are they stars for the team of the decade? I do agree though, yall should drop the WR. We are going to change our name to Camden – St. Kingsbine.
HSFootballFan
December 6th, 2009
11:48 pm
CAMDENCOAST, I’m pretty sure that plenty of people in Texas and Ohio cared about Buford after watching their teams get destroyed. Buford has plenty of National exposure which is why they’ve finished nationally ranked in the top 35 in the country the last two years.
NHS (not Camden-StMarys-Kingland-Woodbine)
December 6th, 2009
11:50 pm
Asterick * is for unfair advantage (big school and automatic #1 seed)
EagleNationRising
December 6th, 2009
11:50 pm
The Georgia Dome has plenty of parking. It is a zoo for events that sell out the place…events that bring 70,000+. To me the parking is manageable for high school events. However, I will use MARTA. You could easily park at one of the park and ride locations, such as Lindbergh Station and take the train to the Dome.
The games are broken up by classification. The AAAAA game is proceeded by the AAA game, to my knowledge. Therefore, you should be able to find parking.
Opinion
December 6th, 2009
11:50 pm
Well, so far it appears that only four or five people are even sharing their opinions on here. Thus far you, EagleNation and NHS appear to be erring on the side of bigger = better and a couple of other people are on the other side. Not really sure there is a right answer but debating between five people is definitely not enough to make anything conclusive.
Todd Holcomb
December 6th, 2009
11:52 pm
Re: Buford: I meant best program, not best teams. It’s what you do with what you have. On the other hand, a state championship in the highest class is still more impressive than one in AA. So it’s up to you to determine the conversion rate from AA to AAAAA. I guess the way I’d ask it is, what is more impressive? Going 137-7 and winning 5 or 6 state titles at AA, or winning 3 at AAAAA and winning 121 games (or 106 in the case of Lowndes).
Re: decade: I’m talking 2000-09, not 2001-10.
‘’Speaking of being sensitive, thanks for not putting the WR behind our name for this article, cause we are a little sensitive about that.’’
Thanks for the compliment because I really do try to avoid the Northside-Warner Robins thing. Unfortunately, it’s part of AJC and AP style in things like rankings and scores, but when I can, I try to say Northside, or Northside of Warner Robins, and not Northside-Warner Robins.
Re: Predictions: I make predictions for fun. Sometimes I look smart; other times I look dumb. I can give you great examples of both. I take the job of ranking teams more importantly than the job of predicting games. That’s not to say I’m any good at either job, but I work much harder at the rankings.
EagleNationRising
December 6th, 2009
11:52 pm
Calling Buford the team of the decade in the state of Georgia would be like calling Boise State the college program of the decade. Give me a break!
I don’t know how you guys can get worked up over the Northside, Camden County, Lowndes County debate. Every program could make a logical argument. Let’s see what happens on the field. Team of the decade conversations usually work themselves out.
NHS (not Camden-StMarys-Kinglands-Woodbine)
December 6th, 2009
11:53 pm
Warner Robins was named for an AF General. What is the origin of Camden, Kingsland and St Marys
HSFootballFan
December 6th, 2009
11:55 pm
EagleNationRising, Buford has tried to schedule local AAAAA schools for years. They got Central for two years, but after that nobody else would play them which is why they had play a 5A school from farther away before having to go out of state for games. The coaches actually mentioned how they didn’t want to go out of state a second year in a row, but had no choice due to the inability to fill their last game. Buford used to play North Gwinnett every year back in the day, but when that rivalry finally ended nobody has been really enthusiastic about playing them… It’s understandable that the bigger schools would be kind of reluctant: It’s a very difficult game with not much glory in it, even if they win.
Todd Holcomb
December 6th, 2009
11:55 pm
Opinion: My answer would be that the Northside-Camden winner would be the choice over Lowndes. With Buford, I’d have to think further about it. Six state titles and a 138-7 record would be just ridiculous no matter what level. Even when Valdosta won 7 in the 1960s, Valdosta had a bad team or two. Every Buford team has been outstanding. I also like the idea that Northside could win AAAAA w/ AAAA enrollment this fall. Might have to wait until I watch the games this weekend.
yo
December 6th, 2009
11:56 pm
wildcat fan
December 6th, 2009
8:54 pm
12-3 against the SEC of HIGHSCHOOL FOOTBALL 1- AAAAA
Simply shows what Camden’s record might resemble in region 1-AAAAA.
That would be considerably less wins and considerably less Region championships. In a 5 team region that would be an average of 1 loss a year.
Now credit to Camden on the other hand in that they are definitely one of the best programs in the state. Can’t be denied.
Todd Holcomb
December 6th, 2009
11:56 pm
btw, Camden isn’t playing in the Corky Kell Classic next year. We’ll miss seeing them.
CAMDENCOAST
December 6th, 2009
11:58 pm
NHS, I would agree with the * if we had anyway of choosing the region we play in. Kind of like the steriod issue they have a choice of taking drugs. We don’t have a choice and don’t tell me Northside would not trade regions with us. You can claim you like region 1 and I would too if we were in it. But you would change the situation if you could. It does give us number 1 seed, but again an * is wrong to these kids who play and win these tough playoff games in a region that the GHSA put them in .
the real OLD GOLD
December 7th, 2009
12:01 am
Calhoun under Coach Hal Lamb has won 68 straight region games, and will be making its 3rd State Championship game appearance this decade next week against Buford. Calhoun has been in the State playoffs every year since 2000 and has won 9 straight region titles this decade. Total domination.
Opinion
December 7th, 2009
12:01 am
Boise State plays in the same classification as USC, Florida, LSU, etc…That is not the same point at all. Camden isn’t going to play Buford or any other lower clasasification team to determine the state championship are they? No, they play the teams that are on their classification level. Had Boise State won more national championships than USC or Florida than I would say that Boise State was the program of the decade. You continue to place the rankings of best team above those of best program. Who has a better football program? The University of Florida or the Atlanta Falcons, who have never had back to back winning seasons. Now, which team is the better team?
CAMDENCOAST
December 7th, 2009
12:03 am
Todd, Why are we not playing the classic? Were we not asked or did we choose to decline? I know the fans love going to the dome in August.
JayBo
December 7th, 2009
12:04 am
Ok Todd, you are right we the champioship games this weekend and next year. So to date then the team of the decade is Lowndes with their 3 rings. This weekend will determine who is tied with Lowndes at 3 rings. Who beat who in head to head battles dont even matter people…its rings that count!! All these W-L records dont even matter. Also, there is no big difference in in the top two classifications.
However, there is one blogger who I will not name who criticized TCC’s 5 championships of the 90’s(did so a couple of years ago) saying that they were not in the largest classification.(at the time AAAA was the largest and TCC won in AAA). Now this same person wants to argue that there isn’t that much of difference in AAAAA and AAAA…make up your mind. Don’t change your tune now b/c you want to bring your team up in this decade discussion…be consistent!
NHS (not Camden-StMarys-Kingsland-Woodbine)
December 7th, 2009
12:05 am
I think it is a consensus of Northside and Camden fans on here. Of couse were are prejidous since we are not in 2A and we love our Programs. Maybe some neutral folks will show up tommorrow, check back then.
EagleNationRising
December 7th, 2009
12:08 am
Opinion: I have answered the question thoroughly and explained my reasoning. I do not know what else you need. I do not believe that Buford is even in play in this conversation. I do not even believe that Buford is the best program in Gwinnett County this decade. I would take Parkview over Buford any day of the week and during any season this decade.
Lowndes has 3 State Championships, yet have a 3-5 record against the other programs in the conversation. One of their state titles came when Lowndes lost, badly, to the team the Northside beat (Ware County). The Vikings are an impressive 21-5 in the state playoffs.
Camden County is 120-13 and have 2 State Championships. Camden also has a stellar 26-6 playoff record. The Wildcats are also 5-2 against the other programs in the conversation (1-0 this decade against Northside and 4-2 versus Lowndes County).
Northside has 2 State Championships and have won more games than any large classification program (121-13). Northside also has won more state playoff games than any large classification program. The Eagles 27-6 playoff record is the best in Georgia.
I believe that you are looking at some big time horses heading to the stretch. We will not know who is the team of the decade until the decade is complete. That is my answer Opinion. It is too close to call right now. Northside and Camden are neck and neck with Lowndes right there.
Buford is not in the conversation under any circumstances. Mt. Olive is not the team of the decade because they have more National Championships in Division III. Georgia Southern has 6 National Championships. Georgia, Florida, and Florida State have fewer National Championships. Nonetheless, they are better programs in every way.
CAMDENCOAST
December 7th, 2009
12:09 am
Opinion, What sport do you follow? It sure isn’t football on any level because your reasoning makes no since. Again, explain all you want too…noone is going to claim Buford the program of the decade because they play in AA. If they want to be crowned they can choose to play up. ‘yes they have won in AA. We all understand what you are trying to say.
spwhite
December 7th, 2009
12:10 am
Who is playing in the classic next year? Seems to me a great match up would be Camden and Lowndes to start the season. Espcially if Camden wins state this year.
Program of the decade? Camden, Northside stake claims | Prep Zone … School
December 7th, 2009
12:11 am
[...] View post: Program of the decade? Camden, Northside stake claims | Prep Zone … [...]
JayBo
December 7th, 2009
12:12 am
NHS,
I’m here and I’m not from Camden, NS, or Lowndes! Lowndes has the lead right now b/c they have 3 titles. The winner this weekend will be in a tie with Lowndes. No no no, AA cannot be compared to AAAAA and AAAA….the level of competition is not even close.
Bodog
December 7th, 2009
12:12 am
THIS BLOG IS NOT ABOUT AAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THERE ARE OTHER CLASSES JUST AS GOOD IN THEIR CLASS AS ANYBODY IN AAAAA…….IF—-YOU ARE GOING TO PLAY ON LEVEL FIELD YOU CANNOT SAY JUST ONE CLASS HAS DONE IT ALL—–
‘NUF SAID……..
Opinion
December 7th, 2009
12:12 am
Haha, that is the most flawed reasoning I have ever read. Todd answered my question, anyway. He clearly meant program, not team.
EagleNationRising
December 7th, 2009
12:16 am
Who is a better program this decade, Opinion? NCAA Division II Grand Valley State with 4 National Championships or Florida, LSU, or Souther Cal with 2 National Championships? Does that fit your requirement? If you are going to say that Grand Valley is better than Florida, LSU, or Southern Cal, we are going to have to have you examined.
This discussion is useless. I know that Buford is not better than the top AAA or AAAA programs. Todd Holcomb put Buford in the conversation because he had to for the sake of the AJC.
NHS (not Camden-StMarys-Kingsland-Woodbine)
December 7th, 2009
12:19 am
A Thomas County Central fan says no to Buford. We finally get to play TCC next year, should be fun
NHS (not Camden-StMarys-Kingsland-Woodbine)
December 7th, 2009
12:22 am
Todd put Buford in because he likes to shop at the Mall of Georgia
ugh...
December 7th, 2009
12:24 am
Does anyone here have any analytical skills at all? This is not a debate on the best team of the decade is it? It is a debate on what is the best PROGRAM! To quote Todd. “I meant best program, not best teams. It’s what you do with what you have.”
HSFootballFan
December 7th, 2009
12:25 am
EagleNationRising, I don’t think that comparison is valid. To compare Buford to Mt. Olive because they play in AA isn’t fair… A D-III team has inferior players compared to a D-I team. If you look at the players Buford has had over the last 10 years, they are probably one of if not the most talented team in the state. They have had tons of 3, 4 and 5 star athletes come out of there. Would coaches like Charlie Weis and Urban Meyer personally visit the school if they didn’t have some serious talent? Florida, Georgia, Auburn, GT, Notre Dame, LSU, Ole Miss, Oregon, Florida State, South Carolina, West Virginia, North Carolina and South Florida are just some of the schools that have given Buford players scholarships over the last few years. You can argue that the competition in AA is lighter, but you can’t say that Buford has had less talent than any other team in the state.
wait wait wait
December 7th, 2009
12:26 am
How do you know that Buford is not as good a program as the top AAA or AAAA programs? Because they can’t beat them? Does that make a team a better program?
NHS (not Camden-StMarys-Kingsland-Woodbine)
December 7th, 2009
12:26 am
All 4 of the canidates do good with what they have, we are discussing the tie-breakers
JayBo
December 7th, 2009
12:31 am
NHS,
Yea looks like we will be battling those high flying eagles the next few years in the same region. I am just hoping we can stay on the field with you guys…LOL!!! You’re right, should be fun.
Opinion
December 7th, 2009
12:32 am
I am of the opinion that a program is based on winning and losing. The programs that win the most are the best programs. I never said that the best programs were the best teams because their is obviously a level of competition issue that clouds the conversation. But, Todd asked who was the best program of the decade. And, regardless of whether they could beat a AAA, AAAA, or a AAAAA team Buford has been the winningest program of the decade. That is not a debatable fact. Find a team that has won more state football championships this decade, has a better winning percentage and has a better playoff winning percentage and the argument gets close, especially if that team is in a better classification. But, being in a higher classification is not justification for losing more championships or conversely not winning more. As a team you are only as good as your classification. As a program, you are only as good as your results.
NHS (not Camden-StMarys-Kingsland-Woodbine)
December 7th, 2009
12:33 am
Whats TCC looking like for next year? We are bringing a lot back including QB and running backs.
Opinion
December 7th, 2009
12:34 am
*there not their….sorry about the grammatical error
EagleNationRising
December 7th, 2009
12:36 am
JayBo: Either team can make the argument. I can say when Lowndes County won some of their 3 State Championships in this decade the Vikings were not the best team in the state. The problems with the Lowndes County argument are glaring.
First, Lowndes County did not even reach the state playoffs during one season this decade. Therein lie some serious problems! How are you the team of the decade, playing bridge at the house and watching girls’ basketball during the state playoffs. 2004 saw the Vikings dominate the state in the manner a top program should. The 2005 season is where it gets a little shaky. Lowndes wins the state championship, but loses to a AAAA program that lost in the 1st Round? Seriously? Then the Vikings win it again in 2007 after losing at home to Harrison. With all due respect to the Hoyas, Harrison is far from a standard bearing program in this state.
The Vikings 21-5 playoff record this decade is not the best or even the second best. The playoffs are the ultimate test of a team’s strength. So Lowndes is not the best state playoff team, one would have to look at how Lowndes performs during the season. Even by that barometer, Lowndes is not the best or even the second best.
Then, one must look at what Lowndes County does in head-to-head matchups against the state’s best. 3-5 is not what we would expect from the decade’s best program. Look Lowndes is special. It is just hard to say that they are the best. Lowndes has won more State Championships. However, if you are going strictly on that barometer, one should join the Buford crowd.
Hey, all the programs are strong. Something tells me that we will know who wears the crown by the end of this decade.
JayBo
December 7th, 2009
12:38 am
Lets go Calhoun Yellow Jackets(my wife’s H.S)!! Will be in the dome on friday to witness the big rematch with buford. I really hope Calhoun can do it this time…..but I don’t know!!! I do know this…that receiver Da’rick Rogers from Calhoun is the real deal…probably the best player in GA and is a GA Bulldog commit!!!
ImaTitleTownBaby
December 7th, 2009
12:39 am
1. Northside
2. Camden
3. Lowndes
4. Buford
EagleNationRising
December 7th, 2009
12:40 am
Any insights, Opinion? Grand Valley with their 4 NCAA Division II National Champions or a program like Florida, LSU, or Southern Cal with 2 National Championships this decade. I would take one of the programs with 2 National Championships. Of course, that is subjective. You are welcome to take Grand Valley.
We saw what happened to a Gwinnett County program ranked in the top ten in the nation when that Gwinnett County program faced strong opponents from South of the Gnat line. Peachtree Ridge went 0-2 and lost to Lowndes County 51-17. Peachtree Ridge would crush Buford.
Comparing Buford to the likes of Lowndes County, Camden County, and Northside is a borderline sin.
EagleNationRising
December 7th, 2009
12:44 am
JayBo: I have not seen Rogers. I hope he is as good as advertised. We (Georgia) certainly need him. I hope he can make an immediate impact in the same manner Greg Reid (the best player in Georgia last year) did at Florida State.
I had an opportunity to see Akex Ogletree from Newnan. He is as good as I have seen. The best player that I have seen is the young man (#4) from Colquitt County. If Rogers is anything like that, we are in for a treat over the next few years in Athens.
Program of the decade? Camden, Northside stake claims | Prep Zone … School’s Rate
December 7th, 2009
12:48 am
[...] more here: Program of the decade? Camden, Northside stake claims | Prep Zone … By admin | category: best schools | tags: also-the-fact, babson-college, class-rooms, [...]
JayBo
December 7th, 2009
12:51 am
I hear ya eagle…..but I respectively disagree!!! I still say the rings alone should be the baramoter just like the pros!!! Now I already said buford is out of the discussion b/c of the level of competition in AA. Man you’re gonna try to adjust and slant your view towards NS anyway you can…but its all good!!! If NS wins this wwekend, they are tied with Lowndes in my opinion.
NHS,
We are looking strong next year on both sides of the ball…lost 3 starters on offense…all lineman, and 4 on defense( a DE and 3 DB’s). We should have a serious sqaud and the upcoming 9th grade team hve not lost in 2 years winning by a 21 point avg…man I’m sounding like you know who from NS..I better quit..LOL!!!
JayBo
December 7th, 2009
12:55 am
Eagle,
Wow we have something in common afterall…I am a Bulldog fan as well. Yea I ‘ve seen Rogers play a few times now…trust me he is the real deal…kid’s a beast. Dont knw about his academics, but if thats cool, he will play as a true freshman and make an impact!!!
Opinion
December 7th, 2009
12:58 am
The problem with comparing GrandValley is the same as comparing Florida, LSU, USC. What is the goal of a program if it is not to win championships. Does winning an SEC championship constitute a successful program? If not then Florida has won 2 Championships in ten years. As a team there is no doubt that they are far superior. But, as a program they have failed 8 times and not failed twice. Ask Urban Meyer or Les Miles or any other D-I coach what their goal is at the beginning of the season and they will undoubtedly declare that it is to win the national championship. Tebow wasn’t crying because he only lost the SEC Championship, but also because he knew that there was no chance at a National title. Titles are the measure of a program. Is Grand Valley a better program than Florida is in college football? If I take Todd’s definition of it’s about the best program, not best teams. It’s what you do with what you have. If value is quantified outside of title importance than that is a different case. Florida, for instance, places many more students in the NFL than any Div II or Div III or lower team does. If one is judging program status on that than that is different. Florida also graduates far less than those schools do, which can also be a justification for program success. My opinion is that the best programs are the most successful programs, meaning the ones that win the most championships. Is Florida a better team? Yep. Is LSU a better team? Yes. In fact, most if not all, Div-I teams are going to be better teams, but not exactly better programs. Is Vandy a better team than Georgia Southern who won a few championships recently? Yes. Are they a better program. No way. The Florida, LSU vs. Grand Valley is a better argument but you are still debating team verus program where I am using Todd’s definition to judge program versus program. There are not exactly right answers to opinionated questions. My questions and answers are both opinions, not facts.
Opinion
December 7th, 2009
1:12 am
Look, it is all just opinions. I am a UGA grad who happens to think that we have a great program. But, I am realistic to the point where I understand that we are not a dominant program or even a program that can claim any championship in recent history, outside of the two SEC Championships. Does that make a team that won only one championship a better program? That is where my logic gets flawed. While I would want to argue that the one championship does warrant that, I can’t. In the last 20 years Georgia Tech has one national championship while we have zero. But, we have thoroughly dominated them and outperformed them so dramatically that they can not possibly claim to be of equal program status. The four teams in question were all relatively close statistically with the team from Buford having more state championships with a possibility of increasing that. They have consistently been a dominant team against their opposition. And, they have been the most successful overall. That is how I based the decision. Not on who was the better team.