LaHood rips Georgia on high-speed rail
Why didn’t Georgia get more money for high-speed rail?
“Georgia doesn’t have its act together. The state legislature doesn’t want to put money in for high-speed rail,” Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said this morning, after I asked him why Georgia only received $750,000.
“Any region that got money had their act together,” LaHood said, at a breakfast briefing for journalists. He also pointed out that he visited Atlanta last year and had an informal “town hall meeting” with several officials. (The visit was in Sept.)
“Some fellow stood up and asked me how Georgia could get money for high-speed rail. I said, ‘Get your act together.” Unless a state has its act together, with money and a plan that connects things, you’re not going to get money.” (See excerpts from a Sept. news story on LaHood’s visit below.)
A journalist from Texas — a state which also fared poorly — asked whether “indigenous political support” had anything to do with whether a state received funding. LaHood assured him that it didn’t. “We’ve given money to states where the Congressional delegation voted against the stimulus package,” he said.
My colleague Jim Galloway has noted that Sonny Perdue and John Lewis have pointed fingers at each other for the state’s poor showing:
Gov. Sonny Perdue and U.S. Rep. John Lewis, Georgia’s longest-serving member of Congress are having words over who’s at fault for the state’s transportation dilemma.
Last week, the Obama administration awarded Florida $1.25 billion for a high-speed rail project. North Carolina was handed $525 million.
And Georgia received $750,000.
Sounds like Lewis may have been right.
From an AJC news story on Sept. 22. 2009:
The nation’s top transportation official said Monday that high-speed rail will indeed come to Atlanta — “if Georgia gets its act together.”
The statement by U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood drew fervent applause from the audience in downtown Atlanta, which included many mass transit advocates who believe Georgia has long neglected passenger rail projects in favor of building more roads.
“He did not lie, ” said Clayton County Commission Chairman Eldrin Bell, who supports the proposed commuter rail line south through Lovejoy.
LaHood met with several organizations, including the Atlanta Regional Commission and The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
The Obama administration’s priorities for transportation contrast with the Bush administration’s. Bush’s transportation secretary, Mary Peters, last visited Atlanta to give Georgia $110 million to put variable tolls on the HOV lane of I-85 in Gwinnett County. In the Bush administration’s six-point strategy to relieve congestion, the word “rail” was not mentioned.
The Obama administration is putting $8 billion toward high-speed rail. LaHood’s donation event took place at MARTA’s Five Points station, where he gave MARTA $10.8 million in federal stimulus funds for solar-panel bus shelters.
LaHood said he didn’t know about the I-85 project. And while he supported tolling as a way to pay for new roads, he told the AJC, he didn’t much care for putting tolls on lanes that the taxpayers had already built.
Gov. Sonny Perdue attended the MARTA event. Asked what he thought of LaHood’s remark about high-speed rail, Perdue replied, “I agree with him.” The state Department of Transportation has recently appointed a new director of intermodal programs who is working to win some of the high-speed rail money.
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80 comments Add your comment
demwit
February 3rd, 2010
10:47 am
A high speed rail to where!? Tybee island??
Davo
February 3rd, 2010
10:48 am
“… $10.8 million in federal stimulus funds for solar-panel bus shelters.”
Ha hahaha. You just can’t make this stuff up.
Peadawg
February 3rd, 2010
10:52 am
Atlanta’s already crowded enough…they don’t a “high speed rail”.
Shawny
February 3rd, 2010
11:00 am
Florida and North Carolina should have gotten nothing, like GA should have gotten nothing.
quod erat demonstrandum
February 3rd, 2010
11:07 am
I like the explanation – “Georgia doesn’t have its act together.”
Sounds like new-speak – but what does it mean, how does one get ones act together.
Is this high speed rail between major cities or to some small town no one heard of.
Shawny
February 3rd, 2010
11:09 am
All we need is HOV lanes added and extended into and around the city, and traffic will flow much more smoothly.
And no, not those stupid proposed HOT toll lanes. Huge chunks of money for high speed rail lines are boondoggle pet projects that are a waste of money.
So What, Who Cares?
February 3rd, 2010
11:29 am
High speed rail is a boondoggle that will end in massive cost over runs and poor rail service. America is much larger than Europe or Japan, running high speed trains for thousands of miles just will not work. For one thing, protecting the rail lines will be impossible, not just against terrorists, but against animals, people on the tracks, objects on the tracks. Can you imagine a collision between a cow and a train at 200 miles per hour? Remember, the energy in the collision increases with the SQUARE of the velocity. The train would derail at 200 mph, and all aboard would die, just like in a plane landing at 130 mph hitting an object. Europe is much more compact, and such high speed lines can be protected. Why the need for speed anyway? Sixty to ninety mph is fast enough for me.
ctucker
February 3rd, 2010
11:29 am
High-speed rail connects major cities, say, Atlanta to Savannah. Or Atlanta to Charlotte
Turd Ferguson
February 3rd, 2010
11:45 am
What about a high speed rail from my place of employment to my residence? Now thats change I can live with!
Turd Ferguson
February 3rd, 2010
11:51 am
Wonder how many trillions of dollars it would cost for a high speed rail line, cost overruns etc from say Atlanta to Macon and the amount of time it would take for said rail line to break even or turn a profit?
ctucker
February 3rd, 2010
12:12 pm
Do the interstate highways “turn a profit?”
Csquared
February 3rd, 2010
12:17 pm
point was, why did GA not get any money for High Speed rail, not the feasibility of it. The reasons we didn’t share in that pot and why the Gov shouldn’t be castigating anyone are clear. We DON’T have our act together. Meaning setting up some reasonable plan for the system rather than spending consulting money on studies. without knowing the particulars of who got the study money, i’d give even money they’re contributors to someone’s campaign or more buddies of Sonny…
Whacks Eloquent
February 3rd, 2010
12:21 pm
“What about a high speed rail from my place of employment to my residence? Now thats change I can live with!”
Agreed, Ferguson. Why would it matter to most people if they can get to DC a couple of hours faster by train? It still won’t be faster than air travel, and the costs are already about the same. On the other hand, rapid rail for commuters makes a lot more sense, especially for Atlanta. I can see high speed rail for Florida, they rely almost entirely on tourism, and the faster they can get em in and move em around, the better!
Sadly, I don’t think we have our act together on commuter rail, either, but we have a chance to make that an issue with the gubernatorial race this year.
ctucker
February 3rd, 2010
12:35 pm
Rapid rail for commuters is an excellent idea. But anyone thinking about what the future will look like will also support high-speed rail. Right now, it won’t be faster than air travel and the costs are about the same. But before the recession, big airports were becoming increasingly crowded, with more and more delays on runways. No community wants to host a new major airport. So high-speed rail could pick up a lot of increased transport needs in the next 30 to 40 years.
professional skeptic
February 3rd, 2010
12:36 pm
Rail travel lowers America’s dependency on oil produced by countries who hate us. Freeing America from dependency on countries who hate is a good thing.
Kevin
February 3rd, 2010
12:38 pm
If you’ve never traveled, for example, within Europe or Japan via high speed rail, you don’t know what you’re missing. It’s the only way to go. I honestly how someone could experience these trains, and not want them in the US. They’re that good.
I fully support high-speed rail for inter-city train service.
BeBeKID
February 3rd, 2010
12:40 pm
The first link of the Florida high speed rail linking Orlando to Tampa is under extreme criticism because many feel that it will not have the number of passengers to be profitable. According to some so called experts many people will prefer to use their cars to make the 90 minute I-4 drive between Orlando and Tampa instead of using a train that decreases the commute to 36 minutes and reduces gridlock. As bad as the economy is down here the jobs the rail will bring is needed more than a hog needs slop!
ctucker
February 3rd, 2010
12:42 pm
Yep. And Georgia could have used those jobs, too.
ctucker
February 3rd, 2010
12:43 pm
Lots of people haven’t experienced them, Kevin. Until he became governor, that included Sonny Perdue. He became a fan of high-speed rail after a trade visit to Europe.
NYorker
February 3rd, 2010
12:45 pm
NO HIGH SPEED RAIL MAKE SENSE IN THE SOUTH, 1st do it from Chitown-NYC. If that works then maybe just maybe it would make sense to do elsewhere.
Now if the gov’t/unions run it, forget it. no sense since the labor cost would be way high and they would suck all the money out.
fred smith
February 3rd, 2010
12:46 pm
Sounds like the reason GA was left out in the cold is adequately represented above. Variation on an old story – “When the wagon trains were headed south, there came a fork in the road. The sign with an arrow to the right said ‘North Carolina’ and the one straight ahead said ‘Georgia.’ Those who could read went to North Carolina.” We don’t have a school problem here, we have an intelligence problem: most of the populace is simply too stupid to learn. There are many models of how rail solves people transit both in the country and around the world. As someone noted not long ago, someone in Georgia was smart enough to make the airport happen (note, like rail, it’s not state supported here), and voila, Georgia became the major economic hub of the south. However, Atlanta is destined to become the Detroit of the south, not because it’s a one business town but because businesses in general are smart enough to see that the Georgia electorate is simply too inept to elect responsible, foresighted (or honest) public servants who can plan beyond keeping seat belts out of pickup trucks and keep the engine going. No water (no planning much less action) and gridlock (no planning much less action). It is way, way, way, way too late for Georgia to fix itself in time to compete with the other states; there’s no point in trying to get backwoods governors and legislators to act as if they were actually serving their public. Might as well move on out, folks. If you can read.
resno2
February 3rd, 2010
12:47 pm
“Georgia doesn’t have its act together”
I guess they took a look at MARTA.
Whacks Eloquent
February 3rd, 2010
12:58 pm
fred
Seems to me like not long ago Charlotte was behind the 8-ball. I mean, they just recently finished their perimeter (485, it’s nice) and added a light rail (no subway there). Yet they managed to do just fine without those seeming necessities. Why is a high-speed rail link to DC necessary for survival? Answer – it isn’t. It would be nice, sure, and Atlanta will be part of it as they link more cities in the South – New Orleans, Houston, Dallas, etc.
Keep in mind that the money Sec’y Lahood is talking about is STUDY money, and it is going to groups that will plan stuff. Fine, whatever. That money will be spent but nothing will be built from it. A recent MARTA study showed the cost of heavy rail (subway) at $235 million per mile, light rail (commuter rail) at $75 million per mile. I don’t know specifically about high-speed rail, but it will be somewhere in between I’d guess. You have to upgrade tracks, add in double tracks where they don’t exist, and find some sort of power delivery (Acela is electric). We don’t have any of that (ex some double tracking) outside of the Northeast.
Much bigger bucks will be needed for building this stuff. Hey I am for it…but where to come up with the money? Stimulus plans won’t cut it, it has to be a whole new layer. Cut some from Pentagon? Sounds good, but good luck…Cynthia, did Sec’y Lahood give any idea as to where they expected the actual building funds to come from? I hope they have a plan, but I kinda doubt it at this point.
By the time it does happen, it won’t matter that Georgia did not receive more study money. It would look and be stupid for that Florida-Washington line to try to bypass our state…
Davo
February 3rd, 2010
1:09 pm
The aptly named ‘Field of Dreams’ philosphy…if you build it they will come. What a waste.
BTW; when is white history month?
jm
February 3rd, 2010
1:12 pm
For you twits who haven’t figured out Charlotte has become the banking capital of the South, there is a real need to travel to Charlotte now by business people in Atlanta. Rail would be a better and faster alternative. Although rail to Savannah, Macon, Brunswick, Birmingham, Chattanooga, Nashville, etc. would be nice, if we can’t build a line to Charlotte to begin with, we’re sunk. Remember, the reason Charlotte is now the banking capital of the south – and second largest in the nation – is because they were more progressive with their banking laws while the rednecks running the show watched change pass them by.
onlinesavant
February 3rd, 2010
1:16 pm
“He (Sonny Perdue.) became a fan of high speed rail after experiencing them in Europe.” Typical of a regressive. Being against something that make total sense, until they are in the position that obviate their use for it. Abortion? Against it until they or their child needs one. Benefits form stem cell research? Ditto. Government in general (The police, fire services, social security, medicare, roads, FDA, etc.) Cythia, you know the deal. No one does hypocrisy better than the regressives. So anyway, on to the actual subject matter. Lack of American investment in high-speed rail,(After all, we DID invent maglev technology.) is just another example of arrogance, and willful ignorance prevailing over rationality, (Single payer health care, Public financing of campaign, RAISING TAXES to pay for needed investments.) to the detriment of America’s place in the world. Quite honestly, I think it has more to do with racism than any other element. The majority’s desire to not see any other group gain (From in their belief, THEIR tax dollars. As if no one pays taxes BUT them.) is why Atlanta is highway-saturated, and public transportation deficient. High-speed rails falls under the same category. When will we, “get our act together?” Unfortunately, I fear it won’t be until there is some kind of cataclysm (Real or imagined.) that then will force the citizenry to act upon a sane course of action, that should have been undertaken all along.
ctucker
February 3rd, 2010
1:18 pm
Davo, You’re about to be banished to the muttonheads’ blog if you keep up the “white history month”?
Davo
February 3rd, 2010
1:21 pm
“Davo, You’re about to be banished to the muttonheads’ blog if you keep up the “white history month”?”
Couldn’t have asked for a better reply! Thanks, CT.
scrappy
February 3rd, 2010
1:28 pm
GA doesn’t have its act together because the politicians and the southerners they represent keep hoping that the northerners will eventually move back home and they won’t need rail or roads or any more growth.
So What, Who Cares?
February 3rd, 2010
1:31 pm
Well, a National high speed rail system starting in 2010 could do for the country what the start of the Interstate highway system did starting in the 1950’s, but I doubt it. In the 1950’s the country lacked a good highway system, yet automobile travel was growing rapidly. So the interstate system met a real need, and opened the country up for development. With high speed rail, we will not be opening up new area’s for development, and people already have all the cars they will ever need. I just do not see high speed rail meeting a real need, it is just pie in the sky fluff, very expensive fluff, but fluff nevertheless. At a time of near National bankruptcy, we need to be much more judicious in how we speed the BORROWED money needed for this project. Right now, Washington can print all the dollars needed, but in a few years that will no longer be possible. The world will no longer accept endless streams of freshly printed green paper for its collective wealth. What will YOU and Washington do then? Remember, your Social Security retirement and Medicare Health Insurance hangs in the balance. By spending these borrowed billions today, we will be precluding paying Social Security to millions tomorrow.
TarHeelBred bleeds TarHeelBlue
February 3rd, 2010
1:31 pm
Cynthia: I disagree with you on one point that you made earlier when you asked if interstate highways turn a profit. Actually, interstate highways annually turn a huge profit in the way that interstates make it even more possible to transport goods and raw materials through each part of the production process from agricultural harvest to manufacture to market. The Interstate System has made the ground transport and shipping of goods by truck much easier, much quicker and much more convenient helping more goods to be bought and sold which has helped governments at all levels (federal, state, local) be able to collect increased income, sales and property taxes which in turn has enabled government(s) to provide an increased level of service since the Interstate System’s inception over 50-plus years ago.
Some places where rail transit advocates seem to sometimes go wrong in trying sell the public on the advantages of investing in and funding rail transportation is not telling how it can turn a profit to the public at large (by atrracting more businesses, the majority of which these days want to be located to areas that are highly accessible by both roads and rail). Rail advocates also seem to leave out the fact that high-speed rail can carry both people and freight over intermediate to long distances to complement both road and air transportation. One place where high-speed rail would increase movement of freight is from Atlanta to the Port of Savannah, which over the last decade has become one of the busiest deep seaports in the world. Helping to better connect Atlanta with the critical seaport at Savannah could do nothing but enhance Atlanta’s stature as an up-and-coming international industrial capital while giving it the ground connection to do so.
Bubba
February 3rd, 2010
1:40 pm
Perhaps a journalist from Georgia could have asked him what he meant by “getting its act together.” Sounds like something a football coach would say to Erin Andrews on the way off the field at halftime. “We need to get our act together!”
ctucker
February 3rd, 2010
1:42 pm
We know all that about the interstate system now — in hindsight. Dwight Eisenhower built the interstates to aid the movement of men and materiel in case the U.S. was invaded by the Soviets. Yes, he thought there would be other benefits. But I doubt if any of the original planners knew what interstates would mean to us today. I suspect the same would be true of high speed rail.
Thoreau
February 3rd, 2010
1:55 pm
Next to Social Security (perhaps even bigger in terms of lifecycle costs), highways; specifically public funding of highways (also local roads, bridges, sidewalks, street lighting) has got to be the nation’s largest social welfare program. Yet nobody dares ask where the profitability comes from in our public subsidy of the auto industry. Let’s face it, neither Detroit nor Tokyo could sell one dollar’s-worth of vehicles without the public investing at least as much in the roads they drive on. Why then do we continually expect roads to be in the public domain, rails to be in the private domain, and condemn public transit to be self-sufficient, when we continue to over-invest (over-spend to the so called Conservatives) in building and barely maintaining roads that have reached their effective capacity and usefulness? One way or the other we can either subsidize our commutes with the time wasted sitting in traffic or we can do it sitting in trains we’ve paid-for, while we read, text, talk, or do any number of productive things we can’t do while sitting in gridlock. Wake-up Georgia and get the %$#@! out of my way!
Joey
February 3rd, 2010
1:57 pm
The proposed Macon-Lovejoy-Atlanta Rail service (partially funded) is not a high-speed project.
The proposed Athens-Atlanta Rail service is not a high-speed project,
The conceptual Chattanooga-Atlanta MAG-LEV line is high speed, but it is a concept and barely that, not a proposed line.
ctucker
February 3rd, 2010
1:57 pm
The state legislature needed to put in some serious money. And the state needed to have a plan that made sense: where the rail would go; how many passengers might use it, etc.
Whacks Eloquent
February 3rd, 2010
1:59 pm
Joey,
When the commuter rails are referred to as “rapid transit” I don’t think anyone is implying they will incorporate high-speed train type speeds. That would be pretty dangerous in an urban setting, only makes sense for longer distance trains – like Chattanooga-Atlanta. I think our transportation money – at least here in Atlanta – would be better served by funding commuter rail rather than intracity links. Those would be nice, but ultimately the area is best served first by being more internally efficient. I don’t know where we’ll come up with the money for either option though.
joan
February 3rd, 2010
2:02 pm
Maybe we ought to get someone to replace Lewis. Maybe that someone would cause the staties to get their act together, rather than simply place-sitting until they die.
onlinesavant
February 3rd, 2010
2:07 pm
tubularrail.com
lovelyliz
February 3rd, 2010
2:07 pm
It’s about priorities. Loads of $$$$$$ to try and attract a NASCAR museum and nothing for high speed rail.
Scout
February 3rd, 2010
2:07 pm
Yawn ………………..
Whacks Eloquent
February 3rd, 2010
2:10 pm
Now that’s a new one! Would need some serious PR to get people to ride it, but it sounds cool to me!
Chris Broe
February 3rd, 2010
2:14 pm
The problem is that Metro-Atlanta’s business growth plan depends on one car per commuter. Carpooling is too hard. What if one clown has a slow morning? It ruins the commute for everyone else. Being late can get you fired fast. It just doesn’t work. Atlantans are forced to drive by their lonesomes to work. It’s the law of industrial parks.
A high speed rail would not change that fact. So what if you can catch a rail from Dallas to Underground Atlanta. Then what? You’d have to walk to the hotel you wash dishes at (or the McDonalds you make fries at anyway).
No, we need to widen roads. Wide roads are the answer. Or make cars narrower. Like those mini-cars from India. They only cost $2k. And they’re teeny tiny.
Cars from India come with unique benefits, too. Their accelerators don’t stick, so there’s less chance of you ending up in a caste. (sorry). The brakes engage automatically at cow crossings. If you miss a car payment, the car duns you itself. Best of all, if you are killed in an auto-accident, you get reincarnated as a convenience store clerk.
The point is that if we finally admit that we only drive to work alone, then we can plan the future road projects more efficiently.
ctucker
February 3rd, 2010
2:18 pm
To clear up some confusion: High-speed rail isn’t about local commutes. It’s designed to connect distant cities, much like air travel. For commuter traffic, you need an expanded MARTA and commuter rail. (Metro DC and Metro NY have both)
TarHeelBred bleeds TarHeelBlue
February 3rd, 2010
2:27 pm
Cynthia: I suspect that many rail (high-speed, commuter rail, light rail, freight, etc) planners have kind of seen ahead into the future to see the increased role that rail transport may very well play in America’s future development. As we’ve started to see over the last decade or so, in particular, the auto-overdependent lifestyle that permeates American culture has started to look less and less sustainable in a myriad of ways some of which include $4 and $5/gallon-plus gas, overconsumption of available land (irresponsible and wasteful land use through sprawling overdevelopment), negative effects on physical and mental health (need use of automobiles to go almost everywhere while being relatively isolated from next-door neighbors and community), not to mention not being able to avoid urban roads maxed-out with traffic because of lack of other commuting options and the slowing of the shipping of freight because of the same mammoth traffic jams, etc…
The now still-prevalent development patterns of spread out automobile-dependent sprawl have only been popular since the end of World War II and took off with the advent of the Interstate System and the business and political lobbying (and conspiring) of the then-Big Three automakers desire to drive many of the urban cable-car and trolley companies out of business so that most working Americans would have no choice but to buy one their vehicles to get around to work, home, church, shopping, etc. In Atlanta alone over the last decade we’ve seen that trend start to reverse a little as the traffic just became too unbearable at peak times, especially while the economy was enjoying near-full employment.
jt
February 3rd, 2010
2:28 pm
One has to consider the source.
Since when does the Fed have IT’S act together?
Keep your ill-gotten funds La Hood.
Joey
February 3rd, 2010
2:34 pm
Whacks and Cynthia;
I am not the least confused about what is high-speed rail.
The term Rapid Transit is no longer in vogue because public transit is anything but rapid. Almost every public transit option requires a longer commute time, when measured from home-to-work and work-to-home, than using one’s personal vehicle. That is why commuters choose the convenience of driving.
If we really want to get people out of their cars and onto public transit we should follow the NYC model, which is eliminate parking spaces. That is not going to happen in Atlanta. For a good example of providing parking look to the AJC Offices or even better look to the MARTA joint-venture development at Lindberg Station.
TarHeelBred bleeds TarHeelBlue
February 3rd, 2010
2:55 pm
Joey: I don’t think that you would even have to go so far as to eliminate parking spaces to motivate people in the Atlanta area, and for that matter, North and even Middle Georgia. I think that all that you would have to do is provide “rapid-transit” and not merely just minimal “public-transportation”. By this I mean just providing a high-quality alternative to automobile commuting which doesn’t really exist now especially with the poorly-perceived bare-bones MARTA and the few minimal local bus services in nearby core metro counties (Cobb, Gwinnett, Clayton).
The Atlanta-Lovejoy-Macon line (which should be extended south to at least Warner Robins), the Atlanta-Athens line and the Atlanta-Chattanooga line (which consist of both a high-speed long-distance rail line and a commuter-rail line with local stops in Cartersville, Calhoun, Dalton, etc) would be good places to start providing those alternatives.
This is what I think
February 3rd, 2010
3:11 pm
“A journalist from Texas — a state which also fared poorly — asked whether “indigenous political support” had anything to do with whether a state received funding. LaHood assured him that it didn’t. “We’ve given money to states where the Congressional delegation voted against the stimulus package,” he said.” Anyone who believes this is crazy. It is all about politics . . . even if the Congressional delegations in those states voted against the stimulus bill maybe, just maybe it is the voters the LaHood and his party is going after!
TarHeelBred bleeds TarHeelBlue
February 3rd, 2010
3:20 pm
Cynthia: You stated earlier that the state legislature needed to have a serious plan with some serious money. Wouldn’t that require having seriously competent leadership under the Gold Dome, which Georgia just hasn’t really had in the last few years?
The last three years have been increasingly embarrassing for Georgians who have actually expected something productive of state government. From the lack of interest and leadership from Governor Sonny-Do-Nothing Perdue (Go Fish Georgia, “austerity” cuts to education, his timely disappearance during the gas shortage in ‘08 and lack of action on transportation) and the erratic, insane and corrupt behavior of former House Speaker Glenn “Romeo” Richardson and his overreactions to constant goading and baiting by fellow Republican Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle (these are all Republicans fighting each other like their on completely opposite sides of the political spectrum) to sessions of the General Assembly that seemingly at times embarrassingly and shamefully descended into complete and total lunacy while the world burned.
Unfortunately, the Georgia General Assembly wasn’t the only local governmental entity that has been responsible for the current sorry state of the state on many matters including transportation. I can name off several local city and county governments that at times seem to be closer to a demented and rudderless comedy routine than an actual governing body to be taken seriously by its constitutents. Just take a look at the Atlanta City Council, the Fulton County Board of Commissioners, the Marietta City Council, the Gwinnett County Board of Commissioners, the City of Snellville, etc as just a few perennial examples of local governments that at times seem to be lost in the woods of incompetence.
Joey
February 3rd, 2010
3:25 pm
TarHeel:
I respectfully disagree about what motivates commuters. Convenience, as each person defines convenience for himself, is what determines the mode of transportation he uses. As long as there is more than sufficient parking, most people will choose to drive.
When people talk about traffic into Atlanta from Chattanooga, Greenville, Athens or Macon, one major issue is almost always overlooked. How many of the possible riders have an ultimate destination inside the perimeter. In my mind, not many. So how are they going to get to Fayetteville, or Covington or Snellville or Buford or Canton or Ackworth or Douglasville. They would need to rent cars or transfer to other trains or buses.
Reality is that from Chattanooga, Greenville, Athens or Macon any one can get to any place in metro Atlanta by personal vehicle in 1.5 to 3 hours. Whereas going to the Macon terminal, waiting for then loading on a train, then getting off at some point and finding transportation to Norcross would take 3 to 4 hour and a lot of hassle.
I say all of this and I support the commuter rail. I am just realistic about it use.
Joey
February 3rd, 2010
3:33 pm
TarHeel:
After that 3:20 of yours a legitimate question might be:
Then why are you here?
I regret that I won’t be around until morning to read your response and possibly continue the discussion.
Iconoclast
February 3rd, 2010
4:00 pm
Ever wonder how our society will plunk-down billions of dollars to move a mass of sh_t through tunnels, but we refuse to spend one thin dime moving working people through simialr conduits?
A turd can now get across town faster than its maker!
Priorities people, get your p-r-i-o-r-i-t-i-e-s straight!
ctucker
February 3rd, 2010
4:05 pm
laHood is a Republican, This is what I think.
TarHeelBred bleeds TarHeelBlue
February 3rd, 2010
4:13 pm
Joey: Anyone can get from Chattanooga, Greenville, Athens or Macon to anyplace in Metro Atlanta by personal vehicle in 1.5 to 3 hours IF the weather is clear and the roads are accident-free. If it has been raining or snowing or if a bus catches fire, there is a multi-car pileup, a pedustrian jumps from an overpass, a pedustrian is hit while walking in traffic or there is a wild police chase, that 1.5 to 3 hour-trip can take substantially LONGER.
My job quite frequently takes me all over the metro area and much of Georgia and into surrounding states. I’ve been out on I-75, I-85 and I-20 during morning rush hour trying to get back to Atlanta after a long night of work while an accident, a police action or bad weather incident has had traffic tied up into knots and backed up into a parking lot that stretches for 10, 20 or sometimes close to 30 miles. I’ve seen the really bad traffic on I-75 south during both morning and evening rush hours, I’ve been tied up in Cobb County on I-75 in the morning trying to find an alternate route into the city with no luck (Hwy 41 was gridocked as well). I’ve also been stuck on the 10-lane section of I-85 southbound that “bottlenecks” down to seven southbound lanes in Gwinnett during a morning rush-hour rainstorm and I’ve been stuck in TOTAL gridlock on the six-lane sections of I-20 both east and west of the city during both morning and evening rush hours in backups that were caused by both serious accidents and the mere action of one motorist hitting their brakes. I’ve darn near seen it all when it comes to traffic backups and I can tell you that the state ain’t exactly setting the world ablaze in timely road infrastructure investments either (lack of auxilary “exit-only lanes” between close interchanges causing traffic to frequently bottleneck as well as a lack of HOV lanes, especially on I-20 east, I-20 west and I-75 south).
Also keep in mind that high-speed rail, commuter rail, light rail and heavy rail corridors would becomes nodes that would help guide future development to be more compact and people-friendly as opposed to just car-friendly auto-dependent development we see now. Rail would be a development tool in addition to being a complement to auto travel, which would not become obsolete, but would continue to be a travel option for those that choose it. Don’t forget that trains of all modes would run quite frequently like the METRA commuter trains and the system would integrated to serve high-speed, commuter rail, light rail, heavy rail, local bus and express bus all at the same time so one could take the commuter rail from, lets say, Macon to a Grand Central-type multimodal station at Five Points and transfer to a commuter rail line runs northeast out of the city that parallels I-85 North. That would be only one transfer if one chose to ride commuter rail that day either because they didn’t want to drive or the weather happened to be inclement and they knew that traffic was going to be hellish trying to get up I-75 from Macon through the Henry County bottleneck, up I-675 to I-285 around the Eastside through almost standstill traffic conditions that day (just look at what a few sprinkles on any given day can do to North Georgia traffic).
Barry Osborne
February 3rd, 2010
4:29 pm
I’ve been spotty in my reading and have fallen behind. Who is Muttonhead?
StevenCee
February 3rd, 2010
4:32 pm
Many of the comments here certainly help to explain what the Trans. Sec, meant by Georgia “not having it’s act together”. For some reason, many residents here wish to cling to the past, well, a big part of why the entire metro area is in gridlock.
Whether it’s refusing to support MARTA, for fear black people would follow, or in regards to rail, high-speed or otherwise, believing more pavement will be the solution, we now find the region, and state, falling years behind more forward-thinking places around the country. A modernized railway system would greatly relieve the massive congestion, as well as providing another, less stressful, alternative to having to drive or fly places. And since trains can carry huge amounts of cargo, it would take thousands of trucks off the roads, another big plus.
WIthout Atlanta providing a better quality of life, an educated populace, and a progressive-minded government, we’ll soon see the end of companies & people choosing to make this their home. Then let’s see what the unemployment figures look like!
TarHeelBred bleeds TarHeelBlue
February 3rd, 2010
4:36 pm
Joey: In response to your question at 3:33 pm, I am in Georgia because it is a great state with an increasingly international flair and a ton of potential upside and a state with a fairly robust job market in good economic times. Despite of all of its potential, Georgia has got to “get its act together” when its comes to investing in infrastructure of all forms, especially roads, rail and education. “Getting its act together” doesn’t mean coming up with another new transportation plan, it means having the political will and leadership to execute the myriad of rail and road plans it already has and having the creativity to get the plan funded and enacted in both the worst and best of economic and political environments.
If the public won’t let you fund a transportation plan through a tax increase then use the state’s AAA bond-rating to buy bonds to get the critically-needed infrastructure built and pay those bonds back and maintain the new infrastructure through increased user fees in form of higher fares and tolls on highways. Take on public-private partnerships. Grow a backbone, exhibit a spine and show some leadership, show some courage, show some political will and have some vision on an issue that is oh-so-very critical to the state’s future. Don’t cower and hide from every loudmouth interest group that raises an objection, take the time to do your job and explain why action on this issue MUST be done immediately.
Dudecicle
February 3rd, 2010
4:47 pm
“Georgia, the land of broad boulevards and narrow minds.”
Doug Alexander
February 3rd, 2010
6:14 pm
CT, we have more studies than we know what to do with. I know, I helped write some of them. We know what will work, both for commuter and for intercity rail. We just need to get busy building the system. We could have already had such trains into and out of Atlanta and throughout Ga. but there are muttonheads on both sides of the aisle under the dome and we’ve gotten nowhere.
Don
February 4th, 2010
8:31 am
Tarheel and Doug Alexander have it exactly right.
GA’s only project submitted for the “HSR sweepstakes” was for 79 mph service between Macon and Atlanta, with a vague, longer term plan for 110 mph service on the route. First and foremost, the top half of the line is the Lovejoy/Griffin commuter rail line that the state has left Fed $$ lay on the table for years now because the state Gov’t can’t come up with the match to get construction started. Strike one. Second, the plan just barely meets the criteria for an “emerging HSR corridor” since there isn’t really much meat behind the eventual increase to 110 mph speeds. Strike two. Finally, the ridership on that line compared to the others proposals that won would be tiny. Strike three, you’re out! Low ridership corridor + slow speed + excellent chance the state gov’t would ignore the grant = FAILURE.
Lt Col
February 4th, 2010
9:40 am
Just to set the record straight, High-Speed-Rail is NOT a transit program. It’s a rail program under the Federal Railroad Administration. “Commuter rail” is transit – intercity rail isn’t.
Georgia is missing out on many opportunities to improve both transit and rail services in the state. Money is the problem. Georgia is the only state in the country to NOT subsidize transit systems, like MARTA. Georgia’s constitution prohibits the use of gasoline taxes to be used to fund alternative modes of transportation. The highway construction lobbists have ensured that it stays that way. Meanwhile, thousands of commuters are stuck in Atlanta’s traffic, millions of gallons of gasoline are consumed by cars that are going nowhere, and tons of noxious emissions are polluting the very air we breathe.
Georgia must “get its act together” if it has any hope of Federal monies to alleviate its transportation quagmire.
ctucker
February 4th, 2010
9:44 am
Excellent comments, Lt. Col. I tried to make that clarification, as well.
ctucker
February 4th, 2010
11:31 am
Snark, I think I should apply for it, don’t you?
The Snark
February 4th, 2010
11:52 am
Oh hell yes.
The Snark, as always, tips his hat to your fine work.
Art Vandalay
February 4th, 2010
1:11 pm
Enter your comments here
Art Vandalay
February 4th, 2010
1:16 pm
I Agree 100% that we need commuter rail first, we may be the largest metro area not to have any. BUT to say the traffic in Atlanta is so bad that it will affect our ability to attract and retain businesses is just stupid. Have you been to Knoxville, Nashville, Orlando, Jacksonville, Tampa…studies can come to ATL and continue polling the few people that commute from Canton and Cartersville about their commute, but for the majority of us the rush hour traffic in those cities is exponentially worse, and they are much smaller metro areas. Atlanta likes to complain about its congestion but it honestly is no worse than many other places. Go drive at rush hour in Chicago which has commuter rail, 1000 times worse than Atlanta. We need rail for future growth but currently our situation isn’t dire.
scott
February 4th, 2010
1:20 pm
I’m not transportation analyst, but taking away the two middle lanes of 75 has always seemed like the easiest solution…… we need inner city rails on all major surface roads…. I know our roads seem really long, and rail seems like too much…. but if we don’t do it now, we will regret it a lot more when we finally figure out we need rail in georgia and theres absolutly no more room….. That’s when rail will cost 1 trillion in georgia
RP
February 4th, 2010
3:08 pm
Who the heck edited this post? Ms. Tucker needs to go back to school for an elementary spelling/grammar refresher on the proper use of ‘it’s’ versus ‘its.’ Unbelievable.
ctucker
February 4th, 2010
3:13 pm
RP, I’m so sorry my blog grammar isn’t up to your standards. I assure you I know the difference between the possessive ‘its” and the contraction “it’s.” But I write the posts quickly and don’t edit as carefully as I should. Should I hold your reponses to the same standard?
sean
February 5th, 2010
10:16 am
A high speed rail between major towns is a great idea. Do you all remember $4.50 gallon of gas?
Have you all not traveled up to Charlotte / DC on any given evening? The traffic is packed with trucks ( LOTS OF TRUCKS ) and cars all the way there.
Rail will not be like the subways in NYC. It needs to be from airport to airport so it can tag up with the infrastructure already around the airport ( hotels, rental cars, etc ). It has to have limited stops in between. No stops at every corner. When a major storm hits the east coast, people stranded at the airports could still travel to the northeast by train. If rail service stays to this idea it will do well.
Cars will always be here, rail is just another option to help move us along.
Catching up with High-Speed Rail Coverage « On Board Midwest
February 5th, 2010
10:38 am
[...] including Georgia, are reeling over the lack of funding they received. When a reporter from the Atlanta Journal Constitution asked LaHood why Georgia only received $750,000, he commented, “Unless a state has its act [...]
Joe Schmoe
February 7th, 2010
7:59 am
A well running highspeed rail system is a joy for travel compared to modern commercial airlines and the TSA. I don’t have insight into the economics of the Japanese or European systems, but as a traveler I think they are awesome and I wish I could travel that way in my own country.
Don
February 9th, 2010
2:42 pm
The Japanese and European HSR systems cover their operating costs and then some. Their “conventional” passenger trains generally do not. It’s no different here. Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor and Acela trains cover their operating costs. The rest of the Amtrak network does not.
Trent Hastings
February 10th, 2010
11:24 am
In order for GDOT to get it’s act together for HSR and transit they need to fire Erik Steavens. He is dishonest, incompetent and common joke amongst transportation professionals.
Streetsblog Capitol Hill » Who Lost Out in the Bid for a Piece of TIGER Transportation Stimulus?
February 17th, 2010
2:49 pm
[...] (Photo: GA Transit Connector)Georgia found itself on the sidelines again, less than a month after it failed to secure a significant share of the stimulus pot for high-speed rail. After spending an estimated [...]
Streetsblog New York City » Who Lost Out in the Bid for a Piece of TIGER Transportation Stimulus?
February 17th, 2010
4:09 pm
[...] (Photo: GA Transit Connector)Georgia found itself on the sidelines again, less than a month after it failed to secure a significant share of the stimulus pot for high-speed rail. After spending an estimated [...]
Streetsblog San Francisco » Who Lost Out in the Bid for a Piece of TIGER Transportation Stimulus?
February 17th, 2010
6:50 pm
[...] (Photo: GA Transit Connector)Georgia found itself on the sidelines again, less than a month after it failed to secure a significant share of the stimulus pot for high-speed rail. After spending an estimated [...]
CliffATL
February 21st, 2010
12:32 pm
WOW…. I’m getting in late on the comments. Here goes: Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood should have been more specific. Instead of saying” Georgia needs to get its act together”; he should have said, “GEORGIA NEEDS DEDICATED FUNDING TO OPERATING ANY RAIL SERVICES (including HSR) THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PAYS TO BUILD IN GEORGIA.
Dedicated funding just like Ga’s gasoline tax which funds the local match for state roads/bridges — dedicated funding (possibly state sales tax) could fund a repurposed GRTA (Georgia Rail Transportation Authority) to build, manage, and operate intercity rail, commuter rail, interstate HSR and freigh rail improvements.
See the entire plan: http://www.examiner.com/x-25727-Atlanta-Metro-Transportation-Examiner~y2010m1d4-Legislators-2010-Transportation-Needs-in-Georgia
C
April 2nd, 2010
1:54 am
We need rail travel from atlanta to gainesville and intercity commuter express lines from atlanta to all of the bigger otp communities. Time to quit listening to your preacher folks – and start thinking for yourselves. No doubt atlanta gets millions from all of the cars on the roads, but it makes commuting/going anywhere suck. We have a really great road system here to, long exit ramps few potholes etc what a shame that it is inundated with way to many cars!