Sen. Webb says ‘white privilege’ is a myth

It’s pretty difficult to have a rational discussion about race, for the reasons my colleague Jay Bookman has outlined today. Quite frankly, his list of reasons is incomplete: Today’s political and civic climate includes a host of loud mouths who are not interested in a rational conversation about race. Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Andrew Breitbart come to mind.
Nevertheless, I sally forth in the hope that a few reasonable people might come across new information that gives them pause, makes them think, changes their minds. Today, Sen. Jim Webb (D-Va.) has a fascinating column in the Wall Street Journal that ought to provide fodder for reasonable conversation. UPDATE: A reader pointed to a link to the column, so here it is. )
The column, which has a rather provocative title, “Diversity and The Myth of White Privilege,” argues for the end of government-sanctioned affirmative action programs. But it’s not a simple-minded argument which pretends that discrimination, especially against blacks, never existed. Instead, Webb points out that broad-based diversity efforts boost “people of color” who never suffered historic discrimination in this country, while excluding whites who have suffered poverty.
I don’t agree with everything Webb says. He exaggerates in places, claiming, for example, that “WASP elites have fallen by the wayside,” a gross exaggeration which ignores the concentration of WASPs among the wealthy and powerful. (George H.W.Bush and sons come to mind.)
Nevertheless, Webb raises valid points:

I have dedicated my political career to bringing fairness to America’s economic system and to our work force, regardless of what people look like or where they may worship. Unfortunately, present-day diversity programs work against that notion, having expanded so far beyond their original purpose that they now favor anyone who does not happen to be white.

In an odd historical twist that all Americans see but few can understand, many programs allow recently arrived immigrants to move ahead of similarly situated whites whose families have been in the country for generations. These programs have damaged racial harmony. And the more they have grown, the less they have actually helped African-Americans, the intended beneficiaries of affirmative action as it was originally conceived.

How so?

Lyndon Johnson’s initial program for affirmative action was based on the 13th Amendment and on the Civil Rights Act of 1866, which authorized the federal government to take actions in order to eliminate “the badges of slavery.” Affirmative action was designed to recognize the uniquely difficult journey of African-Americans. This policy was justifiable and understandable, even to those who came from white cultural groups that had also suffered in socio-economic terms from the Civil War and its aftermath.

The injustices endured by black Americans at the hands of their own government have no parallel in our history, not only during the period of slavery but also in the Jim Crow era that followed. But the extrapolation of this logic to all “people of color”—especially since 1965, when new immigration laws dramatically altered the demographic makeup of the U.S.—moved affirmative action away from remediation and toward discrimination, this time against whites. It has also lessened the focus on assisting African-Americans, who despite a veneer of successful people at the very top still experience high rates of poverty, drug abuse, incarceration and family breakup.

Those who came to this country in recent decades from Asia, Latin America and Africa did not suffer discrimination from our government, and in fact have frequently been the beneficiaries of special government programs. The same cannot be said of many hard-working white Americans, including those whose roots in America go back more than 200 years.

I would choose a different remedy than Webb’s. I would argue that affirmative action programs still have a role to play, but they should be class-based and not color-based.

378 comments Add your comment

Richard

July 23rd, 2010
3:35 pm

education education education- no more cutesy “no child left behind” programs. This country will continue to thrive only with a culture formed on a basis of education and furthered by a desire and the ability to think and innovate.

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
3:38 pm

Richard, you thought ‘no child left behind” was cutesy? That seems an odd thing to call it. Ineffective, yes. Cutesy? I’m not getting that.

Ponder

July 23rd, 2010
3:42 pm

Okay Cynthia, I’ll bite — what are your “class-based” categories, how are they defined, and which class or classes are the recipients of affirmative action programs, and why?

RF

July 23rd, 2010
3:43 pm

Well, as if we hadn’t had enought with Breitbart, some jealous, attention seeking fool has to try to get his share of the news time. Did Webb grow up at the North Pole or something? White privilege has been documented throughout our history. Come on, even this guy has to be aware of the Jim Crow laws?? How much more white privilege can you get? Some people can’t seem to understand the concept because they’ve been the recipients of it. I don’t think it’s as bad as it was decades ago, and certainly AA and other programs have helped push us away from it. I’ve seen it too many times in my life not to know it exists- and I’m a white male.

Granny Godzilla

July 23rd, 2010
3:46 pm

” I would argue that affirmative action programs still have a role to play, but they should be class-based and not color-based.”

That makes good sense, but it will be called class warfare by those
who have no desire to help the less fortunate.

JacobLocke

July 23rd, 2010
3:46 pm

C’mon Cynthia – don’t leave me stuck in moderation … it’s satire. It’s fun. We’ll all have a laugh :D

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
3:47 pm

Cynthia:

Much of my career was spent giving minorities and women a leg up over white males. The pecking order was black females, then white females, then black males, then all other, then white males. I really resent that I was involved in that and wish now I hadn’t “caved” and participated.

Class discrimination is just as wrong as race discrimination.

As long as we keep going down this road we will never heal and in fact continue to Balkanize even more.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
3:48 pm

Granny:

Should a poor white basketball player make an NBA team over a rich black player who just happens to also be better at basketball ?

JacobLocke

July 23rd, 2010
3:51 pm

C’mon … Bookman let me get away with it ….

RF

July 23rd, 2010
3:55 pm

Scout- as painful as it was, didn’t you see at least some need for it there for a while? I’ll agree with you that it isn’t as needed now, but should be applied where there is an obvious discrepancy. I was in the corporate world during those early days and worked for a company that had no problem with their predjudice against women and minorities, especially in senior positions. But after the first round of it, even the executives at that company had to admit that they benefitted from the albeit forced diversification of their work force. Sales actually went up and profits rose because they had a better view of the market they were serving through the more diverse make up of their management team. It’s like exercising- the pain resulted in a healthier, stronger body.

Pogo

July 23rd, 2010
3:56 pm

Cindy, what the about the “Loud Mouths” in the NAACP and the Black Panthers? And your melodramatic thing about “American blacks suffering at the hands of their government” is hogwash too. Why don’t you try looking at what is happening in Africa or Haiti even to this day? You are full of crap. It is nothing compared to the suffering that is still going on the African continent. The strange thing is, that the blacks in certain African nations (and in Haiti) are responsible for large scale genocide and repression that has not been seen since Hitler. And nobody seems to care, not even you.

Peadawg

July 23rd, 2010
3:56 pm

“argues for the end of government-sanctioned affirmative action programs.”

AMEN!

Granny Godzilla

July 23rd, 2010
3:59 pm

Scout

Thanks for the favor you did me…..It was very gracious of you and I really appreciate it.

“Should a poor white basketball player make an NBA team over a rich black player who just happens to also be better at basketball?”

That is, I think, carrying the concept to an extreme.

I do think a bright young person of little or no means should get help with food, clothing, shelter and education.

Jon Swift

July 23rd, 2010
4:02 pm

RF, it’s to easy to resort to knee-jerk reactions. Dig deeper into Webb’s comments.

First of all, you should know that Webb is a born and bred southerner, so obviously he’s familiar with white privilege, Jim Crow, etc. Secondly, Cynthia pointed out Webb’s clear exaggerations, but to me the substance of his argumenet rings true. I support Affirmative Action but it has been twisted, cynically so in the last 10-15 years. In fact, do you realize that officially or not, even the term “Affirmative Action” has changed. Most employers and colleges have been calling it “Diversity” for several years. The name change was a deliberate attempt to remove the political sting out of the cultural battles over redress to Blacks for de facto and de jure racial discrimination.

As I say, I support Affirmative Action, but I’ve felt for a long time that it’s damaged. I think AA has become a ceiling or limit for black folks, as in “Oh, we got our 12% of blacks, so there’s no need to hire any more of them.” And as Webb pointed out, groups of people whom were never subject to Jim Crow are getting Affirmative Action benefits; latinos, Pakistani/Indians, Asian Pacific Islanders. As an example, look at some of Obama’s appoinments. I expected him to be the President of all Americans, yet he seems to have gone out of his way to promote persons of third-world minority ancestry and white women. That is not inherently wrong but let’s not call it Affirmative Action either.

Blue

July 23rd, 2010
4:09 pm

thanks for letting us know that only right wing talk show hosts are the people that cannot have a rational conversation about race. One of your worst traits is that you always imply or flat out say that only the ‘right’ does certain things. Cynthia, I have met many, many people on the ‘left’ who cannot have a rational conversation about race, and I have seen many people on TV who are “left” that cannot have a rational conversation about it (like the “Reverend” Jesse Jackson). Nice try though…race baiter.

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
4:12 pm

Blue, I take it that it wasn’t worth your time to read the entire post and comment on its substance. You have proved my point.

Blue

July 23rd, 2010
4:13 pm

GG; who determines who is “bright” and what is the cutoff to “little to no means”. And more importantly, who will determine and how will it be determined whether certain bright people of little means are in that position because of poor decisions or actions of their own volition? There are MANY of those people that ARE deserving of help, but there are many of them that, quite frankly, I should not be forced to help (with my taxes) because they have put themselves in those situations.

Blue

July 23rd, 2010
4:15 pm

you prove your point every day, CT…and no, I commented on your comments…not the post. I don’t have to read someone else’s words to know what you said leading up to it. I only reference your written words…and there was no gray area.

RF

July 23rd, 2010
4:19 pm

Jon- I agree that AA isn’t necessary anymore except in cases where there is a clear discrepancy. I also don’t think basing on socio-economic class would be any better. But here’s an experience that taught me a lesson about it.

I was a college student in the early 80’s, working two jobs to try to pay my way and scraping every dime up I could. My parents were divorced and yet we still couldn’t make the cut for much Pell grant money. As I walked in to pay for a quarter’s classes, a well-dressed African-American girl ended up in line in front of me- after seeing her get out of Mercedes at the curb. I couldn’t help but hear the woman tell her what she had from Pell in her account and asked her what she would like to do with the remainder. Remainder, I thought?? I got $50 from Pell, which would barely cover my Marta tokens for the semester, let alone tuition and books. I was steamed, of course, and went home fuming. My mom listened to me whine about why the girl got so much more and how I couldn’t help but think it was because of her race. My mother looked at me and told me that first, I didn’t know anything about the girl except what I heard in line. Second, she reminded me that just twenty years earlier, that girl wouldn’t have been allowed on the campus I was attending, much less been given any money to go there. She said it’s all about perspective, and I needed to be careful not to make it an issue of race because we had done too much of that for too long. She said, and I had to somewhat grudgingly agree at the time, that we had some fixing up to do before the playing field would be leveled. I ended up with my degree, even if it did take two years longer because of running out of money so many times. I think now, and have since that day, that we need to be careful to encourage diversity because there are still a lot of places where it doesn’t exist. One day, when we’re the minority, we’ll clamor for it too.

We have outlived the pressing need for AA, but white privilege, while not a legally stated process, was very real for a long time, and thank goodness we’ve done the hard work to get where we are.

Chris

July 23rd, 2010
4:20 pm

God forbid we ask our Senators to read through a couple thousand pages of a bill before voting on it, but didn’t the Bank Reform Bill that Jim Webb voted for contain certain quotas that would stand in staunch opposition of his view here?

And regarding Affirmative Action, don’t you think that if we keep telling young black kids that they need certain government programs in order to make anything of themselves, that they will start to believe it? We need to stop spreading the poisonous message of victimhood being peddled by the likes of Rev Al and Rev Jesse. Webb is right about this. I just wish he voted his conscious.

Priviledge

July 23rd, 2010
4:23 pm

I am priviledged to be called a ‘racist’ if i have critique on other cultures than my own.
I am priviledged to be called a ‘racist’ if i have critique on liberals.
I am priviledged to be called a ‘racist’ if i don’t support Obama’s current policies.
I am priviledged to be called a ‘racist’ if i do not support handouts and entitlement.
I am priviledged to be called a ‘racist’ if i say that illegal aliens have commited a crime and are not exempt from consequences.

A Lumpkin Resident

July 23rd, 2010
4:23 pm

White privilege IS a myth. I lived in Gwinnett county for many years, with several black and hispanic families in our neighborhood. There was no real difference in the quality of life or possessions or grades or anything else.

Here is where I can sympathize with blacks and where there IS a difference:

In that suburban home, I had FOUR grocery stores within 5 miles (closest 2 miles), one open all night. I had a THREE Home Depots within 8 miles. My point? When I lived in midtown and did not have a car, NOTHING was easy. I trip the grocery store was a 4 or 5 hour trek on Marta… to a store that charges more than the same items in the suburbs. Despite what urban planners would have you believe, inner city living in the blighted areas is not easy. And who lives there? Primarily poor blacks. Crime keeps things closed at night, and crime keeps stores from setting up shop. The corner store that charges 3x more for everything is often the only choice. Life is both harder and more expensive in urban poor neighborhoods. But Cynthia is correct: this has more to due with class (and crime) than it does with race. Looking at a poor inner city neighborhood in comparison to an integrated middle class suburban neighborhood demonstrates the point.

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
4:23 pm

RF, Your mom was an unusual and clear-headed thinker. But please let me tell you that something very similar happened to me! Since my parents were school teachers, I didn’t qualify for Pell grants either. But my parents weren’t rich, and I went to college without a car because they couldn’t afford to buy me one. But my (black) neighbor, an only child, went to college with a brand new car! I was POed! But the same moral applies: my parents would have readily reminded me that the girl’s parents barely scraped by, and that they put every penny they had into their daughter. There was no reason for me to be jealous.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
4:24 pm

Granny: You dodged ! You usually don’t do that. The question is should a poor white male who is a better qualified applicant be passed over for a lesser qualified black female from a well to do family because of things that happened that neither one of them had any part in one way or the other.

In my heart I know the answer …….. and I am ashamed of what I once participated in.

The Nerve

July 23rd, 2010
4:25 pm

And once again, without fail, what could perhaps be a meaninful discussion gets submarined in the first few sentences.

“Today’s political and civic climate includes a host of loud mouths who are not interested in a rational conversation about race. Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Andrew Breitbart come to mind.”

I don’t listen, read or watch anything these 3 do. I had never heard of BigGovernment.com or Breitbart until earlier this week. But surely….surely…..surely…….somewhere in your mind CT, there are some on the left who are just as guilty. Surely there is enough intellectual honesty in you to admit that. You want to start a discussion, but then immediately throw out some hate to push the buttons and alienate a certain group.

“Nevertheless, I sally forth in the hops that a few reasonable people might come across new information that gives them pause, makes them think, changes their minds.”

Start by looking in the mirror before you hop. I don’t think you’re there yet.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
4:25 pm

RF:

See my 4:24 above.

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
4:26 pm

Pogo, That particular bit of “melodrama” (some of us would call it ‘history’) came from Jim Webb, white guy.

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
4:27 pm

RF, read the post. As I said, I think Webb’s comments deserve some serious reflection.

JohnnyReb

July 23rd, 2010
4:32 pm

Speaking of “loud mouths,” John, I served in Viet Nam, Kerry has been found to be docking his new sailboat in Rhode Island to save/avoid a half million in taxes should it be docked in Massachusets. There is nothing illegal about doing so, just severly hypocritical. He has NO problem putting forth legislation to tax everyone (cap & tax among them), but does not want to pay taxes himself. And someone asks why I am an angry white man!

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
4:33 pm

RF:

From you post on Bookman’s site ………………..

A little racism is Rural Georgia at the WalMart? You’re kidding?

I’ll tell you what ………. I can send you to certain places in L.A., Chicago or Detroit where if you set foot you (if you are white) stand a good chance of not getting out alive ……… in broad daylight.

What would you call that ????

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
4:35 pm

BTW folks ……….

If you are “racist” you believe your race is genetically superior to another. Not many of those left out there.

However, you may not be “racist” but you could be as a white or black person “bigoted, biased, prejudiced or just plain picky” !

Let’s PLEASE ty to use the right word !!!

B Crawford

July 23rd, 2010
4:37 pm

Scout – The question is should a poor Black male who is a better qualified applicant be passed over for a lesser qualified White male from a well to do family because of things that happened that neither one of them had any part in one way or the other. Like being the same race as the person hiring them. If everything was based purely on merit the concept of networking wouldn’t be a factor in hiring period.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
4:39 pm

JohnnyReb :

1) I heard that today and it is so true but that’s the way liberals are ……….. the old double standard ……….. don’t do as I do – do as I say ……….. I know what’s best for you peasants.

2) Kind of like the news commentator Cark Rowan (now deceased) who was a scathing anti-2nd Amendment/gun control advocate who believed no one should own a gun. Then he shot some kid with an unregistered handgun who was just “hanging out” by the pool in his backyard.

3) Cynthia ………. didn’t you know Carl? Any comment ?

Oh, the tangled webs we weave …………………..

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
4:39 pm

Scout, One agree on something: Words matter!

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
4:40 pm

The Nerve, Did you bother to read the rest of the post?

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
4:41 pm

B. Crawford:

This is simple. The answer is both situation are morally wrong.

Everyone gets a fair chance and then you go with the best qualified candidate just like you pick the best NBA player.

This is NOT brain surgery …………. just political correctness gone amok !

B Crawford

July 23rd, 2010
4:41 pm

Scout – often the root cause of person being bigoted, biased or prejudiced is the belief that they are superior to another group aka as racism.

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
4:42 pm

Ok, Priviledge, You don’t bother to read the post. Next time, try reading before you rant

JohnnyReb

July 23rd, 2010
4:42 pm

I would choose a different remedy than Webb’s. I would argue that affirmative action programs still have a role to play, but they should be class-based and not color-based.

Ms Tucker, there you go again wanting the government to engineer a social outcome that would not occur if laws are applied equally regardless of race. Your postion is indicative of a true Obama supporter who wants to spread the wealth, but also shows why Dems will lose big in November and Obama will be a one-term regret.

If America is to truly move past the race issue, we cannot operate on Social Justice. It must be equal justice; equal for all.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
4:45 pm

B Crawford :

If that’s what it is then so be it. But you don’t know what is inside a person’s head so let’s try to use the right word.

RF

July 23rd, 2010
4:48 pm

Scout: I responded to you on Bookman’s page. Go there and read it- I’ll choose to respectfully disagree with you on some points, perhaps.

Cynthia- I think his words do deserve some serious reflection. I agree that it is high time ALL poor Americans get some help. What I wonder is this: Is there a lack of understanding among poor whites as to what is available to them based on income? I have a niece who went through a hard time while her husband was out of work, and she didn’t have a clue where to begin applying for income-based aid. I think because the poverty level is so much higher among other cultural groups that there is a greater likelihood they’ll know someone who can help them navigate the process. I also think there is a cultural stigma attached to government aid that labels it an “entitlement” for minorities, and I’ve seen in my own family a distaste for government aid because of that. My dad was livid that his granddaughter was applying for a “handout” when her kids were hungry and had no medical care, but it’s long been seen as a minority program based on race.

Cordel Faulk

July 23rd, 2010
4:49 pm

Ms. Tucker, the Webb column is NOT protected behind a pay wall.

It’s here for everyone to read on the WSJ’s free opinion site:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703724104575379630952309408.html

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
4:49 pm

B Crawford

July 23rd, 2010
4:49 pm

Johnny Reb – they already engineer social outcomes. Tax breaks for children, home owner ship , charitable donations, etc. We should pretend that everyone is equal and given equal opportunity. It sounds nice as a principal but the practice is totally different.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
4:51 pm

P.S. to B. Crawford:

For example …………………

It is my understanding that the Lady (can’t think of her name right now) who got fired from the Department of Agriculture this week called Republicans who disagreed with Obama’s health care policy “racists” (in another part of that tape).

She is calling me a racist ! In my opinion she should stay FIRED just for that ! That is not her function as a government employee when speaking to other groups.

I spent 34 years in a major federal law enforcement agency. If I had said something during a speech to the Lion’s Club to the effect that I thought all Democrats were racist over some policy ………….. I would have been disciplined for sure.

I have no sympathy for her once I heard the FULL story.

Cynthia …………… what say ye ????

Slick

July 23rd, 2010
4:52 pm

Would the comments deserve the same reflection had the been proffered by someone with a “R” next to his/her name?

JohnnyReb

July 23rd, 2010
4:52 pm

Ms Tucker, I posted a link to the article America’s Ruling Class–And the Perils of Revolution by Angelo Codevilla that went into moderation. It is not a racist article and I believe your readers would find it very interesting.

The Nerve

July 23rd, 2010
4:52 pm

Mrs. Tucker. I did. And my point is that what could have been a very good conversation was instantly polarizing to some because of that sentence. It wasn’t needed. It was just another jab that continues to divide. It just wasn’t necessary.

I learned earlier today on Bookmans’ blog that the term “uppity” and “arrogant” are new terms meant to disparage the African American. Never knew it. What if I wrote this column and changed that sentence to “Today’s political and civic climate includes a host of uppity and arrogant loud mouths who are not interested in a rational conversation about race. Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton and Cynthia McKinney come to mind.”

Would that not immediately cast my column in a negative light?

Mike K.

July 23rd, 2010
4:52 pm

I would argue that Cynthia Tucker rarely engages in rational discussions about race. That’s why she frequently shuts down comments for blogs about racial issues. I remember once she posted that there is no genetic basis for differentiating people by race (which is simply not true).

I wasn’t a giant fan of the Webb piece, but I think it’s interesting that finally even Democrats are taking notice of the widespread resentment among whites about racial issues. My wife and I discussed it as we drove to work, and we both agreed that many blacks have developed an anti-white mindset that justifies any and all acts of hostility towards whites. I’m shocked when I hear crazy arguments like “blacks can’t be racist” or that “nothing will ever make up for slavery”. The point being, when you see black teenagers with 2 kids before they’ve graduated high school and when they hear the broken English so common to many poorer blacks they start to thing that the black community is primarily at fault for its problems. When you combine that with the active racism and hostility that every white person who has ever lived in an urban area has experienced plus the obvious discrimination that whites face in obtaining an education, it’s easy to understand why whites start being much less sympathetic to the argument that blacks deserve special consideration.

I think there’s going to be a backlash against the PC mindset that forgives atrocious behavior and provides special consideration to certain groups in the name of racial justice. When even a Democrat writes a piece like this, you know the tide is starting to turn.

RF

July 23rd, 2010
4:54 pm

Cynthia- there’s a series of books by Ruby Payne about educating children from poverty that might explain some of my ideas. There is a fundamental difference in the way cultural groups look at poverty and government aid. Some of that comes from what we call “white privilege”. In the past, it was easier for whites to find a way out of poverty and they were more likely to see it as a changable situation. Melissa Harris Lacewell, who I often enjoy listening to when she is interviewed, has often mentioned the fundamentally different views of power and privilege that exist among cultural groups. I do think Webb is pointing out an important point, but to call “white privilege” a myth is reaching a bit far.

Steve

July 23rd, 2010
4:55 pm

“I would argue that affirmative action programs still have a role to play, but they should be class-based and not color-based.”

Who wouldn’t ?

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
4:57 pm

RF:

I hear you but I’m just telling you ……….. you would be dead.

Now “that’s” bigotry !

Stonethrower

July 23rd, 2010
4:58 pm

What a waste of ink. No meaningful dialogue will come from this piece of work you call journalism. My attitudes and opinions as well as those of the other readers and bloggers here were formed long ago and nothing said here or anywhere else will change that. As far as I’m concerned there is and always will be white privilege but has it or will it stop me from being and upstanding and productive citizen trying to achieve the best? No, and I don’t need affirmative action so whites can whisper about how unqualified we are for our positions. However take and look at the makeup of the boardrooms of the most wealthy and influential businesses, think tanks and the ultimate, the US Senate and what do you see? I’m not saying that those in charge are not qualified. But, it reminds me of the lyrics of a song, “hey little boy you can’t go where the others go cause you don’t look like they do. I said hey old man how can you stand to think that way, did you really think about it before you made the rules and he said son, that’s just the way it is!”

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
4:59 pm

Cynthia:

I left you two questions 4:39 and 4:51)

Would sure appreciate a response if you get time ……………………..

Some people are stupid

July 23rd, 2010
4:59 pm

I never thought I would see the day that I agree with Scout

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
5:00 pm

The Nerve, First off, there’s nothing new about whites’ use of “uppity” and “arrogant” to disparage blacks who “get out of their place.” Very old usage.
Secondly, Nerve, if you knew anything my history, you would know I’ve sharply criticized Jesse Jackson and Cynthia McKinney when they were still dominating the public spotlight. (For his part, you may remember that Al proudly took Bill O’Reilly to a Harlem restaurant a few years ago, so I think Al is trying to have rational conversations with people with whom he disagrees.) In fact, I proudly take credit for helping to run McKinney out of office. But when is the last time either one of them was a dominant public figure? By contrast, Rush, Glenn and Andrew are ruining the public discourse right now.

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
5:01 pm

Scout, Why don’t you listen to Shirley Sherrod for yourself? ARen’t you tired by now of having other people tell you what she said?

Libertarian

July 23rd, 2010
5:01 pm

Pat Buchanan makes a similar point regarding ivy league college admissions in an article he wrote earlier this week (Bias and Bigotry in academia). Basically, he says that these policies are mostly hurting poor and middle class whites because white elites still get in and hispanic and and black students get in with lesser credentials. Here is an excerpt:

There is yet another form of bigotry prevalent among our academic elite that is a throwback to the snobbery of the WASPs of yesterday. While Ivy League recruiters prefer working-class to middle-class black kids with the same test scores, the reverse is true with white kids.

White kids from poor families who score as well as white kids from wealthy families – think George W. Bush – not only get no break, they seem to be the most undesirable and unwanted of all students.

Though elite schools give points to applicants for extracurricular activities, especially for leadership roles and honors, writes Nieli, if you played a lead role in Future Farmers of America, the 4-H Clubs or junior ROTC, leave it off your resume or you may just be blackballed. “Excelling in these activities is ‘associated with 60 or 65 percent lower odds on admissions.’”

B Crawford

July 23rd, 2010
5:02 pm

Scout – are you arguing that double standards exist, no argument here. When the ratio gets even then we can talk about things being equal.

The Nerve

July 23rd, 2010
5:05 pm

CT….I appreciate the response but I think you are still missing the point. Throw any whatever names you want in the sentence about anybody.

In a dialogue such as this, it did not help to throw in a sentence that, to me, was meant to divide. It wasn’t needed. It could have been left out and promoted even more meaningful dialogue. My goodness, you even have Some People are Stupid agreeing with Scout so something magical must have been started.

And just for my own history, I grew up and went to a predominately black highschool. I had never heard those two terms described as derogatory towards African Americans until today. I always thought “uppity” meant stuck up and “arrogant” meant you thought you were better than everybody else. I know lots and lots and uppity arrogant white people.

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
5:06 pm

Mike K., You need to go and read some scientific journals from about ten years back, when scientists first started publishing their results about the human genome. Scientists said that race is a cultural construct, not a biological one. I’m sorry you don’t want to hear that.

RF

July 23rd, 2010
5:06 pm

@Scout- “I hear you but I’m just telling you ……….. you would be dead.” LOL As possibly anyone would who even looked like they had some money. Perhaps that’s the distinction- I bet you could walk right through if you were pushing a grocery cart and smelled like a wino. Hmmmm, maybe my fashion sense wasn’t so good when I was living in that part of town….but I digress.

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
5:09 pm

RF, I think you’re right about some of the programs. First, they’re unaware. Second, there’s a stigma. But it’s also true that, in some cases, those programs don’t exist. In the 90s, Michael Adams discovered that his freshman classes at UGA contained very few white males from rural areas, so he included them in the “affirmative action” program — which I thought was a fine idea. They tended to be working class kids without the advantages of many suburban white kids. But when Lee Parks’ group sued UGA over affirmative action, that program was thrown out.

The Nerve

July 23rd, 2010
5:09 pm

Gotta check out CT and go move this economy forward. Thank you for the responses. I did enjoy the article. Have a good weekend.

B Crawford

July 23rd, 2010
5:10 pm

Libertarian – I like the way he puts white elites into the same category as Black and Hispanics. The real comparison would be Black and Hispanics elites (might be pretty hard to find) to white elites. He simply lumped them together to make his point. Since we are taking away things that give points let remove the whole legacy thing. It doesn’t matter if your dad or granddad went to that school.

Wayne

July 23rd, 2010
5:13 pm

Although he was not as explicit as you about remedy, I read between the lines as Webb as also calling for class-based affirmative action (perhaps in individual programs rather than 1 “diversity program). Certainly, he didn’t oppose the concept.

I'm here from the government and I'm here to help

July 23rd, 2010
5:13 pm

Granny Godzilla,

I do think a bright young person of little or no means should get help with food, clothing, shelter and education.

You forgot free medical care and why not throw in a few virgins in a Mercedes!

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
5:14 pm

Wayne, No, he didn’t. And I think class-based “affirmative action” would be a good idea, esp for college admissions

barking frog

July 23rd, 2010
5:14 pm

Affirmative Action is used to ‘end the badges of slavery’ . What BS! Chris Rock said it best
onstage.” There’s not a white person in this audience that would trade places with me and
I’m Rich.” AA is used to give the white race the illusion that it’s doing the right thing and
benefits few black people. Obama said ‘Plug the damn hole.’ I say pay the damn reparations.

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
5:14 pm

You too, Nerve

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
5:15 pm

Some people are smart:

Thank you !!

Libertarian

July 23rd, 2010
5:16 pm

@ B Crawford, if you truly want to be “fair” why not remove your name and ethnicity from college apps?

Here’s another quote from the article (btw the whole article was based on a study conducted by Princeton University, it is an interesting read if you google it):

“To have the same chance of gaining admission as a black student with a SAT score of 1100, a Hispanic student otherwise equally matched in background characteristics would have to have 1230, a white student a 1410 and an Asian student a 1550.”

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
5:16 pm

Cynthia:

I’m disappointed you won’t answer my other questions but in response to yours ……….. I don’t have the 43 minute tape.

So, are you telling me she didn’t (as I have heard) call Republicans racist for fighting against Obama’s health care plan? Yes or No ?

Mike K.

July 23rd, 2010
5:18 pm

@ctucker,
Maybe some journal said that 10 years ago, but they don’t say that now. There’s obviously a genetic component to race – the notion that there’s a set of physical characteristics that we can identify visually that can’t be identified in the human genome is preposterous on its face.

Look at the link I posted to a 2006 article from The Independent. There is a genetic basis for race. From the bottom of the article,

“The scientists looked at people from three broad racial groups – African, Asian and European. Although there was an underlying similarity in terms of how common it was for genes to be copied, there were enough racial differences to assign every person bar one to their correct ethnic origin. This might help forensic scientists wishing to know more about the race of a suspect.”

I can’t paste links so I’ll do it with a space before and after www.

http:// www. independent.co.uk/news/science/genetic-breakthrough-that-reveals-the-differences-between-humans-425432.html

RantsRaven

July 23rd, 2010
5:18 pm

The full Webb article is here:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703724104575379630952309408.html

The phony argument that whites are being oppressed by affirmative action laws is a laughable as the misleading statistic about 5% of southern whites owning slaves in 1860, when statistics show that 90% of blacks in that year WERE slaves.

I'm here from the government and I'm here to help

July 23rd, 2010
5:20 pm

Reptile,

I got your “reparations” hanging. Want some?

Libertarian

July 23rd, 2010
5:22 pm

Honesty about race:

I think affirmative action was certainly needed in the 70’s, 80’s and possibly the 90’s but it is an outdated practice. Like so many other government programs, it goes too far and ends up creating an even bigger problem. Honestly I think women are probably still discriminated against more than black men. Women still consistently make less money than men-many studies have shown.

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
5:23 pm

RantsRaven, There is no contradiction there. Webb’s point is that the vast majority of slaves were owned by a very few very rich white people. I have no reason to doubt the stat.

barking frog

July 23rd, 2010
5:23 pm

ihftgaihth; i don’t qualify i’m not the descendant of a slave.

RF

July 23rd, 2010
5:24 pm

Cynthia- point well made! I had heard about the UGA program and had forgotten that. Considering how the wealthy were favored in tax codes, etc. over the last thirty years, I have to agree with you, as Shirley Sherrod pointed out in her unedited video, it’s about the poor vs. the rich now more than about race. That would shake up the powers-that-be to have to deal with that one!

One other point about white privilege. My mother grew up on rural farm in Alabama, poor as the dirt they farmed in her recollections. She didn’t even get to have a Christmas tree until she was grown because they couldn’t afford such a “luxury”. She spent several summers as an early teen hired out to a well-to-do white couple in town as a nurse to the ailing wife. The woman taught her about manners and etiquette and often told her she only need apply herself and she could rise above her situation in life. As mom pointed out, there were plenty of wealthy white people to provide the example for her to see that a better life was indeed out there. Up until what, the last couple of decades, there wasn’t a large enough middle or upper class among African-Americans for poor kids to see as examples. That has changed quite a bit, IMO, so perhaps what was once seen as white privilege is now wealthy privilege? I just proved your point, didn’t I? LOL

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
5:24 pm

RF:

LOL !

1) Let’s have a white man walk down MLK, midnight tonight, wearing a Confederate Battle Flag emblem on the back of his T-shirt and a $100 bill taped to his forehead. That is his Constitutional right ………….. let’s see if he encounters any bigotry. I say 99 out of a 100 white people wouldn’t make it to the end of the block.

2) Then, since you mentioned WalMart earlier, let’s let a black man, same time, walk in the most rural WalMart you can find wearing a “Black Power” T-Shirt and a $100 bill taped to his forhead…………….. also his Constitutional right. I say 99 out of a 100 do just fine.

Wayne

July 23rd, 2010
5:26 pm

Here’s how Kevin Drum summarized his read on the article:

Sen. Jim Webb (D–Va.) argues in the Wall Street Journal today — as he has before — that although we still owe a debt to African-Americans who have faced centuries of both private and state-sponsored discrimination, we should stop using ethnicity in general as the basis for affirmative action programs.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
5:26 pm

RF & Cynthia:

BTW ………. I know what poor is. My earliest memory is of my dad sitting in a wash tub (no inside plumbing except for the sink) on the back porch and me wondering why he was so black while he washed the coal dust off from his shift in the mines.

T-Town

July 23rd, 2010
5:26 pm

Race, Religion, and Politics. Items that can surely move the hearts, minds, souls, and brings out the bigots. That said, most have been very cordial today. Congrats, Ms. Tucker.

Wayne

July 23rd, 2010
5:26 pm

Broke in mid-comment – I guess it all depends on how one reads this sentence in his article:
Beyond our continuing obligation to assist those African-Americans still in need, government-directed diversity programs should end.

Libertarian

July 23rd, 2010
5:27 pm

@barking frog

So I guess only the direct descendants of a slave owner should pay them?

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
5:27 pm

Mike K, I read the piece in the Independent. It also says this:

They have found that each of us is more different genetically than we previously believed. Instead of being 99.9 per cent identical, it may turn out to be more like 99 per cent identical - (emphasis added) enough of a difference to explain many variations in human traits. Instead of having just two copies of every gene – one from each parent – we have some genes that are multiplied several times. Furthermore these “multiple copy numbers” differ from one person to another, which could explain human physical and even mental variation.

It also didn’t contradict what I said before.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
5:28 pm

B. Crawford:

While your so-called “ratio” supposedly gets even we are immorally discriminating against individuals ……. which is a clear violation of our Constitution.

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
5:29 pm

Oh, Mike K, the piece also said this:

Another implication of the finding is that we are more different to our closest living relative, the chimpanzee, than previously assumed from earlier studies. Instead of being 99 per cent similar, we are more likely to be about 96 per cent similar

I'm here from the government and I'm here to help

July 23rd, 2010
5:30 pm

Scout,

I wouldn’t take that bet in million years. You are correct. So what does that tell you. Simply that blacks are less tolerate than whites period. Of course that’s the whites fault.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
5:31 pm

Libertarian @ 5:27 :

You are trying to cause trouble ……….. the liberals won’t like you for that ……………. :o

P.S. Don’t leave out the black slave traders in Africa who actually caught the slaves which without their help none of this would have been possible.

RF

July 23rd, 2010
5:31 pm

Scout- if he’s got a $100 bill taped to his forehead, I’d jump him, regardless of what he’s wearing!! I’m facing 12 furlough days next year…a Benjamin here and there sure would help a lot. You get some volunteers together and I’ll play the part of the jumper…if I can get it from him, I keep it, right??

barking frog

July 23rd, 2010
5:32 pm

libertarian; slaveowners didn’t write the laws that allowed slavery and certainly didn’t
repeal them.

Mike K.

July 23rd, 2010
5:32 pm

@ctucker
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. You said “Scientists said that race is a cultural construct, not a biological one”. If that were correct then the scientists conducting this study would not have been able to correctly identify the race of 269 out of 270 individuals.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
5:33 pm

I’m here from the government and I’m here to help :

O.K. Which “whites” fault?

Rich, poor, liberal, conservative, those who ancestors fought for the Union, Northern bigots, Southern gentlemen, etc., etc., etc. ?

RF

July 23rd, 2010
5:34 pm

Scout- miner, huh? That’s a way of life I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. Perhaps the struggle is now more about the have-nots vs. the haves? Seems like it used to be easier to rise up into the middle class or above than it is now, just IMO.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
5:34 pm

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
5:35 pm

RF:

Miner then a preacher. I have been blessed in more ways than I can count.

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
5:36 pm

Mike K., Scientists are also able to identify individuals from their DNA, distinguishing all but identical twins. Fathers from sons, mothers from daughters, etc,. So?

Mike K.

July 23rd, 2010
5:36 pm

@ctucker
I’m just not sure why you think that the fact that the study concludes that individual humans (and humans and animals) are more different genetically than previously thought, means that there’s no genetic basis for race.

ctucker

July 23rd, 2010
5:37 pm

RF, I think you did prove my point

Mike K.

July 23rd, 2010
5:39 pm

@ctucker
So there’s a genetic basis to race. The reason that scientists can distinguish individuals by their genes is that there’s a genetic component to who we are. What this study shows is that, by looking at our genes, scientists can tell our race with pretty high certainty. They wouldn’t be able to do that if race were a social construct. That’s why your genes can tell a scientist whether you’re a man or a woman, but not whether you’re rich or poor, a doctor or a lawyer, etc.

barking frog

July 23rd, 2010
5:44 pm

Mike K;5;39;could they tell what race President Obama is? supposedly he is asian(whatever
that is)black and white. where would he be classed/

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
5:45 pm

Cynthia and Mike:

I can solve this …………. not sure exactly when but we are all from Adam & Eve …………….. :o

Not trying to start a Biblical debate ………. just sayin !

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
5:45 pm

barking frog:

Skunks are black and white.

barking frog

July 23rd, 2010
5:47 pm

Scout 5:45; not in the dark.

Mike K.

July 23rd, 2010
5:47 pm

@barking frog
I don’t think Obama is part Asian. I think you’re thinking of someone else.

I don’t know whether they could identify Obama’s race, or that he is bi-racial. Look – the only point I’m making is that Cynthia is denying that there is a biological component to race. That’s nuts.

RF

July 23rd, 2010
5:48 pm

Mike: does it matter if there is a genetic basis for it? Does that mean then that there’s a genetic reason not to be able to live together with some degree of harmony? Does that mean that one race is genetically better than another? Regardless of reasons, it is a sad fact that humans spend a lot of time justifying animosity towards each other based on race.

barking frog

July 23rd, 2010
5:51 pm

Mike K. 5:47; Oh yes, that’s right. the asian part was a social construct.

Mike K.

July 23rd, 2010
5:52 pm

@RF
Oh – I don’t think it matters the way you’re saying. My initial comment was that Cynthia blogged that most people can’t have a rational discussion about race. I responded that I often thought she approached the subject irrationally. As evidence, I brought up a statement she made on this blog about a month ago that there is no genetic basis for race. That’s obviously not true, but she’s sticking by her position. That’s the definition of irrationality.

Didn’t Cynthia write a piece last week about how people refuse to acknowledge facts that conflict with their understanding of reality?

Mary Elizabeth

July 23rd, 2010
5:52 pm

Mike K
Who cares about the race of the 269 or 270 people ? Look inside – not outside each person. Look at the spirit inside each person – into the unique soul of every separate human being blessed by God to be born to Earth. It is the spirit, or soul, of humankind that will heal this world – not insignificant exteriors which only divide, not unite people, if we think that narrow. Those exterior traits all fade in time anyway. Only the spirit remains. Look deeper inside others, and in yourself, and you will be personally rewarded in spirit, in turn.

Mike K.

July 23rd, 2010
5:55 pm

@Mary Elizabeth
Agreed – it’s not that big a deal. It’s just like evangelical Christians who don’t believe in evolution. They’re wrong, but it doesn’t matter. It’s just like Mormons who think Joesph Smith was a prophet. They’re wrong, but they’re nice people with a religion that preaches mostly good things.

However, if you’ll see my comment above, I just object to Cynthia attacking others for being irrational on the subject of race, when she herself is guilty of the same level of irrationality.

Mike K.

July 23rd, 2010
5:56 pm

By the way, my normal IP address appears to have been banned from posting on this blog. That’s also why I’m using a slightly different variation on my name than usual.

T-Town

July 23rd, 2010
5:59 pm

We fear those who are not like us as the enemy, instead of friends with a different culture or opinion.
Mike K: How do you know that Evangelical Christians and Mormons are wrong?

RF

July 23rd, 2010
5:59 pm

Mike- considering the mixture of gene pools we all come from, I have to wonder if eventually you’d get back to same primordial ooze that spawned us all, or to Adam and Eve, as the Bible calls it. Think about it, most of the largest religious groups in the world acknowledge some sort of genetic beginning of humans. I really don’t see how genetic differences that may have developed over time would prove your point. Most people believe, and I think science will eventually find if they haven’t already, that our modern concept of genetic distinction of race is irrelevant if you follow the basic genetic codes back their singular starting point. Something to think about perhaps?

barking frog

July 23rd, 2010
6:00 pm

Mike K;5:52; I believe Einstein said that all reality was in the mind of the observer, maybe
her reality is changing.

RF

July 23rd, 2010
6:03 pm

Scout and Frog- day or night, you ever smelled one? After one very suddenly disappointing camping trip involving a foolish friend (and alcohol), I discovered that whatever colors the skunk might be or even choose to wear ceases to matter entirely when he takes charge of the moment. And my dad can clear a room pretty quickly too when he gets going…but that’s beside the point.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
6:05 pm

Mike K.

I hear you but it takes more faith to believe in macro-evolution (vs. micro-evolution) than it does to believe in an “intelligent designer”.

If you were to see a computer laying in the middle of the road would you say it just “evolved” there or did someone design it and then put it there? No, you would say a human being did that. Now we have to by logic take it one step further. How did the human get the intelligence to design it?

Evolved or designed?

Just sayin ………………..

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
6:06 pm

barking frog/Mike:

Einstein also believed in a “designer”.

Mary Elizabeth

July 23rd, 2010
6:07 pm

Mike K
I’m trying to say that I perceive that your focus is on genetics, which is so very insignificant – as Cynthia pointed out with the percentage she gave, 99%. I believe your focus on genetics takes away from your focus on the spirit. As humans, we have limited focus with our energies and since yours seems to be so much on the flesh, not the spirit, I believe that narrow focus has to take root in your own soul. I am appealing to you to recognize this, and to change your heart and, thereby, your focus.

barking frog

July 23rd, 2010
6:09 pm

RF;5:59 Wouldn’t Adam and Eve’s Genetic makeup being the same explain that cain the
farmer was a homicidal maniac that hunted down and killed his hunter brother thereby
forever demeaning hunters as incompetent? This would prove your point about genetics.

barking frog

July 23rd, 2010
6:12 pm

Scout;6:06; He believed in a jewish god who was not a gambler.

barking frog

July 23rd, 2010
6:17 pm

RF;6:03; this might be a good way to determine college admissions rather than by class.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
6:25 pm

barking frog:

True ………….. but Who also was a “designer”

“Is it possible to combine energy quanta and the wave principles of radiation” he merrily wrote to a physicist friend. “Appearances are against it, but the Almighty – it seems – managed the trick.”

“Einstein” by Walter Isaacson

RF

July 23rd, 2010
6:29 pm

Frog: what, give them a drunk test to see how they deal with skunks or get a genetics profile? I know some college graduates who clearly should have had “no swimming” signs around their gene pool and some who are much more intelligent after a few shots of whatever libation is available. The night in question was not a good example for that, mind you, and come to think of it, I probably would question his genetic makeup sober.

Mike K.

July 23rd, 2010
6:32 pm

@Scout
I’m pretty certain that Einstein accepted the theory of evolution as the most likely explanation for the development of higher life forms.

As barking frog mentioned, he just didn’t think God played dice. As I mentioned, I don’t care what evangelicals believe about evolution. Most of them are nice people and their religion has a positive impact on their lives. I’m a fairly resutls-oriented person.

Mike K.

July 23rd, 2010
6:35 pm

A fairly results-oriented person who, evidently, can’t spell “resutls”.

JacobLocke

July 23rd, 2010
6:39 pm

I guess not.

White America ruins everything. I mean, how many fundamentalist, gun-toting, flag-waving, aggressively ignorant jerks do you know who aren’t white. White Americans blow up abortion clinics, protest war-veteran funerals, sit in isolated cabins making bombs, chop up people and put said people in freezers for winter stews. White Americans revile soccer, are solely responsible for gentrification projects, and have pretty much ruined music and film by exploiting stereotypes of other races. Without white people, America might just be an alright place to live, but so long as we have a white majority, you can forget about improving a crippled education system or lessening environmental rape because, heck, white people love crappy education and raping the land – they practically invented both.

JacobLocke

July 23rd, 2010
6:41 pm

Since the beginning of the European discovery of America, white folks on this continent have been incredibly fearful of anyone who isn’t white. First, they brought diseases with them that wiped out 95% of indigenous peoples in the Americas- wiped them out in a span of about 100 years (1492-1608). Then, to really screw them over, the ancestors of future white Americans began a 300-year campaign of cheating, slaughtering and generally giving the shaft to the remainder of those indigenous groups. F’n A. But, destroying the cultures that were already here wasn’t enough for these jerks. Nope. They went to another continent, rounded up hundreds of thousands of brown people living there, brought them over to America and THEN proceeded to shaft those people for about 300 years.

Calvin B.

July 23rd, 2010
6:42 pm

Can you believe this. Michael Thurman won the democratic nomination to face one Johnny Issakson.
Not a word said other than saying He won. Not a comparison of the race. It overwhelms the Governor’s race when you take into consideration the tough sledding he has in front, ala Alvin Greene. Come on AJC. pick it up. Its going to be a good one.

JacobLocke

July 23rd, 2010
6:42 pm

Anyone who doesn’t believe the white establishment is a real entity and that it DOES control the way of the world is incredibly delusional, in denial, or a liar.

JacobLocke

July 23rd, 2010
6:47 pm

And we’re all from Africa – I think the current genome project has all but proven that one.

Mary Elizabeth

July 23rd, 2010
6:48 pm

JacobLocke,
Not only did I say this to Mike K, I feel I need to say it to you. Look inside the spirit of each person, don’t focus on exterior flesh. You are angry at white people which you visualize as generality – not as unique persons. I continue to pray that this world will one day evolve spiritually to the point that we will see the spirit of unique individuals. We will, in that day, celebrate diversity as we celebrate differing flowers, but we will judge others (if we must judge) by their individual and unique souls, not by anything exterior. When we can do that, our own souls will bloom.

barking frog

July 23rd, 2010
6:57 pm

Scout; i was concerned because most designers i have known were of the third gender.
RF; No. admission by smell.
Mike K; Even Darwin in his later years repented accepted jesus and hoped for heaven.
don’t know if he made ir or not.

Lil' Barry Bailout

July 23rd, 2010
6:58 pm

Too fkn funny! CT doesn’t believe something until a Democrat politician says it.

I think that’s pretty much the definition of “koolaid drinker”.

Lil' Barry Bailout

July 23rd, 2010
7:01 pm

JacobLocke: Anyone who doesn’t believe the white establishment is a real entity and that it DOES control the way of the world is incredibly delusional, in denial, or a liar.
——————–

So who’s controlling Obama?

barking frog

July 23rd, 2010
7:02 pm

Jacob Locke; I guess the genome project makes us all African Americans. better make
that the light majority.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
7:14 pm

Mike K.

Oh, I hear you ………….. he believed in “evolution” as the method but still felt a designer had to be involved in the planning.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
7:15 pm

Hey, for you eggheads out there I thought this was pretty interesting ………. Hummmmm !

“Out of the supercharged intellectual world, three jarring theories of the twentieth century emerged: Einstein’s relativity, Heisenberg’s uncertainty and Kurt Godel’s incompleteness.”

“Godel (one of the most significant mathematicians of all time) decided to become a U.S. citizen in 1947. He took his preparation for the exam very seriously, studied the Constitution carefully, and (as might be expected by the formulator of the incompleteness theory) found what he believed to be a logical flaw. There was an internal inconsistency, he insisted, that would allow the entire government to degenerate into tyranny.”

“Einstein” by Walter Isaacson

“He rather excitedly told me in looking at the Constitution to his distress he had found some inner constradictions and that he could show in a perfectly legal manner it would be possible for somebody to become a dictator and set up a Fascist regime, never intended by those who drew up the Constitution.”

O. Morganstern, Memorandum, September 13, 1971

kevinbgoode

July 23rd, 2010
7:17 pm

Basing affirmative action on class would never work with conservatives. This is a group who feel that people choose to be poor basically out of laziness and lack of motivation to pick the pockets of others and call it “profit” – so therefore they shouldn’t receive assistance to contribute to greater society.
It also flies in the face of other core conservative “values” – such as the principle that people hire and promote people most like themselves. Why did we need affirmative action in the first place? Because it was common practice in this country to reserve the best and brightest occupations and educational opportunities for the white male minority. And since everyone knows that being in a “network” is a requirement for getting ahead, reserving that network for mostly white men, themselves a minority, was the social custom in this country. Conservatives contend that those barriers to other American citizens are now completely removed, and the minority most disadvantaged has become the straight white male. Of course, some of them still advocate that private businesses should be allowed to discriminate in hiring and serving the public, presumably with the exception of the minority straight white males. They certainly support special rights for “churches” to exclude qualified gays, for example, from employment and/or enrollment in schools and universities.
The heart of conservatism is a deeply-held belief in supporting classism – reasoning that those with the means handed to them are entitled to opportunity and the rest aren’t intelligent or willing to work hard enough to magically break into the proper network. The large elephant in the room of opportunity is our failure to recognize or discuss a system which has always favored the connected over the talented.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
7:24 pm

kevinbgoode:

It also flies in the face of the Constitution.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
7:25 pm

Time for chow ………………….

kevinbgoode

July 23rd, 2010
7:25 pm

One recent report indicated that Tea Party members believed, among other things, that gays were overrepresented in political life and influence in this country. Of course, one question that is never asked, is if the minority straight white male population in this country is overrepresented and wields influence far beyond their numbers. It wouldn’t take more than a quick look at the demographic makeup of governmental bodies in this country to confirm that – but you won’t see anyone talking about that situation at all or why it is perpetuated.
Do conservatives resent that overrepresentation of one minority group running the lion’s share of our country’s affairs? Of course not – it is considered an entitlement, a remnant of “affirmative action” which helps coddle the one minority group who has always believed the rights of other Americans must be “given” at their pleasure.

Lil' Barry Bailout

July 23rd, 2010
7:53 pm

kevinbgoode, if there was a button that would undo all the effects of the white man’s original sin–slavery–would you push it?

If not, then STFU.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
7:56 pm

This is getting dull. Time to stir it up a little:

Christians, Jews, Buddists, Shintoists, Hindus, Sikhs, Wiccans, Atheists and even Satanists are by and large living peacefully among each other around the world …………. but the Muslims, oh, those Muslims!

Lil' Barry Bailout

July 23rd, 2010
8:05 pm

The Muslims most profitable “industry” is the religion-based equivalent of Jesse Jackson’s race-hustling.

Cutty

July 23rd, 2010
8:07 pm

Cynthia, why argue with fools……

James

July 23rd, 2010
8:09 pm

Wow, another article about race by Cynthia Tucker. There are certain people have sit back and play race bait games for a living. Racial harmony is something that don’t want or believe in. This is why your readership continues to drop, whites are tired of tuning in each day to hear how racist they are. Look in the mirror for someone who sees EVERYTHING in terms of race Cynthia. I’m sure all your liberal co-workers, everyone in your in-town neighborhood, and all your friends see things the way you do, but it’s not reality.

barking frog

July 23rd, 2010
8:12 pm

scout;7:15; He was probably looking at Article II Section 3. that allows the prez
to convene Congress on exrtaordinary occasions and then upon any disagreement
as to time to adjourn(pretty easy to arrange) adjourn Congress to a time that he thinks
proper. Its the language. it doesn’t mean he can adjourn them forever(covered elsewhere)
just that he can pick the time of adjournment. couldn’t have slipped that one past
those good ol boys.

D. Truth

July 23rd, 2010
8:14 pm

Amen Richard!!

RF

July 23rd, 2010
8:17 pm

Scout: You dare mention that hateful word?? We all know they’re out to destroy the rest of the world!

barking frog

July 23rd, 2010
8:28 pm

Scout; We’re probably the nation with the most Christians and we’ve been at war with other
nations with large groups of christians since 1940(Germany,Italy,Korea, Vietnam). These
countries also had Warring factions within(Germany, christians and jews)(Vietnam,
christians and buddhists)If we didn’t have our foot on Israel they’d be kicking butt,
The japanese(shinto,buddhist,christian) would like to kick hell out of N. Korea but
we won’t let them. Muslims don’t do war well i.e. Iraq.

godless heathen

July 23rd, 2010
8:31 pm

Of course there is a genetic component of race. See Sickle Cell Anemia. See white boys dance.

skeeter

July 23rd, 2010
8:36 pm

Scout ol’ buddy, I figure you for BATF since that’s where they put the federal law enforcement that couldn’t cut the grade 30 years ago. I know Shirley Sherrod. Losing her was a travesty for Georgia. She got it. She understood the mission and she gave heart to the folks in the field. I am appalled by the willingness of our society to sacrifice the good folks at the altar of ideology. Shirley’s treatment makes be sick to my stomach of both sides. But I guess it’s nothing new. Melville covered it in Billy Budd. Oh sorry Scout. Didn’t mean to get beyond your field of reference.

Lil' Barry Bailout

July 23rd, 2010
8:39 pm

As one of our wisest Supreme Court justices said, if you want to stop discriminating against people, stop discriminating against people.

T Knight

July 23rd, 2010
9:09 pm

“I know of no rights of race superior to the rights of humanity” Frederick Douglas

Webb is on the right track.

840

July 23rd, 2010
9:16 pm

Let’s sentence caucasians into slavery for half the time history calculates blacks were slaves and call it even, after that we call it even no need for reparations…

namaste

July 23rd, 2010
9:18 pm

christians are proof that god is a canard…

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
9:21 pm

Lil’ Barry Bailout ”

Very true. Wonder where he has been lately? Jesse and Barry just don’t get along !

concerned mother

July 23rd, 2010
9:22 pm

CT, I read both this article and the one you had in the print edition Sunday and all I can think is that this race problem is a two way street. Just like there may be white privilege, there seems also to be an undercurrent of black entitlement. The fact of the matter is that white privilege means particular wealthy families–not the general population who sharecropper and did without like their black counterparts after the Civil War.

The playing field is more equal now than it was thirty years ago. If white privilege exist today, it’s at the cost of the working class. In order to deal with the race question, people of color need to understand that the question runs both ways.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
9:23 pm

namaste:

As I always say, you will change your mind about .0002 seconds after you hit eternity.

I hope and pray you do before then.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
9:26 pm

840 :

Good grief ! Did you sleep all through “World History” ? Whites were probably in slavery much longer in the history of the world than blacks (who were isolated way down there in Africa) ever thought about.

…………. and it’s not the same but have you ever heard of “indentured servants”? They didn’t exactly get a head start over here either.

namaste

July 23rd, 2010
9:26 pm

scout,

like a fly to a pile of poop you are a easy mark…

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
9:27 pm

T Knight :

That means Frederick Douglas would be an “Uncle Tom” today.

kevinbgoode

July 23rd, 2010
9:27 pm

Lil Barry sez: “kevinbgoode, if there was a button that would undo all the effects of the white man’s original sin–slavery–would you push it?”

The white male is a minority in this country. Is there some reason they continue to dominate the power structures, the boardrooms, and the institutional units of government?

lil' baby jesus

July 23rd, 2010
9:29 pm

Allah is not mocked. Allahu Akbar….

Karl Marx

July 23rd, 2010
9:31 pm

What’s a “hops?” I thoughted youse beez was an “editor.”

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
9:31 pm

skeeter :

LOL ! It’s four letters but not BATF …….. I’ll give you a hint ………. U – - S ………….. :o

Now, let’s get serious. Did she or did she not during her 43 minute diatribe state that Republicans that were fighting Obama’s health care plan were mean spirited racists? Yes or No?

If she did (and that is what I have heard) she DESERVES TO STAY FIRED because that’s even worse than what she said about the white farmer 24 years ago in my opinion.

If you want to debate ANYTHING and want to take me on ………. let’s go ! I enjoy it !

Karl Marx

July 23rd, 2010
9:31 pm

P.S. Screw Allah.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
9:32 pm

skeeter:

I’l give you another hint …………… founded July 5th, 1865.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
9:32 pm

Karl:

I hope you are locked and loaded ……………. :o

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
9:33 pm

kevinbgoode :

Yep.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
9:34 pm

namaste:

GBY !

billie jean queen

July 23rd, 2010
9:38 pm

Shangri la is within grasp. The bigotry of Christian religion and division by race is knocking on heavens door. Apologies to the great B. Dylan. Soon (15-18 yrs) christianity will be a dead religion and the white man will blend into a beautiful moccha allowing the World to live in peace as one.

Dan Deacon

July 23rd, 2010
9:38 pm

Cynthia…..you continue to be a racist individual, happy to pull a race card because you have no credible excuse for blacks that are irresponsible being that way and then believing that affirmative action in any manner is acceptable. That’s like saying to blacks….okay, whites will be chose before any blacks, irregardless as to your character, experience or education. What an idiot!!!

Do you think because more blacks are chosen to earn millions and play basketball that perhaps now whites should be chosen instead due to the imbalance. Hell no you don’t feel that way. You wish it could only be one sided and in favor of blacks. Wish in this hand and well you know in the other.

You really think it’s acceptable to choose over race or class (whatever that means…sounds like slick willie talk to me)? That confirms your racism. Go crawl back up in your little hole and hide.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
9:38 pm

barking frog:

1) Maybe that was the section he was looking at but I think it was much more than that. We’ll never know for sure but just remember that a democracy (Constitutional Republic) is the only form of government that allow for its own peaceful destruction.

2) I think you will find that most if not all of those other wars (although fought by people of different religions) were political wars. Iraq and Afghanistan are relgious wars. In other words, did a Viet Cong terrorist ever show up over here and blow up anything? No. And after we left they were quite happy to leave us alone.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
9:40 pm

Dan :

I already brought up the basketball/sports thing. They are not going to answer you on that because it doesn’t fit nicely into their equation.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
9:41 pm

billie jean queen :

“Heaven and earth will pass away but my Word will stand forever”

I hope you know that hundreds of thousands have said what you just said ever since 33 A.D.
You will soon follow them.

Tommy Maddox

July 23rd, 2010
9:42 pm

White privilege? Been down town lately?

BD

July 23rd, 2010
9:42 pm

@RF, I knew you were an educator by your previous comments and even then was pleasantly surprised by the Ruby Payne reference :-) .
Not many parents would have told you what your mother did and that was refreshing.

@ Scout, most cultures had slaves, even whites here started as indentured servants. The difference is that slavery didn’t exist in other countries the way that it was carried out in America. In Africa, slaves were treated as family in many aspects and some were allowed to gain freedom. Because Africans had no knowledge about the type of slavery that existed in another “world” (basically), they did not know what they were getting their rivals into.
There are no words to describe the differences between our history of slavery and how other countries treated their slaves

John

July 23rd, 2010
9:43 pm

Why should class based affirmative action exist? What did our government historically do against the lower socioeconomic class? Why does the government have to favor any class or anyone for that matter?

godless heathen

July 23rd, 2010
9:48 pm

Scout: “As I always say, you will change your mind about .0002 seconds after you hit eternity.”

And I always say, “Prove it.”

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
9:49 pm

BD:

I’m sorry, you are correct – “the noble savage thing” and all. S

And sometimes the African people even “ate” the people they captured from other tribes ……… after torture of course. And of course in the Muslim world then (and now) slaves were treated very humanely.

Oh yes, and don’t forget of all the slaves brought to the new world about 90% went to Central and South America where they were able to bask in the tropical paradise. They were real happy they went there instead of up here.

I’m glad you reminded us of all that. Thanks.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
9:49 pm

godless heathen :

I won’t have to.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
9:50 pm

John :

Because our government likes violating the Constitution when they want to achieve a certain result.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
9:51 pm

Hey guys ………….. keep ‘em coming ………….. I’m loving this !!

sud

July 23rd, 2010
9:53 pm

“The divinity of Jesus is a convenient cover for abusrdity.” J. Adama 2nd Prez

“I don’t find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.” T. Jefferson 3rd Pres

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
9:56 pm

sud:

May I refer you to my 9:41

Join the group.

Harold

July 23rd, 2010
9:56 pm

Cynthia, please don’t take this personally, but all of your responses to the posters in here sound like you have a chip on your shoulder.

godless heathen

July 23rd, 2010
10:00 pm

Well then Scout, I won’t sweat it. When you and I die we will both be the same degree of dead.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
10:03 pm

godless heathen:

Nope !

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have ETERNAL LIFE (emphasis added).”

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
10:04 pm

Cynthia: This is VERY interesting. You need to do some investigative reporting and check this out ! Can you be fair and unbiased enought to do that ? Just once ?

Headline: “Shirley Sherrod’s Disappearing Act: Not So Fast”

Here are just a few questions about Ms. Sherrod that deserve answers:

•Was Ms. Sherrod’s USDA appointment an unspoken condition of her organization’s settlement?
•How much “debt forgiveness” is involved in USDA’s settlement with New Communities?
•Why were the Sherrods so deserving of a combined $300,000 in “pain and suffering” payments — amounts that far exceed the average payout thus far to everyone else? ($1.15 billion divided by 16,000 is about $72,000)?
•Given that New Communities wound down its operations so long ago (it appears that this occurred sometime during the late 1980s), what is really being done with that $13 million in settlement money?

READ THE DETAILS BELOW ……………… HUMMMMMM !

Read more at the Washington Examiner

Rafe Hollister

July 23rd, 2010
10:06 pm

Jim Webb? Hasn’t he long been discredited and found to be untruthful about his past. Who cares what he says.

Regarding Diversity at UGA, Adams has tried to “significantly transform this” university. I think someone else is also guilty to trying to do something similar. He should try to give a break to those needing a break, i.e., if an African American and a white are remotely close in qualifications, lean toward diversity. However, people who have lived in Georgia all their lives, parents and grandparents living here for years paying taxes to support UGA, should not be shunned in favor of out of state students and illegal aliens, as Adams prefers. While working on diversity, maybe it high time we had some academic diversity. How about occassionally hiring someone who believes in the Constitution and American exceptionalism. Now that would be a diverse university. Adams need to be fired, maybe when his protector, Sonny leaves, we can make that move and improve UGA.

Beleck

July 23rd, 2010
10:06 pm

all these so called Christians who keep stuffing their religion down my throat. i do get tired of their blasphemy.

As Ghandi said about Christ. A great many called themselves Christians, but obviously not many followed Christ’s teachings.

something somewhere about doing unto the others/poor as you would do unto Christ, in that Bible story, i gather. i just never see it practiced. this intolerance for the poor, the weak, the other. et al.

and the meek shall inherit the earth. lol.

Ken S.

July 23rd, 2010
10:07 pm

Wow! Cynthia references an article written by Jim Webb and she’s branded a “race baiter”? Jim Webb wrote the original article.

On another note, I like how many of you proudly decontextualize the history of this country. As long as we remove the context, the myth of our current meritocracy can proudly continue.

Rev Wright

July 23rd, 2010
10:07 pm

My sister…you are a bigger racist than me! My brother Obama will rule this country like a Prince of Africa!

sud

July 23rd, 2010
10:08 pm

“This would be the best of possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.” J Adams. 2nd Prez

cooter

July 23rd, 2010
10:12 pm

Oh! tiny sky cloud diety please stop giving me free will to believe you are a fart in the cupboard…

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
10:12 pm

Beleck:

Jesus covered the very thing you just talked about many times. Here is just one example:

“Not everyone who calls Me Lord, Lord shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven”

The key is to be one that does ! It’s never too late to get on board. I wish you well.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
10:13 pm

Ken S.:

Please expound on your brief thesis above.

Rafe Hollister

July 23rd, 2010
10:14 pm

Beleck: The point you libs miss about helping the poor and disabled is that Christ calls on each of us to voluntarily without being asked to step forward and help those in need. I don’t think he ever considered that one day governments would use their powers to force wealth transfer. The Gov takes so much of our money that there is little left to voluntarily use to help out someone in need, plus “we already gave at the office”.

Mallory

July 23rd, 2010
10:14 pm

Ms. Tucker, the election of our first black president has cost your people their leverage.

It was bound to happen.

You made it happen.

concerned mother

July 23rd, 2010
10:15 pm

Well, I see no one’s talking the issue so its no wonder that CT would bail on the discussion.

Not Racist or Prejudiced

July 23rd, 2010
10:15 pm

@Privileged: I am priviledged to be called a ‘racist’ if i have critique on other cultures than my own. BUT YOU SHOULD KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THOSE CULTURES THAT YOU HAVE LEARNED THROUGH ACTUALY EXPERIENCE BEFORE YOU “CRITIQUE” THEM.
I am priviledged to be called a ‘racist’ if i have critique on liberals. IF BY CRITIQUE YOU MEAN HAVE A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION AS OPPOSED TO MAKING VILE AND RUDE PERSONAL ATTACK COMMENTS, THEN “CRITIQUE” IS FINE.
I am priviledged to be called a ‘racist’ if i don’t support Obama’s current policies. YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT NOT TO SUPPORT A PRESIDENT’S POLICIES. YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO THREATEN HIS LIFE, THAT OF HIS FAMILY, MAKE NASTY AND IGNORANT COMMENTS ABOUT HIS PERSONAGE, WHERE HE COMES FROM OR TELL HIM TO BACK TO AFRICA WHILE DRESSED IN A MONKEY SUIT.
I am priviledged to be called a ‘racist’ if i do not support handouts and entitlement. SINCE YOU DON’T SUPPORT HANDOUTS OR ENTITLEMENTS, I’M SURE YOU WILL REFUSE YOUR MEDICARE AND ANY SOCIAL SECURITY DUE YOU–ALL ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS.
I am priviledged to be called a ‘racist’ if i say that illegal aliens have commited a crime and are not exempt from consequences. DOES THAT INCLUDE WESTERN EUROPEAN ILLEGAL ALIENS OR JUST THOSE THAT ARE BROWN AND SPEAK SPANISH?

NATURALLY “YOU” IS BEING USED BROADLY AND NOT JUST AIMED AT YOU. SO, IF YOU RESPOND TO THIS POST, PLEASE DON’T COME BACK WITH THE TYPICAL, “I DIDN’T DO ANY OF THOSE THINGS.” PLENTY OF PEOPLE HAVE, WHICH WOULD QUALIFY THEM AS RACISTS.

Jose

July 23rd, 2010
10:17 pm

Tuck, you must be filled with so much hate for white conservatives that it eats you up inside. You really carry no weight in the national battle and have only this blog that people can come on daily and either support you and your racist ways or call you what you is, a bigot. It really is no wonder that your employer is in serious finacial trouble and why you are only taken serious by a small, and I do mean small amount of Atlantans. It really is a shame your paper can not afford to cover the whole state of Georgia. Like I said only a small amount get to see your ignorance.

Jose

July 23rd, 2010
10:19 pm

Tuck always bales when she can’t support her racism any longer. Very weak minded, like most racist both black and white.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
10:23 pm

concerned mother :

I tried “talking the issue” in my earlier posts (go back and see) but she wouldn’t bite or even answer my questions.

RF

July 23rd, 2010
10:24 pm

BD: studying Ruby Payne helped me understand what a fundamentally different perspective generational poverty gives a person. It’s one thing to look at a poor person and just think he or she isn’t trying or has the “entitlement” mentality. It’s another thing when you can understand that that person’s entire perspective on life, the opportunities available, and money are completely different from the middle class. Many do not see the long-term opportunity to move up, while any of us who are educated and can cling, however desperately, to middle class, if put into poverty would only be there as long as it took to get out. To truly help a person from poverty find a way out, you have to help them develop a completely new, and sometimes foreign, view of the world and their place in it. That isn’t easy, but we teachers could do a lot more to help if we really wanted to try.

Beleck

July 23rd, 2010
10:24 pm

and if white men chosoe not to see the “power structure” they live in and are part of, that still doesn’t change the facts. i don’t have to touch water to know it is “wet.” after living in and under a “white power structure” since July 4th, 1776, i wonder how long these people can choose to see their own version of “reality.” and live with others who see a different reality. no one here lives separate and apart from one another. kind of like a powder keg. we are all in this together, whether we like it or not.

that’s part of the “Reality” being sold. the “wish” that i have no responsibility to anyone else.
as if. lol.” My taxes are for me, “only” and not you!!! based thinking. get out of my face behavior if you disagree. class war indeed using white vs. black as cover. stealing and looting a la Banksters goes on while the black and white war gives the rich cover to loot America.

and they have done well over the last decade in particular.

reality is a set of cold hard facts, which i gather most don’t like and choose to live with their own version. that i have to live with such fear based actions, self destroying behavior is the reality of those choosing not to deal with the America we are, not what is.

Been a long time coming, this bare faced outright attack on white privilege that began in the Civil Rights Act. and it will take generations to work out. so, let the rich loot America while we fight black against white. they, the rich, are doing a wonderfully good job at fleecing the poor and the middle class..

as they say. thanks to you… it’s working.. the theft is way ahead of schedule.

Ronald Jc

July 23rd, 2010
10:25 pm

We tried it WITHOUT affirmative action after the civil war and we got Jim Crow. We tried it separate but equal and we got unequal. We tried intergration and we got the back of the bus. We tried civil rights but we get little civil respect. If you leave hiring, residential, security issues to whites would there be MORE minorities in employment positions, homes, and police stations? How many Black people run fortune 500s or Mid-size businesses? How many of you so called “reverse racism, anti-affirmative action” crying white males would even KNOW a qualified Black man, let alone hire one? Give me a break. If you look at this country and the corporate, political, and judicial systems, white men seem to be doing pretty well.

Get Off Of It Already

July 23rd, 2010
10:25 pm

I’ll be glad to pay reparations to anyone alive today that was a slave, and to every slave I’ve ever owned. OK?

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
10:25 pm

Not Racist or Prejudiced :

You need to take a deep breath.

The only thing that qualifies someone as a “racist” is if they believe their race is genetically superior to another ……….. otherwise they are just bigoted, biased, prejudiced or just plain picky.

Please try to use the right words.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
10:29 pm

Get Off Of It Already :

Exactly. And this may not seem like much but you know what else I do.

When I was a kid growing up in Chattanooga, some of my more “well to do” friends on the other side of the tracks had black “maids”. Like my wife, they were practically raised by them and they were always very nice to me.

Whenever, I see a black lady who even comes close to that age group (they would be in their 80’s now), I kill myself trying to get doors for them, help them out of their car, etc. Anything I can do.

Christina

July 23rd, 2010
10:32 pm

“sally forth in the hops”???? Editing! Spellcheck! Something, PLEASE!

Beleck

July 23rd, 2010
10:33 pm

keeping the “Minorities” on the defensive is a great ploy. the best defense is a good offense. eff over anyone who tries to stop the “script.”

the attack on the Civil Rights Act, the return to straight white male domination, is what is going on here.
there were too many changes for the white males in power and they learned how to sell the “fear” to the poor white brethren under the “fear of the blacks” and payback from slavery.

it works so well. so amazingly well for the last 30 years.

my mother protested in the streets against “integration.” so i “Know” what is going down. been there done that. lies are still lies. fear of the Black man and payback. i just wonder how long before more people are killed. how many times, as Bob Dylan said. the truth is eternal.

that’s is why the whites are so afraid. they got screwed by their own people. the rich threw them under the bus like Obama has done to all those who voted for him. payback for Obama is coming in November and it will be SWEET!!!

cooter

July 23rd, 2010
10:34 pm

Imaginary sky-cloud diety,

Please smite me to hell, I couldn’t bare spending a moment in heaven with your pious followers….

T.G.301

July 23rd, 2010
10:40 pm

There’s one constant in the slow process of eradicating racism from america’s face and that is time, if we for one moment read back, think back and look back we would be able to see that america has come farther than any other country on earth in a shared world and having a black president has nothing to do with it. The primary reason for this progress and what will be the primary reason for the eradication of racism are the young people of america. These are the people who did not see color during the presidential race, these are the people who with unyielding determination never gave up or gave into apartheid in south africa, these are the people who suffered in silence and cried out aloud but continued to literally marched forward toward a day of now. what i’m trying to say to you is that the old becomes extinct with time, the new becomes old with time and today will always be different we may not be here to see it but time will right all wrongs, in time you’ll see.

Ronald Jc

July 23rd, 2010
10:40 pm

@Scout – so you are saying because black maids were nice to you and your wife and you hold doors for women in that age group (what about the younger ones? A woman is a woman) you are not racist? You are right, you are ignorant.

@Getoffitalready – Did your family leave you anything? Money? Probably made off the back of slaves. Black people don’t want reparations, we want white people to repair their minds and hearts because whether you like it or not, you are not the predominate race on this world and one day you will be on the other side of this situation. Read your BIBLE.

Not Racist or Prejudiced

July 23rd, 2010
10:41 pm

@Kevinbgoode
“…The heart of conservatism is a deeply-held belief in supporting classism – reasoning that those with the means handed to them are entitled to opportunity and the rest aren’t intelligent or willing to work hard enough to magically break into the proper network. The large elephant in the room of opportunity is our failure to recognize or discuss a system which has always favored the connected over the talented.”

You must add racism to the conservatifve’s deeply held beliefs, for what else could explain poor whites who are registered Republicans, yet they live in trailor parks, have no education, no job, and little hope of making a better life for themselves? These same poor whites would never want to be associated with poor blacks, since they, in their poorness, see themselves as superior simply based on their white skin.

kI say that if we voted our wallets or pocketbooks vs. a party, the privileged would be out of the picture and the middle class and others would be setting policy for this country.

killerj

July 23rd, 2010
10:41 pm

Dam Cynthia,sounds like South Africa.Go tea parties.

Not Racist or Prejudiced

July 23rd, 2010
10:45 pm

@Scout
I did use the correct word. You should pay close attention to you own point. What allows these racists to make ignorant comments or tell someone to “go back to Africa” is that they think they are superior and is a position to tell the president of the US what to do and where he should go. You can;t get any more superior than that.

dtruth

July 23rd, 2010
10:46 pm

I agree with some of what Mr. Webb says. But from my perspective white privilege is alive, well and practiced more now than ever in GA especially, as well as all over the U.S. I, my wife and many friends have first hand experience of seeing many low educated, whites with no experience in fields where they are hired as the manager, lead or highest paying position. This is happening in Fed Gov, State Gov, Banking, Telecom, and numerous other organizations. Whether its nepotism or racism it is alive and well. Blacks that have worked in the organization for years that are supremely qualified will never get offered the job. Now with the first black president and the worst financial situation in this country in my life time it has gotten worse. Whites are looking out for their friends and family even more today because of paranoia about a “Black President”.One blogger mentioned they hired numerous unqualified blacks with the white man being last. I can’t believe a white manager with appropriate hiring authority would hire a unqualified black because of affirmative action. If they did its their fault, they should hire the best person. I personally was laid off of my job when Gov Purdue outsourced state jobs in 2009. I had perfect qualifications for positions (per HR) with the newly organized state and private companies that were taking over. I did not even get an interview for one of ten positions that I fully qualified for. A white women that was politically connected with no experience whatsoever in this area was hired in one of the positions and lower qualified whites were placed in all other jobs. I was laid off along with numerous other blacks. I am not racist, but this is what I have seen.

Salty Dawg

July 23rd, 2010
10:48 pm

I never owned a slave and a never oppressed another person whether black, brown, white, or otherwise. So why should I have the deck stacked against me when I go for a job interview? Is injustice the remedy for injustice? If someone steals my car am I made whole by being allowed to steal the car of another? If someone assaults me should I be allowed to assault another innocent person to help me recover? Shouldn’t I be made whole in a way that doesn’t unfairly penalize others?
I empathize with those who have suffered from racial discrimination, for that is what I am forced to deal with through no fault of my own. I’m all for penalizing companies, schools, etc. that discriminate. Sue them into bankruptcy for all I care. But I also believe that rewards should be based on merit. The best person for the job should get the job. The most qualified applicants should get into the best schools. If there is a disadvantaged class of people, whether it is based on race, gender, religion, or socioeconomic status, then help those people advance by helping them become the most qualified. Give them training and support to help them earn the best jobs and spots in the best schools.
Frankly, I would be insulted if a company wanted to give me a job because I fit some kind of ethnic or gender quota and it always amazes me when other people aren’t. Strictly on the basis of total numbers there are more poor white people than poor black people, so it obviously isn’t about helping the disadvantaged get ahead. And gifting someone a job doesn’t make them qualified for that job, so it isn’t about helping the disadvantaged better themselves. So ask yourself this: what is the point of affirmative action? It is appeasement. And if you aren’t insulted by that, you should be.

bud

July 23rd, 2010
10:48 pm

I like paying taxes. I don’t mind the trade-off. Infrastructure (roads,bridges,etc.) and safety(police,fire depts.) are worth every dime.

denmark vesey

July 23rd, 2010
10:48 pm

webb’s commentary reminds us that racism against Blacks and non whites is alive, well and thriving in the united states. webb’s argument that the white man in america is in trouble is pure fantasy and not based in reality. if we’re honest, the policy makers and those who control every institution in america are white. pity the white man………..I think not!!!!

ctjay

July 23rd, 2010
10:52 pm

C’mon Cynthia, don’t let the establishment scare you. You and I both know that affirmative action programs are a necessary evil that seeks to overcome the effects of past and current racial discrimination. If you believe for one second, because a few black women have been pushed to the front of the line at the expense of black men, that covert and institutionalized racism is a thing of the past………..let me be the first to pull the wool from over your eyes. Hmmmmmmmm, but maybe you’re right…….since affirmative action programs did more to advance ONLY white and black WOMEN (b/c we all know employers would much rather hire a black woman over a black man…………….don’t believe it?…..look around your office), we should just scrap it since it never helped the brotha’s anyway.

Beleck

July 23rd, 2010
10:52 pm

before “integration” my city was more “integrated” than after. all “integration” did was segregate my city. since then, black and white live further apart than ever. what an irony that the fear of the “black man” caused more segregation than integration.

what a waste!!! do something that works this time. for we are running out of space to run away from each other.besides when the rich are done with us, we shall all be as poor as those we “label as unworthy.” and the fear level is being raised higher and higher and boosted more and more to avoid dealing with a broken society. our myths and frameworks don’t work any more. yet all i see is the call to go back to “yesterday”. which didn’t work then either. we need new ways of seeing the old truths.

and yesterday sucked so bad,especially if you weren’t a straight white man, you were effed. of course, today women are still being “screwed” every which way. Women must be really frightening to some men. i have no desire to go back to the horrors of yesterday. although, the similarities with today are frighteningly comparable. just now it is easier to screw poor whites as easily as was done to the blacks.

i am amazed how well the PR campaign to divide us according to color works and not a whole lot is said about being screwed by the Rich Corporations who own our Congress, President and Court system. Focus on the hate between black and white works as a diversion to take and consolidate corporate control.

how like sheep we are being led to slaughter. financial slaughter, this time.

Ronin

July 23rd, 2010
10:53 pm

Scout @ 5:31, you’re correct.

The Webb post speaks volumes.

Ronald Jc

July 23rd, 2010
10:54 pm

@dtruth – most of these people are repeating FAUX News talking points. They cry about 1 black man getting a job because of a law but say nothing about 20 white men getting jobs because of nepotism, bias, or racism. The majority of workers in state government are white. Funny, the Republicans act like the only people unemployed are Black. I LMAO when I see uneducated, poor, unemployed whites, crying about what President Obama is doing to them when they were in the same or worse condition under Bush.

Not Racist or Prejudiced

July 23rd, 2010
10:57 pm

Amen, Ronald Jc

BravesFan79

July 23rd, 2010
10:59 pm

The REAL victims in America are Black Women! Their black men infect them with diseases and abuse them at such high rates that AIDS and Femicide are the top 2 killers of beautiful black women. What a shame, no wonder so many black females have to turn to white men for marriage.

Ronald Jc

July 23rd, 2010
11:00 pm

@Mallory – “Ms. Tucker, the election of our first black president has cost your people their leverage.
It was bound to happen. You made it happen.”

What leverage? It seems to me that “your people” are the ones saying we HAVE leverage because he is President. Make up your mind. President Obama has done more to help rich white bankers and CEOs, and poor whites than he has for black people. Do you know that there are MORE WHITES on unemployment and welfare than Blacks? Sure the percentage of Blacks is higher but the actual number of whites is higher.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
11:00 pm

Beleck:

You sure are hard to figure out.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
11:03 pm

Ronald jc:

If you will read what I said again ……… I said “I kill myself” trying to get doors for those older ladie. I have even crossed the street !

Of course I do it for all women …….. but they are a special group.

Good grief ……… you are splitting hairs here. Lighten up.

stw

July 23rd, 2010
11:05 pm

Has anyone seen CT and Michelle Obama in the same room together ??

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
11:06 pm

Not Racist or Prejudiced :

I think I am superior to an Auburn fan or a “leg” from the Army. Does that mean I think I am genetically superior ?

Give me a break.

You don’t know what people are thinking and until you do, use the right word ……… “bigot” which follows their actions without getting into genetics.

Beleck

July 23rd, 2010
11:06 pm

after 40 years of pushing/ selling the fear of the black man, i don’t think any change for the good will come quickly. 40 years of hyping “fear” to the whites has paid off in a real mind continuum that only education can unravel. thing is, Schools are Socialistic. they “help” some people think. and thinking is the sure fire way to help stop the “fear” being sold to the whites. so no money for education, schools, and anything that “blacks” might be helped by.

that’s how the war on Government works. and worked for the last 40 years. Madison Ave PR campaign is a success. and now we have a Government that finally doesn’t work at all.
the Government is the Problem mantra finally came true. as long as blacks aren’t helped, Government is great, i.e. Medicare, Social Security. But blacks can use roads, schools, bridges, libraries, and all other social structure, and no taxes are to go there. cause Blacks can get some of my taxes.

we’ve been told over and over that taxes enable the poor to suck on hard working capable people.

and “poor” is another word for “black.

Ronald Jc

July 23rd, 2010
11:07 pm

@ SaltyDawg – “I never owned a slave and a never oppressed another person whether black, brown, white, or otherwise. So why should I have the deck stacked against me when I go for a job interview? ”

Explain how the ‘deck is stacked’ against you. Because you are white? Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase! What are your qualifications? Has a black man ever gotten a job over you because of affirmative action? If so, why didn’t you file a reverse descrimination suit? Stop spouting what you THINK might happen and deal with reality. I tell you what, take an unqualified black man with you the next time you apply and see who gets the job.

Beleck

July 23rd, 2010
11:09 pm

Scout, yeah you are right. i am complex, but life is complex so i do the best i can

fcuk

July 23rd, 2010
11:11 pm

Hey, and why is anyone pointing to the fact that Tom Vilsack, without hesitation, asked for the resignation of Shirley Sherrod. As a black person, I see (CLEARLY) how racism played a role in how her superiors reacted to her and the situation…….no benefit of the doubt, no respect, no second thoughts, no listening to her side of the story. Just a bunch of panic-stricken phone calls and and a cancellation of her USDA login account! “Get out……you n*gger…..never wanted ya here in the first place”……..”I knew we shouldn’t have hired her”…….”what was she thinking?”……..”we knew it was too good to be true”………thoughts that obviously raced through the mind of her “superiors”…….call me callous, but this is simply more proof that blacks are the last hired hired……first fired…………..ALWAYS!!!!

RLJ

July 23rd, 2010
11:12 pm

Interesting post and ideas. Ross Douthat’s recent column in the NYT pointed out how middle to lower class whites are excluded from Ivie League schools more greatly than minorities from similar classes. In seeking diversity, universities exclude a part of the diversity of this country. I agree that it is not a racial thing, but a class thing. I am not sure of the solutions that anyone proposes.

Beleck

July 23rd, 2010
11:12 pm

what’s even more interesting is i am told my great great grandparents owned slaves, or so we gather from the oral history. and i grew up with blacks and was told not to associate with black, because “you just don’t do those things.”

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
11:12 pm

Salty Dawg:

Good words and better yet Constitutional !

Jose

July 23rd, 2010
11:13 pm

Slavery is not dead. The democratic party is the largest slave owners in the world. They just don’t own blacks mind you. Oh no, they show no prejudice to their slaves, any color will do. They will give you “free” healthcare, free food, pay you to sit home and if you want to look for a job, that’s ok. Maybe one day they will give free housing and cars. No my friends, slavery is not dead and the best part is all your owners ask is you vote for them every election. Yes sir, that’s not much to ask for when it comes to all this “free” stuff you gonna get. A vote for a democrat is a vote for slavery. The new motto for 2010 and 2012.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
11:14 pm

Beleck:

10-4 !

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
11:15 pm

Jose:

Our government system of taking care of people has ruined generations of families and wasted Trillions.

Mikeo76

July 23rd, 2010
11:15 pm

Salty Dawg

Do you realize how contradictory your comments are?

“If there is a disadvantaged class of people, whether it is based on race, gender, religion, or socioeconomic status, then help those people advance by helping them become the most qualified. Give them training and support to help them earn the best jobs and spots in the best schools.”

Isn’t that what affirmative action was intended to do? Or, do you have a better plan?

Jose

July 23rd, 2010
11:20 pm

No lie scout, it started with Roosevelt and continues to this day. The slaves that were given their freedom and had to work their butts off to make it and yes, they still faced severe prejudice but they endured. What happened to that generation? What happened to the generation that went through a depression 10x’s worse then we have it now starting in the late 20’s? Our government has made us depend on them for almost everything we need to survive and who pays for it? All of us hard working people. It’s a damn shame but, we idiots are to blame for this mess. We let the jerks take us over. Shame on us all.

Ronald Jc

July 23rd, 2010
11:21 pm

@Scout – I can’t “Lighten up!” Why are these 80 year old black women a “special group?” Sounds like affirmative action to me. LOL! Seriously, you sound like whites that claim they are non-racist because they have a couple of black “friends” yet those same friends have never been to their home or them to theirs, or gone on vacation with them, or gone to church with them, etc.

If you really want to hold open doors for black people, then hire a qualified black person or help them get a job through your network. Being extra nice to people that remind you of former nannies sounds like guilt to me.

waterst

July 23rd, 2010
11:29 pm

What to solve the race problem? Get the 80% of black American parents who ignore their kids and teach them absolutely nothing, to start doing their damned jobs.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
11:31 pm

Ronald Jc:

Well, sir you obviously don’t know me or I you so you really shouldn’t opine like that but for the record just a very few points:

1) I would have died for my black buddies in Nam and they for me (USMC)
2) A black teenager used to babysit my twins
3) My twins used to go spend Sundays with a wonderful black couple from our church
4) Our kids have had black friends spend the night
5) I have had close black neighbors
6) The of the best bosses I ever had were black
7) I serve in our church with black brother deacons
8) I have had many black friends in our home for fellowship, etc.
9) I spent 34 years in an occupation where I gave a “leg up” to black applicants (but I am very conflicted about that
10) In that same federal law enforcement organization my black brother agents had “my back” and I theirs
11) I have wept at many black funerals
12) I could go on and on but I hope you get the picture

Ronald Jc

July 23rd, 2010
11:32 pm

@waterst – “What to solve the race problem? Get the 80% of black American parents who ignore their kids and teach them absolutely nothing, to start doing their damned jobs.”

80%, where did you get that number? Do you even know how many Black parents there are? And did you mean to say “want to solve” instead of “what to solve?” Sounds like your parents needed to teach you something also.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
11:32 pm

waterst :

You have “the” key but I don’t know how to turn it in the lock ……………. sad.

jarvis

July 23rd, 2010
11:33 pm

Poor people wouldn’t be poor if they weren’t so damned stupid and/or lazy.

One of my grandfathers was a ticket taker at a bus station for 50 years. His father was a farmer on another man’s land.

My other grandfather was a dock worker in Savannah for his entire adult life. His father was a louse and a drunkard.

Only three generations later, my children have no idea what it is like to do without. Why is that? Did my family get handouts? No, we worked hard to better ourselves.

Only slackers and dumba$$es continue to have nothing generation after generation.

Beleck

July 23rd, 2010
11:36 pm

Christ lived in a time similar to ours, with a Government,Romans, who took everything just like today.
Voluntary! My eye!!

when is it voluntary to allow prejudice and abuse to another human and not do something.
do unto others is not a Voluntary admonition. none of the evil by neglect is permissible if you follow Christ’s golden rule. such hogwash is just an excuse. if you follow Christ, he tells you help those less fortunate, as in lest for God there goes me or that parable.

there are so many admonitions about helping those less fortunate than ourselves. that i wonder. how these people can call themselves Christians when they opt to pick and choose what parts of Christ’s message to believe in and follow. Call the liars out.

he who is without sin, and all are God’s children. and all those wonderful platitudes that are hardly practiced. just outright fear turned into nothing resembling Christ’’s messages.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
11:43 pm

The Bible also says, “if a man will not work, let him not eat.”

Jesus had the ability to feed the entire world ………. why didn’t He?

BTW: as a member of our church security team (yes, we have had some problems) I give cash money out of my own pocket to people who come by in need almost every week.

Scout

July 23rd, 2010
11:44 pm

Beleck:

Have you ever read that study that was done on people who win big in lottery? I mean hundreds of thousands, millions …………..

The great majority withina few years are right back where they started or worse off.

That’s what we are dealing with here.

Ronald Jc

July 23rd, 2010
11:45 pm

@Scout – congratulations on doing your part in race relations, but many others do not have the advantage of being in a situation like the military and understanding that we all bleed the same. I am still a little confused about your being “conflicted” about helping blacks get jobs. Were they qualified? Do you get conflicted when you help your white friends? You made this statement….

July 23rd, 2010
11:15 pm

Jose:

“Our government system of taking care of people has ruined generations of families and wasted Trillions.”

2 things. Many people think that the only people the government “takes care of” is black people, and secondly, what do you suggest? Should the government stop taking care of people through Medicare, Medicaid, Unemployment Insurance and Social Security? All Government programs?

Beleck

July 23rd, 2010
11:47 pm

yes, i have known some lazy “good for nothing” people who deserved what they got. and they chose that path for reasons i will never understand much less know.

the idea of calling God’s children some lazy assed good for nothing piece of @@@ must be a really rewarding concept of the society we live in. to think we have chosen to throw away “humans” who are not “good enough” for our “reality.” is a really nice way to view the world. those that can and those that wont. and do away with those that wont. no matter the reason.

they are just doomed to be discarded like a piece of trash for the trashman. such values of inherent worth are just a mirror of those who think that way. and besides why would i let someone (who doesn’t “put out” or make it in society) keep me from helping those that really need it.

we are to do what we can in spite of those “losers.” i certainly think society is worth more when we put more into it than take out. you get what you give. there will alway be those scum suckers, just a part of the spectrum of who people are. i am not going to let them influence how i value people who really need help and are deserving of that extra bit.

throwing the whole society out for the errors of a few is not a good model for society to even begin with. and who decides if “you” are worth saving. what goes around comes around.

phil

July 23rd, 2010
11:48 pm

Cynthia- You are 2 for 2 this week and I’m really digging the fact that I’ve agreed with you AGAIN. I love the article you linked to and love the idea. This is a great idea to heal the racial divide in this country between whites and blacks. I come from a poor (very poor) white family and the kind of thing Webb is saying strikes a chord with me. Its not cool that I had to pay 100% of my college tuition, while some black and hispanic kids (with equal or lower academic success from my high school) from much wealthier families got full rides. Lets end race-based preference programs for good and let the healing begin.

Ronald Jc

July 23rd, 2010
11:53 pm

@ Beleck – you sir, are one of God’s children. Great words.

Beleck

July 23rd, 2010
11:55 pm

well, i don’t think starving people is a good thing either.if Christ said to let people starve, well i have to rethink the idea of Christ being Good. additionally, there is only so much any one can do for another. but we must do what we can. and know when to say when. just not have a society say who can and cannot be helped.

the whole Voluntary thing is so skewed. if you can’t help, fine, but don’t stop those who can. no one has the right to force their beliefs on others, sadly, in America we must Believe or leave! this way or the highway.

people are people and money only get in the way a lot of the times. Money is a form of power and power corrupts absolutely. so rich people and or sudden wealth is a devil’s trick. very few can survive the “pull” of power. and Congress is proof of that.

Beleck

July 24th, 2010
12:02 am

i didn’t choose to be born in the South and live during the Civil Rights Era. i just saw a lot of people yelling at each other over this and that. and many years later i see the fear has just been used as a tool to manipulate and use this side against that side.

pure political abuse. the fear is still being used to scare whites against blacks and blacks against whites, rile the locals, keep them stirred. the FEAR is still as strong as ever. so,shall we continue to scream and yell and bleed again and again.

amazing to think all this time has gone and still the “Fear” is running things amok.

Scout

July 24th, 2010
12:04 am

Ronald Jc:

1) By “conflicted” I mean in an effort (mandated by Headquarters) to hire certain percentages of employees I found myself “going with the program” and at times recommending less qualified black males over more qualified white males, or less qualified black females over better qualified balck males, etc., etc. just to make the proper percentage. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now.

2) And while I am at it I have something more to say and to get off my chest.

Most white liberals see everything by race and have never been close enough to a black person to be “tight enough” to tell black and redneck peckerwood jokes to each other and laugh yourself silly, or be willing to risk your life for each other, or swap backwash from a warm canteen of water or whatever !

Do you remember the scene (I would show it but Ms. Cynthia doesn’t allow attachments) in “Full Metal Jacket” where the machine gunner is telling his black buddy in the squad “I hope you die of cycle cell!” and the black guy is saying something like, “You cracker, I hope you ……… whatever” ?

Most liberals (and maybe you too) have no concept of that kind of relationship. They’re all fluff when it comes to race, no substance ……….. and frankly it makes me sick !!

phil

July 24th, 2010
12:05 am

You are right, Beleck. But lets be clear about something- Fear is used almost exclusively as a tool against white people, not a tool used by white people.

Rich

July 24th, 2010
12:15 am

All you have to do is look at the ugly, negative, responses, here, to realize, there is still a need for affirmative action. Racism is alive, and well, apparently, even today.

MAC

July 24th, 2010
12:18 am

Eliminate all diversity programs for anyone with a net worth over $500,000 . Period.

Scout

July 24th, 2010
12:20 am

Headline: “Ousted ag official finds new cause – “We’ve gotta get beyond this black vs. white issue,” Shirley Sherrod says.”

So why did she call me a racist (a Republican who opposes Obama’s health care plan) ?????

Scout

July 24th, 2010
12:21 am

Rich:

Did you read my 12:04 ??

MAC

July 24th, 2010
12:22 am

And eliminate any diversity based designations (DBE, MBE, etc. ) when their net worth crosses $500,000. So you don’t get grandfathered in for more diversity designated business because you once started under the threshold.

Net worth qualifiers for college admissions also.

Scout

July 24th, 2010
12:24 am

Headline: “Chelsea Clinton Wedding Price Tag Could Reach $2 Million”

Ah, those filthy rich liberals ………………

Scout

July 24th, 2010
12:24 am

P.S.

I wonder how many poor people that would feed ?

Ronald Jc

July 24th, 2010
12:31 am

@Scout – Let me ask you this. Were all the blacks less qualified? Did you try to find some that were? If you didn’t hire them, would any minorities gotten hired at your business? Also, how did those people work out? Being able to tell each other racist jokes and not get all out of shape about it is good but it still doesn’t help people get jobs. Those racist jokes are told in offices all over Georgia anyway.

I find it funny that some of the same people arguing against AA will go to Athens on Saturdays and scream for “less qualified” black football players and beg for them to come to their school as long as they are helping UGA win. Same concept. As long as blacks are helping this country win it is ok. (i.e send them to war in the name of democracy and then come home to country clubs they can’t go to) As soon as Blacks say, hey shouldn’t we get to own teams and coach too, it is a problem. They are told, you are “not qualified” to coach or play quarterback.

Ronald Jc

July 24th, 2010
12:38 am

@Scout -did you wonder how many poor people Sarah Palin’s wardrobe during the election would feed? Did you wonder how many people Jenna Bush’s wedding costs would feed? Did you wonder how many people the Republicans kept from being fed when they delayed the unemployment extension? Stop trying to justify your bias. I know you and your kind, as long as they are the “right kind” of Black they are cool. Truth is, you are afraid that a black man might actually be more intelligent, work harder, and deserve more than you and you want to prove that unless they play by “your rules” they don’t deserve it.

Ace

July 24th, 2010
12:41 am

“Honestly I think women are probably still discriminated against more than black men.Women still consistently make less money than men-many studies have shown”–

Maybe this is true because men are responsible for paying for alimony, child support, etc, etc

Ronald Jc

July 24th, 2010
12:43 am

Well, goodnight all, I am off to play golf. Yes, Tiger Woods isn’t the only one. Be afraid, very afraid, I am coming to your country club soon!

Scout

July 24th, 2010
12:50 am

Ronald Jc:

I’ve stated my case and stand by it. Thanks for the discussion and your input.

P.S. It’s not a racist joke unless you believe the person or race you are joking about is genetically inferior. Can you not get that through your head?

Insensitive ? Maybe

Racist ? Nope.

Adios !

Scout

July 24th, 2010
12:53 am

Ace :

No but in large part it is because men in general (with exceptions) have the physically harder, tougher, more dangerous jobs.

If the job is the same they should be paid the same.

But a secretary does not necessarily derserve the same pay as a “hot powerline” pole climber.

Scout

July 24th, 2010
12:54 am

Ronald Jc @ 12:43

Fine. Just leave the chip on your shoulder at home. We’re tired of seeing it.

Bawney Fwank

July 24th, 2010
12:57 am

Cindy you’re constantly projecting your deep racial bias!

Scout

July 24th, 2010
1:03 am

Headline: “Sen. John Kerry skips town on sails tax”

What hypocrisy !!

JMS

July 24th, 2010
1:07 am

Cynthia,
Out of a desire to look at both sides of issues, I find myself reading your column on occassion (usually once or twice a month on Sunday). For the most part I find that you are fixated on race, specifically anti-black discrimination. I think your point of view is myopic, and that people of your ilk (including Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc.) perpetuate the race card for your own gain. If not for the actions of you and groups like the NAACP that profit from racial discrimination, our country would make huge strides towards equality.

Once "Recent" Reader

July 24th, 2010
1:16 am

There was a poster who indicated everytime he/she does this (disagrees with liberals) or that (disagrees with Obama Administration) . . .etc, then they are “considered racist”. Unfortunately the non-stop pushing of this type of thinking by ONE major “news” station and many right wing bloggers seems to have done the job. This administration, for better or worse, seems to try harder than any before to veer away from bringing race into the discussion and tries to stay on topic. I’ve watched, read, watched, read this non-stop attack from the Right. I even read a post where someone brought up the “Black Panthers” instead of correctly identifying the “New Black Panther Party” . . . .which actually is nothing more than a handful of whackos that NO ONE would know about nor care about if it had not been for Fox News making them out to be some major Black group. It is really hard to believe the folks that watch that show don’t understand what they are being fed . . . .but also pretty easy to believe many of those that watch that show LOVE what they are being fed.

Scout

July 24th, 2010
1:19 am

JMS:

…………… and you forgot she might not have a job.

Scout

July 24th, 2010
1:21 am

Once “Recent” Reader :

You know what I think? I think you went to sleep and the “body snatchers” got you !

Once "Recent" Reader

July 24th, 2010
1:25 am

Does anyone know if Glenn Beck apologized for saying Van Jones was a convicted Felon and spent 6 months in jail . . . .both Not True. Does anyone know if Hannity et al apologized to the Acorn guy in CA that got fired as he listened and asked questions to the “alleged pimp/prostitute” about their plan to bring in underage illegals for brothel . . and was lambasted on Fox News for helping them . . ..when in fact he called cops immediately after? They never brought that up later. Now I get to see them backtrack from their vicious attack on Sherrod on Monday and now asking questions like “did the Admin act to fast”. Crazy, crazy, crazy . . . .. but they are real good at twisting anything – even them making fools of themselves – to attack the Obama admin. No conscience there.

MikeB

July 24th, 2010
1:26 am

Back in 93 When I first arrived in Atlanta I went to a party with a college buddy of mine who is African American. The majority of the attendee’s were also…….. I am White.

While at this party another party goer thought he was going to make a name for himself at my expense by bringing up the concepts of affirmative action and race……… A small crowd gathered round to witness what they thought was gonna be a white guy getting a verbal beatdown at the hands of a stylish charismatic young proud black man……..

What they got was a lesson they should have learned long before coming to this party….. :Never judge a book by its cover”. You see my grandparents escaped genocide at the turn of the century from Armenia by way of Syria, Lebanon, France and Cuba…… They landed on this continent with just the shirts on their backs……. Nobody gave them a govt. program to get started with….. They just came and worked their azz’s off to have the hope of a future. They wound up owning a very successful business on one side of my family, while my grandfather on the other worked for an industrial company for close to 40 yrs, and retired with the gratitude of his company and honor of being trusted/valued employee.

So you can see that while I am White, I and my family owe black people in this country nothing other than if they are qualified for a position I am hiring for, then they get a shot at it just like everyone else. For this young man to tell me I owe him and people like him reperations without first investigating my background, reminds me of the Sherrod fiasco from this week, and how most are too lazy to do proper due dillegence.

This is the example that is set for them in D.C. by the farce we know as President Obama…. Sherrod case no DD, BP…Too lazy to really investigate….Not closing Gitmo as promised….No transparency in govt. as promised… This is not how forward progress for all citizens happens. I don’t car that he is mixed race… I do care that he got elected with many more unkept campaign promises than any President in memory. I do care that though he has never worked a real job in the private sector, with his lack of working experience he thinks taking money I earn and buying votes with it in the form of programs for other people is a better use of that money than what I who earned it, would use it for……. And never mind that for all his inexperience and failures, he has way to much ego for the mistake he has made. These are the things that should be focused on….The color of skin is not a failing…….. Unkept promises, redistribution of $ for votes, Chicago thugg politics, dishonor to the office, traditions and protocol that all POTUS’s have before have been a steward of, our naive foreign policy….. Those are things to focus on,

This is why this country is so screwed up today….. Everyone covets what the other has, but nobody really wants to roll their sleaves up and get after it. They just want a program from the government to make everything ok, and they will vote for whoever promises them this pile of dung.

I am proud to say that my grandparents who endured similar discrimination upon arrival in America never looked for a handout. They learned English abided by the rule of law that existed and contributed to society by hiring employee’s supporting their communities and churches, and paying there fair share of taxes along the way.

I humbly suggest that this is the example people should look to emmulate, but if folks did the govt would not be the influence in peoples lives that it is trying to be. And that is a shame that will continue as long as the power elite in D.C. keep accumulating power. Vote em out… Get to work…. Keep the money you sweat for…. That will fix much in this country.

Once "Recent" Reader

July 24th, 2010
1:31 am

Hey there Scout . . . .been reading the back and forths with you and others. I know it’s an easy target for non-conservatives . …but I do like mentioning the things I hear on Fox. Listen, I really actually liked watching them during the Bush administration . . . .although they were still biased towards Republicans . . .I did think they were a bit more fair and balanced. But even you have to see how much that has changed. It is nothing more than a channel that is so anti-Pres. Obama that they’ll seem to stop at no Low to get at him. Come on – they make it seem like the “Lame Stream Media” doesn’t want to tell the public the True Stories . …..well that New Black Panther Party poll thing really says a lot about them. They showed the same clip of those two guys standing out there over and over for days. This group got more press than they ever could have imagined. There are so many wing-nut groups out there that would love the attention. New Black Panthers were and still are nothing – about two dozen folks or so . . .at least before all the Fox press. Now they are the new Boogey Man. Hilarious.

Once "Recent" Reader

July 24th, 2010
1:44 am

MikeB . . . .nice post. But don’t get too confused by all the hostility and screaming that has been going on the past few years. You might want to take a look at what Presidents raised the deficit the most over the past 30 years or so. President Obama has done NOTHING to increase Equal Opportunity – or Affirmative Action. No matter what it may sound like in all the noise . . . . there have far and away been more tax cuts then less. We can disagree with the current deficit . . . . . but notice folks were a lot quieter when huge deficits were being created by massive tax cuts that greatly benefited the top 2 % income wise, by a War that was SO unneccessary and reasons for it so totally manufactured. By bills such as prescription drugs that were NOT payed for. Yes, there is spending going on now – but I still clearly remember 2007/2008 and the initial bailouts that folks were happy to see as they were quaking in their pants watching the 401Ks dwindle. I hear just as many folks say the Health Care Bill will result in large savings as I do those who normally bash the President say it will bring up costs and hurt Companies. All I know is the Companies . .mine included . . . .are all doing very well profit wise right now. They are also sitting on loads of cash. When they decide to unleash it . . .. .if they do . . .things will change pretty quickly.

Bill Clinton

July 24th, 2010
2:07 am

Cynthia Tucker’s intelligence is a myth. Racist.

Once "Recent" Reader

July 24th, 2010
2:37 am

Ex Pres Clinton . . .. . .it seems the only real Myth these days is that there can be a truly fair and rational discussion about race relations. I’ve never seen such xenophobia . . . . ..of course I didn’t live in Germany from 1933 – 1945 either.

A CONSERVATIVE

July 24th, 2010
4:54 am

Due to political correctness on the left…which you take advantage of….conservatives are assumed to be racist…w/o any evidence…whatsoever..The left uses RACISM as a weapon of choice..

A CONSERVATIVE

July 24th, 2010
4:57 am

.. Cynthia Tucker is a myth…. SHE IS NOT A REAL PERSON nobody can be as far left radical as she is made to appear…..

rickeybobby

July 24th, 2010
5:26 am

Being a middle-aged white guy who is honest enough to admit to have benefited from “white privilege” in the past, I must say that times really have changed. Later in my life I am finding that in these difficult economic times, I really don’t see anyone receiving many priviledges! In my humble opinion, this time right now is our true test as Americans, and after serving 23 years in the military, I assure you we will not stand unless we are united!

Lil' Barry Bailout

July 24th, 2010
5:46 am

More Democrat fascism on display:

CNN Anchors Fawn Over Shirley Sherrod, Ask If She Wants Breitbart’s Site Shut Down

Friday, July 23, 2010

It wasn’t exactly a media-friendly question. CNN co-anchor Kiran Chetry asked Shirley Sherrod on Thursday’s “American Morning” if she wanted another news outlet to be shut down entirely – Andrew Breitbart’s website, to be exact. “Would you like [Breitbart's] site to be shut down?” Chetry asked Sherrod. Sherrod answered yes, “that would be a great thing.”

Sick of your babble

July 24th, 2010
6:00 am

Liberal policy of entitlements and affirmative action have done more harm to blacks than anything short of slavery itself. We now have generations of people who are willing and happy to let the government give them what they need. White entitlement… We now have government sanctioned Black Entitlement but you will not acknowledge that will you Cynthia? I for one am sick of you and other quasi black intellectuals spewing your propaganda adnauseum.If you want something work for it and quit bellyaching because Whitey did not give it to you!

Reality Bites

July 24th, 2010
6:00 am

Ms Tucker, as a native Atlantan, i will say that what you have done to the paper here is a disgrace. subscription rates are declining yearly in no small part due to your columns. If cox would get a handle on things and realise that most people that read, (notice I said read), are suburbanites who dont go downtown for fear of being mugged, they would fire you and put a center-right editor in your place. I think you know this as well. Have a blessed day.

jhc

July 24th, 2010
6:05 am

Liberals will say that, “We are all in it together.” We are not. If we were, EVERYONE would pay taxes. When is the “poor” going to do their part? When are blacks going to do theirs?

T-Town

July 24th, 2010
6:47 am

Gee, I missed the pity party.

Angry white male

July 24th, 2010
6:55 am

Blacks need to stop blaming this generation of white males for slavery. If you find your lives here as ‘African Americans’ so repugnant and disadvantaged, head on back to whichever land you call home(Obama needs to go first). I would never refer to myself as a ‘German American’. I’m simply proud to be an AMERICAN!

ghostwriter

July 24th, 2010
7:03 am

Whites and other European immigrants were never the beneficiaries of government programs? Stop it! You’re killing me!
1. Scandinavian immigrants were given large tracts of land to farm in our northern states.
2. Italian and Irish immigrants could vote in elections without the benefit of citizenship.
3. Cuban immigrants were given jobs and welfare upon arrival to south Florida.
4. Whites could commit crimes against blacks without the worry of proscecution (see Ms. Sherrod’s father).
5. Whites had freedom to travel in the work place to improve their positions while blacks faced sundown laws.
6. White criminals could not be arrested by black police officers.

ghostwriter

July 24th, 2010
7:11 am

I find it interesting that some right-wing wackoes (not conservatives) like to link President Obama to his African ancestry and perceived negative steryotypes (witch doctors,etc). What other president was subject to this? Was Presdent Reagan linked to his Irish heritage and equally repugnant negative steryotypes(IRA terrorism, excessive drinking)?

Regular Tess

July 24th, 2010
7:20 am

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here about the whole thing.

As a matter of fact you are never very concise. Just like to stir the pot I suppose.

DJ

July 24th, 2010
7:20 am

It’s very interesting to hear people talk of hating affirmative action and say that it’s not necessary today. Let me help you try to understand the purpose of my rationale with a casual race discussion with my white manager while I was a business consultant (I’m a black male)…. While sitting at a table of 5 people (2 black men, 3 whites) He stated to me that he thought black men were lazy and looked for hand-outs. First thing came to mind was “this is what he already feel about us in an interview before having spoken to us (black men). Chances of acquiring a job through him as a black male… slim to none. Also, has anyone pointed to the fact that across all socioeconomic classes and salary levels during this recession, blacks have been let go faster than any other race (last hired, first hired). Now that could suggest that blacks are just not as good employees as other races, but I’d be interested to see the facts behind the assumptions.

Dan

July 24th, 2010
7:20 am

Even if you accept the premise that whites were all immediately placed ahead of blacks in all things. That simply gurantees a place or ranking in society of 11% not exactly privilege. This is one of the biggest perception difference in the race debate. True in the past, blacks were kept down, but the opposite that whites were raised up is not true its simple math

joeybiden

July 24th, 2010
7:34 am

Enter your comments here

joeybiden

July 24th, 2010
7:36 am

Ms tucker, how about a column on the number and reasons why there are so many “missing” black fathers?

jessyejacksonthe3rd

July 24th, 2010
7:39 am

can you pls give some specific examples where Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Andrew Breitbart are “racist”? and for the record, Breitbart did show the video where ms. sherrod stated she had learned something from her own racism….

Donna P.

July 24th, 2010
7:43 am

Leave it to a Progressive Liberal to discuss race; it usually means that ALL Republicans are racist. How do you explain African-American Republicans? Are they uncle Toms to you Cynthia? You are pathetic just like President Obama about racial issues in America. Get over your blackness. Quite frankly, no one cares what race someone is. In the end, it is about someone’s character not their skin color.

Ted

July 24th, 2010
7:44 am

There was a time when affirmative action was needed. 25 years ago, we were still in the wake of the civil rights movement. However, I find it disingenuous that these programs still exist in a country where a person of color has been elected to the highest office in the land. Where people of color occupy government offices from the very top, right on down to the very bottom. Where people of color make up some of the highest paid people in the professional sports world, entertainment world and general business world.

Anyone now arguing for affirmative action is no longer arguing for equality – they are arguing for privilege. If Dr. King was alive today, he’d be at the tip of the spear in speaking out against affirmative action.

ghostwriter

July 24th, 2010
7:49 am

How is this for white privilege?
1. Old black women gets shot and killed in her home during a marijuana raid yet our govenor and former U.S. Attorney General hold town hall meetings in white communities for meth users.
2. Black teenager gets locked up consensual sex while blond bank robbers are ogled and given a slap on the wrist.
3. White “barefoot bandit” is idolized, offered movie deals, hero of folk songs, etc. while … oh never mind.

average mr. c

July 24th, 2010
7:52 am

Ha! Fair and equal terms and or landscapes are a myth. always have been always will be. gov. intervention only makes things worse. period.

ghostwriter

July 24th, 2010
7:57 am

DJ @ 7:24 am
I had a similar situation where a co-worker told me that blacks make to much about slavery, that slaves were happy, and if anything, slaves “owed” there masters for room and board and for protecting them. I told him that if that were the case, Casey Dugard, the girl was kidnapped at 11 years old, raped and forced to have 2 children before she was discovered after 18 years also “owes” her captive for the same reasons.

barking frog

July 24th, 2010
8:10 am

ghostwriter; excellent example, also she wasn’t forced to do hard manual labor
and her children were not sold. she would have been one of the slaves with a
“good master”.

barking frog

July 24th, 2010
8:29 am

slavery was a government approved, government enforced, government supported’
government protected institution. only black people could be slaves. anyone could
own slaves even free black people. a black woman in texas at one time was the
largest landowner in the state and owned 500 black slaves. Indians could own
slaves and did. Thus the venue for recompense is reparations from the government
that enslaved them not just white people.

Not Racist or Prejudiced

July 24th, 2010
8:51 am

@Scout
You just won’t admit what people are thinking. It isn’t really that hard to figure out since the average racist isn’t that smart. It is their belief in their superior status, perpetuated by societal ignorance, that makes them racist. Look-up the word so that you understand and properly use the “correct” word. Perhaps you don’t know what you think you know. Do you even understand racism as a system? Ponder on that for a while.

Jose

July 24th, 2010
9:22 am

Ronald JC, only people who look at every issue by color, and I think you do, think that whites think the governmnent only takes care of blacks. It is an issue that knows no bounds by color. Racism is never going away because people like you see everything black & white. Just like Sherrod did and through her most recent statements still does. And this President will make damn sure the 2012 election is a powder keg built on race. He knows he will not be able to win on the issues.

Richard

July 24th, 2010
9:42 am

Sorry CT- hit the blog and and to hit the road. I thought “no child” was Bush’s way to assimilate with the lower income. Another DC “product” with no real intention of true best practices to ensure the best result possible. We all tend to get stuck on how to structure our way into the best platform for education such as teacher student ratio, more computers, etc. I was using cutesy as ineffective.

verboten

July 24th, 2010
10:11 am

Ah, another day, another race-based cut&paste blog entry from CT.

Kamchak

July 24th, 2010
10:15 am

Ah, another day, another whinging post about cut & paste.

Mr Right

July 24th, 2010
10:16 am

Don’t we need affirmative in the NBA ? Those poor white players don’t get the jobs because they are white. It just isn’t right!

EDDIE SAULS

July 24th, 2010
10:30 am

We as a people”the black people exspect to much from a people who live and breathe race and color
WHITE people go to bed with race and color on their minds and they awake in the morning with race
and color on their minds. That is all they know they live it it is part of their DNA they can’t help it the mire sight of a black person enrages 75% of WHITE Americans and the other 25% pretend race do not bother them. IMBUED

RF

July 24th, 2010
10:42 am

@jarvis: “Poor people wouldn’t be poor if they weren’t so damned stupid and/or lazy” Really?? You should do some reading on poverty and what it does to a family after generations. Do people rise up out of it? Of course. All of us can point out family history to prove that. Each generation strives to have better than the one before it. The thing you have to remember is that there are just as many examples of people who work, strive, and never get out of it. It’s not so simple as “get a job”. The working poor in this country work far harder than most of us who have time to post on this blog but can’t cross into middle-class. The rich want it that way. Keep them working and making just enough to survive. They don’t want the middle class to grow because then some will try to move up. You should talk to the working poor or read about how differently they view our world. We see opportunity because we’re taught to see it. Many are not, and need our help to see that they can move up out of it. They need education and job training, not just a handout of money.

Jack

July 24th, 2010
11:04 am

It really doesn’t matter what opinion you might post here, if it doesn’t fit Tucker’s narrow, selective views, she will attempt to label you as a know-nothing: a rather sophomoric attempt at that.

Scout

July 24th, 2010
11:52 am

Cynthia ! Cynthia ! Cynthia !

Well, well, well ………….. I just heard old Roy Barnes will be in South Georgia come Monday and just won’t be able to be here for “Che” Obama’s visit to Hotlanta and the Democrat fund raiser. How sad and how convenient !

HA ! HA ! HA !

Scout

July 24th, 2010
12:15 pm

“AND SO HE BOWED”

Cedric R10&12

July 24th, 2010
12:19 pm

You think it should be based on class, Cynthia?

The jigs up on dem principles, “sister”.

class: A social stratum whose members share certain economic, social, or cultural characteristics

I say tomato, you say, with your elitist nose in the air, TO-MAH-TOE. It still equates to minorities, blacks and hispanics being the most prevalent on the poverty scale. What will the dems do to help us? Not a g*damn thing. You need us where we are. Without us, you dems have nothing to maintain your political power.

THE JIGS UP!

DO YOU READ ME, “SISTER”?

UP YOURS!

Alatsea

July 24th, 2010
12:46 pm

“Today’s political and civic climate includes a host of loud mouths who are not interested in a rational conversation about race. Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Andrew Breitbart come to mind”.

CT, Are the “loudmouth,s only on the right?
What about, Kieth Olberman, Ed what ever his name is, Rachel Maddow, Al Sharpenton, Jesse Jackson and the hate monger Rev. Wright, who uses Jesus to hide behind as he spews his hate for the white man. All dims need to climb back into their hole and stay there.

You are part of the down fall of printed media, you lie, twist, malign the truth to suit your needs. What you do is no different that what Brietbart did to Sherrod. Which was wrong but the left media does it everyday, there is no integrity in what you do anymore. And keep that “opinion writer” spiel to yourself, we know that is the excuse you hide behind to write your left wing garbage, Diversity is dead along with the NAACP and not far behind the printed news.

Kamchak

July 24th, 2010
12:53 pm

All dims need to climb back into their hole and stay there.

Isn’t it time for you to be swabbing the deck instead of blogging?

Maria

July 24th, 2010
1:21 pm

Did anyone actually read the article that Webb wrote? He was questioning affirmative action privileges for non-white immigrants who’s family did nothing to help build this country. He NEVER said anything about taking it away from the descendants of American slaves. He just questions affirmative action for African, Latin American and Asian immigrants who voluntarily came to this country.

And he is correct. It’s a great injustice to expect a 12th or 13th generation American to take a back seat to some newly arrived immigrant solely because of skin color. Why should the son of a rich African dictator or a Latin American oligarch get special privileges that are denied to the great-great-grandson of someone who is buried at Gettysburg?

Tony

July 24th, 2010
1:40 pm

Eddie- you don’t know many white folks and perhaps think too highly of yourself thinking other folks really have you on their mind.

wb smith

July 24th, 2010
5:11 pm

For Mr Webb to start down this road tells me he don’t understand the situation, Understand Blue Dogs Democrats, are Republicans with a few ideals. America is fast getting to the point where we cant afford this Stupidity, any longer out of our public officials, and its time for the south to start putting serious people in office. We’re like the the crazy uncle living in the basement. And we cry when other make fun of us. Ms Tucker fight a good fight but she needs help, We as liberal must learn how to engage and win the water cooler wars that’s being fought everyday in this country. That means getting on top of the issues, Not dropping you head every time some knuckle head call you a LIBERAL, learn the issues of the day and get ready to do battle, start showing up at the meeting and making the point that we liberal/progressives will speak truth to lies, truth to partial lies, truth to power.

Gman

July 24th, 2010
5:25 pm

A WHITE WOMAN without a college education being seriously considered for the governor of Georgia is a perfect example of “White Priviledge”. CASE CLOSED!

wb smith

July 24th, 2010
5:31 pm

Maria that the case i hear Limbaugh make, Why should Micheal Jordan s kids get special treatment because they’re black. When some poor white kid get overlooked, We see if Micheal Jordan kids are going to school under affirmative action, or is this just another lie. I’m sure you Have no problem with George the dummy getting into Yale, because his dad and granddad went their, Looks like affirmative action for the rich, Or is it all about money. Lets face it the power elite will keep us fighting over scraps as long as we allow it,

Linda Buisson

July 24th, 2010
7:51 pm

Cynthia, thank you for straightening up the Shirley Sherrod story (Times-Picayune, New Orleans, 7/24/10). Good work on the fair, balanced, and true, “Back story makes her message stronger.” No one can live comfortably with hate, yet scapegoating and blame seems to be a part of the human condition. Thanks for helping us grow-up.
Linda Buisson

A "Voice"

July 24th, 2010
11:02 pm

Poor isn’t indicative of just blacks. . . although you would never know it . . . because when blacks like Ms. Tucker speaks about “poor” . . . it is implied that she is only speaking about blacks. Quite honestly, I’m more than a little tired of hearing about the “inner” city poor blacks. There is more done for the “inner” city black children than any other group of children. There is poor in rural areas and not just black. As far a privilege whites . . I am white and I grew up poor . . H-e-l-l-o!

SouthernGal

July 25th, 2010
8:04 am

I am 61 and still waiting for my “White Privilege”…

Dave from GT

July 25th, 2010
10:00 am

It is Mr. Limbaugh and Mr. Beck to you. I have never heard them once call you Cindy!!!!!…. Cindy.

Avenger

July 25th, 2010
10:44 am

southerngal. ” I am 61 and still waiting for my “White Privilege”…” If you haven”t recognized you “White Privilege” by now, it is obvious that you wouldn’t recognize it even if GOD handed it to you. Surely – you aren’t that disgusting.

Avenger

July 25th, 2010
10:57 am

voice. It AIN’T about you. This is not about individuals. It is about a group of people that was forced into poverty because their government passed laws that ensured their poverty. If all you are is “a little tired”, be thankful that you are not a citizen of a country like Iraq. That failed evil government caused another country to come in and try to met out justice. Evil deeds have evil consequences. In life, there are some things that you don’t get “do overs”. You just have to pay the price. Your little tireness is a small price to pay.

Scout

July 25th, 2010
11:43 am

Ms. Tucker:

I’m not sure if you are aware of this but the first “legalized” slavery recorded in the Colonies involved a slave by the name of John Casor. The court ruled that his master (Anthony Johnson) did in fact own him for life. Mr. Anthony Johnson was himself black and a former slave.

(You can look it up in Wikipedia and many other sources as your website won’t let me post it here)

In addition, American heritage, vol 441, “Selling Poor Steven” states that 3,775 free blacks owned 12,740 black slaves. Frighteningly, the story also outlines how free black women “owned” their husbands, free blacks sold their children into slavery, and absent free black slave owners “leased” their slaves to plantation owners.

Now, my question to you is, if reparations are ever made, what PERCENTAGE will African-Americans have to kick in ?

JGa

July 25th, 2010
12:09 pm

The problem is that America has become so blinded and ignorant that they can’t see through the smokescreen. I witnessed “white privilege” all my life. Our society has become so gullible that if you are accused of anything and you go public by saying “I’m sorry” it makes all good. Get caught been racist pull out your one black friend and say “See, I’m not racist” and everybody believes you. I just saw Nathan Deal’s ad that has him with his two grand kids, so that is going to change my mind about you because you create a “likable” commercial? I run into older white folks all the time that do not say “Excuse Me” to colored people but yet caught them saying it to their white counterparts. America is currently ran over by racism and you can see it everybody of course you will have to be of color or ethnic background to experience it as white people never will!

ghostwriter

July 25th, 2010
12:17 pm

Scout, thanks for the input and the tip. As a black American who, on the one hand, thinks that white Americans don’t really understand the long term economic impact of past discrimination, your story is why I don’t believe in “punishing” the innocent with reparations.

sailhardy

July 25th, 2010
12:40 pm

In mentioning the Bush family as part of a white elite, Ms. Tucker is accurate, but why not include the Gore family or the Clintons or the Kennedys? Does the word “elite” not cling to Democrats, too? And, of course, there is such a thing as an African-American elite. Look at the Reverend Jesse Jackson and his Congressman son. Or the Kings. Or…but the point that Ms. Tucker and Senator Webb make is real. There are many people in this country who could use a boost, and many who don’t need a boost, but are getting one, anyway. The President during his election campaign pointed out that affirmative action penalises people who have done nothing wrong. This is true, and his Administration should be in the forefront of attempting to find a way to help disadvantaged people of whatever colour, race, religion or ethnic background have an equal chance for opportunity. This might well involve spelling out what constitutes disadvantage and attempting to help those whose lives have been disadvantaged.

Mr Charlie

July 25th, 2010
1:17 pm

I believe the story of Barack Obama pretty much proves everyone in this country has limitless opportunity. How do you dispute it?

Avenger

July 25th, 2010
1:35 pm

Scout. Your double talking gives your true color. ‘ I’m not sure if you are aware of this but the first “legalized” slavery recorded in the Colonies involved a slave by the name of John Casor. The court ruled that his master (Anthony Johnson) did in fact own him for life. Mr. Anthony Johnson was himself black and a former slave. away.’ What in the sam hill does this rare case has to do with the systemic racism of America’s history. This is classic doubling talking – take a mole hill and try to turn it into a mountain. “Now, my question to you is, if reparations are ever made, what PERCENTAGE will African-Americans have to kick in ?” Classic double talk – analogous to saying a head ache and a 45 slug in the head is the same.

Mr Charlie

July 25th, 2010
2:10 pm

CT, if we are going to talk about families of white priviledge, how about the Cox family? The ones that have given you a job hanging out in DC to cut a paste a few “articles” each day. That kind of makes you a beneficiary of white priviledge too, ya think?

Mr Charlie

July 25th, 2010
2:15 pm

Avenger, I never owned a slave, nor has a member of my family tree.

So would I pay reparations?

If it can be argued that I should because I benefited from a system that allowed slavery, how about Barack Obama?
Oprah?
Jesse Jackson?
Magic Johnson? Etc, etc. etc,

Since they to have benefited much more that I did from the same system ?

Beleck

July 25th, 2010
4:16 pm

as in “Forrest Gump,” stupid is as stupid does. wonderful excuses for hating the other, accusing the other of privileges.

just shows how ignorant we are of the social systems we live in and under. the preset way of thinking, believing and acting. how well we accept our part in the greater society we are born into.

the ability to step back and see things from another’s point of view. walk in someone else’s moccasins, so to speak from an American Indian point of view.

i can see there is so much invested, too much invested for most to dare step outside of the box.
and shows how easily 19 arab men can be used to destroy the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

too bad for America. i guess it’s day is over now that the Rich have so completely got the Whites and the Blacks fighting each other for the remaining 20% of the “pie.” While the Rich white Republicans stole it in the name of “STATES RIGHTS.”

the only solution i see is for Secession. these Southerners are so hate filled. Shame i was born a Southerner when all the South seems to stand for is hatred of the Black getting Government help for years of White enforced Slavery. never able to let the bitterness go. afraid of being blamed for being White and that Particular Institution.

once again that small Elite using “race” to steal everything from the poor whites and the poor blacks.

gosh what would the Elite do without that “Peculiar Institution?” how could they con the white into helping scam the whole Country without the black/white fears. i guess we’ll never know, will we?

the Southern Strategy works so well, why even go there, right?

Beleck

July 25th, 2010
4:30 pm

i do also want to include the Democrats in this scam, thank you very much. and you’ll notice they are mostly RICH Democrats. Rich Democrats who help the Rich Republicans continue on with the “fleecing” we are going through.

after all, bigotry and hatred and the Southern Strategy wouldn’t last if those Rich Democrats didn’t help the Rich Republicans “divide and conquer.” after all, We are talking about MONEY = POWER here.

since i’m casting stones i might as well be fair to all of the “Thieves” involved. Republican just perfected the scam, that’s all.

Gator Joe

July 25th, 2010
4:56 pm

Cynthia,
The disadvantages still existing in the Black community, with regard to education, employment, and health are the directly attributable to slavery, Jim Crow, and the continued ingnorance of the connection. A relative few decades of “affirmative” action will not ameliorate centuries of racism and a continued refusal of society at large for social responsibility. America will never be truly great until genuine affirmative action is taken to correct the result of pas,t grave injustices which plagues so much of Black society today.

Avenger

July 25th, 2010
5:05 pm

Charlie. ” I never owned a slave, nor has a member of my family tree.

So would I pay reparations?” Classic double talk. Unless you know some thing that I don’t know, America declared it’s independence in 1776. No other country has invaded it and took over. This government screwed it’s Black citizens with the sanction of the majority of the American people. The government is responsible for the safety ( which people love to say) of it’s citizens. This government completely failed to do one of it’s primary duties. The government of 2010 is still responsible for that failure. You enjoy all the privileges of this government. You don’t get to decide to enjoy the goodies and not share in it’s debts. You don’t get a say in going to war, but you have to pay for it. I am a old Navy guy, I didn’t like it one bit that a penny of my taxes was use to pay for the carrier USS Carl Vinson to honor this bigot, but guess what – I am a citizen of this country. I have to take the good with the bad. This double talk ( I wasn’t born, my parents didn’t own slaves, my grand parents didn’t own slaves, and ect) is meaningless in the big scheme of things – just ask the citizens of Iraq. Their evil government caused them pains that you couldn’t even imagine.

Halftrack

July 25th, 2010
5:08 pm

Affirmative action is legal discrimination against WASP’s. It has been 50+ years since desegregation in schools has been accomplished. Nearly all the public schools are putting out the same kind of student who has to take remedial math & english at college. Affirmative Action as first administrated has outlived it objectives including quota’s that was enforced upon the South or be cut out of any Federal funds for the Southern State. New parameters are now required. DBE companies should have a Sunset time so as to encourage them to become a viable competitor in the market place. Blacks and Whites are now approaching equality of opportunity in the jobs market.

Thomas

July 25th, 2010
5:54 pm

Avenger- hogwash and silly. Your claim is that the Civil Rights Act and countless other acts have provided zero value. Your double talk is such acts coupled with progressive income taxes and other wealth transfer mandates such as the “rich” (middle income) now being taxed on their social security benefits and the knowledge that the “rich” (middle income) will not receive social security is worthless. Also, we are the government- sick and tired of the ignorant speak that the gov’t is somehow different that its people.

Scout

July 25th, 2010
7:35 pm

Avenger:

Hey – I’m glad you chose a .45 ! That’s what I carry ………. Glock Model 30 (.45 caliber). Wouldn’t have anything else !

“AND SO HE BOWED”

Scout

July 25th, 2010
7:37 pm

ghostwriter:

Appreciate the comments. Slavery was horrible. Wished it would have never happened. But reparations will only continue the divisiveness and it can never be implemented fairly.

Kamchak

July 25th, 2010
7:45 pm

Just remember, reparations spelled backwards is snoitaraper.

Scout

July 25th, 2010
8:06 pm

Well, well, well ………. What have we here ?

Headline (Yahoo News) : “Migrants sell up and flee Arizona ahead of crackdown”

Mr Charlie

July 25th, 2010
8:13 pm

Avenger, so you took one sentence out of context and used it as the pillar of your argument. I thought only republicans did that.

So, if I “owe” due to my government failure, as I asked before, does Oprah have to pay? How about Bill Cosby, Labron James? For they too are beneficiaries of this same government and system I am.

How about Shirly Sharrod? She has won millions in a lawsuit, she has also been offered a job as deputy director of the USDA, should he “give back”? Did she earn her rewards through hard work, character and intelligence, or was she privilige in her own right, was she just “given” these things as payback for being discriminated against?

Avenger

July 25th, 2010
8:29 pm

Thomas. ” Also, we are the government- sick and tired of the ignorant speak that the gov’t is somehow different that its people.” You just agreed and validated the fact that I made. People are responsible for the actions of their government, especially if they sanction what it does. If the government is sucessful and prosperous, it’s citizens enjoy the benefits of that. If their government committ evil deeds – guess what -it’s citizens will suffer the consequences. You can’t just enjoy the goodies.

Scout

July 25th, 2010
8:45 pm

Del:

If you’re out there check this out !!!

Headline Article: “The White House responded swiftly and sharply to publication Sunday evening of more than 91,000 secret documents painting a bleak picture of the Afghanistan war, calling the leak “irresponsible” and saying that the source – the whistleblower website WikiLeaks — “opposes U.S. policy in Afghanistan.”

It’s quite interesting to see how LIBERALS squawk when the shoe is on the other foot. They sure didn’t seem to mind when Ellsberg released the PENTAGON PAPERS ON THE VIETNAM WAR now did they ???

WHAT HYPOCRISY !

Avenger

July 25th, 2010
8:46 pm

Charlie. ” So, if I “owe” due to my government failure, as I asked before, does Oprah have to pay? How about Bill Cosby, Labron James? For they too are beneficiaries of this same government and system I am. ” I will try again – citizens living under any government ( whether black,green,white purple,red,or chartreuse) will be held responsible for it’s actions. You are absolutely correct – people are the government. As for Ms Sharrod getting money from a law suit. You do realize that the American system is that if you are harmed, you go to court to try to get justice. As a citizen, are you suggesting that Ms. Sharrod doesn’t have that same right as you?

Mr Charlie

July 25th, 2010
9:01 pm

No, I believe Mr Sharrod has every right that I do, and then some. But was her winfall due to her character, intelligence and hard work, or was she just a person of privilige?

Personally, I think she deserves everything she gets, and I feel most people in this country get what they deserve. I believe about 10% of what happens to you is caused by external conditions, and about 90% is what you do about it. She is exhibit A. Barak Obama is Exhibit B.

killerj

July 25th, 2010
9:14 pm

Gee,old Abe didn,t have a degree,how bout that slam from judge roy to the black sanitation worker?man,he would have to find a way to get rid of his own trash if I had his route.

Avenger

July 25th, 2010
9:29 pm

Charlie. You need to stop listening Beck and Limbaugh. You are stuck on Ms. Sharrod as being priviliged. This is a woman who was part of a validated law suit. The millions were for the whole group. I personally know about this law suit. The discriminatory practices of the USDA are well documented. This is why Vilsack said he fired her so quickly. He knows how rampant discrimination was in the USDA. My 92 year old dad lost his farm during this time. He didn’t take part in the law suit. His attitude was – I got screwed again. What else is new. He and the double talkers have one thing in common – he doesn’t trust the government. Of course (the difference is) he has more than a good reason to not trust the government.

Mr Charlie

July 25th, 2010
9:50 pm

No, I am just trying to determine who is “priviliege” and who is not. I never said he she was, nor do I think she is. You keep putting words in my mouth.

I am just trying to determine what the parameters are, as to who has “benefited” by this system and who has “earned” what they have.

I do have a lot in common with her, I do not trust the government either. I personally perfer less of it.

For the record, I have not heard Rush in 3-4 years, I have watched about 5 minutes of Glenn Beck in the past 2 years. I learn more about what they say and do on this thread to be honest.

Scout

July 25th, 2010
11:10 pm

TWO HEADLINES:

TODAY: More NATO troops will die in Afghanistan as violence mounts over the summer, but Washington’s goal of turning the tide against the Taliban by year’s end is within reach the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs says.

1969: More Allied troops will die in Vietnam as violence mounts over the summer, but Washington’s goal of turning the tide against the NVA and Viet Cong by year’s end is within reach the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs says.

Scout

July 26th, 2010
12:14 am

TAPS !

And don’t forget our President ……………. “And so he bowed”

fleur

July 26th, 2010
1:30 am

fleur

July 26th, 2010
1:33 am

Webb is a phony and a lying hypocrite. He campaigned here in Virginia as a moderate, lucked out when his opponent blew it with a careless comment which enabled Webb to win by the slimmest margin in congressional history -
Webb has voted with obama, Reid and Pelosi EVERY SINGLE TIME…..including that wretched healthcare bill and for Dodd-Frank which is full of quotas and set-asides.
He is a gutless little coward who only Says No to his constituency.
A chameleon.
A hypocrite.
He only looks out for himself.
He has flip-flopped parties several times and always according to how the political winds blow.
This article is a pathetic attempt to reinvent himself as something far more palatable.
It is a joke. He is grooming himself for a re-run in ‘12.
He stumbled into office on obama’s coattails in ‘08 but now that those coattails have been clipped, Webb is trying to court the white vote.
He’s a total creep and will not win in ‘12.

Oliverga

July 26th, 2010
8:59 am

“I’m tired, so tired, just tired, tired”. Those are the lines of Pete Bancini (played by Josip Elic) continually declared throughout the movie “One Flew Over the Cukoo’s Nest”. Though we may have an African American President, The United States inability to contructivey confront he oppressions of racism is liken to that of the Christianity and Muslim beliefs: The both will NEVER see eye to eye. Senator Jim Webb (D-Va.) states that “white privilege” is a myth, and argues for the end of government-sanctioned affirmative action programs. I agree the NAACP at its original conception differs a great deal in today issues, but is still desperately needed.
Bill Dedman: 1989 recipient of the Pulitzer Prize in investigative reporting wrote a series of articles that disclosed lenders making loans to the poorest white neighborhoods of Atlanta, did not lend to middle class or more affluent black neighborhoods. This article ignited a focus on lenders across the nation in 1988, yet as recent as August 4th 2009 Wells Fargo is sued for racist lending practices against people of color.
The elements of racism and oppression are defined by common norms of rightness and often righteousness wherein all others are judged in relation to it and this norm is backed up with institutional and economic power. The United States norm is male, white, heterosexual, Christian and has access to wealth and resources. This norm does not necessarily represent a majority in terms of numbers, it represents those who have the ability to exert power and control over others. The U.S. Congress is defined by this common norm, the criminal justice system which carries out the law which white males predominate in congress create. Then we must look at the percentage of each race that is incarcerated, that is affected by these laws. Lack of representation in the financial institution, churches, syngogues and military. Primary literature and history are taught about the exploits of white men, shown through their eyes. Another major institution is the media, it remains controlled and dominated by white men and their images of themselves. Once economic control is in the hands of the few, all others can be controlled through limiting access to resources, limiting mobility and limit employment options.
The frequently used excuse of suggesting that our resources are limited and blames the poor for using up too much of what little there is to go around is a myth often used when those in power talk about immigration through our southern borders (immigrants who also happen to be people of color). The warning is clear: if you let these people in they will take your jobs, ruin your schools which are already in economic struggle, and destroy the few neighborhoods that are good for people to live in. People are pitted against one another along race and class lines. Meanwhile, those who have economic power continue to make obscenely excessive profits, often by taking their companies out of the country into economically depressed countries occupied by people of color where work can be bought for miniscule wages and profit is enormous for the 10% of the population.
People of color simply don’t have institutional power to back up their being deemed racist. Therefore there is no such thing as “reverse racism”. This is confusing racism with hatred, bigotry or prejudice, and it too must be addressed in order to have a healthy dialog. Yet when confronting those who simply refuse to see the obvious of this much needed debate that is part of the fabric of America, I too feel like Bancini, “Im tired, so tired, just tired, tired”.

George

July 26th, 2010
9:47 am

Americans..black and white keep fighting among yourselves. Eventually all jobs will move abroad, foreigners will stop investing here and we will end up loosing everything.

hahahahahaha!!!!

July 26th, 2010
1:04 pm

That was taken out of context CT and you know it. See, this whole newly invented spin technique by the kooks is actually pretty fun. When someone slips up and actually speaks the truth, or at least the truth in their own warped little minds, all you have to say is “it’s out of context” and all is forgiven.

This is the bed you made last week CT, now you are stuck with it!! LOL!!!!!

Drawing Black Lines

July 27th, 2010
4:10 pm

Cynthia, take things out of context? LMAO!

[...] you to read a few of the reactions out there and judge for yourself. I find myself leaning towards this one from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, but there’s also the Richmond Times-Dispatch article [...]

[...] you to read a few of the reactions out there and judge for yourself. I find myself leaning towards this one from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, but there’s also the Richmond Times-Dispatch article [...]

Tom1

July 28th, 2010
6:19 pm

Cynthia, you seem to be returning to a state of balanced thinking and journalistic reasonableness. Since you and Jay drank the koolaid and jumped onto the Obama bandwagon/stampede without one shred of critical thought of the consequences during the primaries, I had to finally turn my back on the AJC editorial page. But now those consequences of bad judgement from you and the “Fourth Estate” are coming home to roost. But that is a discussion for another time.

What Jim Webb writes about here just scratches the surface of reverse descrimination that has run amoke in this country for years. Just try to be a qualified white manager or director applying for an executive position with any non-profit in Atlanta. You will be actually told up front you are the wrong color.

luzmejor

July 30th, 2010
9:14 am

Something got lost in the shuffle, folks.
Why do we have the idea that only the people who can test the brightest can go to college? Who made this a national competition?

It’s a false idea. While we are arguing over who is the best and most deserving, people who live in other nations are being better educated and prepared for life in the 21st century.

The solution is very obvious. We should put more of our money into education, tax the wealthy more and stop giving so much attention and TLC to businesses that are simply looking for a handout.