“Death panels” lie prevents dying with dignity

WASHINGTON — When Congress made its foolish 2005 foray   into the heartbreaking case of Terri Schiavo, the Florida woman kept alive for years in a vegetative state, I called my brother to reiterate my end-of-life directives. “Don’t let Mom interfere,” I told him sternly, knowing that parents can be irrational about letting go of a dying child.

My mother, however, is clear-eyed about her own demise. She, too, has assigned to my brother her medical care power of attorney, giving him legally-protected decision-making authority should she become too ill to issue instructions to a doctor.

Apparently, my mother and I are unusual. Though the certainty of death is one of the few things shared by every human, we tend to put off thinking about it. According to the Pew Research Center, only 29 percent of Americans reported having living wills in a 2006 poll. Even fewer have gone as far as my mother and I  — appointing a health care proxy.

Oddly, a loud and ill-informed band of activists has organized to make sure that Americans continue to procrastinate about end-of-life directives. In what has to be one of the strangest political battles fought in modern times, a motley assortment of Obama-haters, rightwing conspiracy theorists and Republican politicians have joined to ensure that more families struggle through painful Schiavo-like situations.

You may remember the infamous “death panels” fabrication, which reverberated through the political landscape in 2009. It was a falsehood jerry-rigged to a perfectly sane proposal — that Medicare pay doctors to ask patients a few questions: Have you thought about end-of-life directives? Do you want a living will?

The policy sought to take advantage of the great weakness of our health care system: it pays doctors for procedures, not outcomes. Given that, doctors would be more likely to raise the subject with patients if they were paid for the time they spent. If experience is any guide, patients are less likely to bring it up themselves. But any patient’s participation would have been purely voluntary. No one would have been forced to have the conversation.

From that thoughtful policy change, Sarah Palin and others spread the “death panels” lie, persuading millions of Americans that the federal government would empanel bureaucrats to decide when to “pull the plug on Granny.”

Because the falsehood proved so powerful, Democrats eliminated the end-of-life counseling provision from the health care reform bill passed last March. Medicare administrator Donald Berwick tried to resurrect the provision through a

directive from his office late last year, but he was overruled recently by Obama administration officials who feared more political controversy.

How sad. The irony is this: A failure to prepare for the inevitability of death ensures that doctors, nurses and hospital administrators will end up making end-of-life decisions for countless terminally ill patients. If patients feared losing their autonomy — the right to make a highly-charged and personal decision for themselves — they should have welcomed the new Medicare initiative. It makes sense to confront those matters while you’re still healthy enough to think clearly.

According to research published in the British Medical Journal, “Advance care planning improves end-of-life care and patient and family satisfaction and reduces stress, anxiety and depression in surviving relatives.” The research only confirms what common sense suggests.

When my father learned he had colon cancer— he was only 57 — he didn’t have much time to think about whether he wanted doctors to pursue extraordinary measures to keep him alive. His cancer had metastasized by the time it was discovered. He was dead seven weeks after diagnosis.

But he was fully cognizant — clear-headed and alert — for most of those final days, and he used the time wisely and well. He wrapped up duties at the church where he had served as a deacon for decades. He said good-bye to his children.

And he told my mother in no uncertain terms that he was ready to face the end. He wanted no extraordinary interventions. “Put me in a blue casket,” he said.

It was hard enough to lay my father to rest under those circumstances. I simply cannot imagine how painful it would have been if he been too sick to tell us how he wanted to die.

247 comments Add your comment

granny godzilla

January 7th, 2011
11:28 am

A Bronx cheer for the Obama administration for backing down on this.

Last year when our Mimi died in our arms in the back bedroom, the paramedics asked repeatedly about her wishes (she was gone by the time they arrived) but they offered to “work on her” for up to an hour if we wished.

Y’all get your living will done it’s easy and be an organ donor too.

[...] Read More… [...]

Scout

January 7th, 2011
11:32 am

Cynthia:

Maybe I’ll be on your death panel.

Billybob

January 7th, 2011
11:35 am

conservatives equal not dying with dignity…..you are losing it ma’am and have lost your dignity significantly earlier in life at the hands of this conservative……keep lashing out tucker, it always brightens my day to read how unhappy you always are(which is a typical liberal trait). Sorry about your mimi granny…..

Good Grief

January 7th, 2011
11:37 am

I agree that everyone should have their affairs in order, and as early as possible. None of us are promised tomorrow.

That said, my experience with the ‘death panel’ controversy was not the issue of asking what should be done. What I kept hearing, from people and pundits alike, was that these death panels would decide if treatment should continue, what would amount to a blatant rationing of care. The talking points I heard weren’t that these panels would help to plan out end-of-life care or wills, but they would decide if you received treatment or not.

Like you, though, CT, I’ve already told those who need to know how things should go for me.

ByteMe

January 7th, 2011
11:37 am

Great column! Of course, the crazy will still be crazy and refute any evidence to the contrary.

Billybob

January 7th, 2011
11:38 am

Another wall street guy in with Hussein…..Obama villifies wall street while becoming blood brothers with it behind closed doors, that should make you mad, right tucker?

Belinda

January 7th, 2011
11:39 am

I agree with you, Cynthia.

Chris

January 7th, 2011
11:40 am

Everyone should take on the responsibility to talk to their siblings about what to do in critical medical situations and to let your wishes be known. I just don’t understand why it needs to be a law like Ms. Tucker apparently advocates? Seems to me it could be done on our own.

Billybob

January 7th, 2011
11:40 am

Free market capitalism + socialist healthcare system = crazy

Billybob

January 7th, 2011
11:41 am

You are right Chris….

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
11:42 am

End of life and health care directives have been recommended for years without question or controversy. Everyone should have them.

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
11:44 am

Chris…it was never a requirement of law. It was an simple clarification that the costs of discussing these matters with your doctor so that yoou can make an informed decision as to what each involves would be a cost covered by insurance.

Scout

January 7th, 2011
11:53 am

Belinda:

That was brililant. Is there anything else we can expect from you today?

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
12:04 pm

Maybe I’ll be on your death panel

What and this was so insightful?

Scout

January 7th, 2011
12:05 pm

Good Fight:

It’s a joke ……….. get it? A joke.

BeeJay

January 7th, 2011
12:06 pm

Yes, it is helpful if people would deal with health matters before the need arises, but their doing so is THEIR business, NOT the government’s. And certainly not the business of the supreme government of Obama Empire. I’m sure you know as well as everyone else does the purpose of the government getting involved in this private subject; rationing of life-saving procedures and medications is already in force elsewhere. Since the government is going to be paying for health care, to the detriment of us all, they must decide what health care is NOT going to be paid for, and it is among the “elderly” first. It has nothing to do with quality of life and everything to do with money. I hope when you reach this point in your pathetic life, you understand what they’re doing.

You, madam, as usual, distort the subject just to have something inflammatory to write. You are a disgrace to journalism and to the truth.

Scout

January 7th, 2011
12:07 pm

Good Fight:

Regarding “insightful”, I’m working on a full transcript of the Chris Matthews segment.

I’ll be in touch.

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
12:08 pm

So was mine Scout…..a joke about your post. ;)

Road Scholar

January 7th, 2011
12:09 pm

Scout: That was callous! You should be ashamed! You are better than that.

Billybob: Bless your heart!

You have to be able to talk to your doctor about treatments, and the quality of life that each treatment will allow. While nothing is 100%, you have to rely on the history of those who have been treated before you.

Get Real

January 7th, 2011
12:11 pm

So this is where everyone went…too busy to keep up today..

Ragnar Danneskjöld

January 7th, 2011
12:11 pm

Good afternoon all. Our leftist friends are injured by any talk of “death panels” as that is the inevitable logical end of all of the “promises” (of cost controls) resident in ObamaCare. Nevertheless, there is something weird about the political cult of death in that it would compensate all physicians for annually discussing alternatives to “living.” Sounds like one of their push-polls.

Burroughston Broch

January 7th, 2011
12:16 pm

Cynthia ignored the real point, which I just went through with my father.
The real point is that we all can decide whether to have an end-of-life directive.
I will ask for information but I do not want to be pushed by government employees incentivized to reduce healthcare costs by making me die sooner and cheaper.
Just give me the information and then get out of the way.

Scout

January 7th, 2011
12:16 pm

Road Scholar:

I’m sorry.

I repent in sackcloth and ashes.

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
12:17 pm

Nevertheless, there is something weird about the political cult of death in that it would compensate all physicians for annually discussing alternatives to “living.”

Did not seem weird to the Republicans when discussing Terry Schiavo.

Its not alternatives to living, its about the quality of living and letting those who you love and those who care for you about how you want to live.

Get Real

January 7th, 2011
12:20 pm

Why do we need the government to intervene with family/personal decisions? Am I delusional or should these discussion not be taking place with family and with your physician without a law dictating as such. If you require the government to tell you to do common sense things then you are hopelessly lost anyway…..

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
12:20 pm

Borch and anyone who wants to claim that there was a “death panel”

Do point to the precise language in the original bill or the law as passed that created any death panel. Obtaining information about life and health directives for informed decisions is not anything more than that…someone to answer the questions you may have and to help you know how to fill out a form with your choices so that you dont have to retain an attorney.

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
12:22 pm

Real…it was not a requirement, it was an option available to those who want assistance or information.

granny godzilla

January 7th, 2011
12:24 pm

Get Real

The only involvment from the government would have been to insure that the doctors time was paid for as with any other doctors visit.

That’s a pretty damend good idea.

Jack

January 7th, 2011
12:29 pm

Rumor has it that Tucker voted GOP last November 2nd. So all this anti-GOP goop is for appearances only.

granny godzilla

January 7th, 2011
12:30 pm

speaking of rumors…is that two weeks on, one week off schedule for Speaker Boehners House real?

Get Real

January 7th, 2011
12:34 pm

Keep..Granny…no argument

John K

January 7th, 2011
12:38 pm

Today’s conservatives need fear to survive. Why bother with reality when “Obama’s gonna kill ya!” works so much better?

Logical Dude

January 7th, 2011
12:42 pm

Just letting everyone know:

If i get in a coma, vegetative state, or am otherwise incommunicado in a way not medically induced, DO EVERYTHING medically possible to keep me alive.

Now if I am STILL in a coma, vegetative state, or am otherwise incommunicado in a way not medically induced after THREE MONTHS AND THREE DAYS, then pull the plug.

I figure that’s enough time if my soul wants to come back for my body or not. This definitive time period removes doubt from my loved ones not to hang on to a mostly hopeless situation. Plus, it keeps the bills from getting too overwhelming and burdening my family for when my time comes.

Now, how do you write this into a living will? How do insurance companies view living wills, and will they cover my own choices, or will they “cut me off” because of my requests? “Well, if you WANT to die, we’ll just stop benefits after 1 month, and leave your family a huge amount of debt”. That’s one of the difficulties of creating a living will. I want to put in many conditions that are dependent on several teams of responsibility: My Family, My Doctor, My Insurance.

Of course, posting anonymously doesn’t help me resovle this, either!

Get Real

January 7th, 2011
12:42 pm

John K

Don’t paint conservatives with a broad brushstroke

Where'd Cindy Sheehan Go?

January 7th, 2011
12:44 pm

resno2

January 7th, 2011
12:51 pm

“The only involvment from the government would have been to insure that the doctors time was paid for as with any other doctors visit.”

They already do… it’s billed as a consultation.

So why make it a law?

JKL2

January 7th, 2011
12:56 pm

Not sure what the two have to do with each other. The death panel is still going to decide to pull the plug wether you want them to or not. The only thing this does is help them out by having “do not resuscitate” people move to the head of the line.

Get Real

January 7th, 2011
12:57 pm

resno2…..that is kind of what I was thinking….

AngryRedMarsWoman

January 7th, 2011
12:58 pm

Everyone should care enough about their loved ones to have end-of-life care issues sorted in advance. I have had a living will and healthcare proxy since I was in my mid-20s (before marriage and children even). Beyond that, what appears to really scare people is the idea that when they are old they will be denied healthcare. With 25%+ of your lifetime healthcare expenses being incurred in the last year of life, most likely on treatments that will simply keep you alive rather than give you any quality of life, I have to wonder about the sanity of those expenses. If you asked me to choose between spending $100k+ to keep me in the fetal position in a hospital bed hooked up to machines and getting cancer treatment for a 30 year old…well, to me at least, the choice is clear. Healthcare is not an infinite resource. A dollar spent on one person is naturally a dollar less spent on another. There is only so much to go around. I have very clear directives – when the machines are keeping me alive with no real chance of change, harvest the organs and unplug me and let me go…then burn me up so I don’t waste any space. Cheers to all.

Scout

January 7th, 2011
12:59 pm

Cynthia:

Your thread is not getting much volume.

I’m outta here and over to Bookman.

JKL2

January 7th, 2011
12:59 pm

john k-Why bother with reality when “Obama’s gonna kill ya!” works so much better?

Obama doesn’t have the ability to make complicated decisions like that. The opinion poll would have to be really high before he would even consider such a thing.

Kamchak

January 7th, 2011
1:01 pm

kevinbgoode

January 7th, 2011
1:03 pm

Since conservatives don’t believe there is any dignity in being poor, it is hard to believe that they’d consider any dignity when it comes to a poor person’s death. As they tell us over and over again, “successful” people are wealthy – the poor only exist as a barometer for those “successful” people to gauge “success” by, and that is dignity enough for the lower classes. After all, no one is poor unless they are lazy and stupid.

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
1:07 pm

Scout must have missed the puppet theater addon tothis blog which makes us all blog for his entertainment.

As to why it was needed in Federal law, I believe the consultation was not paid for in all states.

Some People are misinformed

January 7th, 2011
1:09 pm

The misinformation on this blog is rampant as usual.

The law was not that you had to get end of life counseling, it was if you did get it, your insurance would pay for it. There is nothing about deciding when to pull the plug or your granny. It has nothing to do with rationing.

granny godzilla

January 7th, 2011
1:09 pm

Why make it a law.

Can tell you for sure, but I’d be willing to guess that some insurance providers wouldn’t pay for the consultation.

Our experience with our dear late Mimi and now with Pop staying with us for the winter has been that the doctor brought the subject up as part of the discussions during routine exams.

JKL2

January 7th, 2011
1:09 pm

kamchak-

Republican playbook–SQUIRREL

It only took 43 comments to bring out that one.

The Nerve

January 7th, 2011
1:11 pm

I had to read this several times to make sure my eyes weren’t deceiving me. A liberal preaching personal responsibility on something?!?!?!?! What a novel idea. Take responsibility for yourself and your family.

Maybe their is hope yet.

granny godzilla

January 7th, 2011
1:12 pm

The Nerve

I know….it’s like a conservative preaching fiscal responsibility!

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
1:15 pm

JKL…Hard to claim no playbook when the post links directly to the entire 28 page pdf playbook….

Kam thanks for the link.

JKL2

January 7th, 2011
1:15 pm

kevinbgoode- conservatives don’t believe there is any dignity in being poor

Thanks for explaining that. Maybe someone needs to tell all those illegal immigrants this is really the “Land of the Poor” and they’ll go home.

I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. — Benjamin Franklin

Kamchak

January 7th, 2011
1:19 pm

It only took 43 comments to bring out that one.

It took only 1 comment from me to bring out my leg-humper.

JKL2

January 7th, 2011
1:19 pm

Keep- As to why it was needed in Federal law, I believe the consultation was not paid for in all states

Let’s raise taxes and make another federal law because people are too stupid to take care of themselves. They’ll never survive unless that government tells them what to do.

Logical Dude

January 7th, 2011
1:23 pm

How about common sense coverage from insurance companies? As it stands now, the Insurance companies are the death panel. It sounds like having the patient more engaged in the end-of-life decisions, the power is moved away from the insurance company and into the individual.

And why is that bad?

granny godzilla

January 7th, 2011
1:25 pm

Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves purses which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near, nor moth destroys – Some poor guy from Nazareth

.WAKE-UP you fools READ THE BILLS for yourself.

January 7th, 2011
1:28 pm

People like CT can stand on the roof tops and say that it will never happen. Well maybe not to them. But what happens when the goverment decides the doctors will not be on the death pannels and they need special trained people to do it. Who is going to train these people.THE GOVERMENT WILL. What happens when the pannels decided that age is the only requirment for them to decide who dies. If some stranger can decieve a older person to clean out their bank accounts, how hard will it be for a person that the goverment says the people can trust, will help them to decide they are no longer needed on this earth. How many old people could the get to take the death pill just to help them out of their depresion? How many older people do you know that thinks they would be better off out of the way?
One other thing, there was not a death pannel provision in the bill the passed, how can they take some thing out if is was not in there?

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
1:28 pm

JKL well first taxes were lowered by the law and repealing it would cost $230 billion

Second..”people too stupid to take care of themselves”…you mean like someone in a coma after an accident who, with proper planning and consultation, has a healthcare directive that says pull the plug…..yeah pretty silly I guess. Certainly better for everyone to leave them plugged in when they would have wanted otherwise. Expect them all to know how to fill out the forms and make the proper choices or even to know that there are forms…

granny godzilla

January 7th, 2011
1:29 pm

WAKE-UP you fools
READ THE BILLS for
yourself.

I figure you account for about half the posts here today.

Is my number a little high or a little low?

AngryRedMarsWoman

January 7th, 2011
1:32 pm

“conservatives don’t believe there is any dignity in being poor”

huh? I don’t see you saying that conservatives don’t believe that a poor person can be dignified, just that there is not dignity in the status of poverty…in other words, you should be proud that you work hard, but not have pride in the state of being poor. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. When there are segments of society that believe it is “cool” to be on assistance or not work or just to be poor, then there is a problem. If a person is “scraping by” poor, he should be trying to find legal ways to change his situation for the better rather than looking for respect for his status….a poor person has dignity, but the state of being poor is nothing to be proud of.

kayaker 71

January 7th, 2011
1:44 pm

I certainly believe in living wills, members of the family designated as decision makers and proper decisions made by the decedent prior to buying the farm. Who ever said that the government should take part in this? The government has no business in the process of how I die, what decisions are made about my demise and how my family manages my death. In other words, I do not need the government’s help in decisions of this kind, not now, not ever.

Get Real

January 7th, 2011
1:45 pm

kevinbgoode January 7th, 2011 1:03 pm

Again painting conservatives with one broad brushstroke…..wrong

Granny and Nerve…both parties have sucked regarding fiscal responsibility. I am willing to give the new House majority more than 48 hours before I pass judgement on “lessons learned”. The jury is still out for most of us..

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
1:46 pm

k71…. ummm all the government was doing was requiring that you had the option to go to your doctor and ask questions and the insurance would pay for that consultation.

The government never once has indicted it made the decision for you.

granny godzilla

January 7th, 2011
1:52 pm

Get Real

I would have given them more time too if they hadn’t come out of the shoot so badly with that 100 billion dollars in cuts now being “hyperbole” and the Speakers poor performance in the Brian Williams interview.

Get Real

January 7th, 2011
1:57 pm

Granny….I am still going to wait, I admit the $100 billion is disappointing but again the jury is still out, 48 hours is way too soon. Regarding the Williams interview, I have to admit that I have not seen it….will have to google it

AngryRedMarsWoman

January 7th, 2011
1:57 pm

“all the government was doing was requiring that you had the option to go to your doctor and ask questions and the insurance would pay for that consultation”

You know, I don’t have an issue with that but then again I do. I work in healthcare. I see a great big door opening for fraud and we all know there is enough of that already in healthcare. I can see an unscrupulous provider saying “Hi Jim, how you feeling? Do you have a living will? No? You should.” and checking the box to get paid for an “end of life counseling” visit. Such a discussion should just be part of the yearly wellness check-up – no additional payment needed. It would be like paying a physician for smoking cessation counseling when he tells his patient “you really should quit smoking.”

granny godzilla

January 7th, 2011
2:00 pm

Get Real

After campaigning as deficit hawks for over a year, and 60 days past the mid-terms he was still unable to be specific about which programs he thinks should be cut.

I take away points for showing up for the first day of work unprepared.

I’d say seriously under-prepared.

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
2:06 pm

Well then Angry…you have auditors and certain requirements to confirm. Create whistleblower laws. Fearing fraud is not the answer. You implement checks and balances to be sure it is done properly. There are a great number of doctors who provide ethical service. Insurance companies can check just as they do checks to see if staff is providing all of the services providecd, and of course, “we all know” private industry can do this better than goverment, right?

JKL2

January 7th, 2011
2:14 pm

Keep- first taxes were lowered by the law and repealing it would cost $230 billion

I love that government accounting. It’s a cut because it didn’t go up as much as we wanted it to.

You realy believe any of this is going to save money? Nobody wants a cheeseburger until you tell them it’s free, then you have a line around the block. The Dem sent parameters to the CBO until the number was within the range they wanted it to be (under $1T). Problem is the last government program to come in on budget was Hoover Dam.

RomneyCare has bankrupted Massachusetts. Let’s extend it to everyone! What a good idea…

markie mark

January 7th, 2011
2:14 pm

Cynthia, I agree with most of your sentiment. However, I do not agree with your death panel statement. As Bookman and I agreed some weeks ago on his blog, there ARE death panels. Jay reluctantly agreed that in reality we have them. He just argues today that they are made of of individuals in insurance companies who make these life and death decisions. My viewpoint was that I have a better chance of arguing coverage with an insurance company than I do with a governmental entity in charge of making these financial and/or medical decisions.

AngryRedMarsWoman

January 7th, 2011
2:15 pm

They already exist, Keep. In fact, healthcare is awash with laws, regulations and related audits. I know there are a large number of physicians who are ethical – and as counsel to a larger healthcare company I can assure you that we tie ourselves into knots trying to stay on the right side of the myriad of laws and regulations that are many times unclear and sometimes ill-conceived. I also know that adding yet another level of reimbursement is not going to benefit the “good” doctors as much as it will open the door for fraud by the mills. I guess what I don’t understand is why this is a separately reimbursed service rather than part of a standard wellness visit for all old folks. If your doctor is not talking to you about your life in general when you come for a visit then you should find a new doctor, especially if you are over 40.

ctucker

January 7th, 2011
2:20 pm

Good Grief@11:37, What you heard were absolute and utter lies. The only “panel” was the patient and his/her doctor. No one else would have been involved

ctucker

January 7th, 2011
2:22 pm

Chris@11:48, I’m assuming you didn’t bother to read the post. If you had, you’d know that the only change made by a law was to have Medicare pay a doctor to bring the subject up with the patient. That was the entire “death panels” proposal.

ctucker

January 7th, 2011
2:24 pm

BeeJay@12:06, I’m sure you’re stuffed to the gills with FauxNews and WorldNetDaily, so there’s no room left for actual facts. But the only government involvement in the decision was having the government (that would be Medicare) pay the doctor to bring the subject up with patients.

George W

January 7th, 2011
2:24 pm

Tucker…..that day cannot come soon enough.

George W

January 7th, 2011
2:25 pm

I met with a CEO and CTO of a major hospital here in metro Atlanta. They are very much against Obama care. They were both Democrat leaning individuals but said this bill will bankrupt many private practice doctors and greatly deminish the care we now get in our local hospitals.

ctucker

January 7th, 2011
2:26 pm

Burroughston Broch@12:16, I’m sure you are also one of those who can’t be troubled by actual facts, but paying the doctor to “give the information and get out of the way” is exactly what the new proposal would have done.

ctucker

January 7th, 2011
2:27 pm

GetREal@12:20, The government intervened in the case of Terri Schiavo. (Were you troubled by that?) There is no government intervention in end-of-life counseling other than paying the doctor to ask you if you want a living will.

wtf?

January 7th, 2011
2:29 pm

It is well worth your time to do a little research on organ donation.

On the face it seems like the right hting to do, however, each year there are dozens of caes where someone (often time an hourly medical asst. or nurse has trmeendous say about who lives or dies. Often the scenario goes something like this: a person who may or may not have the same background,race, religion, staton in life, ect of the medical staff comes in after a car wreck where alcohol might or might not have been involved.

Down the hall is sweet young Jane Doe who is awaiting a new organ, who happens to go to the same church, school, college, ect, as the medical staffer. They either make or influence the decision that it be best to let Stranger Doe die so his/her organs can help Jane Doe who they are closer too. You can reseach this and you’ll be suprised how often this happens and how much (like anything these days) misguided good intentions and/or corruption are involved.

I’m not saying this always happens, but to me, life is so precious and to put the decsion to live or die in the hands of a stranger is the last thing I want. Someone playing God with my life? I don’t think so.

Thinnk twice before signing up for organ donation, it might be the most important decision you’ll ever make.

B

January 7th, 2011
2:30 pm

So let me get this right: you accuse republicans of “lying” about the fact that this horrid obamacare fiasco will indeed lead to some petty government bureaucrat making decisions about who qualifies for what types of care based on whether it’s cost effective or not. But you believe that the cooked CBO numbers will somehow magically lead obamacare to reduce the deficit.

Lord, what fools these mortal democrats be!

End-of-death counseling? No problem with that. But government sponsored/mandated “counseling”? How stupid do you think we are!?

Pretty damn dumb, obviously. That’s the point of this whole debate, Cynthia: we DO NOT want government meddling in our affairs. Period. Too damn much nanny state crap out there already! And you want more???? That’s quie frankly insane!

Oh, and your little rant about the “government takeover of healthcare” being a lie: of course it is a confiscation of our rights! When any damn peon is appointed to manipulate the decisions that individuals by right of being a citizen of this country shoul make him/herself, then that’s even more of the insane nanny state’s intrusion into our lives. We have far, far too much of it already and it’s about time that we reclaim our responsibilities as citizens, not cede yet more to Big Bro.

That’s what November was all about, but, of course, democrats are so steeped (like the proverbial dead frogs) of thinking that all this meddling is “necessary” that they’ll keep promoting the insanity and even more sadly, believe their drivel. Thank God the American people are smarter than these democrat “leaders.”.

AngryRedMarsWoman

January 7th, 2011
2:31 pm

“The government intervened in the case of Terri Schiavo. (Were you troubled by that?)” A million times, YES. That entire debacle was painful to watch. All it did was reinforce in my mind just how irrational most people are about dying when it comes to themselves or family members. Holy crap people, what is the problem here? If you are religious then you should welcome death so you/your loved one can go to heaven (or the destination of choice for your religion). If you are not religious, then what are you worried about? Everything comes to an end….except, apparently, The Simpsons.

Rafe Hollister

January 7th, 2011
2:33 pm

Sin-thee: It is called FREEDOM, not a word used much by Barry and the Chicago boys.

Yes, we should plan for the final decisions, but on our own time and in our own way. Freedom to do things our way. Freedom to do what is in our best interest, rather than let the decision be made by bureaucrats.

Get Real

January 7th, 2011
2:35 pm

Tucker…where do get that out of my 12:20 post?? Drs cannot draft living wills btw…

yuzeyurbrain

January 7th, 2011
2:37 pm

I don’t think it is purely a conservative v. liberal issue although opinions are probably weighted along those lines. It is a tough decision for anyone because we just don’t like to think about our own mortality. But it is the adult responsible thing to do. As to those that said just leave govt. out of it, I have news for you. The State of Georgia is deep in it already. There is a very detailed living will statute which you must follow if you want to be sure your wishes are followed. And that statute PROHIBITS medical or nursing home personnel from initiating a discussion of living wills. So Big Brother is already there, but on the side of those opposing living wills. And believe me, if you read every convuluted technical word in the statute, you will want to be able to ask your doctor what in the heck it means. So which side is enhancing the rights of the individual?

ctucker

January 7th, 2011
2:48 pm

GetRea@2:35: this is what you wrote: Why do we need the government to intervene with family/personal decisions? My question: What government intervention are you talking about? This is not about a doctor drafting anything. Did you read the post?

ctucker

January 7th, 2011
2:50 pm

B@2:30, There is no government mandated counseling. But you didn’t bother to read the post, did you?

ctucker

January 7th, 2011
2:50 pm

George W@2:25, If they said that, they are ignorant of the bill.

Logical Dude

January 7th, 2011
2:53 pm

wtf says “You can reseach this and you’ll be suprised how often this happens and how much (like anything these days) misguided good intentions and/or corruption are involved.”

The MAYO CLINIC SAYS:
Myth: If I agree to donate my organs, the hospital staff won’t work as hard to save my life.
Fact: When you go to the hospital for treatment, doctors focus on saving your life — not somebody else’s. You’ll be seen by a doctor whose specialty most closely matches your particular emergency. The doctor in charge of your care has nothing to do with transplantation.

Please, wft?, don’t spread misinformation about stuff that has saved my own life.

Dem Lies

January 7th, 2011
2:57 pm

Cynthia
As usual you just don’t get it. It’s not your decision or the governments on how a person decides to either get medical treatment or not. The government has NO business in the decision at all. A person can choose what they think is best for them and their family. You or Washington have no right to judge or decide for them. PERIOD.

Libby

January 7th, 2011
2:57 pm

Terry Schiavo was mis-diagnosed; course you liberals would never admit to any mistakes.

Way to go Scout!

Dan

January 7th, 2011
2:58 pm

No CT the doctor bringing up options is not even close to what was meant by the “death panels” comment. The comment illustrates the inevitable decision of when an end of life decision is made do to rationing as opposed to the patients wishes. Those decisions of course would be made by a gov employee or panel based on cost and availability ie death panel. A scenario that is common in other state sanctioned programs and inevitable in this one.

Dan

January 7th, 2011
3:00 pm

CT George is absolutely correct and anyone who has studied the bill such as health care actuaries and benefit management professionals will tell you that. Heck the speaker at the time said “we have to pass this to see whats in it. So most people are ignorant of the bill expcept for those whose job it is to implement the monstrosity

ctucker

January 7th, 2011
3:04 pm

Dan@2:58, If the doctor bringing up options is not what they meant, they were did death panels come from? Republicans in congress at the time said the reaction was in response to exactly that proposal. After all, there are no proposals for “rationing” in the new health care law. No government panels. No bureaucrats, unless you mean those employed by insurance companies.

Kamchak

January 7th, 2011
3:04 pm

Heck the speaker at the time said “we have to pass this to see whats in it.

The lie that will not die.

If you’re gonna put something in quotes, you really should verify the accuracy of your quote, sport.

ctucker

January 7th, 2011
3:04 pm

Dem Lies@2:57, you get an “F” for reading comprehension.

granny godzilla

January 7th, 2011
3:05 pm

Terry Schaivo was what?

David S

January 7th, 2011
3:06 pm

The FDA, the AMA, state license boards, the DEA, and others already act as death panels as they currently prohibit both the use and open education about natural and far more effective therapies to most of the diseases that BigPharma profits so heavily from. Just today the FDA moved to ban the manufacture of Vitamin C for intravenous use. You may not personally care to use this wonderful miracle compound but many have effectively battled burn damage and cancer with this vitamin. Intravenous injection is required for high doses because the digestive tract cannot handle amounts above 12g at a time. Personally I received a 50g IV of vitamin C once, it did no harm, and should have been my choice along with my doctor, not the “death panel” of the FDA. Medical marijuana has been shown in dozens of studies (some even by the NIH) to be quite medially effective yet the federal government currently bans it and has thrown many in jail for it. Peter McWilliams, the brilliant author was killed by the FDA/DEA death panel in just this manner. He died in prison without his medicine.

Anytime the government is involved in ANYTHING that is vital to life, their actions to restrict freedom will inevitably result in death.

Yes, Cynthia, there are DEATH PANELS. But they were there long before Obama Care set the wheels in motion for additional ones.

Logical Dude

January 7th, 2011
3:07 pm

Dan,
Can you quote the poion of legistlation that has the “death Panel” as you describe?

Otherwise, you misquoting Speaker Pelosi makes you lose a little credibility.

Otherwise, I agree that end of life decisions should be between a doctor and patient and family. The Republicans describing them as “death panels” does a disservice to anyone in this situation. If there was a real rationing of healthcare, then it should be described as such.

John Birch

January 7th, 2011
3:08 pm

I have a durable power of attorney for health care and a livving will but so what? Two more years of Obama and we’ll all be dead under an Iraninan mushroom cloud anyway!

stw

January 7th, 2011
3:09 pm

How can someone as ignorant of the facts as CT is continue to be allowed to preach her liberal dribble to the AJC readers (as few as there are now) ? When the liberals drive down the fees to doctors and throw everyone into the system it will be a death sentence to more than a few. We’ll see fewer doctors and more “freebie health care”…

B

January 7th, 2011
3:11 pm

Yes , Cynthia: I read your post and was responding accordingly. The death panels exist despite the fact that the aforementioned language was removed from the bill. But you are arguing, it seems, that the language should have remained, and it’s that point with which I disagree.

Unfortunately, we all havevbeen frogs over the last how-many decades, allowing Big Bro to intrude more and more into our lives. I’m very excited about the fact that we seem to be–finally–recognizing how far the tentacles are. And we’re finally screamingENOUGH. So, no, we do not want government mandated counseling. And, yes, I was totally POed at the government’s response to the Schivo case. I can totally be right to life when it comes to murdering babies for the sake of convenience without claiming that it’s in any way a good thing to deny the elderly and infirm the right to death with dignity.

kevinbgoode

January 7th, 2011
3:11 pm

AngryRedMarsWoman sez: “you should be proud that you work hard, but not have pride in the state of being poor. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. When there are segments of society that believe it is “cool” to be on assistance or not work or just to be poor, then there is a problem.”
—————————————————————————-
Isn’t the conservative mantra that it is impossible to be work hard and be poor? Besides, I thought it was considered standard Republican belief that the goal of working hard is to eventually make money not working at all. So isn’t there a segment of the population who believes that “assistance” for themselves is being in a state of “not working” and living off of making “their” money “work” for them? Of course, we have no idea where that money came from . . .we just have to trust conservatives that they “worked” for it, even if it meant generating “convenience” fees as an employee of a bank.

dawg

January 7th, 2011
3:12 pm

I see where Robt Gibbs is leaving his job which pays $172,000/year and Obama says that’s a MODERATE amount of income, but he wants to tax those millionaires and billionaires who make $200,000/ year. Somehow this doesn’t quite make sense…

Logical Dude

January 7th, 2011
3:13 pm

David says: “I received a 50g IV of vitamin C once”

Why?

I ask because you see many items in health food stores claiming benefits, but also have the required note “Claims not evaluated by the FDA”. Was it for a cold? Cancer? Blood thinner?

If the FDA bans something, it’s usually because there is no benefit based on the claims.

I do agree wtih you on Medical Marijuana. Having a spouse with cancer, I saw how legal usage worked against nausea and pain with fewer side effects than the regular powerful pills.

Some People are misinformed

January 7th, 2011
3:13 pm

Are you people slow.
The goverment isn’t mandating anything. Read this slowly

IF YOU ELECT TO GET END OF LIFE COUNSELING, MEDICAE WILL PAY FOR IT.

This isn’t about you being forced into anything. It isn’t about the goverment saying whether you live or die..I swear, do some of yall have a comprehension problem.

ctucker

January 7th, 2011
3:14 pm

B@3:11, The health care law is online, all 2000-odd pages. Please give me the citation for the “death panels.”

kevinbgoode

January 7th, 2011
3:14 pm

B sez: “So, no, we do not want government mandated counseling.”
——————————————————————————————————
Of course not. We want private insurance company mandated “counseling” without any say in the procedure, any regulation, or any appeal when they deny benefits. After all, isn’t it the patriotic duty of the American people to pay duties to companies which promise services but have no requirement (and no government enforcement) for them to actually provide those services?

I see...

January 7th, 2011
3:17 pm

Death panels arose out of the fact that there will be rationing when the government gets involved in healthcare. And when rationing is involved some bureacrat is going to make a decision that essentially ends someone’s life. Whether it is a true death panel or not, I don’t know. Kinda like Social Security, nobody ever dreamed of there being more people drawing than paying.

ctucker

January 7th, 2011
3:17 pm

kevinbgoode@3:14, B gets an “F’ in reading comprehension, too. As my column says very clearly, any counseling would have been strictly voluntary.

ctucker

January 7th, 2011
3:18 pm

Some People are misinformed@As I’ve been reminded today, many of my readers are facts-averse. They live in an alternative reality

Azazel

January 7th, 2011
3:21 pm

about 12 years ago I did research for the Robert Woods Johnson Foundation, who paid for extensive focus group data collection all over the US — about 60 groups in all.
The research had 2 purposes. One, collect attitudes about death and dying; and, two, how to package information about living wills or advanced directives.
Some highlights: – overwhelmingly,no one wanted to expend their savings on life support that would not lead to complete recovery; — no one wanted to continue living if their quality of life was compromised or diminished in some degree; –no one wanted to suffer pain and most were willing to acept experimental and potnetially lethal pain relief.
Additionally, this research was used to support the Oregon Right to Die Law.

Some People are misinformed

January 7th, 2011
3:21 pm

I blame FOX
Since Obama has been elected, that makes Fox the voice of the minority. And Fox could care less about facts. How in todays world can words be spelled as simple as we will pay for it get converted into Death Panels.

barking frog

January 7th, 2011
3:24 pm

A dignified Southern comedian once said that
it is better to be a wise man than to be a rich man
because a wise man can always freeload off a
rich man. Many of the rich suffer from wisdom envy.

ctucker

January 7th, 2011
3:26 pm

Azazel@3:21, Thanks for adding your expertise to this blog

barking frog

January 7th, 2011
3:34 pm

Much of the revenue to Healthcare Providers is from
the increased need for care in the final days of patients
lives. Many people choosing to not be treated could
wreck our healthcare system especially in the long
term care industry.

Rob

January 7th, 2011
3:39 pm

“You spin me right round, baby, right round, like a record, baby, round round.”

You know, you don’t HAVE to damage control and take the same side on EVERY issue. And I think the main gripe is that end of life decisions are fine–but they need to be conducted with a medical professional, and not a professional bureaucrat or non-elected, un-accountable professional official.

JKL2

January 7th, 2011
3:41 pm

kamchak- The lie that will not die

“But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy” -Nany Pelosi

granny godzilla

January 7th, 2011
3:41 pm

“”And I think the main gripe is that end of life decisions are fine–but they need to be conducted with a medical professional, and not a professional bureaucrat or non-elected, un-accountable professional official.”"

Are the any Republicans left who have any reading comprehension at all?

Damn the GOP for years of education cuts.

ctucker

January 7th, 2011
3:44 pm

Granny@3:41, So glad you said it so I didn’t have to

killerj

January 7th, 2011
3:44 pm

Just like to Jay,you pay to live.I just make sure my love one,s are taken care of weather the government agree,s with it or not,everyone faces the same ending,the trick is not to be extorted before you do expire.

Some People are misinformed

January 7th, 2011
3:46 pm

Who says we don’t need more funding in education. Reading Comprehension is a thing of the past.

Kamchak

January 7th, 2011
3:50 pm

“But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy” -Nany[sic] Pelosi

Very good.

Now let us revisit Danny-poo’s quote.

Heck the speaker at the time said “we have to pass this to see whats in it.

Not even close to being the same.

ButtHead

January 7th, 2011
3:53 pm

If you have a living will then there is no need for this law, but that requires individual responsibility and the loser liberals don’t know what individual responsibility is, they want a collective. The liberal left dreams about the Borg…..Treckkies will get it…

Jesse Jackson has a scheme for you......

January 7th, 2011
3:55 pm

Yeah we have Mis-informed Granny back with us on another senseless blog from CT.

B

January 7th, 2011
3:57 pm

Cynthia: you’re being needlessly, but not surprisingly, obtuse. The phrase may not exist: woopdedooo. The fact that some peon paper-pusher who should not even have a job gets to determine which procedures are cost effective and which aren’t means that the death panels are firmly in place. whether you want to admit it or not.

What is so hard to understand about this fact?

What is driving you and the other left-leaning posters nuts is this: this country has had it and the standard big gov operating procedures we all are suffering from are being challenged in a way not seen for a long, long time. We must wean ourselves from the teat. We have no choice.

They BOTH suck

January 7th, 2011
3:58 pm

@B

Are you saying that under current rules and regulations that insurance companies are not making those type decisions today?

They BOTH suck

January 7th, 2011
3:59 pm

@B

Funny you tried to rationalize based on some talking points, but couldn’t point to where it was ‘inferred’ in the actual bill

granny godzilla

January 7th, 2011
4:00 pm

Jesse Jackson has
a scheme for you……

What’s this your 30th name change today.

I have to admire your evil tenacity.

Or I could, like Rep King recently said about Speaker Boehners simply say:

Your mendacity is above reproach.

(Course it appears King had that same GOP comprehension problem and does not know what mendacity means)

ButtHead

January 7th, 2011
4:02 pm

“Are the any Republicans left who have any reading comprehension at all?”
Granny I hope you are being sarcastic, but I don’t think so. So who was it that said “We need to pass it so we can see what is in it” Was it the GOP that wanted to pass a 2700 page bill without reading it? Or was it the GOP that wanted it passed BEFORE anybody could read it; was it the GOP that refused to put it online like the dimacrats promised? Dam the GOP for education cuts, are you delusional, it was the idiot dimacrats who REFUSED to read the bill, who was it that said “You expect us to read this before we vote, that is crazy” was it the GOP, NO IT WAS THE DIMACRATS>>>>

granny godzilla

January 7th, 2011
4:03 pm

ctucker

it is the education issue that disturbs me the most.

creating a another generation of poorly educated Americans puts our nation and our way of life in grave danger.

Jesse Jackson has a scheme for you......

January 7th, 2011
4:04 pm

Name Change Granny? Not me……I have always KNOWn that Jesse Jackson has a scheme for everyone in this great country……

My problem, is there is no LIB who will admit to how much of a failure this Obamacare is for the country……I mean….it is true that you have to have a brain and be able to comprehend simple financials…….I just thought more LIBS had brains……my fault I guess

They BOTH suck

January 7th, 2011
4:04 pm

Butthead

Are you implying that all bills sponsored by the Repubs from 1994 to 2006 were read by all Repubs in Congress? Are you implying that they never pushed any bill and played politics?

granny godzilla

January 7th, 2011
4:06 pm

Butthead

Your post confirms my statement.

Very very sad.

granny godzilla

January 7th, 2011
4:06 pm

jesse

i don’t beleive you

Really last word

January 7th, 2011
4:08 pm

CT states “It was hard enough to lay my father to rest under those circumstances. I simply cannot imagine how painful it would have been if he been too sick to tell us how he wanted to die.”

And, telling a doctor would have made it any better and the doctor advising your father about end-of-life directives? It is a private matter and in instances like Ms. Tucker’s dad, I would think most would take their final days and let their wishes be known . . . whether verbally to their spouse, a child or other close relative or friend, or in a legally binding document.

I don’t think it is necessary for Medicare to pay a doctor to discuss end-of-life directives. What about all those individuals not on Medicare who are in a life-threatening accident or who have a deadly disease. Why Medicare? Are we to assume that everyone on Medicare are seniors?

They BOTH suck

January 7th, 2011
4:08 pm

This health care bill with all it’s warts for the most part will stand the test of time………….

Republicans know this but they must throw the ‘flock’ a bone after the big win in November. Anything they pass will die in the Senate and there will be some Repubs in the Senate who will be running from any changes as fast as they can. Demint and several others will make some noise, but die it will. It is a ruse to keep you captivated. Dems do the same thing.

Going to be some sad people when the SC allows most if not all of this LAW to stand as it is.

Jesse Jackson has a scheme for you......

January 7th, 2011
4:10 pm

What don’t you believe Granny?

Kamchak

January 7th, 2011
4:11 pm

So who was it that said “We need to pass it so we can see what is in it”

Conservatives, misquoting Nancy Pelosi.

james

January 7th, 2011
4:11 pm

let’s see- the US Constitution is too long and complicated for the libs but 2200 pages of nonsensical garble is ok. How can one even debate such a nonsensical titanic of a so called bill? Burn it, shred it, start it over and include a common sense immigration bill (the two are very much hand in hand). Clearly the libs simply love it to love it.

They BOTH suck

January 7th, 2011
4:14 pm

@James

I see the Repubs in Congress who KNOW that this facade of a repeal vote that is going nowhere have you worked up. Their plan to keep you captivated is working like a charm.

ButtHead

January 7th, 2011
4:14 pm

Yes it is very sad that the reality is that the dimarats are the ones who did not want anybody to read before the vote. The really sad thing is that you did not address one thing I said, because it was all true….

Kamchak

January 7th, 2011
4:14 pm

Clearly the libs simply love it to love it.

No, but thanks for playing. Please see Vanna on your way out for your lovely parting gifts, including a lifetime supply of Rice-A-Roni—The San Fransisco Treat!

Kamchak

January 7th, 2011
4:16 pm

The really sad thing is that you did not address one thing I said, because it was all true…

No Democrat ever said, “We need to pass it so we can see what is in it,” sport.

They BOTH suck

January 7th, 2011
4:17 pm

@Butthead

That is why we have a SC. I’m sure that the conservative leaning court will say that this law is not constitutional………..right?

You are going to crap your pants when these lawsuits finally get to the SC and most of the bill is still in tact after they making their rulings..

I’m not saying it is a good bill, not saying politics were not played… but the Repubs in Congress are PLAYING you for money and votes if they have you believing that this law is going away

james

January 7th, 2011
4:17 pm

TBSuck- there are very few things that get me “worked up” I can describe them (her) to you but I think you get the point.

btw- from a moderate- raising the sales tax in GA to cut corporate taxes will result in the state continuing to be not be held accountable for its finances.

ButtHead

January 7th, 2011
4:18 pm

They both suck
Like the name, no I am not saying that I was resending the foolish statement by Granny. But then again I never saw the GOP push a 2700 page bill written by lobbyist that would effect very American either.

james

January 7th, 2011
4:19 pm

Kam- I glance- key term glance- through your posts and move on to more intelligent reads like green eggs and ham- no need to respond to my posts in the future big un

Harry Callahan

January 7th, 2011
4:21 pm

Cynthia, why do we as individuals, or our families, need to be prepared to make these decisions when Obama and his thug liberal cohorts intend to make them for us?

Kamchak

January 7th, 2011
4:22 pm

Kam- I glance- key term glance- through your posts and move on…

So?

granny godzilla

January 7th, 2011
4:23 pm

Butthead

I will try this one more time with you, as I am a good christian woman and sincerely want to help you.

The quote you keep misqouting was a phrase spoken by the former Speaker of the House in response to a question about what changes to the bill would occur in the senate.

she said, as she is a member of the house not the senate – that we’d have to wait and see what came out of the senate.

because she could not possibly have know what the senate would change.

it really is very simple and straight forward.

your real concern should be why the folks who started spreading the mis-quote around want you to believe a lie.

why are the people whose political idealogy you espouse telling you stuff like this. what’s in it for them?

Harry Callahan

January 7th, 2011
4:23 pm

“creating a another generation of poorly educated Americans puts our nation and our way of life in grave danger.”

Then why do you want to leave education in the hands of the same liberal moonbats who have spent the last generation wrecking it?

ButtHead

January 7th, 2011
4:24 pm

Kamchack
Nancy Pelosi say it….

Harry Callahan

January 7th, 2011
4:26 pm

“I know….it’s like a conservative preaching fiscal responsibility!”

I’m a conservative, and I’m quite confident I have invested wisely and set aside quite enough to live comfortably in my retirement, without benefit of government programs or handouts. You?

They BOTH suck

January 7th, 2011
4:27 pm

@BH

Bills are written and influenced by lobbyists ALL the time……..
Nothing new.. Fox and the pundits would have one believe that this only plays out when Dems are in power. Repubs do the same thing. It is great to watch both sides accuse the other of what they do themselves and than get their constituencies to bash the other Party………… Hypocritical but very funny…..

When you have a few minutes look up the history of insurance companies not being able to sell across state lines……… In most cases the insurance industry lobbies on state and national levels to have the laws put in place than had their lobbyists cry to the Repubs so they would make a big deal out of it when the health care debate was going on.
And many on the right without doing any homework believe or at least potray that this is some elaborate left wing plan to keep down competition. THE INDUSTRY WANTED THIS. It allows certain companies to take HUGE segments in of the market in certain states. Yes they miss out in other areas but make up for it in other states.

Look up Blue Cross and the recent article where doctors are complaining about them having TOO much of the market here in GA

Harry Callahan

January 7th, 2011
4:27 pm

“Damn the GOP for years of education cuts.”

Prove it.

Kamchak

January 7th, 2011
4:29 pm

Kamchack
Nancy Pelosi say[sic] it….

No, she really didn’t.

ButtHead

January 7th, 2011
4:29 pm

Granny,
You really like to be consistently incorrect, please Google those words, she is on camera saying “We have to pass it to see what is in it.” I am not sure what you believe you heard or what you think she said… but those are her exact words…So again who did NOT read the bill that was supposed to be online for 72 hours before a vote, are you going to tell me they put it online before the vote now?

They BOTH suck

January 7th, 2011
4:31 pm

@HC

From FOX website 12/4/05
Took all of 25 seconds… Do YOUR homework…………
Next

Congress Approves Education Cuts

Wednesday, December 14, 2005

* Print
* ShareThis

WASHINGTON — Lawmakers voted Wednesday to cut federal aid to education for the first time in a decade as the House narrowly passed a spending bill that would freeze or cut back a wide variety of domestic programs.

The $602 billion measure covers education, health research, and medical and job training programs, among others. After years of budget increases, the measure essentially imposes a 1 percent cut to programs funded at lawmakers’ discretion, providing $142.5 billion for them. The rest of the funding in the bill represents mandatory payments, chiefly for the Medicare and Medicaid programs.

ButtHead

January 7th, 2011
4:31 pm

TBS
So that is OK with you? Lobbing should be illegal…

ButtHead

January 7th, 2011
4:31 pm

Harry Callahan

January 7th, 2011
4:32 pm

from the Heritage Foundation…

“Many people believe that lack of funding is a problem in public education,[10] but historical trends show that American spending on public education is at an all-time high. Between 1994 and 2004, average per-pupil expenditures in American public schools have increased by 23.5 percent (adjusted for inflation). Between 1984 and 2004, real expenditures per pupil increased by 49 percent.[11] These increases follow the historical trend of ever-increasing real per-student expenditures in the nation’s public schools. In fact, the per-pupil expenditures in 1970-1971 ($4,060) were less than half of per-pupil expenditures in 2005-2006 ($9,266) after adjusting for inflation.[12] “

They BOTH suck

January 7th, 2011
4:33 pm

@BH

You are making some valid points and Kam is surely confused, but in the end if (when) the SC allows the law or at least most of it to stand, what Pelosi said or didn’t say will not matter

Harry Callahan

January 7th, 2011
4:33 pm

They BOTH Suck…

…or maybe you should do YOUR homework…

granny godzilla

January 7th, 2011
4:33 pm

Butt Head

as in pass it though the senate…..

please think

please please think

Harry Callahan

January 7th, 2011
4:35 pm

If true that a 1% cut happened in 2005, 1% of $9,266 is $92.66 per student. So we’ve still doubled our spending and out kids still don’t know jack.

By the way, you and granny are the poster children for the failure of public education in this country.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Harry Callahan

January 7th, 2011
4:36 pm

Granny, Kammy…

Pelosi said it. She really did. PLEASE think.

granny godzilla

January 7th, 2011
4:36 pm

Anyway All,

It’s friday night family steak night and there are potatoes to peel and and tables to be pushed together and set….

Hope you all have a good weekend and watch out for that storm coming in Sunday.

Harry Callahan

January 7th, 2011
4:37 pm

Hey granny…you and your Pops still spreading that gross lie about Bush I’s military service?

what pathetic little hate-mongers you are…

They BOTH suck

January 7th, 2011
4:37 pm

@BH

Didnt say lobbying was ok, however it is being naive or dishonest to think that the Repubs do not do the same exact thing. We can argue all day who does it the most, etc but in the end it is done for bills that split Party lines and for bills that are nonpartisan and have support from both-sides.

Obama was stupid to speak out against lobbyist in his campaign. Both Parties take their money, employ them and in many cases become lobbyist when their political careers are over.

I say they have too much influence, but DC isn’t listening to me the last time I checked

They BOTH suck

January 7th, 2011
4:39 pm

@HC

Do not be mad at me because you wanted it proved and within seconds I posted what YOU thought wasn’t true from your favorite ‘news’ source

james

January 7th, 2011
4:40 pm

granny- under contract for 50+ year inner city ymca plus 5 acres surrounding. Will start developing an inner city rec and learning center with two new restaurant franchises in a distressed area. on a marta line that is under utilized but will be key to hiring 50-100 disabled and disadvantaged workers. stay tuned and “how do you like them apples?”

Harry Callahan

January 7th, 2011
4:41 pm

@ sucks

Do not be mad because you think our schools are failing due to lack of funding, when in fact they are failing because they are run by incompetent liberals.

Harry Callahan

January 7th, 2011
4:42 pm

james…facts are irrelevant to granny

They BOTH suck

January 7th, 2011
4:44 pm

@HC

man you love to make assumptions……… I NEVER said the education system was great or needed more funding. I simply proved you wrong in terms of cuts.

You can be mad or downplay it by bringing up something I didnt say or even imply if that make you feel better, but at least have the intellectual honesty to say you were wrong on that issue.

Kamchak

January 7th, 2011
4:45 pm

You are making some valid points and Kam is surely confused…

Not at all.

When using quotation marks, I believe it is imperative to be accurate.

The full quote: “we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of controversy.”

Conservatives invariably leave out the word “you” making it seem that Ms. Pelosi doesn’t know what’s in the bill.

They BOTH suck

January 7th, 2011
4:46 pm

To everyone on this blog…………………………. Have a great weekend and if the snow does come in, please be careful if you are out and about……….
Peace

kevinbgoode

January 7th, 2011
5:09 pm

james sez: “let’s see- the US Constitution is too long and complicated for the libs ”
———————————————————-
Most Americans expect our elected representatives to already be familiar with the Constitution before running for Congress – instead of spending a cool million reading the document out loud on the House floor. Apparently the GOP didn’t learn from their circus performance during the Terri Schiavo fiasco that publicity stunts might seem great at the time, but end up leaving a lingering image of ignorance in the minds of the masses.

kevinbgoode

January 7th, 2011
5:11 pm

Henry Callahan sez: “I’m a conservative, and I’m quite confident I have invested wisely and set aside quite enough to live comfortably in my retirement, without benefit of government programs or handouts.”
——————————————————————–
The entire idea of investment is to receive a “handout” from someone – the money doesn’t grow on trees. Don’t conservatives believe in working hard even in retirement and, if not, then why should they be entitled to be wealthy?

kevinbgoode

January 7th, 2011
5:13 pm

Harry Callahan sez: “from the Heritage Foundation…”
——————————————————————————————–
And what is the Heritage Foundation’s agenda?

kevinbgoode

January 7th, 2011
5:16 pm

Harry sez: “Cynthia, why do we as individuals, or our families, need to be prepared to make these decisions when Obama and his thug liberal cohorts intend to make them for us?”
——————————————————————
On now, Harry – you certainly don’t mind insurance companies making these decisions for us, one way or the other. After all, how else are conservatives going to get the appropriate return on their investment so they can secure their entitlement of a “no-handout” retirement?

pajama pants

January 7th, 2011
5:39 pm

repubs love death, they get off on it

wtf?

January 7th, 2011
5:41 pm

logical dude – i’m glad it saved your life, but if you research it, there has been mishandling of organ donations at many steps along the way, and decisions have been made based on someone’s judgement of whom deserves to live more…..i’m just stating facts……it’s human nature and the people who run hospitals are not perfect……..my personal feeling is, why risk it? You only get one life. Why let a stranger have even a 1/1000 chance of being partial to someone else who ‘needs’ an organ more than you.

Again Logical Dude, I’m glad it worked out for you, but your case alone doesn’t prove the system is 100% perfect.

wtf?

January 7th, 2011
5:44 pm

Logical dude – BTW – I’m all for stem cell research to aid in organ replacement, so we wouldn’t have an organ shortage, you can’t put a lid on technology, history has proved that, so hopefully this issue will improve in the near future and the bible thumpers won’t stand in the way…kudos to Obama on this issue

[...] responsible and you can’t sue us.” That’d go over well with all the people screeching about Death Panels, wouldn’t [...]

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

January 7th, 2011
6:32 pm

The government has already denied care to those who wanted it, this decision being made by a panel and based on cost, so babble on Queen Pinko, babble on.

In ignorance.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

January 7th, 2011
6:40 pm

The FDA has, however, been more frugal with taxpayer funds when they are to be spent on treating seriously ill patients. Last July, the FDA announced that it was about to take the anti-cancer drug Avastin “off-label.” Such a decision effectively denies patients access to the drug involved because the off-label designation provides Medicare and other health insurers with a pretext to stop paying for it. For Avastin, which is used to treat breast cancer, this travesty was originally scheduled to take place in September. But, in an incredibly cynical political decision, the FDA delayed implementation until after the midterm elections. In December, however, they took Avastin off-label. Thus, as Dr. Milton Wolf phrases it in the Washington Times, “For the first time in our history, the government has banned the use of a cancer drug based not on its safety or even efficacy, but on its financial cost.”

These liberals are creepy little people.

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
6:47 pm

Whiner…you mean the STATE REPUBLICAN GOVT of ARIZ has created its own death panel, proving that the means already exists and had absolutely nothing to do with the real provisions in healthcare reform. Babble on Whiner

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
6:53 pm

Whiner…are you ever going to post something that is not skewed and a lie. From CNN:

The controversial drug Avastin should be phased out as a treatment for metastatic breast cancer, the Food and Drug Administration said Thursday, citing recent studies that show its benefits may be outweighed by dangerous side effects.

Maybe you are suffering side effects. Them Whiners are creepy ignornant people.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

January 7th, 2011
7:23 pm

Keep UpChuk the Food Fight!-

Both the Susan G. Komen Foundation and the Ovarian Cancer National Alliance have sent letters to the FDA urging it not to revoke approval. They rightly believe that treatment decisions should remain exclusively in the hands of individual patients and their doctors. After all, those are the people best positioned to weigh costs and benefits and decide which course of treatment is best.

Let’s see here, you can have a risk of a stomach perforation or you can die a certain death from breast cancer, hmmmmmmm, I wonder what most women would decide, gee, gosh.

Or we can let mouth breathers like Food Fight make these decisions for us, just sayin….

Nothing Is Free

January 7th, 2011
7:30 pm

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin…

Be careful. He’s been here for yet another full ten hour day of trying desperately to make himself feel better about his pathetic, blogging all day life.

Last night he had a complete meltdown and started accusing me of raping Black women.

Consider his family. Imagine dealing with him in person. Irrational, a chip on his shoulder as big as the sky and the mentality of a tantrum throwing 4 year old. And after a full day of being humiliated yet another full day and you have a domestic abuse call waiting to happen.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

January 7th, 2011
7:31 pm

By the way, I guess President Daley didn’t like the way things were going at the White House, so he appointed his brother to watch over Barakkk thee obozo, just sayin, hahahaha.

Kamchak

January 7th, 2011
7:39 pm

Wow.

Talk about obsessive.

:shock:

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
7:47 pm

Nonsense…..do you really want to start again with your bully efforts and lies.. You wnt to attack my family and falsely claim, in true, Beck fashion, domestic abuse. Lets be very clear. You want to make false personal allegations about my family and my relationship, then you are truly the low-life scum trolll that everyone knows. You had the chance to move on this morning but now you want to have another go at me personally.

Nothing is Free, why wont you deny that you did not rape a woman and sleep with your mother. I mean I dont believe you did it and I have no evidence but you have none for your claims and you continue to repeat them as if they were true, so in direct parody of your Beck style, why oh why wont you just deny that you did not rape a woman and have sex with your mother. You whine that you dont like this but you continue your tantrum and over the line style when CT is not here to ban you like the troll you really are. Just deny it Nonsense.

And if anyone wants the truth about yesterday and not Nothing’s lies…here’s the link Oh and lets be clear…I never said anything about a black woman…your racism is showing again.

Get Real

January 7th, 2011
7:53 pm

kevinbgoode January 7th, 2011 5:11 pm

“The entire idea of investment is to receive a “handout” from someone – the money doesn’t grow on trees. Don’t conservatives believe in working hard even in retirement and, if not, then why should they be entitled to be wealthy?”

Are you kidding me? Were you in a head on collision and the air bag failed to deploy? I plan to be quite active in retirement if I can ever get there but your statements are insane. Perhaps you meant it in jest, we can only hope…

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
8:00 pm

Does anyone have a can of Troll B Gon handy?

Get Real

January 7th, 2011
8:02 pm

Wow, just read all the recent posts….

Looks like its Friday Night Fights….

LET’S GET READY TO RUMBLE….

Kamchak

January 7th, 2011
8:03 pm

I think someone has a man-crush on you, Keep.

Eeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwww!

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
8:04 pm

Real…yep. I did not start the fight but I plan to finish it.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

January 7th, 2011
8:06 pm

(CNN) – The number of Americans identifying themselves as Democrats is at its lowest point in seven years, according to a new survey by Gallup – a warning sign for the president and his party as the next race for the White House gets set to begin.

Yeah and how many of them are brainwashed, hahahahaha.

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
8:06 pm

Troll crush, more likely. Is there an app to crush trolls?

Get Real

January 7th, 2011
8:09 pm

Down goes Frazier

Down goes Frazier

Nothing Is Free

January 7th, 2011
8:11 pm

OMG He’s still here.

At least tonight you can go to Bookman’s and pretend you are in a social situation, probably the only one that you and you lack of emotional control can handle.

So how many hours this week, kid? 50-60, and in every argument, you are completely humiliated. .

Well, not my problem. My problem is making reservations for two at this late on Friday night.

Have fun at the cyber party at Bookman’s loser. It’s the closest you will ever get to an actual social situation, but considering your lack of emotional control, that’s definitely best.

Ta-ta, and please take it easy on whomever you live with.

You really need to get a life.

Nothing Is Free

January 7th, 2011
8:15 pm

Kammy

It’s not me that has been tongue kissing the little twit.

You and the loser have fun at bookman’s pretending to be in a social situation.

Maybe you could dedicate a song to him. Calm him down.

Get a life, Kammy.

You are getting really bitter.

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
8:17 pm

in every argument, you are completely humiliated

Is everyone just as devastated by this news as I must be humiliated? He reminds me of the first guy in this clip.

Nothing Is Free

January 7th, 2011
8:18 pm

Loser

BTW. Reported you again for reposting a rape accusation.

Nothing Is Free

January 7th, 2011
8:19 pm

Oh you are back.

Have you ever had a date?

Nothing Is Free

January 7th, 2011
8:20 pm

Kammy and your butt buddy:

See ya. I won’t be thinking about you.

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
8:21 pm

But not the part about you sleeping with your mother…interesting that only one part of the parody of your offensive Beck style would be something you report like a bully who tries to beat up someone in the school yard and gets a big can of whup azz.

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
8:23 pm

Now why dont you be a good little troll…quit while you are behind and just keep move on without the insults and lies…

Kamchak

January 7th, 2011
8:23 pm

Tick…tick…tick….

Get Real

January 7th, 2011
8:27 pm

I was on a blog and a hockey game broke out

Paddy O

January 7th, 2011
8:30 pm

the question is of course – is it wise to squander taxpayer $$ to pay a highly trained Dr compensation FOR TALKING TO A CITIZEN? Should that citizen, with the assistance of newspapers for information, be able to accomplish this without the spoon feeding policies of the liberal left, composed primarily of the female gender?

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
8:34 pm

A hockey game! Funny….Bookman would have like that.

Kamchak

January 7th, 2011
8:36 pm

I was on a blog and a Shari Lewis sock-puppet show broke out.

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
8:37 pm

Paddy…if it is a requirement in private insurance policies…taxpayer dollars are involved how?

If you agree with concept but not the mechanism of delivery then that is a different discussion.

Paddy O

January 7th, 2011
8:38 pm

kevinbgoode is one odd cookie, seemingly completely disconnected from capitalism & Wall Street. Remarkable for a human being having been born in America.

Get Real

January 7th, 2011
8:38 pm

Lamb Chop….my favorite..

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
8:39 pm

Get Real

January 7th, 2011
8:40 pm

Paddy O

Like I said regarding kevinbgoode…right through the windshield…. Serious Drain Bramage

Paddy O

January 7th, 2011
8:41 pm

CT’s article stated it would be paid by medicare to Dr’s. Her premise, the wise contemplation of your future demise can not genuinely be argued with. Whether or not the government should pay, or mandate it be done citizens to other citizens, is quite another. I would urge the AMA to include it for all patients over 40 – you’ve been to the Dr’s office when they “update your file” – they could include this info there on one of the forms they make you fill out every 60 days or so.

Paddy O

January 7th, 2011
8:43 pm

kevin is always miffed, like to play devils advocate (appearing to be serious, though); angry about the society he lives in. Fairly sad, really. But if your life long purpose is to diverge as far as possible from the main stream, bumping into omnipresent reality causes some serious aggravation resulting in chronic miffedness.

Get Real

January 7th, 2011
8:46 pm

Paddy…that pretty much sums it up…

Kamchak

January 7th, 2011
8:47 pm

I thought it was more Senor Wences

Nope.

Too girlie.

Paddy O

January 7th, 2011
8:47 pm

The Terry Schiavo interference was a very sad day to conservative Republicans. It contributed to their demise in 06. However, the Hot Tub DeLay Repubs do not now exist in the House of Representatives. Rep Bachman has stated that she has identified 450 billion in cuts. If they are not social programs, she has done a great job. I could cut at least 1.5 trillion in 6 months, but you would hear a giant sucking sound of capital leaving the economy. 500 billion a year should be doable.

kevinbgoode

January 7th, 2011
8:50 pm

Oh Paddy. . .you are such a psychic.

And being a good conservative, I can’t imagine you provide such pronouncements without compensation.

Paddy O

January 7th, 2011
8:51 pm

video game makers once were paid to post “Losers Don’t Do Drugs” “William Sessions, FBI Director” on the screens of games not live. How is this a wise use of taxpayer funds?

Paddy O

January 7th, 2011
8:52 pm

kevin – just a decent talent for cause & affect. People are not so thoroughly unique or distinct as the American Psychological Society would have you believe – but, they are trying to increase their market.

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
8:54 pm

Paddy…you can make the same claim about a lot of media messaging but there are ways that they track these things and determine if they are effective. So the question is what evidence do you have that it was not?

Kamchak

January 7th, 2011
8:59 pm

So the question is what evidence do you have that it was not?

Keep, unless I miss my guess, it’s the same evidence that he has that a mortgage isn’t a secured loan.

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
9:02 pm

So many puppets, so useless of mind.

Kamchak

January 7th, 2011
9:07 pm

So many puppets, so useless of mind.

Lamb Chop….my favorite..

Keep up the good fight!

January 7th, 2011
9:11 pm

I am off to late dinner party…have a great night. Check under the bridge for more trolls and troll puppets……”its only a flesh wound.”

Paddy O

January 7th, 2011
9:41 pm

the effectiveness is ungaugable. the use of the funds, when you have a huge deficit, is what makes it profoundly foolish. What, 1% of the kids playing the games might be dissuaded from the drug use? Amazing the sheep who have such perfect faith in the government.

Kamchak

January 7th, 2011
9:53 pm

Lil' Barry Bailout

January 8th, 2011
6:40 am

ctucker: “Death panels” lie prevents dying with dignity
————————

You lie.

Americans are fully capable of making their own decisions about end of life without government help.

Idiot libbtards think nothing happens without government. Voila, entitlement mentality. No wonder working Americans are supporting so many worthless parasites and throwing hundreds of billions of dollars every year down the black hole of welfare.

gator24

January 8th, 2011
7:05 am

Some people just don’t get. Someone tell the Know Nothings it is voluntary and not the Federal Government telling you what to do. Damn, Damn, Damn, the Know Nothings will never learn anything if they keep watching Fox

TnGelding

January 8th, 2011
7:28 am

Death to the death panel terminology. You got this one right, Cynthia, death with dignity. And it will save 10s of billions of dollars annually. Let’s spend our medical care dollars wisely.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

January 8th, 2011
7:56 am

Buried in a Urinal story about the evil bankers raising checking account fees-

Recent federal regulation capped overdraft fees and certain levies on credit cards, and the Federal Reserve has proposed rules to limit what banks charge merchants to process debit purchases.

“The people who chronically overdraft will be saved those costs, but the revenue once [generated] by them will be paid by people who handle their accounts properly,” he said.-Urinal

I can remember when a bounced check was felony but now We The People carry the criminals around on our shoulders.

This is liberalism defined.

What a great incentive to be an adult and responsible, when the dummycrats have institutionalized sorry and lazy.

Be proud, America!

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

January 8th, 2011
8:06 am

What another succinct definition of liberalism, where the hopelessly ignorant and dull have been brainwashed to think that the federal government, a vast bureaucracy wholly committed to keeping itself bloated, cares about them, when they will be the first to be euthanized because they were too stupid to earn and save their own money.

Meanwhile the Kennedy’s and thee obozo’s and the Pelosi’s all have gold plated insurance policies bought with Other People’s Money, and boy, remember when Swimmer Kennedy got diagnosed with terminal cancer and steeped right up to the plate and refused care for himself, so that other, less fortunate people would receive it?

Yeah, neither do I hahahahahaha.

Suckers.

Vinny

January 8th, 2011
8:23 am

Oh Brother. Can’t you libs do ANYTHING without the help from government without your catterwalling about it?

PREPARE for once in you life by getting a living will and telling your significant other or family member about your wishes now. Taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for it, you frigging losers.

Chris Sanchez

January 8th, 2011
9:00 am

My oh my…is Ms. Cynthia Tucker advocating for personal responsibility? WOW! Who would have thought the day would come when Ms. Tucker speaks out about people actually be adults and making end of life decisions BEFORE the time comes to face those circumstances.

Now, how you tie that together with trying to give the government a role in is such a personal decision is beyond me! Your father was a wise man and clearly your mother shares that trait when it comes to the eventual end of her own life. Why in the world you would insist on inserting the government into one of the most personal of decision-making processes is puzzling.

Of course, if you want 100% of the people covered by government healthcare then the only way to control the exploding costs of such a program is to ration care. A large sum of money is spent trying to prolong life in those final days that could be saved so let’s have doctors “end-of-life counseling”. Sorry Ms. Tucker along with “hope” and “change”, you can keep the “end-of-life counseling” for yourself and your loved-ones. Most of the rest of us prefer the government simply BUT OUT!

The Misfit

January 8th, 2011
9:35 am

Cynthia please keep up the lies. I need a good laugh.

Nothing Is Free

January 8th, 2011
11:35 am

I just wonder why it’s always the healthy and living that want others to die with dignity.

All you libs that want to die with dignity, do it now while you are young and dignified.

There’s no dignity in death. You are alone and terrified. Go to a hospital and talk to people who are dying. See how concerned they are about whether you libs think they are being dignified.

You are talking about the state of others while they die. And then it is absolutely forbidden to talk about the policies and practices of past groups that said the same thing about other people’s deaths like the NAZIs.

I’m just glad that the light of truth is shinning on you, and what it is revealing is not a pretty sight.

james

January 8th, 2011
11:51 am

kevinbgoode- you may have missed the context of the comment dude- the libs say the constitution is too long while they whip out a 2200 page health care bill that has been nothing more than a paper weight on the desk- reading comprehension issues I suppose

Cynthia=HUSSY

January 8th, 2011
12:45 pm

How the hell are you Cynthia you old slut!

Union

January 8th, 2011
12:56 pm

funny.. the whole “death panel” issue.. it has nothing to do with end of life directives.. i have a living will with instructions on what to do should something happen to me. no big deal.. what seems to have been forgotten in all of this is at some point.. there will be a group of folks looking over someones medical records.. say a 45 year old.. trying to decide if that liver/kidney transplant is financially worth it for the “state”

45 too young you say? in the uk this is already occurring.. at some point the ages are going to come down and down.. given that this was never supposed to happen in the first place.

ms tucker.. you do a huge injustice with you snide and rhetorical bs.. some people may read what you write and may not realize that your level of ignorance is above and beyond the level that many could comprehend.

when medicare part a was passed in 1965, government experts projected costs to rise to $9 billion by 1990. total costs actually reached $67 billion. in 1987, medicaid added a special hospital subsidy to its coverage which was projected to cost $100 million. by 1992, costs stood at $11 billion per year.

so.. my question is.. are you ignorant or stupid when you believe the statistics and promises made by politicians that dont even know what it is they are passing in the first place?

magog

January 8th, 2011
1:03 pm

Republicans feign outrage over the Huck Finn edit, yet skip the original words of the Constitution to save face. Crass!