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Georgia High School Football Daily Spotlight: Reclassification in Class AAAAA — Will Camden move to Region 1?

10:06 am November 23, 2009, by AJC Sports

The Georgia High School Association will place schools in regions for the 2010-14 academic years on Dec. 2. Each day this week, the GHSF Daily staff is going to look at a different classification and tell you how we’d do the regions, starting with Class AAAAA.

These are not projections. We’d have more luck predicting the exact scores of every game this week than how the GHSA will divide up the regions. Our goal is simply to bring to light some of the questions and challenges that define the GHSA’s task next week.

Here’s how we’d do Class AAAAA:

1-AAAAA (6 teams)
Camden County (moved from 3-AAAAA)
Coffee
Colquitt County
Lowndes
Tift County
Valdosta (playing up)

Going down: Houston County, Northside, Warner Robins

Notes: Four current 1-AAAAA schools were assigned to Class AAAA because of declining enrollment. Schools may choose to play in higher classes than the ones they’ve been assigned. We expect Valdosta to play up while the Houston County schools (Warner Robins, Northside, Houston County) play in AAAA. Do we think the GHSA is going to put Camden County in this region? We’ll believe it when we see it. But here’s the logic: The average road trip for Camden County in the new Region 1-AAAAA would be 121 miles. The average trip in Region 3-AAAAA would be 107 miles. But in 1-AAAAA, there are only five opponents. Let’s do the math: Five road trips times 121 miles is 606. Seven road trips times 107 miles is 749. In other words, Camden will travel less in a six-team Region 1-AAAAA than an eight-team Region 3-AAAAA. We realize that Camden pays many Savannah schools to give up their home football games and come to Camden, but that’s irrelevant because the travel for the region overall is the same whether Savannah comes to Camden County or vice-versa. GHSF Daily asked Camden County football coach and athletics director Jeff Herron about his school moving to Region 1. His answer: “I still don’t see how we could with the consideration we must give to the other sports. It would force all of our other sports to play all of their games on the weekends [because of long travel on week days]. But, with that few of schools [in Region 1], the region schedule might be easier to pull off. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens.”

2-AAAAA (7)
Luella
M.L. King
Newton
Redan (playing up)
Shiloh (moved from 8-AAAAA)
South Gwinnett (moved from 8-AAAAA)
Stephenson (playing up)

Going down: Douglass, Greenbrier, Union Grove

Notes: Five of the eight current Region 2 schools have been dropped to AAAA, leaving Luella, M.L. King and Newton as the only legitimate AAAAA schools. We suspect Stephenson and Redan will play up and remain with M.L. King, their DeKalb County neighbor. We see Douglass, Greenbrier and Union Grove taking the plunge, although Union Grove might want to stay with fellow Henry County school Luella. Regardless, the big question is how to fill out this depleted region. There are two ways to do it: One is to merge what’s left of Region 2 with what’s left of Region 4, as both regions lost significant membership. That would form a catch-all southside metro Atlanta region that stretches 67 miles from Newnan to Covington. The alternative? Force some Gwinnett County schools to join. Those Gwinnett schools that border DeKalb (in order of the likelihood of joining Region 4) are South Gwinnett, Shiloh, Parkview, Meadowcreek and Norcross. It’s only 42 miles from Luella to South Gwinnett. Also don’t rule out Brookwood and Grayson, though neither borders DeKalb.

3-AAAAA (7)
Beach (playing up)
Bradwell Institute (playing up)
Groves (playing up)
Jenkins (playing up)
Johnson, Savannah (playing up)
Savannah (playing up)
Windsor Forest (playing up)

Moved: Camden County (to 1-AAAAA)

Notes: It’s expected that the seven Savannah-area schools will play up again, leaving this region intact except for the possible move of Camden County to Region 1. One source in Savannah told us that even Richmond Hill from Class AAA and Benedictine from AA are considering AAAAA. If that happens, the GHSA will have even more reason to put Camden County – which is isolated in the southeast corner of the state – in Region 1.

4-AAAAA (8)
Campbell (from 6-AAAAA)
East Coweta
Langston Hughes (new to AAAAA)
Marietta (from 5-AAAAA)
Newnan
Pebblebrook
South Cobb (from 5-AAAAA)
Westlake

Going down: Chapel Hill, Lovejoy, Morrow, Mundy’s Mill, Riverdale

Notes: Region 4 picked up Langston Hughes from South Fulton but lost four Clayton County schools, plus Chapel Hill, so it needs rebuilding. Unless this region merges with Region 2 (as discussed above), there’s no alternative but to draw from Cobb County schools. Note that Pebblebrook, a school in south Cobb, already competes in Region 2. South Cobb is the most eligible candidate. After that, we picked Marietta and Campbell, but McEachern and Hillgrove are suspects, too.

5-AAAAA (8)
Cherokee
Etowah
Harrison
Hillgrove (new to AAAAA)
Kennesaw Mountain
McEachern
North Cobb
Woodstock

Going down: East Paulding

Moved: Marietta, South Cobb (to 4-AAAAA)

Notes: Region 5 would love for the GHSA to let Hillgrove (promoted) replace East Paulding (demoted) and let that be that. But holes in regions 4 and 2 make this complicated. Southern Cobb County schools such as South Cobb, McEachern and Marietta are nervous that they will be moved to Region 4. Meanwhile, the Cherokee County schools (Cherokee, Etowah, Woodstock) might hope those Cobb schools remain in Region 5, freeing them up to play in a region with Forsyth County and North Fulton schools.

6-AAAAA (9)
Alpharetta
Centennial
Chattahoochee (playing up)
Lassiter
Milton
Northview
Roswell
Walton
Wheeler

Going down: Kell, Pope

Moved: Campbell (to 4-AAAAA)

Notes: Kell and Pope are now AAAA material, and they might be content to play in the smaller class because East Marietta neighbor Sprayberry already is there. But they also have strong rivalries with Walton and Lassiter in all sports and might choose to remain in AAAAA. Campbell, a Cobb school that’s the geographical odd ball in the current 6-AAAAA, could end up in Region 5 or even Region 4. Also pay attention to Chattahochee, a North Fulton team that was demoted to AAAA. The largest school not assigned to AAAAA, Chattahoochee has reason to play up and compete with most of the other North Fulton schools (Alpharetta, Centennial, Chattahoochee, Northview and Roswell).

7-AAAAA (9)
Collins Hill
Duluth
Mill Creek
Mountain View (new to AAAAA)
Norcross
North Forsyth
North Gwinnett
Peachtree Ridge
West Forsyth (new to AAAAA)

Going down: Chattahoochee, South Forsyth

Notes: This might be a simple trade of Chattahoochee and South Forsyth for Mountain View and West Forsyth. But if Region 8 loses a couple of southern Gwinnett teams, those most subject to moving from 7 to 8 are (in order) Norcross, Duluth, Peachtree Ridge, Collins Hill and Mountain View. Meanwhile, North Forsyth and West Forsyth would prefer to play with North Fulton and Cherokee schools, so there could be a shift in that direction. Current region member Chattahoochee was dropped to AAAA but could play up, but we’re putting the ‘Hooch in 6-AAAAA for now.

8-AAAAA (8)
Archer (playing up)
Berkmar
Brookwood
Central Gwinnett
Dacula
Grayson
Meadowcreek
Parkview

Moved: Shiloh, South Gwinnett (to 2-AAAAA)

Notes: Archer, which opened this year in Gwinnett County, is the second-largest school assigned to AAAAA and might opt to play in this Gwinnett-dominated region rather than AAAA. Gwinnett would love to have two regions of nine Gwinnett schools each. Lanier High will open as Gwinnett’s 18th school next year and would project to go in Region 7. But the trouble is the void in Region 2 with DeKalb and Newton county schools. See Region 2 notes for that explanation. South Gwinnett and Shiloh are anxious. Also keep an eye on Stephenson and Redan. If those DeKalb schools choose to leave AAAAA, then Region 8 could simply absorb M.L. King, Luella and Newton but at the expense of sending a few of its current members over to 7-AAAAA, setting off a domino effect that could open the door for a Forsyth-Cherokee-North Fulton region.

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271 comments Add your comment

Kane337

November 23rd, 2009
10:36 am

First!

Kane337

November 23rd, 2009
10:37 am

Go Northside Eagles! What region do you think the Houston County schools will play in AAAA?

Todd Holcomb

November 23rd, 2009
10:40 am

We’re going to look at AAAA on Tuesday. …

btw, I just got word that Stephenson will play up but that Redan probably won’t in AAAAA.

SportsFan31313

November 23rd, 2009
10:55 am

This is hideous. I thought the reason for this was to place teams in the correct classifications with them moving up by one classification if they chose to do so. Here you got Some AAA Savannah Schools playing up in Class AAAAA? This is ludicrous. Where will the strength of Schedule lie?
D#$%, S%$#, F%#$@. Is how mad I am.

THE CANNON RULES!!!

November 23rd, 2009
11:36 am

Here’s hoping East Paulding stays where they are…even with the smaller enrollment they have shown they can play, compete, AND WIN against AAAAA schools. With smaller drive times larger crowds show for both home and away games and this is good for both the kids as well as the schools gate & concession $$$$$.

GO CAMDEN!!!!!

November 23rd, 2009
11:44 am

Todd, why don’t the GHSA let Camden play football in Region 1 and remain in Region 3 for the remainder of the sports?

SportsFan31313

November 23rd, 2009
11:51 am

If Camden County leaves, the competition for Bradwell Institute will be gone unless Bradwell Institute schedule Camden County as a non region game with other outside region 3-AAAAA.
If Bradwell Institute plays all of those Savannah Schools, it will put Bradwell Institute in the same Position that Camden County is in, winning region title after region title after title after region title, with the exception that Bradwell would be one and done every single year once it plays its first post season playoff game. Bradwell Institute will definitely have strengthen their regular season schedule.

EagleNationRising

November 23rd, 2009
12:19 pm

First of all, I can not stress how the metro Atlanta propoganda machine is at work with this article. I bet you guys in metro Atlanta would love to have all of the strong South Georgia programs in one region. Forget about it. Regions are created with more than football in mind.

Let’s do the math? Are you kidding me? Why would the GHSA, place a 121 mile road game within Region 1-AAAAA when the region is just fine without Camden County. You guys at the metro Atlanta propoganda machine, aka the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, aka GHSF only factor in one school in your proposed Region 1-AAAAA. That is Camden County.

Why don’t you guys do the cumulative math for the miles that you created for the other schools in the region. Why do Valdosta, Lowndes County, Coffee, Tift County, and Colquitt County benefit by adding an institution that is 121 miles away. Yes, the distance is about the same for Camden County. However, you have now added a 121 mile road trip for 5 difference high schools in a number of different sports.

You guys should simply scan the copy of the checks that these mediocre Atlanta area coaches send you. That is the dumbest proposal that I have ever heard.

Camden County is going to play in Region 3-AAAAA with the Savannah area schools. The schools in Savannah are not good in football in the AAAAA classification because football is a numbers game and they do not have the student body to draw from. However, every winter, you would be challenged to find 5-10 programs better than the Savannah area schools in basketball.

Todd Holcomb, AJC High School staff, GHSF, you guys shameless promotion of Atlanta area football is pathetic. Camden County to Region 1-AAAAA. You guys could only dream this. I am still waiting for an explanation about how ever second round game rotated from last season’s GHSA AAAAA playoff bracket with the exception of the top team from Region 3-AAAAA (Camden County) playing the second place team from Region 1-AAAAA (Lowndes County this season and Northside last season). What a sham!

EagleNationRising

November 23rd, 2009
12:46 pm

Todd Holcomb, Atlanta Journal-Constitution, and GHSF staff please do us all a favor. For one week take off your metro Atlanta high school skirts off, drop the Atlanta area pom-poms and do some honest reporting about high school football in Georgia. You guys should be ashamed suggesting that the Savannah area schools play in AAAAA yet you send Camden County to Region 1-AAAAA. Who does that help?

Before some math challenged metro Atlanta loving poster comes to the rescue of this guy, let’s do this math. A region includes a number of high school that participate in sports and high school activities like One Act, Forensics (Debate), music, chorus, etc.

Camden County plays seven road games, according to Todd Holcomb. This highlights what lengths this sad staff will go to promote metro Atlanta football. This season Camden County played ONE region road game. ONE. In 2008, Camden County played three total regular season road games and TWO region road games. In 2007, Camden County played TWO region road games. In 2006, the Wildcats played TWO region road games. In 2005, Camden hit the road in the region FIVE road games. In the past five seasons, Camden County’s football team has played 12 region road games. IN 5 YEARS!!!

Come on Todd Holcomb!!! Come on AJC! Does anyone edit this work or do you guys just print whatever you want. Camden County has played 7 Region 3-AAAAA games in the past 4 years. Give us all a break!

So we are going to take a program that generally travels 225-350 miles per season in region play and we are going to place that program in another region where they have to travel an average of 121 miles per road game. We are also going to place Region 1-AAAAA in a situatio where all of the schools have reasonable road trips. We are going to say to heck with those programs. You live in South Georgia. Therefore, you can hit the road and travel across the entire state. That is fair, Todd.

You guys are flat out shameless. Why don’t you guys rename the GHSF Daily into the “Peachtree Ridge Today” or the “Lassiter Observer” or try the “North Gwinnett Gazette.” Therefore, we can all respect you as the metro Atlanta propoganda machine that you are.

7 Road games for Camden County, Todd??? Camden County has only played 7 region road games in four seasons. Monday morning should bring a higer quality level in your work Todd.

SWD Panther Paw

November 23rd, 2009
1:41 pm

EagleNationRising

You aren’t making any sense. Why would you want to subject kid’s in Savannah to play against a school they don’t have any chance of beating…..ever. Look at the record’s……Camden’s average victory against the Savannah school’s is about 50-6 and their record against Bradwell the only decent football program in that region is equally lopsided. Bradwell hasn’t beaten Camden since 1998 and none of those games were close. It’s humilating and doesn’t seem decent or fair to those kid’s at all. The Atlanta Metro school’s has the burden of having so many school’s in one area it dilutes the teams…… Camden and the other South Georgia 5-A school’s have the burden of traveling farther for their games. Who said life was fair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jarmal

November 23rd, 2009
1:48 pm

swd panther paw your right, savannah high and all the savannah teams cant compete in a aaaaa or aaaa for football

Jarmal

November 23rd, 2009
1:52 pm

savannah public schools just dont have it in football,

SportsFan31313

November 23rd, 2009
1:55 pm

SWD Panther Paw,

you are right. I have been quiet on this subject. But I will say this now. Bradwell Institute current Head Coach need to step down. He has been there for at least fifteen years and turn the program to mediocrity. He can’t seem to relate to the players and get him to respond. Prior to him Bradwell Institute season was much better than that the way it is now. Since this is the year for Coaches with a honest conscious to step aside ,and allow a new Coach to take their team by the reigns for a better program, Bradwell Institute coach should do the same. By o means am I asking this coach to just quit because at this day and time everyone need work. But what I will say is that he is a licensed teacher. Go to the classroom and give up coaching at Bradwell Institute. The program will be better off.

VoiceOfReason

November 23rd, 2009
1:56 pm

Dang ENR! Man, you really laid it out for us today….I’m laughin’, but i can’t argue with anything that you’ve posted today….however i have always liked Todd for one reason or another. At some point people need to get over the idea that Camden County and its fans are somehow afraid of region 1 and its teams. Camden’s talent should no longer be in question by any region in the state. Hell, they’ve beaten a Great Lowndes program 4 out of the last 6 meetings. They swapped helmet paint with a very talented Northside Eagle squad and survived a hard fought battle. THERE IS MORE TO HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETICS AND EXTRA-CURRICULAR ACTIVITIES THAN JUST FOOTBALL! Imagine their girls’ basketball team traveling on Tuesday evening.It is a THREE hour bus ride to Colquitt for these kids to play a TWO hour contest, and then THREE hours back Camden High School. THATS 8hrs! I say back to the high school because even then they are still not “HOME”! Even Camden haters have to have a heart for these “CHILDREN” (some just 14 yrs. old!). Now imagine following that up with important region tilt against powerhouse Lowndes two or three days later. Seriously people, Camden isn’t awarded a state title by winning it’s region. Every year they go through the playoffs and potentially play the best that every region has to offer. And apparently playing a region 1 foe (deepest region in state)in the second round is sort of a built in clause. Like the BCS and Nortre Dame i assume. Please people, let it go.

SportsFan31313

November 23rd, 2009
1:56 pm

Sorry about the typos….

Viking Slayer

November 23rd, 2009
2:02 pm

Seen on the 2009 SAT exams given to Georgia students in the analogies section.

The Atlanta Journal Constitution sports staff is to metro-Atlanta high schools as:

a. a prostitute is to a pimp,
b. a prostitute is to a Louisiana politician, (OK, that’s the same as “a.”),/i>
c. a carnival employee is to dental hygene,
d. an ulcerous sore is to getting a date,
e. ENR is to Northside, Warner Robins football.

Choose one.

VoiceOfReason

November 23rd, 2009
2:04 pm

SWD Panther,Jarmal………The Savannah programs are not forced to do anything. They see Camden as the flagship for their region and are fine with the revenue it brings. They make more money traveling to Camden than they do for a home game. The economy is tough everywhere and Savannah is no different. These schools are going to play 5A regardless of where Camden is placed. So their chances of winning a title or advancing through the playoffs are not changed by Camden’s presence. If anything it gives them a once a year glimpse at true 5A competition before the playoffs arrive. Which they will every year for the four best teams in that region, regardless of their record or talent.

Paul Cook

November 23rd, 2009
2:08 pm

My comment to SportsFan31313 is that Bradwell needs to worry about its own problems. Two Savannah schools, Jenkins and Windsor Forest, beat Bradwell this year. None of the 3AAAAA schools outside of Camden can compete at that level in football, however, 3AAAAA is one of the best basketball regions in the state and is what Savannah is known for.

SWD Panther Paw

November 23rd, 2009
2:12 pm

VoiceOfReason

Once again I keep hearing about the poor Camden kid’s……..but no ever talk’s about the poor Savannah kid’s. What are we to do keep the status quo and keep allowing Camden to pound on these smaller school’s. Savannah is 100 miles from St. Mary’s so there’s alway’s going to be a travel issue for Camden. So the advantage should alway’s favor Camden?????

SportsFan31313

November 23rd, 2009
2:12 pm

Paul Cook,

Duly Noted….. Look at my comment to South West Panther Paw.

SportsFan31313

November 23rd, 2009
2:20 pm

Paul Cook,

Nevertheless,

The the two Schools you mentioned, Windsor Forest and Jenkins have beaten Bradwell Institute how many times in football in it’s school history? Answer that question. When they did win this year, everyone including the coaches called it a stunning victory. But a win is a win and yes we are dealing with that. As far as Bradwell Institute deal with our problems, we are and we will but the savannah Schools has had their share of problems for many years, and its still not being addressed. Read the comment of Windsor Forest Coach who has also resigned this year along with other coaches.

WF Doug

November 23rd, 2009
2:22 pm

I graduated from Windsor Forest in 1988. At that time, we had 1500 students playing in AAAA. The projected enrollment for next year is 1300 and that now makes us a AAA school. And yet we are going to play in AAAAA?? This makes less than no sense.

In my opinion, the problem with Savannah’s competitiveness on the state level in football is due more than anything to the NUMBER of high schools. Savannah has about 125,000 residents. In that city, there are SEVEN public high schools plus at least 6 quality private high schools. Simply put, if Savannah wants to compete in AAAAA, they need to consolidate down to 3 or 4 high schools. If this is done, then each school would potentially have the depth and quality needed to compete on a yearly basis for state honors.

If they will not consolidate, I would like to see the Savannah schools form their own AAA region, as they all are in that category enrollment-wise. If Camden wants to play with them, they can split into 2 AAA schools (based on their projected enrollment). That would create a 9 team region. Benedictine could play up from AA to be a 10th team (or 8th if Camden wants to stay in AAAAA).

I have to wonder what the reasoning is behind the Chatham County school board playing up TWO classifications. It has cost my alma mater a coach who has taken us to 40% of our total playoff appearances in school history (4 out of 10 in 40 years).

Todd Holcomb

November 23rd, 2009
2:23 pm

THe GHSA is reporting that Benedictine has petitioned to play in AAAAA. Now that’s potentially eight Savannah-area schools in Region 3-AAAAA. Richmond Hill could make nine.

So will the GHSA have a 10-team Region 3-AAAAA w/ Camden or a 6-team Region 1-AAAAA w/ Camden. Which makes the most sense travel-wise?

It does not matter whether Camden goes to Savannah or Savannah comes to Camden in football. Somebody has to travel either way. I’m talking total miles, not Camden’s miles. If the goal is to limit the amount of time that school buses are on the road for all sports, then Camden will be placed in Region 1. Having said that, I am not predicting Camden will be in R1. I don’t know what the GHSA will do. I’m just saying that’s where I’d put Camden, knowing that principals and superintendents are more concerned about travel and time out of class than competitive balance.

SWD Panther Paw

November 23rd, 2009
2:23 pm

VoiceOfReason

Give me a break :>) You said the savannah school’s make more money travling to Camden????? are you telling me that Camden is paying those school’s some of thier revenue?????? I DON’T THINK SO…. not when you’re in the same region and required to play the team’s in your region. Try another justification………anyway it appears a mute point I hear the Savannah school’s plan on playing up again.

SportsFan31313

November 23rd, 2009
2:31 pm

WF Doug,

I agree with you. I made that same comment earlier this morning. It is ludicrous.

Todd Holcomb

November 23rd, 2009
2:34 pm

WF Doug: Jenkins and Bradwell Institute are AAAA, not AAA. The Savannah schools are not going to play AAA and abandon Jenkins. If the Savannah schools chose to play in AAAA, they would have to take in Brunswick and Glynn Academy. Class AAAAA is the place that gives them the least travel, especially if Camden winds up in 1-AAAAA.

”Todd, why don’t the GHSA let Camden play football in Region 1 and remain in Region 3 for the remainder of the sports?”

The main goal is limiting travel. You can’t form regions based on competitive balance because that’s too subjective and opens a can of worms that complicates a process that already is pretty complex.

Todd Holcomb

November 23rd, 2009
2:41 pm

SWD Panther: VOR is right. Camden pays Savannah schools to give up their home games and travel to Camden for football. This is legal in the GHSA. Camden played only one road game in the region this year. That’s not giving up revenue because if Camden traveled to Savannah, nobody would attend the game and no money would be made. If the game is played at Camden, it’s a sellout. So the Savannah schools and Camden agree to play the game where it will attract by far the largest crowd, and that way, both schools can make money.

However, the fact that Camden does not travel to Savannah very often in football is irrelevant to the issue of classification because that 110-mile trip must still be made, whether it’s Savannah or Camden making the drive.

Raider Fan

November 23rd, 2009
2:42 pm

Just curious, but why call moving a AAAAA team to AAAA a demotion? That makes it sound like some sort of punishment for having lower enrollment in a school due to losing students to a newly opened school.

Jefferson

November 23rd, 2009
2:47 pm

Camdem will be riding — home after losing Friday.

Paul Cook

November 23rd, 2009
2:48 pm

There are a lot of reasons why Savannah city high schools don’t compete well at the AAAAA level and some of those reasons would prevent them from competing at AAAA or AAA level as well. Coaching pay, facilities, budget support, weak middle school programs etc. are all things that have prevented the Savannah public schools from being competitive. Savannah will not consolidate any of its high schools because that will create some issues on the non athletic side so thats a moot point and all 6 schools will compete in the same region because that is a central office decision.

grayram

November 23rd, 2009
2:49 pm

ENR
Do the Savannah schools not request to play AAAAA because they want to compete there in basketball? The article didn’t say the author was suggesting they play up, it said someone in Savannah told them they might play up. Camden is a great team and will be a great team in whatever region they play, I doubt the teams up here spend much time thinking about it. The sports writers all season have said they thought Lowndes was the best in the state and you say they are N GA cheerleaders. You took your pills out of the wrong bottle this morning.
Are you the guy who keeps insisting the moon landing never happened??

grayram

November 23rd, 2009
2:51 pm

Are we really comparing Bradwell to Camden?????

SportsFan31313

November 23rd, 2009
2:55 pm

Todd Holcomb,

Well you have in close proximity to Savannah Schools in Class AAAA:

Bradwell Institute
Jenkins
Richmond Hill
South Effingham
Effingham County

Then you have Schools that is approximately 45 to an hour minutes away from Savannah

Brunswick
Glynn Academy

SportsFan31313

November 23rd, 2009
2:56 pm

grayram

No you are reading into this wrong.

Answerguy

November 23rd, 2009
2:56 pm

If principals/school systems were really wanting to create the least amount of out of class time and travel time on a bus they should cancel all high school sports. The kids then could be split up geographically in county and play rec/aau. This would take the burden off of the schools, free up millions of $, and then the participant would fund everything.

SWD Panther Paw

November 23rd, 2009
2:57 pm

Thanks, Todd I appreciate the clarification…..didn’t know that. I stand corrected. Then the issue is with the fool’s in the Central Office in Savannah Public school’s. All you people in Savannah should be up in arm’s about what is occurring in your city. Do you people not care???????

SportsFan31313

November 23rd, 2009
2:58 pm

grayram,

Camden County is great in football but not as good in basketball. I believe that the Savannah Schools beat them (Camden County) in Basketball regularly

grayram

November 23rd, 2009
3:01 pm

In his post above Todd Holcombe said”Class AAAAA is the place that gives them the least travel, especially if Camden winds up in 1-AAAAA”

I was guessing it was due to Basketball they wanted to play up. Thanks for the info Todd

grayram

November 23rd, 2009
3:02 pm

thanks Sportsfan

SportsFan31313

November 23rd, 2009
3:04 pm

To have Class AAA and AA schools to play up in Class AAAAA would be ludicrous. Bradwell Institute would stand a chance playing up because their enrollment is very close to being a true Class AAAAA School. Currently, Bradwell Institute lacks about 52 students from being a true Class AAAAA School. (1900 students) The onkly factor I see is that there would be no one for Bradwell Institute to play against as a true Class AAAAA School but Camden County.

SportsFan31313

November 23rd, 2009
3:07 pm

grayram,

You’re welcome. Anytime….

WF Doug

November 23rd, 2009
3:07 pm

Todd,

Moving up ONE classification to keep Jenkins makes more sense than moving TWO to keep Camden.

In 1988 (senior year), Region 3-AAAA was 12 teams split into 2 subregions:

Savannah schools-

WF, Jenkins, Tompkins (now a middle school), Groves, Savannah, Beach, Johnson, Benedictine

Area schools-

Bradwell,Brunswick, Glynn Academy, Effingham County, Wayne County (Jesup)

Prior to that, swap out Wayne County for Coffee County (Douglas).

As far as I’m concerned, Camden can schlep themselves to Valdosta, etc. Savannah schools have no business playing a school twice their enrollment.

grayram

November 23rd, 2009
3:09 pm

ENR unmasked……Bart Sibrel!!

Facts

November 23rd, 2009
3:11 pm

As of right now, Benedictine is the only school opting to play up in AAAAA and they are making the move from AA. The deadline is tomorrow 11/24/2009 and who knows what could happen in 24 hours.

If you want to know what the GHSA will do about the regions, here is what you do: Step 1. Make a list of what is logically the most reasonable solution for each region based on geography. Step 2. Sit back and wait. Step 3. Look at GHSA’s list and make the statement “Why in the hell would they do that? It is the complete opposite of any logic and reason.”

That is how GHSA makes decisions: good old redneck justification (taking the logical choice and doing the opposite).

SportsFan31313

November 23rd, 2009
3:16 pm

Todd Holcomb,

Benedictine playing up in Class AAAAA? Come one now. Benedictine is a Class AA School with 630 Students. What in the H$@%?

grayram

November 23rd, 2009
3:20 pm

SportsFan31313
In the GHSA are these “request to play up” or is it up to the school?

SportsFan31313

November 23rd, 2009
3:22 pm

grayram ,

Request to Play up.

SWD Panther Paw

November 23rd, 2009
3:25 pm

SportsFan31313

FYI – Marist has 700 student’s and is Class AA but chooses to play up to Class AAAA have so for years. So there is precedent for this…….of course having lot’s of money to get good recruits off set’s the disadvantage of enrollment.

Todd Holcomb

November 23rd, 2009
3:26 pm

I don’t think Benedictine would apply for AAAAA unless it knew that the Savannah public schools were coming, too.

WF Doug: I’m not debating what Savannah schools ought to do. I trust your view on that since you’ve experienced it first hand. I’m just explaining their rationale, not defending it. Their goal is to limit travel. If they play AAAAA, they’re together except for Camden, and it’s possible they can shed Camden. In AAAA, you’re adding Glynn & Brunswick and the Effingham schools to complicate thingz. In AAA, they are abandoning Jenkins, which they won’t do. So in their minds, AAAAA makes the most sense. I’d like to see them in a class where they can be more competitive, but I’m not an educator.

Paul Cook

November 23rd, 2009
3:27 pm

To SWD, Do we care? Yes, of course we do but probably not as much as trying to get our schools at least meeting the state average in critical testing and graduation measurements. I’m a local graduate (WFHS 72) so I have seen it all over the last 30+ years. We are an urban school system with all the problems that urban school systems have. Its no accident that Savannah has the highest percentage private school enrollment of any county in the state

SportsFan31313

November 23rd, 2009
3:28 pm

Paul Cook,

I understand…..

Facts

November 23rd, 2009
3:28 pm

Todd,

Do some research and look on ghsa.net and the list of teams playing up is being updated daily.

Once the forms has been filled out and turned it, there is no turning back. The form requires a signature from both the principal and the superintendent. If you are going after those two signatures, you are serious about playing up.

Benedictine is going AAAAA

SportsFan31313

November 23rd, 2009
3:31 pm

SWD Panther Paw

Those are private schools. However; I still fee the same way about it….

grayram

November 23rd, 2009
3:32 pm

Can schools also request to play in a lower class? Meadowcreek??

Paul Cook

November 23rd, 2009
3:35 pm

Benedictine’s enrollment is all boys so it is factored to get an equivalent enrollment. Benedictine competed with the Savannah schools for years and only changed regions a few years ago. They have had mediocre results at the lower level and have had to travel quite a bit more. the move back to AAAAA probably makes sense even if Camden stays in the region.

SportsFan31313

November 23rd, 2009
3:36 pm

grayram,

According to GHSA a School can not play down in Classification. They can only play up in Classification.

SportsFan31313

November 23rd, 2009
3:43 pm

Paul Cook,

I disagree. I don’t think that outside of Savannah, Benedictine will not stand a fighting chance to compete on the sports level if that was to occur.

Beautiful Monte

November 23rd, 2009
3:48 pm

Todd, here is something I don’t understand about the Savannah-area schools:

According to your projected regions, every school in 3-AAAAA will be “playing up”. If they want to keep all of the schools in the same region, why don’t they play in AAAA instead of AAAAA?

I realize that Camden County writes most of these schools a big check every year, but the check can’t be THAT big … can it?

SWD Panther Paw

November 23rd, 2009
3:49 pm

it’s official SportsFan31313…….. Bradwell has requested to play up. Just posted on the GHSA website

Paul Cook

November 23rd, 2009
3:58 pm

Benedictine dropped down to AAA in 2004 and then to AA and the best record they have had since then is 6-5. Not much will change if they go to AAAAA and play the Savannah schools. BC played in 2AA this year and I am sure that the travel cost was excessive.

Suwanee 0wnz

November 23rd, 2009
4:07 pm

GHSA will allow a different region alignment for football versus the other sports.

So ultimately, I believe it is up to Camden and the schools around them to decide what they want to do about it. It would be possible for Camden to play in 1AAAAA for football, but 3AAAAA for the other sports.

Despite his humrous harangue, it is not up to ENR. It is not even up to the Houston County schools who will not be playing in 1AAAAA and it certainly is not up to the AJC.

Move along folks. These are not the droids you are seeking. There is nothing to see here. Camden can determine for themselves, without our help, what is in their own best interest.

Personally, I would love to see a short region schedule in South GA so that a few of those schools can cross the border and go kick the rears of some of those over-rated Floriduh schools. Unless some real teams go beat them, those Floriduh schools will continue to be over-rated in national polls.

Alabama is willing to let their best compete with strong Georgia teams. I guess Floriduh suspects how that would work out for them.

Bryan

November 23rd, 2009
4:11 pm

Sportsfan,

I think you’re trying to say that BC would be unsuccessful outside of the region (despite your double negative). This year, BC couldn’t make the playoffs in AA. They likely would have made the playoffs in AAAAA. A move up to AAAAA, makes BC more competitive in every sport within their region, except for basketball. It’s really a no brainer: move up to AAAAA and they travel less, play traditional rivals, get more SAV press, and have a better record in every sport. BC has made the occasional run in the football playoffs and wins a state championship in AAAAA every now and again in some sport.

Ultimately, the more important point to focus on is that the SAV public school system is so inept, that they play in AAAAA even thought they don’t have a SINGLE SCHOOl that is classified by enrollment for AAAAA and only one school classified for AAAA.

Brian

November 23rd, 2009
4:20 pm

Todd:

You have completely forgotten about the Effingham Schools one of which (ECHS) is very close to AAAAA enrollment, both will probably play up.

Paul Cook

November 23rd, 2009
4:25 pm

This is a question to Todd or to anyone who knows better than I how GHSA
operates. If all 6 Savannah schools elected to play at AAAA that would mean that region 3AAAAA would disappear and there would only be 7 AAAAA regions. According to the tentative reclassification list onl 52 schools were listed as natural AAAAA so the GHSA must be counting on certain schools to play up. What would happen if Savannah chose not to go along with that?

DaveDawg96

November 23rd, 2009
4:28 pm

I present the logical, EVERYBODY WINS solution to AAAAA reclassification:

1AAAAA (7)
Coffee
Colquitt County
Lowndes
Tift County
Valdosta
*Hardaway
*Northside, Columbus

2AAAAA (9)
Luella
M.L. King
Newton
Redan
Stephenson
East Coweta
Langston Hughes
Newnan
Westlake

3AAAAA (9)
Beach
Bradwell Institute
Groves
Jenkins
Johnson, Savannah
Savannah
Windsor Forest
Benedictine
Camden County

4AAAAA (8)
Pebblebrook
South Cobb
Harrison
Hillgrove
Kennesaw Mountain
McEachern
North Cobb
Campbell or Marietta

5AAAAA (8)
Cherokee
Etowah
Woodstock
Lassiter
Walton
Wheeler
**Pope
Campbell or Marietta

6AAAAA (8)
Alpharetta
Centennial
Chattahoochee
Milton
Northview
Roswell
North Forsyth
West Forsyth

7AAAAA (8)
Collins Hill
Duluth
Mill Creek
Mountain View
Norcross
North Gwinnett
Peachtree Ridge
***Lanier

8AAAAA (8)
Berkmar
Brookwood
Central Gwinnett
Dacula
Grayson
Meadowcreek
Parkview
Shiloh
South Gwinnett

Notes:
* Hardaway and *Northside, Columbus are overlooked in the GHSF Daily predictions.
** Pope is located right in between Lassiter and Walton and will play up. Kell will not.
*** Lanier opens in 2011.

WF Doug

November 23rd, 2009
4:29 pm

Me too Todd, but this is the Chatham County school board we are talking about. They do very little that makes sense.

The best solution for Chatham County is to play in AAAA and add BC back into the mix as school #8. You would eliminate ALL out of town travel for the entire region. If that is the main criteria for their classification decisions, this would be a no-brainer.

WF Doug

November 23rd, 2009
4:32 pm

DaveDawg, in your realignment, 3AAAAA is a loser except for Camden County. None of those schools can compete with a school twice or more its size.