‘Don’t ask’ consigned to history’s dust bin

Today, in an unusual Saturday session, the U.S. Senate abolished legally-sanctioned discrimination by the United States Armed Forces. Since the House has also voted to end it, the foolish “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy is assigned to the dustbin of history, along with the racially segregated Armed Forces, the belief that black men would be cowardly and unfit soldiers and the insistence that women could not fly combat aircraft.
The overwhelming vote, 65-31, came despite the statements of Marine Commandant James Amos, who insisted that a non-discriminatory Marine Corps will mean more dead U.S. Marines on the battlefield. That’s sheer and utter nonsense, more a testiment to his prejudices than to any evidence that gay Marines do not serve with courage and honor.
One of the more interesting and intellectually honest arguments that separates conservatives and liberals is over whether love of country must be unconditional. Many conservatives tend to argue that those of us who are constantly agitating to change the nation — to improve its policies, to perfect its justice, to broaden its opportunity — aren’t real patriots.
I could not disagree more. I love my country so much that I’ll do what I can to ensure that it lives up to its ideals. Today, the U.S. Senate brought it one step closer to those ideals.

370 comments Add your comment

M

December 18th, 2010
5:20 pm

Isaiah,

CITATIONS BADLY NEEDED

Isaiah

December 18th, 2010
5:21 pm

@Us vs Us

Then, please, tell me how you got here? How the earth came about? AND, when you die what will happen to you? Why are you on this earth right now?

Lil' Barry Bailout

December 18th, 2010
5:22 pm

I love my country so much that I’ll do what I can to ensure that it lives up to its ideals.
——————-

One of your country’s ideals is that people who aren’t willing to work don’t deserve to eat. Much less have a decent place to live, an automobile, a cell phone, etc. So much for “ensuring it lives up to its ideals’, eh, parasite-enabler?

midtownguy

December 18th, 2010
5:23 pm

Isaiah, I teach Sunday School at my church (Episcopal) my Walk with Jesus is one of the most important parts of my life. Thank you for asking.

Lil' Barry Bailout

December 18th, 2010
5:23 pm

Another of your country’s ideals is that a family with a Mom and a Dad is the best environment for raising children.

Oopsies!

resno2

December 18th, 2010
5:24 pm

CT, how do you intend to perfect our justice system when you, and many other left leaning liberals, don’t know what meaning of illegal is?

Steve

December 18th, 2010
5:24 pm

First to waterst at 5:05, just curious when you chose to be straight. Period! When was the exact date you CHOSE to be straight? And to you fsunoleinDC. What a croc. I grew up in the church just like you did. BUT, I have a problem that the only way to get to God is through Jesus. I have been to many different services covering many different religions. You can not tell me that God does not love them just as much as he loves Christians. They worship the same God. They believe in the same God, but you get to judge them because they don’t worship the way you do? What about the Dali Lama is his God not good enough for you. What about the people that have never been exposed to religion. Are they automatically going to Hell because they don’t know “your” God. I believe in a loving and accepting God. I don’t need anyone, especially you, to tell me that my beliefs are invalid,

DannyX

December 18th, 2010
5:24 pm

So typical. A lot of you Christians are great at throwing the Bible at gays in your own little groups but become frozen when confronted with the shallowness of your arguments in a more open forum.

Make sense of some of your nonsense. How does a gay person serving in the military possibly become more of an issue than a divorced person serving?

Jesus himself spoke out on divorce, nothing about homosexuality. From looking at your book it seems he would be purging your fantasy army of divorced people first. Common sense.

Divorce is a CHOICE!!!

History Professor

December 18th, 2010
5:30 pm

Any current or former service member that disagrees with this ruling is doing their service and country a dishonor. All military members from the lowliest private to the Commander and Chief have one job to “uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States”. The Constitution in its bedrock princples of freedom of association in the 1st Amendment and Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment protect people from this type of discrimination. The 15th President of the U.S., James Buchanan, with his live in lifetime companion William Rufus King referred to as “Aunt Fancy” was as openly gay as you could be in 1850. If it’s good enough for the Commander and Chief its good enough for anyone who serves. You can’t reconcile defending the constitutional principles of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness and be a bigot about someone’s sexual orientation, because if you do your a hypocrit and unfit to uphold your constitutional oath.

carlosgvv

December 18th, 2010
5:31 pm

The Commandant of the Marine Corps believes this will result in more dead Marines on the field. But of course Congress, most of whom have never served in the Military, and all of you who worship at the feet of political correctness, say he must be wrong. You are perfectly willing to risk the lives of our troops to fulfill somebody’s social experiment. This tells me all I need to know about you.

Isaiah

December 18th, 2010
5:32 pm

@DannyX and others. Here are your scriptures about Homosexuality

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 – “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

In Genesis 19 God destroys Sodom and Gomorrah due to the extensive amount of sin and debauchery going on in the city. Some add homosexuality in with the sins being committed. Others say that it was not just blanket homosexuality being condemned but homosexual rape, meaning it is different from homosexual behavior in loving relationships.

Leviticus 18:22 – “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.”

Leviticus 20:13 – “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”

Need I go on?

waterst

December 18th, 2010
5:33 pm

Homosexuality is a choice. Jesus told the woman at the well, “Go and sin no more”. A man having anal sex with another guy, is a sin. DUH!

You liberal spineless thugs make me want to vomit.

Isaiah

December 18th, 2010
5:33 pm

@DannyX
Before you say that that was God saying that. Please don’t insult us with lack of knowledge by saying that.

JESUS IS GOD!

Us vs Us

December 18th, 2010
5:35 pm

“@Us vs Us – Then, please, tell me how you got here?”

Best I can tell, my parents had a few drinks on New Years Eve in the 60’s and … do you need a diagram?

“How the earth came about?”

Big bang, maybe you’ve heard of it? What force or forces were behind it is anybody’s guess. To claim you know otherwise is the epitome of naivete.

“AND, when you die what will happen to you?”

Worm bait, just like you.

“Why are you on this earth right now?”

To protect myself and others from fundies like you.

Fred

December 18th, 2010
5:35 pm

M@ 5:11:

I don’t know. I’ve never “studied” the issue. I know that God condemned it strongly in the Old Testament. Heck, it’s STILL called “sodomy” 4000 years later. I was taught that it is wrong biblically (that’s not a word but I am having a brain poot and can’t remember the right one lol), but never gave the “issue” itself much thought. When I was a child I did theater and was around many gay people. They never tried to molest me so again I never gave it much thought. As I got older, I came to realize that very few choose to follow that path, (some do, just to be contrary lol, admit it, but they are a tiny tiny minority), people are born that way. You have no choice about what stimulates your sexuality. I mean I don’t look at another man’s hairy butt and find love. I couldn’t be “taught” to do so. A gay man looks at a naked woman the same way I look at a naked man, with a “so what” attitude. It’s what I call a “God Question.”

That means that one day when I die and stand before God I will ask him, “Wass’s up wit dat?”

The biblical teachings are clear on several points which conflict to my mind.

Homosexuality is “bad.”
God is “good.”
God doesn’t make mistakes.
God created homosexuals.

It’s beyond my comprehension. In the meantime, Jesus follow the Golden rule. He also said love one another as you would love yourself. THIS I try to practice. I can understand it.

Also as I read and understand the words of Jesus, he says ALL sins are equal, none more weighty than another. Lying is a sin and how many more people lie than are gay or lesbians? Which is worse? According to Jesus, neither, but personally I’d much rather hang out with a homosexual than a freaking liar. In fact, I don’t care if someone is a homosexual or not, but I DO care if someone is a liar.

I dunno, I guess I rambled on, but I hope this helps to clear things up a little. It’s as clear as mud to me lol.

T-Town

December 18th, 2010
5:35 pm

I have never had a problem with anyone wanting to serve in the military, but I will still fear for those who are different. I saw first hand what hate could do while serving in Vietnam. One would never know just where the round or the grenade came from, but all knew it came from friendly fire. Laws can be enacted to effect change in the military, but combat has a way to shield hate. I can only hope people will change, but know the more they change the more they stay the same.

Us vs Us

December 18th, 2010
5:36 pm

@waterst – No, it’s not. Smug self-important ignoramuses like you make me want to vomit.

Isaiah

December 18th, 2010
5:37 pm

@Us vs Us

Really???? You were created by a Big Bang! You don’t think much of yourself do you?

M

December 18th, 2010
5:37 pm

Isaiah,

Please read the rest of Leviticus and Deuteronomy and get back to me after you’ve fulfilled all those laws, rules, and requirements. If you’re still alive, that is.

M

December 18th, 2010
5:39 pm

Fred,

You are a better person than most in here.

greg

December 18th, 2010
5:41 pm

Served in the military for 10 years. It was maybe the most important and life changing 10 years of my life so far. Those 10 years also included the struggle with my sexuality. Anyone that thinks that there is not a very high number of gays in our military is not very smart. From my experience it may be even higher than in general society. Gay servicemen and women have been, and will always be a major part of our armed forces. I knew many people that were open within their units. I myself was open to those closest to me. It was never an issue, and it won’t be now.

Isaiah

December 18th, 2010
5:44 pm

M

I never said I was perfect. No one that walked the earth was except for JESUS! I sin everyday. We are born of a sinful nature. Sin is Sin. It’s all equal. Homesexuality is no greater than Divorce. Swearing God’s name in vein.

It’s been a pleasure speaking with you folks. Please have a safe and blessed Christmas!
I’ll leave you with John 14:6 “I’am the way, The Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

Us vs Us

December 18th, 2010
5:45 pm

“@Us vs Us

Really???? You were created by a Big Bang! You don’t think much of yourself do you?”

And you were borne of an inbred line that has a rib deficiency and an apple addiction? I’m guessing your think a great deal of yourself. Great fun at parties I’m sure.

Let me guess, you think the earth is 2000 years old, Jeebus rode a dinosaur and the Sun orbits the Earth am I right?

Lil' Barry Bailout

December 18th, 2010
5:46 pm

Homosexuals have always served in our military with no problem, as many here have pointed out. Overturning DADT was never about practical matters, it was about sticking a thumb in the eye of folks who believe in traditional American values and traditional family values. The extreme libbtard fringe, in other words.

DannyX

December 18th, 2010
5:46 pm

Total fail Isaiah. Total fail. I can copy and paste more things that Jesus said about divorce than you can paste using your obscure quotes from obscure figures and what they say about about gays.

“Make sense of some of your nonsense. How does a gay person serving in the military possibly become more of an issue than a divorced person serving?”

Come on! Why is our killing machine holy with divorced people but not gays???????

Divorce is a CHOICE!!!

Fred

December 18th, 2010
5:51 pm

M:

No I’m not, I’m scumbag. An intolerant scumbag at that. I can’t (and won’t) tolerate Baptists. They pervert my God and my religion. I am merely a mortal seeking truth, trying to live right, and hopefully at the end of my life the good I do will at least equal the evil.

But as a man who is proud of his military service (in and out of combat) i don’t see how who anyone sleeps with is an indicator of their patriotism or ability to serve the Country they love. Dannyx seems to think of me and others who served as murders in the killing machine. That’s OK I can live with that. I don’t really care what he thinks, I fought for his freedom as well as I fought for mine. Cynthia fights for freedom as well, even though I rarely like HER methods or ideas. I think she has a tendency towards racism. But her GOOD over shadows her BAD. I can live with that.

M

December 18th, 2010
5:52 pm

DannyX,

And a rather good choice at that.

History Professor

December 18th, 2010
5:52 pm

@Lil’Barry Bailout
“it was about sticking a thumb in the eye of folks who believe in traditional American values and traditional family values.”

Tell that to all the servicemen and women who have had to leave the military and lose their careers once they were outed to the wrong superior. No, this was about removing a law that is a complete contradiction to the constitutional ideals of liberty and freedom of choice that these same military are supposed to be defendiing. We all know gays have served honorably in every world military since the dawn of man, but when you endorse liberty for all, you must practice what you preach or the words and meaning are hollow and you loose any moral authority you had to begin with. Btw I’m a conservative.

Fred

December 18th, 2010
5:55 pm

greg: May you find peace. We almost always knew who the “fags” were in our unit as well. it didn’t matter though when it was time for the rubber to meet the road. We joked them and they joked us in the peaceful times. LOL The jokes about “them” having our backs………….. and the replies……….. funny stuff. But let someone from another unit try to rag on them and all hell broke loose. We were ALL brothers.

Deb

December 18th, 2010
5:59 pm

You cannot equate DADT and the DREAM farce. Repealing DADT is in regards to gay, LEGAL American service men and womean. The DREAM was a backdoor amnesty for a couple million illegal aliens? You gonna tell me that illegals deserve citizenship while legal citizens are discriminated against because of their orientation. Stupid, stupid argument. But I am glad the DREAM died and that gay Americans can now serve openly and proudly. God Bless America !!

Keep up the good fight!

December 18th, 2010
6:00 pm

Definitely some uglies out there today…..but finally so real movement to counter the righty wingnut immoral minority agenda.

Keep up the good fight!

December 18th, 2010
6:02 pm

DREAM is only delayed not dead….and it is not amnesty for many at all but it is amnesty for some who truly deserve it.

Keep up the good fight!

December 18th, 2010
6:04 pm

LBB…tell that to the fine gay men and women who served this country proudly and were discharged merely because they were gay…. Do you try to have some of the most illthought ignorant posts daily or does it just come naturally to you?

Fred

December 18th, 2010
6:08 pm

Deb, it’s obvious you know nothing about the DREAM act. Your ignorance of the subject is blatant.

Here’s your sign.

(I posted the video in an earlier post but apparently videos have to be moderated on Cynthia’s blogs lol)

Lost My Bible

December 18th, 2010
6:10 pm

I looked everywhere and couldn’t find my Bible, the original one written by G0D himself. All I keep finding is the translated copies.

Until I do you guys keep bickering back and forth.

If I haven’t found it by tomorrow I will ask my Catholic Light(Episcopal) priest what he thinks either that or his 2 GAY sons.

WWJD, probably think we all all pissed off at a non issue.

Dave2

December 18th, 2010
6:12 pm

CT if you love you country so much, have you ever worn its uniform? Seems to me, as one who served for almost 30 years, you could have truly demostrate that love in lieu of words. I actually do favor this bill, but it will not be easy to implement, too bad you can’t focus on that issue.

Fred

December 18th, 2010
6:15 pm

Dave2:

It is not necessary to serve in the military in order to love your Country. I know several pacifists who through either moral or religious beliefs wouldn’t be in the military, but love their Country every bit as much as you and I do.

That’s a weak argument.

TGT

December 18th, 2010
6:15 pm

Yeah! Why should the military concern itself with behavior that leads to:

-A twenty-five to thirty-year decrease in life expectancy

-Extremely promiscuous sexual activity

-20 times more frequent use of methamphetamine

-Primary and secondary syphilis that is more than 46 times that of other men and more than 71 times that of women

-HIV diagnoses that is more than 44 times that of other men and more than 40 times that of women

-Frequently fatal rectal cancer

-A much higher than usual incidence of suicide?

It sounds like a wonderful thing for our military men and women to be exposed to!

Steve

December 18th, 2010
6:17 pm

Wow- Unbelievable. True Christians on here today upholding the law of the Land! Remember Moses? Yeah you know the guy with those 10 things on his tablet. You know the one. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thy self. Not much of that on here today. What an ignorant, bigoted state we live in today. Very sad when the religious majority tries to judge everyone else when they don’t look at their own lives. Be careful when you look in the mirror. You might not like what you see.

False Evidence Appearing Real (FEAR)

December 18th, 2010
6:19 pm

“Today, the U.S. Senate brought it one step closer to those ideals.” Right you are Cynthia!

As a veteran as well as the daughter of a veteran, I’m grateful for the leadership of this President and those in Congress that prevailed in righting this very wrong-headed policy of DADT.

Now on to passing the DREAM act!!!! What do we lose by enabling access to citizenship to those that choose to put their life on the line while honorably serving in the defecse of this great nation? What are some of you people so afraid of? Hmmmm, I just wonder..

Lost My Bible

December 18th, 2010
6:19 pm

Aquagirl@4:51 pm

Uhhhh…USMC, if you’re saying what people will do, you’re either claiming to represent their point of view, or you’re psychic. Take your pick.

——————

He can’t be psychotic he took his thorazine today.

Oh psychic is what you said. Never mind about the thorazine. LOL

carlosgvv

December 18th, 2010
6:20 pm

Barry

It must be very clear to you now that those politicians who voted to repeal DADT could not possibly care less about traditional American and family values.

We Were Soldiers

December 18th, 2010
6:25 pm

“…despite the statements of Marine Commandant James Amos, who insisted that a non-discriminatory Marine Corps will mean more dead U.S. Marines on the battlefield. That’s sheer and utter nonsense, more a testiment to his prejudices…”

I find it interesting Ms. Tucker that a hack blog writer who never served a day in the military can critique the commandant of the Marine Corps with such brashness. General Amos and his men and women in uniform are all that stands between your ability to make smartass remarks like this and being skewered on the tip of an enemy bayonet.

Lee

December 18th, 2010
6:25 pm

“Today, in an unusual Saturday session, the U.S. Senate abolished legally-sanctioned discrimination…”

Oh wait, lil Cynthia wasn’t talking about AFFIRMATIVE ACTION or the government’s policies of buying from minority/women owned businesses – which blatently discriminate against white males. No, Cynthia’s all agiggle about the perverts who can now tell the entire squad who poked them in the rear the night before.

Give me a break.

schrutebeets

December 18th, 2010
6:26 pm

greg:
No one is questioning the presence of gays in the military. That’s not the point. Gays have never been prohibited from serving in the military. Unlike race and gender, “gay” is imperceptible.
The point is (or, rather, was): Should the military accept for service someone who is, essentially, demanding the right to “wear”/proclaim his/her homosexuality?
Does the military accept for service someone who demands the right to “wear”/proclaim his/her penchant for adultery?
The only way that one’s “gayness” becomes an issue is if that person chooses to make it an issue. The military I know well is about the team. It has no use for anyone (gay or straight) who has a need to make his/her service about him/her.
The repeal of DADT transforms “don’t ask, don’t tell” into “I didn’t ask, but you’re going to tell me anyway.”
DADT repeal imposes upon me a special duty to gay soldiers who have been empowered by the repeal to parade their sexuality.
I can express disgust to a soldier who brags about his extramarital affairs.
Am I permitted to express disgust to a solider who shows me a picture of his life partner and tells me the romantic tale of how they first met?
I see a lot of hate crime allegations and sensitivity trainings ahead.

Kamchak

December 18th, 2010
6:27 pm

…and all of you who worship at the feet of political correctness, say he must be wrong

You played the “political correctness” card.

This tells me all I need to know about you.

Wrong again

December 18th, 2010
6:37 pm

Please post the 8 republican names that voted for this piece of trash. It understandable among the perve democrats with no values, no morality and no integrity.

jay

December 18th, 2010
6:37 pm

After reading through the blogs it’s becoming apparent to me that this country is becoming more divided rapidly. This is not a condemnation just an observation, so please don’t anyone take it as offensive or divisive. Apparently we have hard core christians condemning homosexuality based on passages in the bible that condemn it, i.e., Sodom and Gomorrah. Their belief lies in that you will be judged for your sins. Then we have the alternate lifestyle that have found faith through churches that preach that Christ forgives all sins forever and non judging. So you have group “A” and group “B” fighting out their beliefs. How do you find a civility between the two? Government?

Tom Middleton

December 18th, 2010
6:41 pm

How about that, Cynthia. It seems we’ve taken one more step toward all of us living under the same principles of freedom, instead of just some of us.

Now as soon as we can get the racists to come out of their paranoid corners and start playing fair with the rest of us, we may actually BECOME a nation of, by, and for the people, instead of just pretending on the fourth of July!

Lil' Barry Bailout

December 18th, 2010
6:46 pm

I don’t have a problem with homosexuals in the military, just commenting on the motivation behind repeal of DADT. It’s not unlike the Democrats’ desire to raise taxes–it has nothing to do with what’s good policy, it’s all about sticking it to political enemies.