They were wrong about Medicare, too

Medicare’s also has an unprecedented amount of wasteful spending and lack of government oversight, making it a boondogle, to say the least. If you think Medicare is fantastic, I will expect you, Cynthia, to be the first to sign up for the goverment-run public plan that is being touted by the libs. It’s easy to talk to the talk, but I’m anxious to see if you can step up and walk the walk, which I doubt.

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Wait, read that excerpt again… Reagan was wrong???

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“Under my plan of a cap-and-trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket.” – President Obama.

To achieve health care reform, “I’m going to have all the negotiations around a big table. We’ll have doctors and nurses and hospital administrators. Insurance companies, drug companies — they’ll get a seat at the table, they just won’t be able to buy every chair. But what we will do is, we’ll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies. And so, that approach, I think is what is going to allow people to stay involved in this process.” – President Obama.

What a guy. What a guy.

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Too bad Kristof chose to ignore the real criticism made of this bill: it will bankrupt us. Tucker also missed this crucial point when she was mindlessly regurgitating someone else’s work.

Oh and by the way, Medicare is already bankrupting us and if anyone was on record as having said so in 1960, they would have been dead right.

I think it is great that the left completely refuses to acknowledge the fiscal concerns that are really driving opposition to this bill.

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Road Scholar –

“Could it be the doctors that request unneeded tests, or who overcharge for their services, or……”

The unneeded tests are a direct result of the lawsuits that the Democrats refuse to curtail with tort reform. If you really cared about unneeded tests you would be demanding that Democrats stop working for the interests of trial lawyers and start implementing common sense tort reform. If you want to talk about greedy, you should be pointing your finger at ambulance chasing dirtbags like John Edwards instead of baselessly attacking the people who actually deliver health care.

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hmm…medicare cannot pay for itself?? did see some good news today on the ajc.com fulton county is slashing spending!!! AMEN!! time to run on a leaner staff, next up, lets get rid of the pension plans and maybe just maybe will not have to raise taxes….good day for the tax payers in fulton county

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Cynthia;
Have you and I lived in the same US since 1961? It seems obvious that Reagan was correct.

Democrats have been trying to legislate National Health Care continuously since Medicare was implimented. Their plan was to take an incremental approach. Fortunately Democrats have not had full control of the Legislative and Executive Branches for sufficient time to succeed.

Reagan served 2 terms as President. But what was one of the first efforts of Democrats under Clinton? National Health Care. The effort cost the Democrats control of Congress. Clinton held on, but did not make another effort at National Health Care.

Then we had 2 terms of Bush. But after that what was at the top of the Democrat to do list under Obama? Right. National Health Care. Will it cost Democrats control of Congress again? Almost certainly.

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Poor Reagan. There was a lot he was wrong about. One of my other favorites was his solemn campaign promise to balance the budget by the end of his first term. Whoops!

We didn’t get that one fulfilled until President Clinton got into office, and then we got a surplus. Like I said, poor Reagan. He wasn’t even here when he was here.

But with the health industry’s propensity for booting sick people off the rolls into nothing, today’s elderly would have no health care at all without Medicare. All you folks who love your parents, aunts, and uncles should be deeply grateful for your so-called “socialist” program, for can you imagine your out-of-pocket without it? Whoops again! (I’ll bet even the Reagan family used Medicare once Ronnie got sick.)

But you’d still be whining at the government like always, for that’s just what you do; but this time, it would be for an entirely different reason. This time, you’d be demanding your “socialist” program, not trying to destroy it. Poor Reagan for sure, but poor stupid right-wingers as well. Get a clue, folks!

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Free stuff is usually popular for the people receiving it.

Doesn’t make it good when the free stuff will ultimately bankrupt us.

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Reagan was right!!

Medicare distorted the market, and now government will ride to the rescue of what itself screwed up. Listen to the man himself–

“One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. Most people are a little reluctant to oppose anything that suggests medical care for people who possibly can’t afford it.”

Ronald Reagan speaks out against Socialized Medicine, 1961

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Tom, You are a dope. Enough said

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YES!

No more government entitlement programs!

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Reagan was not only right, but foresaw the creeping socialism that is so persuasive today.

Everyone wants something for nothing – that is why we are in such sad shape. We are saddled with tremendous debt and staggering new taxes just to pay for all the “free” benefits bestowed upon us by the benevolent dictator called Congress.

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It’s now an entitlement (unfortunately) and politicians are too scared to take on AARP and other well paid lobbyists.
But I would say that he was 100% correct that it started a wave of government programs that have screwed the company up royally, so Mr. Reagan was right (and he was even a Democrat in 1961(!)). Explosions in government programs have contributed to the disintegration of the family unit in the country, from which most of society’s problems emanate (crime, poverty, to name a couple small ones)

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If you want to start some crap–How about FDR and his socialistic beginnings for America!

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Cynthia, Keep on paraphrasing articles to make yourself look like a writer, and it just might win you another “token” Pulitzer!

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Lookin in,
I am sorry to hear about your brother’s injury. If you think the doctor that operated on your brother was scary, think about the quality of doctors that our going to be out there when their pay is lower as a result of this scary legislation and they will still have to worry about the possibility of being sued due to a lack of tort reform. You are going to have wait in long lines to see a lesser-qualified doctor, who is going to order more tests than normal, and you will get to pay even more for this great service. Thanks everybody for voting for this change. Really. We all appreciate it.

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Git ur guvmit handz off mi heathcare!

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lets see national health care hasn’t broke britian, germany,japan ,the nederlands, france, italy,sweden,norway,
austria, there’s more

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getalife –

And as you would say, ‘get all meaningful and coherent thought from my comments”

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Had Enough of Cynthia Tucker … Cythia is a “Worthless human being.” What the hell? She has a family who would say otherwise. Have a little respect and dignity and try infusing a little Pragmatism into the debate rather than your emotionalism. We can all hide behind our computers and spew such hate because it’s a lot harder trying to promote change at the grassroots level. UGH.

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Uggh Cynthia you do realize that this new health care reform plan will “change” Medicare. It will basically kill it.

So what exactly is the point of this column?

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The socialist program Medicare’s impending collapse is the genesis of this healthcare non-reform from the Obama Administration. Medicare’s inability to support itself for little more than half a century ought to be caution enough for most Americans before they allow a complete Medicare-ization of healthcare in this country. Unfortunately, ignorance is no impediment for our Democrat Party and it’s bumbler-in-chief, Mr. Obama.

Here’s the problem: According to GAO estimates, Medicare will add 55 TRILLION dollars to the federal deficit over the next seventy years or so. That’s right, TRILLION, if Medicare stays “as is.” If you tack on the inevitable “government boondoggle multiplier effect”, those TRILLIONS will likely double.

Now, you’d think the Obama Administration would see this as a sign that a market based solution was necessary. Uh, no they don’t, there’s vested interests to be considered, redistribution to account for and just taking care of the Dem voting base. Instead of running away from a failing socialist solution like Medicare, the Obama Administration reasons that if a little government is bad then a lot more will even more terrible – but later on – after someone else is elected – and it’s someone else’s problem.

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Scott

November 19th, 2009
3:48 pm

it is you and folks like you that make honest debate not possible in this country at this time. I never said anything in defense of any trail lawyer. My point was and ramins that tort reform is a red hearing thrown into the mix to distract from the real issues. And for the record, We or should I say I don’t expect Doctors to be perfect, But I do expect them to be responsible and mindful of the fact that these patients are real people not just a means to their next country club membership.

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Scott

November 19th, 2009
4:40 pm

Nice try, but the USPS have not recieved a single dollar of taxpayer money since the early 80’s. What are the insurance companies afraid of? If They can provide a service be it health care, Mail delivery, natural gas service or whatever, in a way that is better than the Gov. then They would and and do get my money. I run a business that ships roughtly 15,000 small packages a month and I get hit up for business by the USPS almaost daily. But UPS delivers it more timely and at a better price so they get the business. Now FEDEX is becoming a player in some of our markets so they are getting some to. See all you have to do is build the best mouse trap, and you will always have your share of the market. Now I ask again, what are the insurance companies afraid of?
BTW, try making Dr.’s be bad Dr.’s be accountable without them. If there was not so much malpractice, there would not be so many trail lawyers…

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Conservatives on this blog seem to forget that, if they live long enough, they will be Social Security and Medicare beneficiaries too. These two programs have saved tens if not hundreds of millions of elderly and disabled Americans from a life of destitution. For people who receive pension and health care benefits after they retire, you folks are lucky. But most retired workers receive neither, so most will need both programs once they’re old enough. For the sink-or-swim crowd out there, it’s just a matter of simple human decency.

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“Reagan was wrong, too.”

No he wasn’t. The Fed Gov IS invading almost every aspect of our private lives and business. Since 1961 we have seen the onset of the US Department of Education, the EPA, OSHA, and the US Department of Energy. The IRS has become more aggressive in its violations of the 1st, 4th, 5th and 10th Amendments. There are laws on the books to tell us what kind of toilets and light bulbs we can buy. Congress has “made a law abridging the freedom of speech”. And now the government has stolen money from its citizens and given it to cover the risks taken by wealthy bankers. Hate speech laws tell us what we must think while committing a crime.

Reagan was right.

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Is it just me or don’t they always point out how Medicare and Social Security are both almost bankrupt? Why on earth would you point to that as an example of a successful program when it is clearly not a successful program and has a ton of waste that for the last 30 years, no Republican OR Democrat has bothered to try to correct it.

In 1965, Medicare Part A was passed with a cost estimate of $9 Billion in 1990. The actual cost in 1990 was $67 billion! In just 1987, Medicare added a hospital subsidy that was expected to cost $100 million and ended up costing $11 BILLION in 1992, just five years later.

What I can tell all the Government Health Care supporters out there that there is absolutely not one large Government project that has ever even come close to the costs estimates or under the costs estimates. What does it really matter anyways? With debt like this of $30,000 for every man, woman and child owed in this country today because of Government spending, why not go ahead and double that or more by adding Government Health Care. What’s the worst that can happen?

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Yeah, medicare works so great, you have to supplement it or you can’t afford your medications. To top it off, it’s bankrupt.

So you take an example of a failed system we’re stuck with as a reason to have another failed system to stick us with?

Sorry, “Let’s take something bad and make it worse.” is not a convincing argument.

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There’s about 70 milion baby boomers beginning to go on SS and Medicare with only the Gen y’s and 20 million illegal aliens to pay the bills. So the solution is to entitle another 20 million poor people with health insurance?

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Thank you Cynthia for bringing Kristof’s column and Reagan’s mistakes/myths to the discussion. History will show that Medicare and now Health Reform will be both popular and life saving for millions of deserving Americans. We are best when we come together and solve problems rather than “go it alone” like some sad ol’ cowboy looking for a Marlboro or selling soap.
We deserve the change we voted for, so says the Constitution, and all these chicken hawks and bitter Cheney wannabes need to go back to hiding in some undisclosed location with a copy of Sarah’s book and Newsweek cover.

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What really amazes me Ms. Tucker is you write two paragraphs (one of which is quoting someone else) and you’re done. So how many of these do you now do a week? 3 They must not be paying you by the word and surely they’re not paying you based on the logic of the content. I guess the only reason I come here anymore, is to see your followers comments that are even less logical then yours.

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Trust the government to run something right? Ask the American Indians, look at Fanny Mae & Freddie Mac – need $30 BILLION more taxpayer dollars.

Government Spending—BANKRUPT
“U.S. Posts $176.36 Billion Deficit for October”

Cash for Clunkers— “Cash for Clunkers’ Ran Out of Gas”

US Department of Agriculture— “USDA Paid Dead Farmers $1.1B”

The post office is a wreck, no competition and they can’t make money – tired of standing in their lines, just wait until tax payer funded heath care kicks in.

And, on and on and on…….

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Jake

November 19th, 2009
5:43 pm

I respect you choice, And if it were simply a matter of choice, I would understand, but in this case as in so many others, It was not his choice. His loss was due to the negligence of the Dr. and that is the key. Incompetence has a price. it cost my brother usage of his hand, it cost some thier lives… it “only” cost the insurance company less than 2 million

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Samuel, why did’t the unfortunate people PLAN ahead for their retirement, they only had about 30-40 years to do it?

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mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the LIAR Obama :

“why did’t the unfortunate people PLAN ahead for their retirement,”

Kind of hard to do when the Federal gov’t is stealing 50% of your income and calling it “investment”.

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The opinion of some of the responses on this board is morally and ethically repugnant, especially the idea that it is OK to spend trillions on corporate welfare and imperialist warfare, but can not spend anything to ensure the health of its citizens or that it’s senior citizens are not homeless and destitute. Some respondents need to check out the statistics on elderly poverty in the U.S.

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Scott: You must have me confused for somebody else.

Nope, Scott, you’re the same old Scott spouting that same right-wing gibberish. I answer you over and over again, but it’s you who finally run away because you have no logic to answer me back.

It took us eight years of political and economic insanity to get us into this mess, and you want us out in ten months? Have you noticed we’re already seeing the clear beginnings of economic turnaround? I think it’s obvious you haven’t.

It took President Bush years, not months, to begin seeing any kind of results from his massive tax cuts for the rich, and you right-wingers supported him like he was Jesus come again. Now that you, we, and most of the world know he wasn’t quite bright, you appear to be having severe memory lapses about his record, and can’t admit you were wrong. You do know he has a record, don’t you, Scott?

And not only can’t you remember anything, you want to turn around and do us all over again what he did, but not a chance in your right-wing dreams, dude. Spout your krap all you want, it won’t change the fact that the most American voters are not as dumb as you think they are. Maybe you are, but they’re not.

America is changing for the better, Scott We’re moving away from your politics of race in favor of freedom-for-all ones for everyone, not necessarily through government, but through the constitutional concern for all of us together. That means, Scott, that your politics of selfishism are going buh-bye, whether you like it or not.

And of course I like Cynthia, even though I disagree with her on occasion. She’s very, very intelligent and good at what she does, and has been for years. Not only that, but she’s a virtual saint for putting up with all you goofs who have nothing better to do everyday than come in here and call her inappropriate names.

It’s pathetic, Scott, and you’re one of them. Where’s the logic, pal? You got any of this you can throw in every once in awhile to try and keep it interesting for those of us taking this blog seriously?

So who are you pulling for, for our next president, Sarah Palin? Got your autographed copy of her book of self-serving lies yet? Better hurry because there are a whole lot of folks in the media and McCain campaign pointing out all the many places where she’s clearly not telling the truth. Is this the best you can do in your conservative “independent” party? New York 23RD, dude!

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To the conservatives on this blog who rant about the government “stealing” their money in taxes and about projected deficits decades into the future for both Social Security and Medicare, as well as critizing people for not planning their retirement, I ask: How old are you folks? Do you have kids? Are you wealthy enough to complain about the government “stealing” your money? Do any of plan on working for the same company for 30 or 40 years? Most current retirees didn’t make enough money to retire comfortably, and most have no pensions or health care benefits to speak of, all the while struggling to raise families and making the best life that they could. Perhaps if any of you become disabled or you live long enough to retire, you will understand the reason behind these programs. As others have pointed out, every other advanced country has universal health care for its citizens and has lower health care costs and higher life expectancy at the same time. Instead of being obsessed with money that you can’t take with you when you die, think about the good of your fellow man. It’s a matter of simple human decency.

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Mr. Middleton, It appears that you do not merely disagree with conservatives. You hate them. You use many vile words in you comments toward those of us who differ with you. We’re here to communicate, to share our opinions, learn from each other & try to come up with solutions, together.
Politics is not a football game where one side wins. If our country is not successful, we all loose.
Politicians are politicians, regardless of party affiliation. No one is right or wrong all of the time.
You are entitled to you opinions, but they are trite, nasty & unproven by facts & statistics (rhetoric).

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Samuel, There is NO social security.
There is NO Medicare.
The money is gone spent, zip. They are merely programs without any money.
The hc bill will INCREASE hc costs.
2 million people die each yr who have health care.
Health care insurance has not prevented people from dying.
Up to 85% of people die from their lifestyle, not because they didn’t have insurance.

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Linda, no matter how diligent you are in maintaining your health, you will get sick and die at some point. You could die at 42 (my age) or at 108 (my great-grandmother’s age). It’s natural to die, no matter how long you live. No one deserves to be blamed for becoming sick and dying, no matter what their lifestyle. Conservative talk about “personal responsibility” when it comes to health is silly, because no one knows when they’re going to die. This is the point i’m making about Socaial Security, Medicare and the health care reform bill. People get old, they become disabled and they die. You can’t take whatever money you have into the afterlife. Are you religious? God doesn’t care how much money you have. He cares about how you treat your fellow human being. it’s the very defintion of morality.

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Tom, my response to your rambling is above.

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Scott, You are wasting your time. I’ve debated him before. I’ve stated facts & statistics & he ignores them. I don’t think he reads any posts that disagree with him. His mind is closed. He uses the same rhetoric day after day. He’s irrelevant. He’s already drunk the drink. Just ignore his rants & raves. Don’t fall victim to him.
May God bless you & yours for being a great American.

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Not knowing the specifics, but understanding that the doctor who botched the operation is still practicing at the same hospital, leads me to believe that the issue was the hospital’s greed, not the doctor’s. You see, the hospitals are run by business men who are focused like lasers on profit. Not that focusing on profit is bad, but when it comes to things like healthcare and surgery, it’s better to leave the productivity models for the cafeteria and back office staff. The hospitals dictate how long operating rooms are available and to whom they are available. The staff is comprised of their employees (usually minus the surgeon and a nurse or two). If the doctor was rushing through surgery, it was his fault for playing to the bureaucracy, but I am willing to bet he did not create the policy that resulted in your brother’s injury.

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Scott@9:19pm: You can leave now. I am through with you.

Well, thanks for the permission, dude, but nobody’s going anywhere, at least, I know I’m not. But if you don’t like it, then maybe YOU should think about going somewhere else.

Let’s see, now where is there somewhere you might find much more appealing than living in a truly free United States of America? Russia is still available and isn’t communist anymore. (You know how you like to call Cynthia “comrade” daily?) It’s awfully authoritarian though under “Puty Poo,” but I think you’ll fit right in.

Or maybe you could go to northwestern Guyana and start your own weird settlement like Jim Jones did. But wait, that little experiment didn’t work any better than any of the attempts your radical right has made to take over our America. Remember Bush, Rove, and Cheney and their eight-year-long effort to create an imperial presidency with its “permanent conservative majority”? And let me ask you again, Scott: You do remember President Bush has a record, don’t you?

The devastation was so complete under his “leadership” that we just haven’t had the time to get back yet, but we will. And I think you and others like you know we will – why you’re doing all you can in this beginning of President Obama’s first term to bring him down.

I don’t think you’re evil, Scott. I just don’t think you know any better than what you’re saying. You’ve probably been thinking like you do ever since the struggle for civil rights began in the 60s when you first became a reactionary, and it’s highly unlikely you’ll be giving up your old battered habit until you can learn to see better for yourself. Miracles do happen.

But why are you so afraid of change, sir? Why don’t you want to see an America where all are equal and free? Don’t you like who we’re supposed to be and who our Founding Fathers intended us to become? And don’t you want us to help the rest of the world become free as well? It definitely doesn’t look like it to me.

You’re a part of America, sir, but so is everyone else – red, yellow, black, and white – and we’re not going to stand by and allow the likes of you and yours to take us back to what we absolutely know does NOT work. And to play on George Wallace: We won’t do it today; we won’t do it tomorrow; and we won’t do it forever and ever. Got it?

You can call us names, make up lies about us, kill us (or try to), or try to make us believe that up is down, right is left, and all the other goofy things you right-wingers love to say, and it’s not going to even make a dent in what we know is true. People like you have always stood in the way of progress – social and otherwise – but we’re onto you now, and it’s simply not going to work anymore.

You can continue lying about President Obama all you want, but most Americans by far recognize him as a very good man who needs longer than the 10 months you’re given him to succeed. Like I said, it took eight years of President Bush to get us into this mess (with people like you supporting him all the way), and it’ll probably take longer than one term for us to fix all the problems he caused.

You cannot win, sir. And as long as you’re on this blog and elsewhere spouting your radical-right politics, you’ll be hearing from the likes of me, consistently and often. Like I said, I’m not going anywhere, sir – I like it here – but feel free to run, run away anytime you get the urge! (And take Linda with you. The silly girl tried to tell me once that she was from Kenya and on welfare.)

P.S. Oh, and President Franklin Delano Roosevelt saved our economic and political systems from certain collapse with his “big government” approach to the Depression. You do know President Roosevelt has a record as well, don’t you, Scott? It’s one of outstanding achievement and success, and we’re still here as a democratic United States of America to prove it. So is there anything else you want to talk about, sir? Shoot!

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Mr. Middleton, I have never been disrespectful of people who post comments on this blog & you are entitled to your opinions, but you have crossed the line. You are hateful. Your comments are vile. You cannot tolerate others who disagree with you. You rant & rave & are illogical. You lied about me & I take that personally. You need to get a grip or find something better to do.
I was raised as a Dem. Both of my parents were Dem. I’m a registered Dem. It’s people like you that turn me off from voting for Dems. You are NOT helping the Dem agenda. You are the problem.

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Mr, Middleton, I’ve had enough psychiatry courses to understand you. I have your profile. You are bitter. You can’t acknowledge facts.You’re in denial. You probably have relationship issues. Your tactics are deplorable.
I don’t ever want to discuss anything with you ever again. You are hopeless & irrevlant. You are a disgrace to the Dem party.

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Here’s a list of some of the new taxes that are in the 2074 page senate health care bill. wonder how many more there are in this bill and the house 1900+ pages. these taxes will take effect on passage but the health care will not begin until 2014. does anyone actually believe that this can work for the benefit of the American people? the egos of the people who came up with this piece of garbage is amazing. they should be booted out in the street asap.
Individual Mandate Tax = Income Surtax
Employer Mandate Tax
40% tax on “Cadillac” Health Insurance plans
Medicine Cabinet Tax (has to do with HSA/FSA accts)
HSA withdrawal tax hike
Excise tax on charitable hospitals
Tax on Innovator Drug companies
Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers
Tax on Cosmetic Surgery
Higher Payroll Tax on Upper Income
Tax on Health Insurers
Elimination of tax deductions for employer provided retirement drug coverage
Hike in Medicare Payroll Taxes
Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax hike

And this is just a partial list. Under this plan, we won’t need healthcare because we will be taxed to death.

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Medicare works just fine and has delivered good care for as long as I can remember. The drug program needs to be replaced by one like the Veterans Administration uses so as to bring costs down.

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