Yes, we need “death panels”
This morning, my colleague Jay Bookman had a very thoughtful post on why rationing health care — “death panels,” if you will — is quite necessary. I wrote on a similar subject in my Sunday column.
If we keeping spending our health care dollars disproportionately on the elderly, we will have little left to spend on children. That makes for an upside-down society that cannot thrive for long.
I happen to think the entire column is worth reading, but if your time (and patience) are short, focus on the grafs in which my brother, a Boston kidney doc, talks about dialysis for the elderly who are already dying:
If resources are limited (and they are), the nation needs to make choices – some more painful than others. My brother, Kevin, a Boston physician who treats kidney disease, talks about the Medicare program that pays for dialysis for anyone with failing kidneys — including the terminally ill. Started in the 1970s to help adults still in the workforce, its fastest-growing population is now over 65, he said. And it costs tens of billions a year.
“It may not be the best use of resources for the frail and infirm elderly, and it also forces many elderly patients to spend their last days in the hospital, rather than at home,” a more comfortable setting, Kevin told me.
Yet, many patients, even octogenarians who don’t expect to recover, find it difficult to turn down the treatment. “And physicians resist having a conversation with patients that recommends they forego dialysis because it’s an uncomfortable conversation to have. It’s easier just to recommend the treatment,” he said.
But those are exactly the adult conversations we ought to be having.
Those will undoubtedly be very painful conversations. But we simply don’t have the money to spend to prolong the life of a terminally ill 87-year-old for a few weeks.
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234 comments Add your comment
Neal and Bob
April 21st, 2011
12:59 pm
Death Panels sounds like a great idea Cindi if we start with 56 year olds (your age) and then limit them to idiots named Cynthia Tucker. And if it works…who knows? You could start a trend. God I hate brain dead liberals.
Hakon
April 21st, 2011
1:01 pm
Tucker, Please explain to us how you have come to this kind of rationalization for something that doesn’t exist. I think that was the wording you used in 2009. Here are your words about the idea of death panels “Quite honestly, I’m so offended at that terminology because it absolutely isn’t (in the bill)” Ignorant, stupid, or liar, which do you choose to describe yourself?
emmysmom
April 21st, 2011
1:03 pm
My health care choices are none of your business and certainly not the business of the federal government. They have proven, many times over, they are inept and cannot and do not make good choices/decisions about anything.
Arnold, you and your sister should have a living will. That will insure you will get no care at whatever point you want it terminated. As for the rest of us, mind your own business.
WCC
April 21st, 2011
1:17 pm
I agree with the need to better manage end-of-life care, but it’s not that easy. I went through this with my 81-year-old father, whose kidneys failed after emergency surgery. He was put on dialysis, and stayed there until doctors concluded, three months later, that he was not going to recover and recommended letting him go. Up to that point I hoped he might get better, as he had done in the past. It’s hard to let your loved ones go and, unless they are able to make end-of-life decisions themselves, doctors and family will tend to keep them alive as long as possible.
tron
April 21st, 2011
1:22 pm
If conservative christians’ were true believers’ they wouldn’t need healthcare services. God should be their insurance company. Prove your faith and help out your Country, put it all in God’s hands. Amen.
Kamchak
April 21st, 2011
1:24 pm
WCC
My condolences for your loss.
My Da passed away 18 months ago due to liver cancer.
buck@gon
April 21st, 2011
1:34 pm
“Those will undoubtedly be very painful conversations. But we simply don’t have the money to spend to prolong the life of a terminally ill 87-year-old for a few weeks.”
Let us see, Civil Cynthia, shall we? How about a nice thought experiment? I’m betting dollars to ding-dongs that when Jimmy Carter turns 87 in couple of years, Obama, Sibelius or whomever is President will move heaven and earth to get him to damn healthcare he desperately begs for.
How about when Bill Clinton can’t chase anymore tail when he’s 87 because he’s got some VD? Think Sibelius/Obama would tell him to “take a pill” and drop into a grave? Don’t think so? How about our GREAT PRESIDENT himself? Aren’t you just fabricating a monarchy out of Washington with this whole healthcare crap? It will be ONLY the politicians who will have the benefits, only their lives will be worthy, as deemed by the political process that is no less tyrannical than that of Napolean or Louis XIV.
Yeah, we need another “adult conversation”. As you know, because you read my posts, I have already debunked your self-flattery there. You aren’t capable of an adult conversation about much at all, “Civil” Cynthia.
What’s more is that you, like our GREAT PRESIDENT, are capable of talking about talking about something. When it comes to addressing details of the issues or answering questions, both of you can not stand even the lightest scrutiny.
Yes, again I am calling you out, Cynthia, personally to address these concerns directly. You are a moral coward with a station and a title beyond your capability. You can not answer your critics, you are a demagogue, you fail utterly to convince, and you refuse to engage in reason and logic.
Mark Duch
April 21st, 2011
1:58 pm
You won a Pulitzer? What good is a talk about “limited resources,” if you don’t recognize that the main function of all resources is to keep people alive? Somehow, I’m quite certain you’re all for spending our limited resources on high-speed rail in a country that already has an interstate highway system in place. Never mind the fact that you posted an article in this very column on August 12, 2009 expressing disgust and disdain at the very accusation that Democrats were pushing death panels. You’re a jersey-sporting team player, not a thinker. Remind me to ignore anything that says Pulitzer on it, from now on.
casual observer
April 21st, 2011
2:00 pm
I FREAKING REFUSE to put my family’s health in the care of incompetent IDIOTS like the author of this column OR a Politican!!.
Buster Collins
April 21st, 2011
2:06 pm
Tucker:
If you are trying to flip this argument to make a point, no genuine conservative would ever promote such an idea.
If you are in fact serious, then the Department in Child Services where you live needs to be contacted because you are clearly demented and I fear for your child’s safety.
sam
April 21st, 2011
2:31 pm
its a tough one CT…funny, people on here would rather immediately go into attack mode than put some actual thought in to the issue. still cant figure out why they bother reading your stuff if you are so horrible. would be like me spending time listening to the goons on the radio they get their daily affirmation from.
Mark Duch
April 21st, 2011
2:34 pm
sam – Nice try, but false equivalence. No one on the radio shows you’re talking about is recommending that the government deliberately kill our Nation’s citizens. Not even close.
sam
April 21st, 2011
2:39 pm
not what i said at all…
B Cosby
April 21st, 2011
2:39 pm
Tucker, I hope your brother is a better doctor then you are a columnist.
If your child is injured in a car accident, and needs to be put on a kidney machine or some other life saving device to save her life, that would probably be a different story in your eyes, by why would anyone else care. Unplug everyone. Hey, there’s a thought for jobs created by the liberals. We could hire someone to go around to different hospitals and unplg people. Now that’s jus good government right there!!!
sam
April 21st, 2011
2:40 pm
point is, why are people wasting time reading an article by someone the hate so much and disagree with on every level no matter what the topic is. thats the point.
sam
April 21st, 2011
2:41 pm
so apparently the ‘false equivalence’ is from your end
Buster Collins
April 21st, 2011
2:49 pm
Atlanta Constitution editorial writer Cynthia Tucker, one-time winner of the Pulitzer Prize, died today at the age of XX, after a the US Health and Human Services Medical Cost-Containment Board recommended a suspension of health care. Tucker, who hit bottom after being vilified for years after lobbying for “death panels” that the government ultimately embraced, passed peacefully after being injected with the now popular Domein drug.
At her beside was her estranged and emancipated child (name, sex and age withheld) and former like-minded columnist Jay Bookman, who said he was “honored” to flip the switch on the Kevorkian 3000 Terminator that administers the Domein drug.
One time protesters of Tucker’s cause celebrated outside the Atlanta area Home for Discarded Elderly. “It’s fitting for this to happen,” said one protester who wished to remain nameless. “Now that she is gone hopefully society will feed on the irony of Tucker’s passing and move to dismantle former President Obama’s ‘Die to Save America Act.’”
Funeral services are pending approval of funds from the US Department of Waste Disposal.
Kamchak
April 21st, 2011
2:49 pm
point is, why are people wasting time reading an article by someone the hate so much and disagree with on every level no matter what the topic is. thats the point.
Better point — why do these people declare their intentions never to read CT evah, evah again, yet come back day after day either with the same nom-de-blog or a new sock-puppet.
buck@gon
April 21st, 2011
2:55 pm
Mark Duch & Sam,
On the contrary, no one on our end is saying “kill anyone at all”.
Right now, it is apparently THEIR end that is saying WE are going to kill seniors (with cuts to medicare) even as THEY with their damn death panels go about doing the very thing they accuse us of doing.
Free tax-payer funded termination of pregnancies up to and including the moment of birth AND complete denail of coverage to seniors for any damn reason the HHS thinks we need to save money. THAT is the legacy of the modern democrat “logic” and “reason”.
I’m sure Joseph Goebbels and Joseph Stalin had effective PR campaigns that involved killing people too. I guess I haven’t learned enough history to learn the specifics and how they might be better than the total Jedi-mind-trick whammy the Democrats seem to have on their increasingly stupid base.
Halftrack
April 21st, 2011
2:56 pm
CT; We don’t need no death panels. I know an older person who was on dialysis for several years. She still contributed to society and her community by doing Income Tax returns. She was a very productive person. When we look at dollars more than safeguarding the weak and struggling of our Nation, then we have lost all moral authority and compassion. Do wounded soldiers need to be looked at by a death panel? The same goes for babies. Suppose you developed a disease or were in an accident, would you want a death panel to review your case?
Dave
April 21st, 2011
2:58 pm
OMG, this is too funny. The proponents of Obamacare vociferously screemed the goverment must take over health care because the evil, profiteering, insurance companies would not insure people with pre-existing conditions are now advocating the pre mature death of these same people in order to save money. More than likly the purpose of their sudden interest in reduced government spending is to continue financial support for ACORN and NPR. Can some intellegent person tell me how many dialysis treatments can be administered with the money saved by eliminating, ACORN and NPR subsidies? No wonder these Democrats weren’t concerned about cost of insuring people with pre-exisiting conditions, they weren’t going to treat them anyway. They should be ashamed. They are the “Death Party.” Kill babies, and kill old people.
Hunter
April 21st, 2011
3:12 pm
It’s christian orthodoxy to rot like a vegetable until the ticker stops….
TnGelding
April 21st, 2011
3:24 pm
Death with dignity!
Lord, give us the wisdom to know when it’s time and the courage to go!
wendy
April 21st, 2011
3:30 pm
Religion is opiate for the masses- opiates are great when taking the celestial dirt-nap.
Dave
April 21st, 2011
3:34 pm
Wait until you see the make up of the “Death Panels.” These will be political hacks chosen by Obama. Look for Van Jones, Andy Stern, Barbara Streisand, Jessie Jackson and others. Visualize the future: you have a burst appendix, you are rushed to the hospital,you are over forty and because of your advanced age, your situation must be reviewed by the Death Panel; the hospital’s “Death Panel Coordinator” brings you the 24 pages of government forms to be filled out; these must be filled out, no exceptions if you want the surgery, you know how the government is about forms; these forms will be sent over night mail; (Note: No FAX or E-Mail, The Government requires the use of the postal service because they need the business); after several days or weeks, the forms are returned because you missed checking the box indicating whether you were alive or deceased on the date of filing; if you are still alive, you check the box and return the forms. Think it can’t happen? Come people we are talking about the government here. Think Post Office, Think DMV, anything is possible. These fifteen people are going to review every surgery in the entire country before surgery. Before the first year is out, want to bet this department will have more employees that the IRS. Within a few years, the “Death” Department budget will exceed our total health care cost of the entire nation.
Samantha
April 21st, 2011
3:40 pm
dave,
It’d be cool if Barbara sang a few bars of “the way we were” as you drift into never never land.
Dave
April 21st, 2011
3:59 pm
Boy, you liberals are beyond redemption. You have always wanted to give away “other peoples” money, not your own. Now, you are eager to kill your relatives, neighbors and friends so you won’t have to pay for their health care. These are the very people who paid taxes to pay for your sorry a-s to get an education. These are the people who fought wars so you would have the freedom to display your stupidity and ignorance on the pages of this site. The fact that you don’t believe in God delineates why you have arrived at this point in your miserable life with no redeeming moral compass.
0311/0317 -1811/1801
April 21st, 2011
4:01 pm
TnGelding
April 21st, 2011
3:24 pm
Death with dignity!
“Lord, give us the wisdom to know when it’s time and the courage to go!”
Yes ………. but not some pathetic, pussillanimous, power hungry government panel.
Dave
April 21st, 2011
4:24 pm
Samantha–try Karen Carpenter’s version.
Dick Hertz
April 21st, 2011
4:46 pm
Funny thing is, there are no liberal politicians in this country besides Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kucinich. Every other politician, from Obama (Black Mitt Romney) on down, would have been at least a Rockefeller Republican until the Reagan Revolution when the Birchers took over the country. Since then the left has moved right, the right has moved far right, and the kooky fringe is running the GOP.
Cripes, a liberal would at least give it to you straight-what the kooks call a death panel is simply end of life counseling. That’s very different from an insurance company cutting you off because you cost too much, or the GOP’s Social Darwinism approach that comes straight out of Germany’s darker days (Work brings freedom! Work brings health insurance! No Workie, no Eatie!).
Jerseygal
April 21st, 2011
5:15 pm
Hey Cynthia,
I guess this means you’ll be pulling the plug on your momma, huh! Wouldn’t want to waste the money on the elderly!
stepper
April 21st, 2011
5:40 pm
You are truly a shill for the Obama administration. Do you ever have an independent thought? I move to nominate you as the death Czar to make those administration life and death decisions. God save the white elderly.
Kamchak
April 21st, 2011
6:10 pm
I am a legend in my own mind. I don’t excel at much ,but I own this blog, it’s all I have really. I have my own bag of clever names to call people, and super cool comebacks, so watch out. I’m super witty and smart too. Just watch how I correct someone’s typo later on. That’ll show them who’s boss.
Oh and by the way, if Ms. Tucker says something, you better be on her side b/c she is even more insightful than I.
Kamchak
April 21st, 2011
6:14 pm
Good to see that nothing untoward has happened to my name-jacking leg-humper.