Toyota: risks of not-enough government
Among the conservative faithful, one of the fundamental tenets of the faith is that government regulation is bad; it chokes business and harms the economy. But a lack of regulation results in toys with lead, baby beds that choke children and Toyotas that run amok. Literally.
Trans Sec Ray LaHood has said that Toyota was recalcitrant every step of the way. National Highway Transportation Safety Administration officials had to go to Japan to warn Toyota to take the problems seriously. But many car-owners have complained that NHTSA dismissed their complaints, believing Toyota instead.
The deluge of complaints about Toyota cars, first over floor mats, then over sticky pedals and recently over Prius brakes, has aroused criticism that federal regulators compromised vehicle safety by too often trusting carmakers’ explanations.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which is charged with protecting the nation’s drivers, has long relied on automakers to help identify perils posed by the cars they make.
The reliance on automakers’ cooperation, however, might have diminished drivers’ say in the safety review process. During agency reviews, officials have at times minimized or simply rejected consumer accounts of what happened in favor of the manufacturers’ assessments, records show.
Persistent but unresolved consumer complaints led to Toyota’s current troubles, critics say, forcing the company to recall millions of cars around the world. On Thursday, the NHTSA announced that it had launched an investigation of the brakes on the company’s popular Prius hybrid.
The questions about safety have highlighted long-standing criticism of the agency.
“Unfortunately, if the manufacturer says it’s OK, then it’s OK with them,” said Jeffery A. Pepski, 54, a Minnesota driver who unsuccessfully petitioned the NHTSA with a complaint that his Lexus ES 350 accelerated unexpectedly on his way home from work last year. “The agency follows that logic all the way through their investigations. They’re not really investigating with an open mind.”
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161 comments Add your comment
Peadawg
February 5th, 2010
7:59 am
How about people, companies, etc. take responsibility for their OWN actions? What happened to parents teaching their to take responsibility? Why are you blaming everything that goes wrong w/ a company on (not enough) government? What has society come to?
Peadawg
February 5th, 2010
8:03 am
teaching their kids*****
i left out a word
Bob
February 5th, 2010
8:05 am
pathetic, compare the recalls between toyota and American companies the last forty years.
Peadawg
February 5th, 2010
8:18 am
Is it b/c of not enough gov’t regulation when a toy company recalls a toy? Good grief Cynthia. Recalls are part of the business(toy or auto). It happens. Not very often, but it happens.
Scott
February 5th, 2010
8:23 am
Cynthia,
How about you think of it another way? The free market will put Toyota in check. With the more news that continues to come out about Toyota and their reluctance to fix the problem, what has happened to their stock? It has gone from 81 to 71 in 3 days. What do you think is REALLY affecting their actions to work quickly to solve their issues? The government or the stock price? If you think it the government, then you are even more foolish than they have been. When people don’t buy their cars, that is when they exit the market completely.
Bubba
February 5th, 2010
8:26 am
Keeping harmful products off the market is one of the legitimate roles of government, in this conservative’s view. Who are the conservatives saying it is not?
joan
February 5th, 2010
8:42 am
Toyota has been the most reliable auto for years. It has a single problem and you are all about getting the government involved. Hey, they are fixing the problem. Get a life. I would still buy a Toyota before I would buy a GM car. The odds are better.
Independent
February 5th, 2010
8:42 am
Ms. Tucker, from what I’ve read there have been 16 deaths and 243 injuries from the Toyota issue. The recall covers 5 years of production for certain models. Let’s put a little perspective on the issue straight from the NHTSA website.
Average annual NONCRASH fatalities:
Struck by falling vehicle -168
Fall from vehicle – 88
Vehicle Fire – 57
Drowning – 3
Seems to me those figures are awfully higher than the Toyota issue. With 5 years of vehicles and 16 deaths, looks like one would have about the same chance of drowning in your vehicle that was not involved in a crash than you would from the accelerator issue. Let’s mandate automatic bilge pumps to prevent accidental drownings in vehicles. In your world, should not the long and strong of government regulation demand that all car makers install devices underneath vehicles to prevent accidental falling? Harnesses to prevent falling from vehicles? Fire retardant materials and automatic fire extinguishers to prevent vehicle fires? All of those technologies exist today and more lives would be saved.
joan
February 5th, 2010
8:43 am
And by the way, Obama can’t pronounce “corpsman”. How dumb is that!
I scoop ;~] Uleak :>o
February 5th, 2010
8:53 am
So Joan is saying that Obama is a light skinned negro who DOES have a negro dialect?
Shawny
February 5th, 2010
8:55 am
no, no, no.
Some regulation is good, particularly with lead paint, choking hazards, etc. With Toyota, it was a defect, not an intentional ‘oversight’. They are doing their due diligence to make it right (without govt regulations), the free market will punish Toyota for their sins (without govt regulations), and their brand is tarnished (without govt regulations). Leave them alone.
It isn’t necessary that we make yet more laws so that they make gas pedals that don’t stick. They know that they want to make gas pedals that don’t stick. They know that cars with gas pedals that don’t stick will not sell. They know that fixing the problem will cost them millions, and they are doing the right thing in doing it.
So why, praytell, do we need even more oversight in this area?
Bubba
February 5th, 2010
9:01 am
This is how liberals respond to everything. If there’s a problem, impose more government controls. If somebody shoots somebody, let’s ban guns. If Toyota makes cars with a defect that causes deaths, let’s place more controls on the auto industry. OK, there are more than 40,000 traffic deaths in this country every year. Let’s do this: Require all drivers and passengers to wear helmets; ban any use of a cellphone, video device or audio device in a car (including a radio, CD player, iPod, etc). Require all cars to be made with passenger seats facing the rear; require all drivers to undergo recertification and testing every year; install governors on all engines that restrict maximum speed to 45 mph. Make DUI punishable by one year in prison on the first offense. These things would save thousands and thousands of lives every year, more than a total ban on all firearms. What do you say liberals?
ctucker
February 5th, 2010
9:01 am
Actually, Joan, it appears that Toyota has more than a single problem.
ctucker
February 5th, 2010
9:02 am
OK, Broe, I know you’re trying to be funny, but let’s not invite that kind of commentary.
Blue
February 5th, 2010
9:02 am
More guhment…yeah…that’s the answer to everything, CT. More guhment. They fix errythang…
ctucker
February 5th, 2010
9:04 am
Independent, The number of deaths is high for something that’s caused by the car itself. And 234 injuries is a lot — easier to downplay if it didn’t happen to you
So What, Who Cares?
February 5th, 2010
9:04 am
I don’t thing government could help here, this seems to be a software bug, software that is running to millions of lines of code, according to this mornings wsj. In the past, each discrete system on the automobile on its own dedicated microprocessor, from fuel injection to breaking to emissions control and steering. On new cars, all systems are integrated on a common bus, networked if you will, and unpredictable interactions are occurring under extreme or unusual conditions. Other car makers are likely to have similar problems, we just have not heard of them yet. Here is a link to the article
online wsj com/article/SB10001424052748704359504575045131917738188.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEFTTopOpinion#articleTabs%3Darticle
ctucker
February 5th, 2010
9:07 am
Shawny, As with many manufacturers, Toyota knew years ago that they had a problem. But their cost calculations suggested to them that it would be cheaper to keep doing what they were doing. Yes, they want to make gas pedals that don’t stick — unless the cost of fixing the problem is something they don’t want to pay. They were willing to tmake the gamble that the problem would not be traced back to them. As long as it wasn’t, it didn’t cost them anything. We need more oversight to stop manufacturers from taking a gamble like that that could cost some individuals their lives.
RG
February 5th, 2010
9:11 am
If we are not going to let businesses fail because they make products that cannot be sold for less than they cost to make (GM, various banks, etc), then OF COURSE we should have a government representative inside every business to ensure compliance with government policies, e.g., quality control, environmental policies, labor management.
That model worked well for the Soviet Union for 50 years. Right?
sam
February 5th, 2010
9:12 am
point is that without government stepping in, toyota would’ve continued ignoring the problem (for profits sake) and more people would be injured or killed…by the time the “market” figured out what was going, on how many would be dead?
Road Scholar
February 5th, 2010
9:14 am
Having owned many Toyota products including one on the recall list, I think that Government has a commitment to the people to ensure that companies “plays fair”. Regulating anything other than pollution and mileage standards from the vehicles is difficult. But having a company admit a problem is their role, along with ensuring a reasonable and quick fix. I do find fault with the latest contention that there is an electronic malfunction since no one has proven it exists. By “feeling” there is a defect does nothing but cause panic. The government should have a watchdog to review claims, the facts and to issue an impartial opinion based on those facts.
Quality should be No 1, and Toyotas has slipped, at least for my model and year; Bad oil line (fixed at no charge but now recalled), chip malfunction (3 times-refunded my money for the fix), and now the accelerator pedal (recall)are the signs I based my ascertian on. Will I buy another? Perhaps, based on the quality and features, and how they have stood behind their product.
Scout
February 5th, 2010
9:15 am
Ms. Tucker:
Sorry, but an out of control federal government (and President) is far more scary to me than an out of control Toyota. Toyota doesn’t have guns and the power to deny me my rights.
Can anyone give me an amen to the 10th Amendment ?
RG
February 5th, 2010
9:16 am
CT – Here’s a perspective for you: if it costs Toyota $2 Billion dollars to fix a problem that might generate 200 deaths over the next five years, that says Toyota values a human life at something like $10 Million. Do you know what state DOTs value a human life at when deciding to upgrade road works? I believe it is around $5-6 Million. So Toyota values human life MORE HIGHLY than our government. I’d say that’s evidence that private sector is more protective of my safety than my own government…
I scoop ;~] Uleak :>o
February 5th, 2010
9:18 am
It wasn’t me. Honest. I didn’t do it.
It was the Bookman trolls! They did it. Honest.
Okay, I apologize, but when we can’t even quote our leaders’ incidental racism (you know, the racism that happens just by growing up in America) and laugh at their ignorance, so that we can all join hands and move forward together into our brave new world, then we may as well sit around the campfire and wait for the big one, you know?
or as Vanilla Ice might say…..(okay, I better not go there either.)
Curses. What a world.
Road Scholar
February 5th, 2010
9:18 am
RG that cost is before the wrongful death suits!
Sam
February 5th, 2010
9:19 am
RG, that is the strangest logic i’ve ever heard.
NRB2
February 5th, 2010
9:25 am
More government regulation and control? Than get ready to for them to tack on another $5000-$10,000 on top of their current prices.
Simply put: it sucks, but things like this happen. I’ve worked in manufacturing for over 15 years and I can tell you this…no matter how many engineers, inspectors, or layers of paper work you try to filter something through: mistakes happen.
Government regulation will never stop the fact that humans make mistakes.
Plus, we already have a court system. I’m sure Toyota is more afraid of lawsuits than they are some dummy goverment worker who doesn’t know his elbow from his…well, you know.
ctucker
February 5th, 2010
9:25 am
RG, Toyota figured the odds were good that they wouldn’t have to pay a dime. Take a look at the WaPo piece. As long as regulators didn’t trace the problem to Toyota, they didn’t have to shoulder the blame.
Sam
February 5th, 2010
9:27 am
the issue is not the mistake, its toyota ignoring it and doing what it could to not fix it. toyota cares first about profts not people.
NYer
February 5th, 2010
9:27 am
“Among the conservative faithful, one of the fundamental tenets of the faith is that government regulation is bad;”
This is a drastic oversimplification, and one that leads to misunderstandings. Most conservatives don’t believe in zero regulation – we believe in smart regulation, a balance between government oversight and open markets. This is a point often lost on the left, as Cynthia demonstrates.
The fundamental difference is that Cynthia looks at this situation and says “we need more government oversight”. Hogwash. We need for the government oversight that we have to be more effective.
Taken from the article above directly: “The reliance on automakers’ cooperation, however, might have diminished drivers’ say in the safety review process. During agency reviews, officials have at times minimized or simply rejected consumer accounts of what happened in favor of the manufacturers’ assessments, records show.”
Said another way, if the government was less interested in accepting the manufacturers’ assessments and rationale, and more interested in actually performing its regulatory duties, this could have been avoided. I’m sure even Cynthia would agree that our government is supposed to be our advocate in this situation, not a rubber stamp.
More government wouldn’t have solved this problem. The government oversight was already there – it simply wasn’t doing its job. More government rarely leads to more effective government.
While we rightfully criticize Toyota for putting profit above consumer safety, we should also be skewering the NHTSA for being too close to the manufacturers and accepting their explanations.
neo-Carlinist
February 5th, 2010
9:38 am
seems to me this is more an example of faux regulation or the impotence of government. seems to me the market will sort this out – unless of course the government bails out Toyota. in many ways this mess is like the Atlanta/public safety mess. “crime is up – we need more police” as if “more police” (regulation) will do anything beyond increase taxes (and the pension obligations down the road). whether it’s “highway safety” or “homeland security” (or the war on drugs, or climate change), the gub-ment is offering services it cannot provide? this is issue is between consumers and Toyota, and the government’s attempt to “sell insurance” (protection) to consumers is flawed and inept.
Independent
February 5th, 2010
9:42 am
Whoa, CT. 234 injuries is alot? They’ve been using these accelerators for 5 years. That’s 47 injuries a year. Not alot by any stretch. I’m not downplaying it because it hasn’t happened to me, it’s just a very rare occurance. The stats back that up. If there are 57 annual fatalities from vehicle fires that were NOT the result of a crash, is not safe to assume that many, if not most, are caused by car itself?
Surely you remember during your days in ATL the traffic reports and the noted ‘car-b-ques’. Don’t even try to say noncrash car fires and fatalities are mostly the result of careless smoking.
Chris
February 5th, 2010
9:49 am
The pressure put upon Toyota by the Feds was not altruistic…It came down from the auto labor union & Government Motors. They saw an opportunity to punish a successful company and hoped to diminish Toyota to la evel that GM could compete with. And down the road crush the auto companies that did not use the UAW. 16 deaths from over 4 millions cars in use, while tragic, is not an overwhelming disaster….I am personally not convinced that even the deaths in questions did not have other factors in their accidents besides a sticky gas pedal
Dunwoody Mike
February 5th, 2010
9:55 am
Chris,
So you are saying the government should have put no pressure on Toyota at all? Just let the situation continue? That sounds like the goverment would not be living up to the “promote the general welfare” phrase from the Preamble.
Tricky
February 5th, 2010
10:04 am
Please change the subject. Boring.
Sam
February 5th, 2010
10:10 am
chris, you dont really believe that do you?
Chris
February 5th, 2010
10:12 am
Dunwoody Mike….I just wanted folks to know the Government has alterior motives for what they do…If it is purely a case of “Promoting the general welfare, why have they not recalled GM models with the same troubles? Over the last year there have been more deaths in the USA from GM model cars that were possibly caused by sticky pedals, than by Toyotas
Sam
February 5th, 2010
10:15 am
is today crazy conspiracy theory day?
Chris
February 5th, 2010
10:15 am
Sam..I do believe ehat I said…But of course that does not mean I am right…Just think there is more to it than only the Gov looking out for us poor slubs…
Jess
February 5th, 2010
10:16 am
So the answer is obvious. We need to create a federal dept. of “sticky brakes”. Wouldn’t hurt to have a “sticky brake” czar as well just for good measure.
Chris
February 5th, 2010
10:19 am
Good point Jess…Where do we draw the line at the govenment’s desire for a Nanny State?
JohnD
February 5th, 2010
10:19 am
The free market did not correct Toyota’s shoddy workmanship. It was consumer complaints to the government. The “free market” ain’t free, its controlled by those with the most money and market share.
All you “free marketeers” and “teabaggers” out there are just shills for giant corporations and you’re too brain dead to realize it.
Corporations don’t care about you. And with five Supreme Court Judges in their pocket, they don’t have to.
Fred21
February 5th, 2010
10:23 am
Unfortunately what Toyota sees in our government is a competitor since Uncle Sam has a stake in GM. Still, one has to ask…”what the heck was Toyota thinking!” Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac taught us that government regulation fixes NOTHING, though. Toyota will learn not to screw consumers when they see sales drop through the floor.
Daedalus
February 5th, 2010
10:24 am
So Chris — Toyota cars did not have accelerator or brake problems?
The government boogey-man and unions made the whole thing up?
Then why did Toyota agree (reluctantly) to a recall? They stuck to their “its the floor mat” story for years.
So I guess all those people who were in accidents because of bad brakes or accelerator problems are either delusional or had it coming?
Brilliant!
ATLshirt.com
February 5th, 2010
10:26 am
Some people are ignoring the fact that the gas pedal that is causing the problem is made here in the great ole USA while the Toyota’s that are using gas pedals from Japan are not having the same problem…
DAVID; AJC Truth Detector
February 5th, 2010
10:27 am
a Ms. Karl Marx…….AND WHO WILL PROTECT US FROM INCOMPETENCE IN gov’t
Chris
February 5th, 2010
10:31 am
Daedalus..I, as the consumer, with the power to choose what and from whom I buy something, is far less worried about the “evil” corporations out there, than I am about allowing our government full power and authority over all aspects of my life to make those choices for me
This is what I think
February 5th, 2010
10:31 am
Having worked under government regulations — the answer isn’t “more government regulations” . . . it is better oversite of the regulations. There are plenty of government regulations. . . in fact, too many! Sometimes the regulations are a hodge-podge of mandates put in place by differing Congresses and do not make sense . . .not to mention poor oversite. So more regulations do not equate to better and safer products. Government gets an F in this regard!
Peadawg
February 5th, 2010
10:31 am
Sam: “is today crazy conspiracy theory day?”
In Cynthia’s world, every day is crazy conspiracy theory day.
ctucker
February 5th, 2010
10:34 am
Ah, Peadawg. Is that my compliment for the day?