Georgia High School Football Daily Spotlight: Reclassification in Class AAAAA — Will Camden move to Region 1?
The Georgia High School Association will place schools in regions for the 2010-14 academic years on Dec. 2. Each day this week, the GHSF Daily staff is going to look at a different classification and tell you how we’d do the regions, starting with Class AAAAA.
These are not projections. We’d have more luck predicting the exact scores of every game this week than how the GHSA will divide up the regions. Our goal is simply to bring to light some of the questions and challenges that define the GHSA’s task next week.
Here’s how we’d do Class AAAAA:
1-AAAAA (6 teams)
Camden County (moved from 3-AAAAA)
Coffee
Colquitt County
Lowndes
Tift County
Valdosta (playing up)
Going down: Houston County, Northside, Warner Robins
Notes: Four current 1-AAAAA schools were assigned to Class AAAA because of declining enrollment. Schools may choose to play in higher classes than the ones they’ve been assigned. We expect Valdosta to play up while the Houston County schools (Warner Robins, Northside, Houston County) play in AAAA. Do we think the GHSA is going to put Camden County in this region? We’ll believe it when we see it. But here’s the logic: The average road trip for Camden County in the new Region 1-AAAAA would be 121 miles. The average trip in Region 3-AAAAA would be 107 miles. But in 1-AAAAA, there are only five opponents. Let’s do the math: Five road trips times 121 miles is 606. Seven road trips times 107 miles is 749. In other words, Camden will travel less in a six-team Region 1-AAAAA than an eight-team Region 3-AAAAA. We realize that Camden pays many Savannah schools to give up their home football games and come to Camden, but that’s irrelevant because the travel for the region overall is the same whether Savannah comes to Camden County or vice-versa. GHSF Daily asked Camden County football coach and athletics director Jeff Herron about his school moving to Region 1. His answer: “I still don’t see how we could with the consideration we must give to the other sports. It would force all of our other sports to play all of their games on the weekends [because of long travel on week days]. But, with that few of schools [in Region 1], the region schedule might be easier to pull off. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens.”
2-AAAAA (7)
Luella
M.L. King
Newton
Redan (playing up)
Shiloh (moved from 8-AAAAA)
South Gwinnett (moved from 8-AAAAA)
Stephenson (playing up)
Going down: Douglass, Greenbrier, Union Grove
Notes: Five of the eight current Region 2 schools have been dropped to AAAA, leaving Luella, M.L. King and Newton as the only legitimate AAAAA schools. We suspect Stephenson and Redan will play up and remain with M.L. King, their DeKalb County neighbor. We see Douglass, Greenbrier and Union Grove taking the plunge, although Union Grove might want to stay with fellow Henry County school Luella. Regardless, the big question is how to fill out this depleted region. There are two ways to do it: One is to merge what’s left of Region 2 with what’s left of Region 4, as both regions lost significant membership. That would form a catch-all southside metro Atlanta region that stretches 67 miles from Newnan to Covington. The alternative? Force some Gwinnett County schools to join. Those Gwinnett schools that border DeKalb (in order of the likelihood of joining Region 4) are South Gwinnett, Shiloh, Parkview, Meadowcreek and Norcross. It’s only 42 miles from Luella to South Gwinnett. Also don’t rule out Brookwood and Grayson, though neither borders DeKalb.
3-AAAAA (7)
Beach (playing up)
Bradwell Institute (playing up)
Groves (playing up)
Jenkins (playing up)
Johnson, Savannah (playing up)
Savannah (playing up)
Windsor Forest (playing up)
Moved: Camden County (to 1-AAAAA)
Notes: It’s expected that the seven Savannah-area schools will play up again, leaving this region intact except for the possible move of Camden County to Region 1. One source in Savannah told us that even Richmond Hill from Class AAA and Benedictine from AA are considering AAAAA. If that happens, the GHSA will have even more reason to put Camden County – which is isolated in the southeast corner of the state – in Region 1.
4-AAAAA (8)
Campbell (from 6-AAAAA)
East Coweta
Langston Hughes (new to AAAAA)
Marietta (from 5-AAAAA)
Newnan
Pebblebrook
South Cobb (from 5-AAAAA)
Westlake
Going down: Chapel Hill, Lovejoy, Morrow, Mundy’s Mill, Riverdale
Notes: Region 4 picked up Langston Hughes from South Fulton but lost four Clayton County schools, plus Chapel Hill, so it needs rebuilding. Unless this region merges with Region 2 (as discussed above), there’s no alternative but to draw from Cobb County schools. Note that Pebblebrook, a school in south Cobb, already competes in Region 2. South Cobb is the most eligible candidate. After that, we picked Marietta and Campbell, but McEachern and Hillgrove are suspects, too.
5-AAAAA (8)
Cherokee
Etowah
Harrison
Hillgrove (new to AAAAA)
Kennesaw Mountain
McEachern
North Cobb
Woodstock
Going down: East Paulding
Moved: Marietta, South Cobb (to 4-AAAAA)
Notes: Region 5 would love for the GHSA to let Hillgrove (promoted) replace East Paulding (demoted) and let that be that. But holes in regions 4 and 2 make this complicated. Southern Cobb County schools such as South Cobb, McEachern and Marietta are nervous that they will be moved to Region 4. Meanwhile, the Cherokee County schools (Cherokee, Etowah, Woodstock) might hope those Cobb schools remain in Region 5, freeing them up to play in a region with Forsyth County and North Fulton schools.
6-AAAAA (9)
Alpharetta
Centennial
Chattahoochee (playing up)
Lassiter
Milton
Northview
Roswell
Walton
Wheeler
Going down: Kell, Pope
Moved: Campbell (to 4-AAAAA)
Notes: Kell and Pope are now AAAA material, and they might be content to play in the smaller class because East Marietta neighbor Sprayberry already is there. But they also have strong rivalries with Walton and Lassiter in all sports and might choose to remain in AAAAA. Campbell, a Cobb school that’s the geographical odd ball in the current 6-AAAAA, could end up in Region 5 or even Region 4. Also pay attention to Chattahochee, a North Fulton team that was demoted to AAAA. The largest school not assigned to AAAAA, Chattahoochee has reason to play up and compete with most of the other North Fulton schools (Alpharetta, Centennial, Chattahoochee, Northview and Roswell).
7-AAAAA (9)
Collins Hill
Duluth
Mill Creek
Mountain View (new to AAAAA)
Norcross
North Forsyth
North Gwinnett
Peachtree Ridge
West Forsyth (new to AAAAA)
Going down: Chattahoochee, South Forsyth
Notes: This might be a simple trade of Chattahoochee and South Forsyth for Mountain View and West Forsyth. But if Region 8 loses a couple of southern Gwinnett teams, those most subject to moving from 7 to 8 are (in order) Norcross, Duluth, Peachtree Ridge, Collins Hill and Mountain View. Meanwhile, North Forsyth and West Forsyth would prefer to play with North Fulton and Cherokee schools, so there could be a shift in that direction. Current region member Chattahoochee was dropped to AAAA but could play up, but we’re putting the ‘Hooch in 6-AAAAA for now.
8-AAAAA (8)
Archer (playing up)
Berkmar
Brookwood
Central Gwinnett
Dacula
Grayson
Meadowcreek
Parkview
Moved: Shiloh, South Gwinnett (to 2-AAAAA)
Notes: Archer, which opened this year in Gwinnett County, is the second-largest school assigned to AAAAA and might opt to play in this Gwinnett-dominated region rather than AAAA. Gwinnett would love to have two regions of nine Gwinnett schools each. Lanier High will open as Gwinnett’s 18th school next year and would project to go in Region 7. But the trouble is the void in Region 2 with DeKalb and Newton county schools. See Region 2 notes for that explanation. South Gwinnett and Shiloh are anxious. Also keep an eye on Stephenson and Redan. If those DeKalb schools choose to leave AAAAA, then Region 8 could simply absorb M.L. King, Luella and Newton but at the expense of sending a few of its current members over to 7-AAAAA, setting off a domino effect that could open the door for a Forsyth-Cherokee-North Fulton region.
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273 comments Add your comment
grayram
November 24th, 2009
4:55 pm
I have to agree with Bart about Newnan.
They are good and don’t get enough respect.
Facts
November 24th, 2009
4:55 pm
As of 342pm. Stephenson is going to play up in AAAAA
SportsFan31313
November 24th, 2009
4:56 pm
EagleNationRising States:
Sportsfan: I told you. To suggest that Camden County move to Region 1-AAAAA is absolutely absurd!
Greetings ENR,
I understand that Todd Holcomb suggested that Camden County is 107 miles away from Savannah (or something in that area) and Lowndes are 121 miles away from Camden County. If this is accurate, we are talking a few cents on a dollar if that is the case.
SportsFan31313
November 24th, 2009
4:58 pm
Schools Opting to “Play Up” (Updated 11/24/09 3:42pm)
To AAAAA
Archer (from AAAA)
Benedictine (from AA)
Bradwell Institute (from AAAA)
Stephenson (from AAAA)
To AAAA
North Clayton High School (from AAA)
Jonesboro (from AAA)
Marist (from AA)
Wayne County (from AAA)
To AAA
Davidson Fine Arts (from A)
Dougherty High School (From AA)
Glenn Hills (from AA)
Harlem High School (from AA)
Henry County High School (from AA)
Johnson, Augusta (from A)
Josey (from AA)
Towers (from AA)
grayram
November 24th, 2009
4:59 pm
SportsFan31313
Bart is one of the guys who thinks everything is a conspiracy. He made some documentaries claiming the apollo spacecraft never landed on the moon and it was all a hoax.
ENR thinks everything is a conspiracy by north georgia media or north georgia football boards.
SportsFan31313
November 24th, 2009
5:02 pm
grayram,
Oh Ok Gotcha….
DaveDawg96
November 24th, 2009
5:04 pm
Still, wouldn’t the Hooch kids rather play their north Fulton neighbors? They would be the odd school out, missing out on all the rivalries that surround them.
grayram
November 24th, 2009
5:16 pm
SportsFan31313
First let me say I admire Camden, Lowndes , and NSWR and don’t care at all what region they play in.
What i’m not clear on is why some think Metro Atl schools care or would benefit by Camden being in the same region as the other strong south ga teams. The top 4 go to the playoffs so they are still going to be there. So lets say you win region 4 lets say you are Newnan. By winning that region you are at home and host the 1st round game, this year it was with Valdosta and Newnan won by 19 points. If Camden were in 1AAAAA then Newnan would have been “REWARDED” for winning their region by hosting Colquitt in the 1st round. How does that benefit North Ga teams? It would also guarantee the top two south ga teams not have to play each other until the finals would it not?
SportsFan31313
November 24th, 2009
5:18 pm
No sure Grayram….
cchswildcat86
November 24th, 2009
5:57 pm
why does Stephenson get bashed on these blogs every yr??
spwhite
November 24th, 2009
5:58 pm
Paul Cook – Benedictine beat Camden County in 2000 which was Jeff Herron’s first year at Camden.
I think you just answered why Camden is now so successfull. What did Camden do before the Coach Herron era? Coach Herron comes in puts a program into place gets the kids involved and the rest is history!!!!! The enrollment was already there, just not utilized to its full potential.
grayram
November 24th, 2009
6:53 pm
Sportsfan:
Don’t know why. It does seem like alot of coaches are changing this year
Facts
November 24th, 2009
7:25 pm
DaveDawg96,
NO…the Hooch kids are sick of going up against schools that have 3000+ students when they only have 1850. Not too many people know that Chattahoochee has been split 4 times since it opened in 1992 (Centennial, Northview, Alpharetta, Johns Creek). I cannot think of another school in the state that has had that happen to them.
The Hooch / Johns Creek rivalry will be HUGE with the schools being 2 miles apart and it will only add to the South Forsyth rivalry.
Curious
November 24th, 2009
7:37 pm
Todd, I thought the GHSF Daily Staff was going to look at a new classification each day this week. Where is AAAA?
That Guy
November 24th, 2009
8:21 pm
Curious,
I’m with you. This AAAAA talk is like beating a dead horse. Lets move on.
Chanandler Bong
November 24th, 2009
8:35 pm
I know AAAA seems to be the largest classification in terms of number of schools. I’m curious to see how they sort things out since it doesn’t look like that many schools are petitioning to play up. Only Archer, Benedictine, Bradwell, and Stephenson are playing up. With the Warner Robins schools all playing AAAA now, it will be interesting to see who gets put where.
city slicker
November 24th, 2009
9:57 pm
umm to facts lithonia in dekalb has been split 4 times since 97 with stepheson,mlk,millergrove,arabia mtn,
CDT LTC Alstad
November 24th, 2009
10:14 pm
Logistical support is an integral part of Benedictine’s JROTC program.
SouthGARules
November 24th, 2009
10:28 pm
SportsFan31313: When Bradwell beat Warner Robins in 1996, the Demons were in Region 2. Before 2006, Warner Robins had not played in Region 1 since maybe the 60’s. They have been in regions with Macon & Columbus schools.
SAI LTC J.M.O. III
November 25th, 2009
12:03 am
SAV public schools need to call the ball on this one and land in AAAA
Travel Whinners Take Notice
November 25th, 2009
12:09 am
Georgia is not that large of a state to have so many travel whinners. 120 miles is just an every day trip. FYI. Beaumont to El Paso is 880 miles…now that’s a road trip! So stop the whinning. GHSA has allowed Camden to screw the other AAAAA regions with their automatic #1 seed each year.
KrsKrs
November 25th, 2009
1:07 am
City Slicker… I know for a fact that most if not all of Miller Grove students came from Redan. MLK and Arabia Mountain, probably! But I doubt at Stepehnson a serious portion of kids came from Lithonia, seeing that it is a Stone Mountain school in all I would think it pulled from Redan.
glw
November 25th, 2009
1:57 am
KrsKrs,
I think city slicker is right on that one. Stephenson was originally derived from Redan, Stone Mountain and a small portion of Lithonia. Arabia Mtn is from King and Lithonia, MLK was bore from Lithonia and not sure what other school. And while not totally sure what school MIller Grove was derived from, am pretty sure they got some kids from Lithonia considering that Lithonia is closer than any other high school.
GtG1
November 25th, 2009
7:37 am
One thing you did not consider in your mileage analysis of Camden County is that about 95 of the 107 miles can be traveled by Interstate. Nearly 1/2 the entire travel miles for the 1AAAAA games would be on two lane highways. I’ve lived and worked in South Georgia all my life and have traveled these roads many years and even though I abhor interstate highway travel, it is the safest and fastest way to get from one point to another. These other roads would add at least an hour to the travel time for the visiting school over the current times Camden and 3AAAAA schools have. The additional travel time alone should mark this suggestion for the rubbish heap.
glw
November 25th, 2009
7:48 am
If the Savannah schools choose to play up, then I think you have to keep Camden in Region 3, to at least give some strength to the region. If Camden goes to Region 1, we all know chances are that the #5 and #6 teams in Region 1 would be at least 2nd best team in Region 3. One side note, suppose the GHSA does put Camden in Region 1, dont you think they would petition for a lateral move to Region 3 anyway?
SportsFan31313
November 25th, 2009
11:00 am
SouthGARules States:
SportsFan31313: When Bradwell beat Warner Robins in 1996, the Demons were in Region 2. Before 2006, Warner Robins had not played in Region 1 since maybe the 60’s. They have been in regions with Macon & Columbus schools.
Greetings SouthGARules,
Oh Okay Thanks…..
SportsFan31313
November 25th, 2009
11:02 am
Travel Whinners Take Notice States:
Georgia is not that large of a state to have so many travel whinners. 120 miles is just an every day trip. FYI. Beaumont to El Paso is 880 miles…now that’s a road trip! So stop the whinning. GHSA has allowed Camden to screw the other AAAAA regions with their automatic #1 seed each year.
Greetings Travel Whinners Take Notice,
Well in case you didn’t know, Georgia is the Largest State East Of The Mississippi River with 159 Counties.
Trying to be real
November 25th, 2009
11:27 am
Sports Fan 31313
take a look at your vaunted #3 and 4s from the south, reg seasons and playoff history the past 3-4 years before you make a blind irrational staement about them beating top teams from reg 7 or any other. Example Coffee Co has faired real well—right ?
SportsFan31313
November 25th, 2009
11:36 am
Trying to be real,
I did. And I stand by my statement.
The Man
November 25th, 2009
11:37 am
GRIFFIN IS THE BEST TEAM IN HIGH SCHOOL SPORTS TODAY!!!!!! They need to get the respect they deserve. I am off subject but who cares.
ramtough
November 25th, 2009
12:08 pm
watch out for newton next yr
SportsFan31313
November 25th, 2009
12:14 pm
Travel Whinners Take Notice,
GHSA have the responsibility to aligned the Classifications and Regions. Its is not the Coaches responsibility. With that being said, It is the Coaches Job to win. Coach Jeff Herron at Camden County is doing just that. As long as he is doing that he will be there as long as he wishes. It is the responsibility of the Football Teams, and their Coaching Staff that face Camden County, to try to beat them.So lets not blame Camden Count,y and their Coach for being number 1. They got that from winning.. Blame the losing opponents, and their Coaches for not using their brain, and think up schemes to beat Camden County to get the job done.
crash001
November 25th, 2009
12:15 pm
Grayram – I know you are not referring to Stephenson kids as mere mortals. If you are consider yourself a BIG PUNK. Colquitt County defeated a gifted Stephenson team that is poorly coach. We all know if Stephenson had a coach who would win the State championship in 5-A.
EagleNationRising – How could you refer to a program as being bad if you know NOTHING about what goes into those program, one thing you got right is there are bad coaches.
ramtough
November 25th, 2009
12:43 pm
hopefully our coaching staff learn not to be afraid of the playoff scene play to win play there best players just because your a senior that don’t mean your the best one at that position stop running AK in between the tackles get #5 more involve in the running game get #7 more involve in the passing game and spent the time to learn about the other team Why don’t this team show the kids tape of the team they are going up against rather than them taking the kids to the mall for 4 hrs before game time, man that was a stupid move if the kids want to drive 600 miles to go to the mall let there parents take them, very stupid move coach ( They went that far to only reach that far) Camden is a good team but they are not 30 points better than the newton rams
DaveDawg96
November 25th, 2009
12:53 pm
If we want to play the split game, from Sprayberry came Wheeler (1966), Walton (1976), Lassiter (1981), Pope (1987) and Kell (2003-ish).
Trying to be real
November 25th, 2009
1:12 pm
Sportsfan
Your 3 & 4s faired no better than any one elses. In fact last year Coffe got drummed bty Pridge—your # 1 lost at grayson also. All is good—-Im just saying year in and year out –other than Pridge as a #4 in 06 the top 2 teams in most regions always fight through and on a consistant bases will handle any lower half team from ANY region. I can understand the bold speak –and justifiably so of Lowndes,Camden and NSWR—but after that what is there ?? Have to respect Camden and Lowndes they have earned—-besides the fact there isn’t much more going on in those parts!!!—just kidding. Lets hope for some good ballgames this weekend.
DaveDawg96
November 25th, 2009
2:17 pm
Revised 11-25-09:
1AAAAA (6)
Camden
Coffee
Colquitt County
Lowndes
Tift County
Valdosta
2AAAAA (8)
East Coweta
Langston Hughes
Luella
M.L. King
Newnan
Newton
Stephenson
Westlake
3AAAAA (8)
Beach
Benedictine
Bradwell Institute
Groves
Jenkins
Johnson, Savannah
Savannah
Windsor Forest
4AAAAA (8)
Campbell
Harrison
Hillgrove
Kennesaw Mountain
McEachern
North Cobb
Pebblebrook
South Cobb
5AAAAA (7)
Cherokee
Etowah
Lassiter
Marietta
Walton
Wheeler
Woodstock
6AAAAA (7)
Alpharetta
Centennial
Milton
North Forsyth
Northview
Roswell
West Forsyth
7AAAAA (8)
Collins Hill
Duluth
Meadowcreek
Mill Creek
Mountain View
Norcross
North Gwinnett
Peachtree Ridge
8AAAAA (9)
Archer
Berkmar
Brookwood
Central Gwinnett
Dacula
Grayson
Parkview
Shiloh
South Gwinnett
SWD Panther Paw
November 25th, 2009
2:36 pm
DaveDawg96
Your 5-A mock up look’s very sensible to me. I say GHSA take this and let’s move on
SouthGARules
November 25th, 2009
2:58 pm
Facts: Agreed. Sounds like they are building schools on top of each other in North Fulton, especially east of GA 400. It sounds a lot like South Dekalb where several schools have been built recently.
SportsFan31313: Greetings to you as well, sir. With Liberty County & Bradwell out of the picture, will you be attending any games up to & including the finals?
DaveDawg96: Your proposed regions make a lot of sense. Of course, Regions 5-8 would have an advantage due to travel not being as much. However, some of the Region 6 games could be a beast to travel to (North Fulton schools going up 400 on a Friday is no picnic, though N Forsyth probably love not having to go to Gwinnett)
Happy Thanksgiving to all & safe travels to your games this Friday.
glw
November 25th, 2009
2:59 pm
Dave Dawg
I agree pretty much with your mock regions too. It sets up some good natural rivals considering reclassification only occurs every 4 years now, that helps. But must admit I will be shocked if Camden is placed in Region 1. I think the GHSA will be content with only 5 teams in that region, considering it is usually pretty strong.
Adam
November 25th, 2009
3:41 pm
Allatoona H.S. in Cobb County moving to AAA classification does not make sense. It is a new school so enrollment will grow, in AAA there is not any natural rivalries and they will have to travel long distances to play games. More expenses for the school for gas, time lost, parents not being able to see the games, etc.
grayram
November 25th, 2009
4:20 pm
crash001
No insult to Stephenson was intended. I thought Stephenson may win it all this year.
I was just saying the QB from Lassiter seems to be a special player and good luck to Colquitt trying to stop him.
grayram
November 25th, 2009
4:21 pm
i do like the sound of “BIG PUNK ” its alot better than the “little punk”
that i am usually called!!
yo
November 25th, 2009
4:31 pm
grayram not if the top 2 S. Ga. teams are in the same region.
It does guarantee that one less very good S.Ga. loses out on home field advantage in the playoffs. I think Lowndes proved how important that home field advantage is and the lack of travel that comes with it. Very good teams (still in the playoffs) come to Martin Stadium and lose by 35. Lowndes goes to your house and loses by 3…..twice.
So bringing Camden into 1AAAAA does give an advantage to other regions.
Think of it another way. What if Grayson, Lowndes, N. Gwinnet, Camden, Newnan, Stephenson, Lassiter and Peachtree Ridge were all in the same region.
Would that make it easier on other teams in other regions to get top seeds and into the playoffs?
Would that mean that 4 very good teams would not make it into the playoffs?
The way they used to do home field advantage in the playoffs now seems more fair to me than the way it is now done (coin toss). It used to be they rotated home field advantage from year to year from region to region. S. Ga. teams are definitely on the short end of the stick when it comes to playoffs and traveling, just because of the distance and the amount of AAAAA schools in the northern half of the state.
yo
November 25th, 2009
4:35 pm
Trying to be real hear what you are saying, but Colquit #3 is still playing. This will be their 4th staight week of a “very” long road trip in a row. My gut is this is the week it gets to them.
yo
November 25th, 2009
4:41 pm
Newnan’s lack of offense will show this week…Bye Newnan.
Northside over Peachtree Ridge…bye Ptree.
Colquit logging to many road miles…bye Colquit.
North Gwinnett is the best team now left standing and won the coing toss…bye Camden.
grayram
November 25th, 2009
4:45 pm
yo
I was looking at the bracket when i typed that and was going by the fact that the 1 and 2 seeds from reg 1 are on opposite sides and could not play until the finals. If Camden were in reg 1 (again i’m just asking, i don’t care what reg they are in) the best two s ga teams would be in reg 1 and clear of each other until the finals.
Think of it another way. What if Grayson, Lowndes, N. Gwinnet, Camden, Newnan, Stephenson, Lassiter and Peachtree Ridge were all in the same region.
the probleb with this is those are 8 great teams. I know some think the WHOLE region 1 is strong but its just not the case. NSWR is moving out so as it is now REG 1 has Lowndes, Colquitt, An Average Valdosta and then some also rans. You would not have 8 or even 5 great teams in reg 1 even with Camden. Of course this is all just my opinion and i could surely be wrong.
thanks
grayram
November 25th, 2009
4:48 pm
yo
BTW Lowndes came to our house and lost by a little more than 3
Quinn of the Ridge
November 25th, 2009
8:31 pm
10 to be exact
. Then again, Grayson came to our house the week after, and lost by… well, exactly 3.
yo
November 25th, 2009
8:33 pm
grayram and Quinn of the Ridge thats because you ran up the score at the end.