Government-hating tea-partiers love their government checks

This is a great country, isn’t it? It’s a nation where libertarian, government-hating, militiamen can collect government checks that allow them the time to denounce the government! So it is with Michael Vanderboegh, an Alabama militiamen whose blog has urged health care reform critics to throw bricks through the windows of Democratic elected officials:

Vanderboegh said he once worked as a warehouse manager but now lives on government disability checks. He said he receives $1,300 a month because of his congestive heart failure, diabetes and hypertension. He has private health insurance through his wife, who works for a company that sells forklift products.

I first noticed this phenomenon back during the Timothy McVeigh era, when he and his fellow travelers denounced the government, proclamed it illegitimate and dutifully marched off to the mailbox to collect their government-issued farm subsidies.
The same thing was evident in the town hall meetings of last August, when white-haired Medicare recipients were outraged — OUTRAGED!! — over the idea of government involvement in health care. Of course, the closest thing this country has to socialized medicine is Medicare.
Apparently, denial is such a strong factor that these tea-partiers have persuaded themselves that the government and Medicare are two very separate entities. And, of course, emotion can overwhelm reason.

Ms. Reimer often wells up talking about her work. “I’m respected,” she said, her voice breaking. “I don’t know why. I don’t know what is so special. But I’m willing to do it.”

She and others who receive government benefits like Medicare and Social Security said they paid into those programs, so they are getting what they deserve.
“All I know is government was put here for certain reasons,” Ms. Reimer said. “They were not put here to run banks, insurance companies, and health care and automobile companies. They were put here to keep us safe.”

Well, “deserve” is an odd word to use if you really believe the only duty of government is to “keep us safe.” But Mrs. Reimer is also wrong on her facts about Medicare and Social Security. They are “welfare” programs; the average recipient receives much more than he put in.
Consider these numbers from the conservative American Enterprise Institute:

This typical person paid around $64,971 in Medicare payroll taxes over his lifetime. Likewise, after netting out Medicare premiums, he’ll receive around $173,886 in lifetime Medicare benefits. The net? He can expect to receive around $108,915 more in benefits than he paid in taxes over his lifetime.

177 comments Add your comment

Granny Godzilla

March 29th, 2010
12:19 pm

AND….they’ll use their “arms” to protect those checks……

Fang1944

March 29th, 2010
12:25 pm

And Michele Bachmann’s family farm received $251,973 in federal subsidies between 1995 and 2006.

Chuck Grassley, the longtime Republican senator from Iowa who warns his constituents of Obama’s “trend toward socialism,” has seen his family collect $1 million in federal handouts over an 11-year period, with Grassley’s son receiving $699,248 and the senator himself pocketing $238,974.

I remember that John Wayne used to suck up a lot of farm subsidies, too.

Micar

March 29th, 2010
12:29 pm

It is hard to say what the tea baggers want. There have been populist groups in our history that have made a lot of noise. George Washington had to deal with such a group in the Whiskey Rebellion. Those folks would likely be part of the tea baggers today. They were pissed at taxes on the whiskey. This current patch though is getting their cut out of govt and just don’t seem to want anyone else to get anything. Me thinks that they are driven by something other than what they claim. If they were not so predominantly gun toting white folks making what appear to be illogical arguments ( I refer to the sign that says Keep Your Government Hands Off My Medicare) calling for violence in the streets, they may be a little easier to understand. As it is, they just look like a bunch like the Whiskey Rebellion folks and we all know what happened there.

Bubba

March 29th, 2010
12:30 pm

Cynthia, you’ve just made a great argument against Medicare. No wonder it’s insolvent. And you think government-run health care — aka insurance reform — will fare any better? The problem is, once you’ve paid into Medicare for a lifetime, you’re going to take advantage of it, regardless of whether you take more out than you paid in. That’s the problem with an entitlement program. Once it get started, it’s impossible to stop.

Betsy

March 29th, 2010
12:40 pm

If you think “tea-partiers” hate the government, you’re really clueless. And I’m still trying to figure out what “cut” I’m getting out of the government. It always helps an argument to slide loose and fast over facts and speak hyperbolically

ctucker

March 29th, 2010
12:41 pm

Betsy, Did you bother to read the post? If you did, you know what “cut” I’m talking about.

ctucker

March 29th, 2010
12:42 pm

BTW, Betsy, I didn’t say you, in particular, were collecting any “cut.” Yet

Granny Godzilla

March 29th, 2010
12:43 pm

Bubba

If you feel that strongly you do not have to accept the check.
That is not impossible.

Micar

March 29th, 2010
12:46 pm

So if tea bagger’s don’t hate the government, what they so riled up about?

kayaker 71

March 29th, 2010
12:47 pm

There’s a huge difference between earning what the government owes you and doing absolutely nothing to earn what you get. Most of us military retired stayed with the system for 25 or more years to earn a retirement income, similar to someone who worked for AT&T for the same amount of time. Many of us began contributions to Social Security in our teens and by the time we derived some benefit from it, already 50 or more years had passed. Over 50yrs of FICA contributions should earn you something for your effort, at least unil it gos broke from mismanagement.
Bottom line, there is a big difference in the “entitlements” you describe. A large number of those who contributed to SS over the years have not had the privilege of collecting a dime from it because they died prior to being eligible.
A number of those tea party protesters that you demonize have probably never filed a tax return for Earned Income Tax Credit and most, no doubt, if retired, have earned what is coming to them.
Quit comparing apples and bananas, Cynthia.

Micar

March 29th, 2010
12:47 pm

Is it just this democratically elected (53% of the popular vote for Obama) government that is riling them up.

Bubba

March 29th, 2010
12:48 pm

After I’ve paid for it for a lifetime? Of course I’ll take it. That’s my point. Such an entitlement is impossible to refuse. But I’ll tell you this: If the government will give me what I’ve paid in SS and Medicare, plus 5 percent per annum — which I could have easily gotten investing it myself — I’d do it in a heartbeat.

Micar

March 29th, 2010
12:51 pm

I understand the paid in thing and earned the benefits and all that. My question is how does that relate to the fact that this country has so many people who do not have access to medical care and should we just ignore that because we have these paid in, earned the benefits thing?

Granny Godzilla

March 29th, 2010
12:52 pm

Bubba

I get your point. Of course you’ll take it.

However, my point is if you really don’t like it, don’t take it.

Is your money worth your integrity?

Micar

March 29th, 2010
12:53 pm

Does the supporting the status quo always result in a reluctance to fix the next problem?

Micar

March 29th, 2010
12:54 pm

Or maybe those who support status quo just feel there is never going to be a next problem.

Dearie Smith

March 29th, 2010
12:58 pm

Ms. Tucker,
Did Martin Luther King check the status of his followers. Could there have been some that accepted assistance that did not deserve it? Some that might have received welfare checks, food stamps, government housing – maybe some ? Did they negate and taint the cause and principles that so many hard working, committed, loyal citizens came out to support.

Please don’t label all tea parties by the actions of a few. I have been to Washington two times ~ never before having even written a letter to my senator or representative. I feel stongly that hand out programs discourage initiative, personal growth, and just continue to prepetuate “poor me” attitude.
If you want to financially support your “down on their luck brothers”, distribute your money and don’t force me to support an even larger number of free loaders.

I doubt Martin Luther King would encourage your Robin Hood mentality.

Kamchak

March 29th, 2010
1:01 pm

Shorter tea partyers—Oh teh stoopid, it burns.

Micar

March 29th, 2010
1:01 pm

All I know is that I would never want to end up in a life boat with any of these ” I got mine” to hell with everybody else folks. When things got tough and somebody had to sacrifice or go overboard it would never be the “I got mine” guy or gal.

Bubba

March 29th, 2010
1:03 pm

Granny, I’ve paid into Medicare for 35 years now. If the government wants to give me back what I paid in and 5% per year interest, compounded, I’ll take it and never accept a dime of Medicare. Right now. But no, I’m not going to give the government 35 years of free use of my money. I may be stupid, but not that stupid.

Micar

March 29th, 2010
1:03 pm

Free loaders must = the sick and the dying according to Dearie Smith.

Micar

March 29th, 2010
1:06 pm

For all you rugged individualist’s, maybe it is time to review some political philosophy. Hobbes, Locke, Jefferson and so on. We have for centuries operated on the social compact theory of government and society. You know the one for all and all for one theory. Now take away this social compact thing and you get back to the law of the jungle, survival of the fittest, might makes right stuff.

Jess

March 29th, 2010
1:07 pm

Cynthia,

Seems the only mention of Tea Party was by you. The Tea Party is a movement based on two issues, taxes, and government spending. They are not associated with religion, do not have a stand on abortion, are associated with no radical groups. It is a two issue movement.

I appreciate that you find this a convienient label for anyone who opposes your precious Obama, but it’s a lie, and you should stop.

As for the medicaid recipent at the town hall meeting. I saw it. He was not outraged, and his issue was that they were taking $500 billion out of medicare, which is a real concern to many seniors.

Granny Godzilla

March 29th, 2010
1:12 pm

Bubba

I think you mean Social Security.

Micar

March 29th, 2010
1:12 pm

Wow Jess, I would never have guessed that it was taxes and spending that were the issues. If that is true maybe they should have been out in the streets in 02 when we were doing 2 wars on borrowed money, or at least later when did a major drug benefit on borrowed money. If it was taxes and spending the party got started a little late. Seems to me they are mad about something else which they don’t want to lay claim to in public. Oh to be around the campfires at night at a tea bagger rally. Just can’t imagine how informative that would be.

Bubba

March 29th, 2010
1:13 pm

No, I mean Medicare. But I’d do it with SS too. In a flash.

Granny Godzilla

March 29th, 2010
1:13 pm

Jess

Are you Tea Party – Grassroots OR Tea Party – Freedom Works/Dick Armey?

ctucker

March 29th, 2010
1:15 pm

Jess, Did you bother to read the post? Vanderboegh didn’t mention tea partying, but Mrs. Reimer, who I also mentioned, is a tea-party activist. BTW, I know there of plenty of folks who oppose Obama’s policies who are not tea partiers. I have never conflated the two groups. One more thing, there were MANY Medicare recipients who attended the town hall meetings and denounced government health care. I don’t know where you got the impression there was just one.

Jess

March 29th, 2010
1:17 pm

Micar,

Their was no tea party in 02, and yes these are their only two issues. The rest of what you said is just drivel.

ctucker

March 29th, 2010
1:17 pm

Dearie, Please define “handout’ program. The common definition seems to be assistance to other people — not to me and mine

Micar

March 29th, 2010
1:18 pm

Bubba, lets put that to a vote today. What do you think the tally would be on getting rid of Medicare and Social Security. I am betting 80/20 against. I only say 20 against because your can get 20 of the population to do anything at any given time.

ctucker

March 29th, 2010
1:19 pm

Kayaker 71, how do you know they never fied for EITC? What makes you so sure?

SouthernGal

March 29th, 2010
1:19 pm

I would gladly forego Medicare if they would not deduct it from my SS.

kayaker 71

March 29th, 2010
1:20 pm

Demonizing the tea party protesters is sort of like killing the messenger. They are advocating for a fiscally sound economic system in Congressional spending, not giving way something for nothing to those who refuse to contribute to our society, getting government out of our lives except where the Constitution gives them a role, eliminating these unfunded mandates to states that are already going broke, granting citizenship only to those who enter this country legally and restoring pride to our country on the international scene. These aims are radical? Most of these protesters cannot stand the ground that Bozo walks on and most anything he stands for. For someone who was going to “bring this country together”, he has been the most polarizing indvidual to hit the White House in the history of our country. We don’t like his image of America. We don’t lke him personally. We abhor his chin in the air arrogance and his know it all posture when he speaks. He exudes a superior demeanor that looks like he is looking down his nose at someone who “just could not possibly understand”. And along with all of that, he assumes that “Nobel Peace Prize” posture which is contrary to everything that he stands for. I cannot wait until this clown is voted out of office and sent back to Chicago so we can fix all of the things that he has done to this country while he writes his socialistic memoirs for his library and ponders why all of those stupid Americans couldn’t buy his arrogance or his leftist plan for “what’s good for us”. November will be a start.

Bubba

March 29th, 2010
1:22 pm

Micar, I’d say your odds are about right, if you’re talking about a public vote. If you’re talking about Congress, the answer is zero.

Micar

March 29th, 2010
1:22 pm

Jess. You make my point – taxes and spending where an issue in 02 but no tea bags – give me a break. And the rest of it Drivel. Really. So they don’t have camp fires in the tea bagger movement. I suppose they don’t clean their guns either.

Jess

March 29th, 2010
1:23 pm

Cynthia,

Did you bother to read my post? I said you were the only one who mentioned tea party. Am I not correct? I have no idea what organizations Mrs. Reimer might associate with. I do know that your lead example was immediately identified as a tea partier, and I saw nothing to indicate this. This is not the first time you have greatly expanded the mission of this group, and I’m sure it will not be the last, but it wrong just the same.

T-Town

March 29th, 2010
1:25 pm

Hmmm, the masses are riled up over this one.

Drifter

March 29th, 2010
1:25 pm

You do have a point. Most of the people who can dedicate their lives to attending meetings and various public gatherings protesting this and that during the day are parasites on the system. The reason people are taking more out Social Security/Medicare is that it’s like a Ponzi scheme…completely dependent on a growing number of people paying into it. If they were investing that money instead of spending it as fast as it comes in, most of us middle class folks working for 50 years would retire as millionaires.

Jess

March 29th, 2010
1:26 pm

Micar,

So Geitner cheats on his taxes terefore all democrats are tax cheats. Is this your message.

Babyboomer

March 29th, 2010
1:26 pm

Kayaker. It the following are facts, your apples vs bananas is just double talk. “This typical person paid around $64,971 in Medicare payroll taxes over his lifetime. Likewise, after netting out Medicare premiums, he’ll receive around $173,886 in lifetime Medicare benefits. The net? He can expect to receive around $108,915 more in benefits than he paid in taxes over his lifetime.” The problem with most government programs is not the program, but people gaming the system. These gamers are not just “poor” moochers and free loaders, but some well to do and some greedy rich moochers and free loaders. If the government does not referee, no one else will. The “best and brightest” using Credit Default Swaps to game the system is a colossal example.

Micar

March 29th, 2010
1:31 pm

Imagine there are a few Republican tax cheats too. So what is your point? My comments are based on what I see at these tea bagger rallies and what I hear about the threats that are being made from the movement. I just love it when the false argument is introduced (tax cheats) to a discussion.

Micar

March 29th, 2010
1:32 pm

It is not the masses that are riled up. Just a mob.

ctucker

March 29th, 2010
1:33 pm

kayaker 71, the Constitution does not specifically mention Medicare or Social Security, but many tea-partiers like them both

DeKalb Conservative

March 29th, 2010
1:34 pm

Where’s the tea party connection here? A little poetic license at play perhaps? If you’re going to make a tea party / militiamen connection, can you at least have some documentation… heck do what many progressive thinking journalists do and just make up a quote and say you got it from an “anonymous source.”

Bubba

March 29th, 2010
1:38 pm

“many tea-partiers like them both”

Are you basing that statement on personal knowledge or on the basis that they take money from them — one doesn’t necessarily follow the other. I don’t have to like the concept of Medicare to take money I’ve paid into it.

ctucker

March 29th, 2010
1:38 pm

DeKalb, As I said earlier, Vanderboegh didn’t mention tea partying, but Mrs. Reimer, who I also mentioned, is a tea-party activist.

stranger in a strange land

March 29th, 2010
1:39 pm

Politics for dummies:
SS, Medicare, Medicaid – entitlements that can never be paid for. What do we do? I know, let’s pile on another entitlement that can never be paid for. What’s that you say – can’t be paid for? No problem – we’ll take it out of the ’savings’ from the other program that can’t be paid for. What’s that you say – there’s no money, and no savings from there? No, problem – it’s just like Doritos – we’ll make more. What’s that you say – still not enough money? Still no problem – we have guns and jails and if we have to, we’ll just force those revolting (adjective) masses to pay even more taxes. Yay, problem solved! That was fun. What problem would you like to see me solve next? I can always invent one. As a matter of fact….it’s getting really warm outside…I better do something about that
Signed, your friend (insert your rep, or senator name here)

Jess

March 29th, 2010
1:41 pm

Micar,

I see a perfect correlation. I do not think all dems are tax cheats, and I know all tea party members are not radicals. Their are millions of people in this movement, and you and your mentor Cynthia have pointed to the activities of a handful to make an invalid point.

Sick&Tired

March 29th, 2010
1:41 pm

Why shouldn’t I write off all tea-partiers as nut jobs against everything involving the government and/or racist? I read on a daily basis (on blogs) that all democrats and liberals are lazy, looking for a handout, stupid, unamerican and don’t contribute to society. And even more so, if they happen to be black.

Also, any person with high moral values will not accept anything that they are 100% morally against. If you do, you are going against your own principals and therefore, you are a hypocrit. You have to step into a government building to apply for Medicare and Social Security; it doesn’t appear in your mail box or bank account by the “Government Fairy”.

Micar

March 29th, 2010
1:42 pm

Let’s be clear here. Tea baggers have every right to assemble, protest and make whatever point they want to make in our free society. They are entitled to put their ideas into the competitive arena, just lite everybody else. It is just when a movement begins to advocate violence to advance their cause that they become a mob. I see a lot of what I would deem advocating violence and gun play, much of it through those who are self anointed leaders of this movement. Yes I am talking about the unelected Beck, Palin, Limbaugh and the rest of the horn tooters such as Bachman although she is elected.

Micar

March 29th, 2010
1:45 pm

If you have millions who fit into the legitimate protest category, then they should be doing something to clean up the clap trap that labels the movement. I have not heard any of this. I only hear apologies and justifications for the clap trap.

ctucker

March 29th, 2010
1:49 pm

Jess, Are you a tea-partier? Is that why you are annoyed? The demographics show that tea-partiers are mostly 50-plus. That suggests many of them are collecting Social Security and benefiting from Medicare. When they start burning their government checks, I’ll write a column. Actually, I’ll write a book.

JP

March 29th, 2010
1:50 pm

I understand the urge to lump all who oppose the constant growth of our government together with the hypocrites and nutjobs out there, as it allows a person to dismiss all opposing arguments. To lump all opposition together, though, is for Ms. Tucker to want the government to take over the AJC and pay her with taxpayer dollars. One can say, “It’s not the same!” The other side will reply, “Of course it is.”

John Birch

March 29th, 2010
1:51 pm

With all those disabilities just think how much he would be getting if he’d just gone to ACORN for a lttle advice!

DeKalb Conservative

March 29th, 2010
1:54 pm

@ Cynthia

I’m still not getting it, but I’m flattered you responded to my post.

Mrs. Reimer has a tea party reference, but no militiamen reference. Also Mrs. Reimer isn’t the lead the militiamen part is. Though both stories do have the government dependency connection, they lack having a tea party connection and no connection between tea parties and militiamen are connected.

While I think we are going to disagree heavily on this, in general most identified tea party folks are not militiamen, not in the least. What is infrequently discussed and recently supported by a Quinnipiac Poll is 55% tea party folks are actually women.

Micar

March 29th, 2010
1:54 pm

I thought John Birch was the big deal when we were worried about a communist behind every corner. Have they morphed?

Bubba

March 29th, 2010
1:55 pm

Interesting fact o’ day: Cynthia cites stats that show an average person paid about $65K into Medicare over a lifetime yet got $173K. Let’s say that person paid in for 65 years – including working years and retirement. That’s $1,000 per year. If that person had invested $1,000 per year for 65 years at 5% interest – a very conservative return – he would have $480,000. I’d say he ‘deserves’ a lot more.

DeKalb Conservative

March 29th, 2010
1:58 pm

Here’s the tea party stats from the March 24, 2010 Quinnipiac Poll

Looking at voters who consider themselves part of the Tea Party movement:
•74 percent are Republicans or independent voters leaning Republican;
•16 percent are Democrats or independent voters leaning Democratic;
•5 percent are solidly independent;
•45 percent are men;
•55 percent are women;
•88 percent are white;
•77 percent voted for Sen. John McCain in 2008;
•15 percent voted for President Barack Obama.

Micar

March 29th, 2010
2:01 pm

Come on Bubba. 5% over 65 years on a constant basis. And what about those that picked the wrong stock or other investment. And how bout those who retired right in the middle of a market melt down. Oh and lets not forget those who would have decided to buy something instead of save for that old rainy day. What you going to do with all those poor folks who just couldn’t plan for the future. You make it sound like all those folks who lived before Social Security were just filthy rich off of their portfolio’s. This argument is the “money grows on trees” argument. My mom said it doesn’t and she was right.

tm

March 29th, 2010
2:02 pm

“This typical person paid around $64,971 in Medicare payroll taxes over his lifetime. Likewise, after netting out Medicare premiums, he’ll receive around $173,886 in lifetime Medicare benefits. The net? He can expect to receive around $108,915 more in benefits than he paid in taxes over his lifetime.”

How the heck does this stay in business? And we expect that our new heath care plan will reduce the deficit?

Onlinesavant

March 29th, 2010
2:02 pm

Cynthia. I heard a new moniker that I think I will be using from now on to describe the “freedomworks”, “American federation of taxpayers”, Koch/Scaife/Coors/Bradley/Olin funded, “movement” foot soldiers. “teahadists.” I love it

DeKalb Conservative

March 29th, 2010
2:02 pm

@ Bubba – your math is very very wrong. The chances of a person paying into Medicare for 65 years, doesn’t exist, unless they started working at age 0 as a child actor. Also, the chances for 65 years of a person putting in $1,000 a year is very unrealistic. Finally, Medicare was started in the 60’s under LBJ so it potentially didn’t exist for all of that person’s working career.

Cynthia’s stats are very likely correct.

Sick of you

March 29th, 2010
2:09 pm

What is a white hair Cynthia?

gmaye

March 29th, 2010
2:09 pm

I’m sorry when you see a group that is 99% white, how can you take these people serious. I many other groups are out there with these tea Klansmen, Hannity, Rush, Beck are promoting their books and these dumb middle class whites are buying it.
One thing about minorities we would never let people like Hannity, Rush, pimp us.

Sick of you

March 29th, 2010
2:10 pm

Enter your comments here

DeKalb Conservative

March 29th, 2010
2:10 pm

@ Onlinesavant

Just be careful w/ the new moniker. You make it sounds like the FreedomWorks people aren’t there on their own. You know there’s a difference between a FreedomWorks event and a few SEIU employees showing up as foot soldiers to lend moral support / security right?

neo-Carlinist

March 29th, 2010
2:11 pm

dare I say, the tea party types seem consumed with the very concept of “entitlement”. they love steak and hamburgers, but they can’t seem to wrap their heads around the slaughterhouse. their self-proclaimed patriotism is counter-productive and they are no better than the Congressmen (both sides of the aisle) who bemoaned the 2009 “stimulus” bill, but set up photo ops (with over-sized pork checks in hand). oh, and Cynthia, please don’t use the term libertarian to describe these shallow hypocrites. they are no more “libertarian” than they are “patrotiotic”. like the Healthcare boondoggle itself, their actions are more problem than solution.

Bud Wiser

March 29th, 2010
2:12 pm

CTuck says, and I quote: This typical person paid around $64,971 in Medicare payroll taxes over his lifetime. Likewise, after netting out Medicare premiums, he’ll receive around $173,886 in lifetime Medicare benefits. The net? He can expect to receive around $108,915 more in benefits than he paid in taxes over his lifetime.

So Tucker, as opposed to your usual white bashing, why not compare these numbers to the “typical” black ghetto resident, whose total input into the same system may be 1000% LESS than your ‘typical’ person, yet they suck up the same, if not more, benefit of this system, with virtually no contribution?

It is because you left tarded libs always like to compare apples to oranges, always saying that whoever has a dime in their pocket is not paying their ‘fair share’, while the leeches and the suckers draw these systems dry (that would be your crowd, BTW).

Go blow your left wing crap in, say, Washington, where it is much more suited…… weren’t you supposed to be taking some big movin’ on up step there anyway? How is that working out, uh, when is it coming?

Jack

March 29th, 2010
2:13 pm

You can always tell when a liberal & their beliefs are threatened: bash old folks, bash anybody.

DeKalb Conservative

March 29th, 2010
2:13 pm

@ gmaye

Wrong – this group isn’t 99% white. Its actually “only” 88%. Another way of looking at it is that the make up is very similiar to an average town in New England. Also, 55% are women. Funny the types of things women are interested in huh?

March 24, 2010 Quinnipiac Poll

gmaye

March 29th, 2010
2:18 pm

How can you take these Tea Klansman serious? 98% white people. where are the other groups? Hannity, Beck, Rush are making millions off of these dumb middle class whites and poor trash. They are promoting books and these dumb hicks are out there in numbers. The rest of the world are looking at us as a nation.

Hey teabagers there is another world beside America, white Americans are hated thru out the world because of these stupid , selfish, racist red necks. Where were you when Bush was sending all our money to Iran?

Get over it a Black man is President”"”"”"”"”"”"

Scooter (the Original)

March 29th, 2010
2:20 pm

‘closest thing this country has to socialized medicine is Medicare” – a financial albatross hung around our necks by past generations.

Centralized control of the Health Insurance Industry (payers) will be another one we leave for our children.

jconservative

March 29th, 2010
2:22 pm

Jess March 29th, 2010 1:07 pm

Interesting discussion. I have been a “tea partier” since 1981, well before the term was coined a few months ago. What got me started was Reagan and his program to cut taxes and increase spending. Since then every president, with short timeouts under Bush 41 & Clinton with their tax increases, we have practiced tax cuts and increased spending.

Think about it. We cut taxes, which cuts income, and then we increase spending. All at the same time. All with eyes wide open. And then some folks act surprised because there is a $12 Trillion national debt. And it is going to get worse because Obama is doing exactly what Reagan did, cut taxes and increase spending.

The problem can be solved only by cutting spending and/or raising taxes.
It will probably take a combo of both spending cuts and tax increases. But the problem with this Tea Party movement is no “platform” calling for “specific” cuts in spending.

We need about $1.6 trillion a year in spending cuts. If we cut Defense to zero, that is less than half of what we need. If we cut Medicare to zero, that is about half of what we need. If we cut both Defense & Medicare to zero, we can come close to balancing the budget.

So Tea Party – where do you propose to cut?

Sick&Tired

March 29th, 2010
2:22 pm

Bud Wiser,

My suggestion to you: Pay them more money and they will contribute the same as your so called “typical” person. I just hope that they live long enought to collect, because the stats show that many blacks don’t usually reach 65.

Sox

March 29th, 2010
2:24 pm

CT – There is no point in arguing with you…you spin facts to support your case and are clearly biased. I will therefore not buy the AJC and

Sox

March 29th, 2010
2:27 pm

(continued)will vote for fiscal responsibility and small government in 11/2010 and 11/2012. You can keep trying to manipulate your readers but I won’t play your games.

Tommy Maddox

March 29th, 2010
2:27 pm

Let’s see:

Dems receiving government handout? Good; Apple pie; American way.

Repubs receiving government handout? Bad; Deceitful; Unscrupulous.

Allen

March 29th, 2010
2:28 pm

Present value of money (something apparently most Dems don’t understand b/c they are not big on saving….and if you do save, what do you not understand about compounded interest?)….invest $65,000 over 40 years of working and you will more than double the expected $173k. I want gov’t checks b/c it is my money in the first place. Soc. Securtiy is the same. I will never receive what I could have made on my own, so YES I will be in line “collecting my gov’t issued” check when I am eligible.

Scout

March 29th, 2010
2:31 pm

Ms. Tucker:

Yes, and liberal, milktoast, cowards who would NEVER for a multitude of reasons ever think about serving in the U.S. military (especially a combat arms unit) or as a police officer love their government protection.

Now, how about a thread of some importance …………….

Jack

March 29th, 2010
2:32 pm

It appears that this blog is ginning up hatred to groups of people that could lead to violence.

Jimbo

March 29th, 2010
2:38 pm

wonderwhatyouthinkofthis?ibetthekoolaidehelps

Babyboomer

March 29th, 2010
2:41 pm

Bud Wiser. Your bias is fogging your thinking. You and all double talkers are worried about the Lakayishas getting several hundred dollars from welfare while the “best and brightest” have eighteen wheelers backed up to the banks using front end loaders to empty the banks. The “best and brightest” recently brought the most powerful economy (US) to its’ knees. I am sure that you have heard of of credit default swaps.

Jimbo

March 29th, 2010
2:41 pm

From my last post: Jimbo Your comment is awaiting moderation.

hope they put it on, prob afraid to though

Scout

March 29th, 2010
2:43 pm

P.S.

Usually, a liberal, milktoast, mamby-pamby is the first one to dial 911 anyway because they have no knowledge, ability, desire or means to protect themselves.

As Hank Williams, Jr. once sang ………. “A Country Boy Will Survive” !!!

I would post the YouTube version but Ms. Tucker is afraid of attachments.

Dave

March 29th, 2010
2:43 pm

National Survey of 1,000 Likely Voters
Conducted March 25-26, 2010
By Rasmussen Reports

1* When you think about the major issues facing the country, whose views are closest to your own – those of the average Tea Party member or those of the average member of Congress?

47% Those of the average Tea Party member
26% Those of the average member of Congress
27% Not sure

2* Who has a better understanding of the problems America faces today – the average Tea Party member or the average member of Congress?

52% The average Tea Party member
30% The average member of Congress
18% Not sure

3* Who is more ethical – the average Tea Party member or the average member of Congress?

46% The average Tea Party member
27% The average member of Congress
27% Not sure

bird dawg

March 29th, 2010
2:44 pm

The scary thing is that from the liberal perspective if you every take a dime from the government no matter what you did to earn it you are compltetly beholden to the government, and you give up your right to oppose it’s intrusion in your life. In otherword take the governments money and surrender you life to it.

Bubba

March 29th, 2010
2:45 pm

Dekalb conservative: What are you talking about? Are you not are aware that you pay into Medicare even while receiving Social Security? So if I began work at 20 and died at 85, I have been paying in for 65 years. Regardless, Cynthia is the one using the $65K figure. If the guy only paid in for 30 years, that means he’s paying over $2,000 per year. Do the math. It would come to far more than $173k.

Scout

March 29th, 2010
2:45 pm

Dave:

Don’t confuse these posts with facts. As Ms. Tucker has so often stated, this is an “opinion” site.

Just make up any opinion you want and stick with it. She does.

neo-Carlinist

March 29th, 2010
2:45 pm

jcon, you represent a true conservative. you present a cogent argument sans faux-patriotism. too bad your libertarian sensibilities have been shamelessly conscripted by the neo-con crusaders. I bet you read The American Conservative. if not, check it out.

Granny Godzilla

March 29th, 2010
2:46 pm

Scout

are you trying to say there are no liberals in the armed forces?

funny, our armed services contributed more to the Obama campaign than
to his opponent. (google it)

that’d mean there are plenty of liberals who have answered the call of duty.

Jimbo

March 29th, 2010
2:47 pm

Know guns, know peace, know safety.
No guns, no peace, no safety

mrs.w

March 29th, 2010
2:47 pm

Sox-quit your whining and find another blog/community to annoy..seriously grow up.
Jess-your Republican bloggers do the same thing you are accusing Ms. Tucker of doing, so what’s your point?
Dekalb conservative-”I’m still not getting it, but I’m flattered you responded to my post”..did you see this one Cynthia!? I’m flattered, blah blah blah”….SPARE ME…I almost vomited.

Jess

March 29th, 2010
2:49 pm

Cynthia,

No I am not a tea partier. I just hate for someone with a bully pulpit, such as an opinion writer for a major newpaper, to misrepresent the facts. You have no reason to call the people you have written about tea partiers. I would not dare suggest that the anacharist at the Climate change forum represented the view of all who believe in climate change, and I choose to call you on it when you stretch the truth about a group you deplore.

Ray

March 29th, 2010
2:49 pm

Many people use Medicare, not because they think it is great, but because they forced to pay into it for years.

Jimbo

March 29th, 2010
2:50 pm

oBOZO is an idiot – get on with it folks, take action.

Jack

March 29th, 2010
2:51 pm

Well said Jess- the Drudge is reporting violence from Reid supporters at the Palin/McCain event. All trash that serves only for us to take “our eye of the proverbial ball”.

Jimbo

March 29th, 2010
2:52 pm

@ Jess
well put
ct is a racist

Gail

March 29th, 2010
2:52 pm

I am wondering if the $64,971 includes the employer portion that is paid on behalf of the employee? Not trying to be nit picky, but that money should be considered part of the medicare recipient’s contributions to the system since it could have been paid in wages had the employer not been obliged to pay it to the government.

If the government were smart, they would be investing medicare contributions. I calculate that over 30 yrs $64.971 is $2,165 a year. At a rate of just 3% it would be $111, 345 @ the end of 30yrs. And if the $64K does not include the employer portion, well then each medicare recipient has more than paid their benefits received.

DeKalb Conservative

March 29th, 2010
2:57 pm

@ Bubba,

I might be off a year or two, but Medicare went into law in 1965 (might be ‘66). What 20 year old was making enough that year to pay $1,000 in medicare?

Also, the law has only bee around 45 years, not 65.

neo-Carlinist

March 29th, 2010
2:58 pm

Scout, your observation raises an interesting point. are Americans “entitled” to protection DoD, law enforcement, etc.)? I’ll piggyback my comments on BB’s blog; namely, if we embrace the Constitution in terms of our “right to bear arms” and the “common defense”, where does Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and the current boondoggle du jour fall in terms of the “common welfare” provisions as laid out by the Constitution? Not every deployment of U.S. troops is for “national defence” and not every “law enforcement” operation is to “serve and protect” citizens (DUI roadblocks, “red light cameras” and “speed traps” come to mind). I won’t bore you with the entire paragraph, but grab your copy of “Common Sense” and consider that it is the nature of government (from the Department of Revenue, through the Department of H&HS through the Department of Defense) to “…furnish the means by which we suffer…”

Disgusted

March 29th, 2010
3:01 pm

Ain’t it funny how we never heard a peep from these Tea Party people when GWB was running two undeclared wars and paying for it with borrowed money that wasn’t even included in the regular appropriations–just added on as “supplementals”? And I never heard an objection to this writing of checks with no funds in the account to cover them. Then a black man gets elected president, and that’s diffo! All of a sudden we can’t afford health care and Medicare and Social Security, and we simply must cut spending on programs that help people, while ramping up the funding of the war machine.

And they scream about cuts in Medicare, but the cuts are really in Medicare Advantage, the con job of the insurance companies that talked Congress during those Republican years into letting those companies run Medicare programs. The pretense was that “private enterprise could do it better and cheaper.” And then those insurance company Medicare Advantage programs proved to cost 20% more than the regular Medicare program, and they catered to the wealthy elderly who got their own HMOs plus drug coverage plus expensive tests. And once Congress wised up to this scam, all of a sudden we’re hearing cries that Congress is “cutting Medicare.”

Ain’t it funny how the race of a president served as a catalyst for all the outcry?

Dave

March 29th, 2010
3:04 pm

“The “General Welfare” clause gives Congress the power “To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States.” This clause is not a grant of power to Congress (as constitutional law professor Gary Lawson has shown). It is a limit to a power given to Congress. It limits the purpose for which Congress can lay and collect taxes.

During the founding, some Anti-Federalists were concerned that this clause “amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defence or general welfare.” But James Madison, the “Father of the Constitution,” explained very clearly that it granted no power to Congress. If the “General Welfare” clause gives Congress the power to promote the general welfare, then why specifically list the other powers in Article I, such as the power to establish post offices and post roads, or to coin money? Wouldn’t it be redundant to list them?

In short, as Madison argued, Congress derives no power from the general welfare clause, which merely serves to limit Congress’s power to lay and collect taxes. Congress can only do so for purposes of common defense or general welfare, in the service of the powers granted to it elsewhere in Article I.”

Scout

March 29th, 2010
3:06 pm

Granny Godzilla:

1) Of course there are liberals in the armed forces (just not that many except in times of the draft). And even fewer in the “combat arms” (infantry, artillery and armor). Conservatives do most of the heavy lifting. There is a big, BIG difference between a computer programer in the Army and another the exact same age who is a Ranger. They are both needed but it’s totally different service.

2) The “monetary volume” contributed to a campaign and the numerical percentage of liberals vs. conservatives in the military are also two different things and two different sets of statistics. Again, by its very nature, the military (with exceptions) draws conservatives vs. liberals. Conservatives (by their very nature) would probably give less to a campaign.

3) As an additional way to prove my point, what percentage of liberals vs. conservatives do you think own gun permits?

I Report/You Decide

March 29th, 2010
3:07 pm

Cynthia, I have never received one dime of government assistance in my life. Am I entitled to dissent, or would that make me a racist? Thanks in advance.

Scout

March 29th, 2010
3:11 pm

I Report/You Decide:

Be careful here partner. I am as conservative as I can be but every road you drive on, police or fireman who protects you, ambulance crew ready to take you to the hospital, etc., etc. is “government assistance”. You HAVE, ARE AND WILL CONTINTUE to receive government assistance.

All we are debating here is WHERE to draw that line.

DT

March 29th, 2010
3:14 pm

To Gail’s point, are the contributions including the employer matching contribution as well? I believe no one should receive more from Medicare/SS than they put in (employer and employee portions, of course). This is not a retirement fund, it is a “pay/borrow as you go” system (some call it by its financial name “Ponzi scheme”).

This is just another story of the average lazy person who wants the “government” out of their lives but, in reality, is getting far more than they put in.

Have to get back to work and continue to pay for all those who don’t pay ‘their fair share.’

Teabagger

March 29th, 2010
3:14 pm

I want my racist,sexist, bigoted, homophobic….Country back…..

DeKalb Conservative

March 29th, 2010
3:14 pm

@ Disgusted

Not sure who the bigger bigot is, 1) you, or 2) your misguided opinion of tea party people.

You’re essentially trying to equate a holy war (9/11) with the election of the a President. He (Obama) wasn’t the cause of this. The 2006 mid terms was the spark, the real problem came in summer / fall 2008 before the election when the housing bubble hit. What put people over the edge was the stimulus package that didn’t provide stimulation.

T-Town

March 29th, 2010
3:16 pm

Scott, What you said makes a lot of scents for an old white hair like me. Don’t know why you are attempting to convince Granny of anything, you told me a couple of weeks she likes to add to quotes and make things up. When you call her on it, the best she can do is name-calling.

Babyboomer

March 29th, 2010
3:16 pm

Scout. I met a lot of “liberals” while I was in the military. I notice your list didn”t include guys like fat boy Rush, redundant Hannity, reclusive Cheney.

Granny Godzilla

March 29th, 2010
3:17 pm

Scout

Are you one of the Grimm Brothers?

T-Town

March 29th, 2010
3:18 pm

Scout, there’s my point.

Granny Godzilla

March 29th, 2010
3:19 pm

T-Town

Here’s a hug for you!

Granny Godzilla

March 29th, 2010
3:22 pm

Scout

I am so sorry if suggesting you were one of the Brothers Grimm made you sad.

But c’mon, that last post was a fairy tale.

Granny Godzilla

March 29th, 2010
3:24 pm

T Town

Thank you for reminding me to behave better than those folks
who call names…

Scout

March 29th, 2010
3:25 pm

Babyboomer :

I did too during Nam because the draft rate was 25%. Now we have an all volunteer Service and the libs. to conservatives ratio is much lower ……………. and I repeat ……….. especially in the combat arms units.

That may change now that the Army has done away with bayonet training ………….. :o Liberals just aren’t into that.

However: Do you know who I admire the least/most from my USMC era (1966-68) ?

Here’s the pecking order from least admired to most admired:

Conservatives who talked the talk but didn’t walk the walk and didn’t enlist
Liberals who didn’t enlist
Conservatives who were drafted (and served)
Liberals who were drafted (and served – didn’t run to Canada)
Conservatives who enlisted (my category)
Liberals who had the guts to freely enlist in an unpopular war (far and few between but I admire them the most).

Scout

March 29th, 2010
3:26 pm

T-Town:

I know ……….. but she’s a grandmother now and I’m a new grandfather ……… so, I try to be nice.

Tom Middleton

March 29th, 2010
3:29 pm

It’s kind of crazy, isn’t it, Cynthia? They love their government checks and medical care, but hate the president (and party) wanting all Americans to have access to such assistance when needed.

Maybe they’re just confused; or maybe, just maybe their leadership is what’s wrong with their so-called patriotic movement. To paraphrase southern conservative Joe Wilson during a recent congressional outburst, “IT LIES!” :)

Cosby Smith

March 29th, 2010
3:30 pm

Typical Tucker reporting. Hunt for a few and ignore the many. However, do not look at the minority groups that thrive off Government checks, but then they say yse sir and yes ma’am those in DC. Wonder though, what happens when the DC crowd realizes they are broke and checks are not being paid. Wonder where the marches will take place then. Yea, lets pick a few to blame the masses, but only on those that revere freedom and not Government!

Ric

March 29th, 2010
3:31 pm

DeKalb Conservative
March 29th, 2010
1:58 pm

Here’s the tea party stats from the March 24, 2010 Quinnipiac Poll

Looking at voters who consider themselves part of the Tea Party movement:
•74 percent are Republicans or independent voters leaning Republican;
•16 percent are Democrats or independent voters leaning Democratic;
•5 percent are solidly independent;
•45 percent are men;
•55 percent are women;
•88 percent are white;
•77 percent voted for Sen. John McCain in 2008;
•15 percent voted for President Barack Obama.

Compare these numbers to, 95% of blacks voted for Obama!

Which group is racist?

C’mon CT, even you can add!!!

Scout

March 29th, 2010
3:31 pm

Tom Middleton :

If it were only that simple.

O.K. Scout is going out on patrol looking for errant liberals. Check back in this evening ………….

Concerned American

March 29th, 2010
3:33 pm

Cynthia, I keep reading your defense of anything the democrats propose. Give us your ideal view of the America you think we should have. It appears that “cradle to grave” government benefits is your nirvana. I don’t suppose you have any clue where that money is going to come from…printing presses? Do we have to push this nation to a total collapse before the notion that we don’t have an endless supply of taxpayers is evident? Give us your rose colored blueprint of our country while we still have one.

TnGelding

March 29th, 2010
3:35 pm

Social Security wasn’t supposed to be like it is today. Yes, FDR got it passed, but most, if not all, of the major changes came under Republican presidents. Granted, Democrats in Congress initiated the insanity along with various clueless commissions appointerd by it and the presidents. The only benefit to those of us fortunate enough to work for 40 years is it allows us to retire 5 years earlier. Most of us would be just as well off if we could work those additional years and not draw SS. Of course it also provides disability and survivor benefits that are often overlooked.

Bottom line: the protesters are just dupes for the GOP. The federal government is so much entangled in our economy that to cut spending a meaningful amount would cause a long and severe recession. It has to be done carefully over a long period of time.

dlt

March 29th, 2010
3:36 pm

Thank You Dave. Sanity in the middle of Madness! Mozart amid all the Noise!

DeKalb Conservative

March 29th, 2010
3:39 pm

@ Ric

You need to read deeper into the numbers. From what I’ve seen, the majority of the tea party leaders, not at the highest levels in the national spotlight neccessarily, but among local circles, are women. Women, especially in the form of mothers are the ones organizing this stuff.

Since women tend to lean more to the left, and men to the right, this should be alarming.

Some Guy

March 29th, 2010
3:46 pm

CT’s confusing assault on conservatives continues. She loves to paint the few fringe types of the group she opposes with a broad brush while turning a blind eye to the misdeeds of the group she supports. Then she explains why Medicare is insolvent because of gov’t mismanagement. Yet she is a huge supporter of the current health care bill that passed. She thinks the current congresses accounting is better than the congress that passed Medicare BTW with bipartisan support.

CT you are a truly confusing person!

LOL

March 29th, 2010
3:46 pm

You did say he “had” a job and is now getting benefits.. unlike some readers here that never had a job and get checks.. go figure

(disclaimer – You would think the REAL issue with this guy is that he is a militia and nuts, but you keep your talking points going)

dlt

March 29th, 2010
3:48 pm

What’s “diffo” Disgusted is that we now have a runaway Congress and President that’s intent on bankrupting this country! What’s “diffo” Disgusted is that we have a President and Congress with an extreme socialistic agenda! What’s “diffo” Disgusted is that Congress is going to punish you and I for not purchasing a product! What’s “diffo” Disgusted is we have a President who’s mentor was once a member of the Communist party (Frank Marshall Davis). Shall I go on “diffo” Disgusted?

DeKalb Conservative

March 29th, 2010
3:49 pm

As a twenty-something, I have a great disdain for the moocher class that is making it much more difficult to acheive the American dream as it was known in the late 20th century. I have accepted that I will never experience the Social Security “pension,” or Medicare entitlement that my income, and my employers match goes towards. These programs will not have anything left to them for my generation and I think the tipping point is past us.

The person I directly blame for this is G.W. Bush. His inaction on this over the course of 8 years will cripple his daughter’s, aka my generation. Its tough to point the finger at Obama on this. In FDRs day, Social Security started at 65 and you statistically where expected to die at 66. Until we get serious and talk about pushing Social Security to 75, if not 80 effective among Baby Boomers, this program will quickly be exposed for what it is.

Tommy Maddox

March 29th, 2010
3:49 pm

“Our armed services contributed more to the Obama campaign than
to his opponent”? When was George Soros in our military?

George Foreman 3:16

March 29th, 2010
3:56 pm

Scout your 0-1 in War, why should anyone take your opinion seriously…..

Monroe Burbank

March 29th, 2010
4:05 pm

Typical nut-job hypocrites. Sadly, these people are being used as pawns and don’t even realize it. They rage about the people who can help them most and trust the people who care about them the least.

Check out a New York Times article by Kate Zernike, published this past Saturday March 27, entitled “With No Jobs, Plenty of Time to Tea Party. The article profiles a number of people around the country who are fairly high up in either their local, or the national tea party movement. People who just happen to be collecting either social security or unemployment, yet spend most of their spare time organizing rallies protesting government hand-outs. The hypocrisy of these people is astounding, and, unfortunately, they are all somewhat clueless about what exactly it is they want our government not to do anymore.

Granny Godzilla

March 29th, 2010
4:05 pm

Tommy

under Commander Scaife.

Abrazos

March 29th, 2010
4:05 pm

Tea Party people have me awfully confused. Looks like some government programs that sound “socialist” are OK by them. From Bloomberg News, some results from a poll conducted 3/19-22 with a margin a error of +/- 3 (caps mine): “70 percent of those who sympathize with the Tea Party, which organized protests this week against President Barack Obama’s health-care overhaul, WANT a federal government that fosters job creation.

They also look to the government to REIN IN WALL STREET, with almost half saying THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT EXECUTIVE BONUSES. The activists say they believe the government is on a path to socialism, although they don’t see all federal programs in that light.

Fewer than 10 percent say the Veterans Administration is definitely socialist, 12 percent identify management of national parks and museums, and 36 percent say expanding Medicare for the elderly, Medicaid for the poor and Social Security amount to socialism.

Many more, 65 percent, say Social Security is either definitely or sort of socialism. Even so, almost half, 47 percent, want to keep it under government control or aren’t sure about privatization, with 53 percent in favor of privatizing Social Security and Medicare.”

Rafe Hollister

March 29th, 2010
4:13 pm

Sin-thee, can we agree that I will abstain from any government program, Socsec, medicare, farm subsidies, etc if government will cut my taxes by 50%. I think most of the producers in the US would agree to this deal.

Think how much we, the money hoarding, freedom loving, self reliant, selfish, hard working folk, could save over our lifetime if we only paid 50% to state, federal, and local tax hogs. We could take out a high deductible health insurance plan, if allowed to do by Barry, and bank our savings instead of waiting for our $650 a month Soc sec check. Life would be good.

As long as we are forced to pay taxes, a large part of which go to Gov entitlement programs, I am going to try my dead level best to get as much of my taxes back thru these programs as I legally can. I paid in, why shouldn’t i get to avail myself of these programs, as oppossed to letting all the money go to people who did not pay taxes.

Bubba

March 29th, 2010
4:17 pm

DeKalb, quit getting hung up on how long Medicare’s been in existence. The example she gave was $65K. I didn’t make it up. Parse it any way you want, if the contribution was $65K over any extended period of time, it would come out to more than $173K if it had been invested at a average rate of return of 5 percent. If it was over a shorter period, then the amount he was paying had to be higher than $1,000. I was using 65 years to make the math easy. The point is, she was trying to make it seem like they guy was getting more than he “deserved.” That is patently false.

South GA Conservative

March 29th, 2010
4:21 pm

Tucker, you are so clueless. Social security is not a handout program, the payments are supposed to be a return of payments paid over a WORKER’s career. Medicaid is a whole different issue. It is not hypocritical to receive money from a program that the federal government has taken from you to fund.

What IS hypocritical is for you to point out someone else’s hypocrisy while you and Granny and the rest of you liberals cry crocodile tears for someone’s needs and want to meet them with someone else’s money. If you folks want to see taxes raised, you can go ahead and pay higher rates while you are trying to get the government to FORCE the rest of us to do so.

Rita

March 29th, 2010
4:28 pm

Dear South GA Conservative,

The average length of time it takes to use up every bit of the Social Security funds you put into the program is 7 years. After that you’re on the dole and I’m paying for you. You’re welcome.

South GA Conservative

March 29th, 2010
4:28 pm

Granny Godzilla-

Would you please tell me how much money above and beyond the required amount you are contributing to the government for the social programs about which you feel so strongly?

DeKalb Conservative

March 29th, 2010
4:28 pm

@ Bubba

Your math is still wrong and you know it. If you want to discredit it, you could use an example of this as being highly overpaid and then cross reference this with an example of a person that paid into the system for 30-40 years, but died prematurely and never saw any benefits.

The Tar and Feathers Party

March 29th, 2010
4:29 pm

So the moral of the story is: if you have been bought off by a government check, you need to stay bought off, and not criticize the current administration’s proposals? Ms Tucker, that plays right into the hands of the Republicans, who say the Democrats want to make all Americans dependent on the government, the Democratic party ruled government. Personally, I am appalled at the number of people collecting Social Security Disability checks who are still able to organize and protest against the government. Does that effort not prove they are capable of doing some type of work, and therefore should not qualify of Disability? Qualifying for SS Disability seems to depend on doing a contingency contract with the right law firm, rather than being totally and permanently disabled, as the law requires. The contingency contract gives the law firm one third of the persons back payments from social security, and since it takes about 18 months to go through all the appeals, that amounts to 18 to 20 thousand dollars per case. Not bad for a sleazy law firm specializing on cheating those of us still paying social security taxes. I say kick the dead beats off the disability roles, and sue to recover all moneys paid, including the lawyers contingency fee.

The Tar and Feathers Party

March 29th, 2010
4:31 pm

Oh yeah, and dis bar the sleazy lawyers, and all lawyers are sleazy in my opinion.

South GA Conservative

March 29th, 2010
4:36 pm

Rita-

Your comment sounded good until I realized that you probably made up the 7 year number.

I am 52 years old and have paid the maximum social security amount for almost 20 years straight and the Medicare tax on much more than $90K to $100K per year. I doubt very seriously that I will ever see a penny of social security income, and if I do, it will take more than 7 years at the maximum amount for me to get my money back.

At what interest rate do I get to compound my contributions to calculate this amount? And since my grandfather and father paid their entire lives and died at 66 and 63 respectively, do I get to collect their money before I am on the dole, or have you already claimed it?

Tech Fan

March 29th, 2010
4:38 pm

CT definately sounds like a racist.

dlt

March 29th, 2010
4:39 pm

Abrazos, Tea Party people come from across the country, have different perceptions, and different opinions about government just like the rest of us. I’m not sure why that should be confusing. Do think they should be lockstep in what they believe? Nonsense.

Some are more conservative than others. Some more radical than others. But there is a set of core beliefs which focus on a limited Government that is fiscally responsible, Constitutionally limited, and restricts its intervention in free markets.

Sort of the opposite of what we see in D.C. today. Right?

Tax Paying Grandma

March 29th, 2010
4:41 pm

Your rhetoric is old and empty. I am one of many millions whose life is worse off then 14 mos ago. Your emperor has no clothes and now that he is naked, people can see the truth and will voice their displeasure in November. People vote with their pocket book and empty rhetoric ain’t filling mine.

Rita

March 29th, 2010
4:44 pm

To all those self-reliant conservatives who lived 7 years past Social Security age and are feeding at the government trough at my expense: Stick to your principles. Please tell the government you don’t need your welfare check anymore. Above all, get your hands out of my pockets.

South GA Conservative

March 29th, 2010
4:49 pm

“Government-hating tea-partiers love their government checks”

Cynthia, you ignorant fool, you cannot even support the truth of your headline! You know nothing about the Tea-Partiers except what you read and see in the leftist media and MAYBE some anecdotal information. If you hate government waste and abuse, you do not necessarily “hate the government.”

There is a concerted effort to discredit the tea party folks because you and your comrades cannot defeat their ideas.

I suggest you listen to so tea-partiers (even the word “tea-bagger” is a vulgar slang word) and then intelligently discredit their ideas. But when you do, I would think that you civil rights types would respect the right to express one’s opinion through protest.

South GA Conservative

March 29th, 2010
4:51 pm

Rita-

Answer my questions.

You are proving Mark Twain to be truthful when he said “It is better to remain quiet and let people think you a fool than to speak and prove it.”

South GA Conservative

March 29th, 2010
4:53 pm

And Rita dear-

Stick to your principles and pay the government more than the required tax rate to prove your zeal for higher taxes to support entitlements.

dlt

March 29th, 2010
4:53 pm

Rita, if you will get the Government to give me back the money I paid into Social Security, plus the interest I would have earned through investments of MY MONEY, then I’ll keep my hands out of your pockets (which sounds kind of weird to say it anyway). ;oP I tried to keep my money but the government would not listen. They have the military and police force behind them.

uga_b

March 29th, 2010
4:54 pm

Cynthia, when someone takes something away from you, you try and get as much back as possible. These government checks are actually taxpayer redistributions. Hopefully, at some point, these men/women paid in. Dealing with a bad system does not mean you have to support it.

I have noticed this phenomenon for a long time whereby a democrat thinks that all small government people should pay taxes and boycott all services that their taxes pay for.

CabinetMaker

March 29th, 2010
4:55 pm

I’d love to see a financial comparison between someone who was 30 years old in the 1960s, who is now in their 70s or 80s, who worked for 35 years and paid into SS and Medicare all of their adult lives AND someone born into a “live on the dole” family who for all of their life has received Medicaid, Food Stamps, ADC, WIC, Title IX housing, fuel assistance and a free cell phone.
How much did person A pay into the system and how much can they expect to get back in SS and Medicare benefits?
How much did person B pay into the system (LOL) and how much will they get in benefits their entire life?
I see what percentage The Big G takes out of my paycheck every 2 weeks, I have no say in the matter, so yeah, it might be nice to get some of it back when employers have no more use for me. I have always chosen to go to work rather than sit around and play Grand Theft Auto and Madden and make babies with any female I could get horizontal.

Richard Lyon

March 29th, 2010
4:55 pm

It makes perfect sense. Its called “bleeding the beast”. By taking the money, the government is made weaker.

Rita

March 29th, 2010
5:04 pm

Dear South GA Conservative-Sorry, I didn’t see your question as I’m still working on this Monday so I can keep supporting my self-reliant conservative friends. And where did I say I want to “pay the government more than the required tax rate to prove your zeal for higher taxes to support entitlements”? Oh, and do look up the actuarial tables on Social Security. The 7 year statistic is accurate.

this sux

March 29th, 2010
5:35 pm

reading cynthia’s blog and the reader comments are like watching my two children argue over a book. neither one can read, neither one know’s what the other is saying. all they seem to know is that if they say it louder, it must be right.

i have yet to see anyone every agree on a fundamental disagreement in these blogs. it doesnt happen. people just have different viewpoints. cynthia is an ultraliberal. you may not be. these rants are stupid because despite what you think, you will never come up with a fact or argument that is brilliant enough to make people change their minds.

people are just different. enjoy it.

and btw, yes, i often chide cynthia, not just because she backs up her thoughts from other people’s writings, but because she often flip-flops on her fundamental beliefs depending upon who the subject is. look back at what she said about that idiot bush. funny how no matter what he did, even when he expanded the same type of entitlements that obama is expanding, he was doing something wrong and obama is god-like in his intelligence. troop action? please. whereas Bush was chided for being less than sympathetic to those in new orleans, obama has greatly expanded the drone action in afghanistan. the result – a significant increase in the number of civilian casualties. of course, this is all neat and tidy because our troups are not there, and the main stream media doesnt report it. but hey, obama can do no wrong, right cynthia.

South GA Conservative

March 29th, 2010
5:46 pm

Accurate WITHOUT interest, I assume.

maybe if you didn’t have to punch a clock and were self-employed and reliant you could answer the question.

It is implicit that if you liberals want to increase taxes on others (wage earners probably don’t get tax increases) you should be willing to pay more voluntarily. What you want to do is to raise the taxes of the self-employed and management (conservative self-reliant people, by and large) to pay for the programs that you support.

I’m not surprised that this went right over your head. Also, if you knew your facts, you would know that if you provide for your own retirement income, the government will use means-testing and double taxation to minimize your social security and medicare anyway. So that “7 tear average with no interest” won’t apply to your typical self-reliant conservative.

I’m sure that you mean well but if you were better informed you probably wouldn’t embarass yourself with your foolish observations. Be thankful for blog anonymity.

cgatlanta

March 29th, 2010
5:59 pm

I have a little problem with the $64,971 contribution number. They take 15%, 7.5 from me, and 7.5 from my employer. If I average 50K for 20 years (and I expect to work more years than that, and make more), that’s a contribution of $150,000.00. And before you say that my employer’s contribution does count, it does. If not paid to the government, I would/could be paid to me.

wdw

March 29th, 2010
6:08 pm

once again…most of your columns are quotes and ideas (lefty of course) of others…the suck off from others mentality

dlt

March 29th, 2010
6:14 pm

wdw, wow! I’m impressed! ;oP

Drinking the koolaid...

March 29th, 2010
6:14 pm

“All I know is government was put here for certain reasons,” Ms. Reimer said. “They were not put here to run banks, insurance companies, and health care and automobile companies. They were put here to keep us safe.”

CT Totally ignored this comment…which was the point Reimer was trying to make. Tea Party members protest government intervention in industry (of which healthcare is a part). their point being that it is possible to fix problems without the government owning/controlling huge chunks of it…and that when the government does get involved the historical result is that it costs more to do it all.

I’m sure some tea party folks get medicare checks. will they all receive more than they paid in? maybe, maybe not. I can find plenty of people (democrat or republ.) that paid in less than they’ll get and plenty that paid in more…so the “average” person referenced is not statistically possible.

Amazing how it is impossible for most democrats to fathom that some people don’t want the government running everything (because they are so efficient right?), that people want solutions (yes republicans…solutions not rhetoric) that don’t involve so much government intervention (and over spending). But wait…beneficiaries of government programs usually vote democrat right? so maybe democrats DO actually realize this, but want to protect and grow the dependent voter base. A voter base that also “loves their government checks” and votes accordingly.

only 2 pages to the blog so far so CT didn’t stir the pot enough here. she’ll have to choose a more controversial topic next time.

dlt

March 29th, 2010
6:26 pm

I think the intent of liberal columnist like Ms Tucker is to make the Tea Partiers out to be the bad guys, while the true bad guys in D.C. are “remaking” our country into something totally unrecognizable. Its just clever misdirection: The mind has its limits and can focus only on one thing at a time. The magician uses misdirection to effectively manipulate the persons idea of how the world is supposed to be.

While we’re all focused on Tea Bags we won’t notice the trick that’s been pulled off in front of their eyes.

Poof! ;oP

Jan

March 29th, 2010
7:07 pm

Yes, Cynthia precisely why we do NOT need another entitlement program. I couldn’t have said it better myself. And… who better to explain the shortcomings of government health care (Medicare) than a current recipient? I’m sure they want better for their children and grandchildren.

Miller

March 29th, 2010
7:26 pm

Cynthia – right on, these guys collecting what amounts to welfare and railing against the government. It’s simply priceless to me the extent to which they are in denial. Good entertainment value. Looking forward to November’s election.

Scout

March 29th, 2010
7:27 pm

George Foreman 3:16

LOL ! I prefer debate but keep trying …………..

Tommy

March 29th, 2010
7:38 pm

The government in the real world, not in Cynthia’s socialist fantasy world, does not have money to give us. It only takes from some to give to others. Why should we object to getting back what is ours?

Frank Simmons

March 29th, 2010
7:43 pm

`Most people don’t find anything wrong with what they are saying and/or represent but only with what others say and/or represent. When we are made to stop and consider exactly how much we as individuals truly benefit from the system we then shut up and hide in embarrassment ’cause we realize we are truly ahead as a group and not as a single person. I just want my taxes to be spent efficiently on something really worth it’s value. I do know any dollar that’s leveraged with the whole pot advances us all. What would it cost me to fund police protection, fire protection, war, health coverage catastropes, public school, art, culture, good air, water usuage and all if I had to pay it out of my pocket? Wouldn’t the people like to have George W. Bush back in office to spend more of our budget down to nothing again? Or what about his brother Jeb Bush and/or his son young George Bush III? We need them to help lose more of our money for their family who is laughing at all the problems they left behind.

dlt

March 29th, 2010
7:47 pm

Please, if you’re going to fund art and culture (or sports, etc) do so out of your own pockets…not mine!

ATLshirt.com

March 29th, 2010
8:31 pm

isnt it funny that all of these Obama sheeple are so quick to denounce the tea party ?? Obama has spent more money in 1 year… than BUSH did in 8, and you guys have the nerve to question why now ??? tea partiers are fed up with GOVERNMENT period… they spend, they spend, and they spend more… all the while our economy is going down the drain… WE CAN NOT AFFORD IT…

neo-Carlinist

March 29th, 2010
8:41 pm

Scout, a bit off message, but what do you make of the terrorists in OH, MI and IN. the miscreants who allegedly planned to murder a law enforcement official, then set off IEDs at the funeral? should they have been, not read their Miranda warning, and “executed within 24 hours” as battlefield combatants captured out of uniform? in this instance I think I support your position. these clowns need to “walk the walk” if they’re going to talk all there anti-government talk. speaking of which, I don’t like it when the media refers to them as “Christian militia”. they’re neither, and they look like a bunch of paintball wannabes in their camo bdus.

Paul

March 29th, 2010
8:54 pm

Cynthia,

Your hypocrisy is showing (no surprise there).

When the Bush Administration cut taxes on the middle class and mailed out stimulus checks, lefties like you howled “we can’t afford it”. I’m willing to bet that you (or any other lefty) didn’t burn your checks either, much less send them back to Washington.

Rita

March 29th, 2010
9:01 pm

Dear South GA Conservative…wow, I have hit a nerve, haven’t I? You have no idea what I do or where I work, the education I have (I will share that I have a MBA in Finance and don’t exactly “punch a clock”). However, I will dutifully to slog away tomorrow so you can spend another day in comfort spewing platitudes against those of us who keep the economic engine running.

Stan

March 29th, 2010
10:54 pm

Interesting reading all the hate and spew today. Pretty easy to see that is ok to hate when it is I doing the hating. BTW rather obviouse that granny=CT kind of an episode of Lost

Gail

March 30th, 2010
9:22 am

In case anyone was interested, I found out that the $64,971 does include the employer’s portion.

jim in Jackson

March 30th, 2010
9:49 am

Get some facts straight:
Cynthia Tucker did not alude to the entire Tea-party but used two references of which she indicated one was in the Tea-party.
Several people keep making racial stereotypical statements about black people.Fact is that the majority of people on welfare are white.Please show some couth on this site.
Stating that Obama has somehow raised taxes on the middle class is a lie. The middle class got twice the rebate that G.W.Bush gave while the rest were unaffected.The middle class and self-employed will get more tax breaks than the rest of the citizens to encourage more hiring.
The person who raised taxes more than any other president in the last 30 years was Ronald Regan;with G.H. Bush a distant second and Bill Clinton third.
The majority of the debt as it stands now was the result of the last administration that took a 600 billion surplus and turned it into a deficit of which the last escalation was in transition before Obama took over and he diverted more of the stimulous to the rebates and unemployment to slow the recession and stop it before it turned into a depression.He has funded every initiative he has sponsored this year including the healthcare bill without any increases in taxes.
I have been working since I was 13.I waited until I was 67 to retire.If I had had all the money in the private sector as the republican have favored I would have lost 50% just as I did my IRA the last year or so.I enlisted in the Air Force at the age of 17 for FOUR years (scout) and yes I am a liberal.
I think that we have a great country and those who constantly complain about it should consider trying another, if they think ours is so bad.There is a place in South America that is comprised of Southern Confederates who still live in an Antebellam style and appear to be extremely happy. Maybe this would be a good alternative for those who spew such hate and foment such inaccuracies.

Marko

April 2nd, 2010
7:51 am

Nice hit piece with facts contorted to suit your need Tucker. And you all sit around and wonder why the AJC is going down the toilet.