With their mojo back, Senate Democrats move to tame Wall Street

Our elected officials got us into this mess, now we’re hoping they will lead us out.

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T-Town

March 23rd, 2010
7:58 am

Yeah, they were the ones originating loans to consumers they knew couldn’t repay them and issuing AAA ratings to junk.

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“They are reminding bankers that can pass signifiant legislation without GOP support” (Spell check is your friend CT)
And on this you are wrong. You think that since Obamacare passed the Dems can push through anything. They passed a Senate bill that was voted on before Scott Brown was elected.

Congress screwed up the economy, not Wall Street. Freddie/Fannie enabled the housing crisis that brought down the entire market. Read the facts and stop looking for partisan answers to shovel to the masses.

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We shouldn’t forget to take a step back every now and then and look at the big picture.
This financial reform initiative–like Obamacare–is just another battle in the war being waged for this nation’s heart, mind, and spirit.
Are we finally beginning to understand that Obama’s progressive manifesto calls for the destruction of all existing national systems and the rebuilding of new ones in the progressive mold?
Anyone with a functioning brain stem knows that Obamacare wasn’t about providing healthcare access to those who don’t have it. He doesn’t care about those people. He just uses them to distract us from his true objective: Dismantle the existing healthcare system and establish a progressive healthcare system.
And anyone with a functioning brain stem knows that this so-called financial reform isn’t about protecting us from the mean ole bankers and Wall Street executives. It’s about dismantling the country’s existing financial system and establishing a progressive financial system.
He’s doing–or soon will be doing–the same thing with every American system.
Supporters of the Obama Administration–and the progressive movement in general–fall into one of three categories:
1) Stupid: They believe whatever Obama et al tells them to believe even when they have little, if any, actual comprehension of what it is they’re being told to believe.
2) Liar: One of the chief tenets of the progressive movement is the mantra that the ends justify the means. Those in this category are devotees of–and well versed in–progressivism goals and values. They have no problem with lying because they believe that those opposed to their efforts don’t deserve the truth anyway…that the people they are taking from only have what they have because they cheated and abused other classes and races of people to obtain them.
3) Stupid and Liar: Most, not surprisingly, fall into this category.
There’s something even more significant at the core of the progressive v. non-progressive war. Many are reluctant to broach the matter for fear of offending someone. It’s time to cast that fear aside.
Our war, first and foremost, is a clash between Judeo-Christian values and principles and secular humanism (i.e., anti-Judeo Christian values and principles).
This nation can have only one operating philosophy. I believe that philosophy must be Judeo-Christian. It was the philosophy the nation was founded upon. It’s the philosophy the nation must retain if we have any hope of seeing America blessed by God again.
Note the differences between the two. The Judeo-Christian mindset is grounded in an eternal perspective. It’s about making decisions and judgments on behalf of America that are in accordance with what is right and wrong in the eyes of God.
The secular humanist mindset, on the other hand, is grounded in a temporal perspective (i.e., the here and now). It’s about making decisions and judgments on behalf of America that are in accordance with their own worldly ideas of right and wrong.
Proof?
Look no further than at who assembles under the Obama banner: pro-abortion advocates, gay marriage activists, anti-Israel/pro-Palestinian partisans, one-world government supporters, socialists, communists, no-border immigration proponents, terrorist rights champions, global warming freaks, etc., etc., etc.
Obamacare’s passing is a stark reminder of just how far downward this nation has spiraled.
But it has also made it more clear than ever who my enemies are.

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Reality@815
Thanks, I’m still laughing.

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@schrutebeets: Look in the mirror. Thy enemy is thyself.

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Reality@819
LOL…. Stop, you’re killing me!

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I got out of the market in 2005. Revamped my 401K contributions in 2007. I got a mortgage at a great rate, I’m debt free, and well prepared if – God forbid – I lost my job.

I did this on my own. I didn’t trust the advice that Wall Street – and Congress – was providing, I sensed the meltdown before it happened (though it did take longer to happen than I thought it would), and I took my investment life into my own hands.

That’s America. It doesn’t matter who’s selling the snake oil – be it Barney Frank or Bernie Madoff. It’s up to me – and each of you – to decide if it’s medicine or watered down whiskey. Congress won’t solve your problems. Wall Street won’t solve your problems. Be responsible for yourself.

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Interesting to note the differences in Jethro and Granny Godzilla. I would assume Jethro will be thriving and happy while Granny Godzilla will still be looking to DC for help.

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Ron

Well, I guess that old cliche about assuming would be proved true by your post.

Bray much?

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Joel

I think his soft spot never closed.

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Granny Godzilla
Thanks for confirming that. On target, Ron. Fire for effect.

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Reality, Joel Edge, Granny Godzilla:
“…and God gave them over to reprobate minds…”

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In the next 3 months I will 20-30 previously un employ(able) individuals who are literally “dying” to get to work and make a difference in their own lives. These individuals will have full health care and benefits. They include individuals missing arms and legs but make it up in heart and desire. There will be 95+ retention rate and will be loved and appreciated by their managers and coworkers.

Granny- let me know if you would like to discuss soft spots more-

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How interesting, a straight party vote. I guess only the opposition is going to be bi-partisan.

That is as long as the King, Obama Le Roi, will allow opposition.

He has already decreed that he will not campaign for non-supporters. I think that is good news for those candidates, the King’s track record in campaigning for others is 100% – they all lost.

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The most effective way to rein in Wall Street fraud is to vigorously enforce EXISTING laws against fraud and harshly sentence the people who break them.
1. Mandatory minimum sentences: 25 years for financial fraud that cause a victim(s) losses at a certain amount. More losses through fraud, the more mandatory time.
2. Hire as many federal agents (FBI?) with a background in forensic accounting as needed. Pay them well, and task them to go after the people who are committing the crimes. The goal here is to jail the Madoffs when they are young and the losses are smaller. It makes a little more sense to me to sentence a young Madoff to 75+ years in prison when he commits his first (and only) crime as a free, rather than catch him when he’s in his 70s with a 150 year sentence.
3. Stop these silly ‘civil enforcement actions’ from the SEC. They can only fine the perpetrator, but he’s still free to do it again. You commit fraud, you go to prison.

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Let’s take a minute to look at this:

granny’s friend

March 23rd, 2010
9:10 am
granny godzilla…arent you late for picking up your welfare check?

Somebody who posts here doesn’t have the ovaries to use the same name or names they normally use to post their opinions and has got nothing of value to add.

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@Granny Godzilla
I often think that all of these crazy posts are made by the same individual that simply changes their name/handle…. possibly some republican PR person getting paid minimum wage?

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@Joel Edge 9;29
To which belief do you refer?

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@Acer – Dude, you sound like you may have some interesting points, but the way you wrote that post is impossible to understand what you’re saying. Re-try?

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Granny- I, for one, will defend you on the personal attacks. We will all learn more (from each other) with more of a civil attitude. It is amazing what a calm and meditative mind can do-

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Reality

“Clinton may have started the deregulations, but it was during Bush’s term(s) that it became extreme.”

This like saying Clinton started the forest fire, but Bush fanned the flames so it’s more his fault. It appears there is plenty of blame to spread all around.

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PUBLIC SUPPORT, if you call having college kids and people who do not pay taxes as public support. Then we are all in trouble!

“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.” -Jefferson

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Acer706,

Totally agree. The real battle for Health Care was within the Democrat party. Think of it this way, the opposition was bi-partisan, the support was only the democrat, a divided democrat party is not one the swaggers, but limps

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@T-Town and quod erat: You are “straining at gnats” here. The point is that we need those financial regulations back in place NOW.

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NYorker

“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”-Unproven! This quote was not found in the Jeffersonian Cyclopedia but several people have attributed this to Jefferson. This is still under investigation.”

From the website: The writings of Thomas Jefferson – Truth and Unproven.

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T-Town

March 23rd, 2010
8:08 am

Some of them. The boys on Wall Street got into the game big time, I think in 2004, and spread the toxic debt worldwide.

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The country was dying. It’s being revived.

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Reality,

While it is necessary for financial regulations to be in place, having the Gov’t draft new regulations causes me some concerns. Case in point: many states have enacted regulations to corral in “Payday Loan” companies that were charging 28%-50% interest. Legislators drafted new laws with little thought to the wording and these PL companies used loopholes to now charge up to 300%.

Tackling VAST problems with half-VAST solutions is what the Gov’t does best.

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TnGelding,

Not just some, but many of them. The big boys on Wall Street just took what the Gov’t was giving them, because life was good and no one cared. It was only when the house of cards began to fall in do we seek to find blame.

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Fannie/Freddie/CRA—SQUIRREL!

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Joel Edge:
I just realized that, in my 9:09 post, I inadvertently lumped you in with Reality and Granny Godzilla. My apologies.

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@T-Town: ’tis my understanding that the push for financial reform is simply to reinstate the regulations that were in place before – not to create “new” regulations.

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Granny Godzilla

I see that we need a fainting couch for the pearl-clutchers here also. Still got that old army cot?

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@Joel Edge – I challenge you, here and now. Post a solution to any social issue of your choice. A real solution to solve a problem. You can pick poverty, healthcare, joblessness, education, whatever you like. The only condition is that you don’t use any labels for people of any sort. You cannot make false claims to describe a person or group of people (lazy, stupid, etc.).

Your solution must be viable and cannot be simply ‘pie in the sky.’

It must be a solution that can be enacted to make a difference. You cannot solve joblessness by simply stating that “those lazy people must just get a job.” You need to create some action to create those jobs.

Challenge made!

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The financial giants on Wall Street and the bankers should be allowed to do whatever they want with their own money. The problem with financial markets is that the tycoons are playing with other people’s money. With no skin in the game, the whole thing has become a gambling casino and the get reckless. All those who argue for a free market have blinders on. There is nothing free about a market where the tycoons are in a I win, you lose world working with other people’s money to begin with and are backed up by public money as a last resort. It is kinda like Jesse James hitting the train and then getting a government subsidy if the take from the train was not good enough.

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Do we want to protect Jesse James or put some constraints on him?

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schrutebeets

did you get your degree in “classic Obama parrot-sheep-sellout”
at the University of East Beckistan?

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Always amazes me when folks argue for the application of free market principles in a game that is so rigged that moral hazard is rampant in the tycoons. Can’t plan the tycoons, if you are going to let them get away with murder, they might as well go for it. It would be unrealistic to expect them to have any sense of integrity in performing their fiduciary tasks when not one holds them to any standard other than that of the river boat gambler.

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The trouble with Geithner, Dodd and that scary looking dude from Alabama, (Shelby) is that they have been part of the game for so long, it is hard to imagine how they are going to come up with any real rules that will actually protect folks. I mean Geithner was so involved in the process that led to this mess as head of the NY Fed, that he has to be worried about covering his own tracks. I would like to see folks like Stiglitz, Volker, E. Warren and Buffet put in charge of fixing the mess. They are not in bed with the tycoons so much.

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@schrutebeets: I see that the typical name-calling republican in you still exists. Grow up just a tad, for the sake of all.

Yes, finanacial reform is needed. No, I haven’t read the words of any proposal to do so. But, it is obvious that reform is needed.

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Is “Joel Edge” and “schrutebeets” that same person? Inquiring minds want to know….

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Come on T-Town. Always wanted to mix apples and oranges with your arguments. Me thinks the politician have skin in the game. They have to face voters every election. When was the last time you or anybody else out there got to vote on the tycoons.

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Micar,

And, politicians aren’t playing with other peoples money?

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Still can’t find the spelling error, CT???You are in the newspaper biz, facts be damned, but at least spell correctly.

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Reality (re: your 11:15 post)
“Yes, finanacial reform is needed. No, I haven’t read the words of any proposal to do so. But, it is obvious that reform is needed.”
Then why are you supporting it?
It’s the same logic that passed Obamacare and, for that matter, elected Obama.

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T-Town, sure politicians are playing with other peoples money, but you get to vote on who gets to play with it. Just out of curiosity, what would your ideal society of 300+ million people look like with no government.

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@ Keep up the good fight
AMEN! I’m with you 100%!

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@schutebeets 11:27 am
““Yes, finanacial reform is needed. No, I haven’t read the words of any proposal to do so. But, it is obvious that reform is needed.”
Then why are you supporting it?
It’s the same logic that passed Obamacare and, for that matter, elected Obama.”

OMG. Seriously? I clearly stated the answer to your question in my last sentence. Can you not read?

BUT, IT IS OBVIOUS THAT (FINANCIAL) REFORM IS NEEDED.

That is why I support it.

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Micar

“what would your ideal society of 300+ million people look like with no government.”

I never said we should have no government. But if you want to make the rules, have a dog in the fight. When one says “do as I say, not as I do,” I don’t want them making the rules for me.

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still waiting on that input on how Wall Street represents anything even remotely resembling a free market. I know it is a fee market, but where is the free market which controls the tycoons?

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Oh puh..leeze Cynthia, that’s not mojo, that’s the barrel of a gun saying you work for us now.

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If the government wants to regulate banks, then tax paying Americans should be able to regulate the health habits of people that are on the government dole for their health insurance.

They should only be allowed to buy low-fat, healthy food and should be required to exercise vigorously for at least one hour a day in order to maintain their welfare payment.

No more Micky-D’s
No more potato chips
No more pork ribs
No more french fries

They should all have to be monitored on a daily basis as to what their food intake is and how much they are excercising. A few hundred thousand IRS agents should be able to handle it.

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Hey Vinny, are you saying that folks who eat potato chips are the same as the folks who steal potato chips?

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Reality:
I’ll give this one more try. I get it that you believe financial reform is needed. However, it’s not clear to me that you get that all financial reform initiatives aren’t the same. I asked you to explain why you are supporting this particular financial reform initiative when, by your own admission, you know nothing about it. Step up.

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everybody give up on the free market request about Wall Street? So if it is not a free market that regulates itself, and tycoons use the game to steal other peoples money, what is so bad about making some rules to try and make the game a little fairer? I mean all you folks that advocate for doing nothing would step foot inside a gambling hall where the casino guy could just make up the rules to suit himself, Would you?

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Noody wants government to take over wall street. But they do need regulating. We need someone watching out for our interest. Rules, laws, regulations, inspections, audits, and controls. Bankers and wall street financiers do not self regulate.

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Schrutebeets. You need to leave God out of this. All credibility is lost when you claim that you know what God has blessed. If this country was so steeped in “judeo-christian values”, the evils of the 1800s and 1900s would have never happened. If you think God blessed those evils, that says a lot about you. If the 1800s and 1900s didn’t do this country in, what rot would do it in!

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Wellllll, there you have it. Regulations: No tycoon can be president, he/she must be killed or disgraced. Let’s move on to the job’s bill.

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Yeah…we’ll see how their “mojo” looks at the polls. Four words to remember; “Massachusetts elected a REPUBLICAN”. You reap what you sow…and jamming this down the collective throats when it is obvious that the vast majority did NOT want THIS VERSION (don’t hand me this crap about Republicans don’t want healthcare reform just because they couldn’t tolerate some of the things in THIS health care reform) is going to lead to huge losses at election time.

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Poor choice of words. I don’t want representatives with “mojo.” I want representatives with ethics, honesty, humility, knowledge of the constitution, awareness of their constituency, and a pride in their country’s liberties and strengths. Ms Tucker: bah!

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The Democrats are going to chase producers & capital out of this country.

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Blue

I gotta’ go with Keep up the good fight on that one…

The Mass election did send a message….but not the message as interpreted by the right wing pundits.

“” a new Washington Post/Kaiser/Harvard poll undermines this assertion. The poll suggests that while the election was a “protest of the Washington process,” it was not a rejection of progressive policy. Only 11 percent of voters, including 19 percent of Brown voters, want Brown to “stop the Democratic agenda:

- 70 percent of voters think Brown should work with Democrats on health care reform, including 48 percent of Brown voters.

- 52 percent of voters were enthusiastic/satisfied with Obama administration policies.

- 44 percent of voters believe “the country as a whole” would be better off with health care reform, but 23 percent believe Massachusetts would be better off.

- 68 percent of voters, including 51 percent of Brown voters approve of Massachusetts’ health care reform.

- 58 percent of all voters, including 37 percent of Brown voters, felt “dissatisfied/angry” with “the policies offered by the Republicans in Congress.”

A different poll, from Rasmussen Reports, cast doubt on the notion that Brown voters were primarily motivated by opposition to health care reform. The poll found that 52 percent of Brown voters said health care was their top issue, while an even greater percentage of people who voted for state Attorney General Martha Coakley (D) — 63 percent — placed it first.

From TPM

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So long JACK.

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It only goes to show how little Democrats care about allowing the private sector to create the jobs people want. Democrats work to establish centralized control over the economy inch by inch and they will not waste this crisis. That’s why their stimulus measures dole money out in the form of grants, the government controls the creation of work, not sustainable jobs.

It’s all about power and control, they just wrap it in security until Americans one day realize their liberties have been eroded.

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A new study came out today stating that 93.75% of the stats included in them are made up. A new poll came out an hour later supporting this finding 63% to 46.999%. The other .001% had no opinion. .

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Justin Kase (cute new name, is that the7th or 8th today)

ever see the movie Apartment for Peggy?

You sound just like Peggy…..

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So, remind me — including the following, what part of this ObamaCare redistribution of wealth is supposed to be good for us???

The mandate that all Americans buy health insurance represents a fundamental change in the relationship between individuals and the federal government in the United States. According to the Congressional Budget Office, this is the first time in the history of the country that the federal government has ever ordered American citizens to buy any good or service.

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Reality…

I was in a rush and had a few mintues to compile a post. Sorry for the confusion…

Simply, the questions to Dems is can they move forward on other policies post-healthcare reform is put to law. They take no time to rattle off tid-bits like “decrease deficit by 100Billion in the first 10 years and now Republicans do not want to decrease the debt.” They go on and on…

This statement is true. However, the first 4yrs we fund this reform with no action and continue for the next 6yrs. So we pay for 10yrs of coverage, but only recieve 6yrs. Spooky huh?

Then the new administration coming in 2016 (if two terms) imediately has fines to those who do not choose to be covered hiking from $300 to $600 to be paid to the Gov’t.

Many will opt to just pay the fine due to the fact that the bill will allow uncovered to simply enroll for coverage when they need medical care and pay the same amount that is set across the board by Gov’t.

An entire industry has just been crushed by Gov’t, and the practice of providing care freely is now ILLEGAL.

If you don’t like insurance companies, then dont buy the coverage. Understand that medical costs are issued by GOVERNMENT ALREADY!!!!! You are charged based on the price offered by Medicare.

And now, Government forcing a company to provide it’s resources for goods and services set by the very same Government is similar to a mob tatic. Any such practice is ILLEGAL for you and I.

We USED to have a choice to choose. Now we don’t.

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Enter your comments here

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someone please point out in the Constitution where it says it is the governments business what any CEO is paid.

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I see someone has either spoofed my name, or mother forgot to tell me I have a brother.

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Well GG, according to you I’m a liar, but you’re telling me the truth that your parents named you “Granny.” I not sure your truth will pass the smell test.

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Pat….try Congress shall have the right to regulate interstate commerce…..

(Article I, Section 8, Clause 3). The clause states that the United States Congress shall have power “To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes”.

It is often paired with: section 8, clause 18:

The Congress shall have Power – To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

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Pat…let me add that as a shareholder of publicilly traded companies the salaries of corporate officers are in effect a conspiracy of theft from shareholders. Shareholders should have the right to approve all salaries of the senior executives by direct vote at the annual meeting. Of course, we are moving toward that slowly but the government can certainly regulate excessive salaries. And since the salaries are a hidden non-government tax on your share values and dividends it does impact the bottomline for every day americans

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LOL at Cynthia…after passing a health care reform bill that sticks evil rich white people with the bill for it all, now they’re gonna enact Wall Street “reform” that doesn’t leave the so-called rich with any money to confiscate anyway? Again, LOL…

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Nice try “Keep up the good fight” – You are reaching. How does someone’s salary impact interstate commerce? This is just another power grab by the Communist in power.

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Oh…and memo to “Keep up the good fight”…you need to get a copy of The Federalsit Papers and read them. Because your comments about the Constitutionality of regulating interstate commerce are hysterical (and wrong).

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Pat…..I wont bother to explain to you 100000s of case law on the commerce clause. If you want to speak and educate yourself on the matter, then try going to law school. Of course, you are welcome to contact my office, pay a retainer fee and I will write you a nice memo on the history of the commerce clause.

I report/Show my ignorance — Try a few Supreme Court cases. I’ve read the Federalist Papers but I have also read Supreme Court decisions, the constitution and studied law. Of course, you are welcome to try your arguments in court.

“Communist grab for power” and similar stupid commentary are just that. Nice try!

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CT, your words are worth 1000 pictures. “Mojo”? “Swagger”? This isn’t Dancing with the Stars (or, maybe it is). Speaking of pop culture, Have you seen the movie “Road House”? “…nobody wins a fight…” This post-political battle euphoria reminds me of something… about 7 years ago… can’t seem to… oh that’s right, the Bush & Co decision to invade Iraq. same argument (to protect Americans), almost the same price tag ($1 trillion over 10 years), but sadly enough, same old same old; Big Insurances, Big Pharm, Big Med, and Big IT are going to “get paid” (as if there is a difference between “resdistributing” my wealth to Kaiser Permanente or EDS and Haliburton, Blackwater/Xe or Lockheed Martin). And feel free to substitute War in Iraq/2003 with Wall Street Bailout 2008 (AIG, Goldman Sachs, TARP). But let’s get back to war. Ever read Sun Tzu’s “The Art of War”? Not much mention of “mojo” or “sawgger”. In fact, there’s a sobering passage which suggests “victory celebrations should be conducted like funerals.” Dalton (Roadhouse) was right. When there’s a fight in DC, there are no winners, and the tax payers ultimately LOSE.

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Follow the money. The Republicans don’t want financial reform because they will lose the $$$$ from the banking lobby. Simple as that.

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Pat Phelps,

First of all corporations are legal fictions. They don’t exist in reality. They exist only as a result of our corporate law. We the people can just as easily do away with their right to “exist” as they exist today.

Since they have no existence independent of our corporate law, we as society can place rules and regulations on how they conduct themselves. If you want the benefit of the legal protections of the corporate form you will do X and Y. Arguably that could include that a publicly traded corporation cannot pay their CEO more than X dollars per year, of Y percentage of profits after taxes or not more than Z times the salary of the average employee.

People seem to think that corporations actually exist. They don’t. They exist only as manifestations of our corporate law. They can just as easily be stripped of their very existence.

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Swede Atlanta

I’d love to be able to replace John Roberts with you……

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Granny…definitely! Corporations should remain a fiction and responsible to their shareholders.

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pat

it’s ass…if you’re man enough to call names spell ‘em correctly.

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Pat.. absolutely thank you. What you may think is arrogance, my clients think is understanding the law, the issues and knowing how to help them in the real world. Since you apparently have not studied law, I will give your comments about the court and your assessment of their decision sufficient weight based on your training and education. The laws of other laws have always been used as a basis in law …especially since 49 states derived their law from the English system and 1 from French system. It is you who somehow think that only Americans can know law or who think that other legal systems cannot get some things right that we get wrong. I applaud their willingness to look behind our borders since you have omitted a specific case reference.

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justin kase you ever want to know what i think, all you have to do is ask.

it’s so much more honest than presuming to speak for me.

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Yes our federal government has real problems.

But if the last 10 years has taught us anything we should see unfetter capitalism is no ticket to nirvana.

Government has a role.

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@Keep up the good fight: Slow down there – remember that you simply cannot use that much logic and sense in one post and expect for these guys to follow!

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Pat Phelps

Another lesson about the U.S. Court system.

Inferior courts are bound by decisions of “superior” courts (e.g. a U.S. District Court is bound by decisions of the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for their Circuit and the U.S. Supreme Court).

The U.S. Supreme Court is not bound by the decisions of any other court, including their own decisions. A doctrine known as Stare Decisis (”it has already been decided”) strongly suggests that the Supreme Court use caution when overruling their own decisions, especially if they are recent. Without stare decisis, parties could see different decisions on the same issue in a short period of time.

But our courts have always used laws and court decisions, both domestic and foreign, as part of their analysis. For example in Lawrence v. Texas, the Court noted that the majority of states had repealed their sodomy laws. While that fact is not binding on the Court, it was considered in their reasoning and analysis. The Court has also noted laws and court decisions in other countries in their analysis. If the foreign court had a solid framework for their decision, there is nothing in our Constitution that prevents our Supreme Court from using that framework as part of their analysis. They aren’t bound by foreign law but we as a nation live among other nations that share certain common values. As such there is nothing inappropriate for the Court to look at how other nations have looked at similar issues. I would want the Supreme Court to use all information, consistent with our Constitution, in rendering their decision.

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@Swede Atlanta: Will you marry me?

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Gator@1:53, Children already have CHIP, the poor have Medicaid & the elderly have Medicare. Additionally, veterans have the VA. I’m unable to see any benefits from the hc bill except for a few middle income sick people.

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justin case….tell your lovely bride i’m having similar issues with my recently retired Mr. G. I’m still trying to get him to understand about sorting laundry and thawing out meat for dinner.

i don’t think one is “wronger” than the other. we both know one has much much bigger pockets.

i support public financing of elections eliminating all corporate and union money ….common cause has done some good work on the subject.

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Swede – if you could guarantee that the courts up hold the constitution every time and that judges never legislate from the bench, then I would give credance to your statement. We all know that judges do legislate from the bench.

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GG-Have the sorting thing down pat, but have been told I need to learn the powder bleach v.s. the liquid bleach a little better. Don’t know what she was bitching about….she got some new clothes because I didn’t know the difference.

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Linda, you are kidding, right?

Are you not aware that there are between 25 and 45 MILLION Americans that are not insured under any existing program? I am middle aged, healthy with an upper middle income and great private insurance from my employer. If I lost my job tomorrow I could stay on COBRA for up to 18 months then I would be uninsurable under the law as it was yesterday and will be until 2014 as I have a genetic heart defect. So far it hasn’t caused any health problems but that “pre-existing” condition would make individual insurance impossible to find or if found, unaffordable. So I am just a pinkslip away from not having health insurance.

Are you also aware that some individuals that might only get coverage under Medicaid today can transition to private insurance with the help of public subsidies? The idea is that getting people insured under private insurance even with subsidies will be cheaper than paying for their care directly through Medicaid.

Are you aware that because people with no other form of health care get their care in the emergency room, your wait times at the emergency room should you need them are longer? Are you aware that this use of the most expensive delivery method for health care increases your cost should you need to be hospitalized? Hospitals, etc. pass the cost to you!!!

I recently resolved an issue with a hospital stay for my elderly father. He is on Medicare and has secondary retiree health insurance from his former employer. The hospital didn’t note his insurance status so they sent me a bill. When I called them and we got the insurance issue straightened out, the amount they billed the insurance company was 10% higher? They said that those without insurance get a 10% discount. Now do you think they are providing the service for 10% less? No, they are charging the insurance company a 10% premium.

I could go on and on. HCR was and remains one of the biggest challenges to our economy and to our status as a moral and modern society.

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linda

i haven’t lost the first big or little liberty…..

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Granny – perhaps what you’ve lost is your mind – is it Anheiser’s or Alzheimer’s?

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Here’s some food for thought:

(And yes, Q, this time I am cutting and pasting like Sinthia… only difference is I’m not getting paid to do it… apparently she is….

Ten inconvenient truths about Obamacare

By: SUSAN FERRECHIO

Chief Congressional Correspondent -The Washington Examiner
March 23, 2010

“President Obama is promising a massive campaign to sell the health care plan just approved by Congress — starting with his signature on the Senate version of the legislation on Tuesday. The sales pitch begins even as the Senate considers a raft of modifications to the plan already approved by the House. But as the president makes his pitch, critics will be looking to knock down many of the central claims he and other Democratic leaders have made. Here are 10 inconvenient truths that could dog the president:

1. The cost of coverage will rise for the middle class.

According to Dr. Scott Gottlieb, a health care scholar at the free-market American Enterprise Institute, the new bill will actually make it more costly for middle class families to buy health insurance by forcing those who shop on the individual market to buy generous, but expensive plans mandated under the new law. Middle class families earning $88,000 or more a year won’t qualify for health care subsidies. A family earning $100,000 would end up spending nearly a quarter of their net income on health care.

2. Health insurance premiums will go up for nearly half of Americans.

Health care premiums for those in the individual insurance market will rise 10 percent to 13 percent by 2016 under the plan, according to the Congressional Budget Office. While the cost of premiums will be subsidized with taxpayer dollars for 57 percent of those enrolled in the new government-run insurance exchanges, the 43 percent of enrollees who do not qualify for assistance will have to pay higher costs.

3. Health reform is unlikely to create new jobs.

The Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank, says that the health care reform bill will create “between 2.5 million to 4 million additional jobs over the next 10 years.” But the fiscally conservative Beacon Hill Institute, part of Boston’s Suffolk University, conducted its own analysis and found that in response to higher taxes and mandates on companies to provide insurance, “firms would be induced to fire or lay off workers” to the tune of 120,000 to 700,000 employees by 2019. The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, found that the new taxes would kill 690,000 jobs per year.

4. Federal funding may cover abortion.

Obama agreed on Sunday to sign an executive order to reaffirm the Senate bill’s “consistency with long-standing restrictions on the use of federal funds for abortion.” But pro-life groups say the executive order does not carry the force of a law and will do nothing to curb the provision in the bill they believe will allow taxpayer dollars to cover the procedure. “The president cannot amend a bill by issuing an order, and the federal courts will enforce what the law says,” the National Right to Life Committee said.

5. Four million people will lose their employer-based plans.

The new health care law will impose a list of benefits each health care plan will have to offer if they are to remain in business. The Congressional Budget Office also estimates that about 4 million people would lose their employer-based plan and be forced to buy plans on the new government exchanges.

6. Medicare will cut services along with costs.

The bill makes $528 billion in cuts to Medicare, including a $136 billion reduction for Medicare Advantage. The Medicare Advantage cuts will force 4.8 million seniors off the popular plan by 2019. An additional $23 billion in cuts to Medicare will come from a panel charged with slashing Medicare spending.

7. The bill will not pay for itself.

The CBO found that the bill would reduce the deficit by $138 billion over 10 years, but the savings was achieved by leaving out a $208 billion provision lawmakers will have to enact later to ensure doctors are adequately paid for treating Medicare patients. When the “doc fix” is included in the bill, it runs $59 billion in the red over the next decade. And former CBO Director Douglas Holtz-Eakin said that “if you strip out all the gimmicks and budgetary games” the 10-year deficit would exceed $560 billion.

8. Higher Medicaid costs will gradually shift to the states.

The health care reform bill expands Medicaid to all non-elderly individuals up to 133 percent of the poverty line. The federal government would foot the bill for this expansion, but only until 2016. Beginning in 2017, states would gradually begin paying a portion of it. By 2020, states would cover 10 percent of the cost of Medicaid expansion.

9. Doctor shortages could lead to rationing.

A survey conducted by the Medicus Firm, a medical recruitment company, found that 46 percent of physicians said they would quit or retire if the Democratic health care reform bill becomes law. The survey noted that “even if a much smaller percentage such as ten, 15, or 20 percent are pushed out of practice over several years at a time when the field needs to expand by over 20 percent, this would be severely detrimental to the quality of the health care system.”

10. The bill raises taxes for many individuals and businesses.

The bill imposes a 40 percent excise tax on insurance plans costing $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families. It also raises revenue by increasing the Medicare payroll tax for those earning more than $200,000, plus a new 3.8 percent tax on unearned income for these earners. The bill also imposes new taxes on drug makers, medical device manufacturers and health insurers that are likely to be passed on to consumers.”

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Pat Phelps,

The argument about legislating from the bench is as old as the hills. Whether a court is legislating from the bench or not depends on whether you agree with the court’s decision.

Many conservatives felt that Roe v. Wade was the result of an activist court, “legislating from the bench”. Many liberals feel the recent decisions to allow corporations to pump unlimited money into elections is “legislating from the bench”. In both cases the Supreme Court viewed its actions as being a matter of interpretation of the Constitution. But the effect is to create new law. In the case of Roe v. Wade it meant that abortion is legal without Congress and the President’s will. With the election funding case, unlimited corporate money in our elections is now law.

The natural effect of courts rendering decisions on matters of statutory or constitutional law or, albeit uncommon, matters of common law, is to “make law”. Making law is the very definition of legislating.

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Pat Phelps,

I don’t know where you are getting your figures. The figure of about $35M is from a recent CBO report. Regardless of the number it is in the millions.

I absolutely want everyone to have health insurance. I am tired of losing my freedom to be free of having to pay for the uninsured every time I go to the doctor or heaven forbid, the hospital. I am paying for them now directly in the form of higher charges (see my previous posting about one hospital that gives those without insurance a 10% discount but make sure they collect that additional 10% if you have insurance).

I would rather subsidize the purchase of health insurance to spread the risk out across the pool of insured than paying directly for them in the form of the 10% surcharge on my bill (and through that my premiums) because of the uninsured. I would rather subsidize premiums than have government have to provide direct cash to providers. I am a firm believer in the concept of insurance – spread the risk across a large pool of insured.

But if talk about “freedom” I want to be free from the 10% surcharge and having my tax dollars go to paying for people’s care when they either can’t afford coverage or choose not to.

The only other choice is to pass a law that says those that choose not to purchase insurance are left to die. If you show up and aren’t in some kind of insurance program, public or private, you die or sign over all of your assets.

I for one don’t believe in an America that treats its citizens that way.

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Zibby

No danish beer for me! “Old timers” as we call it in the family….I probably have 20 good years left.

Sadly, being rude is early onset in your case.

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Micar that is because due to government interference, what people call “health insurance” is health care. Mandates requireing preventive and regular visits be “covered” is simply added on to the real insurance. This is economics 101, The insurance company profits as an industry are around 2%. They are not the reason for escalating costs.

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Gee CT that’s really great news. But when do we get the reform bill we need more than health care or wall street, the government reform bill???

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you see it as an opportunity. I see it as more government intusion into my life and more importantly my pocket.

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pat

you pocket already pays for it, doing it better will lighten your pocket less.

if $$$ are your ultimate driver, you’ll just love the public option

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Micar

so true

judicial activism is in the eye of the beholder….

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Now Dan, how many health insurance company financial statements have you read. My info is that the health insurance margins are more in the 7% range and that is after they skim all the executive salaries and perks off the top.

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For all those so worried about “their” pocket; Query, would you take a ham sandwich from the government if you were broke and starving?

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If not the government, then would you take a ham sandwich from anyone?

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Micarbonate – “Hey Zibby – Some more food for thought. Did you know that if you take the annual percentage rate of increase and divide it into 72 you get the number of years it takes for a dollar to double. Now seems like health care premiums have doubled over the last 6 years. At the current pace of increases they will double again in less than 5 years. How many doubles do you want before something gets done to stop the parade.”

Hey, did you know that two wrongs don’t make a right… but three do? LOL

Seriously, there is a difference between health reform and government take over.

I am all for reform. Tort reform. Waste reform. Portability of policies. And if all of that was accomplished, we’d all be in better shape and it would cost a boatload less than what is now coming to pass with Obozocare….

The real challenge with all of this right now is the real payoff and the real costs won’t show up for a while… but when they do and nothing goes according to plan just remember the government is running the postal service, Amtrak and now GM and Chrysler too… God have mercy on us all….

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Glass was in effect when the savings and loan people crashed and burned It only separates commericial banks from investment banks Me thinks you need to regulate the banks a little on capital reserves and high risk transactions too. Otherwise those folks will rely on the govt bailout and engage in moral hazard.

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Just got back from my afternoon run, can I have the ham samich?

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Zibby

so sorry, not meant to hurt….let granny but a spiderman bandage on hims boo boo. then hold it above your head for 10 minuts.

k punkin?

“so it goes” K. Vonnegut

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So Zibby, am I hearing you to say that the insurance business would clean itself up under you proposals. On tort reform, they have done that in a few states. Funny result, no impact on insurance premiums. Where are all those savings going.

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Justin, sure have the ham sanwich on me. You are broke and starving aren’t you?

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Who was it that said the poor will always be with you and to feed them anyway.

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Linda, Don’t forget the kiddies in your 300 million figure. We have not gone back to child labor sweat shops have we?

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SSDD!!!

Enjoy the ride Democrats, it will end in November!

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Thanks Micar for the samich. Not broke and starving, but retired and hungry.

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We are so fortunate to have all these fortune tellers on this blog. Should I rush out and make a few bets on Republicans for the up coming election. This all happened in 48 you know with Truman. How did that go, “Dewey Wins”.

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Micar – look at how good health care is in the good ole USA compared to other countries. That should scare the hell out of you.

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Swede – I think everyone should have insurance, but the government giving it away is where you and I break rank.

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Yeah, those 98,000 deaths a year due to medical errors just fills me up with confidence.

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Micar@3:22, The average profit in ‘08 for 4 of the largest insurance companies was 3.6%. The average for Wellpoint, Humana, Aetna & United Health Group was 5.1% in ‘06, 5.4% in ‘07 & 3.6% in ‘08, with an average of 4.7% in all 3 years.
If you look at a list of the most profitable industries in the US, hc insurance companies rate #86 with a 3.3% profit. Health care facilities, major drugs, drug delivery, hc information services, home hc, medical labs & research, med. instruments & supplies, biotechnology, generic drugs, & hospitals all make more profits than the insurance companies. While you’re at it, look at brewers, personal products, restaurants, cleaning products, waste management, etc.

Do you know of any companies who DON’T pay CEOs & perks?

The agenda of this adm is to always create a crisis, an emergency, victims & bad guys. This time they picked on the insurance companies, not because they made a decent profit. It depends on the lobbyists.

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The profits of the top 5 health insurance companies combined last year would pay for this health care overhaul bill for about two days according to Stuart Varney.

That’s great policy!

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I along with millions of American people are over joyed by the healthcare billed being passed. You know I think the closet freaks are coming out from everywhere now and that’s a good thing. God needs to know who all will not be entering heaven because of their HATRED. It is really sad in this day and time for people to carry on like someone just stole their baby child. The republicans deserve no credit at all. They don’t want to see anyone with Healthcare except for them selves. What on earth will it hurt for all Americans to have healthcare. All I can say is that it’s not the President you are mad at it’s God. God is in charge of this thing and it’s absolutely nothing anyone in the right wing or left wing can do about it. So put that in your hate pipe and smoke it!!!!!!

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BE CAREFUL @ CHRIS YOU MAY BE ONE OF THOSE leeches of society ONE DAY!!!!!!

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“The republicans deserve no credit at all. They don’t want to see anyone with Healthcare except for them selves.”

Hyperbole much?

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Dave R

How’s this for hyperbole?…..Oh is it False witness?

“Doctors, nurses and related staff are now Government employees”

it’s just plain crap.

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Today it’s hyperbole, Granny.

Tomorrow? . . . If you get your way, they will be.

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Swede – I don’t want to pretend to speak for Linda, but how is it not socialist when the government is forcing people that may not be currently insured or don’t want to be insured to buy insurance or face a fine!!!

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Zibby

Is it? Do you have the rules posted on a 3 x 5 laminated card in your wallet? Can you post them for all of us.

Just how much Dr. Pepper can a granny have in any given day?

k pootiepie?

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andy…it’s concurrent.

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Hey Dimwits (aka Democrats) define socialism?

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Love@4:34, The health care insurance reform bill has almost absolutely nothing to do with health, care, insurance or reform. The objective of this bill was to socialize another 1/6 of our economy. It’s the greatest attack on our freedom & our country, including 9/11. It will kill more people as we loose doctors & experience rationing. It was not implemented by the hand of God.

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CT,

If my costs go up, will you please pickup the difference for me, as you want it and i don’t. Seems the “progressive” thing to do.

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I love PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA and I love you too!!! Whether you like it or not.

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I am drunk on Jesus!!!!! If you knew him you would know it’s all about him. Barack Obama is covered by the BLOOD OF JESUS!!! Let me help you people……..read the book of Revelations…it will explain everything you need to know about what’s really going on in this world today.

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Socialism is an economic system where the government owns the means of production.

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Reality, we love this country too much to let it degenerate into what it has and will become.

But don’t worry; that change comes this November.

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Love@5:14, The Obamas say they went to Wright’s Chicago church for 20 yrs. They went to church on inauguration day. Have they been since? He refused to celebrate the National Day of Prayer in our traditional way. He appointed self-admitted Communists & Mao admirers as czars. He had a Mao ornament on his Xmas tree. He initially refused to place the traditional nativity scene on the White House lawn. He wanted to make contributions to charities, including churches, no longer tax-deductible. He is pro-abortion & for gay rights except marriage.
If he’s covered in the blood of Jesus, I don’t think he got it the way you are implying that he did.

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Reality@5:19, You have a lot of nerve telling the House of Representatives “to get off the hc reform debate” …those “that don’t like” the Senate bill…”Tough. You lost. Get over it” & to “move out, period.”
Yes, the House lost. They had to accept the Senate bill, rather than the Senate accepting the House bill. If the House moved out of America, there will be no more debate on reconciliation & no more socialist bills passed.

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I thought this was a debate concerning financial reform, but apparently healthcare has come front and center again.

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T – “I thought this was a debate concerning financial reform, but apparently healthcare has come front and center again.”

Unfortunately it is still the flavor of the month. Will be again in November….

The financial reform comes by winding the clock back to 1999 when Willie (Clinton) and Frankie (Barnie) messed everything up with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in lowering the entrance exam for home ownership in this country. That was really the starting point for the whole mess…

Funny also how Clinton had more than one shot at the apple to get bin Laden and he let every one of them slip through his fingers… but then again his fingers were already busy inside of other things….

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Granny on her Hovaround – “Zibby – Is it? Do you have the rules posted on a 3 x 5 laminated card in your wallet? Can you post them for all of us.”

If I had them, I’d be happy to share them but I’m not exactly on which rules of which you speak… Rules of engagement? Rules for Scrabble? Rules Broken By The demoncrats?

“Just how much Dr. Pepper can a granny have in any given day? k pootiepie?”

Too much sugar, no matter how sweet you are, is the problem – you’re apparently in sugar shock… don’t you don’t the demoncrats don’t want you drinking soft drinks anymore? No CoCola for you either…..

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Granny….you should know rational discussion is no defense against the mind of zibby. When you zig, she zags. You zag, she’s already dived off the deep end right into the shallow pool.

Yes we can is not just part of a victory lap and then sitting down. We are going to push more because the Repubs showed that we can get er done.

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Geithner is a tax cheat and was part of the problem while at the New York Fed .Now we are supposed to listen to his DEMANDS on how to fix the problems that men like himself have created.. We wouldn’t have to have “corrupt reform” if Timmy would have let all of these ‘bailed olut firms fail. Do people not know that a huge number of the bailed out firms top guys are now in the Obama Administration. The foxes seem to be guarding the hen houses of late. For our country’s sake I hope people will wake up by November and send a message. It’s time to remove these “elitist, stateist, socialist” politicians who think they know what’s good for me much more than I know what’s good for myself. No thank you!!!!!!!

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Cynthia, please use your influence to have the Fed enact strict reuglations to the Banking, Energy, Insurance, and Health Industries. The Fed should impose Anti=Trust Controls on Major League Baseball as well as the Insurance Companies, immediately. With this action, “WE THE PEOPLE” will be empowered and certain Politicians can be put in check.

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Four coors, and seven beers ago……

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Granny….keep is fine……

Yes I hope your grandson does have a kinder gentler world… Hopefully healthcare will be even better over the next few years. Maybe we can do something to get the debt down too through better government and reforms.

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why bgoode how dare you bring up family values, god and ethics? But of course, hiring the son of your mistress and then getting the husband of your mistress a new job to keep quiet…..having a wide stance…..That is what is going to save this country!

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Love, you sound like one of those people that believe that everything happens for a reason, implying that God causes the effects of all events. That’s bull. When someone is killed in a wreck caused by a drunk driver, it’s the drunk driver who causes the wreck, not God. God gave us free will, the ability to make decisions, right or wrong.

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Linda – You are oh-so-wrong. Those “marches” were all of 10s of people. Sorry, but they don’t represent all of the American people. Even FOX news when they televised the great Tea Party Convention had trouble getting actual human bodies in the background shots.

The American people spoke volumes when we elected President O’bama. We want America to be great again – and not just for the wealthy. We want equal opportunity. We want fair access to healthcare. We don’t want the fat cats on Wall Street to sink the economy AGAIN.

By the way, before you throw around the term “Socialist” again, please look it up. You really show your IQ (or lack thereof) when you misuse a term such as that!

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News Flash! The republican agenda now includes spending tons more on useless State law suits against the healthcare reform LAW. They also plan to WASTE even more time/money in the Senate mucking around with the reconcilliation bill.

Will the republicans EVER do ANYTHING useful for this Country (other than start wars, cut taxes for the wealthy, run up the deficit, and say “no” to Democrats)?

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Reality….unfortunately Perdue wants Georgia to join the stupid states….

Fortunately legal experts doubt the lawsuits have much chance. Nice debate among solo lawyers going on right now about the Commerce Clause and whether there is a claim. Not to mention standing to bring the suits.

Granny….. don’t 20% of Republicans think Christ is the anti-christ? Social justice and all. Maybe he was just the first socialist….I mean, a few loaves of bread feeding the masses…. surely that just spurred them to rely on the state and not to be self-reliant. Who paid for that bread? Was than not redistribution?

Is there a conversion chart available for liberal to facist? socialist? multiply by 3/5 and add 32?

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Reality….are you coveting your neighbors ass again? Would it be wicked of me to wonder if you lived next door to Linda….. that would be irony.

Come with me and we can become Mormons! Then we can have Hannity add in some footage from other religions to make us look like even more people (oh the trees, the trees). “thousands” multiplied by 10s equal millions!

Maybe budhism….no wait, you cant intentionally covet a lot and then get forgiveness or so I heard of Fox. Remember look for the church with the best deal!

AIG is a duck, right? No wait….quackery is Fox. AIG is now Fox? Insurance is not a financial product silly. Its insurance.

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Reality & Keep Up @ 10:10, My mother taught Sunday School to all the kindergarteners in our church for decades, several generations. She taught us to be civil to each other, not to insult each other, not to call each other names, not to use bad words &, especially, to respect those who disagree with us. I apologize if I have strayed from her teachings. Please forgive me if I have & I forgive you if you have. I think I have merely responded to those who have personally attacked me & my opinions.

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Linda – This is a blog that is DESIGNED to entertain debate opinion. If you cannot handle it, then maybe you shouldn’t be here. I have never attacked you personally. I never called you names. And, I never even stated that you had a low IQ.

You did outwrite lie on me. You said that I’m “against the wealthy” and that is simply untrue. I feel that everyone should pull their fair weight.

The lawsuits from the States are indeed a waste of money. If you take the time to listen to the real Constitutional legal mind’s interpretation, they will plainly state that there is no basis for their law suits. Heck, I have a 9th grader in civics high school and even he has learned enough of the Consititution to understand that the States are just blowing hot air. Federal law ALWAYS trumps state law.

That is why republicans are simply using MORE of our tax dollars for their dog-and-pony PR show to get air time for this crap. Why aren’t you mad about THAT? As a conservative, you should be VERY upset at their waste.

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I think in my last post I hit on something….

The people most upset don’t realize that ‘their’ party, the republicans, are NOT the majority party any more. They CANNOT dictate their will as they have in the past (which is why our Country has degraded into this sorry economic state). They MUST learn to work WITH the current majority party (that would be the Democrats). Otherwise, all they will do is vote “no” on everything and will have nothing to show.

Who would vote in the next electron for a politican that says, “I did nothing except for ‘no’ on everything.”? They need to take opportunities to contribute to legislation – that is their job!

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Ms. Tucker has a provacative new post but the comments are closed.
Any wonder why?

I suggest reading Bob Herbert’s piece in the NYT yesterday as a companion to what Ms. T has written.

Highlights:

“For decades the G.O.P. has been the party of fear, ignorance and divisiveness. All you have to do is look around to see what it has done to the country. The greatest economic inequality since the Gilded Age was followed by a near-total collapse of the overall economy. As a country, we have a monumental mess on our hands and still the Republicans have nothing to offer in the way of a remedy except more tax cuts for the rich.

This is the party of trickle down and weapons of mass destruction, the party of birthers and death-panel lunatics. This is the party that genuflects at the altar of right-wing talk radio, with its insane, nauseating, nonstop commitment to hatred and bigotry.”

Lesson to GOP: This folderol didn’t work in 2008, repeating the bad behavior will not make it work this time.

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since others have conscripted this blog to respond to this morning’s missive, I submit that racism is not reflective of the “fringe” of ANY group. I would racism is the norm, and the “fringe” elements of which CT speaks (left and right) are actually more “sincere” in their beliefs than the middle of the road, finger in the wind crowd. divide and conquer and point the finger is how most homosapiens roll. that is to say “race” is no different than class, faith (or lack thereof), political leanings, gender, or any other distinction. we may share the same dna, but any human being worth his salt (and sometimes her salt, see: Laura Ingraham, Ann Coulture and that moon bat from Minnesota) will seek to vilify, isolate and condemn any OTHER human being that is “different”. when a person screams “go back to Africa” or any other racial, sexual or cultural epithet, he/she is doing so to get a response. “racism” is nothing more than a tactic or business model. I am not suggesting we embrace this, but rather de-weaponize it, or at the very least, ignore it. I am a middle-aged white male, and I am more offended when another blogger calls me a “liberal” OR a “conservative”.

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We would all agree that today’s brainless editorial would provoke sharp proportional response.

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The GOP certainly didn’t show any class at the rally or on the floor of the House.

Did all the Dems show class! Not hardly! Did the Dems show any class when Bush was in power! Not hardly! In reality they both could do better.

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Ragnar

Coulter, Canada and Race?

Nope.

It’s Coulter, Canada, Strict Hate Speech Laws and Canadians expressing their wishes.

Brainless? Nope. Denying it is brainless.

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I hear racists have periods every 28 days…..

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LOved that Zibby…..!!

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Are right wing hate mongers racist? Well they always have been, why would you think anything has changed.

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Oh and for Coulters “take a camel” remark to Muslims, just proofs the point. It is interesting that she is going to file a hate crime complaint in Canada when she is the one engaging in outrageous hate behavior with every breath she takes. All I can say about her complaint is “ironic isn’t it or is that too much satire.

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Won’t let me comment on your current article…”Republican Party stained by Racism” I agree with you that the Repubs have some crazies on their fringe…BUT why in the heck wouldn’t you allow that the Democart Party is also stained by racism at its fringe?…Along with Communism too….Why ONLY do you always want to put republicans down? Why can’t you be objective at least once-in-awhile? If you wish to discuss further…I will provide numerous occasions of racism in the democrat party.

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Micar…Absolutely! And then some….

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Ann Coulter is a self-promoting coward and nothing more. Ironic that she chose to target a Muslim. Many Muslims would accept death (martyred) before “canceling” a public appearance in the interest of personal safety. I am not endorsing Islam (or martyrdom for that matter), just exposing Coulture for the charlatan she is. My guess is, she only sold 100 tickets, so the promoters had to save face by cooking up some “angry mob” story.

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Here is first example…”Black Democratic leaders in Maryland say that racially tinged attacks against Lt. Gov. Michael S. Steele in his bid for the U.S. Senate are fair because he is a conservative Republican.

Such attacks against the first black man to win a statewide election in Maryland include pelting him with Oreo cookies during a campaign appearance, calling him an “Uncle Tom” and depicting him as a black-faced minstrel on a liberal Web log.

Operatives for the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC) also obtained a copy of his credit report — the only Republican candidate so targeted.

But black Democrats say there is nothing wrong with “pointing out the obvious.”

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The liberal media of course will not report on things that reflect badly on their preferred liberal democrats.

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Let me see, throwing Oreo cookies vs. right wing hate mongers claims to have 100 million guns in the basement just ready to go at the drop of a hat. Now that is parity for you.

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WARNING to all posters:

Regarding Ms. Tucker’s thread upstairs, in the future I recommend before reading any of her articles you check to see if she is allowing responses/comments. If not, don’t read her article. That will be my approach.

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Really is ashame how much racism is still allowed in the USA. As long as the democratic left, excuses, and ignores, rather than condemns the behaviour from their party at the fringes, there can be no hope for movng beyond race.

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That old oreo meme?

“According to numerous reports in the Washington Times, Steele was “pelted” with Oreo cookies, which signifies a racial slur for being black on the outside and white on the inside.

Times reporter S.A. Miller is one of the writers who referenced the incident in news articles on more than one occasion. Miller told WTOP he attended the event in 2002 and saw Steele get hit with cookies.

When pressed, Miller said he couldn’t swear in court that Steele did get hit with cookies because he didn’t actually see it happen.

On Tuesday, Steele told WTOP that he was never hit with Oreos and said the incident has been exaggerated.”

Oliver Willis November 2005

Maybe he was actually pelted with the “w”s from the west wing keyboards!
Oops! That didn’t happen either.

Remember Rule #1……if it comes from the right….factcheck first.

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Thanks Granny. Goes back to my earlier comment about those who wrap themselves in the flag with the hidden agenda of overthrowing constitutional democracy. These radicals only like freedom, liberty, true justice and the American way, if they can deny it to others.

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These folks are always talking about Obama being a radical, a socialist, a communist, a nazi, Hitler, et all. Reminds me of the psychological concept of projection where the nuts accuse somebody else of having the very characteristic that they themselves have. Seems to me the , hate mongering, revolutionary, radical right wing zealots are the folks we out to be submitting to serious scrutiny. Whether you are talking about Limbaugh, Beck, Bachman or Palin, seems to me they are all seeking to incite some crazy to violence.

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Chris D

Seriously….I googled Steve Gillibrand and the quote you noted and can’t find anything…..

Can you provide more info?

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I gave up….

Sadly, I have to admit that something like that might have been said,
but I can’t find anything.

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Yes Granny, all humans are fallible and given to do things that are reprehensible. Racism is always a prejudice which needs to be addressed wherever it is found. Few are free of it at some point. The issue with radical wild eyed mobs is that they feed on irrational emotion which almost always leads to violence. I fear that is where we are headed this time too. I just hope that the provocateurs (Limbaugh’s, Palin’s, Bachman’s, Beck’s, Coulter’s) are held accountable in some way for inciting violence. Truth is those folks should have their feet held to the fire right now.

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Chris D

While I must agree there are whackos on both sides. I truly do believe
the right is currently hosting the largest volume of them.

I can remember when the left had the biggest # of whackos….Chicago 68…McCarthy’s hotel….

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Chris

Saw the Degan thing, thanks. He was wrong to use such terms. It’s offensive to all decent Americans. Never heard of the guy before this though….

And mind you I don’t care for Justice Thomas. I see his wife (and by extension Justice Thomas) may have some troubles with her Tea Party
group fundraising, appears to be illegal.

Now go back and read some of Ms. Tuckers previous threads and count the names the President is called….

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Have you been to Chi-Town recently? I have to go about twice a year. Not working so well these days..

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Wow Cynthia, your agenda is far worse than the wild eyed radicals in the street mobs threatening to overthrow our Constitutional Democracy. I didn’t know that about you. I also like it when these folks remind you of how you should be so thankful for the opportunity to pursue your God given talent. You know, because for like 400 years others were denied the same opportunity.

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“With their mojo back,….”

New pet name for your sexual fetish, ct?

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