Bring ROTC back to Harvard and Yale

Starting with protests over the war in Vietnam and continuing through protests over the discriminatory “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy, many of the nation’s most exclusive colleges and universities barred ROTC from their campuses. (You may recall that some conservatives held that against Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan during her confirmation hearings; as the dean of Harvard’s law school, she had argued in favor of the policy.)
It’s time for Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Columbia and those other elite universities to bring back ROTC. Some college presidents — and military officials — have argued that too few students at those top universities would be interested in military careers to make opening an ROTC office cost-effective. From The NYT:

Eileen M. Lainez, a Defense Department spokeswoman, said Monday that it would be “premature to speculate” on plans for new R.O.T.C. units.

Diane H. Mazur, a law professor at the University of Florida and a former Air Force officer, said she doubted whether the military would reinstate the R.O.T.C. at Ivy League colleges because it is expensive to operate there, particularly for the relatively few number of students the services are likely to recruit.

“I think the military is much more persuaded by output, is much more persuaded by economic efficiency,” Ms. Mazur said.

Drew Faust, the president of Harvard, said over the weekend that she was looking forward to “pursuing discussions with military officials and others to achieve Harvard’s full and formal recognition of R.O.T.C..” . .
The Student Affairs Committee of the Columbia University Senate, a policy-making body of students, faculty members, administrators, alumni and others, said Monday that it had formed a Task Force on Military Engagement to consider whether the university should formally participate in the R.O.T.C.

Before making any decision, the committee said, it would conduct an opinion survey and hold hearings on the issue. The committee’s chairman, Tao Tan, said the process would be driven by students, rather than faculty members.

Several Columbia students said this week that while they would not object to the return of the R.O.T.C., they did not expect their classmates to show much interest in military careers.

“Most people come here to have a specific career,” said Alex Gaspard, 18, who hopes to go to law school. “Investment bankers or lawyers.”

Regardless, it is in the nation’s best interest to include among its military officers as many of the best-educated leaders as it can find. And some of those can be harvested from colleges such as Harvard and Yale.
There has been much concern, over recent decades, that the all-volunteer Armed Forces is increasingly different from the civilian nation that it serves — more religious, more conservative. (I’m not so sure that’s true, given the Pentagon’s survey on “Don’t Ask,” which showed that most troops were quite comfortable with having gays and lesbians serve openly.) One of the ways to ameliorate that trend is to be sure that the officer corps is recruited broadly, including recruitment from the elite universities.
— by Cynthia Tucker

360 comments Add your comment

paleo-neo-Carlinist a/k/a Joe the Plutocrat

December 22nd, 2010
12:23 pm

just kidding, but what’s the new one? “the few, the proud, The Marines”? what does the Bible (Leviticus, I think?) say about “pride” (it comes before the fall, I believe). and seems to me the word “pride” is used by the gay community as well? sounds like a common denominator (not that there’s anything wrong with it). and do the Marines even need a “slogan”?

Scout

December 22nd, 2010
12:23 pm

Well, since none of you libs. will answer/debate my 10:58 or 12:09, I’m outta here to do some shopping. I’ll leave you with this:

“There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.”

General William Thornson, United States Army

gooble gobble

December 22nd, 2010
12:24 pm

Right there with you on this one sister !

DannyX

December 22nd, 2010
12:26 pm

The Marine dress uniforms are about as gay as football uniform chaps.

Death of the Dollar

December 22nd, 2010
12:34 pm

Kingfisher Battle near Con Thien – In 1967, “Operation Kingfisher” was launched to destroy NVA forces just south of the DMZ. On Sept. 21st, the 2nd battalion, 4th Marines began a “search and destroy” mission and quickly encountered the entrenched 90th NVA regiment. The Marines lacked tank support because recent rains limited road mobility, while the dense vegetation and close proximity of the enemy restricted air and artillery support. After a day-long battle, the Marines had suffered at least 16 dead and 118 wounded while trying to break out of the enemy’s kill zone. The battalion withdrew at dusk, although flee may be a better term since 15 dead Marines were left behind. Details are sketchy, but the battalion didn’t return to collect its dead until three weeks later. Veterans of the battle state they lost 34 KIA that day.

markie mark

December 22nd, 2010
12:34 pm

DannyX, in an all volunteer military, I dont think it matters where the recruiting stations are….if someone wants to join, I think they will find them. Ivy League schools restarting ROTC is more of a politically correct move on their part to prove it was all about DADT, instead of just not wanting the military recruiting on their campuses, I believe….

Death of the Dollar

December 22nd, 2010
12:36 pm

Battle of Dai Do – A Marine Corps infantry battalion was mauled and forced to retreat after a disorganized attempt to dislodge a large North Vietnamese force near the DMZ. The Marines suffered 81 KIA and 397 wounded while killing hundreds of NVA. Accounts of this action are hidden within reports of operations in region of Dong Ha.

markie mark

December 22nd, 2010
12:38 pm

DOTD, I am not sure what the point is of related the defeats we suffered in Vietnam….was there a point I missed?

markie mark

December 22nd, 2010
12:39 pm

thats “relating”

Fred

December 22nd, 2010
12:43 pm

oh jeez markie, why did you ask? I think he was bored and would have stopped. Now you’ve given him new life………

Jay

December 22nd, 2010
12:43 pm

Amazing how suddenly its OK to have ROTC at these schools again. Money to tight to mention so any way back to the public trough is a good way.

Disgusting.

We havent needeed Harvard or Yale ROTC cadets since the Vietnam war so why do we need them now? As a matter of fact the Army has improved out of all reconition without them, why should we allow them back to be a drag on a crack elite fighting force?

Fred

December 22nd, 2010
12:47 pm

Operation Petticoat:

A submarine newly commissioned is damaged in the opening days of WW II. A captain, looking for a command insists he can get it to a dockyard and captain it. Going slowly to this site, they find a stranded group of Army nurses and must take them aboard. How bad can it get? Trying to get a primer coat on the sub, they have to mix white and red in order to have enough. When forced to flee the dock during an air attack, they find themselves with the world’s only Pink submarine, still with 5 women in the tight quarters of a submarine.

Death of the Dollar

December 22nd, 2010
12:47 pm

Fred – Starship Troopers was a juvenile novel (it was written for young teens), not a learned dissertation on citizenship. Try to separate fantasy sci fi from reality, you will do better in life. It was based on a militaristic society that existed in a fascist world, not exactly our free democracy.

Death of the Dollar

December 22nd, 2010
12:49 pm

Fred again: try to separate porn from reality, operation petticoat may play over and over in your mind, but reality is where you should be living.

Fred

December 22nd, 2010
12:52 pm

We have a republic yankee dollar, not a democracy.

Starship Trooper was first published in a magazine and won a Hugo award. It was applauded for it’s social and political views. It’s certainly more relevant than something written by that meth head Ayn Rand………….

DannyX

December 22nd, 2010
12:52 pm

Now lets see…….why don’t we see recruiters in the churches? We have God on our side right? He loves Shock and Awe. Wiping out hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi’s in an unprovoked war was God-like.

Get the recruiters into the areas where they can do some good. Churches would be a much better recruiting venue. God loves war now.

Fred

December 22nd, 2010
12:52 pm

The “reality” is yankee dollar, I’m laughing AT you, not with you.

Is that enough ‘reality” for you?

markie mark

December 22nd, 2010
12:53 pm

Fred, figured if he wanted to list massacres of our military, I would give him something closer to home….like the Fetterman massacre….right here on our very own land mass…..LOL

markie mark

December 22nd, 2010
12:54 pm

I kept waiting for a point…..and finally decided to ask if HE knew why he was doing it….(and I dont think he was gonna stop….sorry)

Keep up the good fight!

December 22nd, 2010
12:56 pm

Scout can as usual be counted on for …. why not much at all.

Why just insert the N word in most of his posts and put him back in the 1st half of last century and he would make every racist proud.

Be proud Scout…even my granny would wash your mouth out with soap.

Death of the Dollar

December 22nd, 2010
12:56 pm

Fred and Mark, sitting in tree…..

Fred

December 22nd, 2010
12:57 pm

You are probably rigtht marky, he seems to have a one track mind. (and not too bright at that, but keep that part quiet, he’s hunting wabbits I think).

markie mark

December 22nd, 2010
1:06 pm

I think he is reading from the BIG little book of defeats….ok, its boring enough here now, time to move on….CT, start a new one. You are the only one on the liberal beat this week, Jay has bailed on us….

JF McNamara

December 22nd, 2010
1:07 pm

Practically speaking, Rich people start wars, middle class people run wars, and poor people die in wars. Conceptually, I agree they should be there, but I’m not sure how many Richie Riches are going to up with an actual war going on. In non-wartime, yes. Now, no.

DannyX

December 22nd, 2010
1:11 pm

And another non point markie mark. It does matter in an all volunteer army who we are recruiting.

Bush W found out the hard way. He counted on his supporters to rally behind him. He talked of mushroom clouds and evil terrorism. When it came right down to W was abandoned by his own supporters, even with such a threat! Bush had to neglect Afghanistan and lost control of Iraq because our fighting forces were spread too thin. Bush’s own vocal, war hungry war supporters left him hanging. They were nothing more than keyboard warriors. They loved Shock and Awe in HD, not up close.

Yep our very own warriors decided they would blog about the war. Now the world knows how weak we are. Our warriors are mia. They have decided to blog and make money and go to school, and blog on all day about the evils of Muslims and terrorists.

God Bless America... and no one else

December 22nd, 2010
1:15 pm

DannyX, Robert Gates expressed “concern” just a few weeks ago that the military doesn’t represent a broad cross section of society anymore. The military is more Southern and Western, more conservative, and more religious than the nation it serves.

Fred

December 22nd, 2010
1:19 pm

JF McNamara

December 22nd, 2010
1:07 pm

Conceptually, I agree they should be there, but I’m not sure how many Richie Riches are going to up with an actual war going on.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

John Walton (Walmart) was an 18D (Special Forces Medic) during Viet Nam. He earned a silver star for his valor in combat. There are many others. Not everyone is a Paris Hilton………

Death of the Dollar

December 22nd, 2010
1:24 pm

“A former Delta Force commander, using the pen name “Dalton Fury”, who was present at Tora Bora has written that bin Laden escaped into Pakistan on or around December 16, 2001. Fury gives three reasons for why he believes bin Laden was able to escape: (1) the US mistakenly thought that Pakistan was effectively guarding the border area, (2) NATO allies refused to allow the use of air-dropped GATOR mines, which would have helped seal bin Laden and his forces inside the Tora Bora area, and (3) over-reliance on native Afghan military forces as the main force deployed against bin Laden and his fighters. Fury states that the Afghan forces would usually leave the battlefield in the evenings to break their Ramadan fasts, thereby allowing the al-Qaeda forces a chance to regroup, reposition, or escape.[6]
Fury, in an interview on 60 Minutes, stated that his Delta Force team and CIA Paramilitary Officers traveled to Tora Bora after the CIA pinpointed bin Laden’s location in that area. Fury’s team proposed an operation in which they would assault bin Laden’s suspected position from the rear, over the 14,000 foot high mountain separating Tora Bora from Pakistan. But, Fury’s proposal was denied by unidentified officials at higher headquarters for unknown reasons. Fury then proposed the dropping of GATOR mines in the passes leading away from Tora Bora, but this was also denied. Forced to approach the al-Qaeda forces from the front, at one point Fury reports that his team was within 2,000 meters of bin Laden’s suspected position, but withdrew because of uncertainty over the number of al-Qaeda fighters guarding bin Laden and a lack of support from allied Afghan troops.[7]
A short time later, the Afghan military forces declared a cease fire with al-Qaeda. When Fury’s team prepared to advance again on the al-Qaeda forces anyway, Afghan soldiers drew their weapons on the US soldiers. After 12 hours of negotiations, the Afghans stood down, but this had allowed bin Laden and his bodyguards time to relocate. Fury reports that bin Laden, in his radio calls which began in the afternoon of December 13, was clearly under duress, reportedly saying to his fighters, “the time is now, arm your women and children against the infidel”. Then, after a few hours of enduring massive and accurate aerial bombing, he broke radio silence again to say “Our prayers were not answered. Times are dire and bad. We did not get support from the apostate nations who call themselves our Muslim brothers. Things might have been different”. Fury describes that Bin Laden’s final words to his fighters on that night were “I’m sorry for getting you involved in this battle, if you can no longer resist, you may surrender with my blessing”.[8]
A short time later, what was believed to be bin Laden and his bodyguards were observed entering a cave. Fury’s team called down several bombing attacks on the cave, and believed that they had killed bin Laden. Six months later, US and Canadian forces returned and checked several caves in the area, finding remains of al-Qaeda fighters, but not of bin Laden. Fury believes that bin Laden was injured in the shoulder by shrapnel during the bombing of the cave, but was then hidden, given medical care, and assisted out of the area into Pakistan by sympathetic local Afghans.”

Nothing Is Free

December 22nd, 2010
1:30 pm

Coup d’etat in Washington, (AGAIN)

Our elected members of Congress had agreed on the problems that would have been caused by the federal regulation of the internet. A bill lost in committee 0 to 95 against such regulation.

At this time of the year, when no one is paying attention, the FCC just changed it’s policy to do exactly what the bill was trying to do and not one elected official had anything to say about it.

The Internet is now Federally Regulated and monitored against the vast majority of Americans and also against the vast majority of the people that we ALL elected, Democrats and Republicans.

SOMEBODY PLEASE PICK UP A HISTORY BOOK.

Where are the people that were outraged at the phone taps? How much privacy have we just given up, not by people calling Saudi Arabia, but by everyone that uses the internet?

N

December 22nd, 2010
1:32 pm

Not sure why my comment (~ 11:50 AM) got eaten by the moderation monster? It was certainly more relevant than any of the spam with which “Death of the Dollar” has been polluting the blog. Robert Heinlein a “juvenile” novelist? Oy.

Kamchak

December 22nd, 2010
1:36 pm

Robert Heinlein a “juvenile” novelist?

Yes. Many of the books that he wrote during the 50s were aimed at the teen/preteen set.

paleo-neo-Carlinist a/k/a Joe the Plutocrat

December 22nd, 2010
1:37 pm

Death of the Dollar, why would the folks who ignored the red flags pre-9/11(”unidentified officials at higher HQ”) demonostrate any greater attention to detail when it came to actually capturing/killing bin Laden? have you read “Where Men Win Glory: The Odyssey of Pat Tilman”? Krakauer pretty much echoes the “Dalton Fury” account of December 2001. were I not filled with the “head in the sand” euphoria and delusional mindset of the “holidays” I might opine about how a “dead/captured” bin Laden takes Iraq off the table (9/11-Iraq/war on terrorism link becomes moot). as such, what would the war-mongers, chickenhawks, and military industrial complex types have done with the $1.5 trillion (and counting) “earmarked” for Bush & Co’s cronies? but let’s be honest, Tora Bora is SOOOOOOOOOOO 2001. and for the purposes of this screed, is not “Rummy” a Princeton grad? Did not Bush matriculate from both Yale (undergrad) and Harvard (MBA)? why let some “shooter” on the ground, with the “highest of high value you targets” in his crosshairs actually execute and order and perform his sworn duty as a Delta Force operator?

DannyX

December 22nd, 2010
1:37 pm

We expect to spend over 700 billion on our war machine next year. Every time we spend another billion an angel gets its wings.

God loves war and hates the poor now. God wants poor people to sell all their belongings, give the proceeds to a rich man, then join the Marines.

paleo-neo-Carlinist a/k/a Joe the Plutocrat

December 22nd, 2010
1:41 pm

and let’s not forget; the “brainiac” military intelligence officer in the film version of Starship Toopers turned out to be a homo (Neal Patrick Harris). I never read the novel, but any opportunity to see Denise Richards coming out of the shower topless is OK by me!

Tom

December 22nd, 2010
1:43 pm

Changing the subject for a minute- Just saw a picture of President Obama, signing the DADT bill with 7 Congress members standing behind him(including Pelosi and Reid). It is my guess that none of the eight ever served in the military?? But they are the decision-makers on this important bill, how ironic! As a former veteran, now retired, absolutely NO way I would ever volunteer for today’s military!! Will be interesting to see how many leave the military first chance that they get??

DannyX

December 22nd, 2010
1:46 pm

“Will be interesting to see how many leave the military first chance that they get??”

Yes it will. How many “patriotic” soldiers are there that would abandoned their country because a gay man might see them in the shower?

Disgusting.

Keep up the good fight!

December 22nd, 2010
1:50 pm

Carlin…..I second the vote on Denise.

Tom, how ironic that civilians are in charge of the military as per the US Constitution. But dont worry, from everything I have seen about the brave gay men and women who have fought and died for this country in the service, I think the military without the homophobes will do as well as if not better than it has and with more integrity.

Kamchak

December 22nd, 2010
1:50 pm

Will be interesting to see how many leave the military first chance that they get??

Good riddance.

paleo-neo-Carlinist a/k/a Joe the Plutocrat

December 22nd, 2010
1:54 pm

Tom, you are either a veteran or active duty. I don’t know what “former veteran” means (unless you re-enlisted, which contradicts your second to last sentence). and in line with DannyX, if soldiers are uncomfortable serving with openly gay brothers in arms, THEY are a liability to the mission, and I say; “good riddance, don’t let the door hit you on the way out”. and finally, what’s the W-L record of the DADT-policy DoD (’94-present)? 0-3 (Kosovo, Aghanistan, Iraq are L’s in my book, despite what George “Top Gun” Bush told us from the flight deck of the Abraham Lincoln).

Lil' Barry Bailout

December 22nd, 2010
1:54 pm

Yes, it is time for America-hating professors and college administrators to reacquaint themselves with the people who protect their right and ability to act like spoiled little fascists.

Keep up the good fight!

December 22nd, 2010
1:54 pm

Kam…you may have missed another breakdown yesterday at 9:29

Tom

December 22nd, 2010
1:55 pm

DANNYX, KEEPupthegoodfight,KAMCHAK – Have you ever served in the Military?? Be honest with your answer? and I will promise to shut up!

Keep up the good fight!

December 22nd, 2010
1:57 pm

“America-hating professors”…. what, they dont wear lapel flag pins……..Yes, bring us more colleges that teach dinosaurs and men walked the earth together!

lupe

December 22nd, 2010
1:58 pm

jesus said, “love your neighbor as you love yourself” leave your prejudice in the barn.

slade

December 22nd, 2010
1:59 pm

conservatives are little eichmann’s

Keep up the good fight!

December 22nd, 2010
1:59 pm

Funny Tom….I dont remember anything in the US Constitution or in any law that gives a veteran a superior vote to any other citizens. Most of those who fight and risk their lives for citizens understand that they fight for freedom, not so that they can dictate to others.

God Bless America... and no one else

December 22nd, 2010
2:00 pm

“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” – Eric Arthur Blair

Good riddance, indeed.

Nothing Is Free

December 22nd, 2010
2:03 pm

Keep Up

- -Yes, bring us more colleges that teach dinosaurs and men walked the earth together!- -

Or that teach that by the 21st century, most of the Northern US will be coved by new glaciers brought about by global cooling.

paleo-neo-Carlinist a/k/a Joe the Plutocrat

December 22nd, 2010
2:03 pm

Tom, can’t speak for DANNYX, Keep up, or Kamchack, but I pay taxes. I am a citizen of the United States of America. I ‘defend’ and I am beholden to the same Constitution as all Americans (civilians and soliders). there is not one shred of evidence to support the “fear” that openly gay soliders will compromise anything. to the contrary, there have been numerous accounts of gay soliders, sailors, Marines an airmen performing with great honor and patriotism, and these accounts have come from fellow soliders, sailors, Marines and airmen. we all bleed the same blood.

Bob

December 22nd, 2010
2:05 pm

I think this is a most excellent idea. Georgia Tech has had an active Air Force ROTC (Newest), Naval ROTC (Since 1926), and Army ROTC (Since 1917) and they have served our country well and made our Institute proud. An Educated Officer Corps is beyond essential in today’s Military missions. I see no downside to the expansion of ROTC into Harvard and Yale, the very places that future Commanders in Chief will likely be educated.