Do tea partiers care about the Fourth, Fifth and Sixth amendments?

Like many civil libertarians, I have been deeply disappointed in President Obama’s insistence on keeping many of the same disturbing, unconstitutional policies that President Bush employed during the so-called war on terror. Those policies include detaining citizens without any charge.

You’d have thought that tea-partiers would express outrage against those policies, since they advertise themselves as restorers of the constitution and advocates of individual liberties or “freedoms.” The Fourth, Firth and Sixth amendments are clear about the rights that citizens have to be free of imprisonment by the state.

In a case about to go to the U.S. Supreme Court, the Bush administration imprisoned a man, supposedly because he was a “material witness” holding valuable information about the commission of a crime. It wasn’t true and authorities never even interrogated him about any crime. From The NYT editorial page:

It can be hard to distinguish between the Bush administration and the Obama administration when it comes to detainee policy. A case the Supreme Court agreed last week to hear, Ashcroft v. al-Kidd, is one of those occasions.
It turns on a principle held sacrosanct since the country’s early days: the government cannot arrest you without evidence that you committed a crime. An exception is the material witness law, which allows the government to keep a witness from fleeing before testifying about an alleged crime by somebody else.

These principles were horribly twisted when John Ashcroft was President George W. Bush’s attorney general. The Justice Department held a former college football player in brutal conditions on the pretext that he was a material witness in a case in which he was never called to testify and which fell apart at trial.

The Bush administration’s behavior was disturbing, and so is the Obama administration’s forceful defense of this outrageous practice of using a statute intended for one purpose for something very different. Judge Milan Smith Jr. of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals called it “repugnant to the Constitution.”

The Justice Department arrested Abdullah al-Kidd, known as Lavoni Kidd when he was a star football player at the University of Idaho, at Dulles airport in March 2003 before he boarded a plane to Saudi Arabia, where he was going to work on his doctorate in Islamic studies. For over two weeks, he was treated like an enemy of the state — shackled, held in high-security cells lit 24 hours a day, and sometimes humiliated by strip searches. When Mr. Kidd was released, he was ordered to live with his wife and in-laws, restrict his travels and report to a probation officer. The restrictions lasted 15 months.

The government said Mr. Kidd was a material witness against Sami Omar Hussayen, who was tried for supporting an Islamic group that the government said “sought to recruit others to engage in acts of violence and terrorism.” A jury acquitted Mr. Hussayen on some charges and didn’t reach a verdict on others. Mr. Kidd was not called to testify. Nor was he ever charged with a crime.

Kidd has sued John Ashcroft, who was the attorney general at the time of his detention. Previously, courts have held that the attorney general would be immune from lawsuits. The Obama administration has supported that position. Where is the tea party?

330 comments Add your comment

ken R

October 25th, 2010
9:24 am

No hat trick Granny, Just Piffel

williebkind

October 25th, 2010
9:25 am

Well the Tea Party cares about the ammendmends just like most Americans. Some people think it should not apply to foreigners and the liberals would not either if they did not depend on their votes to stay in office. The constitution was written for the citizens of the United
States and not for the citizens of the world.

Nice Guy

October 25th, 2010
9:26 am

“Ah yes, the ol “the absence of something is proof positive that something existed” argument.”

Ol’ Kamchak. Care to add anything to the topic, or are you just going to sit back in the shadows and throw out snide remarks?

williebkind

October 25th, 2010
9:26 am

Kamchak

October 25th, 2010
9:22 am
Yea sort of like global warming.

Education

October 25th, 2010
9:26 am

Killing thousands of Kurds by gassing them might fit the description of WMD

Hobby

October 25th, 2010
9:29 am

Are Granny an CT the same person….I mean really….has anybody ever seen them in the same place at the same time?….Clark Kent

granny godzilla

October 25th, 2010
9:29 am

T Town

Correct.

Many Democrats believed the lies the Bush Administration was peddling.

The 23 Senators and 133 Housemembers with foresight should be applauded.

Where are any of the liberals?

October 25th, 2010
9:30 am

President Obama (we apparently know where he stands on issue), Eric Holder, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, etc. Could it be that they actually support the idea of shielding the AG from lawsuits so that they themselves don’t become subject to them? That would seem pretty logical.

granny godzilla

October 25th, 2010
9:30 am

hobby

is hobby and about 50% of the posters the same troll?

CYNT U MUST KEEP UR JOB

October 25th, 2010
9:30 am

WHEN THEY CAME AND GOT THE BLACKS,ARABS,GAYS,MUSLIMS,ASIANS,INDIANS,HISPANICS,HINDUS,ATHEIST,BUHDAIST,DEMOCRAP,INDEPENDENT,POOR,BLIND AND WHEN IT WAS TIME FOR THE TEA PARTY,THERE WAS NO ONE TO SAVE THEM!

Angry As Hell

October 25th, 2010
9:31 am

Jimmy62

Would these be the same chemical weapons we gave to Saddam in his war against Iran in the 1980s? And aren’t these the same chemical weapons used against his Kurdish people? You know…the ones Donald Rumsfeld gave Saddam when Rumsfeld was Secretary of Defense under Ronnie Reagan and George H.W. Bush?

Nice Guy

October 25th, 2010
9:31 am

What’s wrong Granny, don’t want to comment on my 9:13?

4 Change

October 25th, 2010
9:33 am

Ms. Tucker, if you want to know where we are check on Nov. 2nd. We will be at the polls voting and taking our country back. The country that your very arrogant president has refused to listen to when the majority speaks. You are very good for us tea partiers as we love to see you rag on us, when you and your kind are the ones that are so out of touch with what we want. You know a balanced budget, jobs, the right to pursue happiness, instead of the Dems and libs shoving their agenda down our throats with bigger government and higher taxes and a health care bill that will be a disaster. Oh yeah, and all you repubs we are watching you too, you know all of you that have been wined and dined by corporate America and have sold us out to corporate America. The dems are first on the list, but do not sit easy repubs you are not much better. So come to the polls next Tuesday Ms. Tucker and witness average Americans fed up with you and your kind and your party start to take OUR country back. If you do not like it why not move say to Africa, or maybe communist China, and take Odummy with you. He is far to far in over his head

John

October 25th, 2010
9:33 am

CT,

Today’s blog is horrible. What does any of it have to do with the Tea Party? Just the parting cheap shot in your last sentence. Oh, and the totally misleading headline.

T-Town

October 25th, 2010
9:34 am

“The 23 Senators and 133 Housemembers with foresight should be applauded.”

Of course if WMDs were found then would you still be applauding these members (and yes I know none was found, but what if)?

Nice Guy

October 25th, 2010
9:35 am

Granny – “The 23 Senators and 133 Housemembers with foresight should be applauded.”

It must be noted that most of the 23 Senators you are so proud of are Democrats. With names like Levin, Kennedy and Feingold, one may think that they were voting ‘No’ simply to vote against a Republican President. Oh, wait, only the Republicans can be the party of No….ok, sorry, almost forgot.

HDB

October 25th, 2010
9:38 am

williebkind October 25th, 2010
9:25 am
“Well the Tea Party cares about the ammendmends just like most Americans. Some people think it should not apply to foreigners and the liberals would not either if they did not depend on their votes to stay in office. The constitution was written for the citizens of the United
States and not for the citizens of the world.”

When foreigners are on AMERICAN SOIL…they are also afforded the SAME constitutional protections as American citizens!! They are NOT afforded the same RIGHTS!! There IS a difference!!

The problem with the Tea Party is that they are focused primarily on the 10th Amendment…and that would have been the basis being used to maintain segregation!! In certain cases, FEDERAL law must supercede state law to insure that ALL Americans have constitutional protection!! States’ rights would have denied minority-Americans complete constitutional protactions UNLESS intervention by the federal government had taken place!! That’s what too many don’t realize!!

williebkind

October 25th, 2010
9:39 am

Tea Party will replace the progressive liberal ideology. It the motivator to bring out those who care about American values and traditions. Soon the ACLU members and donators will be identified and pictured all over the internet with their socialist history.

quod erat demonstrandum

October 25th, 2010
9:39 am

Angry As Hell,

As a good leftie, you should know that chemical weapons are not legal under many UN treaties

Protocol for the Prohibition of the Use in War of Asphyxiating, Poisonous or other Gases, and of Bacteriological Methods of Warfare – 1925

Convention on the Prohibition of the Development, Production, Stockpiling and Use of Chemical Weapons and on their Destruction – 1968

.

AFret

October 25th, 2010
9:39 am

Thank goodness the New Times comes out earlier than the AJC. CT’s work is done with simple cut & paste!

granny godzilla

October 25th, 2010
9:41 am

Nice guy

your 9:13

kamchak handled that correctly.

your 9:35

so is the equal and opposite reaction true?

one may think that they were voting YES simply to vote FOR a Republican President?

williebkind

October 25th, 2010
9:41 am

“When foreigners are on AMERICAN SOIL…they are also afforded the SAME constitutional protections as American citizens!!”

Where is that written? Is that another law by a judge?

williebkind

October 25th, 2010
9:43 am

HDB:
We have resolved the constitutional rights of all Americans. You do not need to keep bringing up a done deal.

quod erat demonstrandum

October 25th, 2010
9:43 am

HDB,

If that was the case, then there would be no need for States Constitutions.

For example,

We have a Second Amendment, but the Georgia Constitution regulates how and where a firearm is carried.

Following your argument, the State has no right to do that. That would be great, it would allow greater freedom.

HDB

October 25th, 2010
9:44 am

4 Change October 25th, 2010
9:33 am
“We will be at the polls voting and taking our country back.”
Question: Back to WHERE??

“You know a balanced budget, jobs, the right to pursue happiness, instead of the Dems and libs shoving their agenda down our throats with bigger government and higher taxes and a health care bill that will be a disaster.” Excuse me…but the expanse of government was accomplished by REPUBLICANS – starting with Ronald Reagan, maintained by the Bushes!! Where was your level of outrage when the nation was BUSHwhacked?? The tax INCREASES are a Republican idiom!! Reagan increased taxes in the 80s….Bush increased taxes (read my lips….)….and the Republicans’ passing the “cuts” through reconciliation made a tax INCRERASE inevitable!! The only budget SURPLUS was accomplished in a DEMOCRATIC Administration!!

BTW….who is denying you the possibility of your pursuit of happiness?? Who has shoved an anti-American ideology down anyone’s throats??

Nice Guy

October 25th, 2010
9:46 am

“kamchak handled that correctly.”

I wasn’t responding to Kamchak (because he rarely posts a thought about a topic), I was responding to you and your “no WMD were found” battle cry.

“so is the equal and opposite reaction true?”

I would say, in this case, no. The vote was too overwhelming in favor of the invasion.

James

October 25th, 2010
9:47 am

The late Bloomberg News reporter Mark Pittman asked the U.S. Treasury in January 2009 to identify $301 billion of securities owned by Citigroup Inc. that the government had agreed to guarantee. He made the request on the grounds that taxpayers ought to know how their money was being used.

More than 20 months later, after saying at least five times that a response was imminent, Treasury officials responded with 560 pages of printed-out e-mails — none of which Pittman requested. They were so heavily redacted that most of what’s left are everyday messages

Real unemployment around 17%. Large bailouts produce double digit returns to the gov’t through PPIP yet we have the largest deficit in history. Yes indeed- if you are far right or far left you are in fact enabling fascism.

StJ

October 25th, 2010
9:47 am

“Where are the tea partiers?”

Coming soon to a polling place near you.

kimmer

October 25th, 2010
9:49 am

“Do tea partiers care about the Fourth, Fifth and Sixth amendments?”

Yes of course they do but for the moment the focus is on out of control government spending.

Dave

October 25th, 2010
9:50 am

In one week, the correction of America begins and it looks like it could be a bigger romp by the GOP than originally thought. Even the Dems are distancng themselves from Obama in the hopes that the appearance of “I don’t agree with Obama” my save their liberal behinds. Cynthia, how does it feel ranting a raving about how wonderful Obama and the liberal policies are, yet you may be the only one in the building that believes that? Obama could go Jim Jones and you would still sweep the sidewalk in front of him as he walked. The smoke and mirrors of tis administration has cleared. America wins again!

Union

October 25th, 2010
9:51 am

gg.. now i see what the issue is.. cbs reported it.. as given to it by wikileaks.. no wonder obama has you snowed..

HDB

October 25th, 2010
9:52 am

williebkind October 25th, 2010
9:41 am/9:43 am
“Where is that written? Is that another law by a judge?”

No..it’s not written…..but quite evident. Haven’t you noted when foreigners are charged with a crime in the US?? They are afforded the same constitutional protections (Miranda, 5th Amendment….habeas corpus…et.al…..)…but not the same constitutional RIGHTS!!

All Americans do NOT have the same constitutional rights; gay Americans do NOT have the right to marry in every state…..even though it is both constitutionally protected….and protected by foreign treaty!!

quod erat demonstrandum October 25th, 2010
9:43 am

I stated in CERTAIN cases….so the state does have its moments!! Note: certain crimes are adjudicated solely on the state level (murder, theft…) and the more egregious crime (violation of rights, federal statutes) are judged on the federal level. In certain cases, they may overlap…….

granny godzilla

October 25th, 2010
9:52 am

yes, nice guy I know you were responding to me, but my response would have been the same as Kam’s.

no need to re-invent the wheel every time a silly, debunked, poorly
researched talking point pops up.

Angry As Hell

October 25th, 2010
9:53 am

qed

So, I guess the use of Agent Orange in Vietnam was excluded from those treatise because it was technically categorized as herbicide, ca. 1967 to 1971.

granny godzilla

October 25th, 2010
9:55 am

Shawny

October 25th, 2010
9:55 am

Here is what they are outraged about:
“Gov. Phil Bredesen, D-Tenn., said the economics of dropping coverage are “about to become very attractive to many employers, both public and private.”

So, you say over and over again that the healthcare debacle is going to reduce the deficit. Yet, there are no telling how many companies will drop coverage (because it is cheaper), allowing more citizens to go on the dole. The cost will be much higher than anticipated, mark my words, and it will not reduce the deficit.

And those ammendments apply to US citizens. Not enemy combatants.

T-Town

October 25th, 2010
9:57 am

All the rhetoric coming from both the right and the left is deafening. May I suggest to all an editorial written by Charley Reese entitled “545″ which was first written in 1985, republished in 1995, and again rehashed recently with name changes that fit the era. If you doubt it’s authenticity, check with Snopes.

Harry Callahan

October 25th, 2010
9:57 am

Cynthia…

piffle

Nice Guy

October 25th, 2010
9:59 am

“no need to re-invent the wheel every time a silly, debunked, poorly
researched talking point pops up.”

Precisely. Problem is, though, you can’t debunk the fact that Saddam moved the weapons prior to the inspection BECAUSE we continued to tell him we were coming to inspect…rather than show up unannounced.

That’s ok though, Granny, you keep living in your world of tangibles & absolutes, while turning a blind eye to the real world.

gator24

October 25th, 2010
9:59 am

There is a lot of confusion in this years electorate when comes to rights as an American. The Tea Party come about through Lobbyist and Billionaires who want to control the Political progress and future of America. The tax cuts and the deficit are supposedly more important than individual rights. The tax cuts which are suppose to create jobs,and haven’t over the past ten years. There is very little logic,only wedge issues cause people to be misguided such as gay marriage, cap and trade, health insurance and immigration reform. People are afraid of these issues just as they were years ago of Civil Rights and Voter Rights. I am not sure when there will be a protest concerning individual rights, however poor people and the middle class have supported the wealthy over their own self interests and will continue to do so in this election. Why isn’t their immigration reform and energy reform which only benefit limited number of people.

Dave

October 25th, 2010
10:00 am

Granny, it was in southern California….duh. There are small pockets here and there, but unless you prefer to close your eyes and put your hands over your ears, you can read and watch the political ads stating what I said. The best path for ANY GOP candidate to take is to put the Dem opponent in the same light as Obama. The Dems had their chance and all they did was light a fuse and blow that chance to smithereens. Good job!!!!

Jack

October 25th, 2010
10:03 am

What we have here is more fence-straddling; which becomes necessary when one is on the wrong side of the fence. Face-saving is important, y’know.

Tea Partier

October 25th, 2010
10:03 am

Hey Cynthia. Saw you on Meet the Press yesterday and heard your crass comment about Tea Partiers would end up killing each other. What a stupid thing to say. So typical of your liberal blather. And I love how you liberals like to pick and choose your amendments you like and choose to ignore, then throw it out there like a loaded stick of dynamite when your silly little minds come up with a lost cause issue. Get some meat on your issues girl if you want to fight the peoples fight.

Memphis11Gate

October 25th, 2010
10:03 am

People, you can’t reason with Tucker and her liberal friends. She is too far left wing and a product of the Black Liberation Power movement of the 1960’s which has failed the community and society. These radicals did not believe in MLK principles or the principles of the founding fathers because they had slaves.

She never writes about Obama’s abuse of his authority getting legislation passed and his appointing Zars, and backroom deals; his financial malfeasance in Chicago, no writing about his association with a terrorist named Bill Ayers that bombed a police station; no writings about his association with Frank Reigns whom after cooking the books at Fannie Mae left with a 19 million dollar bonus. She only writes about Republicans, people that are against the ACLU and other garbage to promote the Democratic propaganda machines.

Gm

October 25th, 2010
10:05 am

4 change: Taking your country back? Are you going to give it back to the Indians? This type of racist talk is what makes the tea party a bunch of racist bigots. We have seen your undeducated people running for office, they have no solutions just a lot of new lines.

Where was this new love for the counry when George Bush was destroying America? I can not waite to see you bigots on face on Nov 3, Liberals are comming out, the polls are tighten up we are not going back to the party that destroyed America.

Gerald West

October 25th, 2010
10:06 am

“Whom the Gods would destroy, they first make mad.”

The tea partiers are angry at the wrong things, so they cannot be placated. The movement is a manipulation of the poor and desperate by the greedy and privileged. The natural anger of those affected by the recession is being diverted from the cause and re-directed to another victim, the government.

The government did not cause the recession and cannot lift us out of it. The government can, and does, provide assistance to ease the pain of the jobless and the uninsured

The economic recession was caused by the systemic failure of American big business. Our economy will not recover until American commerce and industry is restructured to suppress monopolistic practices and restore free market, world-class competition.

granny godzilla

October 25th, 2010
10:07 am

Nice Guy

and unless you have a direct line to Iraq’s former dictator, you can only assume your scenario…..

Memphis11Gate

October 25th, 2010
10:07 am

Tucker what about the headline on AJC today?

WASHINGTON — The new health care law wasn’t supposed to undercut employer plans that have provided most people in the U.S. with coverage for generations.
FILE – In this Jan. 13, 2010, file photo Democratic Tennessee Gov. Phil Bredesen speaks in Nashville, Tenn. The new health care law wasn’t supposed to undercut employer plans that have provided most people in the U.S. with coverage for generations. But said Bredesen, “The economics of dropping existing coverage is about to become very attractive to many employers, both public and private.” (AP Photo/Mark Humphrey, File)

But last week a leading manufacturer told workers their costs will jump partly because of the law. Also, a Democratic governor laid out a scheme for employers to get out of health care by shifting workers into taxpayer-subsidized insurance markets that open in 2014.

————————————————————————————————————

It seems most of the country now knows the real Obama, he’s a F3, fraud, fake, fool. Democrats think Obama is in the words of Fred G. Sanford “you big DUMMY”.

granny godzilla

October 25th, 2010
10:14 am

Dave

Same kind of distancing in Columbus OH, Philadelphia PA, Cleveland OH,
Milwaukee WI, Chicago IL, LasVegas NV, Seattle WA……

Lotsa’ pockets….

Dave

October 25th, 2010
10:14 am

Memphis11gate, truer words have never been uttered. You can’t reason with the Democrats, Liberals and especially Cynthia. They are just blinded like sheep following their leader right off the cliff. A liberals worst nightmare is the truth and reality. They simply cherry pick their agenda and will not debate anything else. If you press them, they utter “Racist”, “Bigot”, “Greedy corporations” and class warfare. It’s best to just keep out mouths shut and let them dig their own grave. I saw a train of Uhaul trucks heading to DC and the cleaning out of the trash begins!