Health care foes fear up-or-down vote?

It’s time for the Senate to hold a straight-up vote on its health care bill. The Congressional Budget Office has come back with its estimate, which puts the total cost at $849 billion, meeting President Obama’s requirement that the legislation not “add one dime” to the deficit.

It would ensure up to 94 percent of Americans. It would prevent insurance companies  from barring people because of pre-existing conditions. It’s not a perfect bill but it’s a step in the right direction.

The Senate measure is similar in scope to legislation the House approved earlier this month. It would require most people to buy insurance, and if their employers did not offer affordable coverage, they would be able to shop for policies on new state-based “exchanges” that would function as marketplaces for individual coverage. Insurance companies would have to abide by broad new rules that would ban practices such as denying coverage based on preexisting conditions.

But the bills diverge on other key provisions. The House version would require all but the smallest businesses to offer insurance, while the Senate measure would merely fine companies for not offering affordable coverage. The Senate bill would bar illegal immigrants from buying insurance through the exchanges, while the House would restrict access only to subsidies and federal programs such as Medicaid, which would be vastly expanded under both bills.

Still, there are many senators who don’t like it. If they don’t like it because it’s too expensive or too coercive or “socialism,” they should vote against it, right?

But it’s not that simple. The Republicans and a few of their allies, like Joe Lieberman, are proposing to prevent the bill from coming to a vote. It takes a super-majority to “invoke cloture,” a procedure which allows an actual vote on the bill. Many senators seem to fear the democratic action of allowing a vote.

If Republicans really believe that Americans will hate the results of the health care legislation and vote them out because of its consequences, they should allow the vote to take place, right?

58 comments Add your comment

Peadawg

November 19th, 2009
7:48 am

Nice headline this morning on the ajc: “State jobless rate up to 10.2% ”

How about we worry about jobs first, huh Obama?

oldtimer

November 19th, 2009
7:55 am

NO, They should not.

Donovan

November 19th, 2009
8:04 am

This opposition to the health care scam is a shot across the bow by us Republicans and 85% of the Amereican people. We will pick our fights along the way. Once you liberals get your way it is harder to pull back the entitlements that you poisoned the well with. Read our lips. “We don’t want the government running health care”. Anything the government has run has failed. We don’t like being forced to pay for uninsured people. Take your socialized medicine to another country. Stop the damn madness and stop the spending. Your recklessness will be answered at the polls in 2010.

EVIL REPUBLICANS TIME IS UP

November 19th, 2009
8:22 am

LET’EM ALL DIE SAYS THE REPUBLICAN!
DEMOCRAPS SAYS LET ALL AMERICANS HAVE HEALTHCARE!

Common Sense

November 19th, 2009
8:24 am

Ms. Tucker:

Two points ………….

This is so hypocritical ………. even for you. The Dems. used this tactic all of the time and will in the future. It’s part of the game to allow those not “in power” to still wield a little power.

Kind of like California has two Senators but so does Rhode Island ! Now tell me ………. is that fair to all the residents of California ???

Peadawg

November 19th, 2009
8:25 am

And I love the argument, “Everyone’s forced to have car insurance, what’s the difference?” I don’t recall having to pay for someone else’s car insurance like I would for healthcare.

Common Sense

November 19th, 2009
8:29 am

P.S.

It sure is hard to find an Obama logo car sticker nowadays. That’s kind of a “vote” isn’t it ?

Road Scholar

November 19th, 2009
8:35 am

Common Sense: That is why we have the House of Representatives whose membership umbers are based on population. remeber Georgia picked up 2 congressional districts in 2000 based on population growth. NY lost 2. Stop your whining.

If the Repubs are interested in running this country, they would let the vote happen, up or down, and move on to other legislative needs. Someone dangle a tax break; this will peak their interest since that is the only thing they want. But what special interest group this time…they have to be rich though!

Peadawg

November 19th, 2009
8:37 am

Common Sense, you still see a couple of Obama stickers…mainly on run-down cars(people who wants the handouts).

Peadawg

November 19th, 2009
8:38 am

Common Sense, you still see a couple of Obama stickers on run-down cars where the wheels cost more than the car itself. Mainly the people who wants their handouts.

tbee

November 19th, 2009
8:39 am

The Repulicans do have a plan and that is to put your butt to work so you can buy your own healthcars and not have someone else pay for it. What a novel idea!

Chris Broe

November 19th, 2009
8:48 am

“Invoke Cloture”

Disclaimer: This new wrinkle has been written off the cuff.

I’m naming the sew-sew healthcare bill: Our Emperor’s New Clothes

I demand that the senate expose Obama for the streaking emperor he truly is. That’s right, they should “revoke clothing”.

Obama’s Rx yarn will leave the American People in stitches. I dont think this bill will pass because the senate will never iron out it’s differences.

Follow this invisible thread on Twitter.

Common Sense

November 19th, 2009
8:56 am

Road Scholar:

No kidding professor! And that’s why we have a “disporportionate “body called the Senate ……… to offset the “proportionate” House of Representatives (or the smaller states would never have signed on to the Constitution) !

Thanks for helping to make my point.

Common Sense

November 19th, 2009
8:56 am

Peadawg:

LOL !!

Turd Feguson

November 19th, 2009
9:04 am

$849 million…LOL. Its gonna cost far more and Ms Tucker you know this to be true.

shawny

November 19th, 2009
9:05 am

“It’s time for the Senate to hold a straight-up vote on its health care bill. ” No, it isn’t. You know the process. You know that it takes 60 votes for cloture and 50% +1 to pass it. Opponents know that they might get 50% but not 60%, so they hold on, same as any other bill that gets filibustered.
That is how the process works. Want it to get past cloture, then strip out the public option and it will pass as it should. Otherwise, moderates hold on!

NoSurprise

November 19th, 2009
9:14 am

The Rev. Jesse Jackson on Wednesday night criticized Rep. Artur Davis (D-Ala.) for voting against the Democrats’ signature healthcare bill.

“We even have blacks voting against the healthcare bill,” Jackson said at a reception Wednesday night. “You can’t vote against healthcare and call yourself a black man.”

oldtimer

November 19th, 2009
9:48 am

If you have a car…You do not have to buy insurance. You only need insurance if you drive on a public road!!

Scott

November 19th, 2009
9:51 am

No. We should not let this vote go…Not when politicians have come out and said that they don’t care what the majority of their constituents want and are going to vote for the bill. Cynthia, it is funny that you finally acknowledge the CBO numbers now that they fall in your favor. It’s funny though that you fail to acknowledge how exactly they were able to drag the cost down. They pared out a bunch of costs and put them into a separate budget proposal. They are also banking on removing billions of dollars by removing inefficiencies. We all know that the government will not find those inefficiencies and that this program is going to cost much much more than its expected amount. Why should we even trust these numbers. We have already seen how badly they are fudging the numbers for the jobs saved/created data. Why should we believe that the same rules will apply to this budget?
The Reps are doing the right thing to not let this move forward. They are following parliamentary procedures the same way that the Dems followed parliamentary procedures when they held up alot of Bush’s proposals by filibustering everything that came through.

Turd Feguson

November 19th, 2009
9:51 am

NoSurprise

November 19th, 2009
9:14 am

Well finally there it is. The illustrious double talking Reverend (ha ha) is showing his true biggoted colors.

Mark

November 19th, 2009
10:04 am

About cloture: I think it is high time the Senate Majority Leader used his right to avoid the Procedural filibuster on the Health Care Reform Bill and let those senators, who want to flilibuster, actually do it. Let them talk for days and days.

It is plain stupid to say that “Anything the government has run has failed.” As for ” Read our lips. “We don’t want the government running health care”, when will people parrotting this figure out that nobody proposes that government should run health care. All that the reform is about is insurance, not running health care. And if you “don’t like being forced to pay for uninsured people,” that is what you are doing now, when uninsured people are treated in ERs and the insured people pay the many times higher cost in their hospital bills and premiums..

Mark

November 19th, 2009
10:07 am

Strip the public option? The public option is the one thing in the health care reform that the majority of people support!

ctucker

November 19th, 2009
10:10 am

Peadawg and Common Sense,
In my neighborhood, half the cars — old cars, new cars, Pontiacs, Volvos — have Obama stickers. The rest don’t have anything. I haven’t seen a single McCain-Palin sticker.

[...] Lieberman and others should allow vote on health care [Atlanta Journal-Constitution] [...]

El Jefe

November 19th, 2009
10:26 am

Just one item to think about – The Federal Government could provide health insurance coverage to all the citizens who need it, even those with per-existing conditions, and it would cost a lot less than 800+ Billion dollars – and it would cover more than the current bill under consideration. The current Senate bill only covers about 1/2 the truly needy.

Bobby

November 19th, 2009
10:26 am

Social Security is a single payer system that cover the most costly of all Americans, the elderly. The VA is pure socialized medicine that takes care of the wounded soldiers and their lifetime medical problems. Again, the most expensive to treat. Both of these programs are rated higher than private health care with the VA being ranked the highest. For those of you out there that say government cannot do anything right just look at these two examples. I would like for you to stop saying that the service personnel that take care of our veterans are incompetent and cannot do anything right. The only time government is run ineffectively is when republicans are in power.

For all you right wingers out there, answer two questions for me.

“What value does the health insurance companies add to the health care equation?’

“What has the GOP or the conservatives done to help the working men and women in this country since FDR?’

I will wait patiently for you answers.

Common Sense

November 19th, 2009
10:35 am

To ctucker:

It figures. Now what about addressing my 8:24 am ?

P.S.

I would like to have every staffer, attorney and advisor who actually ”drafted” the House and Senate Health Bills identified, stripped of their citizenship and banished to a foreign island somewhere never to return to this Republic they are trying to destory.

The Congressmen, Congresswomen and Senators who voted for it would do the rowing.

Joan

November 19th, 2009
10:36 am

Tucker lives in DC, so naturally the suck ups still have Obama stickers–plus most of DC is black. So go figure. About the healthcare bill, I don’t see any “reform” in the thing at all. Why can’t the government already have “reformed” healthcare by allowing cross border competition by insurers, by cutting out the fraud, abuses and excesses, by limiting emergency room care to real emergencies, by enacting tort reform so doctors didn’t have to pay a quarter million a year for insurance thereby raising rates, by looking harder at the costs of medical appliances “leased” to Medicare for multiples of the amount the same thing could be bought for? Why…..And now they want more control. NO NO NO NO

Scott

November 19th, 2009
10:41 am

Mark, Yes we do need healthcare reform. Everybody agrees with that. We do nto agree with how this Admin and Congress want to go about doing it. The government has a long, long history of putting forth one program and then when it is put into place, it is never what was proposed and it ends up becoming like every other government program…..a bureaucracy laden in red tape that ends up costing twice as much as proposed. Social security and Medicare were supposed to be programs that would helps us all. We were not going to have to worry about retirement because we would give money to the government and they would stow it away for when we retire. Do you know how much of my hard-earned cash I am going to get form that? Not a single nickel. Nada. Zip. Zilch. How? Because the government decided to make large changes to the entire thing and they stole the money. There is no other way to explain it. They STOLE IT!!! Now, you want to give the government more involvement in our healthcare??? They say they can get rid of $250B in inefficiencies. Rather than totally revamping the entire system, prove those inefficiencies exist(Don’t use the fuzzy math you use to determine jobs saved), find them, and then remove them and prove it by showing the cost reduction. THEN, come back to us and take the next step. THAT would be the smartest idea. THAT would be what a profitable corporation like Walmart or GE would do. I really do not see what would be wrong with this. The last thing I am wondering….If this reform is going to be so great, then why isn’t Congress subjecting themselves to it? Why isn’t Obama going to commit his family to this plan? Are they too good for this plan? You do realize that under this plan, they would have deemed Ted Kennedy too sick to keep alive right? Under his special government plan, he was entitled to things that the reform plan will not entitle everybody else to. I have lived under a universal healthcare plan when I was in the Army….It’s called TRICARE. If you asked servicemen how they view their treatment; most would say it is terrible GUARANTEED!!!

Scott

November 19th, 2009
10:45 am

Bobby, You failed to acknowledge one key thign abotu Soc Sec and Medicare. THEY ARE BANKRUPT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh and Bobby, do some research on your own questions before posting them. Actually do some REAL research and not listen to Olberman, Mathews, Pelosi, Ried, and Obama, and you will find your answers.

Peadawg

November 19th, 2009
10:46 am

Cynthia, just a simple observation/question. What’s the ratio of African Americans to Whites in your neighborhood? And please answer honestly.

Common Sense

November 19th, 2009
10:49 am

Peadawg:

I used to know someone nicknamed “Peajuice”. Everytime we would go to this certain cafeteria in downtown Atlanta back in the early 70’s he would have the lady “ladle” some green pea juice on his cornbread ………….. :o )

NoSurprise

November 19th, 2009
10:52 am

ctucker at 10:10 am — re: “In my neighborhood, half the cars…”.

You just confirmed the “lemmings myth” part of the election, i.e., people who go along unquestioningly with popular opinion, with potentially dangerous or fatal consequences…

ctucker

November 19th, 2009
11:09 am

Peadawg said:Cynthia, just a simple observation/question. What’s the ratio of African Americans to Whites in your neighborhood? And please answer honestly.

Peadawg, one of the fascinating things about readers like you is that you are MUCH more obsessed with race than I am. So many of the responses I receive are full of references to race — even if I never mentioned it!
But, here goes: I’m happy to answer your question, although I certainly don’t expect you to believe me. I’m the only black resident I’ve seen in a ten-block radius. I’ve seen black workers at the neighborhood grocery store, but I’ve not seen a single black person sitting on the porch or walking out of a house early in the morning or walking a dog in the evening.
So I’m assuming those Obama-loving voters are white.

Common Sense

November 19th, 2009
11:11 am

To NoSurprise:

Excellent point. As “Neal” would say, we really need to be working on who can vote in this country.

I am for a sliding scale system ……………. it could be tied to your tax return/taxes PAID ! No taxes paid …….. one vote. The more taxes you pay ………. the more your vote counts (i.e., $10,000 taxes paid equals a vote of 1.5 and on up).

Common Sense

November 19th, 2009
11:12 am

To ctucker:

You haven’t addressed/answered my 8:24 ………………..

Last chance …………..

mike

November 19th, 2009
11:17 am

Cynthia is right! Only Democrats are allowed to use procedural tactics to slow down legislation!

Common Sense

November 19th, 2009
11:19 am

To mike:

Which is why she is dodging my 8:24. It’s fine as long as they are the ones using it.

Peadawg

November 19th, 2009
11:48 am

Let me post go through that I wrote about 5 minutes ago. Thanks.

Peadawg

November 19th, 2009
11:49 am

David Granger

November 19th, 2009
12:04 pm

An up or down vote sounds good to me, Cynthia….bring it on, and let the people know who’s on their side. But let’s not be hypocritical about it, OK? All you giggle-sissy liberals sure didn’t want up or down votes on most of the legislation introduced when the damn Republicans controlled congress. The Democrats pulled every trick known out of their tailpipes, and even threated a few more…a bunch of ‘em even ran away from the Texas legislature to avoid an up and down vote. Talk about childish!
The Democrats and Republicans are just different versions of the same scum. Sure wish we had a legitimate third party in this country, with a realistic chance of winning now and again.

Bud Weiser

November 19th, 2009
12:06 pm

Obama stickers are proudly displayed everywhere in the 30305zip-when GW’s presidency took a nose-dive, repubs in the cover/light of the moon scrubbed every “W” sticker off like a hockey Mom washing her husbands dirty flannel drawls…..

The American People

November 19th, 2009
12:09 pm

How about some rage for the beatdown of Ken Hamidi, who was excercising his American right of free speech. This man walked into a union hall in Sacremento, California at an SEIU 1000 meeting to protest the fact that the SEIU is spending tens of thousands of dollars on political races which they have no right to do. This man who is a state worker had every right to be there as it was a public meeting but he was jumped by four men and beaten up sending him to the emergency room. Is this the right thing, an organization that President Obama has worked with his entire life as he says to beat up a man for exposing corruption within this organization? No it’s not but still no charges have been filed and the President has nothing to say. I wonder if it was a black man protesting a group and four white people beat him up would there be more outrage, more coverage? Of course there would be, that is the hypocrisy. Obama would be having a beer with this man and making sure something was done.

Robyn

November 19th, 2009
12:14 pm

ctucker – The democrats are the party with 60 votes. They can’t get all their members to go along with Obamacare. They are the ones preventing the up or down vote while they try to lie, cheat, or steal their way to more votes. It is also very typical of you to buy the numbers thrown about by the democrats. They purposely left out about 200 billion for the “doctor fix” just to keep the cost under the trillion dollar mark. That 200 billion will eventually have to be paid. I wonder how many more accounting tricks are being used? The fact that the new taxes will go into effect immediately, but the benefits are several years down the road is enough to show me that their health care plan is the biggest scam since global-warming. The CBO findings are solely based on the information given them by the democrats. The republicans are not against health care. They are against the democrats plan to hijack America’s health care system and thus increase their own power.

Turd Feguson

November 19th, 2009
12:20 pm

Scott

November 19th, 2009
10:41 am

“Mark, Yes we do need healthcare reform. Everybody agrees with that.”

Uh no…everybody doesnt agree.

Shananeeeee Fananeeeeeee

November 19th, 2009
12:22 pm

“Under my plan of a cap-and-trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket.” – President Obama.

Turd Feguson

November 19th, 2009
12:23 pm

Cmon guys/gals…you know Ms Tucker earns a very nice living and is no ghetto dweller.

Personally, as long as she has pool, sunbathes and has no privacy fence I would LOVE to be her neighbor! Well even if not and we agreed to never discuss politics we could probably be very good neighbors.

:-)

Chris Broe

November 19th, 2009
12:29 pm

So Cynthia sees the upcoming vote as a catch-22 for the GOP. If they vote yes, then the democrats are doomed in 2010, because americans will be angry about the consequences of the reform. If they vote no, they’ll stop the bill, but the democrats will have a better chance in 2010, because americans will be angry about the consequences of no reform.

Healthcare makes americans angry no matter what.

N.J.

November 19th, 2009
12:30 pm

Enter your comments hear of “Uninsured Motorist”?

Thats where get a policy from your OWN insurance company and have to SUE YOURSELF to collect when some idiot doesn’t buy his own policy or doesn’t buy enough coverage to pay for the damages they did to you.

Its the same with health insurance. There are many instances of some idiot hurting a person in a car accident, the injured person has a million dollars in hospital bills, but the person who hurt them either has NO insurance or such low coverage that his policy only pays one percent of the injured person’s bills..

Every conservative argument made AGAINST health reform is what in logic is called a “reductio ad absurdum”

Because most people living in this state didnt get a decent enough education to understand that term its latin for “Too dumb to be believed”

There is actually as much sense to mandatory health insurance as their is for mandatory auto insurance. Not having either passes on too much expense to the injured parties and the general public.

The Senate plan is a win/win scenario for everyone but the wealthy and the insurance company executives.

The current system generally has a bunch of high school graduates dictating to doctors what sort of medical treatments that a doctor WILL or WILL NOT be paid for.

The average person adjusting claims in a health insurance company does not usually have a college degree. They are majority high school graduates, going down a laundry list of billing codes, and telling the doctor they will not pay for what that doctor decided was absolutely necessary for their patient’s health.

The Republican B.S. about not wanting anyone to come between a patient and is doctor is enough to give me a case of emesis. Which they would probably allow health insurance companies to use to drop my medical coverage.

The ONLY health insurance in this country that no one gets dropped off of for having “pre existing conditions” or failing to note that they were treated for ACNE as a teen in this country are the only “GOVERNMENT RUN” health care systems in the nation. You can’t be dropped from Medicare or Veterans care. Not for anything. Not for “preexisting conditions”

I guarantee that most of the elderly find that MEDICARE is the best coverage they have ever had in their entire life. Unless the lived before the Reagan presidency. Before that, private, employer based health insurance was not too bad. If your doctor said you needed it, it was paid for, 100 percent of the time. Part of the “Reagan Revolution” was the method to allow health insurance companies, not doctors, to have the LAST WORD on what would be paid for.

Jake

November 19th, 2009
12:47 pm

The Medicare cuts mandated by this legislation are cleverly packaged as ‘reductions in current planned increases’. Whatever you call them, the majority of the funding, about $500B, comes from Medicare reductions. The cost of providing healthcare to the elderly and disabled will continue to go up but the government payments won’t, at least not as fast. Ultimately this bill will result in less healthcare services for the elderly, most of whom have worked all their lives, in return for health insurance for the poor. Just another Dem handout, first you give GM to the UAW then you take healthcare from the elderly who tend to vote conservative and give it to the poor who tend to vote Dem.