The Braves are going to stink up the grapefruit league and then they’re going to stink up the regular season going into the all star break, then they’re going to stink up the dog days worse than they’ll stink up September. They stink.
I like to win. I need to win. You journalists don’t seem to care. Worse, you have no idea why we lose, or why we win. Then you write in a lazy fly ball to right field mentality that ruins what little fun an aging man can glean from a baseball game. Baseball is not a lazy fly ball to right field. Baseball is what if, what would it take, how many men……..
You, Furman, forgot about the game of baseball, and all you think about is the uniforms, the bats, and the forgotten wave, which I loved but then it went the way of disco. Why? The wave, properly done by experts in the sport of baseball is the grandest spectacle ever created by mankind, man.
This piece reads like Furman had been chewing pine tar.
Why cant anyone write a piece about baseball’s law of averages, or the quantum randomness of which direction the ball goes after contact. How can one player hit four home runs in one game? Then strike out fifty two times in a row.
FB, congrats on writing an article like this. Your past few articles that concern the Braves were lacking in the “makes sense” department. There is one flaw that I find with this one. You write as if Diaz was our everyday leftfielder for the past few seasons. This is a false premise – he just became the regular last year (and did so very ineffectively). His problem wasnt that he was hurt. His problem is that he cannot hit RHP as well as he can LHP. His average drops nearly 50 points against RHP. Until Diaz can hit RHP, he will always be a platoon player, or a bench bat.
THIS he does exceptionally well. He is one of the best pinch-hitters in the game, and I look forward to having that valuable asset on our bench this year.
Bobby, if you think this Braves team will stink, then please, jump off the bandwagon and go write about the science behind the sport.
Wow…someone is a little upset tonight about a team that has obviosusly upgraded from last year. The Braves will challenge the division this year! Good luck to Diaz and Anderson…The issue is not left field…it is right field…and good luck to you Frenchy! OUr pitching will keep us in games now our bats need to step up. Go wash your sox Bobby we WAVE goodbye to you!
I don’t know if I’d say Brandon Jones will bring the power.
I love Matt’s “I’m in the majors, I can’t complain” attitude. It seems mostly lost in pro sports. I’m kind of against the GA signing. Diaz has a career .288 average against righties (including .357 and .317 in 2006 and 2007). Why put him in a platoon? I’d want him in the lineup every day.
Matt Diaz is, indeed, one of the good guys. I met him in Spring Training a couple of years ago and was very impressed by his attitude–gracious, humble, and approachable. I’d love to see him get the chance to hit more against both LR & RH pitching–he’s earned it!
The Braves have anb auwsome outfield, amazing starting pitching, and of course Chipper Jones. The Braves are gonna fall behind the Mets, who will win the division, and the phillies who will win the wildcard. I don’t think we are going to the playoffs, but we will have a winning record, and we will have a good season. We just have to get our young players, like Tommy hanson, developed. Once we do that we’ll continue our streak of division titles.
GO BRAVES!!!!!
Diaz should also work some in RF. After watching Frenchy go out there day after day with no production, seeing a lineup with both G Anderson and Diaz on occasion would be fun. HOwever, I do wish Francour well this year, but that iron man role has ended. Diaz is a great team guy, love Diaz being Diaz as opposed to …the likes of Manny being Manny!
Frenchy is very important if we are going to make a run this year. Should he falter look for Schaffer or even Heyward inright by July.
Saw Heyward Fiday in Bradenton,very impressive and 19 years old.
Nice piece on Diaz. If he can hit like he did in 06-07 he’ll be very valuable to the team on the field and/or in a trade if need be. However, you seem to have overlooked the 40 or so games he did play in ‘08 (all but 1 before his injury) where he hit a very pedestrian .244 far below his lifetime .320. Looks like opposing pitching figured him out…
The rest of the article is a bit far-fetched in my opinion. The only thing the Braves outfield is “handsomely stocked” with are questions.
Will Franceour get back to form?
Will any of the young guys prove they are ready for the bigs?
Will G. Anderson be able to hit NL pitching as well as AL?
Wlll G. Anderson be able to play decent defense?
Will Diaz get his stroke back?
I’ll agree we have tons of potential and reason for optimism but, realisticly, we don’t yet know what to expect from this group.
jch67. Franceour is coming back, and is going to have an amazing season, the young guys like Hanson ARE ready for the bigs, Garret Anderson has never in his career hit below 280, and Diaz is going to sparkle. I don’t know why, but I feel like this is the new start to the Braves.
Oh yeah Bobby Sox. You have no earthly clue what you are talking about. The Braves are going to rock it up this year. P.S. Bobby Cox is one of the best managers of all time.
thanks Mr. Bisher hope Diaz can rebound …… but the fact is is that he’s shown he’s better in a platoon or off the bench. Much success to both Diaz and the Braves!
Bobby Sox chill man who you really mad at go talk to them. Just had to rip somebody huh?
With all due respect, good attitudes do not win games. Talent does. Put Mr.Diaz on the bench for pinch hitting and put Brandon Jones in the everyday lineup.
Has anyone else noticed that Mattie injured his left knee, and not his shoulder? I suffered through his knee injury just like I suffered through Mark DeRosa’s several years ago.
Mr. Bisher, THANK YOU for writing about one of my favorite — and not-forgotten — players! Matty has the right attitude and gives 200 percent always. I agree he has not gotten the press he deserves. I can’t believe more wasn’t made of the terrible ‘metal in the wall’ where he slid and was injured making one of his trade-mark, all-out catches. It was a terrible accident that didn’t need to happen.
THank you Mr B. (belatedly), Matt Diaz has been the MOST under-rated Brave since the beginning of the 06 season, including by the management !! He comes to play every day.
NASCAR lost its soul long ago. They’ve managed to weed out all the independent drivers who worked on their own car, drove the hauler, etc. Racing has no room any more for those who race simply because they love the sport.
Let’s face it. Wine is way cheaper than liquor and less filling than beer. So if you plan a day (a whole day staying awake) at the race and don’t want to fill up before the race or go broke during the race, you drink wine. Leave this to the “Professionals”. Betty Ford already knows I’m coming tomorrow! LOL! BTW, how many NASCAR fans know about Hendrick owning his own winery in NC??
It is interesting that according to Ol’ Furman, college basketball in North Carolina began with Everett Case. Remember in the mid-1950’s the ACC was segregated. Michael Jordan, Len Bias, Ralph Sampson would not have been allowed to play in the league. However, just down the road in Winston Salem, Clarence “Big House” Gaines was building quite a career in Winston Salem State. Gaines racked up 828 wins and coached among others, Earl “The Pearl” Monroe. I realize that we are all products of the times we were brought up in but c’mon Furman, such a limited understanding basketball pioneers in 1950’s North Carolina such as Big House Gaines is a joke!
Another excellent column by Mr. Bisher, who as a UNC grad knows the roots of the ACC and basketball in the South. Having seen my first game in Reynolds Coliseum in 1956, having attend Everett Cases’s camp and met him,and having covered the ACC for more than 40 years, Furman is on the mark about Case. (Furman should have included Ronnie Shavlik in his list of great Wolfpackers.) As for the comment by the reader about Clarence Gaines, he is off base. Gaines was a great coach and man, but Earl Monroe’s biggest stage in college was in a game played in Reynolds Coliseum– all thanks to N. C. State — and the man who brought big time basketball to the South.
As an NC State alum, I know very much of the Everett Case legacy and influence. Case was abused by the NCAA who claimed he bribed a recruit — a charge Case vehemently denied to his grave. Nevertheless, the NCAA put a severe penalty on NC State using evidence that many considered dubious at best.
Given the subsequent harsh sanction involving David Thompson and then the self-imposed penalties after Valvano, NC State is still suffering and trying to recover the kind of historic role and influence that it once enjoyed.
The reason Case gets short shrift is because of the more recent rise of ESPN and the influence of television on college sports. But if people are fair, then they have no choice but to agree that Case is the father of the ACC and his NC State program made the conference what it remains to this day — the premier basketball conference in the nation.
It’s a shame that the World Baseball Classic (WBC) will end after this year. It’s seems that Chipper (Lareee) won’t go back and play next year;so they will have to cancel it. Right???? That darn OBLIQUE muscle that caused him to go 0 for 10 (5 strikeouts)… Everybody knows that if Lareee Jones can’t play the U.S. doesn’t stand a chance. Poor guy-it’s not his fault he’s so GREAT…
In Rivals most recent ranking of top combined FB and BskB programs, only UNC (6th) and FSU (9th) from the ACC were ranked in the TOP TEN of Helmets and Hoops (combined). The SEC had none.
SEC=FB Only
Leo Mazzone- What a used up old blow-hard. Anyone would have had success with Smoltz/Glavine/Maddux on staff. The gneral manager was the hall of famer…..not this self inflated loser. If he was so great, how come he had not positive effect on the Orioles? Imagine if we had someone else all those 14 seasons…. You went for the money so now you should GO AWAY & STAY AWAY LEO LOSER !!!!
Full time roving pitching instructor. Sounds like a title and a job.
The braves could do worse. Leo has a butt load of knowledge and farm teams galore to spread it amongst, I say bring him back and let him work his magic.
Leo no doubt was an excellent pitching coach for the starters. His Camp Leo alone earns him high praise. But, he was at time ascerbic, especially with young pitchers. This accounted in part for poor performance by Leo’s bullpens.
Baseball people look just as hard at Leo’s failures. His most noteworthy failure was with Mark Wohlers. Wohlers threw that hanging slider in the World Series and mentally beat himself up. Leo’s unrelenting style contributed to Wohler’s mental block. A pitching coach who could have related better to younger players might have been able to alleviate Wohler’s shocking slide.
Then injuries beset other pitchers. The list is rather long starting with Steve Avery. Leo’s penchant for toughness worked well for the Hall of Fame starters, but what about others like Avery and Kent Mercker? Didn’t work out to well for them. Remember, in 1991 the Braves had four star pitchers (the Young Guns). Only two of them fulfilled their early promise.
Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz hardly needed a pitching coach. Yes, Leo’s methods helped all of them. But a more professional collection of starters you won’t find. Leo had the three best in that era of baseball.
So while Leo rightly earns praise, he must also analyze the more objective reasons why his phone isn’t ringing with a job offer. He may eventually get one, but if he was the pitching coach genius some believe him to be, then baseball GM’s and managers would be offering him jobs right now. Baseball is a small community and talent is never obscured.
Bullpens? You mean Chris Hammond, Darren Holmes, Mike Remlinger, Kerry Ligtenberg? Greg McMichael, Mark Wohlers, Steve Bedrosian? Brad Clontz, Kevin McGlinchy, Rudy Seanez? Where Leo proved you really can get blood out of a turnip?
Better check out some of those bullpen ERAs. I could go on and on. I challenge you, check the numbers during and after Leo. I’ll bet the bullpen and team ERAs are 1.50 higher. I know we don’t have the Aces in their prime, but look at the peripheral players. It’s guys like the ones listed above where he made a difference.
Not to mention marginal starters who pitched well here, like John Burkett, Russ Ortiz, Shane Reynolds, and Jaret Wright, who should send Leo $200,000 a year for life after signing that $32m contract. Damian Moss, Horacio Ramirez. Guys who optimized what they had for a year or two or three under Leo.
He might have been a little harsh for Jason Marquis’ taste, but then, Jason Marquis is a punk. Dave Duncan couldn’t help him, either.
Leo is a pitching genius. Or at least he’s the best pitching coach, maybe of all-time. It’s become in vogue to bash him as out of touch and harsh and to rewrite history such that he didn’t make a difference, but he did. He’s the best EVER.
Leo had success in baseball and seems like a nice guy on the radio. But, his lack of knowledge with the non-baseball sports is glaring. He probably would be better off with a pure MLB job.
Well, maybe Old Leo was a fine pitching coach and all that, but five will get you 10 that his “success” coincided with a Braves’ tenure with three Hall of Fame pitchers who enjoyed very long careers. One suspects his job was to stay the hell out of the way.
How could any of you bloggers write something bad about Leo..Our pitching staff has had more arm problems since Leo left than one can imagine and there were alot of washed up pitchers who did just fine with leo and Braves only to leave Braves and be a waste of their new team s money big time..lets see Burkett is one,Reynolds,Wright..and a good bit more..and he always had to peice togeather some type of bull penmainly because so much Braves money was invested in Maddox Smoltz and Glavine..Lets dont forget camp leo..Leo was way more sucessful that the guy we have now..this better be a year for him..
TCP is correct. .he knows very little about anything other than baseball, and his grammar is awful. .and that laugh is not what I want to hear in the mornings.
Unless one is a true baseball insider, it would almost impossible to evaluate Mazzone. But the Braves had some darn good pitchers with Mazzone here and not just the big three or four. I suspect Mazzone has learned a lot, not from his successes, from his failures with the Orioles. I doubt if there are more than a handful of pitching coaches with Mazzone’s ability.
I think that Leo was responsible for Wohlers’ early success, not his melt down. Leo was one of the best, and he was a great baseball character. Surely the Braves can find a spot for him.
Shoulda never left a good thing Leo.. glad you recognize it! Maybe Bobby will fire whoever they have now who thinks he’s a “coach” and get you back in the dugout rocking as usual.. God knows they could use you.
If you are on here bashing Leo then I suggest you go get the book “Tales From The Mound”. This gives you insight of where Leo came from and also who he learned from. It’s pretty amazing. The stories he tells about the players for the Braves (Maddux, Smoltz, Avery..etc) are very cool. May give some of you a different opinion about this great coach. Yes, he may not be radio material, but he is more real than most of the so called morning personality out there.
Barney, are you on crack, or did you just move here a couple of years ago? Leo repeatedly took guys off of the scrapheap, Burkett, Wright, Hammond, literally out of, or almost out of baseball and made them into very accomplished pitchers. All three left Leo to go to other organizations for the big payday after Leo saved their careers, and all bombed after leaving. Ligtenberg was acquired for a bag of bats! A bag of bats! No way McMichael is able to have a career without Leo’s input, and the list goes on. Sure Smoltz, Glavine, and Maddux are Hall of Famers, but show me one coach in any sport who is regarded as great that didn’t have at least some great players. Leo’s importance was not in making the Hall of Famers great, but making the scrap heap guys very good.
I say make him the minor league pitching instructor until McDowell’s contract is up, then promote him.
BTW, met him once in an elevator in an L.A. hotel, and he could not have been any nicer. As a matter of fact, he offered me tickets to the game, being an Atl resident and lifelong Bravos fan, which I couldn’t accept due to business responsibilities. Almost quit my job right there!
Sharecropper: If Leo’s career with Braves, coincided with Braves tenure of 3 Hall of Fame pitchers….Then what the he!! does Bobby Cox’s tenure coincide with? The Braves have won nothing without Leo!?!?
Barney, that’s like saying Chuck Noll deserves no credit for the Super Bowls he won because he had Franco Harris and Terry Bradshaw and Don Shula had Dan Marino at Miami. Is it too late to send Barney to the space station. Oh, it already launched. Maybe we can get him on the next trip…
Leo made a name for himself as Bobby Cox’s caddie. You saw the results in Charm City. The first day he said “I made a mistake.” Nice attitude!! If Leo was such a great coach, then he should have at least shown some improvement for the O’s. Both he and Sammy P were in over their heads. Leo didn’t return any of the ca$h did he? Just go away.
I agree with renegade. Have him roam all the minor league teams, even spend some time with Roger. He has a wealth of knowledge and could be taken advantage of across all the teams.
Leo’s pitching philosophy is what makes him the best. If you really think that a pitcher like Glavine who has never thrown hard would have had long term success without him, you are off base. Leo’s appreciation for location and change of speed is something that all pitchers should follow. I also think that he is really coming around on the air.
During our great run, the team ERA was greater than any other team’s. Leo was at the helm.Now with McDowell our ERA is higher. Leo was doing something right. The bottom line
is we won with Leo, we’ve lost with Roger.
Sam Perlozzo, spent last season as Seattle’s third-base coach after 12 years with Baltimore as third-base coach (1996-2000), bench coach (2001-2005) and manager (2005-07). He also coached third base for the Mariners (1993-95), Cincinnati (1990-92) and the New York Mets (1987-89). He joined the Philadelphia Phillies’ coaching staff in Nov.
As for Leo he absoultely needs and deserves to be somewhere in baseball.
Leo is a bum pure and simple. He had a ride with the big three and ate it up. Heres the problem with Leo. He hates dealing with the young kids, thats why all ours were traded away. Look at Wainwright, not with us. Either is Jason Marquis or other youngsters that Leo wanted no part of. He wanted the older pitchers that knew their stuff. Well now we have young pitchers and I want no part of Leo. He wasnt that great, we had great pitchers who knew what they were doing. Yes Leo had a great ride on the backs of three of the best and he fell flat on his face when he left. That tells you what hes all about. Hes a fake but our big three were not.
Leo is a loudmouth and a dumbass. He was “right place right time” with smoltz, glavine and maddux there. He didnt make those guys the pitchers they are (but he thinks he did). He was exposed with the Orioles for the fraud he is. Once he was gone, the pitchers KILLED him for being the caustic douchebag idiot he is. What next, Ed Magadan going to take credit for Otis Nixon and Andruw Jones’ greatness in centerfield because of his ability to mow grass? Gimme a break and good riddance, Leo.
Since Leo left, almost our entire staff has had Tommy John surgery. Is it coincidience?(sp) Roger McDowell needs to find another pitching staff to blunder.. BRING BACK LEO before our farm prospects are in line for surgery…
Can’t believe all these so call baseball fans talking bad about Leo. It’s just funny here. I’ll say Roger has done good with alittle hick-up. But he was not a Leo with the pitcher he had.
A good place for Leo might be Gwinnett, for right now with Hanson about to come up to the major.
Wow- Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz didn’t need a pitching coach? Smoltz? Really? Isn’t Smoltz the one who needed a red (shirt) target held up behind home plate cause he could throw it hard but not STRAIGHT? Didn’t he have that mental block at the start of his career here? Wasn’t he a project? That’s how we got him from the Tigers in the first place people and guess who helped him through that. And its not Leo’s fault Steve Avery (who even admitted it himself) understandably was mentally shook after the premature birth of his child and was never the same or that Mark Wohlers suffered a similar fate when his wife took him to the cleaners. AND Glavine wasn’t BORN pitching that way folks, yes he had talent but he did have someone help him perfect that talent. He did not do it by himself. Okay, I’ll give you Maddux, but let me put it this way- even Michael Jordan had a coach. No, Leo was not perfect as so many of you here like to point out, but then again who is? His positives far outweigh anything he might have done negatively (like ditching us for the $$$). I say bring him back, how in the world could it hurt to have that type of knowledge around? We forgave Glavine for going to the NY Muts, er um Mets I mean, for the $$$ so why not Leo? You know the young pitchers would love to have him around, he’d be a legend to those guys. It would be crazy not to bring him back. Get ‘er done Braves!
Actually we won with Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz HEALTHY and we lost with them un-healthy of gone. Leo was just along for the ride – as was Cox. Scheurholz was the genius of the winning streak!!!
The fact of the matter is what another poster already pointed out. Baseball is too small of a community to have “forgotten” about Leo Mazzone. If baseball peolpe really felt Leo could make a difference on their staff, he would have been hired. Im glad he admits that he made a mistake but its time for Braves fans to get over Leo Mazzone.
Leo is like a free agent, the market is gone for ex pitching coaches wirh big egos. The Braves have employed many ex coaches fired from other teams over the years. I think Leo and Andruw are similar, they rate themselves higher than other major league teams rate their ability.
All this friggin’ talk about Cox and Leo along for the ride and Schuerholz was the genius… anybody could have won with Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine… Wohlers and Avery – they were good but Leo ruined them or they were marginal and Leo helped them. This young pitcher or that young pitcher – they couldn’t relate to Leo or they could totally relate to Leo.
Has anybody here ever seen a puzzle… one piece by itself is just… well, a piece of a puzzle. But you put it all together and it becomes a completed picture. That is what all of these parts were/are with the Braves… or any other successful team that you want to talk about.
Earl Weaver wasn’t a genuius when he managed in the old Georgia/Florida league down in Fitzgerald but when you gave him, Robinson, Robinson, Palmer, Belanger, Powell, Cuellar, Johnson and all those other great Orioles… all of the sudden he becomes the greatest thing to hit Baltimore since the doctor slapped Babe Ruth’s naked a$$!
The Braves were and are a TEAM!! It takes every one to make it happen including Cox, Leo, Schuerholz, Gant, Justice, Lightenburg, Deon, Skates, (yeah, he got fooled on Pendleton’s hit to left… but the Braves wouldn’t have been in that series or game without him that year.) Belliard and even the clubhouse boys during those years!
It’s called being a part of a TEAM… take anyone away and it’s not the same and add anyone else and it’s not the same.
Just sign me… Proud To Wear The Tomahawk For 43 Years!!
The only question I have about Leo’s time in Atlanta is: If he was so bad (?) why was his pitching staff so injury free during his tenure?
He handled his pitching staff in a manner many tried to duplicate and had a injury free staff. Can we say that now? Absolutely not! And I’m not talking about our senior pitchers like Glavine and Smoltz…. look at the list….. If Leo could minimize the injury factor, it would be worth at least 20 games won – at least last year.
Roger McDowell hasn’t shown me anything….. I’m not sure how to grade his work, but he hasn’t excelled at anything. At least Leo conditioned his pitchers.
Maybe the rumor that Cox and Leo didn’t see eye to eye was true. It seems that someone like Leo would have been welcome back here, but maybe there’s something about Cox and McDowell we don’t know. Cox’s loyalty to a pitching coach that has clearly failed is perplexing.
A. He was a platoon player before the injury. He became the “everyday” left fielder to start to 08 season, but was quickly put back into a platoon after it became clear he was more valuable there paired with a guy like blanco.
When did the Braves drop out of 1st Place? When did the pitching staff turn into, well a minor league staff? When Leo left. I am sure just about anyone would have taken more money to work with your best friend, so you cant blame him for really leaving. Bring him back, as a consultant for the farm teams = we forgave Glavine for leaving us and going to the METS so we should do the same with Leo. Personally I would go after Maddux as a pitching coach or wait till Smoltz and Glavine retire and hire them and get rid of Roger.
To all of the posters claiming Schuerholz was the reason for the winning steak:
- Who was the GM that drafted Tom Glavine?
- Who was the GM that traded for John Smoltz?
- Who was the GM that drafted Chipper Jones?
- Who was the GM that drafted David Justice?
Bobby Cox, that’s who. For those of you that want to keep insisting that Schuerholz was the reason for all of the success, your ignoring a huge component, Bobby Cox. Both men played substantial roles in brining all of those division titles to Atlanta.
Dear Furman I am disgusted with the way old people are depicted in your newspaper. We are not all vibrant, fun loving sex maniacs. Many of us are bitter, resentful individuals who remember the good old days when entertainment was bland and inoffensive. The following is a list of words I never want to see in the AJC again. Number one: bra. Number two: horny. Number three: family jewels
Great Article, Diaz deserves the spot over anderson. I believe diaz can produce way more at the plate and will have a better glove than anderson will. Anderson will be a backup, hes old, time for Diaz to shine.
Tell it like it is, Pulpwood!
I think only insiders really know what Leo’s value was but what I don’t like is the way he has lobbied for Roger MeDowell’s job. Every interview I heard form him over the last two years sounded the same, “Gee Golly, I’m so sorry I left the Braves. They’re the greatest. I wish I was back.” He sounds like some high school kid whose girl dumped him. Very thin.
Sorry for this, Pulpwood, but if I was Roger, I’d hit him in the “family jewels”!
I get a kick out of these leo bashers. If you think that leo was just going for the ride. back in the late nineties he took a staqff of over the hill players and turned it into the bull pen with the lowest team era in baseball. the only thing is that the team was only averaging 3 runs a game and came up short in the post season. throughout most of the nineties and the early 2000s the pitching staff carried a collection of stiffs at the plate. the last five years we havent had a desent pitching staff. last season we had quite a few big boppers and a bull pen that couldnt hold down thier lunch much less a lead then we traded two integral pieces of our offense and we fell apart. during the off season the free agents avoided the braves like the plague. we tried to get peavy and the padres pulled the plug on any deals and then there was the furcal deal that fell through. You cant blame roger on all of that but we havent been the same team without leo. Give it a rest about leos short coming and remember his successes. Hes a great motivater and his work ethic is beyond question. I would wecome him back in a minute
Mr. Bisher:
How can I get my hands on the documentary piece on the development of the Myrtle Beach area? I’ve seen it once or twice but can’t find out how to locate it. I only ask you because you are mentioned in it as being one of the four or five main players in the development.
I’d love to get it on a DVD.
Leo is a great guy. I know him personally and both he and his wife are stand up people. It’s dangerous to let your perception of one area of a person’s life skew your total perception of them as a person. Let’s stick to the professional critique…
Well written and civil commentary on the joke known as the BCS poll. Who will it screw this fall? Stand by for the next fine program that gets poked. The good die young or get dumped on by the BCS.
a “sickening look at us splurge?” Shame on OU for being too good. Simple equation 3 does not equal 2. Texas lost too. Tech lost, but was 11-1. OU was 11-1. They all beat each other.
Politics? That’s all Mack Brown is, a politician. He’s good at it too. He sweet talked you, Furman.
In a world of low life scum do anything to win guys (meyer, stoops, petrino, spurrier, etc.) Mack Brown is a true class act. As an experienced SEC and newly educated Big 12 fan. I am aware of several things. Mack Brown gets recruits because Mack Brown is the best combination of a a sincerely good guy and a great coach in NCAA football right now. Texas and OU are the only big 12 teams who belong among the elite in the country and could regularly compete in a conference like the SEC without a problem. Ed is idiotic, Mack Brown is zero as a politician. After complaining about having to play U Michigan in the Rose Bowl a few years back and being unbelievably criticized (especially by the irrelevant Chad Henne) Mack Brown says nothing to campaign to the media. (They demolished U Michigan with roughly the same team they won the championship with in the following year, I wonder if he had a legit complaint, ED?). Also Texas and OU have high octane offenses capable of blowing any insufficient competition out by 50 points. In the SEC, a dominate team not named Florida doesn’t run a spread or score heavy offense, and therefore supperior competition often allows lower competition to stay close score wise. If he thought it helped, Stoops would run up the score on a pop warner team. FYI I attended 10 Texas games this year. Colt McCoy played 3 quarters of most of those games due to blowouts and Texas having class while Bob stoops called play action hail mairys for Bradford as OU was up 40 in the 4th quarter. Class is not a given and Mack Brown has it. Thank you Furman Bisher for reaching outside the Mr. College fball, Tony Barnhart, stretch from gainesville to nashville (football is played outside the SEC Tone). You are one of the few true non-sensationalist sports writers left out there. Keep eloquently telling it as it is and nothing more. Thanks Furman, look forward to Masters Week.
Dear Mr. FB–the sickening part of the Oklahoma method is your comment about it. Here’s why: when standards (criteria) are established for judging the merits of college football teams and teams play the game in accordance with those standards, it is sickening and ill informed to criticize them for it. Your pal, Leland
Furman-Always enjoy your column-about 30 years ago we had Coach Royal & Coach Broyles at Anniston Al QB Club-Coach Royal had just retired and at a young age (?51)When asked why since Texas had everything a coach wanted and he had already won a couple of Natl Championships-his reply-I love coaching, I even love practicing but kissing those 18 year old asses gets old in a hurry. I guess that’s one of those things about college football that hasn’t changed but the money sure is better.
Furman, why did you have to bring up MB. We loved him at UNC and he broke our hearts. I doubt that he would have gone anywhere other than Texas. I still really like him, but Butch has done a great job at soothing our pain. I believe Mack still has a soft place in his heart for us.
As an Atlanta transplant who has lived in Texas for the past 7 years, I have to say your article is “spot on”. Thanks, Mr. Bisher…I am so blessed to be able to read your articles online way out here!
“Don’t hate the player, hate the game. It’s not my fault I played the BCS/politics game and came out ahead…oops,…uh…I guess I came out ahead since we got to play Florida for the championship…Hmmm…now that I think about it after the fact, I’m not sure if I played either game well.” — Bob Stoops.
Hey Codger: Thanks for your opinion. Now go back to opining on what you know about: Gene Sarazen, manual typewriters, horse and buggies, etc. Football’s changed alot in the 50+ years since you went to j-school.
Hey Codger: Thanks for your opinion. Now go back to opining on what you know about: Gene Sarazen, Bobby Jones, manual typewriters, horse and buggies, etc. Football’s changed alot in the 50+ years since you went to j-school.
Pete, Common sense would tell you the Big 12 South was a 3 way tie. Texas all but lost to Tx Tech. OU blew Tx Tech out and was thus ranked the highest of the 3 teams. Tx struggled against Ohio St. The Big 12 system worked and OU gave UF the toughest game of the year which is tough to say as an SEC fan.
Furman, thank you so much for writing the article about Coach Case. I grew up in Winston- Salem when Bones McKinney coached Wake Forest. I was a student at NCSU when coach Case was still there. My wife and I live in Atlanta now, we read your article aloud while having breakfast this morning. You reminded us of the great times we had in Reynolds Coliseum watching Wolfpack basketball! Thank you for bringing back these great memories, and for reminding us of the great tradition Coach Case established at NCSU, and his legacy in founding the modern day ACC. Best regards, Allen Tothill, NCSU class of ’65.
Great column on Mack Brown. I was with him at a Tar Heel Blue get-together in Myrtle Beach when he admitted he planned to leave UNC, because his ambition was to win a national championship and there was no chance of that happening in Chapel Hill. Keep up the good work. One question: How is it that you hired me out of Wofford College in 1954, when you were sports editor of the Constitution, and I have been retired for 10 years and you are still typing sports? It ain’t fair. Mel Derrick.
Good writing but you failed to mention the questionable recruiting tactics used by Mack and his staff. Prostitutes and and drugs are the only thing luring recruits to texas. Just ask Lame Kitten, he’ll tell ya!!
Thanks for bringing a sense of scope and history to this wonderful event, Mr. Bisher. But if you’re singling out non-Americans with a great chance to win, why not Padraic Harrington?
And 22 years later Greg Norman still get score better than Larry Mize! I wanted Norman to win so bad in 1987. I wanted Norman to win in 1996 but he faltered and Nick Faldo won. I wanted Norman to win in 1999 but Ballesteros got the better of him. It’s great to see them all still at it.
Furman, The site of Seve heading back up 10 fairway is one of those moments that make the Masters a classic event like no other. Seve will always be one of my favorite golfers to watch there. I saw him do things there that I still can hardly believe. He could electrify the crowd and he would stalk that course like a beast when he was in contention. I wish he was still able to be there. There have been many golden eras in Masters lore and his time of glory is certainly one of them.
I would love to see Mize and Norman on the first page of the leader board all weekend but I don’t think their nerves will hold up as the course setup gets tougher.
Nice read, Mr. Bisher, but don’t you remember Larry being in contention in ‘94 vs. Ollie and Lehman. I believe he was tied around the 13th hole, but finished three shots back.
Mize was my first interview ever as a journalist and my favorite golfer for a long while after that incredible ‘87 tournament (Didn’t hurt that we both hailed from Augusta and I grew up a Yellow Jacket fan).
As a Georgia native and Tech grad, I spent the 70’s and 80’s in North Carolina. You don’t know what the college game is until you live there.
I heard it pretty much as Mr Bisher reported it here. Case was the pioneer. You’ve never seen a conference as great as the ACC was when
Dean Smith, Lefty Drisell, Norm Sloan, Terry Holland, Bill Foster were all coaching there at the same time. It was a golden era.
Now I wish I hadn’t left the TV to take the Easter basket to my grandaughter. I thought Perry had it sewn up. But heck, I left the Braves’ NL championship Sid Bream game about the 7th so there you go.
Mr. Bisher, two quick corrections. De Vicenzo did not have the Masters won. He would have tied to force a playoff but instead ended up finishing a shot behind due to te incorrect score. The actual quote by De Vicenzo was “What a stupid I am”. Cheers.
It was Easter Sunday at church, then a classic Masters on afternoon TV, for a native Georgian and Southern Baptist, it don’t get much better than that. Okay Lord, you can take me home now.
According to the contemporaneous Sports Illustrated article in 1968, what Roberto de Vicenzo, who spoke very little English, said to the press was, “I am a stupid.”
The final round of the Masters in Augusta National yesterday was the greatest Sunday ever.There were so many sub-plots going on:Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson battling on every hole,Angel Cabrera,Kenny Perry,and Chad Campbell wrestling with nervousness on Sunday.GreatDrama!
Well done Mr. Payne and co. The course has been Perfectly Contstructed the last 3 years… finally the weather cooperated and we were rewarded with fantastic golf. The changes made with the new permanent structures out on the course were excellent. An absolutely fantastic weekend of major golf and beautiful weather.
Advice to Masters
Leave Allister McKenzie and Bobby Jone’s masterpiece alone.
Buy an adjacent piece of property and build a stadium course with
bleachers and skyboxes, and sell another 100,000 tickets. Have Ticketmaster and Stub Hubb sell the badges for thousands of dollars each(which they are already doing online; wonder who the “patrons” are contributing these?) Build a couple more of the WalMart souvenier shops (like the one beside No. 1). Suggest over by No. 5 so us ol’ patrons won’t have to fight the crowds to get to the one over by No. 1.
I have been to the Masters for several decades and it has become a circus.
It’s all about the greed and the money.
I now think the Open is the only Major, all the rest are driven by Capitalism.
This years’ Masters was one of the best ever. I hated to see anyone lose.
I have been racking my old brain all day. Someone please tell me who was the tall golfer from Rome or Gainesville who kept Roberto’s score card? I just can’t remember.
I stand corrected. It took a while to find it, but de Vicenzo’s quote was, “I play golf all over the world for 30 years, and now all I can think of is what a stupid I am to be wrong in this wonderful tournament.”
Kenny Perry may have ‘tired’, but he did certainly ‘choke’. Big time. But somehow no one wants to say it. And Mr. Campbell, you have a 4 foot putt to keep in the game. You leave it right. That, too, was a ‘choke’. But who can blame them? It’s the Masters and only ‘masters’ should win. These 2 journeymen golfers proved it by wilting under the pressure, siezed by the moment, not seizing it. The winner? Yep, the guy who didn’t lose it. Great day, nice article, so-so tournament.
de Vicenzo was robbed of a playoff appearance against Goalby in “68 by Augusta National officials and Tommy Aaron, both who conspired to stop a foreigner from winning the tournament. Aaron and Masters officials, who had similar, but not exactly the same, reasons to hate the Argentine– one of which was the fact that Argentina had welcomed and hidden some of the most heinous Nazi criminals– both knew that de Vicenzo’s lack of English would make him easy prey for the absurd and archaic formality of players keeping their own score, an outrageous rule that should have been abolished in every golf tournament the first day their was ever an official on the golf course. Do basketball players have to report the final score at the end of the game? And if incorrect, have to forfeit, for example, a SEC game? Aaron gave de Vicenzo a 4 on the 17th, when he had actually scored a game-changing birdie. Isn’t that interesting. Aaron WORSENED de Vicenzo’s score, and at the most critical time of the tourney. Human error? Guess again. Everyone on the planet following golf then, not only knew the score of every player on top of the leaderboard, but would never have forgotten one the biggest moments in the entire day. de Vincezo’s birdie on 17 was absolutely huge. And why was Aaron “taking care” of de Vicenzo’s scorecard? Master’officials probably assured de Vicenzo that “we’ll take care it.” They took care of him alright. Can you imagine if Ben Crenshaw had had a mistake on his card? He would have been gently taken aside and given a few minutes to correct it, and no one would have been the wiser.
Noel Habib and Jay: Get a clue. You show your ignorance of golf or stupidity (if you know the game and still stand by Noel’s post). You may not agree with the rules of golf but they have been that way for over 130 years. Read and learn:
1) In golf, my playing partner keeps my score and I keep his. However, I also keep my own score hole-by-hole and compare it to what my playing partner has giving me the chance to correct his error. I can compare results after each hole and then again at the end of the round. By signing the scorecard at the end of the round, I am agreeing that what my playing partner has tabulated is right. I don’t have to sign unless we agree so I have the ultimate opportunity to correct any error. This method — based on math not a command of English — has nothing whatsoever to do with ethnicity, race, country of origin, politics, etc. Furthermore, Roberto De Vicenzo never once blamed anyone else and received in 1970 the Bob Jones Award from the USGA for his sportsmanship and classy behavior.
2) Gary Player, a South African and therefore a ‘foreigner’, won his first Masters in 1961 well before Roberto’s opportunity so there was no reason for anyone to conspire to prevent a foreigner from winning.
3) Roberto would have qualified for a playoff if not for the scorecard error. Back in those days, a playoff meant 18 holes the next day. So we cannot assume he would have won the playoff.
I guess Furman Bisher does his best but either he or his editors continually let him file stories with incorrect facts which undermine FBs credibility — Perry didn’t ‘tire’ in the playoff: he choked over the last two holes of his 4th round blowing it with bogey’s at 17 (a terrible approach shot to the green from the middle of the fairway followed by one of the worst chip shots ever) and 18 (a tee shot into the fairway bunker followed by a lousy third shot and missing a 15 foot putt to win) and he choked in the playoff, the Green Jacket was not De Vicenzo’s to give to Goalby as they would have had to play 18 the next day, and De Vicenzo is ultimately responsible for his scorecard so any error is on him and is of his doing.
Thanks, Furman. You write with such ease and brevity. Your description of this classic Masters will be copied and quoted long after we have passed. Keep on keeping on!
Furman, I have loved your column for 30+ yrs, but you are now showing that you are a true “Homer”. I would not be overly concerned either under normal circumstances. However, nothing is normal! Bobby, for some incredibly inane reason, is giving these bullpen pitchers way too long to come into a groove. They cost us last year(check the blown saves), and they look absolutely Class A’ish this year. I know it is early, but if he doesn’t run the current pen out of Atlanta, he will be looking at a 70-75 win season which puts us in 4th or 5th place in the division. He loves being loyal to his players, but when they consistantly go out and under acheive, it is time for the loyalty to end. I would like to know if other Atlantans feel the same as I do. Thank you.
Agree with Tom Johnson. How about bringing up the Hanson kid and/or Reyes and using somebody (Kawakami/Vasquez) for middle relief. Even Mike Gonzalaez has been giving me indigestion everytime he pitches. Pitchers need to throw strikes and please, for the love of G*D, would our batters please stop swinging at first pitches.
We needed base runners in the 9th inning and every idiot at the plate is swinging away. We need to hold Terry Pendelton and Rodger whatever accountable.
I agree with you in principle, Mr. Bisher; the WBC/Selig both need to disappear and the Braves aren’t hopeless. In fact, I think they’ll win the division if Bobby leaves Moylan alone for a bit and they trade for a middle reliever. However, I feel the need to point out a Dolphin is a mammal, not a fish (unless you’re referring to the Mahi Mahi, a.k.a. Dolphin…but you weren’t).
I apologize, sir; that came across much snarkier than I intended. Your journalistic skills are beyond reproach. I typed it with a smile but it probably didn’t come across that way.
As far as that WBC garbage, I didn’t watch one second of it. In fact, I wish it would go away forever. As for the Braves, I will first say that I have NEVER been a fan of Bobby Cox. He doesn’t know how to handle a pitching staff, and I have been saying that ever since Game 6 of the 1991 World Series against Minnesota. Alejandro Pena is pitching great, and “genius” decides to bring in Charlie “Creampuff” Leibrandt to face Kirby Puckett. I was sitting with a bunch of friends who weren’t big baseball fans and I told them, “We just lost this game”. I had seen enough of both players to know that Kirby would crush the ball, and he did. Game over. Ever since then, I have hated Bobby Cox.
He is definitely way too loyal to his players. Another thing he does is he will bring in someone like Boyer who will get his brains beaten in(for Christ’s sake, a 40 ERA), and the next night Cox will bring him out again. The next game he will do it again. And don’t get me started on Chipper. A sore thumb? Are you &%%^*^ kidding me? I knew he wouldn’t go the first week of the season without taking himself out of a game.
You summed it up perfectly. This is a 500 team at best. One or two injures like they always have…can’t even get through 10 games… with the wrong people and they are less than 500….punch and judy with terrible relief pitching is not a formula for success.
If Fredi comes back to Atlanta not only his entire coaching staff but the Marlin scouts also have to be here. Except for McCann and Francoeur the pickings are slim. Mark it. The Braves will finish no higher than 4th.
It’s amazing how they keep counting on Chipper Jones…well if Chipper will just stay healthy blah blah blah…the man does NOT stay healthy through a season EVER anymore. Then they give him a huge contract. The team has no cleanup hitter, only a couple of decent to good starting pitchers and a scary bullpen at best. And oh yeah they don’t have a real leadoff hitter either. Plus a center fielder obviously not yet ready for the bigs on both defense and offense. I gave up on this team before the season started after the poor offseason moves.
Bud Selig is the “Michael Adams” of baseball, and the WBC is his version of the “UGA Foundation.” I spent a week watching the Braves in Florida and believed that they were going to have a chance at post-season play. I am not so sure now. Turner Field is a beautiful place, and the Braves will play some good baseball at times this season. I dropped my hundred dollars there last week, and that will do it for a while.
Tom Johnson – You my friend, are absolutely correct. Bobby is TOO loyal to his players, even to the point of collapse. The bullpen was and still is a HUGE concern for this years team. The need to blow it up, and start over right now while the season has just begun. If it were up to me, I would keep a short leash on Gonzalez as closer and mix in Soriaon (while keeping his 8th inning duties). Moylan will be alright, he just can’t pitch on back to back nights…yet. Our main concern will be the 5th & 6th inning/spot. Buddy is ok at that spot, but Bennett, O’flaherty, Boyer, Campillo all need to go. They have the ability to make these changes with guys at AAA that can fill these spots. They were impressed with Medlin, they have Acosta (who is an upgrade in my opinion, and Charlie Morton. PLEASE DON’T WAIT UNTIL IT’S TOO LATE!
While I know baseball is 162 games, and we have thus far only played eleven, if it isn’t yet time to “panic”, the time has come for definite “concern”.
Chipper is out. (Again) Yunel is injured, the bullpen looks extremely vulnerable, and the team ERA is higher than the national debt.
Yes, I remember 1992, when the team was seven games out of first place, and in last place, after a loss in Philadelphia, in late
May. We went to New York, spanked the then hapless Mets twice, and were on our way. (Shows you I’ve been a Braves fan for a long time if I remember that).
The problem now is, that except for Washington, we have three other teams in our division that are capable of making the postseason. The Marlins look very good. The Mets have a lot of talent, and the Phillies are the World Champs. I do not think this Braves team can park itself 9 1-2 games out of first in July as we did in 1991, and ten games out of first in August, as we did in 1993, and rally to make the postseason. The reason? We dont have Greg Maddux, John Smoltz, and Tom Glavine in their primes anymore. (We technically still have Tom, but who knows if he will ever pitch again, and if he does, he’s 43 years old) We used to do things like win thirteen games in a row (In 1992) or fifty five out of our last eighty three games, (In 1991) This team, would need to climb the mountain with consistent play all season, and not, bad for one half, and then a burning hot streak. I dont think this team will go on those kinds of streaks anymore. We are a potentially good club, but not like that.
I think we need to turn it around soon. Yes, it’s early, but we need to stand up to the big boys, and play well against the Mets and Phils and home, and at least, 500 on the road. The way this team will make the wild card is to do things like win in the high 40s to 50 wins at home,and play 500 on the road. If we dont do that, we wont make it.
Okay, long post. I’m done. Early, yes. Too early to “panic”? Probably. Not too early, however, to be “concerned”. We need to play better, and soon.
It may be to early for you Mr Bisher but the Braves are the same as last 3 years. Same BS!
Time for Cox to retire and bring in Ned Yost and Leo Mazzone back. Mr Wren has proved that he’s not the right man for the job. This is the same crap over and over.
No…it’s not time to panic yet. With this collection of ball players, there will (always) be plenty of time for that. Schafer is definitely NOT ready to play at this level. He is “deer in the headlights” at the plate, a made-to-order rally killer at the plate. He’s surely not ready to be a starter at this level. His defense is poor. Lots of balls over his head, and then he heads (too late)into the wall. Really poor, defensively. He’s a liability with the glove, as Kelly Johnson continues to be. (His “sun” excuse was just that…an excuse for choking a sure DP). The Braves bullpen is a disaster. That includes Mike Gonzales…terrible mechanics…too many moving parts…can’t field his position, falling so hard to the 3rd base side. His commmand and control is shakey. He slows his body down so much, he telegraphs his off speed stuff. Worst part is, he’s supposed to be the best of this bullpen. Chipper…since 2003 he’s perpetually hurt. He might as well be a coach. The Braves are a poor collection of mediocre talent. If they are lucky, they will finish ahead of the Nationals. Everyone else in the division will pound on them. It’s going to be a long season. To be competitive with the players the Braves have, well, that’s impossible. Once again this year, I purchased MLB Extra Innings package, to watch Braves’ games. Bad move. I won’t make that mistake again.
My biggest concern is that the Braves lack discipline. They are not disciplined at the plate and, in the field, often failed to make the routine plays (see Kelly Johnson and Garret Anderson). We never even consider trying to manufacture a run, the Braves always just sit back and wait for someone to try and hit a home run. The bullpen is a disaster–that goes without saying. But somewhere, somehow, someone take a walk, steal a base, sacrifice to third. Do the little things that good teams do to win.
I hope you are right. However consider the following: Gonzales, Sorieno, and Moylan are all nursing repaired arms. Moylan has pitched in 6 of the last ten games. Do Cox and McDowell need a calculator? We lack good right handed power, especially when Chipper is out. We have a rookie center fielder who lacks defensive and offensive experience. He needs a year at triple A. Blanco has more experience and is better in both categories. Our weaknesses are obvious? Why do we see so much left handed pitching?? Duh. We have so many left handed batters. KJ is a fair hitter, but a terrible clutch fielder, Prado is better. Prado is also a right handed bat.
I know it’s early but I bet if you check the record books you’ll find that teams that start out of the gate hot like the Marlins often win their divisions and do very well. And teams like the Braves who start out mediocre and now losing 5 straight often continue in that mediocre mode. They’re too injury prone and their bullpen is a mess. It’s not Cox’s fault but I sure wish he’d retire. Nothing will change till he does. This is another weak team with no power and no bullpen. Looks centerfield is iffy too. This team lacks talent. They may have heart but they are a third tier team. As many are saying, thank goodness for the Nationals.
Too early to panic kids. We only don’t have a real cleanup hitter, no bullpen or manager that realizes baseball is not played like it was in 1991. Why is everyone so nervous? Right? Uh….. right?
ISAID BEFORE THE FIRST PITCH OF THE 09 SEASON THE BRAVES WOULD FINISH 4TH ,I WAS RIGHT AS USUAL, THE BRAVES PAY CHIPPER 40 MILLION TO PLAY 1OO GAMES,BUT THEY CANT PAY SMOLTZ 5MILLION TO REHAB ARM,REMBER THESE DATES JUNE 28,29.30 2009 THIS IS WHEN THE REDSOX INVADE TURNER FIELD IGUARANTEE SMOLTZ WILL BE HERE , IGUARANTEE HE WILL BEAT THE SORRY A SS BRAVES, FIRE FRANK WREN, AND BOBBY COX/
I’m not worried, because I never expected anything from these mediocre bums. I’m trying to stay in Frank Wren’s court, but apparently he’s WREN OVER HIS HEAD. This season becomes interesting, however, when: 1. Braves trade several current starters for Jake Peavy. Kelly Johnson is a stiff, as are Jeff Francoeur, Matt Diaz, and Garret Anderson. Feel free to toss in Jojo Reyes. 2. Promote Jason Heyward and Tommy Hanson immediately. 3. Offer Chipper a trade to a contender by mid-season. Someone in the AMERICAN LEAGUE can use a brilliant hitter, who can no longer stand the day to day stress of playing the field. Not only that, Chipper is a cork in the bottle of whatever new identity the Braves will assume. The team needs to move on. 4. Politely inform Mr. Cox that his services are no longer needed. This is an ugly situation that could turn disastrous, if somebody doesn’t move, and move quick.
The Braves have to get rid of Jo-Jo Reyes. He’s no good. The Braves made a right decision to let Boyer go. He was a total liability. Bring up Tommy Hanson. Let’s try to bounce back and beat the Marlins and Phillies.
I guess we’re not watching the same player. I saw him strike out against the Marlins on balls that were in the left handers batter box on two pitches. I don’t think he could have hit those balls with a fishing pole.
ONCE AGAIN TERRENCE MOORE WAS RIGHT BRING BACK EDGAR JERMAINE DYE SHEFFIELD JD.DREW ANDREW JONES MARK LEMKE KEVIN MILLWOOD. ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN THIS PIECE OF CRAP THAT`S SO-CALLED PLAYING.
CHIPPER LARRY JONES YOU MIGHT AS WELL GONE UP TO BOSTON WITH JOHN SMOLTZ,CAUSE THE BRAVES ARE SHOT TO HELL.
1991 is 18 years ago. Why do they continue paying Pendleton? Why do they have to go to Texas to find hitting instruction? Please keep Diaz in left field and use Anderson as the hitting coach.
I agree with all of the posts in reference to “it being too early to press the panic button”, BUT there are clear signs that need to be addressed RIGHT NOW! If Bobby thinks that things will just “work themselves out”, then we will be in 4th place with very little chance of recovery. The challenge with Bobby is this, it’s not “the Braves of old” anymore (that had enough veteran talent/winners/proven commodities for him to take a “sit back metality”). Bobby is no longer suited this type of team, what I mean by that is we need a youn, aggressive manager, that can do more with less. A manager that will not waiver on making tough decisions with veterans and put the best players on the field for success. It’s time for change.
If you were (GM) building a major league team which player (star) on the Braves team would you pick to build your team around? Think about it and give your answer. 1….2. 3…
Poorbrave – 1.)Jordan Schafer – Before the whole steriod issue he was one the highest ranking players in the Braves system…he can have an immediate impact with his speed, defense, and eventually will be a leadoff hitter that will set the table for the rest of the offense. Upside +++++
2.) Tommy Hanson – Excellent (number 1 starter) stuff, but needs innings/seasoning in order to “learn how to pitch” and avoid being rushed to the majors Upside – unlimited
3.) Jason Heyward – All the tools needed to be successful in the majors, should be on the club right now, needs to be promoted ASAP.
I am in concurrence with most of the bloggers. Bobby Cox should consider retirement, (at least from th e braves!). Chipper needs to be traded to the American League where he doesn’t need to field the ball. He can still hit at least sometimes from the left side of the plate. He never could really hit well from the right. (I know he is the defending NL batting champ and he has been a terrific switch hitter.) The bullpen is in dissarray again. Bobby seemed confused in the Florida meltdown. He did not appear to know who he wanted called into the game. Not that it would have made a real difference! Jarrett Anderson should have retired with the Angels. Bring in the brothers (that can play). Acosta in the bullpen might help. Until major changes happen I will be joining Bobby Cox with a wait and see what happens attitude.
It may not be time to panic, but I feel compelled to point out some obvious things.
This team does not have the depth to be a condtender. Consider that when their best players get hurt, they get mired in a losing streak. Additionally, the bullpen is showing its true form yet again at its inablility to get people out. This is not a stab at anyone’s heart, whether they’re putting forth the effort, but the fact is, this team is not built to be a playoff team. If there’s anyone to blame, the front office is the culprit. For whatever reason (recession, or just plain greed) the management has seen fit to tighten their belts, preventing the Braves from being able to compete for quality players, something they’re sufficiently lacking in.
I think Bobby Cox is a good manager. I think his players are doing their best…. but I think management needs to step up and provide more to payroll in order to be able to compete for top-level talent. Otherwise, I think this team is in for several more underachieving seasons. Just my observation.
The sad part to me is that the Braves are now like a stale, outdated pastry item. This is essentially the same movie we have seen for the last four years and nobody is willing to change things. I for one have grown quite tired of seeing reruns of poor decisions by Cox, quirk injuries to Chipper, a bullpen full of insufficient talent, and a front office that just repeats the same mistakes. I would like to thank Cox, Chipper, Glavine, Schuerholz & Wren for their past glories and efforts but kindly ask them all to move on somewhere else. We need a new look and a new direction.
It is a fact that Bobby Cox does not have a clue about pitching. He continues to bring in the same pitchers that cost us game after game. And ignores the ones that have a decent record. Whats with that? As for saying that the team cannot win without Chipper in the lineup, you might as well get used to losing. Chipper’s body is not in baseball shape, for whatever reason, and he will be out with injurys all season long. He has just not put in the work he needed to play a full season. I have been a Braves fan forever, but realize that it is time for Bobby to go and bring up some young talent to turn things around this year.
Can anybody second the fact that we need Prado in as an everyday player. He is our Mark Derosa of the team we need to find him playing time no matter what.
Sorry Furman, I disagree. I knew the Braves were going to be the same old Braves of the last few years after the 3rd game of the season. They played like the punks they have become. Over the past few years, they’ve allowed good teams to punk them out time and time again and things have not changed and won’t change until some changes are made. They Braves need a new strong leader, not a cheerleader in the dugout.
Who suggested to use Vazquez for middle relief? Didn’t he strike out 8 yesterday? Isn’t he like second in the NL in strikeouts?
Those of you calling for Hanson, I think you will get your wish sooner than later.
I agree totally, way too early to panic. I wasn’t surprised at how well the Marlins played, I heard Bobby in an interview in spring training raving about their pitching, and yes, I for one thinks Bobby sure knows what he is talking about.
Anyone else notice that the Braves do better w/ Chipper? Let’s pray he stays healthy, as relevant a term as that may be for Chipper.
The Marlins showed right away what kind of team this is. When will the Braves ever realize that they play every game with us like it’s the seventh game of the World Series? Dont they remember 1997? This team
has totally given up! I feel betrayed and will consider cancelling my MLB package too.
We have a mediocre team and we don’t need 100 more games to figure that out. Why? Because the starting rotation is at best #3, but more likely #4 or #5, in the division. The bully is just awful. You can’t win without a strong bully. Couple that with an average offense and we are in for another long, frustrating season.
intellibird…or should I say dumbassbird…I don’t know if you have noticed, but Vasquez near the top of the NL in strikeouts and could be considered the Ace of our staff at this current time. You don’t move a pitcher like that to the bullpen. Also, I saw Tommy Hanson pitch in Gwinnett yesterday and he was very hittable. I’m not saying he won’t be in our rotation this year, but he has some work to do.
Marlins have a great scouting dept; not so much player development. I can think of only 3 guys on that team drafted by Florida (Johnson, Hermida, Volstad). The rest were acquired by trade or from the scrapheap (Rule 5). They have an outstanding roster, although I think their faulty bullpen, below average defense, and their penchant for striking out will come back to haunt them. They are not off to a fantastic start because of Fredi Gonzalez. You can thank their scouting department for their success. They should have been swept by Washington, if not for the Nats inability to hold a 9th inning lead. I think the Marlin balloon will start leaking helium soon.
What’s bully? Okay….Not using it in the context of the ‘mean playground bully’. Bully’s also a baseball term used by some players/broadcasters, and yes some fans like me, for the bullpen.
I agree with turkey. Bring Freddy Gonzales here, his staff and the Marlins scouts!! In the mean time, get a different hitting coach and please bring Mazzone back! There’s a rumor he’s available and we have not won the division since he left. Also, in the mean time, drop the retread middle relievers from last year. Bennett is a choke artist, gladly Boyer’s gone and who the hell is O’Flaherty??
Furman, you’ve got to be kidding. The Braves are a joke as well as that well-past-retirement-time manager Cox. Cox has LOST IT. Puts in #1 reliever Soriano to close a game that the Braves have already LOST instead of putting him in to close a game they are LEADING. The old man is SENILE. Kind of like your article! The Braves are DONE for 2009. Plus they can’t seem to wake up to the fact that Boyer, Carlile and Moylan are PATHETIC. Book it…this season is OVER. They will finish 20-25 games below .500.
The Braves are at best a 500 club. I agree with most of the comments. When was the last time we drafted a first line pitcher. Almost all of our great pitching prospects have failed at the Major League level.
Also, it seems we are happy to have a journeyman first baseman with no power becaue he is signed for three more years.
Kelly Johnson is just too streaky. He looks great for 5 or 6 games then disappears.
The Braves have very little power and not enough high batting average players to make up for the lack of power.Also,it sure seems we lack those “clutch” players.
On top of that Pete, Ernie and Skip are now all gone.
Maybe Schurholtz should re read his book and reshape the organization again.
Relief staff overall is a disaster. If Boyer is a major league pitcher I’m a jet airline pilot. Had no business in the majors. Moylan so inconsistent…Starters are making enough money to pitch more than 6 0r 7 innings, less in some cases.
Just posted up stats on the other half of the RENTERIA trade after JURJJENS’ stunning shutout performance tonight. GORKYS HERNANDEZ: 51 AB with a .373 AVG in AA MISSISSIPPI. 9 BB and 10 SO with only 1 error. Sweet. Maybe FRANK WREN is not as inept as many here think. That deal sure left me with egg on my face.
Furman Bisher is a great man. I remember back in the seventies when the Braves were horribile, Furman had some extra braves tickets. He went to cumberland mall and put the tickets under his wiper blade. He left three, when he came out he had about ten more! And then he wrote about it. It was about the time everyone started putting bags on their head. Furman got us through it. He is a real Georgia treasure. Just like the Braves.
Furman, it doesn’t have to be doom and gloom but some accountability for a wretched offense and some EPIC bullpen meltdowns would be nice. The Braves have always had it easy, comparatively, in the local media. The Yanks have only 2 wins more than the Braves right now and the headlines are already SCATHING. I’m not saying the Braves deserve that kind of treatment but they do deserve some harsh criticism because these games can be the difference in finishing in the Wild Card spot and 3 games out of it. They all count.
In addition to not making the Pro Football Hall of Fame (a travesty in my opinion and in the opinion of practically every long-standing Falcon fan), not many people know that when Arthur Blank took over the Falcons organization, he distanced “his” organization from much of the Falcons’ past history.
This distancing includes outstanding representatives of the organization like Tommy Nobis and many, many others. And this year Jack Ragsdale, long-time head of ticket sales for the Falcons, finally threw in the towel.
Unfortunately, these stories never find their way into the newspaper or into the public consciousness.
Arthur Blank has done some good things for Atlanta, but distancing “his” current organization (the Atlanta Falcons franchise) from quality people like Tommy Nobis is not among them.
From what I understand, Tommy merely suggested that maybe it wasn’t the best idea in the world for Arthur Blank to be down on the field at the conclusion of Falcons games. Whether that had anything to do with the fact that Tommy no longer has a position with the Falcons is the reason or not, no one knows, but it possibly did contribute to it.
There are a number of Falcon fans that would prefer that Arthur Blank not go down on the field at the end of games. Walking around the perimeter of the stadium and greeting fans from the field prior to the start of a game is fine, but let the Jerry Jones’ go down on the field. Stay in your suite. The only possible reason that Arthur Blank should be on the field following the end of a game is to accept the Lombardi Trophy.
Tommy Nobis is the best player the Atlanta Falcons have ever had, and he and Warrick Dunn are probably the best humanitarian players the team has ever had as well.
I remember Randy Johnson and Bob Berry playing QB for the Falcons. It’s sad that Randy’s life took the path that it did, but maybe he is learning something from his travails and will perhaps be able to steer someone else away from the direction he took.
Thanks for another fine article about the past, Furman. Thanks for keeping the memories alive.
Nobis was All World on a pretty crappy team. I remember the hit he put on Tarkenton to end the game, on our first Monday Night win. I agree that Blank should embrace the former players and followers, as we supported many horrible years by buying season tickets before the Dome became a hip hop arena. Continual price increases to long term fans to subsidize the $10.00 seats is no way to show any appreciation to us. ( I know we were under league average, but overpaid for the product being sold). BTW, I dropped my 4 tickets last year after 41 years of support. I still watch all the games, as I am a true Falcoholic. Must say the beer is cheaper and the restroom cleaner at my place. Go Falcons and let’s not forget the past legends. Another great column Furman!
Very good and timely Bisher. THESE are the stories that are yours to write. Give us some history and context on the Birds (Hawks, Falcons) and the Braves. Real fans appreciate your knowledge and wisdom.
In the 1966 NFL Draft Nobis was the #1 Pick overall and Johnson the #16 pick (the extra first round pick) of the first round. Rassas was the first pick in ROUND 2.
Standing in the concession line at Fulton County Stadium during an exhibition game circa 1985, it wasn’t until he was ordering that I realized I was behind Nobis. When we were both dressing our hotdogs, I told him how much I had enjoyed watching him play. He was humble and gracious – and buying his own dogs at the stand, not eating filet mignon in a suite. A good guy that Tommy Nobis.
It truly is a travesty that Tommy Nobis isn’t in the NFL HOF. He really was an effective defense pretty much all by himself. If he had played anywhere except Atlanta, he would be in the HOF. A great player and a great human being. If I was Arthur Blank, I’d want Nobis around my team, just to give lessons on being human.
Thank you Furman Bisher.
I googled Randy Johnson about a week or two ago wondering what became of him.
Tommy Nobis was maybe the best middle linebacker in the era of great ones.
It is a travesty that he is not in the Hall.
Arthur Blank should do everything he can to get Nobis in.
Tommy Nobis is a nice guy and long overdue HOF’er, but judging from the color work he used to do on the Falcons pre-season games many years ago, not too bright. Arthur Blank may have sensed that too. Besides, cuts had to be made somewhere to overpay Michael Vick. I did love how Nobis would throw the ball into the stands after an interception. Hell, he may have had the best arm on the team!
Randy Johnson had guts (or perhaps no brains) for playing most of the time with his chin strap unbuckled behind some horrific offensive lines. I think he finally learned his lesson when Sam Huff ripped off his helmet, very nearly with his head in it.
Terrible Truth, you are 100% right on Tommy and Arthur. Tommy was not a great color guy and AB was and still is learning as a new owner. As for AB being on the field, WTH- if I owned the team that is where I would be.
Nobis gave autographs generously and with a friendly smile when I was a kid in the ’70’s. I think I got two or three of them over time. Even at my young age, it was clear he was the kind of sportsman the youth league coaches wanted you to be, too.
Hey, what’s with the anti – Furman comments? Why, what would we be without Chipper?
Glav? (Unfortunately we may find out too soon) and Bish?! Players come and go just as writers
do but great writers like Furman are why we older guys and gals stick around during good and bad times with the Braves. An old Dodger fan I came to Atlanta in ‘68 and it took me a while to come around to the Braves. Ted recruited me into the 400 Club and the days of 1000 fans per game
came and went. Finally….1991 and the great run of 14 straight for the Bravos….who was our inside man? …why Bish, of course. Long may he write and long may I enjoy to read a master who I picture still using an old typewriter. Thanks for the memories and inside views of a real pro.
As the Constitution NFL beat man for the first 15 years of Falcon history, and a member of the Hall of Fame Board of Selectors for that period, I fought an uphill battle to get Tommy Nobis in the Hall. Unfortunately, others put more emphasis on the team’s shaky leadership and its losing ways rather than Nobis’great defense. Most opponents ranked him above Dick Butkus, the NFL’s cover star of the times. Now that they’ve moved Nobis to the seniors’ division, I’m still trying and not giving up. One problem, those who do the voting today never saw Nobis play. I’ve had success in the past, successfully reopening the case for Johnny Mize and Rick Ferrell in the baseball Hall of Fame and for (Georgia Tech’s) Bill Fincher in the College Hall of Fame. The Falcons themselves need to help. If I’m not mistaken, with exception of Norm Van Brocklin, I don’t think there’s a single purely Falcon in the Pro Hall of Fame. As for Randy Johnson, if you took the beating he took for the helpless Falcons of his day, you’d have trouble too. Once he was so beat-up from endless sacks, he lined up behind the guard to take the snap.I treasure my times with the Falcons. It was like being in the trenches together and under extreme fire. It was a lot harder for Nobis to do what he did than it was for Butkus to take his bows.
Furman: Great article and keep more of the same coming as you are the one person who can share insight and perspective about sports in general and former great Atlanta athletes that most people do not know about in particular. By the way, can you do anything to get Nobis considered for the HOF? If so, put your time and effort where your pen is and get after it.
If I owned the team, I would go on the field after the game if I wanted to although I would be smart enough not to. If I worked for the Falcons, I would be smart enough to let the owner ask me for advice about whether he should go on the field and bite my tongue otherwise.
Also, if I were the owner, I would be smart enough to always welcome back former Atlanta Falcons especially those like Tommy Nobis, Claude Humphrey, Jim Zook, Jesse Tuggle, Mike Kenn, Robert Pennywell, Steve Bartkowski, Bob Berry, Tim Mazzetti, etc. as honoring the past is the way you show respect for the franchise.
When I served as pastor of a Baptist Church west of Atlanta back in the mid-70’s, I heard a knock on my office door one evening and greeted a casually dressed, stumpy, athletic-type guy that was looking for a certain church in the area, where he was scheduled to speak to the Boy Scouts. His name was Tommy Nobis. I marveled that such a high profile, professional athlete would take time out to drive to Mableton, GA and address a group of scouts. Needless to say, I was impressed by the man as well as the athlete. Unquestionably, he was a role-model for many.
Check google news concerning a San Antonio sports radio talkshow host, Eugene Williams, who is attempting to start a campaign to raise the profile of Nobis and get him in the Hall of Fame. It would be nice to see the Atlanta sports media get behind such a campaign. Nobis earned it on the field; unfortuantely he happened to play for a lousy franchise, in a then-small market, which was seldom one of the featured teams on the two or three nationally-broadcast games on each Sunday afternoon back in the latter 60s and early 70s.
Furman, keep it comin’ old guy. Been reading you since I was a youngster back in the ’60s. It is wonderful that there is still a “journalist” at the AJC. I had no idea that Randy Johnson had taken such a bad turn….too bad..he did take a beating in those early years. Hope he can shed the demons.
My most memorable Nobis game was on Dec. 18, 1966. The Falcons had won 3 of the last 4 games and they were playing the Pittsburg Steelers. Now this wasn’t the Steelers of the ’70’s by no means. They were worse than the expansion Falcons. I had won 4 tickets in a promotion from the local Coca-Cola Bottling Co. in the community I grew up in. We just knew it was going to be a win. As it was all the Falcons wanted to do was show up and get it over with. Get a paycheck and go home. But not Tommy Nobis. He played his heart out that day. Tackle after tackle. The other story of that day was a former UGA QB that had been released by the Falcons early that season. The Steelers picked him up and converted him to running back and he ran all over the Falcons that day. That QB’s name was Preston Ridlehuber. He took over the game and almost single handed beat the Falcons. He had to be sore after that game. I think Nobis was the only one that tackled him that day.
Why would anyone be surprised at the trade of Josg Anderson? He has the potential to steal bases, bunt for a single, turn a double into a triple leading to something that is baffling to Bobby Cox–manufacturing a run in a close game!
There’s only one hope for this team with Bobby Cox. Shutout pitching and a solo homer, just like what Glavine and Justice did to give this man his only championship despite given a wealth of talent for 14 years.
Actually, I disagree. Look at our lineup – McCann, KJ, Escobar, Chipper, Schaefer, and Frenchy were all brought up through the farm system (as were Martin Prado, Brandon Jones, and Jo-Jo Reyes). Hanson will be up soon. While the hitting has been atrocious, this likely has very little to do with the organization the player came up with.
Jordan Schafer, Jason Heyward, Tommy Hanson, Freddie Freeman, Cole Rohrbaugh.. etc etc etc.
We have the 2nd rated farm system in all of baseball right now. Your complaining because we traded away Josh Anderson to give Schafer a chance to play every game? Jordan has the 2nd highest OBP behind Chipper.
Who exactly did we give up to get Derek Lowe? The biggest mistake was trading Salty for Tex, but we will learn from that.
Didnt we trade away a vet in Edgar Renteria to get Jair Jurrjens? I would say that worked out. Give the front office a break. They want to win now, and win later. Chipper isnt getting any younger.
The Braves have one of the best farm systems in the major leagues. Go over to Gwinnett and look for yourself. Then take a holiday to Myrtle Beach and while there take in a game. Our farm system is getting ready to explode with talent. The Braves future is bright and Wren appears to be more stingy with our prospects than his predecessor.
Mr. Bisher is right…. despite what you’re listing as current players, the fact is the trades he has listed are fact….and if any of you think that giving the five “golden” farm kids away for a one year rental of a selfish player like Tex, or an often injured Drew…then you can’t be helped.
Not having traded those kids away might negate the need for Lowe, KK, or Vasquez to all come here with the big salaries…
My, my….look what’s happening now with McCann needing a seeing eye dog…where is Salty when you need him?…ask Big John the former GM…
Maybe Salty would have been playing first intead of Kothman, and could have slipped behind the plate easily…and Elvis Andrus might well be pushing Escobar….
…and on and on…
Yes folks, Mr. Bisher (remember that, because he earned that respect while most of you were still in dirty diapers)….Mr. Bisher has forgotten more than most of you will ever know….
Kelly Jonhnson is a bust. Schaffer will be a decent player, but not a difference maker. Escobar is the only thing resembling a star the Braves have produced since Chipper. I agree with u Furman. I dont know what these clowns are doing. Its not like we’re bringin in Top Notch talent via free agency. we get an over the hill pitcher, one who just gives it up and eats innings, and a Japanese who cant find the strike zone. Where is Manny, or Burnett, or Sabathia, or anybody who would make a difference. How do u spend all this money to be a .500 team, it makes no sense. we could have done that with the talent we have in the farm system. If there isnt a better second baseman than Kelly Johnson in the system, its a JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Correction….Smoltz did not come out of the Braves farm system, he was in the Detroit system and the Braves stole him in the Doyle Alexander deal. That said, I agree that the Braves have mortgaged their future on bad trades that did not work out, and destroyed the farm system. I fear the Vazquez trade will be another one that is regretted.
Its always terrific to get the scenile musings of a geriatric in your morning paper. Nevermind that Baseball America and ESPN both rank our farm talent among their top-five. Nevermind that Furman Bischer is clearly old and out of touch. Let’s just churn out another overwrought piece of journalistic garbage and expect the public to digest it because “it’s Furman!”… THIS is why newspapers are dying.
Furman Bisher has been writing foolish stuff for decades. Check out the old Bear Bryant stories. The Braves may have traded away some good prospects for Tex but the farm is not empty. There are other writers this paper that don’t agree with the senile one.
people…pay attention…there are two things that are being talked about here, and while i agree with Mr. Bisher most of the time today i dont. The farm system (FS) is not dried up, it has just been sprinkled on other teams (though we do have some great potential talent up and coming). The braves problem is not free agency nor the current FS it has been the three poor trades talked about in this article…though the fact that we have made three poor trades costing us around 15 prospects proves that the FS is not dried up…people wanted the goods that we have, and we still have 12 to 15 potential studs out there. The article should have been titled “Trades that have crippled the Braves”, instead.
It’s okay everybody — just smile, nod, humor the old man, and go to Dave O’Brien’s blogs for actual news on the Braves and their very promising, very strong farm system.
Due respect Furman, but your head is up your ass if you think the Braves’ farm system has “dried up.” Get real. The Braves have one of the richest farm systems in baseball.
Furman, do you even know anything about Atlanta sports anymore? Dude, I respect you but I think its time for you to retire. I was going to go down the list of high rated home grown prospects that the Braves have at or near the major league level, but bluedar and others have pretty much covered it (good job). If there ever was a problem with the farm system it can be argued that the problem existed several years ago, but has been corrected in the past few years. As for the recent dry spell in playoff appearances, that can be attributed to things like — 1) a shrinking payroll that caused us to have to turn loose lots of talent during the last 10 years 2.) The injury bug catching up with us (during the playoff run the Braves were very lucky at avoiding injuries 3.) Our luck just plain evening out. The 14 year division champ run was an anomaly…..things like that just don’t happen very often in pro sports.
I do agree with you however that the Tex trade was an awful trade. I thought it was when they did it and I still think that. Gotta take the good with the bad though. That Jurrjens trade looks pretty dang good, don’t it?
Something needs to change soon. Our offense is sub-par if that. As far as 2B is concerned, anybody good in Gwinnett? I also think the Braves playing for a home crowd with a half empty stadium. Where are the fans in the seats? There is no buzz about them at all. Agreed??
When 6 of the 8 position players in your Opening Day lineup are out of your farm system, arguing that the team doesn’t develop players and the farm system talent has dried up doesn’t really hold much water. Not to mention the slew of prospects on the horizon who will be competing for major league jobs in the near future.
You put up stupid story after stupid story. Do you know all of the talent that is about to come up through the braves system? You have no CLUE!!! Please do us a favor and RETIRE!!!
Hey, maybe I’m old too, because (1) Bisher is right (2) the sort of insulting comments made here come from people who wouldn’t be qualified to hold Bisher’s hat.
What’s the deal with being rude? And, if what I’ve experienced in life offers any clue, the people who insult others while anonymous on the Net are usually timid little people who spend the day in real life getting kicked around. So, safe at their keyboards, they take cheap shots. If you said any of that to Bisher’s face – even at his age – he’d throw you out the window and on into the trees.
Disagree all you like with Bisher but, lord a mercy, try to do it in a civil way. Surely your mamas taught you better than this.
I have not read much of your stuff in the past, but I have to ask that you stick to talking about things you know about. The Atlanta Braves farm system is one of the elite systems in baseball. We’re easily top 5, and some would argue us as even having the second best farm system in the game. And that’s before you even realize all the talent we’ve traded away the last couple years. Add the guys we swapped in the Teixiera deal (Feliz, Harrison, Andrus) and we’re easily number one. And another solid prospect in catcher Tyler Flowers, who I really feel will become one of the elite DHs in the game when Thome retires.
Some things about our farm system you should know:
A rival team’s scout said he would trade any player on their major league roster for Jason Heyward. Think about that statement for a second.
Tommy Hanson has had multiple people compare him to Roy Halladay. Halladay is one of the best, if not the best pitchers in the game.
Kris Medlen’s adjustment period to being promoted to AAA this year was him retiring the first 20 batters he faced in order, and facing the minimum through 26.
We have two top 100 prospects who are the youngest and second youngest players at their level, and are more than holding their own in Freddie Freeman and Jason Heyward.
Jeff Locke just took a no-no bid into the 7th inning for his second straight start.
Zeke Spruill a kid who was going to Prom this time last year, is pitching in full season ball, and has a 20-1 K-BB ratio. That’s insane. And he wasn’t even our first pick.
I could continue, but it’s not even worth it, because you obviously aren’t paying any attention at all.
How can you be a Kelly Johnson fan???? Do you have an affinity for players who hit sub .100 for a month, then suprisingly become sizzling hot and hit .400 for a stretch only to leave you with a a TERRIBLY INCONSISTENT .250 hitting OUTFIELDER playing 2nd base???
I sure hope there were some breakdowns when it came to scouting of the five players we sent for Teixeira, but if there wern’t John Schurholtz should be fired immediately since we obviously had no intention of keeping Tex any longer than we did… ITS TIME FOR AN OVERHAUL
Furman, in this economy, I’d slash your job first. This is the worst article I have read on this website in awhile.
1. Our farm system is washed up? … quite the opposite… we have a top 3 farm system in Major League Baseball. Just because they aren’t playing 30 minutes away in Gwinnett, I guess you just don’t look past AAA. Read up on Freeman, Heyward, Hanson, Gorkys Hernendez (all top 100 prospects) and Julio Teheran, Jeff Locke, Cole Rohrbaugh, Kris Medlen, Cody Johnson, and Brandon Hicks… and we have the 7th pick in the draft.
2. You are mad the Braves traded Josh Anderson and his “experience” to Detroit? He hasnt had more than 150 ABs in a season and has played 45 games in CF in 3 seasons… Schafer hit .324 in Spring Training with 5 SBs and is the future… Josh Anderson was traded to us for Oscar Villareal… Schafer is a 5 tool player… Anderson is not.
3.You are obviously clueless when it comes to talking about how “poor” our starting pitching is… since our starters are 4th in the NL in ERA.
4. You are going to judge Marquis on the fact he is making $9.8M this season? Try looking at his statistics… he is garbage. A career 4.54 ERA ans was awful for us when we traded him.
Prospects come and go. having 2 prospects in the top 100 is no big deal. every ML team should have at least two. Trading Wainwright, Marquis, Andrus and Neftali Feliz can only be viewed as a mistake since the trades were supposed to bring another WS championship to Atlanta. Finally, Kelly Johnson (from the great farm system) is not a ML 2nd baseman. he butchers the position on a regular basis. and what the heck has Jo-Jo Reyes done?
What are you thinking Furman? The Braves farmsystem is among the best in baseball? Were you bored and just wanted to write about something that is completely false? If that is the case just write a novel.
On Kelly, he’s about average for his position defensively, and he’s one of the better offensive second basemen in the game. I’ve found Kelly is a good barometer for figuring out if the person you’re talking to has a clue about baseball. Those who think he’s a good ballplayer normally know what they’re talking about, and those who think he stinks normally don’t. He butchers an easy play now and then it makes his defense look worse than it is, but we makes a lot of tough plays, and gets to a lot of balls that other second basemen don’t get to, and that makes up for it. It’s not like he’s played there his whole life, so the easy mistakes should be expected, and he’s only going to continue to improve as a defender. Offensively, BP projected that he’d be the second best 2B in baseball this year, and I still think that’s very feasible. He’s had some rough luck early on, and everyone’s trying to hang him out to dry.
This is the second article you have written on this topic, and you are grossly false. Baseball Prospectus, a rather distinguished magazine, maybe you have heard of it, ranks the Braves farm system as 5th BEST IN THE MAJORS! Mr. Fischer, your time has come to put down the pen. You are out of touch.
Huh??? Was about to ask what the the heck this guy was thinking, then realized it was the 100 year old senile guy that the paper keeps around for Equal Opportunity Employment, so I’ll just move on and read something by someone not out of his gourd.
What the hell is wrong with this guy. Jason Heyward and Tommy Hanson are top 5 prospects in all of baseball. We have Freddie Freeman, Gorkys Hernandez, Kris Medlen, Jeff Locke, Cole Rohborgh. Does this guy even look at Baseball America. DOB set him straight
You’d think that when writing about 1 article a week you’d have time to do a little research. How can you say the farm has “dried up”? Are you completely ignoring the potential future stars in Heyward, Freeman, Morton, Rohrbough, Locke, Teheran, among others?
And what’s wrong with Wren going outside the organization for help? Look at the people who were big contributors in the 14 straight division titles: Pendleton (yes, the same inept batting coach we have now), Maddux, Smoltz, McGriff, Sheffield, and Hudson, just to name a few.
I can’t believe something like this was even posted.
Very disappointing article Furman. I cannot believe you actually researched this article. I think a retraction is in order. Bringing in some pitching talent from the Dodgers and from Japan does not provide evidence of a decline in the the talent down of the farm. I’m really looking forward to the next five years of Braves baseball with at ton of home grown talent leading the way.
If the Braves are so committed to free agents, why the heck can’t they seem to re-sign them when the time comes? Sorry, Bisher, your theory doesn’t wash.
Mr. Bisher…don’t feel too bad at all the dumb rednecks trashing you…by their rudeness we know they are from this era of selfish ignorant smucks. The only class they know anything about was the GED class they skipped so they could procreate with the girl from the piggly wiggly beside her double wide….
I don’t agree that the farm system is broken, but something is seriously wrong. The Braves are not hitting, and their relief pitching is horrible. I have followed Josh Anderson for a couple of years, and I think that it was a big mistake trading him. Schafer is likely to become a great player, but for now, I would take Anderson. I think that .500 is about the best we can hope for this year.
Half the Braves’ starting eight – Schafer, Kochman. Johnson & whoever is playing in left, might be reserves on a good team. The bullpen SUCKS ! The starting staff came from other organizations. Furman Bisher is CORRECT !
Yes, sign the old washed up players like Glavin and Ross. Smoltz, to their credit, when North, and didn’t re-sign him. Next gone should be the bily goat you have that
plays third. Hurt or gripping. Dump chippie now. that
The Braves’ farm system might be getting better but it sure as hell doesn’t reflect the current major league roster; what a bunch of mediocre players ! Better pray Frank Wren doesn’t loot the farm to get some washed up slugger for firstbase or left.
I don’t agree with Furman’s column. But while I might have made a post about my views on that, the more important factor is the sheer venal rudeness of so many posters here. Many of you simply have no shame.
If Furman Bisher were to retire, it would be solely due to his lamentation of the erosion of human virtue in society. I cannot believe so many people would be so personally obnoxious to an iconic sports columnist.
Invest 4 more years in the oft-injured, arrogant and self-centered Chipper Jones? His butt
should be offered to a contender in the American League for a parcel of prospects !
if the farm is so strong why are they still on the farm.hop
How much do you know about baseball? Prospects not named Albert Pujols tend to need 3-4 years of seasoning in the minors before they’re anywhere near ready to face major league pitchers and hitters.
And for everyone defending Furman Bisher – just because he’s been here forever doesn’t mean you have to agree with him on everything. My goodness…you guys defend him and kiss his butt so much you’d think he just cured lupus.
we have one of the best farm systems in baseball, the envy of mlb. Wren wanted to keep a competetive team on the field now, and w/ some youth coming soon, we’re not gonna fade away any time soon. article is way off base in my humble opinion. all do respect to Furman, just don’t get it. We signed free agents and our pitching staff is one of the best, Garrett anderson has let us down thus far and we need b-mac bad. settle down Braves fans(so called), It’s gonna be a great year just wait.
I read this and sort of thought the writer was, perhaps, behind the times a bit. I am not sure I agree with much of it, if any. I just simply don’t have the time to hammer away at an opinion that seems convenient, but doesn’t actually jive with reality.
The Braves have one of the best farm systems in baseball. Chipper, Escobar, Kelly Johnson, Jordan Shafer, Brandon Jones, Jeff Francouer, and Brian McCann. That’s pretty much the every day lineup until Anderson comes back and they are all home grown. Jurrjens was a minor leaguer when he was acquired and Jo Jo Reyes was in our system as was Tom Glavine. We have Tommy Hanson, Jason Heyward, and Freddie Freeman coming along that are going to be good major leaguers by all accounts. The farm is stocked in the lower ends as well.
They are what three games out of first right now you idiot. And the reason they are still on the farm? Have you ever heard of Mark Prior? Google him jackass. You rush pitchers they are out of baseball in two years. Same with position players. You better give them enough at bats in the minors or they are going to be in for a rude awakening.
Seriously some people just need to stick to football because they have no idea how baseball works.
Google Mark Prior and see what happens when you rush pitchers to the big leagues idiot. Same with hitters you don’t give them enough at bats in the minors they will get destroyed in the big leagues.
Stick with football because baseball is just too complicated for your simple mind.
Yeah that’s a good idea we should get rid of our best player and one of the best switch hitters in the history of the sport. He’s also the best hitter in franchise history. Has a higher OPS than Hank Aaron, of course you probably have no idea what the hell OPS is.
Mr.Bisher, I respect your opinion but this article isn’t even close to being accurate.
The farm system has been productive. It’s just that players and pitchers such as Adam Wainwright, Kyle Davies, Jason Marquis, Kevin Millwood, Jason Schmidt, Mark DeRosa, Jermaine Dye and many others are spread all over the major leagues.
In fact, there are more than 35 active players in the big leagues and minors who were drafted by our Braves. It’s just that they are playing elsewhere.
For whatever reason, these athletes have been traded for players who were able to help keep the division streak alive. Up until 2005, it was worth the trade off.
John Schuerholz has made some great trades and some stinkers. John Smoltz (Cox was the GM) and Fred McGriff come to mind as two of the great trades and Greg Maddux is in my opinion, the greatest free agent acquisition of all time. The bad deals: Teixeira, Wainwright / Marquis top the list.
But with corporate ownership who’s bottom line is either red or black and a limited payroll, our front office has struggled to adjust to the new structure. I can understand the criticism when looking at our current rotation but you must understand, Frank Wren had money to spend and he stuck to his guns in acquiring starting pitching. Some of it will turn out great. Others, not so much.
But my criticism toward you Mr.Bisher is this. How could the Teixeira trade have actually been possible in the first place if our farm system was not productive enough to HAVE THE TALENT to trade in the first place?
I agree somewhat with his comments,the biggest problem is the coaching staff, they just seem to be too easy going,no take charge or leadership to get over the hump, Bobby’s time has come and gone, time for some new blood to bring energy to the field, we use to be able to just reach down and pull up a player and never miss a beat, but those day’s are over, there are a few that will one day grace the major’s, but most of the names you keep listing are all prospects, that’s the key word, i have seen most of the players on the list over the past several years and other than Hanson,Medlin and Morton, no others are as close to being ready in the next 2-3 years,check their progress for yourself, i think it will be lean a few more years unless they open the payroll to supplement the home grown talent.
A baseless and pathetic article. Six of the eight Braves’ regulars are homegrown (C Brian McCann, 3B Chipper Jones, SS Yunel Escobar, 2B Kelly Johnson, CF Jordan Schafer, and RF Jeff Francoeur), they’re the only organization with two of the top 10 prospects in all of baseball in Jason Heyward and Tommy Hanson, and they have been universally ranked as one of the top five farm systems in baseball. If you don’t want to research your articles anymore at least be upfront about it.
Boy, I really hope the farm system is in as great a shape as most of you think…I’m not as convinced. Sure we have some prospects, but that is exactly what they are…not stars. Some may pan out, others won’t. AND, the point of the article was that unless something changes, they will pan out on some other team.
At the time of the Tex trade, most of you were beside yourself with joy. A GT man, a hometown hero, blah, blah, blah. That had to be the stupidest trade in the history of the franchise.
I disagree with Furman frequently also. However, I think his point about trades rather than holding onto prospects is valid and hopefully will change. I also agree with BillH and Ken S that the attacks on the author are shameful. State your opinion and disagreement, but stop the personal attacks.
Comments that are negative about Chipper really show your ignorance. He is a superstar who wanted to play out his career on a team where he is given NO protection in the order. When has he seen a decent pitch?
Didn’t he write an article like this already. Well the second time around is still totally wrong. How long until the third one? What a waste of an article.
I really hope this doesn’t go in the Sunday paper.
I love how you make Jason Marquis out to be a great pitcher who’s a huge loss for the Braves. He’s a middle to back of the rotation starter at best.
And you make it sound like a sin that Frank Wren went outside the organization for help. Don’t you think that Pendleton, Smoltz (contrary to what you said, he wasn’t developed by the Braves), Maddux, Sheffield, and Hudson made significant contributions to division titles?
A good portion of our roster now has some above average home-grown talent in Chipper, McCann, Francoeur, and Escobar. And what about the loaded farm teams? Heyward, Hanson, Freeman, Rohrbough, Locke, etc etc etc.
It looks like most of the people who responded here just read the headline, but weren’t able to actually read the article. I’d also bet a large percentage of the people trashing Mr. Bisher are too young to really remember the Braves of the 90’s when winning was the only measuring stick. The Braves used to produce players who came to the majors and helped win division championships every year. That’s not the case anymore. Many of the best prospects were traded away for short term players who didn’t really make much of a difference. The rest are still just prospects. Maybe the current group of prospects are highly rated, but until they produce in the major leagues (hopefully for the Braves), they’re still just prospects.
I really like the current home grown Braves – McCann, Escobar, Johnson, Schafer, Francoeur, etc., and I hope they all have long successful careers with the Braves. However, they aren’t winning enough to compete for the division championship. The fact that a team has a bunch of home grown players on their roster doesn’t mean the team is doing a good job managing their farm system. Most of the worst teams in baseball have plenty of home grown players filling spots on the major roster because they can’t find, or can’t afford, anyone better.
Hopefully, the current home grown Braves will continue to improve and live up to their potential, and the last few unsuccessful years will be quickly forgotten; but the fact is, right now Mr. Bisher is 100% correct. The Braves aren’t getting as much out of the farm system as they did during their run of division championships.
You people are sick. If you don’t want to read Mr. Bisher’s articles, then don’t. If you do and don’t like them, then it’s YOUR fault, not his.
And I love the people that want to throw out people like Chipper, McCann, Francoeur, and Escobar. That’s the point! These people are already on the team, and they aren’t playing well enough to win games. Maybe if all of these anonymous posters were to stop bashing the writer, they would understand that, no matter what Baseball Prospectus or any other publication says, those players aren’t helping the Braves NOW. Maybe some of the players that were traded COULD be helping us now.
But no, you would rather hurl insults at someone who knows more about sports than you could ever hope to.
To Billy: The point is he simply doesn’t. Any objective baseball fan, analyst, scout, or stat-head can look at the Braves farm system and see the tremendous value that it has. Anyone calling the Braves farm system “dried up” simply doesn’t know what they are talking about. Not when the Braves are having the kinds of drafts they’re having. The Braves didn’t even have a first round pick last year, and they put together a fantastic draft class, anyone who sees the talent being inserted from the bottom will recognize how vibrant this system is. Take a peak at Rome’s pitching staff. The value is in the numbers. Not all of Spruill, Sullivan, Hoover, DeVall, Stovall, Delgado, Teheran, Clemens, Francis, and Thompson will make an impact at the major league level, but the fact that we have 10 young starting arms with as much potential as that group has just entering full season ball speaks volumes about our ability to find and sign young talent. Also consider that after Wieters, and Price graduate to the majors it’s very likely that Jason Heyward will be the consensus number one prospect in the game. We’re loaded.
I agree with Bisher about some of the trades. But I think it speaks volumes when about how good a team’s scouting and development is when they can make a trade like the Teixiera trade and come out the following season with one of the best systems in the game. Trades like that can be franchise-crippling, but our system is so loaded we traded what wound up being 3 blue chip prospects and still wound up having a great system. It just seems to me, if that’s what he wanted to whine about, he should have headlined it more accordingly. The fact that we didn’t sell the farm or even a portion of it for Jake Peavy seems to show that the FO learned their lesson, and stuck to their guns instead of caving to grab a star. Long story short this franchise has better days ahead.
It’s comical to think that this man even has a job writing about something he obviously has no understanding of. I’ve been watching the Braves farm teams with intense interest for the last 13 years and I’ve can honestly say I’ve never felt better about our farm system. This man should do everyone a favor and put away his typewriter.
“Tom youre a f***ing idiot” is all you have to say in response? I think that one says more about you than anyone else. If you were a little smarter, you could try to write something about the Braves, but no, “Tom youre a f***ing idiot” was all you could come up with. Why not go back to your crayons and maybe one day you can use the computer like a big boy.
By the way, it may be “Tom youre a f***ing idiot” in the Clayton County School System, but everywhere else it’s, “DGdDawg, you’re an f***ing idiot.”
Tom – Players like TP, Sid Bream, Liebrandt, Nixon, Deion, Mullhollanf,Ortiz, Charlie O’Brien, Berryhill,Gallarag, Maddux are those players the farm produced every year? Read the Book Scout’s Honor, a book about Braves way of building a team and get back to us.
You develop talent for TWO REASONS to play for you or to TRADE for players you need.
I am suprised Furman woke from a nap long enough to write this.
Furman didn’t you write this same article 6 months ago? John Smoltz is NOT a product of the Braves farm system. He was acquired in a trade as a minor leaguer. Why would you use Jason Marquis as a measuring stick for former Braves players? He has been average with and with out the Braves. He makes 9.8 million dollars? Who cares? Money doesn’t make you a great player. The major leagues are filled with million dollar players who are average at best. Adam Wainwright? That’s one ex-Brave that’s had some success. There’s a long list of supposed blue chip ex braves that never did a thing once they arrived in the major leagues. The “5 golden talents” that were traded to Texas for Texiera? Who are they? Any MVPs, Cy youngs or allstars in that group? Maybe Wainwright has been successful because he has better talent around in St. Louis then he had when he was a Brave. Who knows. The 90s are over and the Braves run is over. It looks like the young talent that was around in the spring could be good. Who knows. Furman you wrote that the Drew and Wainwright/Marquis trade will haunt the Braves for years to come, have you looked at all the talent that the New York Yankees have traded away, etc. And the Yankees have won more championships then the Braves. Every team has traded away “talent”, so stop crying about it. Just because you draft or sign a player into your farm system, doesn’t make them better if and when they reach the major leagues. It’s a crap shoot.
Tom says, ” I’d also bet a large percentage of the people trashing Mr. Bisher are too young to really remember the Braves of the 90’s when winning was the only measuring stick. The Braves used to produce players who came to the majors and helped win division championships every year. That’s not the case anymore. Many of the best prospects were traded away for short term players who didn’t really make much of a difference. ”
The Braves ufarm system used to produce players in the 90’s who won champioships? You mean guys like Smoltz, McGriff, Pendleton, Lonnie Smith, Maddux, Alejandro Pena, Leibrandt, Galleraga, Grissom, Bream, Sheffield, Neagle, Belliard, Jason Schmidt…
For those that think Furman is old and doesn’t know what he is talking about just go to a G-Braves game. There is nothing there except Hanson. 5 or 6 prospects in the entire farm system does not make a great system. Furman is exactly right, we gave too much for 1 year wonders, Drew, Tex and I believe we gave away our top catching prospect this year (Flowers). Check out Baseball America’s top 100 prospects. Atl has about 4or 5 and only 1 of those is above A ball.
czc Hello, i found a very good site with videos funny , sexy girls funny, wrecked cars, live accidents, entertainment , TV shows and other… Try it: http://www.autostrada80.com
Teams can develop players down on the farm and groom them through the arbitration period. The deep pockets of some owners changed the game
concerning keeping players from the farm. With a limited payroll, trading becomes the option to acquire talent. Trading seems similar to going to the used car lot,you can get some real clunkers. Spending 7 million for an unproven oriental pitcher with no fast ball will prove to be a mistake. Also, I see a trend of not putting the best team on the field, but playing based on what a player is being paid producing or not. No power, no stealing, no moving runners is diappointing, seems the Braves just stand around for 9 innnings to see what will happen wiht no thought of making something happen.
Classiness, a thing of the past? Furman Bisher has it and the majority if the a$$70!es on here think it is a place to go to sleep before they dropped out of school…
Blank – if you’re going to cite Baseball America, then you have to consider that they ranked Atlanta’s farm team 6th out of 30. As for the players at A ball, Freman, Heyward, Rohrbough, and Locke will be in AA Mississippi very soon, with a shot at being on the team in 2019.
Some of you guys will defend Furman Bisher to the death. It’s okay to disagree, people…you don’t always have to have your nose up his butt.
Mr. Bisher could write an article petitioning MLB to make players moonwalk to first base when they get a BB, and you’d be like “Great article, Mr. Bisher! It shows that you’re trying to keep baseball contemporary. Ignore everyone saying that it’s a stupid idea. They don’t know what they’re talking about.”
I’m with Furman. The Wainwright deal was narrow-sighted. Giving up a very promising pitcher for “Just the Dough” Drew does still irk and hurt. Plain dumb.
Dumber still was the swap that brought Super Tex to the Bravos. As mentioned, the Braves surrender five bona fide talents for the laughable idea that a 1B was going to help them cinch a post season berth. Laughable because it was the pitching that needed bucking up in ‘07.
Perez is a legit talent with a lot of up side. Salty, despite what the team said could have been converted to 1B. Elvis is a solid defensive SS; Escobar could have been positioned to take over 3B from the oft-injured Chipper. Advantage, Rangers.
I think the front office in the waning days of JS as GM thought it had a magic touch after a 14 season run as division champs. In other words, they could do no wrong.
But management got away from two rules that made that run possible: 1) build from the farm up; 2) build with pitching.
Why get excited over a farm system with “promise” when Frank Wren will deal those prospects away for some washed up slugger or player in his free agent year? If we had not traded for Texeira we would be reaping the rewards of our farm and positioned for another long run. This team is mediocre at best !
Bank Wlaker: re Schmidt – you’re correct my mistake. So, Ok that’s 1 out of 14 I listed, and I could have listed 10-12 more easily.
As to the lack of talent at Gwinnett: [A] you’re wrong — they probably have the best starting pitching in AAA, especially if Reyes goes back. Ever heard of Kris Medlen or Charlie Morton? [b} the top prospects usually spend little tiem in AAA these days. Many jump straight from AA, especially non-pitchers.
The problem is not the farm system, it is the people in the front office who are giving the farm system away for rental players. When we traded for Tex, we were not going to win it all and everyone knew Tex was a one year rental because he was NOT going to give a hometown discount. But Tex was just one of a line of really bad trades for rental players that everyone knew we would not keep.
The Sheffield trade was for a rental.
The JD Drew trade was for a rental.
The Kyle Davies trade was for a rental.
The Renteria trade was for a rental (that being Renteria from Boston for Andy Marte).
The Vaazquez trade is just a rental and will show to be a tremendous loss for the Braves.
Bottom line is we have tremendous talent in the minors and not such great talent in the front office.
Mr. Bisher, do you even follow the Braves. The Braves have two of the top 10 prospects in baseball. They say Tommy Hanson could be the next Jake Peavy, and they say Jayson Heyward is Darril Strawberry without the baggage. That’s talent. Look at Jordan Schafer. He has shown great speed,a great arm, occasional power, a good eye. Not only that, they have Kris Medlen, Jeffrey Locke(who by the way has two no hit bids in a row). Cody Johnson, the next Ryan Howard and Adam Dunn, already has 9 homers in 23 games. Not to mention Freddy Freeman the top offensive performer in the Braves’ Minor League system.
So please Bisher stop it, do you’re homework. The only reason they signed Derek Lowe and Kawakami and traded for Javier Vazquez, is because Tommy Hanson doesn’t have any big league experience, and the Braves need to take it slow make sure they don’t rush they’re players.
ANDERSON out, SCHAFER in. I don’t think either ready or capable of sustaining the lead-off spot at this point. In time, I believe both capable of doing so. Tweedle-dum, tweedle-dee as far as I am concerned. Although, I think ANDERSON is one years’ experience closer than SCHAFER to achieving that goal. But I believe SCHAFER will be the bigger talent.
I fear that what you see is what you get where KELLY JOHNSON is concerned. I have come to the opposite conclusion of the venerable MR. BISHER in his regard. Although I wish to see him in the line-up. I would prefer him in the 7th or 8th slots. He has now had extensive experience at the top of the batting order, and does not appear comfortable there. He does appear more at ease lower down in the order however. I certainly would be interested in seeing some historical figures on his batting results in the 1-2 slots vs. the 7-8 slots. Aloha from the road.
And I didn’t mention Jair Jurrjens, who is a very talented pitcher at the age of 23.
Yes the Adam Wainwright trade was stupid, but trading Andy Marte for Edgar Renteria was great(Andy Marte is currently without a team), and then trading Renteria for Jurrjens and Gorkys was brilliant.
The Braves gave away talent to the Rangers, but Andrus was not going to play in Atlanta with Escobar as SS. Salty was not going to beat out McCann. Harrison was not pitching well when he was traded. The pitcher, Neifi Perez, should not have been thrown into that deal. That was the only mistake in that trade. Wainright for Drew was a good deal at the time. The Braves had good pitching then and Wainright was a couple of years away from being a ML starter. The Braves did not even see him as a starter in the ML at the time. The Braves ML system is loaded right now with talent, Mr. Bisher, and the Braves refused to trade much of it this past winter, especially Hanson, Medlen, Heyward, and Freeman. So the future is bright with what is down on the farm and I pray the Braves do not panic and trade any of it. Build for the future…don’t trade for the present, please.
Another awful article by FB. Seriously why does this guy still have a job.
If the Braves system has dried up then at least 80% of the rest the league (of whom we are consistantly ranked higher than in terms of farm strengthy) have gone completely and utterly barren.
The whole premise of this pile of word-vomit is insulting to my intelligence, not to mention the racist undertones.
What a crap blog! You guys must be total idiots! When Mr. Bisher says that the Farm system has dried up and all of you argue that the Braves lineup is full of Braves Farm system players, take a look people, the Braves are a .500 team at best and have been for the last several seasons! The guys playing now might all be from the system but look how they are playing! If you eat dirt from your front yard, its still dirt!
You are right, Mr. Bisher has FORGOTTEN. He has a valid point about the Texeira fiasco, but otherwise he has no clue. According to almost the rest of the baseball world, the Braves have some of the best prospects in the game and one of the best farm systems. To rationalize his point by arguing that the Braves should have kept Josh Anderson (26) rather than Jordan Schafer (22) is assinine. Anyone who thinks Anderson has a better long term future than Schafer needs a reality check. By the way Furman, a lot of people think Schafer can probably steal 20 plus bases–if Cox ever lets him.
Gee, Skip. I can’t agree with Furman’s article. Our farm system has been prosperous. Just check out the rosters of other teams, especially Texas. I predict with a little coaching up by Tony LaRussa and Dave Duncan, and Blaine Boyer will be the “lights out” closer we always knew he could be.
This is the most inane thing I have ever seen posted on this site, and that includes the massive amount of dribble that seems to come out of Terence Moore’s computer.
You clearly don’t know baseball.
You clearly don’t know the Braves.
I could go into the myriad big time free agent contributors to the dynasty, but that has already been done. I could go into the fact that the only real difference between Anderson and Schafer is Schafer’s ability to hit something other than singles, but that’s already been done.
Please if you are going to write something about the composition of a team, try to actually look at the composition of the team. Six of eight starting position players were drafted and developed by the braves. I’d be willing to bet that beats almost any team in baseball.
You’re an idiot and really ought to be fired for posting something this stupid.
I am sorry, but why on earth do they let this nice man write anymore? If he wants to write a column, smile and nod and accept it, and put the hieroglyphics-filled papyrus in a drawer. It’s sad and embarrassing.
“When you hire one Japanese player, you get two Japanese.” “It does give us a variety we haven’t had” – tell me you didn’t cringe a little.
This doesn’t even go into his laughable assessment of the baseball side of things.
Though yes, the Teixiera trades were atrocious – to give up that much for him, and then get essentially only Kotchman in return – ouch.
RF, C, SS, CF – all recent farm products and good to great major league players. Hanson coming up. (I like Kelly too, but maybe just now he’s not the shining example to point to.) What seems like a fairly loaded farm system – Freeman, Heyward, Gorkys, etc.
We fleeced Detroit on the Jurrjens trade, and while not technically a farm-system product, we traded a veteran for a young power arm and then filled the veteran’s position with somebody from the farm system.
I’m just assuming that Mr Bisher isn’t reading our comments, but I’m hoping someone at AJC is. Unless he is the editor’s grandfather, or has some compromising information on someone, or an iron-clad contract requiring you to print whatever dribbles out of his keyboard, please spare us all the embarrassment and stop running his stuff. Just because he was a good writer in the past does not give him license to blather on indefinitely.
Hello, i found a very good site with videos funny , sexy girls funny, wrecked cars, live accidents, entertainment , TV shows and other… Try it: http://www.autostrada80.com
maybe, the old man knows more about the braves than you homers do!
the braves will not be in the race this year and yes the are only three out,that is because no one in the east is playing very well,but that will change.
the braves are no better than fourth in the east.
keep on drinking the nonsense from the braves and you will have a horrible summer.
i can’t wait to hear the excuses made by the mr wrens in july when the braves are out of it!
You suck. BRAVES are better then the past three years, but no better than 86 wins tops right now. Raising the payroll to the 121 million strata will bring in a couple of heavy hitters next year, and put the ATLANTAN’s into first place.
Oh no HOP that can’t be right cause Gwinnett has Charlie Morton & Jo Jo Reyes who Glove thinks are some sort of major league talents. They have to have a winning record….I don’t put this on Wren though, he did not give in on the Peavy talk but it is JS fault. I do agree that the Braves have had one of the top minor league systems but at this time we have traded away too many prospects for it to be considered top 10. There are no future everyday players in Gwinnett. And only one starter and 1 possible reliever.
To Walker, Texas Idiot: Reyes is pitching in the najors right now. He will almost certainly be a better pitcher than Bisher’s beloved Jason Marquis. How about you go back and check Tom Glavine’s records his first couple of years and let me know if he struggled a bit while learning to pitch at the major league level or check out Greg Maddux’s early Cub numbers.
Most (or ALL of) everyone who is in the business of evaluting farm systems places the Braves in the top 10.
Most people who evaluate ML talent believe Morton to be a 3-5 slot ML pitcher. If he was a polished ML starter TODAY he would be in Atlanta or would have been traded. His has K’d 30 in 26 innings, but does have 4.15 ERA.
Hanson and Medlen are no-brainers, so probably even you understand their high ceiling major league ptotential.
Even Parr and Redmond are considered fringe ML starters.
Again, the BEST prospects at everyday positions spend little or no time at AAA, unless they are completely blocked at the major league level. Is tht too difficult for you to udnerstand? That said, Brandon Jones and Blanco have teh ptoentila to be everyday major leaguers in the right situation.
We overpaid for Tex, no two ways about it, but Neftali Perez is really the only player we lost that we are likely to lament losing in the long run.
I do not believe the Braves Farm System has “dried up” – especially in terms of position players. However, I’m very concerned with the lack of effective pitchers we are developing.
I have a very good understanding of “Top Prospects” – but those need to translate into “Wins” at the Major League level.
Pitching has been the backbone of this organization for almost 20 years – but I’d like to see us start getting our “Prospects” on the mound.
While I’m not pointing a finger at McDowell – I do believe that Leo’s philosphy of development cannot be disputed – in terms of results.
The job of a pitching coach is more than just teaching mechanics and certain pitches. Pitchers must have a direction (if you will)…it’s more than just executing pitches. I could write a week on this so – I’ll just say….I’m concerned that we are no longer developing effective Major League pitchers.
As Hillbilly Deluxe said, they are going through a rebuilding stage and have been since those guys up in Colorado took over.
But even with all the talent they had since 1991, they only have one ring? I was watching MLB network the other day and they ran that 1996 series with the Yankees and to this day i wonder what happened after being up 2-0 and losing that series. Then in the 99 series, they had the 2 best pitchers go back to back, but left Cox left them in the game too long and they eventually got swept.
We all know that Liberty Media doesnt care and the front office is clueless since JS left. Now add those two facts with that one common denominator of all those past post-season failures…Bobby Cox.
2005 NL Division Series Houston Astros Lost, 1-3
2004 NL Division Series Houston Astros Lost, 2-3
2003 NL Division Series Chicago Cubs Lost, 2-3
2002 NL Division Series San Francisco Giants Lost, 2-3
2001 NL Championship Series Arizona Diamondbacks Lost, 1-4
NL Division Series Houston Astros Won, 3-0
2000 NL Division Series St. Louis Cardinals Lost, 0-3
1999 World Series New York Yankees Lost, 0-4
NL Championship Series New York Mets Won, 4-2
NL Division Series Houston Astros Won, 3-1
1998 NL Championship Series San Diego Padres Lost, 2-4
NL Division Series Chicago Cubs Won, 3-0
1997 NL Championship Series Florida Marlins Lost, 2-4
NL Division Series Houston Astros Won, 3-0
1996 World Series New York Yankees Lost, 2-4
NL Championship Series St. Louis Cardinals Won, 4-3
NL Divison Series Los Angeles Dodgers Won, 3-0
1995 World Series Cleveland Indians Won, 4-2
NL Championship Series Cincinnati Reds Won, 4-0
NL Division Series Colorado Rockies Won, 3-1
1993 NL Championship Series Philadelphia Phillies Lost, 2-4
1992 World Series Toronto Blue Jays Lost, 2-4
NL Championship Series Pittsburgh Pirates Won, 4-3
1991 World Series Minnesota Twins Lost, 3-4
NL Championship Series Pittsburgh Pirates Won, 4-3
1982 NL Championship Series St. Louis Cardinals Lost, 0-3
But let Cox tell it all, like he did about the pitching yesterday…everythings fine.
With the talent (we) the Braves have had for the past ten to twelve yrs. We should have more than one World Series banner to hang up. You know, I know BC is a players coach and they like him so the media says…but, with Smoltz, Glavine, Avery, Maddux, heck, I couldve coached that team. I really lost alot of faith w/ BC when he sent Charlie L. in to pitch to Kirby P. in the W.Series, If I knew Charlie’s best pitch was the circle change, I KNOW KIRBY PUCKETT DID AND HE SURE DID OVER THE CENTER FIELD FENCE! GO FIGURE…..DANG IT BRAVES, GET SOME INTENSITY!!, WHERE IS THE SWAGGER? GET WITH IT FELLAS, AT LEAST PLAY ABC BASEBALL…….HECK YALL ARE KILLING US FANS WITH MEDIOCRE BASEBALL! TT44
I really hate to say this but I really do think that Bobby is managing as though he was still in the middle of last year when all we could do was complain about injuries to the starting pitching.
I also think that he needs to be doing a lot more coaching instead of being Mr. Nice Guy, their are times that professional atheletes need a good kick in the butt, maybe its now.
Perhaps your writing skills have “dried up”. Assuming you ever had any.
Smoltz wasn’t our farm product you old senile coot. Do some frickin research before you type. Hell, most of the bloggers on here do more research than you do… and you get PAID for it. Talk about wasted money.
Let me fire off a few names that had a whole helluva lot to do with the Braves winning in the 90’s:
Sid Bream, Terry Pendleton, Rafael Belliard, Alejandro Pena, Greg Maddux, Fred McGriff, Marquis Grissom, Mike Devereux, Luis Polonia, Denny Neagle, Andres Galarraga, Walt Weiss, Russ Ortiz, Paul Byrd, Mike Hampton (yes – he once helped), Gary Sheffield, Brian Jordan, Kenny Lofton, Michael Tucker, Keith Lockhart, Vinny Castilla (the 2nd time around), Johnny Estrada, JD Drew.
Would you like me to keep going?
Man alive are you worthless. Next thing you know, your “partner” in crime Terrance Moore will write an article claiming the Braves farm system is racist.
You two need to find new jobs, because you aren’t very good at the one you do. DOB blows you guys away. You guys should ask him for some help.
“The Braves must have a great farm system. I guess that is the reason they lost 90 games last year and their best pitcher came over from the Tigers.”
The problem with a great farm system, in theory, is that you won’t know you had a great farm system until you are already winning.
You use the 90 losses last year as proof that the farm system stinks?
In 1988 they lost 106 games, followed by 97 losses in 1989 and another 97 losses in 1990.
I think the farm system that they were using in the late 80’s seemed to do “OK” for them, in the 90’s, huh?
NOW, if you want to start talking about Bobby and the coaching staff getting the most out of these “top prospects”, that’s a conversation for another day. But according to all the pundits and experts (Sorry Furman, you’re NOT in that group), the Braves farm system is stacked and would be more stacked, had JS not went after Tex.
I would be more inclined to say our GM “magic” along with what magic Bobby once had, has dried up, not our scouting and farm system.
Yeah, unfortunately it’s been 8 years since they won a postseason series.
They aren’t entertaining enough to draw anymore. They can call up Hanson all they want but until they find a new outfield capable of bringing some sort of respectable presense at the plate day in and day out…wait make that outfield AND infield…. we are pretty much going to be mediocre.
If the Tex deal did anything it exposed how thin our position players in the farm system were and it showed just how great a hitter and ballplayer Chipper Jones really is when someone (ANYONE even good players who don’t really play until after the AS Break) are lined up behind him to force teams to pitch to him.
I think they just had a bad waive of luck with some of the guys though. Francouer is turning it around. Schaffer is essentially triple A talent at this point. Left Field is waiting for Heyward to take it. First Base SHOULD be Freddie Freeman’s as early as next year…
The braves… DESPERATELY need some guys to pan out and not be the next Kelly Johnson.
The Braves have “given away the farm” the last seveal years. They may be re-stocking now, but over the years they have foolishly let some really good players go. The giveaways for Texiera were terrible. The Braves were never going to keep Tex, his agent was Boros. A future catcher & SS are given away. Incredible talent (both “home grown” & “traded for”) has been allowed to leave over the last several years – talent that is still playing, and could have kept the Braves leading the division if retained. Furcal & Betemit to the Dodgers, for players that did not even make the team. Jermaine Dye, Jason Schmidt, JD Drew, Gary Sheffield, Adam LaRoche, Andruw Jones ( yes Andruw – he just needed a hitting coach)Jason Marquis, Kevin MIllwood, Paul Byrd, etc. The list of bone headed trades is enormous. I’ve heard so much about how smart the GM was – maybe he was just lucky when he got Smoltz, Maddux, & Glavine. He wasn’t able to keep them – he allowed them all to leave. So much for loyalty, which by the way is a two war street. I do think the Braves are developing players, but the only impact player I think they have in minors is Heyward. Great kid – will be a real asset to the team and city. A Ryan Howard type of impact player. We better enjoy him – he’ll be a Yankee, Met, or Dodger in no time. No way the Braves get agressive and sign him to a long term deal.
Bottom line is this. The Braves were too good for too long. Drafting is the issue. When you draft in the upper 20s every year, you’re not going to get MLB talent. How did the Braves stock up on names like Smoltz, Glavine and Justice? It’s simple: they sucked during the ’80s. It may be another decade (a new owner, a new GM, a new Manager, new coaches) before the Braves get back to the playoffs. Time to pull up a chair and wait ladies and gentlemen. Marlins know how to build teams (win a World Title once every decade with a completely new team from the farm). Phillies have a terrific team offensively and play in the best homer park in baseball. The Mets will find ways to buy a playoff spot. Perhaps one day the Nationals…..nah.
The problem is Shuerholz did not know when to shift gears he thought we were one or two players away and was proved wrong. At first the Braves were a team that spent a fair amount to get players they wanted and players wanted to come here and even stay. Then as our winning started to falter, we were put on a budget, and the rent a player for one or two years never wanted to stay. The last few trades did not work out we should have started the rebuilding earlier and we might have been further along than we are by now. Hopefully if these players in the minors leagues do reach potential in one or two years we may start to contend again then. I think the new GM Frank Wren is facing reality he got us some affordable pitching which is not the problem it is run production as injuries have exposed our thin depth of position players. We have to weather the storm and know who we are we are a pretender waiting for our young position players to reach the majors. The last few years depth has been our undoing when injuries hit we have no answer.
Sad to see a once fine writer mail something in like this. Given the Braves pipeline of players like Hanson, Heyward, Freeman and others coming along, “dried up” doesn’t really sound right, does it?
Perhaps the coaching…. specifically the Hitting Coach… could be better.
I love TP for what he did for us as a player… I’m still not seeing ANY RESULTS at all that are relayed to him. All these young players are coming up only to continue to struggle with inconsistancy.
If they are “working on it” where are the results? How long should it take to get results? Kelly Johnson has too much talent to be this bad.
Thanks Mr. Bisher and Texas Ranger. Yes, take a trip across town and check out the AAA team….not much there brother! Maybe 5 0r 6 in A an AA.in the Braves future 2 are 3 years away. JS had a great ST but 7 weeks doesn’t make a ML player. Another year at AAA would have helped him where as this year may do more harm.
Some of you (know it all) would take up for management no matter what. You deserve what you got…nothing!
While I don’t agree the farm system is dried up, it was way better a long time ago. Heyward and Freeman will be great one day. Schafer will be good, not great. He’ll never be the leadoff hitter they envisioned him to be and he’ll never have 25+ home run power unless he hits the weights everyday for the next 3 year or starts juicin’ again (which by the way produced those 10 home runs he had last year when he returned from his steroid suspension). However, with all the good players the Braves do have now in their farm system, some are bound to go elsewhere. Its just a Braves front office tradition JS started (giving up good talent for guys who either won’t stick around long or who don’t do anything for the team). Let Marquis and Wainwright go for JD Drew, 5 top prospects for 1 calendar year of Teixeira. This is also the reason why the Braves have had 6 different right-fielders since 1997 after trading Jermaine Dye for Michael Tucker and Keith Lockhart (what a joke that turned out to be).
N8, I have no reason to believe the Braves have the same level of talent in the farm system today that had in the late 80s early 90s. Take a look at what the farm system has produced in the last few years. Yes, the Braves field a lot of homegrown players and it has resulted in a steady decline in wins. Also, take a look at Baseball America’s recent top prospects for the Braves. not exactly a group of all-stars
2001 Wilson Betemit, ss Yankees
2002 Wilson Betemit, ss Yankees
2003 Adam Wainwright, rhp Cardinals
2004 Andy Marte, 3b Indians
2005 Jeff Francouer, of Braves
2006 Jarrod Saltalamacchia, c Rangers
2007 Jarrod Saltalamacchia, c Rangers
This article makes little sense to me. First off John Smoltz isn’t our farm product, he was in the Tiger’s farm system. Our system is full of great players who are only a year or so away from contributing. We have a chance to contend this year, what more can you ask for without being conceited?
I would say the list of my favorite things in the world goes something like this: (1) Chocolate; (2) Sunshiny May days; (3) Latently racist sports journalists. Congratulations Mr. Bisher, you made the list!
what Braves team are you bloggers watching? FB is right on as usual and apparently ajc readers are smoking some of the dope found in clayton county this week.
Bad topic to pick Mr. Bisher. Six of the starting regulars are “farm” guys. The Braves farm system boasts 5 of the top 100 kids. Included in that top 100 are a total of 9 guys that were/are Braves farm products. The Adam Wainwright deal isn’t what is killing this team right now… in case you were under the gun to get this out and failed to look, Braves pitching is quite good. The Teixeira trade isn’t what is killing this team right now either. The Braves traded a short-stop (Elvis) because they had their own farm grown short stop in the majors (Yunel Escobar). A catcher (Salty) because they had their own farm grown all-star, silver-slugging catcher in the majors (McCann). And then a bunch of pitchers (which the team really isn’t dying for, reference the point earlier). What this team needs is one hitter. Just one hitter that can hit the ball out of the park. There weren’t that many available this past offseason who didn’t have any warts (bad attitudes, horrid consistancy, high dollar demands). The team stood pat. Signed a bunch of pitchers and hoped the addition of Schafer over Josh Anderson would increase overall power, and thus thump up run production. What has happened was Garrett and McCann have been injured and the team has lost some low scoring games. What will happen is anyone’s guess. But know this, the Braves have room to move for additions this summer. So long as they stay close, it ain’t over yet.
THE BRAVES will be marginial for a long time and yes, there are not many studs down there that will bring them back as contenders.
the homers on this blog can wail all they want about how strong the farm system is,but that is just “alot of braves front office BS”.
the braves will be mediocre for a long time.
too many very bad trades has brought the braves to this low point.
we need new ownership to bring the braves back,e.g. arthur blank and what he did with the falcons.that is what is needed.
the braves have way too many holes with very average players and very few players to build on.
that is what furman was trying to say,but we have so many homers here who cannot see the “forest for the trees” .
until new ownership is found, the braves will be a non-contender for a long time.
well, marquis has been at best a league average pitcher.
saltalamachia hasnt been that great, and, whatever happend to andy marte?
our farm team is still good, but we may never see a day again where we produce guys like avery, glavine, justice, like in the late 80’s. that just doesnt happen that often.
The braves are loaded with pitchers Bennitt, Morton, Nunez,Carlyle,Accosta, Ect why cant they trade two or three of thies guys and get an center fielder who has about 8 or 10 years in the game who has been benched by a younger player but still has good skills. Hell R.Henderson can do a better job than Schafer right now.
ok i get the point. bad trades were made. but the conclusion is that our farm is “dried up…?” not at all man. look at baseball america. we’re ranked 6th!!! plus Hanson is a projectable ACE. Heyward is a top ten prospect too. plus freeman. Schafer was ranked way below these guys and he’s a major league starter. also with regards to anderson. speed isnt all you need at the top of the order, ever heard of OBP?
AJC sports writers have become about as credible as the National Enquire. Furman my friend its about time to retire, because your Braves Baseball knowledge has “dried up”!
Been to 10 or 11 TPC’s. Much easier to view than is the Master’s though it can’t touch the ambience. It is one of the best risk/reward courses there is on tour. For every opportunity, there is a penalty. You must put together allaspects of your game to do well. I have seen 18 (toughest hole) played easily and 2 played horribly. Great place to watch golf. Great tourney.
Are you crazy? Do you watch golf? What gives with comments like,
“…he has finished out of the top ten, quite uncharacteristic of the man generally considered to be the best player in the world. He sat it out last year for knee surgery. This year he’s back, but his game is in recovery.”
Who doesn’t consider Tiger to be the best player in the world? As for a game in recovery…I bet most of the players on tour would like to have a “game in recovery” as successful as Tiger has been this year. 1 win and 2 or 3 other top tens (including the Masters)? I think the shear absurdity of that remark and how high we hold the bar for Tiger illustrates he is UNDOUBTEDLY the best player in the world.
Leo Mazzone grew up in rural western Maryland where a paper mill was the best job you could get. I watched Leo pitch for a small catholic school and yes, he was pretty darn good. He has been a constant student of the game and very willing to share his knowledge and experience. When he made the minor leagues, our town was thrilled and we followed his career with great interest. Yeah, he talks a bit rough at times but you had to be tough in the little town he grew up in. Does he deserve another opportunity? Yes. Can he make a difference? Yes. Does he love baseball? No doubt. Leo grew up down valley from Lefty Grove and by most accounts is the most successful athlete to come out of western Maryland, ‘cept for ol’ Lefty. I’m proud of you Leo. Hang in there. Somewhere out there is a kid with your heart who needs your teaching and skills. You will never leave baseball Leo, the game would never allow it. Rob Michael
Thanks, Furman. Interesting point you make. Sound like list of The Players Championship winners is like the list of PGA Championship winners: a lot of less-than-distinguished names.
You know, since Tiger’s come back from almost a year off, he’s been in contention almost every tournament. I think I’m right in saying that no other player has been as consistently dangerous.
And yet, because he hasn’t won, writers and commentators are saying his absence has given others courage and that they’ve caught up to him. Goodness, talk about have set the bar high!
Time was, a player won a couple of tournaments a year and he was doing pretty well. Now, Tiger doesn’t win in his first five tournaments and he’s slid back into the field. Funny old world.
Furman, Thanks for only mentioning Tiger once.
I’m a huge Tiger fan and I get embarrassed by the constant fawning over him by the TV talking heads.
There are others in the tournament.
Furman, Bob Tway posted a double-digit score on the 17th one year. I don’t recall the exact number; but, I’m sure an experienced sportswriter could research it rather quickly–or perhaps an intern. Do you have an intern? Do you need one? I’m not very busy right now. This economy is brutal.
Players Championship is something I always keep a track of. It has the ability to spring some surprises and the unexpected. @Mikey I agree wholeheartedly. I am a big Tiger Woods fan. But seriously, there are other players. Give them due credit. I am a follower of Sean these days. He’s been rising in the PGA rankings (courtesy Trackle – http://www.trackle.com/catalog/details/name/Track-PGA-tour/a/150002) and I think he has great potential.
Furman, the TPC is my favorite tournament! I love the tournament and the Greater Jax area. To me this is the #1 tournament in professional golf. And I agree with you guys, Tiger is great, but there are many other players and the TV people should give all of them their due credit.
All of you who mentioned “you know who” just helped the talking heads. The problem with the media (aka paper, radio, tv, magazine et. al.) in focusing so much on “you know who” their credibility as a trusted, objective, source of accurate information drops. They are clearly more interested in “stories” and making money, than in reporting the facts.
Furman is old school and I think he can be trusted but most can’t be trusted and we should all be wary of believing anything we hear or read. They are selling information and will do anything to do so.
I know that the 17th is considered a gimmick. But I don’t understand why.
What makes one hole a legitimate test of a golfer’s skill and another a “gimmick”? If the 17th had a length of grass between the hole and the tee, would it suddenly be considered a fair but easy par 3?
Other holes rely on treacherous water to intimidate golfers and sink their scores. Why would they not also be considered “gimmicks”?
Do you even follow the organization? What do you know about the farm system? Blauser was good for one year and then went to the Cubs. Mercker was good for one year as well and then ended up with the Reds and then 5 other teams. Avery and Wholers were good for two each. And, Stanton? He never did anything for the organization. He had more success with the Yankees. Seriously, get your facts straight or quit writing about the Braves. You don’t know what you are talking about.
I believe the point is apart from Hanson and perhaps Medlen (which they don’t need now as much as they need power offense) all the help the Braves could summon sits with 18-20 players lower in the system. The odd 18-21yo will come up and stick but it is not the norm.
There is little to no offensive or position player talent in AAA that could right this ship. Gwinnett is struggling as a team. Their OF is sub par etc.
While I am not as down on the prospects as Furman he is correct. The pipeline seems to be log jammed in A and to a degree AA. Gorkys looks good but he is a year away.
Remove Freeman or Heyward from the mix and there is no on from AAA down to A with much game changing offensive talent. They look promising (e.g. Gorkys) but after how Schafer has struggled don’t expect Wren to pull the trigger so easily in ST 2010 (re: very young rookies).
Many people are assuming Heyward starts in LF in April 2010 and Freeman is up later in that year; this may not happen. So in the interim they are wasting millions on over the hill FA and or accepting sub-par play from position players b/c they have no other options.
Put it this way if Infante (who has been great) does down for the season the Braves are sunk unless KJ stops being so bi polar. A bench player should not mean that much to a team.
The Braves rely so much on their bench b/c the usually have little AAA talent ready to go. Not since 2005 when the baby Braves came up have they been a phone call away from AA or AAA ready to go talent.
I hate it when people make comments (in this case Mr. Bisher) like, “no one has factored the loss of McCann into the equation.”
Yes Furman, no one has noticed the absence of McCann. The whole story about his eyes/lasik/contacts/glasses has gone completely ignored by the fans and the mainstream media.
Anyone who watched Woods play on Saturday knows he’s fighting his game. That he was in the final pairing was more a testimony to the failure of others than to his own great golf.
And the fact that he’s been hanging around the leaders since he returned from knee surgery is a testament not to the quality of his golf, but to the strength of his resolve and his will to win.
A man whose game is in a bit of a shambles is still nudging the leaders every time he plays. It’s quite remarkable.
I’m a retired old pro athlete, both knees and both shoulders replaced by Dr. Andrews, you hit it on the head “wxwax” . . . “A man whose game is in a bit of a shambles is still nudging the leaders every time he plays. It’s quite remarkable.” Remarkable, is an understatement given the level of competitive play on any professional level.
Having played on myself in spite of continuous surgeries to repair issues that slowed me, I can say from experience that your statement is a very profound one, indeed.
When I saw the headline, I thought, what an odd place for a story about the Tamil Tigers, down to their last redoubt in Sri Lanka. I never thought the AJC sports pages were so… cosmopolitan. Well, congratulations and keep up the good work. Raji
Cody Johnson is a name that has not been mentioned yet by anyone here as a possible impact position player from our farm system. Here are his numbers from Rome last year.
AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS
.252 127 468 62 118 26 1 26 89 40 177 8 3 .307 .479 .786
Compare that to Ryan Howard in A- ball
.280 135 493 56 138 20 6 19 87 66 145 5 4 .367 .460 .827
Johnson has improved his walk rate this year at MB while hitting for more power (and K’s).
.288 30 104 17 30 7 0 11 23 15 41 3 1 .378 .673 1.051
There are also some really good looking starters at Rome
Jacob Thompson – 35 IP, 3 BB, 26K
Ezekial Spruill – 34 IP, 7BB, 30K
Richard Sullivan – 29 IP, 5 BB, 27K
J.J. Hoover – 23 IP, 2 BB, 29K (only 2GS)
Tiger is one of the greatest golfers who ever lived, and I’m sure that all the sports writers, TV announcers, and others can hardly stand the fact that Tiger has not won so much recently. Had he not been chasing Nicklaus’ record last year at the US Open and withdrawn from that event, I’m sure his leg would not have been damaged so badly. He will return, but in the meantime it is good to see others win.
maybe before you say there is no talent in the braves farm system from local breeding you should check the front page of the AJC, my 19-year old little brother IS the next Braves phenom. Right outta Marietta, bitches.
Thought you would like to know that Ruby Young of Omega, Ga. died May 8,2009. She was the lady who led the Omega High School boys baseball team to the state playoffs in the late 50s. She also coached the girls and boys high school basketball teams. She was quite a lady and coach and she left quite an impression on the lives she touched. I am pretty sure you wrote an article about her earlier.
and………??? What’s your point? Does it matter? Does it indicate anything one way or another? Is there a deeper issue this trend is indicative of? Or is this another “boy the old days sure were great and these days sure are strange” column?
I’ve said it many times, but many of these trends began with the All-exempt tour in the USA. American players are not toughened by weekly qualifying and are perfectly content with big endorsements and mediocre finishes each week. That does not prepare them for playoffs, Ryder Cup pressure or Major Championship intensity.
furman, please retire, or choose to not write about golf, you are not relevant at all…what is your point, golf has never been more relevant as a ressult of tiger woods, the most relevant athlete in the world, whom is an american!…golf is relevant world wide, because of players such as henrik stenson, padraig harrington, angel cabrera…the nfl wishes it could be as relevant world wide as professional golf…stay away from golf you hack!…give your cronies another “relevant story” about bobby dodd and grant field!!…and, be sure to include general neyland!
I’ve long respected you as a writer, but this piece is a “swiiinngg anna miss.” Our lineup and dugout are filled with products from the farm; with more that will do well in the big currently in Triple A. Just because we’re doing it a little different than a decade ago doesn’t mean its the wrong approach.
Excellent column. Some people just get angry because every golf article isn’t about their boy Tiger. He has not been making his usual number of lucky putts this year (except Bay Hill). Thus, he’s not at the center of the golf world. Get over it! I’m sure he’ll play well at the US Open as he’s had plenty of practice from the rough this year.
Mustard Green, sorry you can’t stand it that golf is only relevant these days because of Tiger, but that’s a fact. There isn’t a player out there who can touch him. Lucky putts? Try effort genius, he has more desire than every single PGA player combined.
The Texiera trade will haunt us for years to come. It will be more noticeable if the “golden 5″ were not playing in Texas (no playoff series victories ever). However, this may change for them this year and when it does the Texiera trade will feel alot worse. Andrus is an electric shortstop at 20 years old (gold glove talent). Salty has dramatically upgraded his defense and has recetnly found his power from both sides of the plate. He is also a vocal leader within the clubhouse. Harrison (except for the first tow starts of the year) has been throwing lights out. Two complete games in his last three and 2.15 ERA. He gets the start today agains the Yanks so lets see what he has. But Perez (still 20yrs old) will make this trade one of the worst in our history! His stuff is electric and he as the potential to be a #1 starter for the next 10 years. The Rangers say they will bring him close to the all star break. As I said, because the Rangers are not the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, etc this trade is still below the radar. But once Texas gets into the playoffs or contends late in the season this trade will be all of the talk…because it will be the “golden 5″ who are largely responsible for a quick turnaround! I hated it from the day it was announced, and its only going to get worse!
Furman- time to retire– besides the fact the braves have pitching depth in the Minors– cf looks deep for years– also they got Kinshen for attendance not because the did not have pitchers in minors–
I don’t even know what to say about a “reporter” who doesn’t know that Merker was obtained from the Reds and Smoltz from the Tigers??? Great research you deserve your paycheck.
THAT OBJECT IN THE MIRROR IS CLOSER THAN IT APPEARS
For a golf geek such as myself there is nothing better than waking up early Saturday and Sunday morning to live coverage of the European PGA Tour on The Golf Channel.
Renton Laidlaw’s familiar voice and hilarious quips are a major part of that experience and he will be sadly missed when he steps aside someday.
Granted, it’s not the PGA Tour (American) but it’s pro golf at its finest, nonetheless.
Sergio Garcia recently inferred that the European Tour is “catching up” with its American counterpart, but it’s my contention that it already has.
Just examine the list of winners of golf’s four major tournaments for the past 5 or 6 years.
For what do we owe this phenomenon?
PGA tour players are not as hungry. They’re actually a little spoiled.
PGA tour players are waited on hand and foot.
They always play in perfect or near perfect weather on immaculately groomed courses.
Tiger’s presence has vaulted purses into the stratosphere such that PGA Tour players who don’t even finish high enough on the money list to keep their playing privileges still earn over a million dollars per season in prize money.
PGA Tour players don’t need passports, VISA’s or immunizations for Yellow Fever and Hepatitis.
PGA Tour players have foul weather gear in their bags at all times but their’s collects dust.
Most PGA Tour players leave the country only during the off-season when they are on vacation.
European PGA Tour players, however, are more like us.
They carry their own bags and rent their own cars for the week.
They play on greens that are akin to those at that one muni in your town that actually has a competent greenskeeper with an appropriate budget and not the fabled East Lake Golf Club.
Their purses are not half as big as those stateside.
And to see a European tour player playing in foul weather gear is more the rule than the exception.
I know that hindsight is 20/20 but PGA Tour players not named Tiger Woods or Phil Mickelson have NO shot when seasoned, battle-tested, champion European Tour pros suddenly appear in their rear-view mirrors.
I think the world of your writing and loyalty, but I fear the latter has blinded your good judgment! If you can just for a moment seperate the emotion from the opinion, cleary you must see a highly noticable flaw in Francoeur’s swing. More candidly, he has one of the most unnatural, awkward looking swings in the game and truly exemplifies the term “hacker” that defines one who swings freely and wildly with little or no idea about where the ball is or will be when it crosses the plate.
He’s a good kid, with a good arm and is pretty good defensively, but even an average major league hitter he will never be.
Jeff has never learned the strike zone. Moves his head and tries to kill every pitch. Has no patience
to work a pitcher. He swings on the same plane no matter where the pitch is and gets himself out by
swinging at pitches out of the strike zone. The fact that he has regressed is another indication of what
I have always suspected. Terry Pendelton is a lousy hitting coach. Jeff could use a year at Double A
level and if he doesn’t improve, release him.
How much of Frenchy’s problem with the bat is Pendleton’s fault. He is waiting for Cox to leave and believes he is in line for the Top job. He is a joke. No one under his tutelage has gotten better. Before anyone says Chipper, STOP, he is and always has been a better hitter than Pendleton. TP needs to go and now, he bares alot of responsibility for this mess. PS……Why on earth is Buddy Carlyle in a major league uniform, IF he owns a jersey is should have come from the stadium shops not the clubhouse. If this Team doesnt care, why should we.
No slumping hitter is going to get better under Pendleton; it’s sad to say his only chance at a solid career is to go to another team. TP is an excellent fellow and was a good hitter in his day, but like the guy who’s real good at math but terrible at teaching it…well, let’s just say a change is in order.
Remember when ‘Frenchy’ (I hate that nickname) was in the draft pool? He informed many of the top-drafting (i.e. pitiful) teams that drafting him would be a waste, as he was on his way to Clemson to play football, etc.
Then, when the ‘good’ local team calls late in the first round, he reverses stance and signs up with the flavor-of-the-year!
Reminds me of when Todd Van Poppel, according to some the consensus top-pick, did the same thing back in 1990–and then punked when the Oakland A’s (a ‘hot’ team at the time) came calling late in the first round.
The lowly Braves–owner of that first pick–went with their second choice (or so it was said; as the Braves were stockpiling young arms by the boatload with all kinds of draft picks, both low and high)…That choice? Chipper Jones.
Van Poppel had a less-than-impressive career; the A’s were never too much of a threat from that point on (for sake of an argument); and the Braves went on to become a fairly good and consistently winning and contending team.
Karma strikes again, “Frenchy”…I hate that nickname…I also don’t cut any slack for Hometown Heroes–too much silly emotion clouds good judgment when it comes to dealing with them (Exhibit A to that is the most overrated, overpaid linebacker I’ve ever seen, one Keith Brooking…He of the ankle-grabs eight yards downfield…)
I’m glad Mr. Bisher finally woke up and contributed an article…It’s good to have you back!
He worked w/Texas’ hitting coach over the summer, had a good spring and good start to the season, early; he fell off-track in a road series at Philadelphia, and Coach Terry Pendleton hasn’t yet gotten him back on-track.
Seems to me when coached, Francoeur responded in the off-season. Now he’s unable to work with the Rangers’ hitting coach, so he has only the BRAVES’ hitting coach to work with, and the results speak volumes.
I think if we had a true big bat in the outfield it would take a load of the pressure off of Frenchy. he needs to settle in to being .260, 15 to 20 bombs, and 90 to 100 ribbies. if we had just one more big bat he could settle in to his true potential,which is not as lofty as everyone wants it to be. too much is expected of him alot like Andruw, I’ve always said the worst thing to ever happen to Andruw was hitting 51 bombs, he(frenchy) is what he is, if he goes to Boston do you think they’ll expect anything? Frenchy if you’re reading these blogs like they say you are; first of all, STOP! and second, keep your chin up….here are some numbers for you; Dale Murphy in 1988 160 games, .226 avg 24 bombs, 77 RBIs , 313 obp. chew on that for an atlanta legend, there were other similar yrs. he was my hero as a kid. maybe that’s a bad point considering that was after he won 2 straight mvps….. but just keep trying and not everyone in atlanta has given up on you
JP, I don’t necessarily disagree with you about Pendleton, but Francoeur went down to Texas and worked with a quote, unquote “hitting guru” and he looks worse than he ever has. Seems to me at some point you have to point the finger at the student and not the teacher.
We’re not in the locker room, and as DOB pointed out, not one player has ever criticized TP for his teachings or his method. Maybe, just maybe the guy (Francoeur) is getting in his own way and needs a change of scenery (e.g. the bench, AAA or a new ballclub altogether) until he can figure it out.
Maybe we need to swap Jeff for one of the top prospects in Gwinnett and let him get his head straight….and make no mistake the problem is between his ears, not in his physical makeup…
Do any of you remember back in ‘91 when the young Braves were scrappin’ and we were tomahawkin’ and chanting that lovely battle cry?…remember how a very young John Smoltz had similar problems?… but John’s were on the mound throwing the baseball…
Jeff’s are at the plate….
A fellow named “Jack Llewelyn” was enlisted to help John get his head on straight…I’d say it was money well spent…
Anyone remember Jack sitting behind the plate in the stands with his red shirt on so John could get his focus back from time to time?
So my proposal is bring back Mr. Llewelyn and help Jeff get hold of that part of him that has always been the winner he is…
I see where Jack gets $20,000 bucks a pop for a speach these days (or at least the folks that book him do)….so let’s see at maybe $10K per game what does that work out to…???? hmmmmmmmmmmmm 1.62 big ones per year?
I’d say that would be a small price to get Jeff’s head screwed on right again…and I bet he’d take a package deal that would be a win-win…for both the Braves and Mr. Llewelyn….and of course for us fans…
Consideering the Red Sox paid $50,000,000 just for the rights to negotiate with DiceK I think that is well worth a venture…remember a Chipper or a Texeira rakes in $15-20 million a year….so let’s get to working on Jeff’s…
Anyone know Jack’s number?….ok Schuerholt….ring him up now, time’s awasting…
Bisher Please, How long you want to wait. Frenchy is a joke and has had special treatment ever since he’s been here.. Bobby Cox kisses his A@@ and leaves him in every game no matter what. TP and Cox both need to be fired and replaced by Ned Yost . Let Yost clean house and hire his own coaches. Time for all relics to hang it up.
Everyone on here that believes the braves are done need to rid themselves of braves memorabilia and never come back!!!!!!!! 14 pennants in a #$%#$%#ing. row!! what other team has done that??? in any sport, without coming remotely close to the highest payroll.. its called good business, you have to make risky decisions. The braves management understand this better than anyone. Think about all the players you have mentioned in trades… the best player is adam wainright and he would have a hard time being our third starter!!!! all of the rest would not crack the line up!! this ought to tell you that management has not failed at all .Yes they have given up some talent but in return have solidified themselves at every position except outfield and to my knowledge they have not traded any outfielders..have they?? or any big bats?? This is the braves game, to stock pile talent in positions where most teams fail to and develop them to be trade bait when they need a player or two to be a contender. The only issue the Braves have is that they have relied on old pitchers to get them to the playoffs!
The problem is not all with Jeff. I have a much bigger problem with our hitting coach, Terry Pendleton. I have never, during a game, seen T.P. go up to one of our guys and give him positive reinforcement. I have never heard a player, with the exception of Gregor Blanco, say T.P. has helped him.
Why do our guys have to go to Texas to get instruction? Because T.P. is clearly incompetent. I think a better hitting coach could fix a lot of his (and the rest of the team’s) woes. It isn’t 1991 anymore. It was a good run, but the nostalgia has to go.
These new faces can’t succeed until the old faces stop getting in the way.
Furman: From a long-ago colleague, glad you are one relic who is still swingin’! But, hey, pay attention to these posts and banter back from time to time. Makes it all more lively.
Jake, sorry, and to paraphrase Billy Martin ridiculing comparing Reggie Jackson to Willie Mays, Frenchy couldn’t carry Murf’s jockstrap. Dude was an awesome ballplayer in all phases, and if the crappy Astroturf fields back then in St. Louis, Philly, Montreal, Cincy, etc, had not destroyed his knees Lord knows what numbers he would have put up to perhaps get him to Cooperstown.
Anybody remember Brad Komminsk? Jeff F. unfortunately has the same stiff, lurching, hacking style at the plate. Sorry to say, stardom is not likely to happen for him. Unfortunately, the ranks are thin in replacing him.
Yes fans, lets give Jeff more of a chance — in exhibiting some real patience. After all the season’s only a little more than a quarter over.
He has shown some signs of coming around — in spurts granted. But signs nonetheless.
Keep in mind too, that Jeff — as of Friday night’s action — is 2nd on the Braves in RBI’s with 23 (Kotchman and Escobar are tied with 24) and third in total bases with 65 (behind Escobar with 71 and Kotchman with 69). That’s ahead of Chipper, McCann, and Johnson in both categories!
It surely must have easier to play in pre-blog days. I hope at least that Jeff is staying away from reading internet newspapers.
Except for Furman’s article that is.
Hang in there Jeff! There are fans who are pulling for you!
And do continue to keep in contact with Rudy, showing patience yourself in keeping with his instruction!
what I find most disturbing is Jeff’s arrogance! You CAN have arrogance if you’re Ted Williams…Somehow he flew thru the minors–and picked up bad habits until opposing pitchers figured him out. The Braves sent him to the minors where he belonged, JEFF WHINES AND CRIES and then he is brought up! 3 games was NOT enough. 3 MONTHS in the minors maybe. Its partially the Braves fault for coddling him…
I still do not understand the reasoning on getting rid of JF. You are not going to get much. Send him to the minors to try to correct the problems. If Jeff does not take that well again, he needs to to have some mental adjustment and then work on the swing. He should have stayed down last year for at least two months. I blame the Braves for not leaving him down. Too many young prospects are gone. You can’t get a big bat for JF, unless you put in one or two frontline prospects. The Braves can ill afford to do this. We also don’t need a big bat that is a rental or is 38 years old. It is time to show some patience and take a gamble on Jeff, not some old retread.
The problems are too deep to fix with a dump Frenchy movement.
1. Chipper will be hurt again this year.
2. KJ will continue to be a streak hitter.
3. LF will produce neither speed nor power.
4. TP will not be able to ‘cure’ JS of his strikeout sickness.
5. Management will trade Medlin and others for some short term fix. This is the reason Medlin is in the majors….to showcase to other teams.
Braves do not need a short term fix….the team needs a complete overhaul.
BC and TP must go. BC was spoiled by a great rotation and is making decisions based upon his memories of players past and not of rookies and players into the future. TP has done nothing for any hitter on the team.
The Braves could have patience with Francoeur if he were a slick fielding 2nd baseman or shortstop. His hitting is totally unacceptable for a corner outfielder and it’s getting worse year by year. The Braves can’t keep running him out there to strikeout or hit into a double play with runners on base if they are still hoping to contend this year. It’s time to move on. Outfielders who can hit better than Francoeur is hitting this year are a dime a dozen and replacing his “production” shouldn’t be difficult.
Ok. That was harsh. It’s just that we’ve waited for the last three seasons… a little hard to take being asked to wait longer. This isn’t a slump, it’s a body of work.
I think Jeff needs to either be sent across town to Gwinnett until he can prove he can hit, or traded for a prospect. Clearly he is not going to get better by hacking away at every pitch sent his way. He has never adjusted to the major leagues and every scouting report has him figured out. In the meantime Diaz is sitting on the bench ready to knock the cover off the ball every time he comes up. Time to let the egos go and think about the team. And we don’t need another future Yankee after one year – we to develop young talent.
The problem isn’t Francour, KJ, or JoJo or any of the other guys. It is management. At what level I don’t know. But either the wrong players are getting to the Majors or they are being mishandled when they get there. It is one or the other or as I suspect, both. That is what you Mr. Bisher should be talking about. Heck, all these ballplayers want to succeed and should know how to play the game. How come they can’t play consistent good baseball? Something is in their way.
It’s heartwarming that you want to give Jeff more time, but how do you support your argument? Just saying this does not make Jeff a better hitter. He has tremendous natural talent, but he also seems to be trying to carry The Braves, something he cannot do with his lack of major league hitting ability. He seemed to be turning a corner at the beginning of the season, but has reverted back to old (bad) habits. Having Jordan Schaefer hitting behind him has only worsened his hitting – pitchers can play with Jeff in and out of the strike zone because they know 1) he will swing at mostly anything, and 2) if he does get onbase, Schaefer will strikeout, and then comes the pitcher’s spot.
The problem has been that there has been way too much patience on the part of management. Francouer is simply a bad player and has been so for several years. His lack of power and inability to get on base is remarkable when one considers how much playing time he has received. He won’t get any better. His bat is slow. He’s stubborn. He’s really not very bright, even by baseball standards. And he doesn’t take responsibility for himself. His sense of entitlement is only encouraged by the enablers like Bisher and people on this blog who make excuses for him and want to lay the blame on Pendleton.
Furman Bisher and Terance Moore are two of the most despised people in the state of Georgia. I really thought the AJC had parted ways with both of these individuals. Unfortunately I was wrong. Dr. Thomas Johnson
TP isn’t the problem. It’s the players. He can’t make Francouer swing at strikes and he can’t make Schafer ready for the majors. Like Roger McDowell last year,
Patience? Oh come on now….. How long should we be patient while he will not adjust. For a brief period when he did not swing for a homerun to left on every swing, he looked ok, just ok. But now that the old Jeff is back and trying to pul everything, he stinks.
Brad Komminsk!! Good call! I’m still laughing and I couldn’t agree more with the comparison. Yes, we must be patient with young Mr. Francouer. We must not rush him to order what he wants from Waffle House for the meal he be eating on the bus that will haul his sorry carcass outa Dodge. Bisher, when are you going to hang it up? You haven’t saved enough money over the years to pay your own way to the Kentucky Derby and the Super Bowl? Give up that press pass and take the same bus Frenchy’s taking. Sionara!!!
Mr. Bisher:
Patience is a virtue but in Jeff’s case it’s getting rather expensive. His current $3MM+ salary places a premium on current performance. Braves management overeacted to last years pitching woes by overcommitting in that department in the offseason, leaving few resources to shore up position player shortcomings. Bobby Cox believes solid pitching covers up shortcomings on offense and defense. Frank Wren seems to agree with him since he provided two additional top of the line rotation additions in the offseason. Now Bobby has to earn his salary by proving that his philosphy still holds true in a division with offensive powerhouses like the Phils.
After reading this article/column I think it’s time for Furman to mosey off to wherever it is that washed up columnists go. This is strictly the ramblings of an out of touch old man. Andruw Jones is having a decent year because he is there with Jaramillo and not here with Pendleton. If we had Jaramillo here, Jeff would be better, but Jeff cannot defeat those demons in his head that tell him to pull every pitch, regardless its location.
Thank you for your view Mr. Bisher. My thought is that perhaps Francour is a scapegoat at some level for this poor team. Yes I know he is floundering but almost our entire lineup of position players is too. We have a lineup of midlevel (at best) and lower level major leaguers with no speed and no power. If we rid ourselves of Francour will it really make Anderson,Johnson,Kotchman,Schafear,Diaz,Norton, Prado, Infantae….. improve ??? Our problems go much deeper than just JF. And I agree with others that TP should be removed NOW and Bobby should have proudly retired at least two years ago.
Mr. Bisher,
Francoeur’s problem is very likely that he cannot “see” well enough to hit major league pitching with any consistency. Recall his minor league facial fracture(s). Last summer it was reported in AJC sports pages that Francoeur had experienced some “deterioration of his visual acuity” since the time of the previous injury. It was “to be looked into.” Nothing more that I know of has been reported or mentioned anywhere publicly about this possibility. I believed that sadly, over time, Jeff’s ability to visually “track” the flight of the baseball (both at the plate and in the field) has diminished. And this to the point where the former budding star cannot now “recognize” pitches with any consistency (nor make even the occasional “spectacular catch” in the outfield). Surely, the “raw” physical abilities that catapaulted this local hero to the edge of national stardom in his early 20’s could not have deteriorated so rapidly as to explain his current difficulties on the diamond at age 25!
Inability to “see” and “track” pitches readily explains Francoeur’s “impatience” and “jumpiness” at the plate. You’d be “nervous” too, if you had 90+ mph fastballs coming at you that you could not visually “pick up” and “track” clearly. I would bet that in an honest moment, Jeff would admit that he doesn’t see the baseball like he used to. He probably rarely, if ever, picks up “spin” so as to enable him to differentiate pitch type. I doubt that he even remembers clearly those “heady” early days when pitches probably looked like “basketballs” lobbed up to him, at least occasionally. I would readily bet that in 2009, every pitch that Frenchy (and his diminished visual tracking abilities) “sees” challenges him as would an approaching “missile” Everything looks like a “fuzzy aspirin tablet.”
Consider McCann’s recent difficulties “hitting” when his vision deteriorated a bit. New glasses, “voila,” he’s back! (It is not likely near so simply remedied in Francoeur’s case. I fear that his problem would not be amenable to “corrective lenses” or surgical fixes. My guess is that Jeff’s is a “nerve-related” problem.) Frightfully, recall the case of Red Sox darling Tony Conigliaro from days gone by.
One corresponding phenomenon that is so obvious with Jeff is that one night he seems to have decided beforehand that he will swing at every first pitch regardless of location. He probably has in mind the hope that it will be a relatively “straight” fastball that he can time and get his aggressive bat upon. After going 0 for 4 for the night, and grounding out to second base twice with runners in scoring position (on the first pitch both times, no less), the next night ( after being “scolded” by TP, Bobby and/or various sports writers), Jeff obediently “lays off” the first pitch. On these nights, however, it seems that the first pitch is always a hittable fastball right down the middle. Now the even more nervous (and angry) Frenchy is facing an 0-1 count (which feels to him like 0-2). Now the real fun begins (for the pitcher, unfortunately). Typically, pitchers will then work Jeff in on his hands (”fouled” away); then up above his neck (”checked” swing, barely); and then, to finish him, something 8 inches off the outside of the plate, often in the dirt (swing and a miss, or weak grounder to right side).
Night after night of this would make any of us into the “head case” that Jeff is purported to have become!
One last point, note that Jeff never makes a “spectacular catch” any more. Oh, he gets “close.” But the “catch” is never made. Not even once and a while, which the law of averages would favor (even crappy fielders catch a surprise once and awhile). Note also that he never “dives” for anything in front of him or to his side as most right fielders, in particular, are seen to do. Again, Jeff isn’t able to clearly “track” balls in flight with adequate confidence and accuracy so that it becomes “second nature” for him to make aggressive attempts at making a play. Also note, he pursues the occasional possibly “catchable” ball near the top of the fence (”Otis Nixon” balls) more aggressively than he pursues “iffy” balls in front of him or to his side. Subconsciously (?consciously) he knows that failed but valiant efforts to make a play on potential “fence-toppers” is much more acceptable to teammates and coaches than “flops” on balls in front or to the side. (”Cost/benefit” ratio considerations.)
Oh, last thing, really. Someone should check Francoeur’s daytime BA vs. night-game BA. I would bet that it is telling, as well. His “improved” spring training stats were based mostly on day-game plate appearances. It’s likely that sunlight gives him an even greater advantage over night-game conditions than it does the average player. But, the bottom line remains, “You can’t hit what you can’t see.” At least, you can’t hit well with consistency what you can’t see well with any consistency. Not at the MLB level, anyway.
Wife’s sending me to store. Hope that you read this, Mr. Bisher. Frank Wren needs to do some thinking about this situation.
Reno
I wonder how you ever got a job at AJC. Your column is filled with sentence fragments. It is filled with all sorts of grammatical errors.”For Jeff Francoeur in particular.”, “For those who came to Turner Field to cheer him, but now jeer him.”, “A flurry of conjecture.”, “Homegrown hero?”, “Francoeur, Brian McCann, Nacay McBride, Kelly Johnson, Ryan Langerhans, and two Canadians, Pete Orr and Scott Thorman.”, “Most of it.”, and “Home runs, RBIs, and yes, strikeouts. as well?” are all sentence fragments. Did you ever take “English Composition 101″ in school? Or better yet, did you ever go to school? Moreover, there are run on sentences throughout your column. Does anyone at AJC oversee what you write? You shouldn’t be allowed to express yourself if you don’t know how to do it. Please, if there are higher ups at AJC reading this, I implore you to fire this mental midget.
More importantly, you don’t seem to get it. “Frenchie’s” time with the Braves has come and gone. His arm is his one redeeming quality. Other than that, he can’t hit for average or power, run the bases, score runs, or cover any ground in right field. He is clearly not the five-tool player we thought he was when he broke in. In addition, I recently read something you wrote about how the Braves have no talent coming up. I think your ideas are idiotic and you have no clue about the current state of the Braves. Please get the f— out of the business.
For what it’s worth, Scott Thorman started the season with the Rangers Triple-A affiliate in Oklahoma City and was traded to the Royals and now is in with Omaha. In 20 games, he’s hitting .200. Oblivion, indeed.
whoa! don’t be so hard on the beaver, uh, furman bisher. furman is one of this journalist’s heroes. have read everything bisher has written for many years and furman always informs and entertains. jimmy smith never missed the college football show on local television with the coaches and with furman and outlar and minter and mehre. furman has earned furman’s place as dean of sportswriters (of course, sportswriters and all writers are dropping like flies at the ajc ). great body of work over a long distinguished career. much like this journalist, only different.
now, baseball . . . norm van brocklin said, “you can’t coach intelligence.” was that football? either the player is smart enough to understand and accept coaching – or the player is not. francoeur appears uncoachable. much like andruw for two seasons. is it the coach? or is it the player? won’t take coaching and won’t take a pitch. never competes with a pitcher – always swinging and always behind in the count. has a few “holes” but not pointed out by chipper like chipper pointed out the “holes” of the rookie, schafer. francoeur shows off the arm and allows runners to advance with ill advised throws. yes, jimmy smith thinks it is time for another player in right field. last year francoeur failed with the bases loaded how many times? and bobby kept sending francoeur up there. again, ill advised. go figure.
and this blog has a radio personality and the grinch blogging here. like old times, only different.
if anyone’s vision (and judgement) needs checking . . . might start with wren and with bobby. doesn’t bobby see how this is working (or not working) from the dugout? must have something pre-occupying bobby in the dugout. can’t pick out what that is, though.
last journalist out at the ajc, please turn off the lights.
J.P. and 61 Year Old Brave Fan are right on.
I think the Braves rushed Francoeur to the majors before he had
time to develope at the minor league level.
I don’t think he can handle the pressure of being the Hometown Hero.
The Brave’s line-up has not been one to faer in many years,and
the hitting coach has to share some of the blame.
mr bisher great article wish we could see more of them and for what it’s worth the gentleman stew who wrote earlier got his name because it equates to his brain power
5 seasons isnt enough? him bashing the org isnt enough? pay attention to his numbers since he’s been here – rbi’s are a crap stat so dont throw those at me. How about we look at the fact that he’s now working on his 3rd sub .300 OBP in 5 years. The kid cant hit, has no power, has lost all of his range. He’s got two things going for him, a strong arm, and little girls screaming for him at the game. Or here’s another idea, we can be patient with him. Then let him go to his next arb hearing asking for $6 mil next time and we’ll be at the same place next year saying lets just be patient, he’ll turn things around. He’s a lost cause and this team is a .500 team unless changes are made starting with our RF
Furman, I would agree with you in most cases but here is why I disagree in certain aspects.
I agree, we should have more patience but at the cost of potentially costing us another season? He is really hurting this team.
The other BIG problem I have with him is ATTITUDE. Last year when he was sent down, he was terrible and really hurt the team. When he got sent down, he got all pissy and had a bad attitude. This year when he came back and has stared siwninging at too many bad pitches, his answer is “its the only way I know how to hit, to be aggressive”. Guess what Jeff, this is the major leagues, not Parkview, you have to adjust not just your stance but your appraoch to each and every at bat.
The kid just doesn’t get it.
I hope we do keep him but he needs a wake up call. If his attitude doesn’t change, he will be a perennial .250 hitter, hit 15 hrs and drive in 80 RBIS
How much more patience is expected? We know, without a doubt, that Francoeur is a slow-footed, scatter-armed, occasional singles hitter who strikes out a lot and can’t move runners over in key situations. We know his outfield skills are already on the decline, and that he is anything but a team player. He’s a guy you can count on if the score is 9-1, but not 1-1.. At this stage in his career, he should be an everyday cleanup hitter. He is a 7th hitter at best, and would be 8th (or 9th) on a good offensive team. Patience indeed.
I agree that Terry Pendleton is the problem. Francoer is not the only example of a player getting to the majors, hitting the ball very well, and then his production slips more and more. Brian McCann has not been the same player since his rookie year. Diaz, even Escobar, are not the same hitters since they’ve arrived. For all of us that celebrated Andruw Jones release a couple of years ago, he is hitting .300 as pinch hitter and occasional DH with 14 RBIs and 4 homers, and a .605 slugging percentage. Furcal is off to a slow start this season, but he has been a better hitter since leaving the Braves. I think the only reason that Chipper’s numbers are somewhat consistent is because he came up under Terry, so Terry leaves him alone. It’s been time for TP to leave.
Jeff needs to work the count and get a better pitch to hit. He doesn’t need to swing at the first borderline pitch that comes his way. All the teams know this and just let him get himself out. I don’t think the fans need to learn patients as much as Jeff does.
Boy, what a negative bunch on this blog. Berating Cox, Jeff, Wren, and TP has now grown to berating Furman Bisher, one of the greatest sports writers of all time.
I do agree with the one who thinks Jeff has a vision problem. Maybe, just maybe, his efforts to work around this problem has led to his sub par performance the last couple of years. Correcting this problem could correct Jeff and everyone would be happy. It’s well worth a try.
Listen to the voice of experience here. Furman has been here since before the Braves came to ATL, like me. You don’t sell low on stocks. You don’t trade Francoeur while he’s down, especially a 25 year old. BUT…you don’t have to play him every day either. Bring up Brandon Jones an let him platoon with Jeff for a while. It can’t hurt. If we trade, we should trade a good player to get a good player. I have heard such trade suggestions as Francoeur for Jason Bay. Yeah, right. Here’s what the Braves can do: Teams will be begging for a player like Soriano. He can close for anybody right now. we have a closer and have pitchers in Gwinnett to take his spot. Bottom line is that you have to trade value to get value. So, get some offense by trading Soriano, IMHO. And, BTW, you may can combine Soriano with Francoeur for a good deal somewhere too. I wouldn’t be opposed to that if the deal is good, but I’m not giving away a 25 year old player with the potential of Francoeur.
I’m not going to waste time and space blaming the player or the coach. This is a results oriented business and the Braves are getting very little production from rightfield. PERIOD.
This has been going on for far to long. It’s time “loyalty” takes a back seat and someone does something about it. I think the whole team needs someone to light a fire under all of their butts. With all due respect to the manager, I don’t think Bobby Cox is that person.
It’s time for Cox to move back in the GM role (sorry Wren, you’re out),
it’s time for Francouer to not be in the starting lineup,
it’s time for our outfield to not be the worst outfield in baseball,
it’s time for Glavine to retire and quit holding on and holding the team hostage,
it’s beyond time for all of these things to happen.
And for F. Bisher to write about more patients for frenchy… well time is beyond him too.
It’s been 3 years since this team has been in the playoffs and i think it’s safe to say this is #4. When does excuses give way to actions? When?
you’re right he’s not the same hitter he was when he was brought up, he’s a lot better. He and Jeffrey are on totally different career paths. They really should be mentioned together. BMac will earn his 4th all star selection in the 4th straight year. He’s the best offensive catcher in baseball, he or Victor Martinez
Im just amazed out how many people call themselves baseball fans and truly want this team to be better, but at the same time they dont see the problems we have and they just want to remain patient. If thats the case lets stay patient and we’ll continue to be a .500 baseball team
Andruw Jones has continued to improve under Jaramillo, because he sees him every day. Creates a problem when Francoeur sees him, has a successful spring, and then loses all instruction. Under TP, A. Jones went from an MVP player back to a Mendoza-liner. Francoeur went from the face-of-the-franchise to (go out to Turner and pick your phrase). The fact that guys go to other hitting coaches in the off-season should be a good clue.
It’s well worth a try. Do you believe the Braves are so stupid that they didn’t have Brad ,sorry Frenchy’s eye’s checked? Negative bunch? Just meee, you won’t know the truth if it hit you in the face.
The issues facing Francoueur & Schafer shouldn’t be worked out at the major league level. Forgetting the nine hole, Braves are playing 6 on 8 every game.
He’s an adult and getting paid as a MLB player. Patience was shown most of last year when he was floundering and hitting at about a .210 clip. We should give patience to those who give “Team” effort EVERY DAY! Maybe that would be a better name for us – The Atlanta Patients!
reno, exactly and where it shows the most is in the field. i have seen many playable but difficult balls he used to make look routine that are now made into almosts where he looks awful and out of position where he has over run the ball or misjudged the flight. i think it falls on poor depth perception. i would hope he has been “measured” for this problem but it is a challenge to diagnose. if he cant do it in the field i assure you he will not be more than a blind squirrel at bat even with all his other skills if you cant see it you cant hit it.
The only times he seemingly can’t see the pitched ball well is when he is trying to put it over the left field stands. He sees it pretty well when he tries to hit it to right or center. Doesn’t sound like a visual problem?
Well sure Furman, but why on Earth can’t he discipline himself to not swing at the first pitch? Last night he could have stretched out on a foul pop over first but did not make the effort. There is a perception that he doesn’t try very hard and isn’t very bright. I’m rooting for the kid but he needs to play with more enthusiasm.
Who is this writer? Is this a joke? Pete Orr was a bright young prospect? Scott Thorman? AJC, please get a writer that has a clue. Frenchy is a meat head that is resistant to change, and he has a low batting intelligence, give me a break!
Witness “stew” above and feel sad at the world-view of the modern American Internetian – stupid, snobbish, disrespectful. Imagine “stew” having the temerity to criticize a person with a 50-year career in sports writing, who has won every award to be won by a sports writer.
Furman Bisher your old and out of touch just like our manager.
Change of subject – Notice how the Dodgers just keep rolling along with who they have instead of lame excuses for losing a starter like us anytime someone is hurt? Lets see…. hmmmm…. why is that? THEY HAVE A GREAT MANAGER AND OURS SUCKS!!!!
“Frenchie” ruined it with me when he was sent back to the minors and acted like a prima dona who was bigger than the game. I’ve never wanted him to fail and I hope he comes back and gets it together, but he can kick rocks for all I care!
Let me tell some of you clowns something about hitting. After being in the league since 1997, no one should have to tell Andruw Jones how to hit! Tiger Woods said that after years to being a professional, he knows his swing and he works with his coach to fine tune some things. In other words, these are professionals and at some point, they must take responsibility for what they aren’t doing. TP or no one else can make JF stop trying to pull everything, rufuse to take an ocassional pitch or TRY TO TAKE THE BALL THE OTHER WAY!!! For the blogger that put out Jeff’s stats and how he’s leading the team in those categories, HE’S PLAYED EVERY GAME!
Hey Furman, ask the Braves starting pitchers just how much more patience they have in these ‘non-performers’. Chipper said it in the post-game interview last night, if Francoeur, and others, has in idea what he wants to do when he goes to the plate it disappears just as soon as the pitcher releases the ball. Now that’s the guy that needs to show some patience, not us, and certainly not the starters. My guess is that if this continues, along with Kelly Johnson’s errors, J. Schafer’s SOs, G Anderson’s lackadaisical play, then Lowe’s, Vasquez’s and JJ’s agents will be calling for trades before the deadline.
Patience…any day now the Mets and/or the Phillies or Marlins will take off like a rocket ship and the Braves front office will be sitting here counseling ‘patience’…bull…like the buzzard say’s ‘patience hell, I’m gonna kill something.’
Frenchy will never hit like Chipper. So stop thinking he should. Until you put a good stick in front of him and behind him, he will continue to struggle. There are guys in the lineup who are hitting a lot worse but all we hear about is Jeff.
Some guys hit no matter what because they are gifted (Chipper). Some guys hit because of the strong lineup. Frenchy doesn’t have Chipper’s baseball mind. He has a ton of talent but needs a little help in the lineup so he starts seeing better pitches. Instead of moving him down in the line up how about going up to #2???
Improve the lineup from top to bottom and the numbers will rise.
Stop blaming TP and Bobby! The front office needs to continue to find the right talent and get them in the line up. The pitching is a lot better and still needs some work. The right trade, the right free agent……..we are almost there.
Bish is right……..You arm chair, band-wagon fans need to shut the hell up and stop your bitching!
Sage of Bluesland wrote: “Hometown Heroes–too much silly emotion clouds good judgment when it comes to dealing with them (Exhibit A to that is the most overrated, overpaid linebacker I’ve ever seen, one Keith Brooking…He of the ankle-grabs eight yards downfield…)”
I’m surprised you left Jessie Tuggle off your list of failed “hometown heroes”. After all he is from Georgia as well and had fewer impact plays than Brooking even though he played three more years as a Falcon (Brooking 17 sacks, 12 ints; Tuggle 21 sacks, 6 ints.). If Brooking is so terrible why the Cowboys grab him 36 hours into free agency with plans for him to start at LB? Hmmmm….your prejudices are showing. Try not to get too upset when KB56 gets inducted into the Falcon Ring of Honor. Back to the fan favorite punching bag for now…Jeff Francoeur. He has a great arm and has had flashes of brilliance at the plate so I say we keep him. He is still pretty young and maybe the proper coaching can bring out that hitting again. Pendleton clearly isn’t the answer for anyone. Maybe send Francoeur over to Gwinnett for awhile and bring up one of the new whiz kids. I would hate to see Francoeur go to another team and really develop into a great player.
Is Francour a good kid–yes. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have problems at the plate. He has had 2 years to get his act together. Maybe it is the pressure of being the home town hero, who knows. An awful lot of major leaguers did not work out the the team that brought them up. Sometime it takes the shock of being traded elsewhere to wake a player up. Most if not all of Francour’s problems are mental and as we know from previous experience that it is hard to overcome. Just maybe if the “great” Francour was traded elsewhere, and had to sit the pine as a backup for an extended period of time he just might learn to trust his hitting instructors.
Who was Jeff’s hitting coach his first 2.5 seasons in the majors? How is it TP’s fault if Mr. “If OBP is so important why isn’t it on the scoreboard?” has abandoned everything he learned from Rudy? Are you one of the hundreds of Braves fans who wanted to fire Roger McDowell last season and the season before when we just didn’t have very good pitchers? Nobody talked about firing TP then, then it was Rogers fault and we needed to get Leo back. Now that we have capable starting pitchers you don’t hear much about firing Roger and bringing back Leo anymore. Funny that.
This is not t-ball. By the time a player is 25 years old and in his 4th season of playing in the majors and he still doesn’t get it then maybe he’s just not that good, never was…and now that every pitcher in the league has the scouting report on him, they know there’s no easier out in baseball. He simply cannot, will not, does not make the necessary adjustments. Swing at the first pitch, swing at pitches in the dirt, swing at pitches a foot outside. Rinse. Lather. Repeat. He is a head case who, by no fault of his own, had unrealistic expectations placed upon him by the Atlanta media. Somewhere along the way Jeff bought into his own hype and decided to hold out for “A-Rod type money” …. thank goodness he did! And when he got sent down last season instead of being humble and admitting and accepting the fact that he needed to work some things out he got furiously mad and lashed out at the team who pays him to be a professional ball player. Its time to get off TP’s back and put the blame where it lies – with Francoeur.
Unlike most of you, I’ve watched every Braves game in the past 4 seasons. The first two years through the mlb.com channel. The past 2 years on Direct T.V.’s MLB Extra Innings package. I live in San Francisco and being a Braves fan, you have to pay if you want to see them play everyday.
Anyway, I’ve had the chance to get a really good read on the capabilities of Jeff Franceour. MLB scouting has Franceour figured out. Franceour does not have the ability to make adjustments. Baseball is filled with players who made a splash their first year or two, only to come back to earth and eventually fade into oblivion because MLB baseball is a difficult sport to excel at long term.
Many of you are blinded by Franceour’s age, the fact that many of you consider him to be a “hometown hero”, and many of you have a “false fear” that if the Braves get rid of Franceour, that he will go somewhere and turn it around and be the superstar that many of you feel he can be. (kind of like being afraid of getting rid of a “promising” piece of stock before the price of the stock “shoots” through the roof).
Here’s a reality check news flash: Many of you are disillusioned. Franceour will never be anywhere close to a power hitter who will deliver in the clutch. As I have said repeatedly, when Franceour tries to go to right field, he either hits a weak popout or ground ball…or…on occasion, punches a weak, looping single to right (like he did last night). Yet he simply does not drive the ball to the opposite field. When he tries to pull the ball (which he tries to do most of the time), he either strikeouts, hits a grounder to short, or hits a lazy fly ball. For someone who tries to pull the ball all the time, his power numbers are ABYSMAL. 14 home runs with 94 RBI’s and batted. .241 in his last 786 at bats. 44 walks and 138 strikeouts.
As much as Jordan Schafer has struggled in his rookie season so far, he does have 27 walks in 160 at bats. Schafer, being a rookie who has played in 48 games, is in the process of making adjustments. Actually he would benefit from having a couple of days off and watch these guys hit and make adjustments without having his head in the game. However the Braves cant really give him a day off right now. So he has no choice but the battle his way out of this hitting woes.
However Franceour has played in 597 career games with 2,336 at-bats. That is plenty of time for a real “superstar” to make adjustments. How much more time do many of you guys need before you finally wake up to reality and see Franceour for what he really is? He is not even a serviceable MLB hitter. Franceour tries to hit the ball, McCann “drives” the ball. That is the difference between the two. Franceour kills rallies, McCann produces rallies. McCann is a 3 time All-Star who plays a demanding position. Franceour will never be an All-Star.
Right now I would like to see Bobby put Martin Prado in right. However, that is probably asking too much of Braves management. Prado is not the long term answer. However he can hit, which is much more than can be said about Franceour. If the Braves cannot make a viable trade between now and the All-Star Break, then it makes sense to keep throwing Franceour out there. However, once Omar Infante comes back from his hand injury, I hope that Bobby Cox puts Infante in right field. Infante can flat out hit,
Hello, I am 9 years old. Even I can predict what Fracoeur is going to do at the plate. Hack and first pitch- strike 1. Swing wildly at pitch 2 – strike 2. Then weakly ground out to second base – yer out.
RENO….That was perhaps the best “possible” scenario of Jeff’s breakdown I’ve read anywhere on any blog about his hitting woes. I too would like to see a breakdown of his day/night splits. Perhaps he should take to wearing those yellow tinted shooting glasses to help him pick up the ball better. Anyone remember those blue blocker glasses that golfers (like me) use to find their balls in the rough? Perhaps he could try those but I fear his ego wouldn’t allow it. Braves are in a real quandry with him. They really can’t send him down if they are going to try and trade him. It would further weaken his already anemic trade value. Even if he hit .300 at AAA it wouldn’t help his trade value until he came back to the bigs and proved the carry over was real. At this point, they can say he is still an “everyday” player at the ML level with the dreaded “potential”. Also, this lineup cannot be fixed with the addition of just one OF bat. Has anyone seen the avg’s of the 6,7,and 8 hitters (regardless of who’s in those spots). Pathetic!! You cannot win games when almost 50% of your lineup can’t even make productive outs. If this team cannot learn to play within themselves (ie..ABC type ball) they will not have a shot a getting a sniff of the playoffs. Keep it simple stupid!!!
Francouer was on steriods when he first came up and now you can clearly see in his build that he is no longer on them. Andruw was the same way. It explains everything. TP does have to go though.
Where’s Don Baylor when you need him.
Maybe at least bring back Bob Gibson so he could slap some of these people up side the head.
Paul Lentz, just above, has it correctly. Fracouer swings wildly. Good hitters DRIVE THE BALL. It’s really simple – Pivot the hips, squash the bug, take the knob to the ball, and extend the bat through the strike zone. One other REALLY AMATEURISH move that Francouer made was working out with the football team two off seasons ago. FOOTBALL – A totally different sport with totally differnt muscle functions – brilliant! Next time try Googling “exercises for baseball”.
As a LOYAL Braves fan, I want to see the Braves win. It isnt that I have anything against Franceour personally. What I have is a problem with his inability to help the Braves win. He kills rallies. The Braves need a right fielder who can hit. Hank Aaron, Claudell Washington, Dale Murphy, David Justice, Garry Sheffield, J.D. Drew were all power hitters who could drive in runs and steal a base every now and then if they caught the pitcher slipping. However, Franceour is basically a hitter who is happy when he loops a single to right field. Yet many of you guys are steadfast in your loyalty to Franceour.
Some you sound like one of those wives who is a victim of a domestic abuser. She will continually make excuses for her abusive husband and talk about “what a good man he really is”, blah blah blah. Many of you will blame the hitting coach, where he hits in the order, the eye doctor, the manager, hometown pressure, disloyal fans, the lunar cycle, etc. for why Franceour isnt driving the ball.
Just like the abused wife needs to break away from her husband, Jeff Franceour fans need to break away from him. His horrific hitting ability is an abusive that one does not need to endure. I hope Braves management will muster up the courage to “let him go” and give a more worthy player a chance to help the Braves win games.
Some will read this message before it get’s deleted.
The Braves are getting just what they deserve with Francoeur. Ha…freaking ha….he is a an over-hyped…sucky….shouldn’t be in the big leagues….appeals to the idiot red-neck fan base…flash-in-the-pan!!!
Bisher you are an old fossilized racist…..you didn’t name any Black players in your list….and I’m glad that Frenchy is a colossal failure. You need to hurry up and die or retire so that your old fossilized style of racist AJC reporting and commenting will go away forever. (along with Lewis Grizzard and Celestine Sibley)
Furman Bisher has never written a positive article about a Black athlete…never. He is and old fossilized/petrified racist. But the hardcore Southern Rednecks love him.
Bottomline….the Braves want their millions of white fans to come to Turner Field every season….and they know these white fans want white heros.
Frenchy was supposed to be the local prodigy/hero…..but he sucks….but Furman is making excuses for him to appease the white redneck fans. Get more BROTHERS on the team!!! Quit trying to make baseball all white.
Bisher has never wrote a favorable article about a Black athlete.
Terrence Moore was the man!!! He’s gone on to bigger and better things. No one wants Bisher.
RHR is right. You can’t blame all the hitting woes on TP. And for everyone who says he hasn’t helped anyone, what about McCann and Escobar? Have they not improved significantly since they reached the big leagues? I am not trying to defend TP, but you can’t just point out what he has not done.
No comments Add your comment
Mr WordPress
February 3rd, 2009
5:11 pm
Hi, this is a comment.
To delete a comment, just log in, and view the posts’ comments, there you will have the option to edit or delete them.
Report this comment
CharlieAlphaBravo
February 28th, 2009
5:39 pm
You’re the Furman.
Report this comment
Bobby Sox
February 28th, 2009
7:15 pm
The Braves are going to stink up the grapefruit league and then they’re going to stink up the regular season going into the all star break, then they’re going to stink up the dog days worse than they’ll stink up September. They stink.
I like to win. I need to win. You journalists don’t seem to care. Worse, you have no idea why we lose, or why we win. Then you write in a lazy fly ball to right field mentality that ruins what little fun an aging man can glean from a baseball game. Baseball is not a lazy fly ball to right field. Baseball is what if, what would it take, how many men……..
You, Furman, forgot about the game of baseball, and all you think about is the uniforms, the bats, and the forgotten wave, which I loved but then it went the way of disco. Why? The wave, properly done by experts in the sport of baseball is the grandest spectacle ever created by mankind, man.
This piece reads like Furman had been chewing pine tar.
Why cant anyone write a piece about baseball’s law of averages, or the quantum randomness of which direction the ball goes after contact. How can one player hit four home runs in one game? Then strike out fifty two times in a row.
The Law of Averages.
Report this comment
cvbraves
February 28th, 2009
7:40 pm
Nice article. Diaz is one of the good guys!
Report this comment
Kurt
February 28th, 2009
7:56 pm
What the hell is Bobby Sox talking about?
Good article, Furman.
Report this comment
Justincredubil
February 28th, 2009
7:56 pm
FB, congrats on writing an article like this. Your past few articles that concern the Braves were lacking in the “makes sense” department. There is one flaw that I find with this one. You write as if Diaz was our everyday leftfielder for the past few seasons. This is a false premise – he just became the regular last year (and did so very ineffectively). His problem wasnt that he was hurt. His problem is that he cannot hit RHP as well as he can LHP. His average drops nearly 50 points against RHP. Until Diaz can hit RHP, he will always be a platoon player, or a bench bat.
THIS he does exceptionally well. He is one of the best pinch-hitters in the game, and I look forward to having that valuable asset on our bench this year.
Bobby, if you think this Braves team will stink, then please, jump off the bandwagon and go write about the science behind the sport.
Report this comment
indybravesfan
February 28th, 2009
8:04 pm
Wow…someone is a little upset tonight about a team that has obviosusly upgraded from last year. The Braves will challenge the division this year! Good luck to Diaz and Anderson…The issue is not left field…it is right field…and good luck to you Frenchy! OUr pitching will keep us in games now our bats need to step up. Go wash your sox Bobby we WAVE goodbye to you!
Report this comment
Gene
February 28th, 2009
8:40 pm
Good luck to Diaz and the Braves. I think that they will surprise us this year.
Report this comment
Tomas
February 28th, 2009
8:55 pm
Hope for the best for Diaz. Hopefully he could find the 2006-2007 Matt Diaz, not the 2008 Diaz.
Report this comment
spotts
February 28th, 2009
9:30 pm
I don’t know if I’d say Brandon Jones will bring the power.
I love Matt’s “I’m in the majors, I can’t complain” attitude. It seems mostly lost in pro sports. I’m kind of against the GA signing. Diaz has a career .288 average against righties (including .357 and .317 in 2006 and 2007). Why put him in a platoon? I’d want him in the lineup every day.
Report this comment
ColaCOL
February 28th, 2009
10:05 pm
Matt Diaz is, indeed, one of the good guys. I met him in Spring Training a couple of years ago and was very impressed by his attitude–gracious, humble, and approachable. I’d love to see him get the chance to hit more against both LR & RH pitching–he’s earned it!
Report this comment
johnf
February 28th, 2009
10:58 pm
I love Matty Baseball. We can not win the NLE or a WS with out him.
Report this comment
President of Matt Diaz Fan Club
February 28th, 2009
11:07 pm
Now you guys know – there is absolutely NO irony in my name!
Report this comment
Uri Kirshstein
March 1st, 2009
12:23 am
The Braves have anb auwsome outfield, amazing starting pitching, and of course Chipper Jones. The Braves are gonna fall behind the Mets, who will win the division, and the phillies who will win the wildcard. I don’t think we are going to the playoffs, but we will have a winning record, and we will have a good season. We just have to get our young players, like Tommy hanson, developed. Once we do that we’ll continue our streak of division titles.
GO BRAVES!!!!!
Report this comment
bravesnfalcons
March 1st, 2009
1:48 am
I really do like the articel, but we didnt trade for Aderson we signed him as a free-agent.
Report this comment
LivininAL
March 1st, 2009
6:38 am
Diaz should also work some in RF. After watching Frenchy go out there day after day with no production, seeing a lineup with both G Anderson and Diaz on occasion would be fun. HOwever, I do wish Francour well this year, but that iron man role has ended. Diaz is a great team guy, love Diaz being Diaz as opposed to …the likes of Manny being Manny!
Report this comment
larry r
March 1st, 2009
7:35 am
Frenchy is very important if we are going to make a run this year. Should he falter look for Schaffer or even Heyward inright by July.
Saw Heyward Fiday in Bradenton,very impressive and 19 years old.
Report this comment
TommyP
March 1st, 2009
8:31 am
“Trade for Anderson?”
Diaz was our starting LF the past few years?
B.Jones offering power. (chuckle)
Choo-chooooo!
Report this comment
jch67
March 1st, 2009
9:27 am
Nice piece on Diaz. If he can hit like he did in 06-07 he’ll be very valuable to the team on the field and/or in a trade if need be. However, you seem to have overlooked the 40 or so games he did play in ‘08 (all but 1 before his injury) where he hit a very pedestrian .244 far below his lifetime .320. Looks like opposing pitching figured him out…
The rest of the article is a bit far-fetched in my opinion. The only thing the Braves outfield is “handsomely stocked” with are questions.
Will Franceour get back to form?
Will any of the young guys prove they are ready for the bigs?
Will G. Anderson be able to hit NL pitching as well as AL?
Wlll G. Anderson be able to play decent defense?
Will Diaz get his stroke back?
I’ll agree we have tons of potential and reason for optimism but, realisticly, we don’t yet know what to expect from this group.
Report this comment
Uri Kirshstein
March 1st, 2009
11:14 am
jch67. Franceour is coming back, and is going to have an amazing season, the young guys like Hanson ARE ready for the bigs, Garret Anderson has never in his career hit below 280, and Diaz is going to sparkle. I don’t know why, but I feel like this is the new start to the Braves.
Report this comment
Uri Kirshstein
March 1st, 2009
11:17 am
Oh yeah Bobby Sox. You have no earthly clue what you are talking about. The Braves are going to rock it up this year. P.S. Bobby Cox is one of the best managers of all time.
Report this comment
cityofdecatur
March 1st, 2009
12:44 pm
thanks Mr. Bisher hope Diaz can rebound …… but the fact is is that he’s shown he’s better in a platoon or off the bench. Much success to both Diaz and the Braves!
Bobby Sox chill man who you really mad at go talk to them. Just had to rip somebody huh?
Report this comment
Keeping It Real
March 1st, 2009
3:06 pm
With all due respect, good attitudes do not win games. Talent does. Put Mr.Diaz on the bench for pinch hitting and put Brandon Jones in the everyday lineup.
Report this comment
LindaC
March 1st, 2009
4:53 pm
Has anyone else noticed that Mattie injured his left knee, and not his shoulder? I suffered through his knee injury just like I suffered through Mark DeRosa’s several years ago.
Report this comment
DMBJAMS
March 1st, 2009
5:32 pm
Thanks for the great read, Mr. Bisher.
I love Matt Diaz!
Report this comment
jch67
March 1st, 2009
6:47 pm
Uri, I hope you’re right!!!
Report this comment
Martin JAcobson
March 2nd, 2009
6:55 am
Diaz injured his knee, he did not “shatter his shoulder” last year. What a dumb article.
Report this comment
Christine Peters
March 2nd, 2009
9:59 am
Mr. Bisher, THANK YOU for writing about one of my favorite — and not-forgotten — players! Matty has the right attitude and gives 200 percent always. I agree he has not gotten the press he deserves. I can’t believe more wasn’t made of the terrible ‘metal in the wall’ where he slid and was injured making one of his trade-mark, all-out catches. It was a terrible accident that didn’t need to happen.
Report this comment
Ross
March 3rd, 2009
11:41 am
Agreed – and hey Furman, you look great! In the pink we hope!
-drl
Report this comment
Brian22
March 3rd, 2009
12:02 pm
Mr. Bisher, you and DOB keep me coming back to the AJC Sports page.
Report this comment
Burman Fisher
March 4th, 2009
4:19 am
Nice Braves minor league blog-
http://minorsandmajors.com
Report this comment
BravesFan
March 5th, 2009
12:53 pm
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/index.jsp?c_id=atl
Report this comment
Joel McKinzey
March 6th, 2009
9:51 pm
THank you Mr B. (belatedly), Matt Diaz has been the MOST under-rated Brave since the beginning of the 06 season, including by the management !! He comes to play every day.
Report this comment
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 8th, 2009
11:20 am
NASCAR lost its soul long ago. They’ve managed to weed out all the independent drivers who worked on their own car, drove the hauler, etc. Racing has no room any more for those who race simply because they love the sport.
Report this comment
realistic
March 8th, 2009
11:56 am
Let’s face it. Wine is way cheaper than liquor and less filling than beer. So if you plan a day (a whole day staying awake) at the race and don’t want to fill up before the race or go broke during the race, you drink wine. Leave this to the “Professionals”. Betty Ford already knows I’m coming tomorrow! LOL! BTW, how many NASCAR fans know about Hendrick owning his own winery in NC??
Report this comment
BA
March 10th, 2009
12:47 am
nice braves site:
http://minorsandmajors.com
Report this comment
HBCUALUM
March 14th, 2009
11:16 pm
It is interesting that according to Ol’ Furman, college basketball in North Carolina began with Everett Case. Remember in the mid-1950’s the ACC was segregated. Michael Jordan, Len Bias, Ralph Sampson would not have been allowed to play in the league. However, just down the road in Winston Salem, Clarence “Big House” Gaines was building quite a career in Winston Salem State. Gaines racked up 828 wins and coached among others, Earl “The Pearl” Monroe. I realize that we are all products of the times we were brought up in but c’mon Furman, such a limited understanding basketball pioneers in 1950’s North Carolina such as Big House Gaines is a joke!
Report this comment
Lew Hege
March 15th, 2009
8:10 am
Another excellent column by Mr. Bisher, who as a UNC grad knows the roots of the ACC and basketball in the South. Having seen my first game in Reynolds Coliseum in 1956, having attend Everett Cases’s camp and met him,and having covered the ACC for more than 40 years, Furman is on the mark about Case. (Furman should have included Ronnie Shavlik in his list of great Wolfpackers.) As for the comment by the reader about Clarence Gaines, he is off base. Gaines was a great coach and man, but Earl Monroe’s biggest stage in college was in a game played in Reynolds Coliseum– all thanks to N. C. State — and the man who brought big time basketball to the South.
Report this comment
hop
March 15th, 2009
1:41 pm
as always furman, thanks for setting the record straight about college basketball in north carolina and the south!
Report this comment
Titus
March 15th, 2009
6:24 pm
Furman, once again, thanks for sharing your unique perspective. What a fine article about the ole Grey Fox — grandfather of ACC basketball
Report this comment
richbrave
March 16th, 2009
10:33 am
My man DYEaz. Go get ‘um.
Report this comment
richbrave
March 16th, 2009
2:30 pm
Any possibility on getting your take comparing EDDIE MATHEWS’ bat with that of CHIP JONES’? Been waitin’ awhile.
Report this comment
Ken Stallings
March 16th, 2009
9:22 pm
As an NC State alum, I know very much of the Everett Case legacy and influence. Case was abused by the NCAA who claimed he bribed a recruit — a charge Case vehemently denied to his grave. Nevertheless, the NCAA put a severe penalty on NC State using evidence that many considered dubious at best.
Given the subsequent harsh sanction involving David Thompson and then the self-imposed penalties after Valvano, NC State is still suffering and trying to recover the kind of historic role and influence that it once enjoyed.
The reason Case gets short shrift is because of the more recent rise of ESPN and the influence of television on college sports. But if people are fair, then they have no choice but to agree that Case is the father of the ACC and his NC State program made the conference what it remains to this day — the premier basketball conference in the nation.
Report this comment
Wilburn
March 17th, 2009
8:45 am
It’s a shame that the World Baseball Classic (WBC) will end after this year. It’s seems that Chipper (Lareee) won’t go back and play next year;so they will have to cancel it. Right???? That darn OBLIQUE muscle that caused him to go 0 for 10 (5 strikeouts)… Everybody knows that if Lareee Jones can’t play the U.S. doesn’t stand a chance. Poor guy-it’s not his fault he’s so GREAT…
Report this comment
wxwax
March 17th, 2009
5:00 pm
Thanks for the history lesson. I wasn’t aware of Everett Case or his influence on the ACC. I appreciate it.
Report this comment
Boston Williams
March 17th, 2009
5:47 pm
In Rivals most recent ranking of top combined FB and BskB programs, only UNC (6th) and FSU (9th) from the ACC were ranked in the TOP TEN of Helmets and Hoops (combined). The SEC had none.
SEC=FB Only
Report this comment
RA
March 18th, 2009
6:52 pm
I’ll tell you what. Any owner could do a lot worse than to call up Leo and make him the next pitching coach for his or her major league ballclub!
Report this comment
Barney Strickland
March 18th, 2009
8:12 pm
Leo Mazzone- What a used up old blow-hard. Anyone would have had success with Smoltz/Glavine/Maddux on staff. The gneral manager was the hall of famer…..not this self inflated loser. If he was so great, how come he had not positive effect on the Orioles? Imagine if we had someone else all those 14 seasons…. You went for the money so now you should GO AWAY & STAY AWAY LEO LOSER !!!!
Report this comment
Cat Man Do
March 18th, 2009
8:44 pm
Why not Atlanta? From what I saw last year, pitching is what is needed. Can we not stand too much of a good thing?
Report this comment
renegade
March 18th, 2009
9:49 pm
Full time roving pitching instructor. Sounds like a title and a job.
The braves could do worse. Leo has a butt load of knowledge and farm teams galore to spread it amongst, I say bring him back and let him work his magic.
Report this comment
Poorbrave
March 18th, 2009
10:47 pm
I’d take Leo back in a heart beat. Leo would make a great mgr.
Barney get a life…you know not what you’re talking about. It was more than money and he regrets it now.
Report this comment
Ken Stallings
March 19th, 2009
3:31 am
Leo no doubt was an excellent pitching coach for the starters. His Camp Leo alone earns him high praise. But, he was at time ascerbic, especially with young pitchers. This accounted in part for poor performance by Leo’s bullpens.
Baseball people look just as hard at Leo’s failures. His most noteworthy failure was with Mark Wohlers. Wohlers threw that hanging slider in the World Series and mentally beat himself up. Leo’s unrelenting style contributed to Wohler’s mental block. A pitching coach who could have related better to younger players might have been able to alleviate Wohler’s shocking slide.
Then injuries beset other pitchers. The list is rather long starting with Steve Avery. Leo’s penchant for toughness worked well for the Hall of Fame starters, but what about others like Avery and Kent Mercker? Didn’t work out to well for them. Remember, in 1991 the Braves had four star pitchers (the Young Guns). Only two of them fulfilled their early promise.
Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz hardly needed a pitching coach. Yes, Leo’s methods helped all of them. But a more professional collection of starters you won’t find. Leo had the three best in that era of baseball.
So while Leo rightly earns praise, he must also analyze the more objective reasons why his phone isn’t ringing with a job offer. He may eventually get one, but if he was the pitching coach genius some believe him to be, then baseball GM’s and managers would be offering him jobs right now. Baseball is a small community and talent is never obscured.
Report this comment
TRobb1
March 19th, 2009
6:44 am
Bullpens? You mean Chris Hammond, Darren Holmes, Mike Remlinger, Kerry Ligtenberg? Greg McMichael, Mark Wohlers, Steve Bedrosian? Brad Clontz, Kevin McGlinchy, Rudy Seanez? Where Leo proved you really can get blood out of a turnip?
Better check out some of those bullpen ERAs. I could go on and on. I challenge you, check the numbers during and after Leo. I’ll bet the bullpen and team ERAs are 1.50 higher. I know we don’t have the Aces in their prime, but look at the peripheral players. It’s guys like the ones listed above where he made a difference.
Not to mention marginal starters who pitched well here, like John Burkett, Russ Ortiz, Shane Reynolds, and Jaret Wright, who should send Leo $200,000 a year for life after signing that $32m contract. Damian Moss, Horacio Ramirez. Guys who optimized what they had for a year or two or three under Leo.
He might have been a little harsh for Jason Marquis’ taste, but then, Jason Marquis is a punk. Dave Duncan couldn’t help him, either.
Leo is a pitching genius. Or at least he’s the best pitching coach, maybe of all-time. It’s become in vogue to bash him as out of touch and harsh and to rewrite history such that he didn’t make a difference, but he did. He’s the best EVER.
Report this comment
TCP
March 19th, 2009
7:25 am
Leo had success in baseball and seems like a nice guy on the radio. But, his lack of knowledge with the non-baseball sports is glaring. He probably would be better off with a pure MLB job.
Report this comment
Sharecropper
March 19th, 2009
7:30 am
Well, maybe Old Leo was a fine pitching coach and all that, but five will get you 10 that his “success” coincided with a Braves’ tenure with three Hall of Fame pitchers who enjoyed very long careers. One suspects his job was to stay the hell out of the way.
Report this comment
Mark Windsor
March 19th, 2009
8:07 am
How could any of you bloggers write something bad about Leo..Our pitching staff has had more arm problems since Leo left than one can imagine and there were alot of washed up pitchers who did just fine with leo and Braves only to leave Braves and be a waste of their new team s money big time..lets see Burkett is one,Reynolds,Wright..and a good bit more..and he always had to peice togeather some type of bull penmainly because so much Braves money was invested in Maddox Smoltz and Glavine..Lets dont forget camp leo..Leo was way more sucessful that the guy we have now..this better be a year for him..
Report this comment
ndadome
March 19th, 2009
8:12 am
TCP is correct. .he knows very little about anything other than baseball, and his grammar is awful. .and that laugh is not what I want to hear in the mornings.
Report this comment
PoliticalMan
March 19th, 2009
8:31 am
Unless one is a true baseball insider, it would almost impossible to evaluate Mazzone. But the Braves had some darn good pitchers with Mazzone here and not just the big three or four. I suspect Mazzone has learned a lot, not from his successes, from his failures with the Orioles. I doubt if there are more than a handful of pitching coaches with Mazzone’s ability.
Report this comment
stan
March 19th, 2009
8:47 am
Please bring back Leo!!
Look at the amount of arm problems the braves have had after he left!!!
Report this comment
Dr. Phil
March 19th, 2009
9:08 am
I think that Leo was responsible for Wohlers’ early success, not his melt down. Leo was one of the best, and he was a great baseball character. Surely the Braves can find a spot for him.
Report this comment
Rob
March 19th, 2009
10:16 am
Shoulda never left a good thing Leo.. glad you recognize it! Maybe Bobby will fire whoever they have now who thinks he’s a “coach” and get you back in the dugout rocking as usual.. God knows they could use you.
Report this comment
Brock
March 19th, 2009
11:40 am
If you are on here bashing Leo then I suggest you go get the book “Tales From The Mound”. This gives you insight of where Leo came from and also who he learned from. It’s pretty amazing. The stories he tells about the players for the Braves (Maddux, Smoltz, Avery..etc) are very cool. May give some of you a different opinion about this great coach. Yes, he may not be radio material, but he is more real than most of the so called morning personality out there.
Report this comment
Tom Tucker
March 19th, 2009
7:24 pm
Met him only once…a first class JERK.
Report this comment
you must be joking
March 19th, 2009
8:33 pm
Barney, are you on crack, or did you just move here a couple of years ago? Leo repeatedly took guys off of the scrapheap, Burkett, Wright, Hammond, literally out of, or almost out of baseball and made them into very accomplished pitchers. All three left Leo to go to other organizations for the big payday after Leo saved their careers, and all bombed after leaving. Ligtenberg was acquired for a bag of bats! A bag of bats! No way McMichael is able to have a career without Leo’s input, and the list goes on. Sure Smoltz, Glavine, and Maddux are Hall of Famers, but show me one coach in any sport who is regarded as great that didn’t have at least some great players. Leo’s importance was not in making the Hall of Famers great, but making the scrap heap guys very good.
I say make him the minor league pitching instructor until McDowell’s contract is up, then promote him.
Report this comment
you must be joking
March 19th, 2009
8:35 pm
BTW, met him once in an elevator in an L.A. hotel, and he could not have been any nicer. As a matter of fact, he offered me tickets to the game, being an Atl resident and lifelong Bravos fan, which I couldn’t accept due to business responsibilities. Almost quit my job right there!
Report this comment
Poorbrave
March 19th, 2009
10:40 pm
Sharecropper: If Leo’s career with Braves, coincided with Braves tenure of 3 Hall of Fame pitchers….Then what the he!! does Bobby Cox’s tenure coincide with? The Braves have won nothing without Leo!?!?
Report this comment
jefferson street joe
March 20th, 2009
8:11 am
Barney, that’s like saying Chuck Noll deserves no credit for the Super Bowls he won because he had Franco Harris and Terry Bradshaw and Don Shula had Dan Marino at Miami. Is it too late to send Barney to the space station. Oh, it already launched. Maybe we can get him on the next trip…
Report this comment
darblue
March 20th, 2009
9:25 am
Here are a couple of captions:
Ex-Brave Mazzone wants to get back into coaching
Ex-Journalist Bisher wants to get back into writing pieces that anybody cares about
BA ZING!!!! darblue out.
Report this comment
Cox's caddie
March 20th, 2009
9:25 am
Leo made a name for himself as Bobby Cox’s caddie. You saw the results in Charm City. The first day he said “I made a mistake.” Nice attitude!! If Leo was such a great coach, then he should have at least shown some improvement for the O’s. Both he and Sammy P were in over their heads. Leo didn’t return any of the ca$h did he? Just go away.
Report this comment
Noah
March 20th, 2009
10:32 am
Correction to story: Sam Perlozzo is not third base coach for Seattle this year or even on their coaching staff.
Report this comment
David
March 20th, 2009
10:59 am
I agree with renegade. Have him roam all the minor league teams, even spend some time with Roger. He has a wealth of knowledge and could be taken advantage of across all the teams.
Report this comment
Jerry
March 21st, 2009
9:19 am
Leo’s pitching philosophy is what makes him the best. If you really think that a pitcher like Glavine who has never thrown hard would have had long term success without him, you are off base. Leo’s appreciation for location and change of speed is something that all pitchers should follow. I also think that he is really coming around on the air.
Report this comment
59bulldawg
March 21st, 2009
11:42 am
Surely there is a job in baseball for Leo somewhere! I would hope the Braves would be that team . . . even if it’s the Gwinnett Braves.
Report this comment
stew
March 21st, 2009
8:35 pm
During our great run, the team ERA was greater than any other team’s. Leo was at the helm.Now with McDowell our ERA is higher. Leo was doing something right. The bottom line
is we won with Leo, we’ve lost with Roger.
Report this comment
35YearBravesFan
March 21st, 2009
9:48 pm
Maybe somewhere else, but not here, and not now.
It ain’t hard to be good with 3 HOFers in the stable. And if you think the past several years are because Leo wasn’t here, you need to go look deeper.
GO BRAVES!
Report this comment
David
March 21st, 2009
10:03 pm
Sam Perlozzo, spent last season as Seattle’s third-base coach after 12 years with Baltimore as third-base coach (1996-2000), bench coach (2001-2005) and manager (2005-07). He also coached third base for the Mariners (1993-95), Cincinnati (1990-92) and the New York Mets (1987-89). He joined the Philadelphia Phillies’ coaching staff in Nov.
As for Leo he absoultely needs and deserves to be somewhere in baseball.
Report this comment
7
March 21st, 2009
11:12 pm
This is old news, lets move on please. Time for a new post. 4 days old.
Report this comment
leofan
March 22nd, 2009
12:20 am
Wren and Scherholz get on it bring em back now!
Report this comment
Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
March 22nd, 2009
12:48 am
Leo left and the division streak snapped. Coincidence? I think not.
Bobby Cox is the most overrated Hall of Fame manager in major league history.
Leo Mazzone doesn’t get enough credit for the job he did at managing all that great pitching.
Report this comment
Linda
March 22nd, 2009
2:29 am
Leo is a bum pure and simple. He had a ride with the big three and ate it up. Heres the problem with Leo. He hates dealing with the young kids, thats why all ours were traded away. Look at Wainwright, not with us. Either is Jason Marquis or other youngsters that Leo wanted no part of. He wanted the older pitchers that knew their stuff. Well now we have young pitchers and I want no part of Leo. He wasnt that great, we had great pitchers who knew what they were doing. Yes Leo had a great ride on the backs of three of the best and he fell flat on his face when he left. That tells you what hes all about. Hes a fake but our big three were not.
Report this comment
Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
March 22nd, 2009
5:43 am
Leo Mazzone spent 40 years in professional baseball and the best that linda can come up with is:
He’s a fake.
I’m willing to bet that you were one of the suckers who voted for Obama? right.
Report this comment
Brenda
March 22nd, 2009
6:22 am
Leo is a loudmouth and a dumbass. He was “right place right time” with smoltz, glavine and maddux there. He didnt make those guys the pitchers they are (but he thinks he did). He was exposed with the Orioles for the fraud he is. Once he was gone, the pitchers KILLED him for being the caustic douchebag idiot he is. What next, Ed Magadan going to take credit for Otis Nixon and Andruw Jones’ greatness in centerfield because of his ability to mow grass? Gimme a break and good riddance, Leo.
Report this comment
Poorjeff
March 22nd, 2009
8:19 am
Brenda and Linda=one and the same=the same would apply to Cox if to Leo=Coach (Ship and Pete will be missed) is correct. Get a Life.
Report this comment
Golly
March 22nd, 2009
8:48 am
Since Leo left, almost our entire staff has had Tommy John surgery. Is it coincidience?(sp) Roger McDowell needs to find another pitching staff to blunder.. BRING BACK LEO before our farm prospects are in line for surgery…
Report this comment
Golly
March 22nd, 2009
8:52 am
looked it up coincidence sorry we need spell check
Report this comment
Jumper
March 22nd, 2009
10:08 am
If it is not for the money, how about giving back to a high school, junior college, or local college that would benefit from his experience?
jumper
Report this comment
RandyB
March 22nd, 2009
10:20 am
Can’t believe all these so call baseball fans talking bad about Leo. It’s just funny here. I’ll say Roger has done good with alittle hick-up. But he was not a Leo with the pitcher he had.
A good place for Leo might be Gwinnett, for right now with Hanson about to come up to the major.
Report this comment
LowCountryBravo
March 22nd, 2009
11:34 am
Braves haven’t been in the playoffs since Leo and Furcal left.
Report this comment
Darrin "The Vent King"
March 22nd, 2009
12:07 pm
Wow- Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz didn’t need a pitching coach? Smoltz? Really? Isn’t Smoltz the one who needed a red (shirt) target held up behind home plate cause he could throw it hard but not STRAIGHT? Didn’t he have that mental block at the start of his career here? Wasn’t he a project? That’s how we got him from the Tigers in the first place people and guess who helped him through that. And its not Leo’s fault Steve Avery (who even admitted it himself) understandably was mentally shook after the premature birth of his child and was never the same or that Mark Wohlers suffered a similar fate when his wife took him to the cleaners. AND Glavine wasn’t BORN pitching that way folks, yes he had talent but he did have someone help him perfect that talent. He did not do it by himself. Okay, I’ll give you Maddux, but let me put it this way- even Michael Jordan had a coach. No, Leo was not perfect as so many of you here like to point out, but then again who is? His positives far outweigh anything he might have done negatively (like ditching us for the $$$). I say bring him back, how in the world could it hurt to have that type of knowledge around? We forgave Glavine for going to the NY Muts, er um Mets I mean, for the $$$ so why not Leo? You know the young pitchers would love to have him around, he’d be a legend to those guys. It would be crazy not to bring him back. Get ‘er done Braves!
Report this comment
Divorced & Heartbroken Braves Fan
March 22nd, 2009
1:22 pm
Frankly, I’d like to get back into my ex-wife.
Report this comment
Roja
March 22nd, 2009
1:26 pm
Actually we won with Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz HEALTHY and we lost with them un-healthy of gone. Leo was just along for the ride – as was Cox. Scheurholz was the genius of the winning streak!!!
Report this comment
Heartbroken Braves Fan
March 22nd, 2009
1:50 pm
Frankly, I’d like to get back into my ex-wife.
Report this comment
Henry Halloran
March 22nd, 2009
3:18 pm
The fact of the matter is what another poster already pointed out. Baseball is too small of a community to have “forgotten” about Leo Mazzone. If baseball peolpe really felt Leo could make a difference on their staff, he would have been hired. Im glad he admits that he made a mistake but its time for Braves fans to get over Leo Mazzone.
Report this comment
LilvininAL
March 22nd, 2009
6:16 pm
Leo is like a free agent, the market is gone for ex pitching coaches wirh big egos. The Braves have employed many ex coaches fired from other teams over the years. I think Leo and Andruw are similar, they rate themselves higher than other major league teams rate their ability.
Report this comment
Youngerthan Thatnow
March 22nd, 2009
8:25 pm
All this friggin’ talk about Cox and Leo along for the ride and Schuerholz was the genius… anybody could have won with Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine… Wohlers and Avery – they were good but Leo ruined them or they were marginal and Leo helped them. This young pitcher or that young pitcher – they couldn’t relate to Leo or they could totally relate to Leo.
Has anybody here ever seen a puzzle… one piece by itself is just… well, a piece of a puzzle. But you put it all together and it becomes a completed picture. That is what all of these parts were/are with the Braves… or any other successful team that you want to talk about.
Earl Weaver wasn’t a genuius when he managed in the old Georgia/Florida league down in Fitzgerald but when you gave him, Robinson, Robinson, Palmer, Belanger, Powell, Cuellar, Johnson and all those other great Orioles… all of the sudden he becomes the greatest thing to hit Baltimore since the doctor slapped Babe Ruth’s naked a$$!
The Braves were and are a TEAM!! It takes every one to make it happen including Cox, Leo, Schuerholz, Gant, Justice, Lightenburg, Deon, Skates, (yeah, he got fooled on Pendleton’s hit to left… but the Braves wouldn’t have been in that series or game without him that year.) Belliard and even the clubhouse boys during those years!
It’s called being a part of a TEAM… take anyone away and it’s not the same and add anyone else and it’s not the same.
Just sign me… Proud To Wear The Tomahawk For 43 Years!!
Report this comment
varoadrunner
March 22nd, 2009
9:53 pm
The only question I have about Leo’s time in Atlanta is: If he was so bad (?) why was his pitching staff so injury free during his tenure?
He handled his pitching staff in a manner many tried to duplicate and had a injury free staff. Can we say that now? Absolutely not! And I’m not talking about our senior pitchers like Glavine and Smoltz…. look at the list….. If Leo could minimize the injury factor, it would be worth at least 20 games won – at least last year.
Roger McDowell hasn’t shown me anything….. I’m not sure how to grade his work, but he hasn’t excelled at anything. At least Leo conditioned his pitchers.
Report this comment
varoadrunner
March 22nd, 2009
10:01 pm
Maybe the rumor that Cox and Leo didn’t see eye to eye was true. It seems that someone like Leo would have been welcome back here, but maybe there’s something about Cox and McDowell we don’t know. Cox’s loyalty to a pitching coach that has clearly failed is perplexing.
Report this comment
Brenda
March 22nd, 2009
10:06 pm
hard to believe if Leo was worth a dam that ALL of MLB wont touch him.
Report this comment
elliwg6
March 22nd, 2009
10:51 pm
A. He was a platoon player before the injury. He became the “everyday” left fielder to start to 08 season, but was quickly put back into a platoon after it became clear he was more valuable there paired with a guy like blanco.
B. He hurt his knee not his shoulder
Report this comment
richbrave
March 22nd, 2009
10:56 pm
HEY FURMAN:
How often have you seen a player like ANDRUW JONES. There must have been a few.
Report this comment
WV Brave
March 23rd, 2009
9:24 am
When did the Braves drop out of 1st Place? When did the pitching staff turn into, well a minor league staff? When Leo left. I am sure just about anyone would have taken more money to work with your best friend, so you cant blame him for really leaving. Bring him back, as a consultant for the farm teams = we forgave Glavine for leaving us and going to the METS so we should do the same with Leo. Personally I would go after Maddux as a pitching coach or wait till Smoltz and Glavine retire and hire them and get rid of Roger.
Report this comment
Henry Halloran
March 23rd, 2009
11:58 am
To all of the posters claiming Schuerholz was the reason for the winning steak:
- Who was the GM that drafted Tom Glavine?
- Who was the GM that traded for John Smoltz?
- Who was the GM that drafted Chipper Jones?
- Who was the GM that drafted David Justice?
Bobby Cox, that’s who. For those of you that want to keep insisting that Schuerholz was the reason for all of the success, your ignoring a huge component, Bobby Cox. Both men played substantial roles in brining all of those division titles to Atlanta.
Report this comment
Andre "Pulpwood" Smith
March 24th, 2009
9:48 am
Dear Furman I am disgusted with the way old people are depicted in your newspaper. We are not all vibrant, fun loving sex maniacs. Many of us are bitter, resentful individuals who remember the good old days when entertainment was bland and inoffensive. The following is a list of words I never want to see in the AJC again. Number one: bra. Number two: horny. Number three: family jewels
Report this comment
Will
March 24th, 2009
12:35 pm
Great Article, Diaz deserves the spot over anderson. I believe diaz can produce way more at the plate and will have a better glove than anderson will. Anderson will be a backup, hes old, time for Diaz to shine.
Report this comment
Bud Wood
March 24th, 2009
1:04 pm
Tell it like it is, Pulpwood!
I think only insiders really know what Leo’s value was but what I don’t like is the way he has lobbied for Roger MeDowell’s job. Every interview I heard form him over the last two years sounded the same, “Gee Golly, I’m so sorry I left the Braves. They’re the greatest. I wish I was back.” He sounds like some high school kid whose girl dumped him. Very thin.
Sorry for this, Pulpwood, but if I was Roger, I’d hit him in the “family jewels”!
Report this comment
Batman
March 24th, 2009
11:25 pm
Braves when down hill fast without Leo around.
Report this comment
Glavine
March 24th, 2009
11:29 pm
I don’t want Leo even in the ballpark.
Report this comment
Bill
March 25th, 2009
1:17 am
I get a kick out of these leo bashers. If you think that leo was just going for the ride. back in the late nineties he took a staqff of over the hill players and turned it into the bull pen with the lowest team era in baseball. the only thing is that the team was only averaging 3 runs a game and came up short in the post season. throughout most of the nineties and the early 2000s the pitching staff carried a collection of stiffs at the plate. the last five years we havent had a desent pitching staff. last season we had quite a few big boppers and a bull pen that couldnt hold down thier lunch much less a lead then we traded two integral pieces of our offense and we fell apart. during the off season the free agents avoided the braves like the plague. we tried to get peavy and the padres pulled the plug on any deals and then there was the furcal deal that fell through. You cant blame roger on all of that but we havent been the same team without leo. Give it a rest about leos short coming and remember his successes. Hes a great motivater and his work ethic is beyond question. I would wecome him back in a minute
Report this comment
Kevin L.
March 25th, 2009
2:45 pm
Mr. Bisher:
How can I get my hands on the documentary piece on the development of the Myrtle Beach area? I’ve seen it once or twice but can’t find out how to locate it. I only ask you because you are mentioned in it as being one of the four or five main players in the development.
I’d love to get it on a DVD.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Report this comment
Stop the bashing
March 25th, 2009
5:33 pm
Leo is a great guy. I know him personally and both he and his wife are stand up people. It’s dangerous to let your perception of one area of a person’s life skew your total perception of them as a person. Let’s stick to the professional critique…
Report this comment
Gaylord Perry
March 26th, 2009
3:36 pm
Leo taught me how to throw a spit ball.
Report this comment
Joe D. loves Marilyn
March 27th, 2009
8:32 am
Furman,
Wrong…again! Old pal Sam is not the third base coach for Seattle…Bruce Hines is. Check your facts before you write the story…
Selah…
Report this comment
Joe D. loves Marilyn
March 27th, 2009
8:36 am
Furman,
If you had checked…
Sam Perlozzo is now the third base coach for the Philadelphia Phillies…
Selah…
Report this comment
richbrave
March 27th, 2009
5:10 pm
I do mine with tissue paper and in solitude.
Report this comment
Roy
March 27th, 2009
7:57 pm
Well written and civil commentary on the joke known as the BCS poll. Who will it screw this fall? Stand by for the next fine program that gets poked. The good die young or get dumped on by the BCS.
Report this comment
Ed
March 28th, 2009
2:50 am
a “sickening look at us splurge?” Shame on OU for being too good. Simple equation 3 does not equal 2. Texas lost too. Tech lost, but was 11-1. OU was 11-1. They all beat each other.
Politics? That’s all Mack Brown is, a politician. He’s good at it too. He sweet talked you, Furman.
Report this comment
Atlanta to Austin
March 28th, 2009
3:36 am
In a world of low life scum do anything to win guys (meyer, stoops, petrino, spurrier, etc.) Mack Brown is a true class act. As an experienced SEC and newly educated Big 12 fan. I am aware of several things. Mack Brown gets recruits because Mack Brown is the best combination of a a sincerely good guy and a great coach in NCAA football right now. Texas and OU are the only big 12 teams who belong among the elite in the country and could regularly compete in a conference like the SEC without a problem. Ed is idiotic, Mack Brown is zero as a politician. After complaining about having to play U Michigan in the Rose Bowl a few years back and being unbelievably criticized (especially by the irrelevant Chad Henne) Mack Brown says nothing to campaign to the media. (They demolished U Michigan with roughly the same team they won the championship with in the following year, I wonder if he had a legit complaint, ED?). Also Texas and OU have high octane offenses capable of blowing any insufficient competition out by 50 points. In the SEC, a dominate team not named Florida doesn’t run a spread or score heavy offense, and therefore supperior competition often allows lower competition to stay close score wise. If he thought it helped, Stoops would run up the score on a pop warner team. FYI I attended 10 Texas games this year. Colt McCoy played 3 quarters of most of those games due to blowouts and Texas having class while Bob stoops called play action hail mairys for Bradford as OU was up 40 in the 4th quarter. Class is not a given and Mack Brown has it. Thank you Furman Bisher for reaching outside the Mr. College fball, Tony Barnhart, stretch from gainesville to nashville (football is played outside the SEC Tone). You are one of the few true non-sensationalist sports writers left out there. Keep eloquently telling it as it is and nothing more. Thanks Furman, look forward to Masters Week.
Report this comment
MB Assitant
March 28th, 2009
7:55 am
Great article. Mack is the best, behind DKR, then Muschamp.
Report this comment
Leland
March 28th, 2009
8:24 am
Dear Mr. FB–the sickening part of the Oklahoma method is your comment about it. Here’s why: when standards (criteria) are established for judging the merits of college football teams and teams play the game in accordance with those standards, it is sickening and ill informed to criticize them for it. Your pal, Leland
Report this comment
rush smith
March 28th, 2009
11:19 am
Furman-Always enjoy your column-about 30 years ago we had Coach Royal & Coach Broyles at Anniston Al QB Club-Coach Royal had just retired and at a young age (?51)When asked why since Texas had everything a coach wanted and he had already won a couple of Natl Championships-his reply-I love coaching, I even love practicing but kissing those 18 year old asses gets old in a hurry. I guess that’s one of those things about college football that hasn’t changed but the money sure is better.
Report this comment
Roy
March 28th, 2009
11:55 am
no one writing today can measure up to FB, the standard bearer of sports journalism.
Report this comment
Bo Williams
March 28th, 2009
12:30 pm
Furman, why did you have to bring up MB. We loved him at UNC and he broke our hearts. I doubt that he would have gone anywhere other than Texas. I still really like him, but Butch has done a great job at soothing our pain. I believe Mack still has a soft place in his heart for us.
Report this comment
pete
March 28th, 2009
4:24 pm
Leland,
Common sense would indicate the team that wins by ten points deserves to go to the championship game.Oklahoma is a bad joke.
Report this comment
dean
March 28th, 2009
8:13 pm
I’m impressed. Didn’t know a whole lot about Mack Brown. Sounds like a genuine good guy who wants to do things the right way. Much like coach Richt.
Report this comment
CJ
March 29th, 2009
2:41 pm
As an Atlanta transplant who has lived in Texas for the past 7 years, I have to say your article is “spot on”. Thanks, Mr. Bisher…I am so blessed to be able to read your articles online way out here!
Report this comment
Otto
March 30th, 2009
11:41 am
Mack Brown is a great guy and did get a fair shake at the title. If anything the SEC and others should adopt the Big 12 tie breaker system.
Report this comment
All I'm Saying Is...
March 30th, 2009
2:31 pm
“Don’t hate the player, hate the game. It’s not my fault I played the BCS/politics game and came out ahead…oops,…uh…I guess I came out ahead since we got to play Florida for the championship…Hmmm…now that I think about it after the fact, I’m not sure if I played either game well.” — Bob Stoops.
Report this comment
Mac
March 31st, 2009
8:49 am
I didn’t know Colt McCoy was from humble beginnings. Good. I’ll be even happier for him when the NFL showers him with millions.
Report this comment
Senility
March 31st, 2009
9:47 am
Hey Codger: Thanks for your opinion. Now go back to opining on what you know about: Gene Sarazen, manual typewriters, horse and buggies, etc. Football’s changed alot in the 50+ years since you went to j-school.
Report this comment
Senility
March 31st, 2009
9:51 am
Hey Codger: Thanks for your opinion. Now go back to opining on what you know about: Gene Sarazen, Bobby Jones, manual typewriters, horse and buggies, etc. Football’s changed alot in the 50+ years since you went to j-school.
Report this comment
Lash La Rue
April 1st, 2009
12:02 am
UGA should go after Jay Wright for Basketball Coach.
Report this comment
Otto
April 1st, 2009
10:16 am
Pete, Common sense would tell you the Big 12 South was a 3 way tie. Texas all but lost to Tx Tech. OU blew Tx Tech out and was thus ranked the highest of the 3 teams. Tx struggled against Ohio St. The Big 12 system worked and OU gave UF the toughest game of the year which is tough to say as an SEC fan.
Report this comment
fk austin
April 2nd, 2009
1:42 pm
Do you have the still pictures of the Darwin Holt – Chick Granning incident?
Report this comment
Allen Tothill
April 2nd, 2009
5:20 pm
Furman, thank you so much for writing the article about Coach Case. I grew up in Winston- Salem when Bones McKinney coached Wake Forest. I was a student at NCSU when coach Case was still there. My wife and I live in Atlanta now, we read your article aloud while having breakfast this morning. You reminded us of the great times we had in Reynolds Coliseum watching Wolfpack basketball! Thank you for bringing back these great memories, and for reminding us of the great tradition Coach Case established at NCSU, and his legacy in founding the modern day ACC. Best regards, Allen Tothill, NCSU class of ’65.
Report this comment
Mel Derrick
April 5th, 2009
10:08 am
Great column on Mack Brown. I was with him one night at a T
Report this comment
Mel Derrick
April 5th, 2009
10:18 am
Great column on Mack Brown. I was with him at a Tar Heel Blue get-together in Myrtle Beach when he admitted he planned to leave UNC, because his ambition was to win a national championship and there was no chance of that happening in Chapel Hill. Keep up the good work. One question: How is it that you hired me out of Wofford College in 1954, when you were sports editor of the Constitution, and I have been retired for 10 years and you are still typing sports? It ain’t fair. Mel Derrick.
Report this comment
griffdawg1
April 6th, 2009
7:18 am
Good writing but you failed to mention the questionable recruiting tactics used by Mack and his staff. Prostitutes and and drugs are the only thing luring recruits to texas. Just ask Lame Kitten, he’ll tell ya!!
Report this comment
Roy Tucker
April 6th, 2009
8:33 pm
Furman Bisher is still the best writer on the staff. His prose is never boring.
Report this comment
Keith Strawn
April 9th, 2009
7:28 am
Thanks, Mr. Bisher, for being passionate about your topics. You got me excited about this weekend, and I’m not even golf fan.
Report this comment
Reebok
April 9th, 2009
8:11 am
Thanks for bringing a sense of scope and history to this wonderful event, Mr. Bisher. But if you’re singling out non-Americans with a great chance to win, why not Padraic Harrington?
Report this comment
Michael Scharff
April 9th, 2009
12:34 pm
Mr. Bisher, here is an article on Mr. Ball from the Augusta Chronicle:
http://www.augusta.com/stories/2009/04/09/mas_517818.shtml
Report this comment
BLAZER
April 9th, 2009
1:26 pm
STILL THE BEST WRITER AT THE AJC.
Report this comment
MP
April 9th, 2009
8:47 pm
And 22 years later Greg Norman still get score better than Larry Mize! I wanted Norman to win so bad in 1987. I wanted Norman to win in 1996 but he faltered and Nick Faldo won. I wanted Norman to win in 1999 but Ballesteros got the better of him. It’s great to see them all still at it.
Report this comment
BS Patrol
April 9th, 2009
10:08 pm
I think you had better read it again ,MP.
Report this comment
JB
April 10th, 2009
7:53 am
I was there yesterday….I think it might be the crowd( a generational thing), but Norman was the draw yesterday, not Tiger. It was great……
Report this comment
JKitch
April 10th, 2009
8:44 am
Furman, The site of Seve heading back up 10 fairway is one of those moments that make the Masters a classic event like no other. Seve will always be one of my favorite golfers to watch there. I saw him do things there that I still can hardly believe. He could electrify the crowd and he would stalk that course like a beast when he was in contention. I wish he was still able to be there. There have been many golden eras in Masters lore and his time of glory is certainly one of them.
Report this comment
Tech82
April 10th, 2009
9:37 am
I would love to see Mize and Norman on the first page of the leader board all weekend but I don’t think their nerves will hold up as the course setup gets tougher.
Report this comment
My Eyes on Mize
April 10th, 2009
9:52 am
Nice read, Mr. Bisher, but don’t you remember Larry being in contention in ‘94 vs. Ollie and Lehman. I believe he was tied around the 13th hole, but finished three shots back.
Mize was my first interview ever as a journalist and my favorite golfer for a long while after that incredible ‘87 tournament (Didn’t hurt that we both hailed from Augusta and I grew up a Yellow Jacket fan).
P.S. Best wishes to Severiano!
Report this comment
wreckmaniac
April 10th, 2009
4:38 pm
As a Georgia native and Tech grad, I spent the 70’s and 80’s in North Carolina. You don’t know what the college game is until you live there.
I heard it pretty much as Mr Bisher reported it here. Case was the pioneer. You’ve never seen a conference as great as the ACC was when
Dean Smith, Lefty Drisell, Norm Sloan, Terry Holland, Bill Foster were all coaching there at the same time. It was a golden era.
Report this comment
Paschal Malone
April 12th, 2009
1:10 am
I’m in the Phillipines…..give me his number, I just want to hear that ND fighting Irish song
Yes, I’m an Irish catholic
Report this comment
The Big Bug
April 12th, 2009
9:01 pm
Now I wish I hadn’t left the TV to take the Easter basket to my grandaughter. I thought Perry had it sewn up. But heck, I left the Braves’ NL championship Sid Bream game about the 7th so there you go.
Report this comment
El Bravo
April 12th, 2009
9:54 pm
Mr. Bisher, two quick corrections. De Vicenzo did not have the Masters won. He would have tied to force a playoff but instead ended up finishing a shot behind due to te incorrect score. The actual quote by De Vicenzo was “What a stupid I am”. Cheers.
Report this comment
Roy
April 12th, 2009
9:57 pm
FB has said it all – no comments needed to cloud the imagery.
Report this comment
K R
April 12th, 2009
10:25 pm
Mr. Bisher, well played
Report this comment
DeltaDawg
April 12th, 2009
10:47 pm
This is why Bisher is still the best.
Report this comment
The Old Man
April 12th, 2009
11:44 pm
It was Easter Sunday at church, then a classic Masters on afternoon TV, for a native Georgian and Southern Baptist, it don’t get much better than that. Okay Lord, you can take me home now.
Report this comment
Charles Brannon
April 13th, 2009
12:57 am
According to the contemporaneous Sports Illustrated article in 1968, what Roberto de Vicenzo, who spoke very little English, said to the press was, “I am a stupid.”
Report this comment
spotman
April 13th, 2009
9:14 am
It is the players job to make sure the score card is correct. So it was of his own doing.
Report this comment
A terrific tournament, a terrible two holes for Kenny Perry | MrSEC.com
April 13th, 2009
9:21 am
[...] The AJC’s Furman Bisher writes what a day, what a Masters. [...]
Report this comment
» A terrific tournament, a terrible two holes for Kenny Perry John Clay’s Sidelines
April 13th, 2009
9:34 am
[...] The AJC’s Furman Bisher writes what a day, what a Masters. [...]
Report this comment
kclubmember
April 13th, 2009
11:45 am
The final round of the Masters in Augusta National yesterday was the greatest Sunday ever.There were so many sub-plots going on:Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson battling on every hole,Angel Cabrera,Kenny Perry,and Chad Campbell wrestling with nervousness on Sunday.GreatDrama!
Report this comment
Coastal Cavalier
April 13th, 2009
11:53 am
An important part of my Masters tradition is reading Mr. Bisher on Monday afterwards. And once again he does not disappoint. Another great one.
Report this comment
PMC
April 13th, 2009
12:16 pm
Well done Mr. Payne and co. The course has been Perfectly Contstructed the last 3 years… finally the weather cooperated and we were rewarded with fantastic golf. The changes made with the new permanent structures out on the course were excellent. An absolutely fantastic weekend of major golf and beautiful weather.
Report this comment
jay
April 13th, 2009
12:24 pm
its about time that justice was done. the master was taking away from a man that could not speak english.good day for me.
Report this comment
dostadawg2
April 13th, 2009
3:08 pm
Advice to Masters
Leave Allister McKenzie and Bobby Jone’s masterpiece alone.
Buy an adjacent piece of property and build a stadium course with
bleachers and skyboxes, and sell another 100,000 tickets. Have Ticketmaster and Stub Hubb sell the badges for thousands of dollars each(which they are already doing online; wonder who the “patrons” are contributing these?) Build a couple more of the WalMart souvenier shops (like the one beside No. 1). Suggest over by No. 5 so us ol’ patrons won’t have to fight the crowds to get to the one over by No. 1.
I have been to the Masters for several decades and it has become a circus.
It’s all about the greed and the money.
I now think the Open is the only Major, all the rest are driven by Capitalism.
Report this comment
H1022
April 13th, 2009
8:25 pm
This years’ Masters was one of the best ever. I hated to see anyone lose.
I have been racking my old brain all day. Someone please tell me who was the tall golfer from Rome or Gainesville who kept Roberto’s score card? I just can’t remember.
Report this comment
wallymac
April 13th, 2009
9:11 pm
Are you speaking of Tommy Aaron?
Report this comment
Charles Brannon
April 14th, 2009
12:11 am
I stand corrected. It took a while to find it, but de Vicenzo’s quote was, “I play golf all over the world for 30 years, and now all I can think of is what a stupid I am to be wrong in this wonderful tournament.”
Report this comment
GT71
April 14th, 2009
6:49 am
Kenny Perry may have ‘tired’, but he did certainly ‘choke’. Big time. But somehow no one wants to say it. And Mr. Campbell, you have a 4 foot putt to keep in the game. You leave it right. That, too, was a ‘choke’. But who can blame them? It’s the Masters and only ‘masters’ should win. These 2 journeymen golfers proved it by wilting under the pressure, siezed by the moment, not seizing it. The winner? Yep, the guy who didn’t lose it. Great day, nice article, so-so tournament.
Report this comment
noel habib
April 14th, 2009
7:16 am
de Vicenzo was robbed of a playoff appearance against Goalby in “68 by Augusta National officials and Tommy Aaron, both who conspired to stop a foreigner from winning the tournament. Aaron and Masters officials, who had similar, but not exactly the same, reasons to hate the Argentine– one of which was the fact that Argentina had welcomed and hidden some of the most heinous Nazi criminals– both knew that de Vicenzo’s lack of English would make him easy prey for the absurd and archaic formality of players keeping their own score, an outrageous rule that should have been abolished in every golf tournament the first day their was ever an official on the golf course. Do basketball players have to report the final score at the end of the game? And if incorrect, have to forfeit, for example, a SEC game? Aaron gave de Vicenzo a 4 on the 17th, when he had actually scored a game-changing birdie. Isn’t that interesting. Aaron WORSENED de Vicenzo’s score, and at the most critical time of the tourney. Human error? Guess again. Everyone on the planet following golf then, not only knew the score of every player on top of the leaderboard, but would never have forgotten one the biggest moments in the entire day. de Vincezo’s birdie on 17 was absolutely huge. And why was Aaron “taking care” of de Vicenzo’s scorecard? Master’officials probably assured de Vicenzo that “we’ll take care it.” They took care of him alright. Can you imagine if Ben Crenshaw had had a mistake on his card? He would have been gently taken aside and given a few minutes to correct it, and no one would have been the wiser.
Report this comment
jay
April 14th, 2009
10:34 am
thank you noel habib know one could have said its better,,,,,
Report this comment
All I'm Saying Is...
April 14th, 2009
12:16 pm
Noel Habib and Jay: Get a clue. You show your ignorance of golf or stupidity (if you know the game and still stand by Noel’s post). You may not agree with the rules of golf but they have been that way for over 130 years. Read and learn:
1) In golf, my playing partner keeps my score and I keep his. However, I also keep my own score hole-by-hole and compare it to what my playing partner has giving me the chance to correct his error. I can compare results after each hole and then again at the end of the round. By signing the scorecard at the end of the round, I am agreeing that what my playing partner has tabulated is right. I don’t have to sign unless we agree so I have the ultimate opportunity to correct any error. This method — based on math not a command of English — has nothing whatsoever to do with ethnicity, race, country of origin, politics, etc. Furthermore, Roberto De Vicenzo never once blamed anyone else and received in 1970 the Bob Jones Award from the USGA for his sportsmanship and classy behavior.
2) Gary Player, a South African and therefore a ‘foreigner’, won his first Masters in 1961 well before Roberto’s opportunity so there was no reason for anyone to conspire to prevent a foreigner from winning.
3) Roberto would have qualified for a playoff if not for the scorecard error. Back in those days, a playoff meant 18 holes the next day. So we cannot assume he would have won the playoff.
I guess Furman Bisher does his best but either he or his editors continually let him file stories with incorrect facts which undermine FBs credibility — Perry didn’t ‘tire’ in the playoff: he choked over the last two holes of his 4th round blowing it with bogey’s at 17 (a terrible approach shot to the green from the middle of the fairway followed by one of the worst chip shots ever) and 18 (a tee shot into the fairway bunker followed by a lousy third shot and missing a 15 foot putt to win) and he choked in the playoff, the Green Jacket was not De Vicenzo’s to give to Goalby as they would have had to play 18 the next day, and De Vicenzo is ultimately responsible for his scorecard so any error is on him and is of his doing.
Report this comment
David Gardner
April 14th, 2009
5:41 pm
It was a great tournament. When Cabrera sliced his drive into the woods on the first playoff hole, I thought he was out of it.
Report this comment
Tom Corish
April 15th, 2009
11:48 pm
Thanks, Furman. You write with such ease and brevity. Your description of this classic Masters will be copied and quoted long after we have passed. Keep on keeping on!
Report this comment
Tom Johnson
April 17th, 2009
10:13 pm
Furman, I have loved your column for 30+ yrs, but you are now showing that you are a true “Homer”. I would not be overly concerned either under normal circumstances. However, nothing is normal! Bobby, for some incredibly inane reason, is giving these bullpen pitchers way too long to come into a groove. They cost us last year(check the blown saves), and they look absolutely Class A’ish this year. I know it is early, but if he doesn’t run the current pen out of Atlanta, he will be looking at a 70-75 win season which puts us in 4th or 5th place in the division. He loves being loyal to his players, but when they consistantly go out and under acheive, it is time for the loyalty to end. I would like to know if other Atlantans feel the same as I do. Thank you.
Report this comment
intellibird
April 17th, 2009
11:45 pm
Agree with Tom Johnson. How about bringing up the Hanson kid and/or Reyes and using somebody (Kawakami/Vasquez) for middle relief. Even Mike Gonzalaez has been giving me indigestion everytime he pitches. Pitchers need to throw strikes and please, for the love of G*D, would our batters please stop swinging at first pitches.
We needed base runners in the 9th inning and every idiot at the plate is swinging away. We need to hold Terry Pendelton and Rodger whatever accountable.
Report this comment
The Grinch
April 18th, 2009
12:56 am
I agree with you in principle, Mr. Bisher; the WBC/Selig both need to disappear and the Braves aren’t hopeless. In fact, I think they’ll win the division if Bobby leaves Moylan alone for a bit and they trade for a middle reliever. However, I feel the need to point out a Dolphin is a mammal, not a fish (unless you’re referring to the Mahi Mahi, a.k.a. Dolphin…but you weren’t).
Report this comment
The Grinch
April 18th, 2009
1:25 am
I apologize, sir; that came across much snarkier than I intended. Your journalistic skills are beyond reproach. I typed it with a smile but it probably didn’t come across that way.
Report this comment
BeachGaBulldog
April 18th, 2009
1:59 am
As far as that WBC garbage, I didn’t watch one second of it. In fact, I wish it would go away forever. As for the Braves, I will first say that I have NEVER been a fan of Bobby Cox. He doesn’t know how to handle a pitching staff, and I have been saying that ever since Game 6 of the 1991 World Series against Minnesota. Alejandro Pena is pitching great, and “genius” decides to bring in Charlie “Creampuff” Leibrandt to face Kirby Puckett. I was sitting with a bunch of friends who weren’t big baseball fans and I told them, “We just lost this game”. I had seen enough of both players to know that Kirby would crush the ball, and he did. Game over. Ever since then, I have hated Bobby Cox.
He is definitely way too loyal to his players. Another thing he does is he will bring in someone like Boyer who will get his brains beaten in(for Christ’s sake, a 40 ERA), and the next night Cox will bring him out again. The next game he will do it again. And don’t get me started on Chipper. A sore thumb? Are you &%%^*^ kidding me? I knew he wouldn’t go the first week of the season without taking himself out of a game.
Report this comment
1995BRAVESHAD BROTHAS WORLDCHAMPS
April 18th, 2009
8:04 am
FOR ALL YOU HICKS WHO WERE DOGGING TERRANCE MOORE ABOUT THE BRAVES NEED MORE BROTHERS ON THE TEAM REMEMBER 1995 HELLO.
PHILLY GOT RYAN HOWARD AND MVP JIMMY ROLLINS THEY BROTHERS AND PHILLY ARE THE WORLD CHAMPS.
YOU SEE WITH THESE KLAN TEAMS WEVE BEEN PLAYING WITH HAS GOTTEN US NOTHING
Report this comment
ND
April 18th, 2009
8:26 am
1995BRAVESHAD…You are an idiot.
Report this comment
richbrave
April 18th, 2009
8:41 am
The sky is falling. The sky is falling. Thanks for pointing out the obvious BISHER.
Report this comment
Greg
April 18th, 2009
8:42 am
You summed it up perfectly. This is a 500 team at best. One or two injures like they always have…can’t even get through 10 games… with the wrong people and they are less than 500….punch and judy with terrible relief pitching is not a formula for success.
Report this comment
turkey
April 18th, 2009
9:51 am
If Fredi comes back to Atlanta not only his entire coaching staff but the Marlin scouts also have to be here. Except for McCann and Francoeur the pickings are slim. Mark it. The Braves will finish no higher than 4th.
Report this comment
BravesAreDone
April 18th, 2009
10:31 am
It’s amazing how they keep counting on Chipper Jones…well if Chipper will just stay healthy blah blah blah…the man does NOT stay healthy through a season EVER anymore. Then they give him a huge contract. The team has no cleanup hitter, only a couple of decent to good starting pitchers and a scary bullpen at best. And oh yeah they don’t have a real leadoff hitter either. Plus a center fielder obviously not yet ready for the bigs on both defense and offense. I gave up on this team before the season started after the poor offseason moves.
Report this comment
Dr. Phil
April 18th, 2009
10:37 am
Bud Selig is the “Michael Adams” of baseball, and the WBC is his version of the “UGA Foundation.” I spent a week watching the Braves in Florida and believed that they were going to have a chance at post-season play. I am not so sure now. Turner Field is a beautiful place, and the Braves will play some good baseball at times this season. I dropped my hundred dollars there last week, and that will do it for a while.
Report this comment
Braves73
April 18th, 2009
11:27 am
Tom Johnson – You my friend, are absolutely correct. Bobby is TOO loyal to his players, even to the point of collapse. The bullpen was and still is a HUGE concern for this years team. The need to blow it up, and start over right now while the season has just begun. If it were up to me, I would keep a short leash on Gonzalez as closer and mix in Soriaon (while keeping his 8th inning duties). Moylan will be alright, he just can’t pitch on back to back nights…yet. Our main concern will be the 5th & 6th inning/spot. Buddy is ok at that spot, but Bennett, O’flaherty, Boyer, Campillo all need to go. They have the ability to make these changes with guys at AAA that can fill these spots. They were impressed with Medlin, they have Acosta (who is an upgrade in my opinion, and Charlie Morton. PLEASE DON’T WAIT UNTIL IT’S TOO LATE!
Report this comment
Mitch
April 18th, 2009
7:12 pm
While I know baseball is 162 games, and we have thus far only played eleven, if it isn’t yet time to “panic”, the time has come for definite “concern”.
Chipper is out. (Again) Yunel is injured, the bullpen looks extremely vulnerable, and the team ERA is higher than the national debt.
Yes, I remember 1992, when the team was seven games out of first place, and in last place, after a loss in Philadelphia, in late
May. We went to New York, spanked the then hapless Mets twice, and were on our way. (Shows you I’ve been a Braves fan for a long time if I remember that).
The problem now is, that except for Washington, we have three other teams in our division that are capable of making the postseason. The Marlins look very good. The Mets have a lot of talent, and the Phillies are the World Champs. I do not think this Braves team can park itself 9 1-2 games out of first in July as we did in 1991, and ten games out of first in August, as we did in 1993, and rally to make the postseason. The reason? We dont have Greg Maddux, John Smoltz, and Tom Glavine in their primes anymore. (We technically still have Tom, but who knows if he will ever pitch again, and if he does, he’s 43 years old) We used to do things like win thirteen games in a row (In 1992) or fifty five out of our last eighty three games, (In 1991) This team, would need to climb the mountain with consistent play all season, and not, bad for one half, and then a burning hot streak. I dont think this team will go on those kinds of streaks anymore. We are a potentially good club, but not like that.
I think we need to turn it around soon. Yes, it’s early, but we need to stand up to the big boys, and play well against the Mets and Phils and home, and at least, 500 on the road. The way this team will make the wild card is to do things like win in the high 40s to 50 wins at home,and play 500 on the road. If we dont do that, we wont make it.
Okay, long post. I’m done. Early, yes. Too early to “panic”? Probably. Not too early, however, to be “concerned”. We need to play better, and soon.
Mitch
Report this comment
7
April 18th, 2009
8:19 pm
It may be to early for you Mr Bisher but the Braves are the same as last 3 years. Same BS!
Time for Cox to retire and bring in Ned Yost and Leo Mazzone back. Mr Wren has proved that he’s not the right man for the job. This is the same crap over and over.
Report this comment
robert
April 18th, 2009
9:16 pm
Think goodness for Washington, the braves will have more losses than every other team in national league.At least 90-95 losses!
Report this comment
Charlie
April 18th, 2009
9:23 pm
No…it’s not time to panic yet. With this collection of ball players, there will (always) be plenty of time for that. Schafer is definitely NOT ready to play at this level. He is “deer in the headlights” at the plate, a made-to-order rally killer at the plate. He’s surely not ready to be a starter at this level. His defense is poor. Lots of balls over his head, and then he heads (too late)into the wall. Really poor, defensively. He’s a liability with the glove, as Kelly Johnson continues to be. (His “sun” excuse was just that…an excuse for choking a sure DP). The Braves bullpen is a disaster. That includes Mike Gonzales…terrible mechanics…too many moving parts…can’t field his position, falling so hard to the 3rd base side. His commmand and control is shakey. He slows his body down so much, he telegraphs his off speed stuff. Worst part is, he’s supposed to be the best of this bullpen. Chipper…since 2003 he’s perpetually hurt. He might as well be a coach. The Braves are a poor collection of mediocre talent. If they are lucky, they will finish ahead of the Nationals. Everyone else in the division will pound on them. It’s going to be a long season. To be competitive with the players the Braves have, well, that’s impossible. Once again this year, I purchased MLB Extra Innings package, to watch Braves’ games. Bad move. I won’t make that mistake again.
Report this comment
TROTTINGHOME
April 18th, 2009
9:45 pm
it’s over boys and girls
Report this comment
Pat
April 18th, 2009
9:48 pm
My biggest concern is that the Braves lack discipline. They are not disciplined at the plate and, in the field, often failed to make the routine plays (see Kelly Johnson and Garret Anderson). We never even consider trying to manufacture a run, the Braves always just sit back and wait for someone to try and hit a home run. The bullpen is a disaster–that goes without saying. But somewhere, somehow, someone take a walk, steal a base, sacrifice to third. Do the little things that good teams do to win.
Report this comment
Arthur
April 18th, 2009
9:54 pm
Mr. Bisher,
I hope you are right. However consider the following: Gonzales, Sorieno, and Moylan are all nursing repaired arms. Moylan has pitched in 6 of the last ten games. Do Cox and McDowell need a calculator? We lack good right handed power, especially when Chipper is out. We have a rookie center fielder who lacks defensive and offensive experience. He needs a year at triple A. Blanco has more experience and is better in both categories. Our weaknesses are obvious? Why do we see so much left handed pitching?? Duh. We have so many left handed batters. KJ is a fair hitter, but a terrible clutch fielder, Prado is better. Prado is also a right handed bat.
At this moment we have a great AAA team.
Love your articles, but do not agree this time?
Just curious, how old are you??
Arthur
Report this comment
Kenny Gannon
April 18th, 2009
11:16 pm
I know it’s early but I bet if you check the record books you’ll find that teams that start out of the gate hot like the Marlins often win their divisions and do very well. And teams like the Braves who start out mediocre and now losing 5 straight often continue in that mediocre mode. They’re too injury prone and their bullpen is a mess. It’s not Cox’s fault but I sure wish he’d retire. Nothing will change till he does. This is another weak team with no power and no bullpen. Looks centerfield is iffy too. This team lacks talent. They may have heart but they are a third tier team. As many are saying, thank goodness for the Nationals.
Report this comment
Skip Van Weiren
April 19th, 2009
2:58 am
Too early to panic kids. We only don’t have a real cleanup hitter, no bullpen or manager that realizes baseball is not played like it was in 1991. Why is everyone so nervous? Right? Uh….. right?
Report this comment
Ben
April 19th, 2009
5:38 am
The World Baseball Classic is and was awesome.
Report this comment
Ben
April 19th, 2009
5:39 am
But I think I agree with everything else you were saying, Mr. Bisher.
Report this comment
jc_dawgs
April 19th, 2009
7:07 am
You want to hear why it is far from over?
Here is why…..
Lowe…Jurjjens…Vasquez…Hanson and Hudson.
That will be our rotation in August and I’d put it up against any in the majors.
If the Braves can just hang in there and not fall too far back before then…they could make a run.
It’s all about pitching.
Report this comment
WILLSTER
April 19th, 2009
7:17 am
ISAID BEFORE THE FIRST PITCH OF THE 09 SEASON THE BRAVES WOULD FINISH 4TH ,I WAS RIGHT AS USUAL, THE BRAVES PAY CHIPPER 40 MILLION TO PLAY 1OO GAMES,BUT THEY CANT PAY SMOLTZ 5MILLION TO REHAB ARM,REMBER THESE DATES JUNE 28,29.30 2009 THIS IS WHEN THE REDSOX INVADE TURNER FIELD IGUARANTEE SMOLTZ WILL BE HERE , IGUARANTEE HE WILL BEAT THE SORRY A SS BRAVES, FIRE FRANK WREN, AND BOBBY COX/
Report this comment
WILLSTER
April 19th, 2009
7:18 am
Enter HIRE BACK LEO MAZZONEyour comments here
Report this comment
fieldofdreams
April 19th, 2009
8:34 am
I’m not worried, because I never expected anything from these mediocre bums. I’m trying to stay in Frank Wren’s court, but apparently he’s WREN OVER HIS HEAD. This season becomes interesting, however, when: 1. Braves trade several current starters for Jake Peavy. Kelly Johnson is a stiff, as are Jeff Francoeur, Matt Diaz, and Garret Anderson. Feel free to toss in Jojo Reyes. 2. Promote Jason Heyward and Tommy Hanson immediately. 3. Offer Chipper a trade to a contender by mid-season. Someone in the AMERICAN LEAGUE can use a brilliant hitter, who can no longer stand the day to day stress of playing the field. Not only that, Chipper is a cork in the bottle of whatever new identity the Braves will assume. The team needs to move on. 4. Politely inform Mr. Cox that his services are no longer needed. This is an ugly situation that could turn disastrous, if somebody doesn’t move, and move quick.
Report this comment
chump Change
April 19th, 2009
8:59 am
We may not look like a discount team,but our performance on the feild prove’s it.The braves need to spend some money.
Report this comment
pete
April 19th, 2009
9:21 am
BRING BACK THE CRACKERS!
Report this comment
Braves fan from Curacao
April 19th, 2009
9:59 am
The Braves have to get rid of Jo-Jo Reyes. He’s no good. The Braves made a right decision to let Boyer go. He was a total liability. Bring up Tommy Hanson. Let’s try to bounce back and beat the Marlins and Phillies.
Report this comment
Ben
April 19th, 2009
10:01 am
I guess we’re not watching the same player. I saw him strike out against the Marlins on balls that were in the left handers batter box on two pitches. I don’t think he could have hit those balls with a fishing pole.
Report this comment
1995BRAVESHAD BROTHAS WORLDCHAMPS
April 19th, 2009
10:02 am
ONCE AGAIN TERRENCE MOORE WAS RIGHT BRING BACK EDGAR JERMAINE DYE SHEFFIELD JD.DREW ANDREW JONES MARK LEMKE KEVIN MILLWOOD. ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN THIS PIECE OF CRAP THAT`S SO-CALLED PLAYING.
CHIPPER LARRY JONES YOU MIGHT AS WELL GONE UP TO BOSTON WITH JOHN SMOLTZ,CAUSE THE BRAVES ARE SHOT TO HELL.
Report this comment
Ed
April 19th, 2009
10:03 am
1991 is 18 years ago. Why do they continue paying Pendleton? Why do they have to go to Texas to find hitting instruction? Please keep Diaz in left field and use Anderson as the hitting coach.
Report this comment
John
April 19th, 2009
10:49 am
New owner, new GM,new field manager– these are the only answers to the current, intractable quagmire.
Report this comment
Braves73
April 19th, 2009
11:02 am
I agree with all of the posts in reference to “it being too early to press the panic button”, BUT there are clear signs that need to be addressed RIGHT NOW! If Bobby thinks that things will just “work themselves out”, then we will be in 4th place with very little chance of recovery. The challenge with Bobby is this, it’s not “the Braves of old” anymore (that had enough veteran talent/winners/proven commodities for him to take a “sit back metality”). Bobby is no longer suited this type of team, what I mean by that is we need a youn, aggressive manager, that can do more with less. A manager that will not waiver on making tough decisions with veterans and put the best players on the field for success. It’s time for change.
Report this comment
Poorbrave
April 19th, 2009
11:07 am
If you were (GM) building a major league team which player (star) on the Braves team would you pick to build your team around? Think about it and give your answer. 1….2. 3…
Report this comment
Braves73
April 19th, 2009
11:21 am
Poorbrave – 1.)Jordan Schafer – Before the whole steriod issue he was one the highest ranking players in the Braves system…he can have an immediate impact with his speed, defense, and eventually will be a leadoff hitter that will set the table for the rest of the offense. Upside +++++
2.) Tommy Hanson – Excellent (number 1 starter) stuff, but needs innings/seasoning in order to “learn how to pitch” and avoid being rushed to the majors Upside – unlimited
3.) Jason Heyward – All the tools needed to be successful in the majors, should be on the club right now, needs to be promoted ASAP.
Report this comment
Toearlytopanicbravefan
April 19th, 2009
11:55 am
I am in concurrence with most of the bloggers. Bobby Cox should consider retirement, (at least from th e braves!). Chipper needs to be traded to the American League where he doesn’t need to field the ball. He can still hit at least sometimes from the left side of the plate. He never could really hit well from the right. (I know he is the defending NL batting champ and he has been a terrific switch hitter.) The bullpen is in dissarray again. Bobby seemed confused in the Florida meltdown. He did not appear to know who he wanted called into the game. Not that it would have made a real difference! Jarrett Anderson should have retired with the Angels. Bring in the brothers (that can play). Acosta in the bullpen might help. Until major changes happen I will be joining Bobby Cox with a wait and see what happens attitude.
Report this comment
southbeachdietfreak
April 19th, 2009
12:01 pm
Ok, guys.
It may not be time to panic, but I feel compelled to point out some obvious things.
This team does not have the depth to be a condtender. Consider that when their best players get hurt, they get mired in a losing streak. Additionally, the bullpen is showing its true form yet again at its inablility to get people out. This is not a stab at anyone’s heart, whether they’re putting forth the effort, but the fact is, this team is not built to be a playoff team. If there’s anyone to blame, the front office is the culprit. For whatever reason (recession, or just plain greed) the management has seen fit to tighten their belts, preventing the Braves from being able to compete for quality players, something they’re sufficiently lacking in.
I think Bobby Cox is a good manager. I think his players are doing their best…. but I think management needs to step up and provide more to payroll in order to be able to compete for top-level talent. Otherwise, I think this team is in for several more underachieving seasons. Just my observation.
Report this comment
Reality
April 19th, 2009
12:27 pm
And the undisputed winner of the internet poster with the lowest I.Q. goes to 1995Braveshad…..
Hey moron, turn off your cap locks key.
Report this comment
Observation
April 19th, 2009
12:28 pm
In other news, Chipper Jones hurt himself sleeping today. He’ll be out another 4 weeks.
Report this comment
braves70
April 19th, 2009
12:58 pm
The sad part to me is that the Braves are now like a stale, outdated pastry item. This is essentially the same movie we have seen for the last four years and nobody is willing to change things. I for one have grown quite tired of seeing reruns of poor decisions by Cox, quirk injuries to Chipper, a bullpen full of insufficient talent, and a front office that just repeats the same mistakes. I would like to thank Cox, Chipper, Glavine, Schuerholz & Wren for their past glories and efforts but kindly ask them all to move on somewhere else. We need a new look and a new direction.
Report this comment
alsim
April 19th, 2009
1:16 pm
It’s beginning to look a lot like 2008…
when does football start?
.
Report this comment
Dorothy Davis
April 19th, 2009
1:19 pm
It is a fact that Bobby Cox does not have a clue about pitching. He continues to bring in the same pitchers that cost us game after game. And ignores the ones that have a decent record. Whats with that? As for saying that the team cannot win without Chipper in the lineup, you might as well get used to losing. Chipper’s body is not in baseball shape, for whatever reason, and he will be out with injurys all season long. He has just not put in the work he needed to play a full season. I have been a Braves fan forever, but realize that it is time for Bobby to go and bring up some young talent to turn things around this year.
Report this comment
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 19th, 2009
2:17 pm
This column was a couple of days ago but things don’t really look any better now than they did then.
Report this comment
The Wren and Stimpy Show
April 19th, 2009
2:48 pm
Can anybody second the fact that we need Prado in as an everyday player. He is our Mark Derosa of the team we need to find him playing time no matter what.
Report this comment
D.W.
April 20th, 2009
9:10 am
Sorry Furman, I disagree. I knew the Braves were going to be the same old Braves of the last few years after the 3rd game of the season. They played like the punks they have become. Over the past few years, they’ve allowed good teams to punk them out time and time again and things have not changed and won’t change until some changes are made. They Braves need a new strong leader, not a cheerleader in the dugout.
Report this comment
Kelley
April 20th, 2009
9:55 am
Who suggested to use Vazquez for middle relief? Didn’t he strike out 8 yesterday? Isn’t he like second in the NL in strikeouts?
Those of you calling for Hanson, I think you will get your wish sooner than later.
I agree totally, way too early to panic. I wasn’t surprised at how well the Marlins played, I heard Bobby in an interview in spring training raving about their pitching, and yes, I for one thinks Bobby sure knows what he is talking about.
Anyone else notice that the Braves do better w/ Chipper? Let’s pray he stays healthy, as relevant a term as that may be for Chipper.
Report this comment
shelby dawkins
April 20th, 2009
10:37 am
The Marlins showed right away what kind of team this is. When will the Braves ever realize that they play every game with us like it’s the seventh game of the World Series? Dont they remember 1997? This team
has totally given up! I feel betrayed and will consider cancelling my MLB package too.
Report this comment
Skeezix
April 20th, 2009
11:23 am
We have a mediocre team and we don’t need 100 more games to figure that out. Why? Because the starting rotation is at best #3, but more likely #4 or #5, in the division. The bully is just awful. You can’t win without a strong bully. Couple that with an average offense and we are in for another long, frustrating season.
Report this comment
Knuckle Sandwich
April 20th, 2009
1:33 pm
intellibird…or should I say dumbassbird…I don’t know if you have noticed, but Vasquez near the top of the NL in strikeouts and could be considered the Ace of our staff at this current time. You don’t move a pitcher like that to the bullpen. Also, I saw Tommy Hanson pitch in Gwinnett yesterday and he was very hittable. I’m not saying he won’t be in our rotation this year, but he has some work to do.
Report this comment
Baba O'Riley
April 20th, 2009
1:35 pm
Marlins have a great scouting dept; not so much player development. I can think of only 3 guys on that team drafted by Florida (Johnson, Hermida, Volstad). The rest were acquired by trade or from the scrapheap (Rule 5). They have an outstanding roster, although I think their faulty bullpen, below average defense, and their penchant for striking out will come back to haunt them. They are not off to a fantastic start because of Fredi Gonzalez. You can thank their scouting department for their success. They should have been swept by Washington, if not for the Nats inability to hold a 9th inning lead. I think the Marlin balloon will start leaking helium soon.
Report this comment
PMC
April 20th, 2009
2:43 pm
I disagree. Last year the braves were a below .500 team plagued with injury problems and lack of consistancy.
Two weeks in nothing has changed and the division has improved.
They made some improvements in the offseason but it’s not going to be enough to win more than 85 and that’s not going to cut it.
Report this comment
frozen rope
April 20th, 2009
6:06 pm
Skeesix, WTH is “the bully”? Lame dude.
Report this comment
frozen rope
April 20th, 2009
6:10 pm
Where are the guys that need to be in the bullpen? ie Morton, Reyes. How did we select the bunch of no strikes in there now?
Report this comment
skeezix
April 20th, 2009
6:43 pm
What’s bully? Okay….Not using it in the context of the ‘mean playground bully’. Bully’s also a baseball term used by some players/broadcasters, and yes some fans like me, for the bullpen.
Report this comment
Tman
April 21st, 2009
12:47 am
I agree with turkey. Bring Freddy Gonzales here, his staff and the Marlins scouts!! In the mean time, get a different hitting coach and please bring Mazzone back! There’s a rumor he’s available and we have not won the division since he left. Also, in the mean time, drop the retread middle relievers from last year. Bennett is a choke artist, gladly Boyer’s gone and who the hell is O’Flaherty??
Report this comment
Chuck Uga
April 22nd, 2009
12:05 am
Furman, you’ve got to be kidding. The Braves are a joke as well as that well-past-retirement-time manager Cox. Cox has LOST IT. Puts in #1 reliever Soriano to close a game that the Braves have already LOST instead of putting him in to close a game they are LEADING. The old man is SENILE. Kind of like your article! The Braves are DONE for 2009. Plus they can’t seem to wake up to the fact that Boyer, Carlile and Moylan are PATHETIC. Book it…this season is OVER. They will finish 20-25 games below .500.
Report this comment
Bill Donohoo
April 22nd, 2009
3:07 pm
The Braves are at best a 500 club. I agree with most of the comments. When was the last time we drafted a first line pitcher. Almost all of our great pitching prospects have failed at the Major League level.
Also, it seems we are happy to have a journeyman first baseman with no power becaue he is signed for three more years.
Kelly Johnson is just too streaky. He looks great for 5 or 6 games then disappears.
The Braves have very little power and not enough high batting average players to make up for the lack of power.Also,it sure seems we lack those “clutch” players.
On top of that Pete, Ernie and Skip are now all gone.
Maybe Schurholtz should re read his book and reshape the organization again.
Report this comment
gg
April 22nd, 2009
3:44 pm
time for coc to go….excuse after excuse after excuse……
Report this comment
Gaylon Rush
April 22nd, 2009
5:04 pm
Relief staff overall is a disaster. If Boyer is a major league pitcher I’m a jet airline pilot. Had no business in the majors. Moylan so inconsistent…Starters are making enough money to pitch more than 6 0r 7 innings, less in some cases.
Report this comment
richbrave
April 23rd, 2009
12:10 am
Just posted up stats on the other half of the RENTERIA trade after JURJJENS’ stunning shutout performance tonight. GORKYS HERNANDEZ: 51 AB with a .373 AVG in AA MISSISSIPPI. 9 BB and 10 SO with only 1 error. Sweet. Maybe FRANK WREN is not as inept as many here think. That deal sure left me with egg on my face.
Report this comment
Godzilla
April 23rd, 2009
5:14 am
Furman Bisher is a great man. I remember back in the seventies when the Braves were horribile, Furman had some extra braves tickets. He went to cumberland mall and put the tickets under his wiper blade. He left three, when he came out he had about ten more! And then he wrote about it. It was about the time everyone started putting bags on their head. Furman got us through it. He is a real Georgia treasure. Just like the Braves.
Report this comment
Ben
April 23rd, 2009
9:20 am
Furman, it doesn’t have to be doom and gloom but some accountability for a wretched offense and some EPIC bullpen meltdowns would be nice. The Braves have always had it easy, comparatively, in the local media. The Yanks have only 2 wins more than the Braves right now and the headlines are already SCATHING. I’m not saying the Braves deserve that kind of treatment but they do deserve some harsh criticism because these games can be the difference in finishing in the Wild Card spot and 3 games out of it. They all count.
Report this comment
heybud
April 23rd, 2009
10:04 pm
In addition to not making the Pro Football Hall of Fame (a travesty in my opinion and in the opinion of practically every long-standing Falcon fan), not many people know that when Arthur Blank took over the Falcons organization, he distanced “his” organization from much of the Falcons’ past history.
This distancing includes outstanding representatives of the organization like Tommy Nobis and many, many others. And this year Jack Ragsdale, long-time head of ticket sales for the Falcons, finally threw in the towel.
Unfortunately, these stories never find their way into the newspaper or into the public consciousness.
Arthur Blank has done some good things for Atlanta, but distancing “his” current organization (the Atlanta Falcons franchise) from quality people like Tommy Nobis is not among them.
From what I understand, Tommy merely suggested that maybe it wasn’t the best idea in the world for Arthur Blank to be down on the field at the conclusion of Falcons games. Whether that had anything to do with the fact that Tommy no longer has a position with the Falcons is the reason or not, no one knows, but it possibly did contribute to it.
There are a number of Falcon fans that would prefer that Arthur Blank not go down on the field at the end of games. Walking around the perimeter of the stadium and greeting fans from the field prior to the start of a game is fine, but let the Jerry Jones’ go down on the field. Stay in your suite. The only possible reason that Arthur Blank should be on the field following the end of a game is to accept the Lombardi Trophy.
Tommy Nobis is the best player the Atlanta Falcons have ever had, and he and Warrick Dunn are probably the best humanitarian players the team has ever had as well.
I remember Randy Johnson and Bob Berry playing QB for the Falcons. It’s sad that Randy’s life took the path that it did, but maybe he is learning something from his travails and will perhaps be able to steer someone else away from the direction he took.
Thanks for another fine article about the past, Furman. Thanks for keeping the memories alive.
Report this comment
H1022
April 24th, 2009
12:38 am
I thought Nick Rassas from Notre Dame was the Falcon’s second choice. I am getting too old.
Report this comment
bgarcia
April 24th, 2009
6:01 am
Once again, a beautifully written article. Mr Bisher, you are a rare bird.
Tommy Nobis deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. I am disappointed that Mr Blank has not used his influence to give Tommy the honor that he has earned.
Report this comment
Reebok
April 24th, 2009
7:52 am
Brilliant column, compassionately expressed. Thanks, Mr. Bisher.
Report this comment
tixholdersince66
April 24th, 2009
11:08 am
Nobis was All World on a pretty crappy team. I remember the hit he put on Tarkenton to end the game, on our first Monday Night win. I agree that Blank should embrace the former players and followers, as we supported many horrible years by buying season tickets before the Dome became a hip hop arena. Continual price increases to long term fans to subsidize the $10.00 seats is no way to show any appreciation to us. ( I know we were under league average, but overpaid for the product being sold). BTW, I dropped my 4 tickets last year after 41 years of support. I still watch all the games, as I am a true Falcoholic. Must say the beer is cheaper and the restroom cleaner at my place. Go Falcons and let’s not forget the past legends. Another great column Furman!
Report this comment
**Frederick(Bailey)Douglass**
April 24th, 2009
11:49 am
Very good and timely Bisher. THESE are the stories that are yours to write. Give us some history and context on the Birds (Hawks, Falcons) and the Braves. Real fans appreciate your knowledge and wisdom.
Report this comment
Rocky Redwood
April 24th, 2009
12:29 pm
If I owned a team I’d be on the field too. I’d also find a place for Tommy Nobis.
Report this comment
pcoleman
April 24th, 2009
3:07 pm
In the 1966 NFL Draft Nobis was the #1 Pick overall and Johnson the #16 pick (the extra first round pick) of the first round. Rassas was the first pick in ROUND 2.
Report this comment
Mac
April 24th, 2009
3:50 pm
Standing in the concession line at Fulton County Stadium during an exhibition game circa 1985, it wasn’t until he was ordering that I realized I was behind Nobis. When we were both dressing our hotdogs, I told him how much I had enjoyed watching him play. He was humble and gracious – and buying his own dogs at the stand, not eating filet mignon in a suite. A good guy that Tommy Nobis.
Report this comment
AGTFan
April 24th, 2009
4:40 pm
It truly is a travesty that Tommy Nobis isn’t in the NFL HOF. He really was an effective defense pretty much all by himself. If he had played anywhere except Atlanta, he would be in the HOF. A great player and a great human being. If I was Arthur Blank, I’d want Nobis around my team, just to give lessons on being human.
Report this comment
Rock
April 24th, 2009
5:10 pm
Thank you Furman Bisher.
I googled Randy Johnson about a week or two ago wondering what became of him.
Tommy Nobis was maybe the best middle linebacker in the era of great ones.
It is a travesty that he is not in the Hall.
Arthur Blank should do everything he can to get Nobis in.
Report this comment
shortcircuit
April 24th, 2009
5:16 pm
If I owned the team I would go anywhere I wanted to also. I had the privilege of meeting Tommy one time and he is truly just a nice person.
Report this comment
Terrible Truth
April 24th, 2009
7:10 pm
Tommy Nobis is a nice guy and long overdue HOF’er, but judging from the color work he used to do on the Falcons pre-season games many years ago, not too bright. Arthur Blank may have sensed that too. Besides, cuts had to be made somewhere to overpay Michael Vick. I did love how Nobis would throw the ball into the stands after an interception. Hell, he may have had the best arm on the team!
Randy Johnson had guts (or perhaps no brains) for playing most of the time with his chin strap unbuckled behind some horrific offensive lines. I think he finally learned his lesson when Sam Huff ripped off his helmet, very nearly with his head in it.
Report this comment
falcon21
April 24th, 2009
9:15 pm
Terrible Truth, you are 100% right on Tommy and Arthur. Tommy was not a great color guy and AB was and still is learning as a new owner. As for AB being on the field, WTH- if I owned the team that is where I would be.
Report this comment
oldandntheway
April 25th, 2009
12:10 am
Met Randy Johnson a few times in the late sixties and to put it bluntly, he was a dumbass redneck with a lot of money and no class.
Report this comment
Dr. Warren
April 26th, 2009
10:28 am
Nobis gave autographs generously and with a friendly smile when I was a kid in the ’70’s. I think I got two or three of them over time. Even at my young age, it was clear he was the kind of sportsman the youth league coaches wanted you to be, too.
Report this comment
wxwax
April 26th, 2009
11:58 pm
A fine column.
Thank you.
Report this comment
Acworth Don
April 27th, 2009
7:54 am
Hey, what’s with the anti – Furman comments? Why, what would we be without Chipper?
Glav? (Unfortunately we may find out too soon) and Bish?! Players come and go just as writers
do but great writers like Furman are why we older guys and gals stick around during good and bad times with the Braves. An old Dodger fan I came to Atlanta in ‘68 and it took me a while to come around to the Braves. Ted recruited me into the 400 Club and the days of 1000 fans per game
came and went. Finally….1991 and the great run of 14 straight for the Bravos….who was our inside man? …why Bish, of course. Long may he write and long may I enjoy to read a master who I picture still using an old typewriter. Thanks for the memories and inside views of a real pro.
Report this comment
Al Thomy
April 27th, 2009
5:37 pm
As the Constitution NFL beat man for the first 15 years of Falcon history, and a member of the Hall of Fame Board of Selectors for that period, I fought an uphill battle to get Tommy Nobis in the Hall. Unfortunately, others put more emphasis on the team’s shaky leadership and its losing ways rather than Nobis’great defense. Most opponents ranked him above Dick Butkus, the NFL’s cover star of the times. Now that they’ve moved Nobis to the seniors’ division, I’m still trying and not giving up. One problem, those who do the voting today never saw Nobis play. I’ve had success in the past, successfully reopening the case for Johnny Mize and Rick Ferrell in the baseball Hall of Fame and for (Georgia Tech’s) Bill Fincher in the College Hall of Fame. The Falcons themselves need to help. If I’m not mistaken, with exception of Norm Van Brocklin, I don’t think there’s a single purely Falcon in the Pro Hall of Fame. As for Randy Johnson, if you took the beating he took for the helpless Falcons of his day, you’d have trouble too. Once he was so beat-up from endless sacks, he lined up behind the guard to take the snap.I treasure my times with the Falcons. It was like being in the trenches together and under extreme fire. It was a lot harder for Nobis to do what he did than it was for Butkus to take his bows.
Report this comment
All I'm Saying Is...
April 28th, 2009
9:43 am
Furman: Great article and keep more of the same coming as you are the one person who can share insight and perspective about sports in general and former great Atlanta athletes that most people do not know about in particular. By the way, can you do anything to get Nobis considered for the HOF? If so, put your time and effort where your pen is and get after it.
If I owned the team, I would go on the field after the game if I wanted to although I would be smart enough not to. If I worked for the Falcons, I would be smart enough to let the owner ask me for advice about whether he should go on the field and bite my tongue otherwise.
Also, if I were the owner, I would be smart enough to always welcome back former Atlanta Falcons especially those like Tommy Nobis, Claude Humphrey, Jim Zook, Jesse Tuggle, Mike Kenn, Robert Pennywell, Steve Bartkowski, Bob Berry, Tim Mazzetti, etc. as honoring the past is the way you show respect for the franchise.
Report this comment
wes
April 28th, 2009
12:07 pm
If I owned the Falcons, I’d go wherever the hell I pleased!
Arthur Blank cares. It’s no big deal to see him down on the field…he’s only down there during the last couple minutes.
Report this comment
angry banker
April 28th, 2009
6:10 pm
Nobis is in the Falcon’s ‘ring of honor’ – beyond that, what else would you want AB to do? He doesn’t have any direct say about who goes in the HOF.
great article Mr. Bisher
Report this comment
Rev. Charles W. Brown
April 28th, 2009
10:57 pm
When I served as pastor of a Baptist Church west of Atlanta back in the mid-70’s, I heard a knock on my office door one evening and greeted a casually dressed, stumpy, athletic-type guy that was looking for a certain church in the area, where he was scheduled to speak to the Boy Scouts. His name was Tommy Nobis. I marveled that such a high profile, professional athlete would take time out to drive to Mableton, GA and address a group of scouts. Needless to say, I was impressed by the man as well as the athlete. Unquestionably, he was a role-model for many.
Report this comment
Brian Hunt
April 29th, 2009
1:44 pm
I really enjoyed reading this piece.
Report this comment
Reno 911
April 29th, 2009
1:50 pm
Mr. Bisher- Always a pleasure to read your columns, and this is no exception. Thanks for all you do.
Report this comment
Dan
April 29th, 2009
8:11 pm
Check google news concerning a San Antonio sports radio talkshow host, Eugene Williams, who is attempting to start a campaign to raise the profile of Nobis and get him in the Hall of Fame. It would be nice to see the Atlanta sports media get behind such a campaign. Nobis earned it on the field; unfortuantely he happened to play for a lousy franchise, in a then-small market, which was seldom one of the featured teams on the two or three nationally-broadcast games on each Sunday afternoon back in the latter 60s and early 70s.
Report this comment
crabapplejoe
April 30th, 2009
11:00 pm
Furman, keep it comin’ old guy. Been reading you since I was a youngster back in the ’60s. It is wonderful that there is still a “journalist” at the AJC. I had no idea that Randy Johnson had taken such a bad turn….too bad..he did take a beating in those early years. Hope he can shed the demons.
Report this comment
Falcon228
May 1st, 2009
8:31 am
My most memorable Nobis game was on Dec. 18, 1966. The Falcons had won 3 of the last 4 games and they were playing the Pittsburg Steelers. Now this wasn’t the Steelers of the ’70’s by no means. They were worse than the expansion Falcons. I had won 4 tickets in a promotion from the local Coca-Cola Bottling Co. in the community I grew up in. We just knew it was going to be a win. As it was all the Falcons wanted to do was show up and get it over with. Get a paycheck and go home. But not Tommy Nobis. He played his heart out that day. Tackle after tackle. The other story of that day was a former UGA QB that had been released by the Falcons early that season. The Steelers picked him up and converted him to running back and he ran all over the Falcons that day. That QB’s name was Preston Ridlehuber. He took over the game and almost single handed beat the Falcons. He had to be sore after that game. I think Nobis was the only one that tackled him that day.
Report this comment
russell nittinger
May 1st, 2009
9:51 am
great piece. lets not forget jeff van note for hall of fame !
Report this comment
bottomline
May 2nd, 2009
3:49 pm
First
Report this comment
Larry
May 2nd, 2009
3:52 pm
Why would anyone be surprised at the trade of Josg Anderson? He has the potential to steal bases, bunt for a single, turn a double into a triple leading to something that is baffling to Bobby Cox–manufacturing a run in a close game!
There’s only one hope for this team with Bobby Cox. Shutout pitching and a solo homer, just like what Glavine and Justice did to give this man his only championship despite given a wealth of talent for 14 years.
Report this comment
NRBQ
May 2nd, 2009
3:55 pm
Gol-danged, con-sarned, new-fangled, whippersnapper Braves!
Report this comment
bluedar
May 2nd, 2009
3:57 pm
Tommy Hanson. Freddie Freeman. Jason Heyward. Jordan Schafer. Brandon Jones. Gorkys Hernandez. Julio Teheran. Cole Rohrbaugh. Kris Medlen. Cody Johnson. Brandon Hicks.
The list goes on and on.
Report this comment
Michael
May 2nd, 2009
4:00 pm
Actually, I disagree. Look at our lineup – McCann, KJ, Escobar, Chipper, Schaefer, and Frenchy were all brought up through the farm system (as were Martin Prado, Brandon Jones, and Jo-Jo Reyes). Hanson will be up soon. While the hitting has been atrocious, this likely has very little to do with the organization the player came up with.
Report this comment
Daniel
May 2nd, 2009
4:01 pm
Furman.. your crazy.
Jordan Schafer, Jason Heyward, Tommy Hanson, Freddie Freeman, Cole Rohrbaugh.. etc etc etc.
We have the 2nd rated farm system in all of baseball right now. Your complaining because we traded away Josh Anderson to give Schafer a chance to play every game? Jordan has the 2nd highest OBP behind Chipper.
Who exactly did we give up to get Derek Lowe? The biggest mistake was trading Salty for Tex, but we will learn from that.
Didnt we trade away a vet in Edgar Renteria to get Jair Jurrjens? I would say that worked out. Give the front office a break. They want to win now, and win later. Chipper isnt getting any younger.
Report this comment
jmart1951
May 2nd, 2009
4:10 pm
The Braves have one of the best farm systems in the major leagues. Go over to Gwinnett and look for yourself. Then take a holiday to Myrtle Beach and while there take in a game. Our farm system is getting ready to explode with talent. The Braves future is bright and Wren appears to be more stingy with our prospects than his predecessor.
Report this comment
IlliniDawg
May 2nd, 2009
4:12 pm
This is what you get when you let a senile pensioner out of his walker so he can write a column for a major newspaper.
Report this comment
JF
May 2nd, 2009
4:14 pm
Mr. Bisher is right…. despite what you’re listing as current players, the fact is the trades he has listed are fact….and if any of you think that giving the five “golden” farm kids away for a one year rental of a selfish player like Tex, or an often injured Drew…then you can’t be helped.
Not having traded those kids away might negate the need for Lowe, KK, or Vasquez to all come here with the big salaries…
My, my….look what’s happening now with McCann needing a seeing eye dog…where is Salty when you need him?…ask Big John the former GM…
Maybe Salty would have been playing first intead of Kothman, and could have slipped behind the plate easily…and Elvis Andrus might well be pushing Escobar….
…and on and on…
Yes folks, Mr. Bisher (remember that, because he earned that respect while most of you were still in dirty diapers)….Mr. Bisher has forgotten more than most of you will ever know….
thanks, Mr. Bisher….
Report this comment
Bill
May 2nd, 2009
4:18 pm
Smoltz a farm product? — oh yes, of Detroit!
Report this comment
braveshater
May 2nd, 2009
4:23 pm
Kelly Jonhnson is a bust. Schaffer will be a decent player, but not a difference maker. Escobar is the only thing resembling a star the Braves have produced since Chipper. I agree with u Furman. I dont know what these clowns are doing. Its not like we’re bringin in Top Notch talent via free agency. we get an over the hill pitcher, one who just gives it up and eats innings, and a Japanese who cant find the strike zone. Where is Manny, or Burnett, or Sabathia, or anybody who would make a difference. How do u spend all this money to be a .500 team, it makes no sense. we could have done that with the talent we have in the farm system. If there isnt a better second baseman than Kelly Johnson in the system, its a JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report this comment
uga
May 2nd, 2009
4:32 pm
The Braves have a lot of problems, but the farm system isn’t one of them. It’s widely regarded as one of the better farm systems in all of baseball.
Report this comment
Tim
May 2nd, 2009
4:33 pm
Correction….Smoltz did not come out of the Braves farm system, he was in the Detroit system and the Braves stole him in the Doyle Alexander deal. That said, I agree that the Braves have mortgaged their future on bad trades that did not work out, and destroyed the farm system. I fear the Vazquez trade will be another one that is regretted.
Report this comment
jay
May 2nd, 2009
4:36 pm
Its always terrific to get the scenile musings of a geriatric in your morning paper. Nevermind that Baseball America and ESPN both rank our farm talent among their top-five. Nevermind that Furman Bischer is clearly old and out of touch. Let’s just churn out another overwrought piece of journalistic garbage and expect the public to digest it because “it’s Furman!”… THIS is why newspapers are dying.
Report this comment
farmdaddyo
May 2nd, 2009
4:41 pm
Furman Bisher has been writing foolish stuff for decades. Check out the old Bear Bryant stories. The Braves may have traded away some good prospects for Tex but the farm is not empty. There are other writers this paper that don’t agree with the senile one.
Report this comment
John
May 2nd, 2009
4:43 pm
wow, what a horrible article. how about you do some research next time.
Report this comment
payattention
May 2nd, 2009
4:47 pm
people…pay attention…there are two things that are being talked about here, and while i agree with Mr. Bisher most of the time today i dont. The farm system (FS) is not dried up, it has just been sprinkled on other teams (though we do have some great potential talent up and coming). The braves problem is not free agency nor the current FS it has been the three poor trades talked about in this article…though the fact that we have made three poor trades costing us around 15 prospects proves that the FS is not dried up…people wanted the goods that we have, and we still have 12 to 15 potential studs out there. The article should have been titled “Trades that have crippled the Braves”, instead.
Report this comment
Daybed Wagmoe
May 2nd, 2009
4:56 pm
It’s okay everybody — just smile, nod, humor the old man, and go to Dave O’Brien’s blogs for actual news on the Braves and their very promising, very strong farm system.
Report this comment
Randy
May 2nd, 2009
4:56 pm
Due respect Furman, but your head is up your ass if you think the Braves’ farm system has “dried up.” Get real. The Braves have one of the richest farm systems in baseball.
Report this comment
Jim H.
May 2nd, 2009
4:57 pm
Furman, do you even know anything about Atlanta sports anymore? Dude, I respect you but I think its time for you to retire. I was going to go down the list of high rated home grown prospects that the Braves have at or near the major league level, but bluedar and others have pretty much covered it (good job). If there ever was a problem with the farm system it can be argued that the problem existed several years ago, but has been corrected in the past few years. As for the recent dry spell in playoff appearances, that can be attributed to things like — 1) a shrinking payroll that caused us to have to turn loose lots of talent during the last 10 years 2.) The injury bug catching up with us (during the playoff run the Braves were very lucky at avoiding injuries 3.) Our luck just plain evening out. The 14 year division champ run was an anomaly…..things like that just don’t happen very often in pro sports.
I do agree with you however that the Tex trade was an awful trade. I thought it was when they did it and I still think that. Gotta take the good with the bad though. That Jurrjens trade looks pretty dang good, don’t it?
Go back to sleep Mr. Bisher.
Report this comment
MiltonDawg
May 2nd, 2009
5:00 pm
Something needs to change soon. Our offense is sub-par if that. As far as 2B is concerned, anybody good in Gwinnett? I also think the Braves playing for a home crowd with a half empty stadium. Where are the fans in the seats? There is no buzz about them at all. Agreed??
Report this comment
Wilson
May 2nd, 2009
5:04 pm
When 6 of the 8 position players in your Opening Day lineup are out of your farm system, arguing that the team doesn’t develop players and the farm system talent has dried up doesn’t really hold much water. Not to mention the slew of prospects on the horizon who will be competing for major league jobs in the near future.
Report this comment
Josh
May 2nd, 2009
5:13 pm
Bisher you suck! maybe you should actually pay attention every now and then, The Braves have one of the best farm systems in baseball.
Report this comment
Pickens
May 2nd, 2009
5:20 pm
Furman,
You put up stupid story after stupid story. Do you know all of the talent that is about to come up through the braves system? You have no CLUE!!! Please do us a favor and RETIRE!!!
Report this comment
BillH
May 2nd, 2009
5:23 pm
Hey, maybe I’m old too, because (1) Bisher is right (2) the sort of insulting comments made here come from people who wouldn’t be qualified to hold Bisher’s hat.
What’s the deal with being rude? And, if what I’ve experienced in life offers any clue, the people who insult others while anonymous on the Net are usually timid little people who spend the day in real life getting kicked around. So, safe at their keyboards, they take cheap shots. If you said any of that to Bisher’s face – even at his age – he’d throw you out the window and on into the trees.
Disagree all you like with Bisher but, lord a mercy, try to do it in a civil way. Surely your mamas taught you better than this.
Report this comment
Timmy
May 2nd, 2009
5:30 pm
Furman,
I have not read much of your stuff in the past, but I have to ask that you stick to talking about things you know about. The Atlanta Braves farm system is one of the elite systems in baseball. We’re easily top 5, and some would argue us as even having the second best farm system in the game. And that’s before you even realize all the talent we’ve traded away the last couple years. Add the guys we swapped in the Teixiera deal (Feliz, Harrison, Andrus) and we’re easily number one. And another solid prospect in catcher Tyler Flowers, who I really feel will become one of the elite DHs in the game when Thome retires.
Some things about our farm system you should know:
A rival team’s scout said he would trade any player on their major league roster for Jason Heyward. Think about that statement for a second.
Tommy Hanson has had multiple people compare him to Roy Halladay. Halladay is one of the best, if not the best pitchers in the game.
Kris Medlen’s adjustment period to being promoted to AAA this year was him retiring the first 20 batters he faced in order, and facing the minimum through 26.
We have two top 100 prospects who are the youngest and second youngest players at their level, and are more than holding their own in Freddie Freeman and Jason Heyward.
Jeff Locke just took a no-no bid into the 7th inning for his second straight start.
Zeke Spruill a kid who was going to Prom this time last year, is pitching in full season ball, and has a 20-1 K-BB ratio. That’s insane. And he wasn’t even our first pick.
I could continue, but it’s not even worth it, because you obviously aren’t paying any attention at all.
Report this comment
anonbeliever
May 2nd, 2009
5:44 pm
How can you be a Kelly Johnson fan???? Do you have an affinity for players who hit sub .100 for a month, then suprisingly become sizzling hot and hit .400 for a stretch only to leave you with a a TERRIBLY INCONSISTENT .250 hitting OUTFIELDER playing 2nd base???
I sure hope there were some breakdowns when it came to scouting of the five players we sent for Teixeira, but if there wern’t John Schurholtz should be fired immediately since we obviously had no intention of keeping Tex any longer than we did… ITS TIME FOR AN OVERHAUL
Report this comment
Josh
May 2nd, 2009
5:45 pm
Furman, in this economy, I’d slash your job first. This is the worst article I have read on this website in awhile.
1. Our farm system is washed up? … quite the opposite… we have a top 3 farm system in Major League Baseball. Just because they aren’t playing 30 minutes away in Gwinnett, I guess you just don’t look past AAA. Read up on Freeman, Heyward, Hanson, Gorkys Hernendez (all top 100 prospects) and Julio Teheran, Jeff Locke, Cole Rohrbaugh, Kris Medlen, Cody Johnson, and Brandon Hicks… and we have the 7th pick in the draft.
2. You are mad the Braves traded Josh Anderson and his “experience” to Detroit? He hasnt had more than 150 ABs in a season and has played 45 games in CF in 3 seasons… Schafer hit .324 in Spring Training with 5 SBs and is the future… Josh Anderson was traded to us for Oscar Villareal… Schafer is a 5 tool player… Anderson is not.
3.You are obviously clueless when it comes to talking about how “poor” our starting pitching is… since our starters are 4th in the NL in ERA.
4. You are going to judge Marquis on the fact he is making $9.8M this season? Try looking at his statistics… he is garbage. A career 4.54 ERA ans was awful for us when we traded him.
Report this comment
robert hughes
May 2nd, 2009
5:47 pm
Furman, you do not have a clue. Terence, the racist is gone. It’s time for you to join him.
Report this comment
Chop Chop
May 2nd, 2009
5:48 pm
Somebody’s got to write a crazily inaccurate column from time to time, folks. We need something to complain (and be completely right) about.
Report this comment
Baracked the vote!
May 2nd, 2009
5:52 pm
Prospects come and go. having 2 prospects in the top 100 is no big deal. every ML team should have at least two. Trading Wainwright, Marquis, Andrus and Neftali Feliz can only be viewed as a mistake since the trades were supposed to bring another WS championship to Atlanta. Finally, Kelly Johnson (from the great farm system) is not a ML 2nd baseman. he butchers the position on a regular basis. and what the heck has Jo-Jo Reyes done?
Report this comment
Timmy
May 2nd, 2009
6:01 pm
This sort of writing is why newspapers aren’t going to make it. And blogs and message boards are slowly going to take over.
Report this comment
Tomahawkmafia
May 2nd, 2009
6:05 pm
What are you thinking Furman? The Braves farmsystem is among the best in baseball? Were you bored and just wanted to write about something that is completely false? If that is the case just write a novel.
Report this comment
Timmy
May 2nd, 2009
6:07 pm
On Kelly, he’s about average for his position defensively, and he’s one of the better offensive second basemen in the game. I’ve found Kelly is a good barometer for figuring out if the person you’re talking to has a clue about baseball. Those who think he’s a good ballplayer normally know what they’re talking about, and those who think he stinks normally don’t. He butchers an easy play now and then it makes his defense look worse than it is, but we makes a lot of tough plays, and gets to a lot of balls that other second basemen don’t get to, and that makes up for it. It’s not like he’s played there his whole life, so the easy mistakes should be expected, and he’s only going to continue to improve as a defender. Offensively, BP projected that he’d be the second best 2B in baseball this year, and I still think that’s very feasible. He’s had some rough luck early on, and everyone’s trying to hang him out to dry.
Report this comment
Mike
May 2nd, 2009
6:14 pm
This is the second article you have written on this topic, and you are grossly false. Baseball Prospectus, a rather distinguished magazine, maybe you have heard of it, ranks the Braves farm system as 5th BEST IN THE MAJORS! Mr. Fischer, your time has come to put down the pen. You are out of touch.
Report this comment
Macon Braves (RIP)
May 2nd, 2009
6:21 pm
Huh??? Was about to ask what the the heck this guy was thinking, then realized it was the 100 year old senile guy that the paper keeps around for Equal Opportunity Employment, so I’ll just move on and read something by someone not out of his gourd.
Report this comment
Rob from SC
May 2nd, 2009
6:22 pm
What the hell is wrong with this guy. Jason Heyward and Tommy Hanson are top 5 prospects in all of baseball. We have Freddie Freeman, Gorkys Hernandez, Kris Medlen, Jeff Locke, Cole Rohborgh. Does this guy even look at Baseball America. DOB set him straight
Report this comment
JD
May 2nd, 2009
6:33 pm
You’d think that when writing about 1 article a week you’d have time to do a little research. How can you say the farm has “dried up”? Are you completely ignoring the potential future stars in Heyward, Freeman, Morton, Rohrbough, Locke, Teheran, among others?
And what’s wrong with Wren going outside the organization for help? Look at the people who were big contributors in the 14 straight division titles: Pendleton (yes, the same inept batting coach we have now), Maddux, Smoltz, McGriff, Sheffield, and Hudson, just to name a few.
I can’t believe something like this was even posted.
Report this comment
BravesFAN885
May 2nd, 2009
6:35 pm
are you retarded? the braves have one of the highest ranked minor systems in the game!!!
Report this comment
MEB
May 2nd, 2009
6:52 pm
Very disappointing article Furman. I cannot believe you actually researched this article. I think a retraction is in order. Bringing in some pitching talent from the Dodgers and from Japan does not provide evidence of a decline in the the talent down of the farm. I’m really looking forward to the next five years of Braves baseball with at ton of home grown talent leading the way.
Report this comment
TROTTINGHOME
May 2nd, 2009
6:52 pm
bisher’s brain dried up
Report this comment
Um, what?
May 2nd, 2009
7:38 pm
If the Braves are so committed to free agents, why the heck can’t they seem to re-sign them when the time comes? Sorry, Bisher, your theory doesn’t wash.
Report this comment
the truth....
May 2nd, 2009
7:38 pm
Mr. Bisher…don’t feel too bad at all the dumb rednecks trashing you…by their rudeness we know they are from this era of selfish ignorant smucks. The only class they know anything about was the GED class they skipped so they could procreate with the girl from the piggly wiggly beside her double wide….
ignorance gone to seed……….
Classless….
Report this comment
BravesAreDone
May 2nd, 2009
8:15 pm
I’m not a believer in Kelly Johnson … never have been. Too streaky.
Report this comment
Shamus Thacker
May 2nd, 2009
8:24 pm
Furman, you couldn’t be more wrong if you tried!
Where the Hell did you get your info?
I don’t care if you’ve been at the AJC for fifty-years, your azz should be fired for incompetence over this piece. It’s downright laughable.
Report this comment
Shamus Thacker
May 2nd, 2009
8:36 pm
It’s AMAZING this thing is still up. LMAO
Report this comment
Dr. Phil
May 2nd, 2009
8:36 pm
I don’t agree that the farm system is broken, but something is seriously wrong. The Braves are not hitting, and their relief pitching is horrible. I have followed Josh Anderson for a couple of years, and I think that it was a big mistake trading him. Schafer is likely to become a great player, but for now, I would take Anderson. I think that .500 is about the best we can hope for this year.
Report this comment
Branch Rickey
May 2nd, 2009
8:37 pm
Half the Braves’ starting eight – Schafer, Kochman. Johnson & whoever is playing in left, might be reserves on a good team. The bullpen SUCKS ! The starting staff came from other organizations. Furman Bisher is CORRECT !
Report this comment
John Radney
May 2nd, 2009
8:37 pm
Yes, sign the old washed up players like Glavin and Ross. Smoltz, to their credit, when North, and didn’t re-sign him. Next gone should be the bily goat you have that
plays third. Hurt or gripping. Dump chippie now. that
Report this comment
Sparky Anderson
May 2nd, 2009
8:43 pm
The Braves’ farm system might be getting better but it sure as hell doesn’t reflect the current major league roster; what a bunch of mediocre players ! Better pray Frank Wren doesn’t loot the farm to get some washed up slugger for firstbase or left.
Report this comment
Ken Stallings
May 2nd, 2009
8:45 pm
I don’t agree with Furman’s column. But while I might have made a post about my views on that, the more important factor is the sheer venal rudeness of so many posters here. Many of you simply have no shame.
If Furman Bisher were to retire, it would be solely due to his lamentation of the erosion of human virtue in society. I cannot believe so many people would be so personally obnoxious to an iconic sports columnist.
Report this comment
Sparky Anderson
May 2nd, 2009
8:45 pm
Invest 4 more years in the oft-injured, arrogant and self-centered Chipper Jones? His butt
should be offered to a contender in the American League for a parcel of prospects !
Report this comment
hop
May 2nd, 2009
8:56 pm
if the farm is so strong why are they still on the farm.
i believe the braves senior management continue to emphasis this fact,but they are still a 500 club with no hope of being a contender.
Report this comment
JD
May 2nd, 2009
9:10 pm
if the farm is so strong why are they still on the farm. hop
How much do you know about baseball? Prospects not named Albert Pujols tend to need 3-4 years of seasoning in the minors before they’re anywhere near ready to face major league pitchers and hitters.
And for everyone defending Furman Bisher – just because he’s been here forever doesn’t mean you have to agree with him on everything. My goodness…you guys defend him and kiss his butt so much you’d think he just cured lupus.
Report this comment
win one for Bobby
May 2nd, 2009
9:14 pm
we have one of the best farm systems in baseball, the envy of mlb. Wren wanted to keep a competetive team on the field now, and w/ some youth coming soon, we’re not gonna fade away any time soon. article is way off base in my humble opinion. all do respect to Furman, just don’t get it. We signed free agents and our pitching staff is one of the best, Garrett anderson has let us down thus far and we need b-mac bad. settle down Braves fans(so called), It’s gonna be a great year just wait.
Report this comment
Blair
May 2nd, 2009
9:25 pm
I read this and sort of thought the writer was, perhaps, behind the times a bit. I am not sure I agree with much of it, if any. I just simply don’t have the time to hammer away at an opinion that seems convenient, but doesn’t actually jive with reality.
Report this comment
scottbravesfan
May 2nd, 2009
9:41 pm
HAHA
The Braves have one of the best farm systems in baseball. Chipper, Escobar, Kelly Johnson, Jordan Shafer, Brandon Jones, Jeff Francouer, and Brian McCann. That’s pretty much the every day lineup until Anderson comes back and they are all home grown. Jurrjens was a minor leaguer when he was acquired and Jo Jo Reyes was in our system as was Tom Glavine. We have Tommy Hanson, Jason Heyward, and Freddie Freeman coming along that are going to be good major leaguers by all accounts. The farm is stocked in the lower ends as well.
Report this comment
scottbravesfan
May 2nd, 2009
9:43 pm
Hop,
They are what three games out of first right now you idiot. And the reason they are still on the farm? Have you ever heard of Mark Prior? Google him jackass. You rush pitchers they are out of baseball in two years. Same with position players. You better give them enough at bats in the minors or they are going to be in for a rude awakening.
Seriously some people just need to stick to football because they have no idea how baseball works.
Report this comment
scottbravesfan
May 2nd, 2009
9:44 pm
Hop,
Google Mark Prior and see what happens when you rush pitchers to the big leagues idiot. Same with hitters you don’t give them enough at bats in the minors they will get destroyed in the big leagues.
Stick with football because baseball is just too complicated for your simple mind.
Report this comment
scottbravesfan
May 2nd, 2009
9:46 pm
Sparky Anderson,
Yeah that’s a good idea we should get rid of our best player and one of the best switch hitters in the history of the sport. He’s also the best hitter in franchise history. Has a higher OPS than Hank Aaron, of course you probably have no idea what the hell OPS is.
Report this comment
Coach (2010 or bust)
May 2nd, 2009
10:20 pm
Mr.Bisher, I respect your opinion but this article isn’t even close to being accurate.
The farm system has been productive. It’s just that players and pitchers such as Adam Wainwright, Kyle Davies, Jason Marquis, Kevin Millwood, Jason Schmidt, Mark DeRosa, Jermaine Dye and many others are spread all over the major leagues.
In fact, there are more than 35 active players in the big leagues and minors who were drafted by our Braves. It’s just that they are playing elsewhere.
For whatever reason, these athletes have been traded for players who were able to help keep the division streak alive. Up until 2005, it was worth the trade off.
John Schuerholz has made some great trades and some stinkers. John Smoltz (Cox was the GM) and Fred McGriff come to mind as two of the great trades and Greg Maddux is in my opinion, the greatest free agent acquisition of all time. The bad deals: Teixeira, Wainwright / Marquis top the list.
But with corporate ownership who’s bottom line is either red or black and a limited payroll, our front office has struggled to adjust to the new structure. I can understand the criticism when looking at our current rotation but you must understand, Frank Wren had money to spend and he stuck to his guns in acquiring starting pitching. Some of it will turn out great. Others, not so much.
But my criticism toward you Mr.Bisher is this. How could the Teixeira trade have actually been possible in the first place if our farm system was not productive enough to HAVE THE TALENT to trade in the first place?
Report this comment
patriots75
May 2nd, 2009
11:03 pm
I agree somewhat with his comments,the biggest problem is the coaching staff, they just seem to be too easy going,no take charge or leadership to get over the hump, Bobby’s time has come and gone, time for some new blood to bring energy to the field, we use to be able to just reach down and pull up a player and never miss a beat, but those day’s are over, there are a few that will one day grace the major’s, but most of the names you keep listing are all prospects, that’s the key word, i have seen most of the players on the list over the past several years and other than Hanson,Medlin and Morton, no others are as close to being ready in the next 2-3 years,check their progress for yourself, i think it will be lean a few more years unless they open the payroll to supplement the home grown talent.
Report this comment
Kevin
May 2nd, 2009
11:22 pm
A baseless and pathetic article. Six of the eight Braves’ regulars are homegrown (C Brian McCann, 3B Chipper Jones, SS Yunel Escobar, 2B Kelly Johnson, CF Jordan Schafer, and RF Jeff Francoeur), they’re the only organization with two of the top 10 prospects in all of baseball in Jason Heyward and Tommy Hanson, and they have been universally ranked as one of the top five farm systems in baseball. If you don’t want to research your articles anymore at least be upfront about it.
Report this comment
bird
May 3rd, 2009
12:06 am
Kelly Johnson is garbage! Infante should be the starting second baseman. Better glove and bat by far.
Report this comment
Tommy
May 3rd, 2009
12:29 am
Boy, I really hope the farm system is in as great a shape as most of you think…I’m not as convinced. Sure we have some prospects, but that is exactly what they are…not stars. Some may pan out, others won’t. AND, the point of the article was that unless something changes, they will pan out on some other team.
At the time of the Tex trade, most of you were beside yourself with joy. A GT man, a hometown hero, blah, blah, blah. That had to be the stupidest trade in the history of the franchise.
I disagree with Furman frequently also. However, I think his point about trades rather than holding onto prospects is valid and hopefully will change. I also agree with BillH and Ken S that the attacks on the author are shameful. State your opinion and disagreement, but stop the personal attacks.
Comments that are negative about Chipper really show your ignorance. He is a superstar who wanted to play out his career on a team where he is given NO protection in the order. When has he seen a decent pitch?
Report this comment
Jay
May 3rd, 2009
12:36 am
Furman is out of touch and needs to retire.
Report this comment
MattyO
May 3rd, 2009
1:06 am
Didn’t he write an article like this already. Well the second time around is still totally wrong. How long until the third one? What a waste of an article.
Report this comment
JD
May 3rd, 2009
1:21 am
I really hope this doesn’t go in the Sunday paper.
I love how you make Jason Marquis out to be a great pitcher who’s a huge loss for the Braves. He’s a middle to back of the rotation starter at best.
And you make it sound like a sin that Frank Wren went outside the organization for help. Don’t you think that Pendleton, Smoltz (contrary to what you said, he wasn’t developed by the Braves), Maddux, Sheffield, and Hudson made significant contributions to division titles?
A good portion of our roster now has some above average home-grown talent in Chipper, McCann, Francoeur, and Escobar. And what about the loaded farm teams? Heyward, Hanson, Freeman, Rohrbough, Locke, etc etc etc.
Report this comment
Nick
May 3rd, 2009
1:56 am
Wow….Have to agree with nearly everyone else who posted – whatever you’re smoking Furman, I’d lay off. Talk about a garbage article….
Report this comment
rufus
May 3rd, 2009
2:02 am
Furman’s ignorant of the farm system and the talent homegrown on the team today. Retire and join that fool terrance.
Report this comment
Tom
May 3rd, 2009
2:14 am
It looks like most of the people who responded here just read the headline, but weren’t able to actually read the article. I’d also bet a large percentage of the people trashing Mr. Bisher are too young to really remember the Braves of the 90’s when winning was the only measuring stick. The Braves used to produce players who came to the majors and helped win division championships every year. That’s not the case anymore. Many of the best prospects were traded away for short term players who didn’t really make much of a difference. The rest are still just prospects. Maybe the current group of prospects are highly rated, but until they produce in the major leagues (hopefully for the Braves), they’re still just prospects.
I really like the current home grown Braves – McCann, Escobar, Johnson, Schafer, Francoeur, etc., and I hope they all have long successful careers with the Braves. However, they aren’t winning enough to compete for the division championship. The fact that a team has a bunch of home grown players on their roster doesn’t mean the team is doing a good job managing their farm system. Most of the worst teams in baseball have plenty of home grown players filling spots on the major roster because they can’t find, or can’t afford, anyone better.
Hopefully, the current home grown Braves will continue to improve and live up to their potential, and the last few unsuccessful years will be quickly forgotten; but the fact is, right now Mr. Bisher is 100% correct. The Braves aren’t getting as much out of the farm system as they did during their run of division championships.
Report this comment
Billy
May 3rd, 2009
2:15 am
You people are sick. If you don’t want to read Mr. Bisher’s articles, then don’t. If you do and don’t like them, then it’s YOUR fault, not his.
And I love the people that want to throw out people like Chipper, McCann, Francoeur, and Escobar. That’s the point! These people are already on the team, and they aren’t playing well enough to win games. Maybe if all of these anonymous posters were to stop bashing the writer, they would understand that, no matter what Baseball Prospectus or any other publication says, those players aren’t helping the Braves NOW. Maybe some of the players that were traded COULD be helping us now.
But no, you would rather hurl insults at someone who knows more about sports than you could ever hope to.
Report this comment
Timmy
May 3rd, 2009
2:49 am
To Billy: The point is he simply doesn’t. Any objective baseball fan, analyst, scout, or stat-head can look at the Braves farm system and see the tremendous value that it has. Anyone calling the Braves farm system “dried up” simply doesn’t know what they are talking about. Not when the Braves are having the kinds of drafts they’re having. The Braves didn’t even have a first round pick last year, and they put together a fantastic draft class, anyone who sees the talent being inserted from the bottom will recognize how vibrant this system is. Take a peak at Rome’s pitching staff. The value is in the numbers. Not all of Spruill, Sullivan, Hoover, DeVall, Stovall, Delgado, Teheran, Clemens, Francis, and Thompson will make an impact at the major league level, but the fact that we have 10 young starting arms with as much potential as that group has just entering full season ball speaks volumes about our ability to find and sign young talent. Also consider that after Wieters, and Price graduate to the majors it’s very likely that Jason Heyward will be the consensus number one prospect in the game. We’re loaded.
I agree with Bisher about some of the trades. But I think it speaks volumes when about how good a team’s scouting and development is when they can make a trade like the Teixiera trade and come out the following season with one of the best systems in the game. Trades like that can be franchise-crippling, but our system is so loaded we traded what wound up being 3 blue chip prospects and still wound up having a great system. It just seems to me, if that’s what he wanted to whine about, he should have headlined it more accordingly. The fact that we didn’t sell the farm or even a portion of it for Jake Peavy seems to show that the FO learned their lesson, and stuck to their guns instead of caving to grab a star. Long story short this franchise has better days ahead.
Report this comment
CB
May 3rd, 2009
3:16 am
It’s comical to think that this man even has a job writing about something he obviously has no understanding of. I’ve been watching the Braves farm teams with intense interest for the last 13 years and I’ve can honestly say I’ve never felt better about our farm system. This man should do everyone a favor and put away his typewriter.
Report this comment
DGdDawg
May 3rd, 2009
4:10 am
tom youre a f***ing idiot
Report this comment
Tom
May 3rd, 2009
4:48 am
“Tom youre a f***ing idiot” is all you have to say in response? I think that one says more about you than anyone else. If you were a little smarter, you could try to write something about the Braves, but no, “Tom youre a f***ing idiot” was all you could come up with. Why not go back to your crayons and maybe one day you can use the computer like a big boy.
By the way, it may be “Tom youre a f***ing idiot” in the Clayton County School System, but everywhere else it’s, “DGdDawg, you’re an f***ing idiot.”
Report this comment
JOHNNYG
May 3rd, 2009
7:58 am
Tom – Players like TP, Sid Bream, Liebrandt, Nixon, Deion, Mullhollanf,Ortiz, Charlie O’Brien, Berryhill,Gallarag, Maddux are those players the farm produced every year? Read the Book Scout’s Honor, a book about Braves way of building a team and get back to us.
You develop talent for TWO REASONS to play for you or to TRADE for players you need.
I am suprised Furman woke from a nap long enough to write this.
Report this comment
invisible man
May 3rd, 2009
8:11 am
Furman didn’t you write this same article 6 months ago? John Smoltz is NOT a product of the Braves farm system. He was acquired in a trade as a minor leaguer. Why would you use Jason Marquis as a measuring stick for former Braves players? He has been average with and with out the Braves. He makes 9.8 million dollars? Who cares? Money doesn’t make you a great player. The major leagues are filled with million dollar players who are average at best. Adam Wainwright? That’s one ex-Brave that’s had some success. There’s a long list of supposed blue chip ex braves that never did a thing once they arrived in the major leagues. The “5 golden talents” that were traded to Texas for Texiera? Who are they? Any MVPs, Cy youngs or allstars in that group? Maybe Wainwright has been successful because he has better talent around in St. Louis then he had when he was a Brave. Who knows. The 90s are over and the Braves run is over. It looks like the young talent that was around in the spring could be good. Who knows. Furman you wrote that the Drew and Wainwright/Marquis trade will haunt the Braves for years to come, have you looked at all the talent that the New York Yankees have traded away, etc. And the Yankees have won more championships then the Braves. Every team has traded away “talent”, so stop crying about it. Just because you draft or sign a player into your farm system, doesn’t make them better if and when they reach the major leagues. It’s a crap shoot.
Report this comment
glove51
May 3rd, 2009
8:16 am
Tom says, ” I’d also bet a large percentage of the people trashing Mr. Bisher are too young to really remember the Braves of the 90’s when winning was the only measuring stick. The Braves used to produce players who came to the majors and helped win division championships every year. That’s not the case anymore. Many of the best prospects were traded away for short term players who didn’t really make much of a difference. ”
The Braves ufarm system used to produce players in the 90’s who won champioships? You mean guys like Smoltz, McGriff, Pendleton, Lonnie Smith, Maddux, Alejandro Pena, Leibrandt, Galleraga, Grissom, Bream, Sheffield, Neagle, Belliard, Jason Schmidt…
Report this comment
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
May 3rd, 2009
8:34 am
Enter your comments here
Report this comment
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
May 3rd, 2009
8:38 am
For those that think Furman is old and doesn’t know what he is talking about just go to a G-Braves game. There is nothing there except Hanson. 5 or 6 prospects in the entire farm system does not make a great system. Furman is exactly right, we gave too much for 1 year wonders, Drew, Tex and I believe we gave away our top catching prospect this year (Flowers). Check out Baseball America’s top 100 prospects. Atl has about 4or 5 and only 1 of those is above A ball.
Report this comment
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
May 3rd, 2009
8:40 am
uhh Glove51, Schmidt did come through the system
Report this comment
IUlia
May 3rd, 2009
8:56 am
czc Hello, i found a very good site with videos funny , sexy girls funny, wrecked cars, live accidents, entertainment , TV shows and other… Try it: http://www.autostrada80.com
Report this comment
LivininAL
May 3rd, 2009
9:05 am
Teams can develop players down on the farm and groom them through the arbitration period. The deep pockets of some owners changed the game
concerning keeping players from the farm. With a limited payroll, trading becomes the option to acquire talent. Trading seems similar to going to the used car lot,you can get some real clunkers. Spending 7 million for an unproven oriental pitcher with no fast ball will prove to be a mistake. Also, I see a trend of not putting the best team on the field, but playing based on what a player is being paid producing or not. No power, no stealing, no moving runners is diappointing, seems the Braves just stand around for 9 innnings to see what will happen wiht no thought of making something happen.
Report this comment
Outhoused
May 3rd, 2009
9:30 am
Classiness, a thing of the past? Furman Bisher has it and the majority if the a$$70!es on here think it is a place to go to sleep before they dropped out of school…
Report this comment
Keith Warren
May 3rd, 2009
9:48 am
Haha. “Outhoused”, you make a comment about class and then make a total “classless” comment.
Well, we finally got rid of Terrence Moore. Now, if that senile old fart Furman Bisher would just retire and go away….
Report this comment
JD
May 3rd, 2009
9:59 am
Blank – if you’re going to cite Baseball America, then you have to consider that they ranked Atlanta’s farm team 6th out of 30. As for the players at A ball, Freman, Heyward, Rohrbough, and Locke will be in AA Mississippi very soon, with a shot at being on the team in 2019.
Report this comment
JD
May 3rd, 2009
10:04 am
Some of you guys will defend Furman Bisher to the death. It’s okay to disagree, people…you don’t always have to have your nose up his butt.
Mr. Bisher could write an article petitioning MLB to make players moonwalk to first base when they get a BB, and you’d be like “Great article, Mr. Bisher! It shows that you’re trying to keep baseball contemporary. Ignore everyone saying that it’s a stupid idea. They don’t know what they’re talking about.”
Report this comment
Jeff R
May 3rd, 2009
10:19 am
I’m with Furman. The Wainwright deal was narrow-sighted. Giving up a very promising pitcher for “Just the Dough” Drew does still irk and hurt. Plain dumb.
Dumber still was the swap that brought Super Tex to the Bravos. As mentioned, the Braves surrender five bona fide talents for the laughable idea that a 1B was going to help them cinch a post season berth. Laughable because it was the pitching that needed bucking up in ‘07.
Perez is a legit talent with a lot of up side. Salty, despite what the team said could have been converted to 1B. Elvis is a solid defensive SS; Escobar could have been positioned to take over 3B from the oft-injured Chipper. Advantage, Rangers.
I think the front office in the waning days of JS as GM thought it had a magic touch after a 14 season run as division champs. In other words, they could do no wrong.
But management got away from two rules that made that run possible: 1) build from the farm up; 2) build with pitching.
Dumb, just plain dumb.
Report this comment
Real Fan
May 3rd, 2009
10:51 am
Why get excited over a farm system with “promise” when Frank Wren will deal those prospects away for some washed up slugger or player in his free agent year? If we had not traded for Texeira we would be reaping the rewards of our farm and positioned for another long run. This team is mediocre at best !
Report this comment
glove51
May 3rd, 2009
11:06 am
Bank Wlaker: re Schmidt – you’re correct my mistake. So, Ok that’s 1 out of 14 I listed, and I could have listed 10-12 more easily.
As to the lack of talent at Gwinnett: [A] you’re wrong — they probably have the best starting pitching in AAA, especially if Reyes goes back. Ever heard of Kris Medlen or Charlie Morton? [b} the top prospects usually spend little tiem in AAA these days. Many jump straight from AA, especially non-pitchers.
Report this comment
Jonathan Davidoff
May 3rd, 2009
11:12 am
The problem is not the farm system, it is the people in the front office who are giving the farm system away for rental players. When we traded for Tex, we were not going to win it all and everyone knew Tex was a one year rental because he was NOT going to give a hometown discount. But Tex was just one of a line of really bad trades for rental players that everyone knew we would not keep.
The Sheffield trade was for a rental.
The JD Drew trade was for a rental.
The Kyle Davies trade was for a rental.
The Renteria trade was for a rental (that being Renteria from Boston for Andy Marte).
The Vaazquez trade is just a rental and will show to be a tremendous loss for the Braves.
Bottom line is we have tremendous talent in the minors and not such great talent in the front office.
Report this comment
Tomas
May 3rd, 2009
11:27 am
Mr. Bisher, do you even follow the Braves. The Braves have two of the top 10 prospects in baseball. They say Tommy Hanson could be the next Jake Peavy, and they say Jayson Heyward is Darril Strawberry without the baggage. That’s talent. Look at Jordan Schafer. He has shown great speed,a great arm, occasional power, a good eye. Not only that, they have Kris Medlen, Jeffrey Locke(who by the way has two no hit bids in a row). Cody Johnson, the next Ryan Howard and Adam Dunn, already has 9 homers in 23 games. Not to mention Freddy Freeman the top offensive performer in the Braves’ Minor League system.
So please Bisher stop it, do you’re homework. The only reason they signed Derek Lowe and Kawakami and traded for Javier Vazquez, is because Tommy Hanson doesn’t have any big league experience, and the Braves need to take it slow make sure they don’t rush they’re players.
Report this comment
rich brave
May 3rd, 2009
11:30 am
ANDERSON out, SCHAFER in. I don’t think either ready or capable of sustaining the lead-off spot at this point. In time, I believe both capable of doing so. Tweedle-dum, tweedle-dee as far as I am concerned. Although, I think ANDERSON is one years’ experience closer than SCHAFER to achieving that goal. But I believe SCHAFER will be the bigger talent.
I fear that what you see is what you get where KELLY JOHNSON is concerned. I have come to the opposite conclusion of the venerable MR. BISHER in his regard. Although I wish to see him in the line-up. I would prefer him in the 7th or 8th slots. He has now had extensive experience at the top of the batting order, and does not appear comfortable there. He does appear more at ease lower down in the order however. I certainly would be interested in seeing some historical figures on his batting results in the 1-2 slots vs. the 7-8 slots. Aloha from the road.
Report this comment
Tomas
May 3rd, 2009
11:40 am
And I didn’t mention Jair Jurrjens, who is a very talented pitcher at the age of 23.
Yes the Adam Wainwright trade was stupid, but trading Andy Marte for Edgar Renteria was great(Andy Marte is currently without a team), and then trading Renteria for Jurrjens and Gorkys was brilliant.
Report this comment
PJ
May 3rd, 2009
12:15 pm
Furman, You should have taken the buyout with everyone else.
Report this comment
TampaGator
May 3rd, 2009
12:37 pm
The Braves gave away talent to the Rangers, but Andrus was not going to play in Atlanta with Escobar as SS. Salty was not going to beat out McCann. Harrison was not pitching well when he was traded. The pitcher, Neifi Perez, should not have been thrown into that deal. That was the only mistake in that trade. Wainright for Drew was a good deal at the time. The Braves had good pitching then and Wainright was a couple of years away from being a ML starter. The Braves did not even see him as a starter in the ML at the time. The Braves ML system is loaded right now with talent, Mr. Bisher, and the Braves refused to trade much of it this past winter, especially Hanson, Medlen, Heyward, and Freeman. So the future is bright with what is down on the farm and I pray the Braves do not panic and trade any of it. Build for the future…don’t trade for the present, please.
Report this comment
Thomas
May 3rd, 2009
12:38 pm
Another awful article by FB. Seriously why does this guy still have a job.
If the Braves system has dried up then at least 80% of the rest the league (of whom we are consistantly ranked higher than in terms of farm strengthy) have gone completely and utterly barren.
The whole premise of this pile of word-vomit is insulting to my intelligence, not to mention the racist undertones.
Report this comment
coachgb
May 3rd, 2009
12:45 pm
What a crap blog! You guys must be total idiots! When Mr. Bisher says that the Farm system has dried up and all of you argue that the Braves lineup is full of Braves Farm system players, take a look people, the Braves are a .500 team at best and have been for the last several seasons! The guys playing now might all be from the system but look how they are playing! If you eat dirt from your front yard, its still dirt!
Report this comment
bvillebaron
May 3rd, 2009
12:48 pm
JF:
You are right, Mr. Bisher has FORGOTTEN. He has a valid point about the Texeira fiasco, but otherwise he has no clue. According to almost the rest of the baseball world, the Braves have some of the best prospects in the game and one of the best farm systems. To rationalize his point by arguing that the Braves should have kept Josh Anderson (26) rather than Jordan Schafer (22) is assinine. Anyone who thinks Anderson has a better long term future than Schafer needs a reality check. By the way Furman, a lot of people think Schafer can probably steal 20 plus bases–if Cox ever lets him.
Report this comment
Bobby Cox
May 3rd, 2009
1:23 pm
Gee, Skip. I can’t agree with Furman’s article. Our farm system has been prosperous. Just check out the rosters of other teams, especially Texas. I predict with a little coaching up by Tony LaRussa and Dave Duncan, and Blaine Boyer will be the “lights out” closer we always knew he could be.
Report this comment
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 3rd, 2009
1:35 pm
The Braves are going through a rebuilding phase they just aren’t admitting it publicly.
Report this comment
rich brave
May 3rd, 2009
1:50 pm
FURMAN doesn’t need a bailout. He works for free. Tighten up BISHER. No Social Security COLA’s for the next few years.
Report this comment
rich brave
May 3rd, 2009
1:53 pm
Tampa G:
Maybe NOT seeing WAINWRIGHT as a starter in the majors is a problem within the BRAVES organization which needs to be corrected.
Report this comment
John
May 3rd, 2009
3:08 pm
This is the most inane thing I have ever seen posted on this site, and that includes the massive amount of dribble that seems to come out of Terence Moore’s computer.
You clearly don’t know baseball.
You clearly don’t know the Braves.
I could go into the myriad big time free agent contributors to the dynasty, but that has already been done. I could go into the fact that the only real difference between Anderson and Schafer is Schafer’s ability to hit something other than singles, but that’s already been done.
Please if you are going to write something about the composition of a team, try to actually look at the composition of the team. Six of eight starting position players were drafted and developed by the braves. I’d be willing to bet that beats almost any team in baseball.
You’re an idiot and really ought to be fired for posting something this stupid.
Report this comment
Andy
May 3rd, 2009
3:25 pm
I am sorry, but why on earth do they let this nice man write anymore? If he wants to write a column, smile and nod and accept it, and put the hieroglyphics-filled papyrus in a drawer. It’s sad and embarrassing.
“When you hire one Japanese player, you get two Japanese.” “It does give us a variety we haven’t had” – tell me you didn’t cringe a little.
This doesn’t even go into his laughable assessment of the baseball side of things.
Though yes, the Teixiera trades were atrocious – to give up that much for him, and then get essentially only Kotchman in return – ouch.
RF, C, SS, CF – all recent farm products and good to great major league players. Hanson coming up. (I like Kelly too, but maybe just now he’s not the shining example to point to.) What seems like a fairly loaded farm system – Freeman, Heyward, Gorkys, etc.
We fleeced Detroit on the Jurrjens trade, and while not technically a farm-system product, we traded a veteran for a young power arm and then filled the veteran’s position with somebody from the farm system.
I’m just assuming that Mr Bisher isn’t reading our comments, but I’m hoping someone at AJC is. Unless he is the editor’s grandfather, or has some compromising information on someone, or an iron-clad contract requiring you to print whatever dribbles out of his keyboard, please spare us all the embarrassment and stop running his stuff. Just because he was a good writer in the past does not give him license to blather on indefinitely.
Report this comment
varoadrunner
May 3rd, 2009
3:35 pm
Let’s niminate Bennett for “reliever if the year”…… He still escapes with a 0.77 era. That’s sick when you look at the GAME
Report this comment
IUlia
May 3rd, 2009
6:11 pm
Hello, i found a very good site with videos funny , sexy girls funny, wrecked cars, live accidents, entertainment , TV shows and other… Try it: http://www.autostrada80.com
Report this comment
Shamus Thacker
May 3rd, 2009
6:26 pm
In order for Bisher to see what we’ve written, he’d have to know how to sign on to a computer. No way.
Any scintilla of respect he’s gained from 100-years of reporting has been lost with this one piece of un-researched garbage.
If he retires today, it’s one article too late.
Report this comment
Take off the Rose-colored Glasses !
May 3rd, 2009
6:55 pm
Lose 2/3 to Houston? Pathetic ! Wren is probably entertaining offers for Hanson and Heyward right now, for some washed up reliever or slugger !
Report this comment
hop
May 3rd, 2009
9:52 pm
for all the baseball experts who are drinking the braves front office cool-aid i.e. jd and scottsbraves.
the facts are the facts:
each one of the braves farm teams are below 500 along with the parent club have little offense.
check the standings and yes, the farm records do reflect to some degree what the braves have on the farm.
gwinnett 10-14, mississippi 10-12,rome 10-14,myrtle beach 9-15.
maybe, the old man knows more about the braves than you homers do!
the braves will not be in the race this year and yes the are only three out,that is because no one in the east is playing very well,but that will change.
the braves are no better than fourth in the east.
keep on drinking the nonsense from the braves and you will have a horrible summer.
i can’t wait to hear the excuses made by the mr wrens in july when the braves are out of it!
Report this comment
rich brave
May 3rd, 2009
10:37 pm
hop:
You suck. BRAVES are better then the past three years, but no better than 86 wins tops right now. Raising the payroll to the 121 million strata will bring in a couple of heavy hitters next year, and put the ATLANTAN’s into first place.
Report this comment
Bob
May 4th, 2009
3:10 am
Check here for a more accurate account of the Braves Minor League affiliates-
http://minorsandmajors.com
Report this comment
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
May 4th, 2009
8:03 am
Oh no HOP that can’t be right cause Gwinnett has Charlie Morton & Jo Jo Reyes who Glove thinks are some sort of major league talents. They have to have a winning record….I don’t put this on Wren though, he did not give in on the Peavy talk but it is JS fault. I do agree that the Braves have had one of the top minor league systems but at this time we have traded away too many prospects for it to be considered top 10. There are no future everyday players in Gwinnett. And only one starter and 1 possible reliever.
Report this comment
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
May 4th, 2009
8:10 am
Bob, great site thanks
Report this comment
bakerman
May 4th, 2009
9:50 am
We will not ever win with Kelly Johnson at second.
Report this comment
Heavy Medlen
May 4th, 2009
10:54 am
There should be some standards when it comes to what you write. Do some research. This is crap.
Report this comment
Mitchell
May 4th, 2009
12:01 pm
Trading Josh Anderson was one more miss-step that has the Braves stumbling towards mind-numbing mediocrity.
Report this comment
glove51
May 4th, 2009
12:26 pm
To Walker, Texas Idiot: Reyes is pitching in the najors right now. He will almost certainly be a better pitcher than Bisher’s beloved Jason Marquis. How about you go back and check Tom Glavine’s records his first couple of years and let me know if he struggled a bit while learning to pitch at the major league level or check out Greg Maddux’s early Cub numbers.
Most (or ALL of) everyone who is in the business of evaluting farm systems places the Braves in the top 10.
Most people who evaluate ML talent believe Morton to be a 3-5 slot ML pitcher. If he was a polished ML starter TODAY he would be in Atlanta or would have been traded. His has K’d 30 in 26 innings, but does have 4.15 ERA.
Hanson and Medlen are no-brainers, so probably even you understand their high ceiling major league ptotential.
Even Parr and Redmond are considered fringe ML starters.
Again, the BEST prospects at everyday positions spend little or no time at AAA, unless they are completely blocked at the major league level. Is tht too difficult for you to udnerstand? That said, Brandon Jones and Blanco have teh ptoentila to be everyday major leaguers in the right situation.
We overpaid for Tex, no two ways about it, but Neftali Perez is really the only player we lost that we are likely to lament losing in the long run.
Report this comment
winterville
May 4th, 2009
12:32 pm
What a stupid column.
Report this comment
Run Heap Run
May 4th, 2009
12:51 pm
Agree with Ken Stallings (May 2nd 8:45 pm)
Just because you disagree doesn’t mean you have to act like a bunch of classless, ill-mannered rednecks. Shame on you.
Report this comment
Hoosier Aaron
May 4th, 2009
1:49 pm
I do not believe the Braves Farm System has “dried up” – especially in terms of position players. However, I’m very concerned with the lack of effective pitchers we are developing.
I have a very good understanding of “Top Prospects” – but those need to translate into “Wins” at the Major League level.
Pitching has been the backbone of this organization for almost 20 years – but I’d like to see us start getting our “Prospects” on the mound.
While I’m not pointing a finger at McDowell – I do believe that Leo’s philosphy of development cannot be disputed – in terms of results.
The job of a pitching coach is more than just teaching mechanics and certain pitches. Pitchers must have a direction (if you will)…it’s more than just executing pitches. I could write a week on this so – I’ll just say….I’m concerned that we are no longer developing effective Major League pitchers.
Report this comment
STRETCH
May 4th, 2009
2:56 pm
As Hillbilly Deluxe said, they are going through a rebuilding stage and have been since those guys up in Colorado took over.
But even with all the talent they had since 1991, they only have one ring? I was watching MLB network the other day and they ran that 1996 series with the Yankees and to this day i wonder what happened after being up 2-0 and losing that series. Then in the 99 series, they had the 2 best pitchers go back to back, but left Cox left them in the game too long and they eventually got swept.
We all know that Liberty Media doesnt care and the front office is clueless since JS left. Now add those two facts with that one common denominator of all those past post-season failures…Bobby Cox.
2005 NL Division Series Houston Astros Lost, 1-3
2004 NL Division Series Houston Astros Lost, 2-3
2003 NL Division Series Chicago Cubs Lost, 2-3
2002 NL Division Series San Francisco Giants Lost, 2-3
2001 NL Championship Series Arizona Diamondbacks Lost, 1-4
NL Division Series Houston Astros Won, 3-0
2000 NL Division Series St. Louis Cardinals Lost, 0-3
1999 World Series New York Yankees Lost, 0-4
NL Championship Series New York Mets Won, 4-2
NL Division Series Houston Astros Won, 3-1
1998 NL Championship Series San Diego Padres Lost, 2-4
NL Division Series Chicago Cubs Won, 3-0
1997 NL Championship Series Florida Marlins Lost, 2-4
NL Division Series Houston Astros Won, 3-0
1996 World Series New York Yankees Lost, 2-4
NL Championship Series St. Louis Cardinals Won, 4-3
NL Divison Series Los Angeles Dodgers Won, 3-0
1995 World Series Cleveland Indians Won, 4-2
NL Championship Series Cincinnati Reds Won, 4-0
NL Division Series Colorado Rockies Won, 3-1
1993 NL Championship Series Philadelphia Phillies Lost, 2-4
1992 World Series Toronto Blue Jays Lost, 2-4
NL Championship Series Pittsburgh Pirates Won, 4-3
1991 World Series Minnesota Twins Lost, 3-4
NL Championship Series Pittsburgh Pirates Won, 4-3
1982 NL Championship Series St. Louis Cardinals Lost, 0-3
But let Cox tell it all, like he did about the pitching yesterday…everythings fine.
Report this comment
TT44
May 4th, 2009
5:47 pm
With the talent (we) the Braves have had for the past ten to twelve yrs. We should have more than one World Series banner to hang up. You know, I know BC is a players coach and they like him so the media says…but, with Smoltz, Glavine, Avery, Maddux, heck, I couldve coached that team. I really lost alot of faith w/ BC when he sent Charlie L. in to pitch to Kirby P. in the W.Series, If I knew Charlie’s best pitch was the circle change, I KNOW KIRBY PUCKETT DID AND HE SURE DID OVER THE CENTER FIELD FENCE! GO FIGURE…..DANG IT BRAVES, GET SOME INTENSITY!!, WHERE IS THE SWAGGER? GET WITH IT FELLAS, AT LEAST PLAY ABC BASEBALL…….HECK YALL ARE KILLING US FANS WITH MEDIOCRE BASEBALL! TT44
Report this comment
Alan
May 4th, 2009
7:13 pm
I really hate to say this but I really do think that Bobby is managing as though he was still in the middle of last year when all we could do was complain about injuries to the starting pitching.
I also think that he needs to be doing a lot more coaching instead of being Mr. Nice Guy, their are times that professional atheletes need a good kick in the butt, maybe its now.
Report this comment
N8
May 4th, 2009
8:06 pm
Perhaps your writing skills have “dried up”. Assuming you ever had any.
Smoltz wasn’t our farm product you old senile coot. Do some frickin research before you type. Hell, most of the bloggers on here do more research than you do… and you get PAID for it. Talk about wasted money.
Let me fire off a few names that had a whole helluva lot to do with the Braves winning in the 90’s:
Sid Bream, Terry Pendleton, Rafael Belliard, Alejandro Pena, Greg Maddux, Fred McGriff, Marquis Grissom, Mike Devereux, Luis Polonia, Denny Neagle, Andres Galarraga, Walt Weiss, Russ Ortiz, Paul Byrd, Mike Hampton (yes – he once helped), Gary Sheffield, Brian Jordan, Kenny Lofton, Michael Tucker, Keith Lockhart, Vinny Castilla (the 2nd time around), Johnny Estrada, JD Drew.
Would you like me to keep going?
Man alive are you worthless. Next thing you know, your “partner” in crime Terrance Moore will write an article claiming the Braves farm system is racist.
You two need to find new jobs, because you aren’t very good at the one you do. DOB blows you guys away. You guys should ask him for some help.
You could certainly use it.
Report this comment
Baracked the vote!
May 4th, 2009
8:12 pm
The Braves must have a great farm system. I guess that is the reason they lost 90 games last year and their best pitcher came over from the Tigers.
Report this comment
billy mccawley
May 4th, 2009
10:35 pm
For the first time, the braves have a high draft selection in june. They really need to pick a third basemen of the future.
Report this comment
N8
May 5th, 2009
12:14 am
“The Braves must have a great farm system. I guess that is the reason they lost 90 games last year and their best pitcher came over from the Tigers.”
The problem with a great farm system, in theory, is that you won’t know you had a great farm system until you are already winning.
You use the 90 losses last year as proof that the farm system stinks?
In 1988 they lost 106 games, followed by 97 losses in 1989 and another 97 losses in 1990.
I think the farm system that they were using in the late 80’s seemed to do “OK” for them, in the 90’s, huh?
NOW, if you want to start talking about Bobby and the coaching staff getting the most out of these “top prospects”, that’s a conversation for another day. But according to all the pundits and experts (Sorry Furman, you’re NOT in that group), the Braves farm system is stacked and would be more stacked, had JS not went after Tex.
I would be more inclined to say our GM “magic” along with what magic Bobby once had, has dried up, not our scouting and farm system.
Report this comment
PMC
May 5th, 2009
12:37 am
Yeah, unfortunately it’s been 8 years since they won a postseason series.
They aren’t entertaining enough to draw anymore. They can call up Hanson all they want but until they find a new outfield capable of bringing some sort of respectable presense at the plate day in and day out…wait make that outfield AND infield…. we are pretty much going to be mediocre.
If the Tex deal did anything it exposed how thin our position players in the farm system were and it showed just how great a hitter and ballplayer Chipper Jones really is when someone (ANYONE even good players who don’t really play until after the AS Break) are lined up behind him to force teams to pitch to him.
I think they just had a bad waive of luck with some of the guys though. Francouer is turning it around. Schaffer is essentially triple A talent at this point. Left Field is waiting for Heyward to take it. First Base SHOULD be Freddie Freeman’s as early as next year…
The braves… DESPERATELY need some guys to pan out and not be the next Kelly Johnson.
Report this comment
Bob Smith
May 5th, 2009
1:52 am
Guess Bisher forgot about Gorkys Hernandez-
http://minorsandmajors.com
Report this comment
Mike
May 5th, 2009
2:05 am
The Braves have “given away the farm” the last seveal years. They may be re-stocking now, but over the years they have foolishly let some really good players go. The giveaways for Texiera were terrible. The Braves were never going to keep Tex, his agent was Boros. A future catcher & SS are given away. Incredible talent (both “home grown” & “traded for”) has been allowed to leave over the last several years – talent that is still playing, and could have kept the Braves leading the division if retained. Furcal & Betemit to the Dodgers, for players that did not even make the team. Jermaine Dye, Jason Schmidt, JD Drew, Gary Sheffield, Adam LaRoche, Andruw Jones ( yes Andruw – he just needed a hitting coach)Jason Marquis, Kevin MIllwood, Paul Byrd, etc. The list of bone headed trades is enormous. I’ve heard so much about how smart the GM was – maybe he was just lucky when he got Smoltz, Maddux, & Glavine. He wasn’t able to keep them – he allowed them all to leave. So much for loyalty, which by the way is a two war street. I do think the Braves are developing players, but the only impact player I think they have in minors is Heyward. Great kid – will be a real asset to the team and city. A Ryan Howard type of impact player. We better enjoy him – he’ll be a Yankee, Met, or Dodger in no time. No way the Braves get agressive and sign him to a long term deal.
Report this comment
The Dust
May 5th, 2009
2:48 am
Bottom line is this. The Braves were too good for too long. Drafting is the issue. When you draft in the upper 20s every year, you’re not going to get MLB talent. How did the Braves stock up on names like Smoltz, Glavine and Justice? It’s simple: they sucked during the ’80s. It may be another decade (a new owner, a new GM, a new Manager, new coaches) before the Braves get back to the playoffs. Time to pull up a chair and wait ladies and gentlemen. Marlins know how to build teams (win a World Title once every decade with a completely new team from the farm). Phillies have a terrific team offensively and play in the best homer park in baseball. The Mets will find ways to buy a playoff spot. Perhaps one day the Nationals…..nah.
Report this comment
Dave
May 5th, 2009
5:39 am
The problem is Shuerholz did not know when to shift gears he thought we were one or two players away and was proved wrong. At first the Braves were a team that spent a fair amount to get players they wanted and players wanted to come here and even stay. Then as our winning started to falter, we were put on a budget, and the rent a player for one or two years never wanted to stay. The last few trades did not work out we should have started the rebuilding earlier and we might have been further along than we are by now. Hopefully if these players in the minors leagues do reach potential in one or two years we may start to contend again then. I think the new GM Frank Wren is facing reality he got us some affordable pitching which is not the problem it is run production as injuries have exposed our thin depth of position players. We have to weather the storm and know who we are we are a pretender waiting for our young position players to reach the majors. The last few years depth has been our undoing when injuries hit we have no answer.
Report this comment
Tokyo Bravo
May 5th, 2009
7:38 am
Sad to see a once fine writer mail something in like this. Given the Braves pipeline of players like Hanson, Heyward, Freeman and others coming along, “dried up” doesn’t really sound right, does it?
Selah, you lazy journalist.
Report this comment
PMC
May 5th, 2009
9:15 am
Perhaps the coaching…. specifically the Hitting Coach… could be better.
I love TP for what he did for us as a player… I’m still not seeing ANY RESULTS at all that are relayed to him. All these young players are coming up only to continue to struggle with inconsistancy.
If they are “working on it” where are the results? How long should it take to get results? Kelly Johnson has too much talent to be this bad.
Report this comment
Justafan
May 5th, 2009
10:38 am
Thanks Mr. Bisher and Texas Ranger. Yes, take a trip across town and check out the AAA team….not much there brother! Maybe 5 0r 6 in A an AA.in the Braves future 2 are 3 years away. JS had a great ST but 7 weeks doesn’t make a ML player. Another year at AAA would have helped him where as this year may do more harm.
Some of you (know it all) would take up for management no matter what. You deserve what you got…nothing!
Report this comment
ChopChamps95
May 5th, 2009
11:25 am
While I don’t agree the farm system is dried up, it was way better a long time ago. Heyward and Freeman will be great one day. Schafer will be good, not great. He’ll never be the leadoff hitter they envisioned him to be and he’ll never have 25+ home run power unless he hits the weights everyday for the next 3 year or starts juicin’ again (which by the way produced those 10 home runs he had last year when he returned from his steroid suspension). However, with all the good players the Braves do have now in their farm system, some are bound to go elsewhere. Its just a Braves front office tradition JS started (giving up good talent for guys who either won’t stick around long or who don’t do anything for the team). Let Marquis and Wainwright go for JD Drew, 5 top prospects for 1 calendar year of Teixeira. This is also the reason why the Braves have had 6 different right-fielders since 1997 after trading Jermaine Dye for Michael Tucker and Keith Lockhart (what a joke that turned out to be).
Report this comment
Baracked the vote!
May 5th, 2009
5:20 pm
N8, I have no reason to believe the Braves have the same level of talent in the farm system today that had in the late 80s early 90s. Take a look at what the farm system has produced in the last few years. Yes, the Braves field a lot of homegrown players and it has resulted in a steady decline in wins. Also, take a look at Baseball America’s recent top prospects for the Braves. not exactly a group of all-stars
2001 Wilson Betemit, ss Yankees
2002 Wilson Betemit, ss Yankees
2003 Adam Wainwright, rhp Cardinals
2004 Andy Marte, 3b Indians
2005 Jeff Francouer, of Braves
2006 Jarrod Saltalamacchia, c Rangers
2007 Jarrod Saltalamacchia, c Rangers
Report this comment
Cameron
May 5th, 2009
6:18 pm
This article makes little sense to me. First off John Smoltz isn’t our farm product, he was in the Tiger’s farm system. Our system is full of great players who are only a year or so away from contributing. We have a chance to contend this year, what more can you ask for without being conceited?
Report this comment
Jesse
May 5th, 2009
6:51 pm
I would say the list of my favorite things in the world goes something like this: (1) Chocolate; (2) Sunshiny May days; (3) Latently racist sports journalists. Congratulations Mr. Bisher, you made the list!
Report this comment
Roy
May 5th, 2009
7:45 pm
what Braves team are you bloggers watching? FB is right on as usual and apparently ajc readers are smoking some of the dope found in clayton county this week.
Report this comment
TennesseePaul
May 5th, 2009
10:06 pm
Bad topic to pick Mr. Bisher. Six of the starting regulars are “farm” guys. The Braves farm system boasts 5 of the top 100 kids. Included in that top 100 are a total of 9 guys that were/are Braves farm products. The Adam Wainwright deal isn’t what is killing this team right now… in case you were under the gun to get this out and failed to look, Braves pitching is quite good. The Teixeira trade isn’t what is killing this team right now either. The Braves traded a short-stop (Elvis) because they had their own farm grown short stop in the majors (Yunel Escobar). A catcher (Salty) because they had their own farm grown all-star, silver-slugging catcher in the majors (McCann). And then a bunch of pitchers (which the team really isn’t dying for, reference the point earlier). What this team needs is one hitter. Just one hitter that can hit the ball out of the park. There weren’t that many available this past offseason who didn’t have any warts (bad attitudes, horrid consistancy, high dollar demands). The team stood pat. Signed a bunch of pitchers and hoped the addition of Schafer over Josh Anderson would increase overall power, and thus thump up run production. What has happened was Garrett and McCann have been injured and the team has lost some low scoring games. What will happen is anyone’s guess. But know this, the Braves have room to move for additions this summer. So long as they stay close, it ain’t over yet.
Report this comment
hop
May 6th, 2009
7:07 am
THE BRAVES will be marginial for a long time and yes, there are not many studs down there that will bring them back as contenders.
the homers on this blog can wail all they want about how strong the farm system is,but that is just “alot of braves front office BS”.
the braves will be mediocre for a long time.
too many very bad trades has brought the braves to this low point.
we need new ownership to bring the braves back,e.g. arthur blank and what he did with the falcons.that is what is needed.
the braves have way too many holes with very average players and very few players to build on.
that is what furman was trying to say,but we have so many homers here who cannot see the “forest for the trees” .
until new ownership is found, the braves will be a non-contender for a long time.
Report this comment
ghost of bob horner
May 6th, 2009
10:11 am
well, marquis has been at best a league average pitcher.
saltalamachia hasnt been that great, and, whatever happend to andy marte?
our farm team is still good, but we may never see a day again where we produce guys like avery, glavine, justice, like in the late 80’s. that just doesnt happen that often.
Report this comment
Kev
May 6th, 2009
1:09 pm
The braves are loaded with pitchers Bennitt, Morton, Nunez,Carlyle,Accosta, Ect why cant they trade two or three of thies guys and get an center fielder who has about 8 or 10 years in the game who has been benched by a younger player but still has good skills. Hell R.Henderson can do a better job than Schafer right now.
Report this comment
elliwg6
May 6th, 2009
3:40 pm
ok i get the point. bad trades were made. but the conclusion is that our farm is “dried up…?” not at all man. look at baseball america. we’re ranked 6th!!! plus Hanson is a projectable ACE. Heyward is a top ten prospect too. plus freeman. Schafer was ranked way below these guys and he’s a major league starter. also with regards to anderson. speed isnt all you need at the top of the order, ever heard of OBP?
Report this comment
Matt
May 6th, 2009
4:45 pm
AJC sports writers have become about as credible as the National Enquire. Furman my friend its about time to retire, because your Braves Baseball knowledge has “dried up”!
Report this comment
steve
May 6th, 2009
5:22 pm
Been to 10 or 11 TPC’s. Much easier to view than is the Master’s though it can’t touch the ambience. It is one of the best risk/reward courses there is on tour. For every opportunity, there is a penalty. You must put together allaspects of your game to do well. I have seen 18 (toughest hole) played easily and 2 played horribly. Great place to watch golf. Great tourney.
Report this comment
Jeff Kaldahl
May 6th, 2009
5:49 pm
Are you crazy? Do you watch golf? What gives with comments like,
“…he has finished out of the top ten, quite uncharacteristic of the man generally considered to be the best player in the world. He sat it out last year for knee surgery. This year he’s back, but his game is in recovery.”
Who doesn’t consider Tiger to be the best player in the world? As for a game in recovery…I bet most of the players on tour would like to have a “game in recovery” as successful as Tiger has been this year. 1 win and 2 or 3 other top tens (including the Masters)? I think the shear absurdity of that remark and how high we hold the bar for Tiger illustrates he is UNDOUBTEDLY the best player in the world.
Report this comment
Roy
May 6th, 2009
8:09 pm
Jeff – take a break, you are entirely too serious about this blogging. you must learn to control your anger, grasshopper.
Report this comment
Rob
May 6th, 2009
8:31 pm
Leo Mazzone grew up in rural western Maryland where a paper mill was the best job you could get. I watched Leo pitch for a small catholic school and yes, he was pretty darn good. He has been a constant student of the game and very willing to share his knowledge and experience. When he made the minor leagues, our town was thrilled and we followed his career with great interest. Yeah, he talks a bit rough at times but you had to be tough in the little town he grew up in. Does he deserve another opportunity? Yes. Can he make a difference? Yes. Does he love baseball? No doubt. Leo grew up down valley from Lefty Grove and by most accounts is the most successful athlete to come out of western Maryland, ‘cept for ol’ Lefty. I’m proud of you Leo. Hang in there. Somewhere out there is a kid with your heart who needs your teaching and skills. You will never leave baseball Leo, the game would never allow it. Rob Michael
Report this comment
wxwax
May 7th, 2009
12:21 am
Thanks, Furman. Interesting point you make. Sound like list of The Players Championship winners is like the list of PGA Championship winners: a lot of less-than-distinguished names.
You know, since Tiger’s come back from almost a year off, he’s been in contention almost every tournament. I think I’m right in saying that no other player has been as consistently dangerous.
And yet, because he hasn’t won, writers and commentators are saying his absence has given others courage and that they’ve caught up to him. Goodness, talk about have set the bar high!
Time was, a player won a couple of tournaments a year and he was doing pretty well. Now, Tiger doesn’t win in his first five tournaments and he’s slid back into the field. Funny old world.
Report this comment
Bob Salttoyourmachia
May 7th, 2009
2:32 am
Hey Bisher, what about this Kris Medlen kid-
http://minorsandmajors.com/2009/613/medlen-dominates-gwinnett-braves-win
Report this comment
hop
May 7th, 2009
5:35 am
another great article furman and you make an interesting point concerning tiger,but it happens with other great champions both individual/team sports.
there are some venues that cause players not to perform as well as other sites.
saying that, i would not bet against tiger in this event,but it will be interesting to see how it all plays out!
Report this comment
ProScout
May 7th, 2009
10:29 am
Surprise, surprise, another journalist who doesn’t know his a$$ from a hole in the ground.
Report this comment
Mikey
May 7th, 2009
10:08 pm
Furman, Thanks for only mentioning Tiger once.
I’m a huge Tiger fan and I get embarrassed by the constant fawning over him by the TV talking heads.
There are others in the tournament.
Report this comment
Carlyle
May 7th, 2009
10:52 pm
Furman, Bob Tway posted a double-digit score on the 17th one year. I don’t recall the exact number; but, I’m sure an experienced sportswriter could research it rather quickly–or perhaps an intern. Do you have an intern? Do you need one? I’m not very busy right now. This economy is brutal.
Report this comment
johnd
May 8th, 2009
12:24 am
Furman, Time to hang it up, buddy. Wally Butts and “the bear” are long gone, and you can’t just mail it in now…
Report this comment
David
May 8th, 2009
5:18 am
Players Championship is something I always keep a track of. It has the ability to spring some surprises and the unexpected. @Mikey I agree wholeheartedly. I am a big Tiger Woods fan. But seriously, there are other players. Give them due credit. I am a follower of Sean these days. He’s been rising in the PGA rankings (courtesy Trackle – http://www.trackle.com/catalog/details/name/Track-PGA-tour/a/150002) and I think he has great potential.
Report this comment
Bookie
May 8th, 2009
6:30 am
Good job, Furman-You’re amazing-I’ve been reading you for a 100 years and you only get better! Free Ferris Wheel ride-I love it!
Report this comment
Blazerfan
May 8th, 2009
8:54 am
Furman, the TPC is my favorite tournament! I love the tournament and the Greater Jax area. To me this is the #1 tournament in professional golf. And I agree with you guys, Tiger is great, but there are many other players and the TV people should give all of them their due credit.
Report this comment
MP
May 8th, 2009
9:22 am
We have never had 5 majors and never will.
All of you who mentioned “you know who” just helped the talking heads. The problem with the media (aka paper, radio, tv, magazine et. al.) in focusing so much on “you know who” their credibility as a trusted, objective, source of accurate information drops. They are clearly more interested in “stories” and making money, than in reporting the facts.
Furman is old school and I think he can be trusted but most can’t be trusted and we should all be wary of believing anything we hear or read. They are selling information and will do anything to do so.
Report this comment
cluett peabody
May 8th, 2009
9:56 am
Hey why not call every other tournament a major that way tigger would show up et. al. and the tour would thrive.
Report this comment
wxwax
May 8th, 2009
3:31 pm
Furman, you raise a point that intrigues me.
I know that the 17th is considered a gimmick. But I don’t understand why.
What makes one hole a legitimate test of a golfer’s skill and another a “gimmick”? If the 17th had a length of grass between the hole and the tee, would it suddenly be considered a fair but easy par 3?
Other holes rely on treacherous water to intimidate golfers and sink their scores. Why would they not also be considered “gimmicks”?
I’m just curious why this hole is so maligned.
Thanks.
Report this comment
JD
May 10th, 2009
3:21 am
The Braves have the best farm system in baseball! Barack Obama is hope and change! Brawndo has what plants crave, it’s got electrolytes!
Report this comment
jsmtz
May 10th, 2009
9:28 am
Do you even follow the organization? What do you know about the farm system? Blauser was good for one year and then went to the Cubs. Mercker was good for one year as well and then ended up with the Reds and then 5 other teams. Avery and Wholers were good for two each. And, Stanton? He never did anything for the organization. He had more success with the Yankees. Seriously, get your facts straight or quit writing about the Braves. You don’t know what you are talking about.
Report this comment
ozzie
May 10th, 2009
11:04 am
I believe the point is apart from Hanson and perhaps Medlen (which they don’t need now as much as they need power offense) all the help the Braves could summon sits with 18-20 players lower in the system. The odd 18-21yo will come up and stick but it is not the norm.
There is little to no offensive or position player talent in AAA that could right this ship. Gwinnett is struggling as a team. Their OF is sub par etc.
While I am not as down on the prospects as Furman he is correct. The pipeline seems to be log jammed in A and to a degree AA. Gorkys looks good but he is a year away.
Remove Freeman or Heyward from the mix and there is no on from AAA down to A with much game changing offensive talent. They look promising (e.g. Gorkys) but after how Schafer has struggled don’t expect Wren to pull the trigger so easily in ST 2010 (re: very young rookies).
Many people are assuming Heyward starts in LF in April 2010 and Freeman is up later in that year; this may not happen. So in the interim they are wasting millions on over the hill FA and or accepting sub-par play from position players b/c they have no other options.
Put it this way if Infante (who has been great) does down for the season the Braves are sunk unless KJ stops being so bi polar. A bench player should not mean that much to a team.
The Braves rely so much on their bench b/c the usually have little AAA talent ready to go. Not since 2005 when the baby Braves came up have they been a phone call away from AA or AAA ready to go talent.
Report this comment
brent a.
May 10th, 2009
1:25 pm
I hate it when people make comments (in this case Mr. Bisher) like, “no one has factored the loss of McCann into the equation.”
Yes Furman, no one has noticed the absence of McCann. The whole story about his eyes/lasik/contacts/glasses has gone completely ignored by the fans and the mainstream media.
Report this comment
wxwax
May 10th, 2009
8:55 pm
Anyone who watched Woods play on Saturday knows he’s fighting his game. That he was in the final pairing was more a testimony to the failure of others than to his own great golf.
And the fact that he’s been hanging around the leaders since he returned from knee surgery is a testament not to the quality of his golf, but to the strength of his resolve and his will to win.
A man whose game is in a bit of a shambles is still nudging the leaders every time he plays. It’s quite remarkable.
Report this comment
P
May 10th, 2009
9:20 pm
Tiger, Tiger, Tiger….He is fighting himself. I don’t think he will win for a while. Nice try Furman. Tiger was never in it.
Report this comment
Richard Dawson
May 11th, 2009
8:15 am
Tiger’s lost it. On to the next superstar.
Report this comment
Dave
May 11th, 2009
1:18 pm
I’m a retired old pro athlete, both knees and both shoulders replaced by Dr. Andrews, you hit it on the head “wxwax” . . . “A man whose game is in a bit of a shambles is still nudging the leaders every time he plays. It’s quite remarkable.” Remarkable, is an understatement given the level of competitive play on any professional level.
Having played on myself in spite of continuous surgeries to repair issues that slowed me, I can say from experience that your statement is a very profound one, indeed.
Report this comment
FLATS
May 11th, 2009
4:09 pm
Does Tiger play with his own balls?
Report this comment
heartofdarkness
May 12th, 2009
11:05 am
When I saw the headline, I thought, what an odd place for a story about the Tamil Tigers, down to their last redoubt in Sri Lanka. I never thought the AJC sports pages were so… cosmopolitan. Well, congratulations and keep up the good work. Raji
Report this comment
JoeinDE
May 12th, 2009
11:42 am
Cody Johnson is a name that has not been mentioned yet by anyone here as a possible impact position player from our farm system. Here are his numbers from Rome last year.
AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS
.252 127 468 62 118 26 1 26 89 40 177 8 3 .307 .479 .786
Compare that to Ryan Howard in A- ball
.280 135 493 56 138 20 6 19 87 66 145 5 4 .367 .460 .827
Johnson has improved his walk rate this year at MB while hitting for more power (and K’s).
.288 30 104 17 30 7 0 11 23 15 41 3 1 .378 .673 1.051
There are also some really good looking starters at Rome
Jacob Thompson – 35 IP, 3 BB, 26K
Ezekial Spruill – 34 IP, 7BB, 30K
Richard Sullivan – 29 IP, 5 BB, 27K
J.J. Hoover – 23 IP, 2 BB, 29K (only 2GS)
Report this comment
sara
May 12th, 2009
6:43 pm
Tiger is one of the greatest golfers who ever lived, and I’m sure that all the sports writers, TV announcers, and others can hardly stand the fact that Tiger has not won so much recently. Had he not been chasing Nicklaus’ record last year at the US Open and withdrawn from that event, I’m sure his leg would not have been damaged so badly. He will return, but in the meantime it is good to see others win.
Report this comment
Sspruill
May 12th, 2009
9:21 pm
maybe before you say there is no talent in the braves farm system from local breeding you should check the front page of the AJC, my 19-year old little brother IS the next Braves phenom. Right outta Marietta, bitches.
Report this comment
Belva Lunsford
May 12th, 2009
10:59 pm
Thought you would like to know that Ruby Young of Omega, Ga. died May 8,2009. She was the lady who led the Omega High School boys baseball team to the state playoffs in the late 50s. She also coached the girls and boys high school basketball teams. She was quite a lady and coach and she left quite an impression on the lives she touched. I am pretty sure you wrote an article about her earlier.
Report this comment
BA
May 14th, 2009
3:46 pm
Who’s pitching on Saturday?
Report this comment
Song G
May 14th, 2009
8:50 pm
and………??? What’s your point? Does it matter? Does it indicate anything one way or another? Is there a deeper issue this trend is indicative of? Or is this another “boy the old days sure were great and these days sure are strange” column?
Report this comment
Boots
May 15th, 2009
7:12 am
Song G — You really come across as an Ahole. Too bad we don’t have retro-active birth control.
Report this comment
Dawg Daddy
May 15th, 2009
8:01 am
Furman: Maybe American players needs to quit whining, man up and play better golf. We’re all about competition, right?
Report this comment
Mark
May 15th, 2009
10:36 am
I’ve said it many times, but many of these trends began with the All-exempt tour in the USA. American players are not toughened by weekly qualifying and are perfectly content with big endorsements and mediocre finishes each week. That does not prepare them for playoffs, Ryder Cup pressure or Major Championship intensity.
Report this comment
Song G
May 15th, 2009
3:32 pm
good job Boots! You’re a winner!
Report this comment
kevin clarke, member pga of AMERICA
May 15th, 2009
11:29 pm
furman, please retire, or choose to not write about golf, you are not relevant at all…what is your point, golf has never been more relevant as a ressult of tiger woods, the most relevant athlete in the world, whom is an american!…golf is relevant world wide, because of players such as henrik stenson, padraig harrington, angel cabrera…the nfl wishes it could be as relevant world wide as professional golf…stay away from golf you hack!…give your cronies another “relevant story” about bobby dodd and grant field!!…and, be sure to include general neyland!
Report this comment
dave
May 16th, 2009
6:29 pm
Gotta give it to ya’ Furman, you stirred it up this week . . .
Report this comment
Jay
May 17th, 2009
12:15 pm
I’ve long respected you as a writer, but this piece is a “swiiinngg anna miss.” Our lineup and dugout are filled with products from the farm; with more that will do well in the big currently in Triple A. Just because we’re doing it a little different than a decade ago doesn’t mean its the wrong approach.
Report this comment
j brave
May 18th, 2009
12:29 am
whose worst the braves or there play by what if guys/bobby must go.3ed to 1st double pick,get real..
Report this comment
Mustard Green
May 20th, 2009
8:24 pm
Excellent column. Some people just get angry because every golf article isn’t about their boy Tiger. He has not been making his usual number of lucky putts this year (except Bay Hill). Thus, he’s not at the center of the golf world. Get over it! I’m sure he’ll play well at the US Open as he’s had plenty of practice from the rough this year.
Report this comment
Tim
May 22nd, 2009
12:17 pm
Mustard Green, sorry you can’t stand it that golf is only relevant these days because of Tiger, but that’s a fact. There isn’t a player out there who can touch him. Lucky putts? Try effort genius, he has more desire than every single PGA player combined.
Report this comment
ATL Fan 1975
May 25th, 2009
10:11 am
The Texiera trade will haunt us for years to come. It will be more noticeable if the “golden 5″ were not playing in Texas (no playoff series victories ever). However, this may change for them this year and when it does the Texiera trade will feel alot worse. Andrus is an electric shortstop at 20 years old (gold glove talent). Salty has dramatically upgraded his defense and has recetnly found his power from both sides of the plate. He is also a vocal leader within the clubhouse. Harrison (except for the first tow starts of the year) has been throwing lights out. Two complete games in his last three and 2.15 ERA. He gets the start today agains the Yanks so lets see what he has. But Perez (still 20yrs old) will make this trade one of the worst in our history! His stuff is electric and he as the potential to be a #1 starter for the next 10 years. The Rangers say they will bring him close to the all star break. As I said, because the Rangers are not the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, etc this trade is still below the radar. But once Texas gets into the playoffs or contends late in the season this trade will be all of the talk…because it will be the “golden 5″ who are largely responsible for a quick turnaround! I hated it from the day it was announced, and its only going to get worse!
Report this comment
dbc
May 25th, 2009
10:16 pm
Does this guy write more than one column a month?
Report this comment
steven
May 26th, 2009
7:39 am
Furman- time to retire– besides the fact the braves have pitching depth in the Minors– cf looks deep for years– also they got Kinshen for attendance not because the did not have pitchers in minors–
Report this comment
MontanaBravo
May 26th, 2009
2:46 pm
I don’t even know what to say about a “reporter” who doesn’t know that Merker was obtained from the Reds and Smoltz from the Tigers??? Great research you deserve your paycheck.
Report this comment
Furman's righ
May 28th, 2009
8:46 am
check out the post by Burnette: http://foreblackgolfers.blogspot.com/
Report this comment
but we've got Anthony Kim...
May 28th, 2009
12:41 pm
THAT OBJECT IN THE MIRROR IS CLOSER THAN IT APPEARS
For a golf geek such as myself there is nothing better than waking up early Saturday and Sunday morning to live coverage of the European PGA Tour on The Golf Channel.
Renton Laidlaw’s familiar voice and hilarious quips are a major part of that experience and he will be sadly missed when he steps aside someday.
Granted, it’s not the PGA Tour (American) but it’s pro golf at its finest, nonetheless.
Sergio Garcia recently inferred that the European Tour is “catching up” with its American counterpart, but it’s my contention that it already has.
Just examine the list of winners of golf’s four major tournaments for the past 5 or 6 years.
For what do we owe this phenomenon?
PGA tour players are not as hungry. They’re actually a little spoiled.
PGA tour players are waited on hand and foot.
They always play in perfect or near perfect weather on immaculately groomed courses.
Tiger’s presence has vaulted purses into the stratosphere such that PGA Tour players who don’t even finish high enough on the money list to keep their playing privileges still earn over a million dollars per season in prize money.
PGA Tour players don’t need passports, VISA’s or immunizations for Yellow Fever and Hepatitis.
PGA Tour players have foul weather gear in their bags at all times but their’s collects dust.
Most PGA Tour players leave the country only during the off-season when they are on vacation.
European PGA Tour players, however, are more like us.
They carry their own bags and rent their own cars for the week.
They play on greens that are akin to those at that one muni in your town that actually has a competent greenskeeper with an appropriate budget and not the fabled East Lake Golf Club.
Their purses are not half as big as those stateside.
And to see a European tour player playing in foul weather gear is more the rule than the exception.
I know that hindsight is 20/20 but PGA Tour players not named Tiger Woods or Phil Mickelson have NO shot when seasoned, battle-tested, champion European Tour pros suddenly appear in their rear-view mirrors.
Report this comment
Larry
May 29th, 2009
6:41 pm
Mr. Bisher,
I think the world of your writing and loyalty, but I fear the latter has blinded your good judgment! If you can just for a moment seperate the emotion from the opinion, cleary you must see a highly noticable flaw in Francoeur’s swing. More candidly, he has one of the most unnatural, awkward looking swings in the game and truly exemplifies the term “hacker” that defines one who swings freely and wildly with little or no idea about where the ball is or will be when it crosses the plate.
He’s a good kid, with a good arm and is pretty good defensively, but even an average major league hitter he will never be.
Report this comment
61 year Braves Fan
May 29th, 2009
6:57 pm
Jeff has never learned the strike zone. Moves his head and tries to kill every pitch. Has no patience
to work a pitcher. He swings on the same plane no matter where the pitch is and gets himself out by
swinging at pitches out of the strike zone. The fact that he has regressed is another indication of what
I have always suspected. Terry Pendelton is a lousy hitting coach. Jeff could use a year at Double A
level and if he doesn’t improve, release him.
Report this comment
JP
May 29th, 2009
7:00 pm
How much of Frenchy’s problem with the bat is Pendleton’s fault. He is waiting for Cox to leave and believes he is in line for the Top job. He is a joke. No one under his tutelage has gotten better. Before anyone says Chipper, STOP, he is and always has been a better hitter than Pendleton. TP needs to go and now, he bares alot of responsibility for this mess. PS……Why on earth is Buddy Carlyle in a major league uniform, IF he owns a jersey is should have come from the stadium shops not the clubhouse. If this Team doesnt care, why should we.
Report this comment
The Grinch
May 29th, 2009
7:16 pm
No slumping hitter is going to get better under Pendleton; it’s sad to say his only chance at a solid career is to go to another team. TP is an excellent fellow and was a good hitter in his day, but like the guy who’s real good at math but terrible at teaching it…well, let’s just say a change is in order.
Report this comment
Sage of Bluesland
May 29th, 2009
7:38 pm
Karma haunts yet another vaunted ‘Hometown Hero’.
Remember when ‘Frenchy’ (I hate that nickname) was in the draft pool? He informed many of the top-drafting (i.e. pitiful) teams that drafting him would be a waste, as he was on his way to Clemson to play football, etc.
Then, when the ‘good’ local team calls late in the first round, he reverses stance and signs up with the flavor-of-the-year!
Reminds me of when Todd Van Poppel, according to some the consensus top-pick, did the same thing back in 1990–and then punked when the Oakland A’s (a ‘hot’ team at the time) came calling late in the first round.
The lowly Braves–owner of that first pick–went with their second choice (or so it was said; as the Braves were stockpiling young arms by the boatload with all kinds of draft picks, both low and high)…That choice? Chipper Jones.
Van Poppel had a less-than-impressive career; the A’s were never too much of a threat from that point on (for sake of an argument); and the Braves went on to become a fairly good and consistently winning and contending team.
Karma strikes again, “Frenchy”…I hate that nickname…I also don’t cut any slack for Hometown Heroes–too much silly emotion clouds good judgment when it comes to dealing with them (Exhibit A to that is the most overrated, overpaid linebacker I’ve ever seen, one Keith Brooking…He of the ankle-grabs eight yards downfield…)
I’m glad Mr. Bisher finally woke up and contributed an article…It’s good to have you back!
Report this comment
Sage of Bluesland
May 29th, 2009
7:42 pm
Oh, and one more thing, as far as the hitting coach goes, things will never get better until Bobby ‘Wait-for-the-three-run-homerun’ Cox is gone.
Clarence Jones, I mean Terry Pendleton? Give me a break. Same song, different verse…Same conductor.
Same results.
No pressure on the opposing pitchers.
Wild swings and untimely strikeouts.
No steals and certainly no ‘A-B-C’ baseball.
Same results.
The definition of insanity, indeed…
Report this comment
Ron Roberts
May 29th, 2009
7:46 pm
He worked w/Texas’ hitting coach over the summer, had a good spring and good start to the season, early; he fell off-track in a road series at Philadelphia, and Coach Terry Pendleton hasn’t yet gotten him back on-track.
Seems to me when coached, Francoeur responded in the off-season. Now he’s unable to work with the Rangers’ hitting coach, so he has only the BRAVES’ hitting coach to work with, and the results speak volumes.
Report this comment
JAKE
May 29th, 2009
8:03 pm
I think if we had a true big bat in the outfield it would take a load of the pressure off of Frenchy. he needs to settle in to being .260, 15 to 20 bombs, and 90 to 100 ribbies. if we had just one more big bat he could settle in to his true potential,which is not as lofty as everyone wants it to be. too much is expected of him alot like Andruw, I’ve always said the worst thing to ever happen to Andruw was hitting 51 bombs, he(frenchy) is what he is, if he goes to Boston do you think they’ll expect anything? Frenchy if you’re reading these blogs like they say you are; first of all, STOP! and second, keep your chin up….here are some numbers for you; Dale Murphy in 1988 160 games, .226 avg 24 bombs, 77 RBIs , 313 obp. chew on that for an atlanta legend, there were other similar yrs. he was my hero as a kid. maybe that’s a bad point considering that was after he won 2 straight mvps….. but just keep trying and not everyone in atlanta has given up on you
Report this comment
Chop It Up All-star
May 29th, 2009
9:22 pm
JP, I don’t necessarily disagree with you about Pendleton, but Francoeur went down to Texas and worked with a quote, unquote “hitting guru” and he looks worse than he ever has. Seems to me at some point you have to point the finger at the student and not the teacher.
We’re not in the locker room, and as DOB pointed out, not one player has ever criticized TP for his teachings or his method. Maybe, just maybe the guy (Francoeur) is getting in his own way and needs a change of scenery (e.g. the bench, AAA or a new ballclub altogether) until he can figure it out.
Report this comment
the truth...
May 29th, 2009
9:37 pm
Maybe we need to swap Jeff for one of the top prospects in Gwinnett and let him get his head straight….and make no mistake the problem is between his ears, not in his physical makeup…
Do any of you remember back in ‘91 when the young Braves were scrappin’ and we were tomahawkin’ and chanting that lovely battle cry?…remember how a very young John Smoltz had similar problems?… but John’s were on the mound throwing the baseball…
Jeff’s are at the plate….
A fellow named “Jack Llewelyn” was enlisted to help John get his head on straight…I’d say it was money well spent…
Anyone remember Jack sitting behind the plate in the stands with his red shirt on so John could get his focus back from time to time?
So my proposal is bring back Mr. Llewelyn and help Jeff get hold of that part of him that has always been the winner he is…
I see where Jack gets $20,000 bucks a pop for a speach these days (or at least the folks that book him do)….so let’s see at maybe $10K per game what does that work out to…???? hmmmmmmmmmmmm 1.62 big ones per year?
I’d say that would be a small price to get Jeff’s head screwed on right again…and I bet he’d take a package deal that would be a win-win…for both the Braves and Mr. Llewelyn….and of course for us fans…
Consideering the Red Sox paid $50,000,000 just for the rights to negotiate with DiceK I think that is well worth a venture…remember a Chipper or a Texeira rakes in $15-20 million a year….so let’s get to working on Jeff’s…
Anyone know Jack’s number?….ok Schuerholt….ring him up now, time’s awasting…
the truth….
Report this comment
bob
May 29th, 2009
10:20 pm
Play Kelly Johnson in CF, put Prado at 2nd until Infante returns and play Diaz more in lf
Report this comment
lagnamor
May 29th, 2009
11:50 pm
Bisher Please, How long you want to wait. Frenchy is a joke and has had special treatment ever since he’s been here.. Bobby Cox kisses his A@@ and leaves him in every game no matter what. TP and Cox both need to be fired and replaced by Ned Yost . Let Yost clean house and hire his own coaches. Time for all relics to hang it up.
Report this comment
braveshater
May 30th, 2009
1:20 am
Patience my ass. He sucks, how many more years does it take to figure that out. Get real!
Report this comment
erikwb21
May 30th, 2009
1:50 am
Everyone on here that believes the braves are done need to rid themselves of braves memorabilia and never come back!!!!!!!! 14 pennants in a #$%#$%#ing. row!! what other team has done that??? in any sport, without coming remotely close to the highest payroll.. its called good business, you have to make risky decisions. The braves management understand this better than anyone. Think about all the players you have mentioned in trades… the best player is adam wainright and he would have a hard time being our third starter!!!! all of the rest would not crack the line up!! this ought to tell you that management has not failed at all .Yes they have given up some talent but in return have solidified themselves at every position except outfield and to my knowledge they have not traded any outfielders..have they?? or any big bats?? This is the braves game, to stock pile talent in positions where most teams fail to and develop them to be trade bait when they need a player or two to be a contender. The only issue the Braves have is that they have relied on old pitchers to get them to the playoffs!
Report this comment
Bravesfan-1995isover
May 30th, 2009
2:19 am
Mr. Bisher,
The problem is not all with Jeff. I have a much bigger problem with our hitting coach, Terry Pendleton. I have never, during a game, seen T.P. go up to one of our guys and give him positive reinforcement. I have never heard a player, with the exception of Gregor Blanco, say T.P. has helped him.
Why do our guys have to go to Texas to get instruction? Because T.P. is clearly incompetent. I think a better hitting coach could fix a lot of his (and the rest of the team’s) woes. It isn’t 1991 anymore. It was a good run, but the nostalgia has to go.
These new faces can’t succeed until the old faces stop getting in the way.
Bravesfan out.
Report this comment
froggy
May 30th, 2009
2:24 am
Furman: From a long-ago colleague, glad you are one relic who is still swingin’! But, hey, pay attention to these posts and banter back from time to time. Makes it all more lively.
Jake, sorry, and to paraphrase Billy Martin ridiculing comparing Reggie Jackson to Willie Mays, Frenchy couldn’t carry Murf’s jockstrap. Dude was an awesome ballplayer in all phases, and if the crappy Astroturf fields back then in St. Louis, Philly, Montreal, Cincy, etc, had not destroyed his knees Lord knows what numbers he would have put up to perhaps get him to Cooperstown.
Anybody remember Brad Komminsk? Jeff F. unfortunately has the same stiff, lurching, hacking style at the plate. Sorry to say, stardom is not likely to happen for him. Unfortunately, the ranks are thin in replacing him.
Report this comment
uga-brave
May 30th, 2009
2:29 am
furman,
once again you have proved yourself.
the dude is done. i know he talked to to you last year. said it wont happen again.
he is right. the numbers are not a slump or a trend.
he is a .240 .600 .ops guy.
he has no power or speed. the sample size proves it.
3000 plate appearances prove it.
cmon furman you are a long time evaluator of talent.
let it go.
the guy is somewhat of a excuse maker.
cant be his fault. beeched about hitting in front of schafer.
for once in his career could he say i stink.
maybe going down is best for me and this organization.
well that ego wont let it happen.
that is why most braves fans have turned on him.
nobody likes a guy that will not admitt their short comings.
plus he is jealous of macc’s success.
Report this comment
uga-brave
May 30th, 2009
2:50 am
furman,
by the way dave braine has put your beloved yellow jackets in a major hole.
mr. radojaic, spelled really wrong, from lsu has told several people the the georgia tech athletic budget might need tarp funds.
their new motto should be come see tech play virginia and bring a friend.
that should put 40,000 in bobby dodd.
how about scheduling teams outside the conference.
how about going home and home with arizonia state, oklahoma state, or colorado.
yeah, i know tough to do. you gotta play duke, n.c state, miami, and clemson. that darn jaybo sweeney.
what a conference.
paul hewitt? different day.
Report this comment
A Patient Fan
May 30th, 2009
3:53 am
BRAVO FURMAN
Furman, I couldn’t agree more!
Yes fans, lets give Jeff more of a chance — in exhibiting some real patience. After all the season’s only a little more than a quarter over.
He has shown some signs of coming around — in spurts granted. But signs nonetheless.
Keep in mind too, that Jeff — as of Friday night’s action — is 2nd on the Braves in RBI’s with 23 (Kotchman and Escobar are tied with 24) and third in total bases with 65 (behind Escobar with 71 and Kotchman with 69). That’s ahead of Chipper, McCann, and Johnson in both categories!
It surely must have easier to play in pre-blog days. I hope at least that Jeff is staying away from reading internet newspapers.
Except for Furman’s article that is.
Hang in there Jeff! There are fans who are pulling for you!
And do continue to keep in contact with Rudy, showing patience yourself in keeping with his instruction!
Report this comment
yogi2
May 30th, 2009
4:47 am
FRANQUER IS A JOKE.JUST RELEASE THE BUM. SHAFER,NORTON,FRANQUER,AND JOJO SHOULD BE BANNED FROM BASEBALL FOR IMPERSONATING REAL PLAYERS
Report this comment
bravos for life
May 30th, 2009
5:31 am
More patience? What is more patience than the past 3 years?
Report this comment
Keef1234
May 30th, 2009
5:34 am
what I find most disturbing is Jeff’s arrogance! You CAN have arrogance if you’re Ted Williams…Somehow he flew thru the minors–and picked up bad habits until opposing pitchers figured him out. The Braves sent him to the minors where he belonged, JEFF WHINES AND CRIES and then he is brought up! 3 games was NOT enough. 3 MONTHS in the minors maybe. Its partially the Braves fault for coddling him…
Report this comment
The Grinch
May 30th, 2009
6:04 am
GREGOR BLANCO is the only one who credits TP with help? The guy can’t even hit at Gwinnett! I rest my case.
Report this comment
Braves Fan
May 30th, 2009
6:21 am
I still do not understand the reasoning on getting rid of JF. You are not going to get much. Send him to the minors to try to correct the problems. If Jeff does not take that well again, he needs to to have some mental adjustment and then work on the swing. He should have stayed down last year for at least two months. I blame the Braves for not leaving him down. Too many young prospects are gone. You can’t get a big bat for JF, unless you put in one or two frontline prospects. The Braves can ill afford to do this. We also don’t need a big bat that is a rental or is 38 years old. It is time to show some patience and take a gamble on Jeff, not some old retread.
Report this comment
bob
May 30th, 2009
6:27 am
The problems are too deep to fix with a dump Frenchy movement.
1. Chipper will be hurt again this year.
2. KJ will continue to be a streak hitter.
3. LF will produce neither speed nor power.
4. TP will not be able to ‘cure’ JS of his strikeout sickness.
5. Management will trade Medlin and others for some short term fix. This is the reason Medlin is in the majors….to showcase to other teams.
Braves do not need a short term fix….the team needs a complete overhaul.
BC and TP must go. BC was spoiled by a great rotation and is making decisions based upon his memories of players past and not of rookies and players into the future. TP has done nothing for any hitter on the team.
Report this comment
Ron E.
May 30th, 2009
6:37 am
The Braves could have patience with Francoeur if he were a slick fielding 2nd baseman or shortstop. His hitting is totally unacceptable for a corner outfielder and it’s getting worse year by year. The Braves can’t keep running him out there to strikeout or hit into a double play with runners on base if they are still hoping to contend this year. It’s time to move on. Outfielders who can hit better than Francoeur is hitting this year are a dime a dozen and replacing his “production” shouldn’t be difficult.
Report this comment
johnny bravo
May 30th, 2009
6:41 am
he needs to be patient down in the minors, more than a couple days too, either he can hit at this level, or he can’t.
Report this comment
Loyal
May 30th, 2009
6:59 am
You want my thoughts on Jeff? Check out this blog I wrote. While there, feel free to look around at our other blogs
http://tsdovertime.wordpress.com/
Report this comment
ElonBrave
May 30th, 2009
7:13 am
You’ve got some nerve, Bisher…
Report this comment
ElonBrave
May 30th, 2009
7:14 am
Ok. That was harsh. It’s just that we’ve waited for the last three seasons… a little hard to take being asked to wait longer. This isn’t a slump, it’s a body of work.
Report this comment
Woolz
May 30th, 2009
7:21 am
Enter your comments here
Report this comment
James Johnson
May 30th, 2009
7:23 am
I think Jeff needs to either be sent across town to Gwinnett until he can prove he can hit, or traded for a prospect. Clearly he is not going to get better by hacking away at every pitch sent his way. He has never adjusted to the major leagues and every scouting report has him figured out. In the meantime Diaz is sitting on the bench ready to knock the cover off the ball every time he comes up. Time to let the egos go and think about the team. And we don’t need another future Yankee after one year – we to develop young talent.
Report this comment
Woolz
May 30th, 2009
7:28 am
The problem isn’t Francour, KJ, or JoJo or any of the other guys. It is management. At what level I don’t know. But either the wrong players are getting to the Majors or they are being mishandled when they get there. It is one or the other or as I suspect, both. That is what you Mr. Bisher should be talking about. Heck, all these ballplayers want to succeed and should know how to play the game. How come they can’t play consistent good baseball? Something is in their way.
Report this comment
Drixie
May 30th, 2009
7:58 am
Mr. Bisher:
It’s heartwarming that you want to give Jeff more time, but how do you support your argument? Just saying this does not make Jeff a better hitter. He has tremendous natural talent, but he also seems to be trying to carry The Braves, something he cannot do with his lack of major league hitting ability. He seemed to be turning a corner at the beginning of the season, but has reverted back to old (bad) habits. Having Jordan Schaefer hitting behind him has only worsened his hitting – pitchers can play with Jeff in and out of the strike zone because they know 1) he will swing at mostly anything, and 2) if he does get onbase, Schaefer will strikeout, and then comes the pitcher’s spot.
Report this comment
Marty Perez
May 30th, 2009
8:10 am
The problem has been that there has been way too much patience on the part of management. Francouer is simply a bad player and has been so for several years. His lack of power and inability to get on base is remarkable when one considers how much playing time he has received. He won’t get any better. His bat is slow. He’s stubborn. He’s really not very bright, even by baseball standards. And he doesn’t take responsibility for himself. His sense of entitlement is only encouraged by the enablers like Bisher and people on this blog who make excuses for him and want to lay the blame on Pendleton.
Report this comment
thom
May 30th, 2009
8:14 am
Furman Bisher and Terance Moore are two of the most despised people in the state of Georgia. I really thought the AJC had parted ways with both of these individuals. Unfortunately I was wrong. Dr. Thomas Johnson
Report this comment
Mark C.
May 30th, 2009
8:18 am
TP isn’t the problem. It’s the players. He can’t make Francouer swing at strikes and he can’t make Schafer ready for the majors. Like Roger McDowell last year,
Report this comment
varodrunner
May 30th, 2009
8:19 am
Patience? Oh come on now….. How long should we be patient while he will not adjust. For a brief period when he did not swing for a homerun to left on every swing, he looked ok, just ok. But now that the old Jeff is back and trying to pul everything, he stinks.
Report this comment
Maestro
May 30th, 2009
8:24 am
Brad Komminsk!! Good call! I’m still laughing and I couldn’t agree more with the comparison. Yes, we must be patient with young Mr. Francouer. We must not rush him to order what he wants from Waffle House for the meal he be eating on the bus that will haul his sorry carcass outa Dodge. Bisher, when are you going to hang it up? You haven’t saved enough money over the years to pay your own way to the Kentucky Derby and the Super Bowl? Give up that press pass and take the same bus Frenchy’s taking. Sionara!!!
Report this comment
Shoeless Joe
May 30th, 2009
8:25 am
Mr. Bisher:
Patience is a virtue but in Jeff’s case it’s getting rather expensive. His current $3MM+ salary places a premium on current performance. Braves management overeacted to last years pitching woes by overcommitting in that department in the offseason, leaving few resources to shore up position player shortcomings. Bobby Cox believes solid pitching covers up shortcomings on offense and defense. Frank Wren seems to agree with him since he provided two additional top of the line rotation additions in the offseason. Now Bobby has to earn his salary by proving that his philosphy still holds true in a division with offensive powerhouses like the Phils.
Report this comment
varodrunner
May 30th, 2009
8:29 am
After reading this article/column I think it’s time for Furman to mosey off to wherever it is that washed up columnists go. This is strictly the ramblings of an out of touch old man. Andruw Jones is having a decent year because he is there with Jaramillo and not here with Pendleton. If we had Jaramillo here, Jeff would be better, but Jeff cannot defeat those demons in his head that tell him to pull every pitch, regardless its location.
What was the point of this article?
Report this comment
country boy
May 30th, 2009
8:30 am
Thank you for your view Mr. Bisher. My thought is that perhaps Francour is a scapegoat at some level for this poor team. Yes I know he is floundering but almost our entire lineup of position players is too. We have a lineup of midlevel (at best) and lower level major leaguers with no speed and no power. If we rid ourselves of Francour will it really make Anderson,Johnson,Kotchman,Schafear,Diaz,Norton, Prado, Infantae….. improve ??? Our problems go much deeper than just JF. And I agree with others that TP should be removed NOW and Bobby should have proudly retired at least two years ago.
Report this comment
Reno
May 30th, 2009
8:33 am
Mr. Bisher,
Francoeur’s problem is very likely that he cannot “see” well enough to hit major league pitching with any consistency. Recall his minor league facial fracture(s). Last summer it was reported in AJC sports pages that Francoeur had experienced some “deterioration of his visual acuity” since the time of the previous injury. It was “to be looked into.” Nothing more that I know of has been reported or mentioned anywhere publicly about this possibility. I believed that sadly, over time, Jeff’s ability to visually “track” the flight of the baseball (both at the plate and in the field) has diminished. And this to the point where the former budding star cannot now “recognize” pitches with any consistency (nor make even the occasional “spectacular catch” in the outfield). Surely, the “raw” physical abilities that catapaulted this local hero to the edge of national stardom in his early 20’s could not have deteriorated so rapidly as to explain his current difficulties on the diamond at age 25!
Inability to “see” and “track” pitches readily explains Francoeur’s “impatience” and “jumpiness” at the plate. You’d be “nervous” too, if you had 90+ mph fastballs coming at you that you could not visually “pick up” and “track” clearly. I would bet that in an honest moment, Jeff would admit that he doesn’t see the baseball like he used to. He probably rarely, if ever, picks up “spin” so as to enable him to differentiate pitch type. I doubt that he even remembers clearly those “heady” early days when pitches probably looked like “basketballs” lobbed up to him, at least occasionally. I would readily bet that in 2009, every pitch that Frenchy (and his diminished visual tracking abilities) “sees” challenges him as would an approaching “missile” Everything looks like a “fuzzy aspirin tablet.”
Consider McCann’s recent difficulties “hitting” when his vision deteriorated a bit. New glasses, “voila,” he’s back! (It is not likely near so simply remedied in Francoeur’s case. I fear that his problem would not be amenable to “corrective lenses” or surgical fixes. My guess is that Jeff’s is a “nerve-related” problem.) Frightfully, recall the case of Red Sox darling Tony Conigliaro from days gone by.
One corresponding phenomenon that is so obvious with Jeff is that one night he seems to have decided beforehand that he will swing at every first pitch regardless of location. He probably has in mind the hope that it will be a relatively “straight” fastball that he can time and get his aggressive bat upon. After going 0 for 4 for the night, and grounding out to second base twice with runners in scoring position (on the first pitch both times, no less), the next night ( after being “scolded” by TP, Bobby and/or various sports writers), Jeff obediently “lays off” the first pitch. On these nights, however, it seems that the first pitch is always a hittable fastball right down the middle. Now the even more nervous (and angry) Frenchy is facing an 0-1 count (which feels to him like 0-2). Now the real fun begins (for the pitcher, unfortunately). Typically, pitchers will then work Jeff in on his hands (”fouled” away); then up above his neck (”checked” swing, barely); and then, to finish him, something 8 inches off the outside of the plate, often in the dirt (swing and a miss, or weak grounder to right side).
Night after night of this would make any of us into the “head case” that Jeff is purported to have become!
One last point, note that Jeff never makes a “spectacular catch” any more. Oh, he gets “close.” But the “catch” is never made. Not even once and a while, which the law of averages would favor (even crappy fielders catch a surprise once and awhile). Note also that he never “dives” for anything in front of him or to his side as most right fielders, in particular, are seen to do. Again, Jeff isn’t able to clearly “track” balls in flight with adequate confidence and accuracy so that it becomes “second nature” for him to make aggressive attempts at making a play. Also note, he pursues the occasional possibly “catchable” ball near the top of the fence (”Otis Nixon” balls) more aggressively than he pursues “iffy” balls in front of him or to his side. Subconsciously (?consciously) he knows that failed but valiant efforts to make a play on potential “fence-toppers” is much more acceptable to teammates and coaches than “flops” on balls in front or to the side. (”Cost/benefit” ratio considerations.)
Oh, last thing, really. Someone should check Francoeur’s daytime BA vs. night-game BA. I would bet that it is telling, as well. His “improved” spring training stats were based mostly on day-game plate appearances. It’s likely that sunlight gives him an even greater advantage over night-game conditions than it does the average player. But, the bottom line remains, “You can’t hit what you can’t see.” At least, you can’t hit well with consistency what you can’t see well with any consistency. Not at the MLB level, anyway.
Wife’s sending me to store. Hope that you read this, Mr. Bisher. Frank Wren needs to do some thinking about this situation.
Reno
Report this comment
stew
May 30th, 2009
8:35 am
Mr. Bisher,
I wonder how you ever got a job at AJC. Your column is filled with sentence fragments. It is filled with all sorts of grammatical errors.”For Jeff Francoeur in particular.”, “For those who came to Turner Field to cheer him, but now jeer him.”, “A flurry of conjecture.”, “Homegrown hero?”, “Francoeur, Brian McCann, Nacay McBride, Kelly Johnson, Ryan Langerhans, and two Canadians, Pete Orr and Scott Thorman.”, “Most of it.”, and “Home runs, RBIs, and yes, strikeouts. as well?” are all sentence fragments. Did you ever take “English Composition 101″ in school? Or better yet, did you ever go to school? Moreover, there are run on sentences throughout your column. Does anyone at AJC oversee what you write? You shouldn’t be allowed to express yourself if you don’t know how to do it. Please, if there are higher ups at AJC reading this, I implore you to fire this mental midget.
More importantly, you don’t seem to get it. “Frenchie’s” time with the Braves has come and gone. His arm is his one redeeming quality. Other than that, he can’t hit for average or power, run the bases, score runs, or cover any ground in right field. He is clearly not the five-tool player we thought he was when he broke in. In addition, I recently read something you wrote about how the Braves have no talent coming up. I think your ideas are idiotic and you have no clue about the current state of the Braves. Please get the f— out of the business.
Report this comment
dobearsbare
May 30th, 2009
8:38 am
For what it’s worth, Scott Thorman started the season with the Rangers Triple-A affiliate in Oklahoma City and was traded to the Royals and now is in with Omaha. In 20 games, he’s hitting .200. Oblivion, indeed.
Report this comment
jerry
May 30th, 2009
8:49 am
Every starter in the Yankee lineup has more HR’s than any Braves player. How’s that for a talent gap?
Report this comment
journalist jimmy smith
May 30th, 2009
8:58 am
whoa! don’t be so hard on the beaver, uh, furman bisher. furman is one of this journalist’s heroes. have read everything bisher has written for many years and furman always informs and entertains. jimmy smith never missed the college football show on local television with the coaches and with furman and outlar and minter and mehre. furman has earned furman’s place as dean of sportswriters (of course, sportswriters and all writers are dropping like flies at the ajc
). great body of work over a long distinguished career. much like this journalist, only different.
now, baseball . . . norm van brocklin said, “you can’t coach intelligence.” was that football? either the player is smart enough to understand and accept coaching – or the player is not. francoeur appears uncoachable. much like andruw for two seasons. is it the coach? or is it the player? won’t take coaching and won’t take a pitch. never competes with a pitcher – always swinging and always behind in the count. has a few “holes” but not pointed out by chipper like chipper pointed out the “holes” of the rookie, schafer. francoeur shows off the arm and allows runners to advance with ill advised throws. yes, jimmy smith thinks it is time for another player in right field. last year francoeur failed with the bases loaded how many times? and bobby kept sending francoeur up there. again, ill advised. go figure.
and this blog has a radio personality and the grinch blogging here. like old times, only different.
if anyone’s vision (and judgement) needs checking . . . might start with wren and with bobby. doesn’t bobby see how this is working (or not working) from the dugout? must have something pre-occupying bobby in the dugout. can’t pick out what that is, though.
last journalist out at the ajc, please turn off the lights.
Report this comment
Booger
May 30th, 2009
9:04 am
Enter your comments here
Report this comment
jerry
May 30th, 2009
9:14 am
The Braves (Wren) offered Frenchy a long term contract last year? Questions: Who was dumber? Wren or Frenchy?
Report this comment
Paul in Houston
May 30th, 2009
9:25 am
J.P. and 61 Year Old Brave Fan are right on.
I think the Braves rushed Francoeur to the majors before he had
time to develope at the minor league level.
I don’t think he can handle the pressure of being the Hometown Hero.
The Brave’s line-up has not been one to faer in many years,and
the hitting coach has to share some of the blame.
Report this comment
c alton
May 30th, 2009
9:28 am
The one thing Jeff needs is a take sign, every opposing pucture knows when he comes up with men on base do not even get close to the strike zone.
Report this comment
Darren
May 30th, 2009
9:38 am
Come on people, be patient… Wait another 3 years and Pendleton will have Frenchy completely “fixed” and as good a hitter and Andruw…
Report this comment
jimmy
May 30th, 2009
9:44 am
mr bisher great article wish we could see more of them and for what it’s worth the gentleman stew who wrote earlier got his name because it equates to his brain power
Report this comment
csg
May 30th, 2009
9:56 am
5 seasons isnt enough? him bashing the org isnt enough? pay attention to his numbers since he’s been here – rbi’s are a crap stat so dont throw those at me. How about we look at the fact that he’s now working on his 3rd sub .300 OBP in 5 years. The kid cant hit, has no power, has lost all of his range. He’s got two things going for him, a strong arm, and little girls screaming for him at the game. Or here’s another idea, we can be patient with him. Then let him go to his next arb hearing asking for $6 mil next time and we’ll be at the same place next year saying lets just be patient, he’ll turn things around. He’s a lost cause and this team is a .500 team unless changes are made starting with our RF
Report this comment
David
May 30th, 2009
9:56 am
Furman, I would agree with you in most cases but here is why I disagree in certain aspects.
I agree, we should have more patience but at the cost of potentially costing us another season? He is really hurting this team.
The other BIG problem I have with him is ATTITUDE. Last year when he was sent down, he was terrible and really hurt the team. When he got sent down, he got all pissy and had a bad attitude. This year when he came back and has stared siwninging at too many bad pitches, his answer is “its the only way I know how to hit, to be aggressive”. Guess what Jeff, this is the major leagues, not Parkview, you have to adjust not just your stance but your appraoch to each and every at bat.
The kid just doesn’t get it.
I hope we do keep him but he needs a wake up call. If his attitude doesn’t change, he will be a perennial .250 hitter, hit 15 hrs and drive in 80 RBIS
Report this comment
curtis jones
May 30th, 2009
9:57 am
How much more patience is expected? We know, without a doubt, that Francoeur is a slow-footed, scatter-armed, occasional singles hitter who strikes out a lot and can’t move runners over in key situations. We know his outfield skills are already on the decline, and that he is anything but a team player. He’s a guy you can count on if the score is 9-1, but not 1-1.. At this stage in his career, he should be an everyday cleanup hitter. He is a 7th hitter at best, and would be 8th (or 9th) on a good offensive team. Patience indeed.
Report this comment
Michael
May 30th, 2009
9:57 am
I agree that Terry Pendleton is the problem. Francoer is not the only example of a player getting to the majors, hitting the ball very well, and then his production slips more and more. Brian McCann has not been the same player since his rookie year. Diaz, even Escobar, are not the same hitters since they’ve arrived. For all of us that celebrated Andruw Jones release a couple of years ago, he is hitting .300 as pinch hitter and occasional DH with 14 RBIs and 4 homers, and a .605 slugging percentage. Furcal is off to a slow start this season, but he has been a better hitter since leaving the Braves. I think the only reason that Chipper’s numbers are somewhat consistent is because he came up under Terry, so Terry leaves him alone. It’s been time for TP to leave.
Report this comment
ynot
May 30th, 2009
10:00 am
Jeff needs to work the count and get a better pitch to hit. He doesn’t need to swing at the first borderline pitch that comes his way. All the teams know this and just let him get himself out. I don’t think the fans need to learn patients as much as Jeff does.
Report this comment
Just me
May 30th, 2009
10:18 am
Boy, what a negative bunch on this blog. Berating Cox, Jeff, Wren, and TP has now grown to berating Furman Bisher, one of the greatest sports writers of all time.
I do agree with the one who thinks Jeff has a vision problem. Maybe, just maybe, his efforts to work around this problem has led to his sub par performance the last couple of years. Correcting this problem could correct Jeff and everyone would be happy. It’s well worth a try.
Report this comment
DHD
May 30th, 2009
10:22 am
Listen to the voice of experience here. Furman has been here since before the Braves came to ATL, like me. You don’t sell low on stocks. You don’t trade Francoeur while he’s down, especially a 25 year old. BUT…you don’t have to play him every day either. Bring up Brandon Jones an let him platoon with Jeff for a while. It can’t hurt. If we trade, we should trade a good player to get a good player. I have heard such trade suggestions as Francoeur for Jason Bay. Yeah, right. Here’s what the Braves can do: Teams will be begging for a player like Soriano. He can close for anybody right now. we have a closer and have pitchers in Gwinnett to take his spot. Bottom line is that you have to trade value to get value. So, get some offense by trading Soriano, IMHO. And, BTW, you may can combine Soriano with Francoeur for a good deal somewhere too. I wouldn’t be opposed to that if the deal is good, but I’m not giving away a 25 year old player with the potential of Francoeur.
Report this comment
TM
May 30th, 2009
10:24 am
I’m not going to waste time and space blaming the player or the coach. This is a results oriented business and the Braves are getting very little production from rightfield. PERIOD.
This has been going on for far to long. It’s time “loyalty” takes a back seat and someone does something about it. I think the whole team needs someone to light a fire under all of their butts. With all due respect to the manager, I don’t think Bobby Cox is that person.
It’s time for Cox to move back in the GM role (sorry Wren, you’re out),
it’s time for Francouer to not be in the starting lineup,
it’s time for our outfield to not be the worst outfield in baseball,
it’s time for Glavine to retire and quit holding on and holding the team hostage,
it’s beyond time for all of these things to happen.
And for F. Bisher to write about more patients for frenchy… well time is beyond him too.
It’s been 3 years since this team has been in the playoffs and i think it’s safe to say this is #4. When does excuses give way to actions? When?
Report this comment
csg
May 30th, 2009
10:31 am
Michael, its fans like you that need to pay attention and look at stats before you speak.
“Brian McCann has not been the same player since his rookie year.”
seriously, dude’s been a 3 time all star since his rookie year, in which, he was not selected.
.288/.345/.400/.745 (rookie year)
.333/.388/.572/.961
.270/.320/.452/.772 (injured year)
.301/.373/.523/.896
.321/.407/.519/.925
you’re right he’s not the same hitter he was when he was brought up, he’s a lot better. He and Jeffrey are on totally different career paths. They really should be mentioned together. BMac will earn his 4th all star selection in the 4th straight year. He’s the best offensive catcher in baseball, he or Victor Martinez
Report this comment
csg
May 30th, 2009
10:36 am
Im just amazed out how many people call themselves baseball fans and truly want this team to be better, but at the same time they dont see the problems we have and they just want to remain patient. If thats the case lets stay patient and we’ll continue to be a .500 baseball team
Report this comment
ATL Baseball
May 30th, 2009
10:41 am
Andruw Jones has continued to improve under Jaramillo, because he sees him every day. Creates a problem when Francoeur sees him, has a successful spring, and then loses all instruction. Under TP, A. Jones went from an MVP player back to a Mendoza-liner. Francoeur went from the face-of-the-franchise to (go out to Turner and pick your phrase). The fact that guys go to other hitting coaches in the off-season should be a good clue.
Report this comment
GB
May 30th, 2009
10:42 am
This all started when Jeff got hit in the face at the beginning of last year. He might not get over it, but I think he will…eventually.
Report this comment
lagnamor
May 30th, 2009
10:48 am
It’s well worth a try. Do you believe the Braves are so stupid that they didn’t have Brad ,sorry Frenchy’s eye’s checked? Negative bunch? Just meee, you won’t know the truth if it hit you in the face.
Bisher your bloggers are running 98% against you.
Why does Bobby Cox keep playing Frenchy everyday?
Report this comment
ResacaJoe
May 30th, 2009
10:54 am
The issues facing Francoueur & Schafer shouldn’t be worked out at the major league level. Forgetting the nine hole, Braves are playing 6 on 8 every game.
Report this comment
Justafan
May 30th, 2009
10:58 am
Why does Bobby keep running Frenchy out there everyday? Bobby’s trying to waterboard the fans.
Report this comment
RoyU
May 30th, 2009
10:59 am
He’s an adult and getting paid as a MLB player. Patience was shown most of last year when he was floundering and hitting at about a .210 clip. We should give patience to those who give “Team” effort EVERY DAY! Maybe that would be a better name for us – The Atlanta Patients!
Report this comment
doc
May 30th, 2009
10:59 am
reno, exactly and where it shows the most is in the field. i have seen many playable but difficult balls he used to make look routine that are now made into almosts where he looks awful and out of position where he has over run the ball or misjudged the flight. i think it falls on poor depth perception. i would hope he has been “measured” for this problem but it is a challenge to diagnose. if he cant do it in the field i assure you he will not be more than a blind squirrel at bat even with all his other skills if you cant see it you cant hit it.
Report this comment
RoyU
May 30th, 2009
11:15 am
The only times he seemingly can’t see the pitched ball well is when he is trying to put it over the left field stands. He sees it pretty well when he tries to hit it to right or center. Doesn’t sound like a visual problem?
Report this comment
Marie
May 30th, 2009
11:17 am
Amen, Mr. Bisher!
Report this comment
Ross
May 30th, 2009
11:19 am
Well sure Furman, but why on Earth can’t he discipline himself to not swing at the first pitch? Last night he could have stretched out on a foul pop over first but did not make the effort. There is a perception that he doesn’t try very hard and isn’t very bright. I’m rooting for the kid but he needs to play with more enthusiasm.
-drl
Report this comment
Lance
May 30th, 2009
11:26 am
Who is this writer? Is this a joke? Pete Orr was a bright young prospect? Scott Thorman? AJC, please get a writer that has a clue. Frenchy is a meat head that is resistant to change, and he has a low batting intelligence, give me a break!
Report this comment
Ross
May 30th, 2009
11:35 am
Witness “stew” above and feel sad at the world-view of the modern American Internetian – stupid, snobbish, disrespectful. Imagine “stew” having the temerity to criticize a person with a 50-year career in sports writing, who has won every award to be won by a sports writer.
-drl
Report this comment
No More Bobby
May 30th, 2009
11:56 am
Furman Bisher your old and out of touch just like our manager.
Change of subject – Notice how the Dodgers just keep rolling along with who they have instead of lame excuses for losing a starter like us anytime someone is hurt? Lets see…. hmmmm…. why is that? THEY HAVE A GREAT MANAGER AND OURS SUCKS!!!!
Report this comment
Justafan
May 30th, 2009
12:06 pm
Ross, we all get old. The old gray mare is not what she use to be.
Report this comment
James
May 30th, 2009
12:10 pm
“Your” is a possessive. “You’re” is a contraction of “you” and “are.”
“Its” is a possessive. “It’s” is a contraction of “it” and “is.”
You’re welcome.
Report this comment
Greg
May 30th, 2009
12:18 pm
Furman: no “adagio”? I know adagios quite well, but I can’t follow the metaphor.
Report this comment
Deester11
May 30th, 2009
12:29 pm
“Frenchie” ruined it with me when he was sent back to the minors and acted like a prima dona who was bigger than the game. I’ve never wanted him to fail and I hope he comes back and gets it together, but he can kick rocks for all I care!
Report this comment
Steve W.
May 30th, 2009
12:42 pm
Let me tell some of you clowns something about hitting. After being in the league since 1997, no one should have to tell Andruw Jones how to hit! Tiger Woods said that after years to being a professional, he knows his swing and he works with his coach to fine tune some things. In other words, these are professionals and at some point, they must take responsibility for what they aren’t doing. TP or no one else can make JF stop trying to pull everything, rufuse to take an ocassional pitch or TRY TO TAKE THE BALL THE OTHER WAY!!! For the blogger that put out Jeff’s stats and how he’s leading the team in those categories, HE’S PLAYED EVERY GAME!
Report this comment
#7
May 30th, 2009
12:45 pm
Give Francoeur an entire off-season and season with a new hitting coach and he would make the All-Star game next season!
Report this comment
DirtyDawg
May 30th, 2009
12:56 pm
Hey Furman, ask the Braves starting pitchers just how much more patience they have in these ‘non-performers’. Chipper said it in the post-game interview last night, if Francoeur, and others, has in idea what he wants to do when he goes to the plate it disappears just as soon as the pitcher releases the ball. Now that’s the guy that needs to show some patience, not us, and certainly not the starters. My guess is that if this continues, along with Kelly Johnson’s errors, J. Schafer’s SOs, G Anderson’s lackadaisical play, then Lowe’s, Vasquez’s and JJ’s agents will be calling for trades before the deadline.
Patience…any day now the Mets and/or the Phillies or Marlins will take off like a rocket ship and the Braves front office will be sitting here counseling ‘patience’…bull…like the buzzard say’s ‘patience hell, I’m gonna kill something.’
Report this comment
ColoradoBravesFan
May 30th, 2009
1:10 pm
Braves have 2 pitchers who have given up 5 hrs or more. The Yankees have 9 who have given up 5 or more.
How’s that for a talent Gap? Who’s dumber Wren Frenchy or Jerry?
Report this comment
SAVANNAH DAWG
May 30th, 2009
1:22 pm
Frenchy will never hit like Chipper. So stop thinking he should. Until you put a good stick in front of him and behind him, he will continue to struggle. There are guys in the lineup who are hitting a lot worse but all we hear about is Jeff.
Some guys hit no matter what because they are gifted (Chipper). Some guys hit because of the strong lineup. Frenchy doesn’t have Chipper’s baseball mind. He has a ton of talent but needs a little help in the lineup so he starts seeing better pitches. Instead of moving him down in the line up how about going up to #2???
Improve the lineup from top to bottom and the numbers will rise.
Stop blaming TP and Bobby! The front office needs to continue to find the right talent and get them in the line up. The pitching is a lot better and still needs some work. The right trade, the right free agent……..we are almost there.
Bish is right……..You arm chair, band-wagon fans need to shut the hell up and stop your bitching!
Report this comment
crabapplejoe
May 30th, 2009
1:22 pm
Sage of Bluesland wrote: “Hometown Heroes–too much silly emotion clouds good judgment when it comes to dealing with them (Exhibit A to that is the most overrated, overpaid linebacker I’ve ever seen, one Keith Brooking…He of the ankle-grabs eight yards downfield…)”
I’m surprised you left Jessie Tuggle off your list of failed “hometown heroes”. After all he is from Georgia as well and had fewer impact plays than Brooking even though he played three more years as a Falcon (Brooking 17 sacks, 12 ints; Tuggle 21 sacks, 6 ints.). If Brooking is so terrible why the Cowboys grab him 36 hours into free agency with plans for him to start at LB? Hmmmm….your prejudices are showing. Try not to get too upset when KB56 gets inducted into the Falcon Ring of Honor. Back to the fan favorite punching bag for now…Jeff Francoeur. He has a great arm and has had flashes of brilliance at the plate so I say we keep him. He is still pretty young and maybe the proper coaching can bring out that hitting again. Pendleton clearly isn’t the answer for anyone. Maybe send Francoeur over to Gwinnett for awhile and bring up one of the new whiz kids. I would hate to see Francoeur go to another team and really develop into a great player.
Report this comment
Paul R. Thomas
May 30th, 2009
1:33 pm
Is Francour a good kid–yes. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have problems at the plate. He has had 2 years to get his act together. Maybe it is the pressure of being the home town hero, who knows. An awful lot of major leaguers did not work out the the team that brought them up. Sometime it takes the shock of being traded elsewhere to wake a player up. Most if not all of Francour’s problems are mental and as we know from previous experience that it is hard to overcome. Just maybe if the “great” Francour was traded elsewhere, and had to sit the pine as a backup for an extended period of time he just might learn to trust his hitting instructors.
Report this comment
RHR
May 30th, 2009
1:38 pm
All of you “FIRE TP!” advocates…
Who was Jeff’s hitting coach his first 2.5 seasons in the majors? How is it TP’s fault if Mr. “If OBP is so important why isn’t it on the scoreboard?” has abandoned everything he learned from Rudy? Are you one of the hundreds of Braves fans who wanted to fire Roger McDowell last season and the season before when we just didn’t have very good pitchers? Nobody talked about firing TP then, then it was Rogers fault and we needed to get Leo back. Now that we have capable starting pitchers you don’t hear much about firing Roger and bringing back Leo anymore. Funny that.
This is not t-ball. By the time a player is 25 years old and in his 4th season of playing in the majors and he still doesn’t get it then maybe he’s just not that good, never was…and now that every pitcher in the league has the scouting report on him, they know there’s no easier out in baseball. He simply cannot, will not, does not make the necessary adjustments. Swing at the first pitch, swing at pitches in the dirt, swing at pitches a foot outside. Rinse. Lather. Repeat. He is a head case who, by no fault of his own, had unrealistic expectations placed upon him by the Atlanta media. Somewhere along the way Jeff bought into his own hype and decided to hold out for “A-Rod type money” …. thank goodness he did! And when he got sent down last season instead of being humble and admitting and accepting the fact that he needed to work some things out he got furiously mad and lashed out at the team who pays him to be a professional ball player. Its time to get off TP’s back and put the blame where it lies – with Francoeur.
Report this comment
Paul Lentz
May 30th, 2009
1:48 pm
Unlike most of you, I’ve watched every Braves game in the past 4 seasons. The first two years through the mlb.com channel. The past 2 years on Direct T.V.’s MLB Extra Innings package. I live in San Francisco and being a Braves fan, you have to pay if you want to see them play everyday.
Anyway, I’ve had the chance to get a really good read on the capabilities of Jeff Franceour. MLB scouting has Franceour figured out. Franceour does not have the ability to make adjustments. Baseball is filled with players who made a splash their first year or two, only to come back to earth and eventually fade into oblivion because MLB baseball is a difficult sport to excel at long term.
Many of you are blinded by Franceour’s age, the fact that many of you consider him to be a “hometown hero”, and many of you have a “false fear” that if the Braves get rid of Franceour, that he will go somewhere and turn it around and be the superstar that many of you feel he can be. (kind of like being afraid of getting rid of a “promising” piece of stock before the price of the stock “shoots” through the roof).
Here’s a reality check news flash: Many of you are disillusioned. Franceour will never be anywhere close to a power hitter who will deliver in the clutch. As I have said repeatedly, when Franceour tries to go to right field, he either hits a weak popout or ground ball…or…on occasion, punches a weak, looping single to right (like he did last night). Yet he simply does not drive the ball to the opposite field. When he tries to pull the ball (which he tries to do most of the time), he either strikeouts, hits a grounder to short, or hits a lazy fly ball. For someone who tries to pull the ball all the time, his power numbers are ABYSMAL. 14 home runs with 94 RBI’s and batted. .241 in his last 786 at bats. 44 walks and 138 strikeouts.
As much as Jordan Schafer has struggled in his rookie season so far, he does have 27 walks in 160 at bats. Schafer, being a rookie who has played in 48 games, is in the process of making adjustments. Actually he would benefit from having a couple of days off and watch these guys hit and make adjustments without having his head in the game. However the Braves cant really give him a day off right now. So he has no choice but the battle his way out of this hitting woes.
However Franceour has played in 597 career games with 2,336 at-bats. That is plenty of time for a real “superstar” to make adjustments. How much more time do many of you guys need before you finally wake up to reality and see Franceour for what he really is? He is not even a serviceable MLB hitter. Franceour tries to hit the ball, McCann “drives” the ball. That is the difference between the two. Franceour kills rallies, McCann produces rallies. McCann is a 3 time All-Star who plays a demanding position. Franceour will never be an All-Star.
Right now I would like to see Bobby put Martin Prado in right. However, that is probably asking too much of Braves management. Prado is not the long term answer. However he can hit, which is much more than can be said about Franceour. If the Braves cannot make a viable trade between now and the All-Star Break, then it makes sense to keep throwing Franceour out there. However, once Omar Infante comes back from his hand injury, I hope that Bobby Cox puts Infante in right field. Infante can flat out hit,
Report this comment
RJ
May 30th, 2009
2:07 pm
Hello, I am 9 years old. Even I can predict what Fracoeur is going to do at the plate. Hack and first pitch- strike 1. Swing wildly at pitch 2 – strike 2. Then weakly ground out to second base – yer out.
Report this comment
joe from central coast ca
May 30th, 2009
2:07 pm
RENO….That was perhaps the best “possible” scenario of Jeff’s breakdown I’ve read anywhere on any blog about his hitting woes. I too would like to see a breakdown of his day/night splits. Perhaps he should take to wearing those yellow tinted shooting glasses to help him pick up the ball better. Anyone remember those blue blocker glasses that golfers (like me) use to find their balls in the rough? Perhaps he could try those but I fear his ego wouldn’t allow it. Braves are in a real quandry with him. They really can’t send him down if they are going to try and trade him. It would further weaken his already anemic trade value. Even if he hit .300 at AAA it wouldn’t help his trade value until he came back to the bigs and proved the carry over was real. At this point, they can say he is still an “everyday” player at the ML level with the dreaded “potential”. Also, this lineup cannot be fixed with the addition of just one OF bat. Has anyone seen the avg’s of the 6,7,and 8 hitters (regardless of who’s in those spots). Pathetic!! You cannot win games when almost 50% of your lineup can’t even make productive outs. If this team cannot learn to play within themselves (ie..ABC type ball) they will not have a shot a getting a sniff of the playoffs. Keep it simple stupid!!!
Report this comment
Shadetree
May 30th, 2009
2:11 pm
Francouer was on steriods when he first came up and now you can clearly see in his build that he is no longer on them. Andruw was the same way. It explains everything. TP does have to go though.
Where’s Don Baylor when you need him.
Maybe at least bring back Bob Gibson so he could slap some of these people up side the head.
Report this comment
Terry P.
May 30th, 2009
2:16 pm
Paul Lentz, just above, has it correctly. Fracouer swings wildly. Good hitters DRIVE THE BALL. It’s really simple – Pivot the hips, squash the bug, take the knob to the ball, and extend the bat through the strike zone. One other REALLY AMATEURISH move that Francouer made was working out with the football team two off seasons ago. FOOTBALL – A totally different sport with totally differnt muscle functions – brilliant! Next time try Googling “exercises for baseball”.
Report this comment
OldTimer
May 30th, 2009
2:17 pm
Shadetree is right. Frenchy on steorids is a heck of a player, off it he’s no better than AA.
Report this comment
BOB DORSEY
May 30th, 2009
2:20 pm
GEE FURMAN FRAN HAS ALREADY READ HIS PRESS CLIPPINGS,HE NEEDS TO GO ALSO TAKE TP WITH HIM.MAYBE BOBBY COX WILL GO NEXT YEAR,BASEBALL HAS PASSED HIM BY
Report this comment
Paul Lentz
May 30th, 2009
2:27 pm
As a LOYAL Braves fan, I want to see the Braves win. It isnt that I have anything against Franceour personally. What I have is a problem with his inability to help the Braves win. He kills rallies. The Braves need a right fielder who can hit. Hank Aaron, Claudell Washington, Dale Murphy, David Justice, Garry Sheffield, J.D. Drew were all power hitters who could drive in runs and steal a base every now and then if they caught the pitcher slipping. However, Franceour is basically a hitter who is happy when he loops a single to right field. Yet many of you guys are steadfast in your loyalty to Franceour.
Some you sound like one of those wives who is a victim of a domestic abuser. She will continually make excuses for her abusive husband and talk about “what a good man he really is”, blah blah blah. Many of you will blame the hitting coach, where he hits in the order, the eye doctor, the manager, hometown pressure, disloyal fans, the lunar cycle, etc. for why Franceour isnt driving the ball.
Just like the abused wife needs to break away from her husband, Jeff Franceour fans need to break away from him. His horrific hitting ability is an abusive that one does not need to endure. I hope Braves management will muster up the courage to “let him go” and give a more worthy player a chance to help the Braves win games.
Report this comment
sam
May 30th, 2009
2:33 pm
Some will read this message before it get’s deleted.
The Braves are getting just what they deserve with Francoeur. Ha…freaking ha….he is a an over-hyped…sucky….shouldn’t be in the big leagues….appeals to the idiot red-neck fan base…flash-in-the-pan!!!
Bisher you are an old fossilized racist…..you didn’t name any Black players in your list….and I’m glad that Frenchy is a colossal failure. You need to hurry up and die or retire so that your old fossilized style of racist AJC reporting and commenting will go away forever. (along with Lewis Grizzard and Celestine Sibley)
Report this comment
Ripped again.
May 30th, 2009
2:40 pm
Sam i have to agree with you 100%
Report this comment
sam
May 30th, 2009
2:44 pm
Furman Bisher has never written a positive article about a Black athlete…never. He is and old fossilized/petrified racist. But the hardcore Southern Rednecks love him.
Bottomline….the Braves want their millions of white fans to come to Turner Field every season….and they know these white fans want white heros.
Frenchy was supposed to be the local prodigy/hero…..but he sucks….but Furman is making excuses for him to appease the white redneck fans. Get more BROTHERS on the team!!! Quit trying to make baseball all white.
Bisher has never wrote a favorable article about a Black athlete.
Terrence Moore was the man!!! He’s gone on to bigger and better things. No one wants Bisher.
Report this comment
MLH
May 30th, 2009
2:51 pm
RHR is right. You can’t blame all the hitting woes on TP. And for everyone who says he hasn’t helped anyone, what about McCann and Escobar? Have they not improved significantly since they reached the big leagues? I am not trying to defend TP, but you can’t just point out what he has not done.
Report this comment