Guns don’t kill people?
Any murder-suicide is a sad story, and this one is no different. Meleanie Hain, a Pennsylvania mother who garnered national publicity for wearing her handgun openly at her daughter’s soccer game in Sept. 2008, has been found shot dead at her Pennsylvania home, along with her husband.
This is also a cautionary tale, a reminder of something I’ve always believed to be true: Though people kill people, they are more likely to do it with a gun if the gun is immediately available. That makes it more likely that a bad day or a bad moment — an accident, a moment of poor impulse control fueled by rage or alcohol — will turn a law-abiding citizen into a criminal.
It’s something the gun lobby refuses to acknowledge because it would argue for stricter licensing requirements and stricter laws about where guns might be carried, openly or otherwise. Why in the world would you carry a gun to your child’s soccer game? (Note to Second Amendment absolutists: I am not arguing for banning all guns. I grew up in south Alabama, and my father was a hunter who owned several guns.)
After Hain’s soccer-game stunt, local sheriff Michael DeLeo revoked her gun license, so she sued to get it back. At the time, she protrayed herself as the victim of a group of leftists who would infringe on the rights of law-abiding citizens.
“Just the fact that he was wrong is evidenced by the fact that my license was restored to me. … I am a victim of Sheriff Michael DeLeo’s. I am a victim of those in society as a direct result of his actions as well. The way people look at me sometimes when I am out running errands, I feel as if I am wearing a scarlet letter, and really it’s a Glock 26.”
Now she’s the victim of her own bad acts or her husband’s.
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145 comments Add your comment
Larry Linn
October 8th, 2009
11:07 am
Guns don’t kill people! Mommies and Daddies do!
Jimmy62
October 8th, 2009
11:20 am
The husband shot and killed his wife and himself. He had mental issues. What does that have to do with guns being legal or not? The relevance here is severely lacking. The dude was obviously unbalanced, and just as easily could have killed his wife with a club or a bat or a frying pan.
Far more people die because they don’t have a gun to protect themselves than die because they have a gun to protect themselves. If that weren’t true, then this one story wouldn’t seem so out of the ordinary, it would be normal.
joe matarotz
October 8th, 2009
11:20 am
Sounds like Darwin’s natural selection at work to me.
Ellen
October 8th, 2009
11:41 am
Uh, Jimmy… The police have not yet determined who killed whom. So you are making stuff up at this point. Second, most people are killed by people they know and love. Facts are that most people aren’t thinking when they kill. It’s about an impulse meeting an opportunity. I’ve seen this so often it’s sickening. Having a weapon in your house increases the odds someone is going to die. Having a weapon and properly securing it decreases the odds that someone is going to die.
TnGelding
October 8th, 2009
11:48 am
I agree. Having a gun available in times of passion can result in tragedy. I would have been dead long ago if we kept one in the house, and for good reasons. This is a case of poetic justice.
How about a tax of a dollar a bullet to help fund the military and gun “accidents?”
SouthWest
October 8th, 2009
12:10 pm
TnGelding: if you “would have been dead long ago if we kept one in the house, and for good reasons,” a) do you still live in the house where that circumstance exists, and if so, why haven’t you left? (please don’t say “for the sake of the children”…) and b) have you tried to stop doing whatever it is that you think gives someone those “good reasons”?
Also: “Though people kill people, they are more likely to do it with a gun if the gun is immediately available.” I think there should be more consideration of impulse here. If someone has intent to kill, they will find a way do it no matter what’s available – even if it’s only their own two hands. Guns don’t make people more likely to attempt murder – they just make it easier to succeed.
Horrible Horace
October 8th, 2009
12:14 pm
I must agree with Joe Mat. Plus what about all the unlicensed gun owners in the inner city or the ones in the burbs such as The Gwinnett Country drug cartels…THEY are more a problem that the law abiding citizens.
Lettuce get our priorities in order.
Horrible Horace
October 8th, 2009
12:16 pm
“How about a tax of a dollar a bullet to help fund the military and gun “accidents?”
How about NO!
Canton Dawg
October 8th, 2009
12:16 pm
Couple of things I don’t understand Cynthia:
Would guns kept in the house and used for hunting be just as effective at killing someone?
Why haven’t any of my guns killed people? Must be blind luck.
Captain Underpants
October 8th, 2009
12:17 pm
I bet that poor little ole lady who was being taunted by the Marta train soulja girl wished she had a gun at that specific moment.
Captain Underpants
October 8th, 2009
12:18 pm
Canton Dawg. Let me be the first to congratulate you and your guns on using proper gun etiquitte. You guns have behaved in a most upstanding manner and make a well representation (reprezen-in) for the Canton area.
CONGRATULATIONS.
JunkPot
October 8th, 2009
12:21 pm
What if one were to load up their water gun with hydrocholoric acid. Would that not be considered also a deadly weapon and if so should the licensing of water-guns not be in the offing?
SorryJohnny
October 8th, 2009
12:28 pm
This is very ironic. She was a champion of her right to choose. She chose a gun. She died by that choice. The sad thing is that her kids do not have their parents. I hope they choose not to own guns.
Paul Stanley
October 8th, 2009
12:31 pm
I really love you baby
I love what youve got
Lets get together, we can
Get hot
No more tomorrow, baby
Time is today
Girl, I can make you feel
Okay
No place for hidin baby
No place to run
You pull the trigger of my
Love gun, (love gun), love gun
Love gun, (love gun), love gun
You cant forget me baby
Dont try to lie
Youll never leave me, mama
So dont try
Ill be a gambler, baby
Lay down the bet
We get together, mama
Youll sweat
No place for hidin baby
No place to run
You pull the trigger of my
Love gun, (love gun), love gun
Love gun, (love gun), love gun
Love gun, love gun
Love gun, (love gun), love gun
Love gun, (love gun)
Love gun, (love gun), love gun
Love gun, (love gun), love gun
Love gun, (love gun)
Love gun, (love gun)
Love gun, (love gun)
Love gun, (love)
Jimmy62
October 8th, 2009
12:50 pm
Ellen, the police may not have determined something, that doesn’t mean that something didn’t happen the way I said it did. I have it on pretty good authority what happened, and would be more than happy to put down a wager with you that the police end up saying the husband did it.
Of course if I go by your logic, then why are we discussing this at all at this point? The polie haven’t yet determined if a 3rd party killed them both with the 3rd party’s own gun, which would make this entire discussion completely nonsensical. What would it have to do with guns being available in a home if a criminal came in with their own gun and shot these people?
Mr Mackey
October 8th, 2009
12:52 pm
“Guns er bad, mmm kay”
Neil Young
October 8th, 2009
12:57 pm
Be on my side,
I’ll be on your side,
baby
There is no reason
for you to hide
It’s so hard for me
staying here all alone
When you could be
taking me for a ride.
Yeah, she could drag me
over the rainbow,
send me away
Down by the river
I shot my baby
Down by the river,
Dead, oh, shot her dead.
You take my hand,
I’ll take your hand
Together we may get away
This much madness
is too much sorrow
It’s impossible
to make it today.
Yeah, she could drag me
over the rainbow,
send me away
Down by the river
I shot my baby
Down by the river,
Dead, oh, shot her dead.
Be on my side,
I’ll be on your side,
baby
There is no reason
for you to hide
It’s so hard for me
staying here all alone
When you could be
taking me for a ride.
Yeah, she could drag me
over the rainbow,
send me away
Down by the river
I shot my baby
Down by the river,
Dead, oh, shot her dead.
i am i am
October 8th, 2009
12:58 pm
a gun in the house saved me and my family from a couple of gang members that were breaking into people’s houses in my area for quite sometime. found out later that they raped and killed some people in another house about 5 miles away. keep your sympathies and I will keep my children and my wife safe.
sd
October 8th, 2009
1:03 pm
While I am not in agreement that this tradgedy would have been prevented with gun controls, I also do not agree with this statement:
“Far more people die because they don’t have a gun to protect themselves than die because they have a gun to protect themselves”
First, there is no way to quantify how many people would be alive had they had a gun. If you are assuming that all people who have been murdered would have survived had they had a gun, I think thats an unfair assumption and can’t be justified.
Second, the bottom of the equation is a larger number than maybe you would like to acknowledge.
Jack
October 8th, 2009
1:06 pm
If my child’s soccer game was in downtown Atlanta, I’d carry a gun.
sd
October 8th, 2009
1:11 pm
Honestly, what can be done to prevent the senseless deaths of children who stumble upon their parent’s guns?
You could say, “well if a child finds an unlocked gun and kills himself, then the parents should be punished”, but what punishment could you even give them that would come close to the punishment they would already be living?
It should be law, however, that ALL guns are required to be sold with trigger locks and other safety devices. And all gun owners should go through a course that teaches them proper safety.
If you have children and guns, PLEASE take whatever precautionary steps you can to prevent that child from finding your gun.
TheOne
October 8th, 2009
1:11 pm
While I don’t have a statistic, I would guess that more people are killed in car accidents than killed with a gun by someone they know. Would this mean that we should outlaw driving? I could be wrong but I sure do hear a lot more about car accidents than people being killed by a person they know in their home.
But anyway, while I agree that having a gun might cause some of these shootings to occur due to the availability of the gun lying around, I don’t think that should be a reason to outlaw guns. I do believe in background checks but there’s still no way to predict if one day somebody will go wacko and shoot up their family.
gun owner
October 8th, 2009
1:13 pm
all i ask for is a fighting chance. i would never claim that i will survive if i had my gun and not if i gave it up. all i know is that i have one more tool to fight back a criminal than someone who doesn’t.
Jack
October 8th, 2009
1:15 pm
Liberals want to ban guns and legitimize drugs. Go figure.
Conservative Familyman
October 8th, 2009
1:16 pm
This tragic incident that occurred at the home does not justify severely restricting guns in America. There are many other factors in this tragic occurrence that played a much greater role than a gun. On the surface, there seams to be some kind of mental issue here that appears to be a greater factor. Additional factors will come out later as this is investigated. Just because a gun was there doesn’t mean that had there not been one they would be alive today. Just as easily could anyone kill with any number of other items.
In addition, the fact that she exercised her Second Amendment right and carried a firearm to her child’s soccer practice/game is irrelevant to this tragic event. I for one applaud her for exercising her right. Would I carry a weapon open (or concealed) to my children’s sports functions? You bet I would! Those children of mine on the field are very precious to me. And as a parent, it is my responsibility to defend them from danger at all costs from pathetic and worthless criminals you wish to do harm to them. That includes giving up my life to save theirs. If that means that I have to carry a weapon on me to defend their lives, than that is what I will do…Period!
TnGelding
October 8th, 2009
1:22 pm
SouthWest
October 8th, 2009
12:10 pm
Over a period of 44 years marital spats occur.
Horrible Horace
October 8th, 2009
12:16 pm
Well, we need to increase revenue, and it would be voluntary. Don’t want to pay it, don’t buy bullets. But a lot of people have been killed with guns that weren’t thought to be loaded.
Deborah Fetkovich
October 8th, 2009
1:22 pm
Last week there was a widely publicized video showing the murder of an honor student in Chicago. The weapon was a slab of wood – a railroad tie.
I’m waiting for the movement to license and register all railroad ties, and to secure them via lock and key. Indeed, railroad ties can kill.
TnGelding
October 8th, 2009
1:23 pm
Jack
October 8th, 2009
1:15 pm
It’s called logic and realism.
Marc
October 8th, 2009
1:32 pm
Cynthia why don’t you bring up the opposite side? You know when some one that has a gun either protects themselves, their family or property.
LonelyMachines
October 8th, 2009
1:32 pm
Ms. Tucker, it’s a bit irresponsible to be writing about this before the facts are in. Police have not released the particulars yet, but here you are using the incident as fodder for a political editorial.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Obviously, you have an obligation to put a certain amount of ink to paper, and of course, you have your own political agenda. Neither of those factors justifies capitalizing on a tragedy in such a way.
You are commenting on an event that is still scant on facts, and one that did not even occur in Georgia. Is there no city-level corruption, budget shortfall, crime or woe in Atlanta at the moment, or have you just run out of ideas?
Whatever the case, please spare Ms. Hain’s family the additional grief, and have a little respect for the dead.
Shananeeeeeeee Fananeeeeeee
October 8th, 2009
1:33 pm
“From my cold, dead hands.” – Charlton Heston. “Opponents would have you believe the law would change Missouri into a Wild West shootout.” – Charlton Heston. By the way Obama is as corrupt as they come, period.
TnGelding
October 8th, 2009
1:35 pm
It amazes me how many people that should know better are involved in gun accidents. Keeping one in the home provides your most likely attacker, a family member, an easy opportunity to do something in a fit of anger they would regret.
TheOne
October 8th, 2009
1:38 pm
I will be the first to say that I don’t agree with Cynthia Tucker in 99.99% of the cases, but in all fairness, I don’t think she said anything disrespectful in her post and she didn’t come to any conclusions about the details of the incident. The couple died from gunshot wounds and it was classified as a murder-suicide. Those facts are in; who did what is yet to be known (though the children were heard yelling that daddy shot mommy). And if she didn’t post her opinions on this site, then many of us wouldn’t have the fun that we do responding.
TheOne
October 8th, 2009
1:45 pm
TnGelding:
Another tax doesn’t solve the problem. Taxing bullets? Come on. And this is coming from someone with a gun. Once the taxes start there, then what’s to stop the government from taxing anything they deem “taxable”? How about taxing soft drinks? They cause obesity. Meat? Heart disease. Video games, television, computers? Obesity. Coffee? Sleeplessness. The list could go on and on. You may not be a liberal (though from some of your posts I suspect you might be), but I don’t understand why the left thinks the solution to everything is an additional tax so it can fund yet another government program. Before you know it there will be a flatulence tax. After all, excessive flatulence causes green house gas emissions…
TheOne
October 8th, 2009
1:46 pm
Sorry, I meant to say that this is coming from someone WITHOUT a gun.
Tragedy and a New Low for the AJC » LonelyMachines
October 8th, 2009
1:56 pm
[...] in, before police have released the particulars, Ms. Tucker has used the incident as fuel for an editorial on gun regulation. She should be ashamed of [...]
LonelyMachines
October 8th, 2009
2:02 pm
“And if she didn’t post her opinions on this site, then many of us wouldn’t have the fun that we do responding.
”
Fun? A person is dead.
Kevin
October 8th, 2009
2:03 pm
Cynthia, I see your point with this one.
I’ve lived in Atlanta (Midtown) for four years now. I never once considered owning a gun. I now own one. It has become abundantly clear that I can’t count on the city to protect me.
It has become a simple issue of “us vs. them”, and I’m tired of being the one on the losing side of this equation.
If someone breaks into my house, I’m emptying the cartridge on them and asking questions later.
Richard Roma
October 8th, 2009
2:14 pm
If saving lives is the main point in this argument then why stop at gun control? Why don’t we ban the consumption of alcohol at public establishments such as restaurants and bars? I mean, though people kill people they are more likely to do so behind the wheel after drinking. Don’t get me wrong, I am not arguing for banning all alcohol. I grew up in Georgia and my Dad was a hunter and he used to drink a lot. And let’s face it – it’s easier to get access to alcohol than a gun.
JR
October 8th, 2009
2:15 pm
Cynthia,
Would it be preferable to you it the perpetrator of this crime (be it the wife or the husband) had used a knife? Strangled their spouse and then hung themselves like Chris Benoit? The example you’ve given in this column is an extremely poor argument for more gun control.
Say What??
October 8th, 2009
2:16 pm
“Guns don’t kill people?”
Nope, never have, never will. Unless, of course, someone has evidence of a gun loading itself, hunting down its prey, and then firing itself.
Time to stop making excuses for everyone’s actions. McDonald’s is not responsible for the 400lb person with health problems, GM is not responsible for the person driving 100+mph, crashing their vehicle, and not surviving, even with the use of an airbag, the New York subway system should not be responsible for the drunk/drugged out fool who passes out on the tracks and gets run over. Get a grip. Not everyone is a “victim” as you eluded to at the end of your story.
neo-Carlinist
October 8th, 2009
2:25 pm
I guess this falls under “don’t shoot the messenger”… even if the messenger (gun) was designed to be shot. well wait a minute, guns are desgined to be fired, people, targets and animals are “designed” to be shot. it would appear the open-minded Ms. Tucker is attempting to end the war on drugs by declaring war on guns. I was in Kroger the other day and I saw a (plainclothes) police officer with a gun. male or female, it doesn’t matter; any of the dozens of Kroger shoppers could have disabled the officer, taken the gun and “killed people”. I’m no NRA shill, but guns don’t kill people.
The Other Patrick
October 8th, 2009
2:28 pm
Your argument is illogical
Lynnie Gal
October 8th, 2009
2:33 pm
This reminds me of the passage, “Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.” or in this case, the gun.
Gawingnut
October 8th, 2009
2:35 pm
“Now she’s the victim of her own bad acts…..”
Unless she shot herself, explain this remark, please.
“….the right of the public to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed…”
You've got to be kidding
October 8th, 2009
2:38 pm
TnGelding
October 8th, 2009
1:22 pm
SouthWest
You said “Well, we need to increase revenue, and it would be voluntary. Don’t want to pay it, don’t buy bullets. But a lot of people have been killed with guns that weren’t thought to be loaded.”
So if I’m getting this right, you are saying two things:
1. We can tax our way out of gun deaths (tax per bullet).
2. We can tax/regulate stupidity (getting killed with guns that weren’t thought to be loaded).
Typical lib socialist.
sd
October 8th, 2009
2:44 pm
Say What, I feel that your arguments today have contradicted themselves.
In an earlier post you argued that Marijuana should be kept illegal as it is dangerous. Here you argue that since guns, by themselves, do not do anything dangerous then they should remain unrestricted.
Since both of these are inanimate objects and both require human involvement, you should remain consistent.
You should say, Guns are only dangerous is misused and therefore should be unrestricted and anyone who misuses them should be punished. Likewise, Marijuana is only dangerous if misused and therefore should be unrestricted and anyone who misuses it should be punished.
Or you should be for the full restriction of both.
I want people to be able to use both guns and marijuna in responsible manners. Meaning, no one should fire their weapons blindly in the air, or no one shoudl drive while under the influence.
SorryJohnny
October 8th, 2009
2:44 pm
From whom was she protecting herself?
Having a gun didn’t save this woman, from her husband nor from herself. Obvious she wasn’t sure if the enemy was from inside or outside the home.
I’m sure the autopsy results will be available soon.
I’m okay with either results, because she died by her weapon of choice.
I’m sure someone had a moment of regrett in the last few seconds of life.
jconservative
October 8th, 2009
2:45 pm
From Justice Scalia’s majority opinion in District of Columbia v Heller:
” Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”
Please take this however you wish.
A new case, McDonald v. Chicago, is now before the court. This case will decide whether strict local and state gun control laws violate the Second Amendment. I do not believe oral arguments have been scheduled. You might want to keep your eye open for this case.
TheOne
October 8th, 2009
2:49 pm
LonelyMachines:
“Fun? A person is dead.”
Read my entire message. Nowhere did I say that the fact someone was killed is fun. Take a chill.
sd
October 8th, 2009
2:54 pm
By the way, part of the second amendment is ALWAYS left out of this debate. Clearly the framers of the constitution wanted to limit the power of the government to infringe upon gun ownership for the sole purpose that they felt that the people shoudl have a well regulated Militia. Without this, they felt we could not be secure. It wasn’t for hunters, sportsmen, or just plain protection against burglars. it was to ensure that there would be enough people to fight in case of invasion from outside sources or to defend against an inside tyranny.
I’m not for a gun ban, but lets not pretend that Jefferson wanted to make sure everyone could hunt deer, or shoot thieves. This was a macro security issue, not a micro one.
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
William
October 8th, 2009
2:57 pm
Socialist liberals must take away the guns from the general public before they can have a socialist take over of the government. First comes the private ownership then the militia. Cynthia must be a Captain in the Liberal Socialist Brigade. FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!!!
pat
October 8th, 2009
3:07 pm
Would you prefer people kill each other with, axes, picks, shovels, knives, etc. rather than guns?
People kill each other, the method matters little in the end.
Gawingnut
October 8th, 2009
3:21 pm
sd
October 8th, 2009
2:54 pm
“I’m not for a gun ban, but lets not pretend that Jefferson wanted to make sure everyone could hunt deer, or shoot thieves. This was a macro security issue, not a micro one.”
I thought the “well regulated militia” was for foreign (or domestic) violent threats, and “the right to bear arms’ was to prevent the omnipotent Federal Govt. from intruding on indivudials rights (The Bill of Rights,for example), like those wonderful English of years ago.
Jimbo
October 8th, 2009
3:21 pm
The fact is that most people kill themselves.
There are twice as many suicides as there are murders in the country.
Atlanta Native
October 8th, 2009
3:21 pm
SouthGaDawg,
I agree that Cynthia makes little sense here, but she never really has about gun control. However, a bit harsh there, huh?
And where does the goat come in?
sd
October 8th, 2009
3:23 pm
“I thought the “well regulated militia” was for foreign (or domestic) violent threats, and “the right to bear arms’ was to prevent the omnipotent Federal Govt. from intruding on indivudials rights (The Bill of Rights,for example), like those wonderful English of years ago.”
It was. Its not so you can protect your family from a theif.
C from Marietta
October 8th, 2009
3:25 pm
Difference betweens liberals and conservatives:
1) If a conservative is a non-believer – he simply does not attend church. If a liberal is a non-believer – they want to outlaw any mention of the word god.
2) If a conservative does not like guns – they simply do not buy one.
If a liberal does not like guns – they want to outlaw them.
3) If a convervative is a homo-sexual – they quietly like their life.
If a liberal is a homo-sexual. They want to laws to MAKE poeple respect them.
There’s more, but get the picture.
This coming from an editor whose favorite President is a factious character. Again, liberals living in la la land.
sd
October 8th, 2009
3:25 pm
“There are twice as many suicides as there are murders in the country.”
Thats a relief.
clyde
October 8th, 2009
3:28 pm
I’ve owned guns most of my life and I’ve yet to see one move by itself.These guns have never killed anyone.They must be good guns,Cynthia.
If you all want to read a horror story,check the Union Leader newspaper in Manchester, New Hampshire.You will learn there that it isn’t just guns that kill people.
sd
October 8th, 2009
3:29 pm
“conservatives” and “liberals”.
I am sick of the labels. Not everyone fits your categorizations.
For example, I am for gay marriage and against gun controls.
Price
October 8th, 2009
3:31 pm
Abuse by some is the price of freedom to all…..Name one good thing that can’t be misused?
Jimbo
October 8th, 2009
3:39 pm
Oh good lord and look at the rest of the crap in these comments.
1. Only about 1,600 people die in a year from gun related accidents. Guns kill just under thirty thousand people and most of those deaths are suicides. According to the FBI about 1,000 are justified homicides, between cops and legal carry.
2. This sounds like a lot of people until you do the math. There are over 300 million people in this country and 2.4 million deaths. Gun deaths make up a small slice of overall mortality in this country. Things that kill more people: Flu, cirrhosis of the liver, accidents, heart attacks, and cancer. If you want to focus on the lives saved then give people better healthcare, stop stimitizing mental illness, and get people to eat less fatty food and exercise more. If you just got people to quit smoking you’d save more lives per year than guns take.
3. There are 250,000 to a million people in this state of 10 million who have a concealed carry permit. These people are almost never involved in violent crime, you never hear about it in the news, they don’t shoot up MARTA, they aren’t making this place a wild west. The number of murders in this state are comparatively small, the number of murder-suicides are even smaller. For every incident with a gun used in a crime there are hundreds if not thousands of legal gun owners whose weapons do no harm ever. The sensational and tragic nature of crime makes it pop to the forefront of our collective attention, but that’s because our sense of risk is broken. Your car will more likely kill you than a legal gun owner.
4. In support of point three, guns have been selling better than ever and that’s with thousands being sold ever year, and yet violent crime has been in continuous decline since the mid-90’s. Even the economic downturn has done little to put a spike in violent crime and most offenders are repeat offenders who are released onto the street by the overworked and undersupported court and penal systems. This very paper reported the revolving door nature of our jails and how there was a special police unit dedicated to pursuing recently released criminals as leads in new crimes.
I guess what I’m saying is that despite a bunch of caterwauling by people like Cynthia here, (who had no facts in an earlier article about how gun crime was the real killer over the flu.. Cynthia, the CDC disagrees with you wholeheartedly) guns are numerous and relatively safe. They’re usually handled safely by people who respect them and the trouble makers and yahoos are in the definite minority. The really dangerous folks are the ones who buy a gun and then never learn to use it safely, to them I say, “Find an NRA class and take it, and be sure to practice with you guns”
As for the argument that right to bear arms is some kind of collective right because the amendment happens to mention that militias are good for the security of the free state, I can’t help but leave it in my argument. The people have the right to bear arms, this is the fact of the matter. Militias are traditionally made up of the people and any male between the ages of 17 and 45 are part of the militia according to the militia act of 1903. Even without an “official” militia, one could be raised from the people of an armed society very quickly. In fact, the Army isn’t supposed to have funding for more than two years at a time. But no one ever points to that part of the constitution, just like they don’t bother with the 3/5ths rule anymore. The fact is that regardless of the reason or how the amendment is stated, the right of the people, the individuals of this nation, to keep and bear arms, is guaranteed.
Patrick
October 8th, 2009
3:41 pm
The only people who comment on editorials are people that are incapable of forming their own opinions. This person’s entire job is to be “controversial” so you people will read her column and argue and fight. This so called “journalist” doesn’t care if you agree or disagree. She only cares that you read her column so she can keep her job. You people are really a very sad group.
And to clarify, I am commenting on the pathetic losers that comment on editorials, not the editorial itself. There is a difference.
TheOne
October 8th, 2009
3:42 pm
C from Marietta
October 8th, 2009
3:25 pm
“Difference betweens liberals and conservatives:”
Wow, scary but true assessment.
sd:
Agree that it’s hard to put labels on people but the label of liberal and conservative is a continuum and many people have beliefs from both sides. However, “C from Marietta’s” point is that if a conservative doesn’t believe in something, they don’t do it, don’t attend, etc. If a liberal doesn’t believe in something, then they try to change it or make laws banning it. Examples: gay marriage, gun control, fairness (censorship) doctrine, freedom of choice act, pledge of allegiance, etc. etc. etc.
neo-Carlinist
October 8th, 2009
3:45 pm
Kevin, one does not “empty the cartridge”. One empties a clip or the chamber. The cartidge is the shell (or casing) and the bullet (projectile). That said, if you are a good shot, it only takes one cartridge to protect yourself.
TheOne
October 8th, 2009
3:45 pm
Hey Patrick, you said exactly the same thing the other day for another one of Cynthia’s editorials. Verbatim. So I would rather be a “pathetic loser” who comments on editorials with original content than somebody who obviously posts the same thing again and again by a simple copy/paste. (P.S. I didn’t conclude that you were a “loser”, but this “loser” does come up with original content).
CK Hall
October 8th, 2009
3:47 pm
Kennesaw Ga is my kind of place–Don’t hear of gangs breaking into homes and drive-by shootings there do you?
SouthGaDawg
October 8th, 2009
3:48 pm
Opps it looks like my previous comment is being moderated….
Oh well, it doesn’t change the fact that Cynthia Tucker is a racist.
Del
October 8th, 2009
3:49 pm
Tn Gelding
Gelding, In the home people can go into a fit of rage and kill someone with a kitchen knife. In the neighborhood school age children can kill other children with railroad ties. Fathers in a fit of rage can shake their infant children to death, mothers can drown their small children in a bath tub. These tragic events have occurred along with people killing others with guns. Should all of these potential tools for taking a life be removed or perhaps taxed. These anti-gun arguments are stupid. There are millions of law abiding gun owners in this country and as a ratio to ownership few documented gun related murders in the home. There are, however, many incidents of people successfully protecting themselves and love ones from violent criminals with a gun. The far greater majority of us store them safely and use them safely. We are not murderers and neither are our family members.
Gun Owner
October 8th, 2009
3:54 pm
No, Cynthia, guns do not kill people. People kill people whether with guns, knives, broken glass bottles, landmines or cruise missiles. Make no mistake, you are on the wrong side of the logic here.
Atlanta Native
October 8th, 2009
3:54 pm
Actually, Patrick, I always like to picture you as your namesake on SpongeBob (I have an 8 year old, before you comment on me watching it).
Also, this is a place to hone one’s arguments and to see other sides of a story. I have been convinced to change my opinion by some of the cogent and coherent arguments made here. The ignorant knee jerkers of all three sides (Liberal, Conservative and just plain loony) don’t help much, but add a bit of humor.
And if we are so pathetic, what does that make your by coming back repeatedly?
Jimbo
October 8th, 2009
4:06 pm
@neo-Carlinist
Actually you empty a magazine, which can be loaded with a clip..
godless heathen
October 8th, 2009
4:14 pm
I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.
Gary
October 8th, 2009
4:16 pm
Cynthia,
How will you waste my time when the AJC closes it’s doors? Who else would read your nonsense. Shame on me for getting suckered into another horrible post.
MikeB
October 8th, 2009
4:18 pm
Ms. Tucker you try and you try to hammer your agenda from all different angles, but its the same old story. It still does not make sense.
Owning a hand gun for me, is a sobering dose of reality. Knowing the capability I have in my hand, helps me make better decisions.
If gun laws had enough teeth to strip even 25% of the lawless thugs running around Atlanta of their unlicensed weapons, then I would applaud stronger gun control.
The truth is, the gun control you advocate for will reduce my ability to protect my family, because I will obey laws, where criminals will not.
This makes me even more dependent on government for protection. They are overwhelmed at best. How is being a target and or victim going to help?
No Thanks……. I’ll keep my very expensive/precise handgun (not the cheap junk weapons that are involved in most of the shootings).
I will protect my family where laws cannot no matter how they are written…….. I accept this responsibility.
I also agree with the posters who ask “what about the stories of law abiding gun owners who make a positive difference in society?” There are plenty of examples, and you know it.
A reporter should report the entire story, not pick and choose portions to include/omit. An editorial writer should not push an agenda. Write the side you advocate for, and then write an opposing viewpoint to show the reader you understand the entire situation. Not just pushing an agenda to the easily led.
That would be refreshing.
neo-Carlinist
October 8th, 2009
4:30 pm
Jimbo, You got me… on a technicality.
From an online dictionary: A magazine is an ammunition storage and feeding device within or attached to a repeating firearm. Magazines may be integral to the firearm (fixed) or removable (detachable). The magazine functions by moving the cartridges stored in the magazine into a position where they may be loaded into the chamber by the action of the firearm. The detachable magazine is often referred to as a clip; the correctness of this usage has been the subject of debate. I guress some clips are (detachable) magazines, but not all magazines are clips
Josh
October 8th, 2009
4:40 pm
“Now she’s the victim of her own bad acts or her husband’s.”
How in the world is it her fault her husband shot her? What bad act’s where committed by her? This is an insane comment. They should take your Pulitzer Prize away.
neo-Carlinist
October 8th, 2009
4:40 pm
Cynthia, not all “murder-suicides” are “sad stories”. I seem to recall an event in a bunker in Berlin in the Spring of 1945 that kinda was a “happy story”. I realize the there is a difference between news (journalism) and Op-Ed writing, but your opinion should be supported by facts, as opposed to your opinion of murder-suicides. And for the record, the 2nd Amendment is a joke. It’s a pacifier to have Americans think they have freedom. The Founding Fathers were white, slave-owning bankers, politicians, and businessmen. They were quick to “start” the war for independence, but they sure didn’t fight (die) it. So, when all was said and done, they let the “minutemen” keep their guns as something of a parting gift. And in doing so, the task of obliterating the indigenous peoples west of the Mississippi was a bit easier… until THEY (indians) got guns.
Sam
October 8th, 2009
4:53 pm
Like or not we have the right to bear arms. Self defense with a handgun or rifle is not a bad thing. Guns are to be respected(they’re not always the answer) not banned.
Sunshine and Thunder
October 8th, 2009
5:12 pm
I own several guns. Individually and collectively my guns have not killed as many people as Ted Kennedy’s car. My guns are like the fire extiquisher in my kitchen. I’ve never had to use it either.
TO PATRICK:
Stick a fork in it, dude.
jo
October 8th, 2009
5:25 pm
GUN PSYCHOS CAN MAKE THE WORLD A SAFER PLACE BY COMMITTING SUICIDE
Jay
October 8th, 2009
5:36 pm
Your article says an accident, a moment of poor impulse control fueled by rage or alcohol — will turn a law-abiding citizen into a criminal. But I dont see you saying that we need to make sure alcohol is not available, only guns. Truth be known, I bet far more people are killed directly from the effects of alcohol, not to mention indirectly, than by guns. However you never see politicians or liberals trying to abolish law abiding citizens from drinking.
Reason
October 8th, 2009
5:48 pm
The United States is one of the most violent countries in the world, despite our status as a leading industrialized nation. There is NO DOUBT the reason for this is because of guns. Would violence occur if guns were not available? Quite possibly. However, the outcome would generally not result in death.
As sd has mentioned, the second ammendment was created in order for citizens to protect themselves from invading foreign armies. I believe the US military is quite capable of this today. Funny, at the time the amendments were written, the US was most likely concerned of invasion by the British. Currently, even most police in the UK do not carry guns.
Can’t people protect themselves with tazers or by some other less leathal means?
I live in downtown Atlanta and have never had the need for a gun or weapon.
proud gun owner
October 8th, 2009
5:55 pm
i own a gun i have wanted to for a long time after all the crime in the pg area, in maryland and seeing my friends car shot up and him almost killed in front of his house a block away in a suburban neighborhood for an attempted robbery, i went out and bought one, in maryland every gun is sold with a gun lock a real lock not a pice of junk trigger lock witch is easily disabled . either way i keep it in a safe in my closet and i put it in the night stand at night.loaded and ready to go. fact is if someone is going to break in your house at night they all ready assume your in the house and are prepared to confront the owners. that means they will come at you. and as far as kids getting guns and killing themselves or others, its because of 1. the gun isn’t locked up like it should be when the owner isnt around and 2. because they are curious , teach them about it so they know all about it and respect it . take out the curiosity and they will move on to something else . i speak from experience when i was a kid i always wanted one then my dad showed me everything about it and i said oh ok that’s cool and got into skateboarding. also as far as crimes of passion and the like, if someone is going to kill someone they are goign to do it with or without a gun. that’s why there is a waiting period also know as a “cool off period” . if you plan on killing someone its going to happen. the average home is filled with weapons i.e knives irons gas stoves and matches. as well as the internet. guns dont kill people, people kill people. and taxing guns is a way for the government to slowly take more and more power away form the civillians. your an easy target if you cant defend yourself. you cant fight back you will be bullied just like when you were in school.
proud gun owner
October 8th, 2009
6:01 pm
IF YOU DON’T APPROVE OF GUNS AND THNK THEY SHOULD BE BANNED, KEEP YOUR OPINION TO YOURSELF. BECAUSE IT WAS GUNS THAT GAVE YOU FREEDOM. IT WAS GUNS THAT GAVE YOU THIS COUNTRY. IT WAS BECAUSE OF GUNS YOU HAVE THE GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO SPEAK FREELY ON FORUMS LIKE THIS WITHOUT THE WORRY OF BEING PROSECUTED. REMEMBER YOUR PAST, APPLY LESSONS LEARNED TO YOU AND YOUR LOVE ONES FUTURE- SHOOT OFTEN SHOOT SAFE. god bless America and what it used to stand for not what its becoming . if anyone has any comments good or bad feel free to contact me bigmilk2003@gmail.com as a disabled out of work veteran . who fought for your rights and freedom, i have nothing else to do but educate the ignorant
El Jefe
October 8th, 2009
6:28 pm
Reason,
I would suggest to you that you look at Switzerland and Sweden. Both are heavily armed countries for the same reasons.
Switzerland for defense and sport. Every male is a member of the reserve or active military, sports shooting is a national pastime.
Every wonder why Sweden was not invaded during the 1st and 2nd world wars? Too well armed and trained.
I have carried a sidearm for 10 years, never had to even draw it. I also have a secret to a happy marriage, my wife is a very good shot.
In all, a weapon is just a tool, I would say that hammers are more dangerous than handguns in a fist fight.
Anyone that says guns are dangerous, is just plain ignorant and needs to get themselves some education on the subject.
samuel
October 8th, 2009
6:32 pm
I have lived in the city of Atlanta my entire life. I have never owned a gun, no home that I’ve ever lived in has been burglarized, and I have never witnessed a shooting, period, let alone a drive-by shooting. I should also mention that I am black and have lived in black neighborhoods in Southwest Atlanta my entire life. In our home, we have most of the same amenities that most other people have, including satelite TV (DirecTV), a computer with Internet access that I’m using right now, and central air-conditioning. Nowadays, I don’t think there are too many material things that most people lack. For that reason, I don’t think I will ever feel the need to own a gun.
Thogwummpy
October 8th, 2009
6:40 pm
Gee, ain’t it curious that an ALLEGED “journalist” (she’s actually a deep Left activist) would have read the recent story about Washington DC. What is that? WELLLLLLLL…. After the Supreme Court overturned DC’s handgun ban—violent crime has dropped more than 30% in one year. D’oh! Of course, a good liberal knows that it’s important for her to omit elements of the case against her buffoonery.
Thogwummpy
October 8th, 2009
6:42 pm
One more thing…if the current government continues it’s hostility towards our individual liberty….pitchforks ain’t going to cut it.
jconservative
October 8th, 2009
6:45 pm
Patrick
October 8th, 2009
3:41 pm
Thank you for participating. Now don’t you feel better now that you know you are a part of a community instead of the poor loner who spends his days in solitude.
And I am sure Cynthia thanks you for participating, you drive up her numbers.
Tom Middleton
October 8th, 2009
6:57 pm
Ok, guns don’t kill people, people kill guns, rather guns kill guns, or – whatever. It really doesn’t matter. All I know is I don’t own a gun, I never have, and I never will.
And I can honestly tell you, Cynthia, that there have been times in my life where I’m deeply grateful in hindsight that I didn’t. Like you said, violence is just too easy with a gun readily available, and intense anger or fear turned inward or outward can mean unnecessary death – mine or someone else’s.
I’m well beyond all that now, for part of the responsibility for living openly and free in a society like this is in finding the constructive alternatives to violence we need more of these days.
There are always alternatives to violence for those willing to see them. My problem with most gun owners is that they’re unwilling to even look. When guns become a solution to anything, the society loses and we’re losing now. All we have to do is read the news and easily see it for ourselves, Chicago and your commentary case in point.
Please don’t get me wrong. I’m not against the Second Amendment. Rather, I’m FOR personal responsibility, mine and everyone else’s. As we all should know by now, violence begats violence, and the only way we’ll ever get past this terrible chapter in our nation’s history, is through concerned, responsible citizens looking for and finding the alternatives to violence necessary to get us to that next level.
Being an American in “The Land of the Free” these days is kind of weird through my eyes, for most of us are not free at all. We can’t be truly free until we’re able to go where we want to go, do what we want to do, and become what we want to become as a simple matter of living, and all this, of course, begins with personal responsibility and has absolutely nothing to do with violence as a means to an end.
At this point, Cynthia, I have to tell you that I am religious, and honestly see God as my absolute best defense. My job is to daily live the basic principles easily found in every religion on earth, and leave the rest to him (your “her”).
I used to worry about it in my spiritual beginning, but no more. I’ve long since passed that, too. And I can honestly tell you now that I am free, and do you know what’s the most amazing thing about all this? I don’t own a gun, I never have, and I never will!
Kayaker 71
October 8th, 2009
6:59 pm
I have a Glock 27 and my wife has a Taurus Millenium 40cal. Both are loaded and in our bedside nightstands. We are very good shots. We have never had to use them. Sort of like buying life insurance. It’s there if you need it. I pity the poor intruder who would rattle our bedroom door.
TnGelding
October 8th, 2009
7:29 pm
Kayaker 71
October 8th, 2009
6:59 pm
Apparently you missed th moral of this story.
Tom Middleton
October 8th, 2009
6:57 pm
Well put. Congratulations!
Thogwummpy
October 8th, 2009
6:42 pm
And neither will guns.
martin stuart
October 8th, 2009
7:40 pm
more people die in swimming pools than with guns. Ban people and the problem is solved.
TnGelding
October 8th, 2009
7:41 pm
Del
October 8th, 2009
3:49 pm
TN Department of Safety:
“There are about 200 million firearms in the U.S., so even if you do not own a gun, there’s a good chance that your children will encounter one someday. Your children’s friends might live in homes with guns, or your children might find one that a criminal has discarded.”
“In 2005, there were 77 firearm deaths of children and teens in Tennessee, including 22 suicides and 7 accidents.”
“On average every day, 14 American children under the age of 20 are killed and many more are wounded by guns. In 1992, firearms surpassed motor vehicles as the number one cause of brain injury fatalities in the United States.”
According to Safe Kids USA:
Nearly two-thirds of firearm-owning parents with school-age children believe they keep their firearm safely away from their children. However, one study found that when a gun was in the home, 75 percent to 80 percent of first- and second-graders knew where it was kept.
Few children under age 8 can reliably distinguish between real and toy guns or fully understand the consequences of
TnGelding
October 8th, 2009
7:45 pm
Jimbo
October 8th, 2009
3:39 pm
Support the right to arm bears! (WWF)
Kamchak
October 8th, 2009
7:51 pm
TnGelding
October 8th, 2009
6:59 pm
Makes me wonder if Ms. Hain was shot with her own gun.
John Wayne Bobbit should never have fallen asleep (passed out) with his Lorena in the same domicle.
Karma.
TnGelding
October 8th, 2009
7:56 pm
From CDC:
The 15 leading causes of death in 2006 were:
1. Diseases of heart (heart disease)
2. Malignant neoplasms (cancer)
3. Cerebrovascular diseases (stroke)
4. Chronic lower respiratory diseases
5. Accidents (unintentional injuries)
6. Diabetes mellitus (diabetes)
7. Alzheimer’s disease
8. Influenza and pneumonia
9. Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis (kidney disease)
10.Septicemia
11.Intentional self-harm (suicide)
12.Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis
13.Essential hypertension and hypertensive renal disease (hypertension)
14.Parkinson’s disease
15.Assault (homicide)
Firearm—In 2006, 30,896 persons died from firearm injuries in the United States (Tables 18–20), accounting for 17.3 percent of all injury deaths that year. Firearm suicide and homicide, the two major component
causes, accounted for 54.6 and 41.4 percent, respectively, of all firearm injury deaths in 2006. In 2006, the age-adjusted death rate for firearm suicide decreased significantly from 2005 by 3.5 percent, from 5.7 deaths per 100,000 U.S. standard population to 5.5. However, the age-adjusted rate for all firearm injuries was the same in 2006 as in 2005—10.2 deaths per 100,000 U.S. standard population (Tables 18–20). In 2006, males had a firearm-related, age-adjusted death rate that was 6.7 times that for females. By comparison with the rate for the white population, the rate for the black population was 2.3 times higher; AIAN, roughly equivalent; and API, 64.4 percent lower (Table 19). The non-Hispanic white population’s rate was 1.2 times that for the Hispanic population, and the rate for the non-Hispanic black population was 2.8 times that for the Hispanic population (Table 20).
Tax payer funded Public Option, NEVER!
October 8th, 2009
8:19 pm
Computers don’t write stupid blogs….