OMG! What if the wealthy have to pay more . . .

Oh, the horror!
Apparently, something akin to panic has set in among the richest Americans, who are contemplating the possibility (although it seems increasingly remote) that they may be asked to make a small financial sacrifice to restore fiscal health to the nation that has given them so much. That’s right: Many among the wealthy are anxiously eyeing news from Washington about a possible tax increase.
That proposal hasn’t been debated anywhere with more fear than on Wall Street, home to some of the nation’s wealthiest and greediest capitalists. From the NYT:

Worried that lawmakers will allow taxes to rise for the wealthiest Americans beginning next year, financial firms are discussing whether to move up their bonus payouts from next year to this month.

At stake is a portion of the hefty annual payouts that are a familiar part of the compensation culture on Wall Street, as well as a juicy target of popular anger. If Congress does not extend the Bush-era tax cuts for the highest income levels, a typical worker who earns a $1 million bonus would pay $40,000 to $50,000 more in taxes next year than this year, depending on base salary.

Goldman Sachs is one of the companies discussing how to time bonus season, according to three people who have been briefed on the discussions. Pay consultants who work with major Wall Street companies say that just about every other large bank has also considered such a move in recent weeks.

With tax politics in Washington unpredictable, bank executives have spent months sketching out several options for their bonus plans, including the possibility of an earlier payout. Lawmakers have been trading accusations across a partisan divide, but after this weekend, it appears likely that a compromise will extend the tax cuts for all income levels.

Even so, the banks’ discussions about bonus timing underscore how focused the industry is on protecting every dollar of pay.

That’s rich. These are folks who manufacture nothing and whose collective scheming brought the nation — indeed, the world — to the brink of financial collapse. Yet, they have absolutely no sense of responsibility to the overall good.

And just how bad would it be if tax breaks for the filthy rich were allowed to expire? They’d still be paying less in taxes than they did under the Clinton administration, when the economy was healthy.

My, my, my. It helps you understand why the term “robber barons” had such meaning during the 19th century.

421 comments Add your comment

AngryRedMarsWoman

December 6th, 2010
11:50 am

“The truth is individuals who make more than 200,000 will be taxed more, as well as families making more than 250,000.”

And that is the rub too. My BF makes considerably less money than I do…if we marry, we would collectively see an increase of $4k per annum in taxes, and that under the current rates. Why should we pay less by staying single? Why should the higher taxes not apply to two people living together who each make $150k, but apply to them if they get married? This is but one of the insanities of our current tax system…we need to simplify….get rid of all deductions except for other taxes paid and create additional tax brackets.

Tommy Maddox

December 6th, 2010
11:51 am

This all reminds me of a mutated version of an evening conversation in old Forsyth County:

“Look – a RICH guy!”

“Well don’t just stand there – get him!”

Keep up the good fight!

December 6th, 2010
11:51 am

Georgian…why should my tax dollars go to support someone who gets a lower capital gains rate for their salary? Or who gets a tax holiday or credit for their investments? Or who moves jobs overseas with my tax money? Or who defrauds the public with bogus accounting and costs us millions to investigate? Or who violates the law to make more money? Tell the rich to stop taking my tax dollars to increase their personal wealth.

Chuck

December 6th, 2010
11:51 am

That is the problem, the democrats want their supporters believe that it is the wealthy that are the problem and the republicans want their supporters to believe it is the poor that are the problem. They are just trying to distracted us from the absolute lack of REAL leadership coming from BOTH parties.

Fletch

December 6th, 2010
11:51 am

Georgian,

Not really. I was talking about what he brings home. The operating costs for running the business are seperate. As I said, it’s all about the allocation of assets. Even though we have different ways of doing business, neither one of us is hurting financially. He won’t see an increase in his taxes and I will. But again, it doesn’t bother me.

Lil' Barry Bailout

December 6th, 2010
11:54 am

Keep up the good fight!: why should my tax dollars go to support someone who gets a lower capital gains rate for their salary?
——————–

It doesn’t. People who live off their capital gains are generally productive and smart enough to provide for themselves. Go ahead and provide an example of your claim.

Didn’t think so.

MC

December 6th, 2010
11:55 am

Hey folks! Have no fear. Extend those tax cuts, extend unemployment compensation and over time all those tax cuts will create all those jobs and solve our unemployment problems now won’t they? Just like they did over the last 10 years. LMAO! ROFL!

George P. Burdell

December 6th, 2010
11:57 am

Fletch,

Your friend with the business is either paying the corporate tax rate on the business or doing some completely illegal if it is an S corp, LLC etc. You simply cannot make over a million dollars a year and only pay taxes on $10,000.

Keep up the good fight!

December 6th, 2010
11:58 am

LBB…are you really so clueless not to know that the salaries paid to most hedge fund managers have a loophole that means that their salaries are only taxed at the capital gains rate.

Yes I think you are!

sean smith

December 6th, 2010
12:00 pm

Germany has an unemployment rate of 2-4%, or what they consider FULL employment. Everyone who wants a job has one. The top personal tax rate is around 45% and their corporate rate is just under 30%. I guess the German rich folks aren’t as selfish as America robber barons and realize you cant have a healthy economy when the majority of the wealth is in the hands of a few selfish gready folks at the top.

Georgian

December 6th, 2010
12:01 pm

Keep,

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Thats all youre really saying.

Lil' Barry Bailout

December 6th, 2010
12:01 pm

Keep up, I’m well aware of that, but you claimed you were somehow supporting these hedge fund managers. Your comment is uninformed, laughable, and demi-tarded.

Chuck

December 6th, 2010
12:04 pm

Reading the comments on this board proves to me that what the so called leaders in Washington have this situation figured out. They have everyone taking sides and fighting over the wrong issues. It will not be many more years before the entire years budget will have to go to pay the interest on national debt. We are headed for a massive economic collapse and people are fighting over small percentage tax increases/decreases and who is rich and who is not. Like sheep to the slaughter.

Keep up the good fight!

December 6th, 2010
12:06 pm

LBB, if they are getting a lower tax rate than I am, I am supporting them. Otherwise you acknowledge that some people should pay more, so we can then stop the whining about some people paying more.

Georgian

December 6th, 2010
12:08 pm

Keep,

You keep on dreaming that you’re supporting them and we’ll wake you in a few hundred years.

Lil' Barry Bailout

December 6th, 2010
12:09 pm

Nonsense. You think you pay more in taxes than hedge fund managers? You’re a joke. They’re paying their “fair share” plus most of yours.

Fletch

December 6th, 2010
12:11 pm

George,

You’re right. However, you can filter a large number of personal expenses through the business. Beleive me, I’ve had numerous discussions with him in regard to the risk, especially since there has been a call for increased regulation. Unfortunately, we have to agree to disagree.

In relation to my argument, I have said earlier that I’m all for low taxes, I think their great. I’m able to take advantage of a lot of tax breaks that the average Joe probably doesn’t even know exsits. I’ve done very well over the last 10 years under the Bush Administration. However, because I’ve been fortunate, and I do profit from a number of the legal tax loop holes, I don’t really have an issue in seeing an increase in my Federal tax rate. If that’s the price for my success, then so be it.

Keep up the good fight!

December 6th, 2010
12:12 pm

Barry…keep up your ignorance…but if I earn $250,000 and pay up to 35% and they pay 15% on the same $250,000 then I have paid more. But you can play games all you want. The hypocrisy is showing and you and Georiga both know you are out of touch with most Americans on this stupidity

Georgian

December 6th, 2010
12:13 pm

Fletch,

Whats the name of your business?

Georgian

December 6th, 2010
12:15 pm

Keep,

We are out of touch with most Americans? I believe the majority favor lower taxes for all Americans.

Fletch

December 6th, 2010
12:16 pm

Which one? in California and Nevada our companies are held under Black Knight Investments. In Montana our companies are held under Compendium Investments and in Georia our companies are held under Brownstone Securities. Which one did you want me to elaborate on?

Lil' Barry Bailout

December 6th, 2010
12:16 pm

That’s a lot of ifs, Keep.

Truth be told, cap gains should be taxed at 0%. It’s ignorant and counter-productive to tax them at any rate higher than that.

Fletch

December 6th, 2010
12:17 pm

Lil,

Capitol gains are taxed at 0% through the establishment of a Unitrust.

Lil' Barry Bailout

December 6th, 2010
12:21 pm

Too bad we don’t all keep our investments in a Unitrust. Our economy would be much better off!

Fletch

December 6th, 2010
12:22 pm

Lil,

LOL if everyone did that, there wouldn’t be any tax revenue.

Georgian

December 6th, 2010
12:23 pm

Fletch,

So the name of your companies are?

Keep up the good fight!

December 6th, 2010
12:23 pm

gator24

December 6th, 2010
12:24 pm

What sad is that average Americans who aren’t wealthy believe tax cuts create jobs and they to maybe one day wealthy too and have to pay the same tax rate also. George Bush Sr called it Voodoo economics over twenty years ago. There has been no evidence these tax cuts for the wealthy help economy nor help create jobs. Its just greed, When you are a person like John McCain who didn’t know how many houses he owned, people still listen to Fox and believe what they here.

Fletch

December 6th, 2010
12:30 pm

Georgian,

I won’t give you the specific names, because I don’t know you from a hole in the wall. If you want to know what we do, then I’m happy to tell you:

Black Knight Investments – California and Nevada Private and Public Security for the greater Los Angeles area and for Metropolitan Las Vegas some FT security as well as contractors.

Compendium Investments – Montana – Beef production facilities in Opheim and Round Up, small processing facility in Scobey.

Brownstone Securities – Georgia – Liquor Distribution, Air Charter and Professional Employer Services.

Liberal Chicks are UGLY

December 6th, 2010
12:31 pm

Typical liberal logic…Sacrifices must be made! By others not me….
Why do liberals think they are more important than everybody else. Maybe if you put as much effort in to taking care of yourself as you do on bitch about what others owe you, you wouldn’t need other people’s money.

Those who want others to pay more taxes should pay more themselves first. Otherwise you’re a hypocrit.

Liberal Chicks are UGLY

December 6th, 2010
12:32 pm

Nothing says “ME” more than making others carry your burden for you.

Hootinanny Yum Yum

December 6th, 2010
12:33 pm

“Filthy Rich”…… BWAAAAAHHHH…….

Liberal Chicks are UGLY

December 6th, 2010
12:36 pm

Rich people are such dicks! This guy the other day would not give me his Ferarri! Waht a jerk….I was willing to trade him my car, he could have gotten around.

Lil' Barry Bailout

December 6th, 2010
12:40 pm

Fletch: LOL if everyone did that, there wouldn’t be any tax revenue.
—————————

What about the chumps who pay income tax? Can we keep that in a Unitrust too?

Georgian

December 6th, 2010
12:41 pm

Fletch,

Oh I see. I understand. Not that telling me your business name would reveal anything, but ok.

Fletch

December 6th, 2010
12:43 pm

Lil,

LOL, Probably not. A Unitrust is simply a diversified portfolio that allows you to draw annual income without paying the cap gains tax. It’s only one of a number of tax shelters. However, income tax is still required as it funds our entire government. Without one, you couldn’t have the other.

George P. Burdell

December 6th, 2010
12:43 pm

Fletch,

I figured that was probably the case and I wasn’t really trying to argue a point one way or the other. A lot of what you are describing is how ineffective the tax code is in general which is another topic for another day. While I think we disagree on taxes in general, it is nice to have someone that puts together rational coherent points instead of the usual nonsense put forth on these blogs.

Fletch

December 6th, 2010
12:47 pm

Georgian,

Okay, I’ll throw you a bone – In California, the security comany falls under KKOL Seurity Services, In Montana, beef production falls under beef by demand, and in Georgia one of our companies is Air Atlanta.

Not sure why you need to know, but I’m happy to oblige. Now what about you, what’s the name of your business?

Mr Right

December 6th, 2010
12:47 pm

ByteMe

December 6th, 2010
11:48 am

@Mr. Right: Big yawn. I’m sure everything anyone says that you don’t agree with make them a “Lib” in your eyes. Poor you. I guess I shouldn’t feel bad for you, though.

Bigger yawn! Isn’t it the Libs that want to take raise taxes ? Shucks I’m disappointed you don’t feel bad for me!

Lil' Barry Bailout

December 6th, 2010
12:48 pm

No, I’m GLAD income can’t be sheltered like that. Somebody has to fund the government!

Fletch

December 6th, 2010
12:50 pm

George P.,

Thanks, I appreciate that. I’m by no means a “tax advocate” As a business owner, I’d be foolish not to take advantage of the tax code in it’s current form. However, it because I recieve that benefit that allows me the ability to prosper. so if an increase is in my future, I simply regard it as fair play.

Fletch

December 6th, 2010
12:52 pm

Lil,

I agree, unfortunately government is the necessary evil that everyone hates but yet still depends on in one form or another.

Fletch

December 6th, 2010
12:53 pm

Hey all, gotta get to work. Keep fighting the good fight!!

Georgian

December 6th, 2010
12:55 pm

Fletch,

Just wondering what “small” business you have, since the tax increase will not affect you. I was just curious.

And I am not a business owner.

andygrdzki

December 6th, 2010
12:57 pm

Okay, you many of you state that the rich should pay more in Taxes…. My question to you is, at what rate should they pay and how have you determined that rate?

I would realy like to know…….

Fletch

December 6th, 2010
12:57 pm

Georgian,

No problem. Actually the tax increase will affect me, as I stated earlier, I fall into the 2% category. However, I have a number of ways to shield my imcome so that I get to keep more of what I earn. Having said that,I’d still be on the hook for the Federal Taxes whatever they may be.

Georgian

December 6th, 2010
12:58 pm

Why are we even having to have this discussion?

Because of stimulus, bail outs, and over spending by the Democrat controlled government on assistance programs.

Some People are stupid

December 6th, 2010
1:02 pm

This is about the most civil conversation I have seen on this blog in a while.

Some People are stupid

December 6th, 2010
1:06 pm

Georgian-
Because of stimulus, bail outs, and over spending by the Democrat controlled government on assistance programs.

Kinda got to call you out on this.
Bailouts- Was bi partisan, with a Republican president who actually asked for it. So all the blame goes to the democrats because they were in charge. So are we just going to disregard that republicans voted for it too.
Stimulus- 1/3rd was tax cuts..so are you saying tax cuts are bad
1/3rd was infrastructure spending, and 1/3rd went to state government, who asked for it. So when states request help, is the government suppose to let them fail.

Overspending- Please enlighten us on what other things comprise overspending? Bush left a 1.2 trillion dollar deficit and I can’t think of one thing that was particularlly exceptional that was being spent(besides supplemental war cost which probably make up most of the deficit)

Libertarian

December 6th, 2010
1:15 pm

Wall Street, home to some of the nation’s wealthiest and greediest capitalists….AND OBAMA CONTRIBUTORS.