No compassion for sick illegal immigrants
Working with the president, Democrats in Congress are doing everything they can to make sure no illegal immigrant gains any benefit from health insurance reform. Given the politics, you can hardly blame them. Joe Wilson isn’t the only conservative agitated over the prospect that some undocumented worker somewhere in South Carolina or Iowa or California might get cheap health insurance with a taxpayer subsidy.
Still, it seems a poor reflection on one of the richest countries in the world that we are so stingy, so callous and so xenophobic. At least we’ve not reached the point of turning away cases of immediate need — victims of car accidents or heart attacks or others who need emergency care. The law still requires emergency rooms to treat such patients without regard for their immigration status. (That wouldn’t change with health care reform.)
But, as a conundrum in Atlanta demonstrates, we may be on the verge of refusing care to chronically ill immigrants who would die without continuing medical intervention. Grady Memorial, Atlanta’s big public hospital, is embroiled in controversy as it tries to close an outpatient dialysis clinic offering last ditch care to dozens of poor patients, many of whom are illegal immigrants.
Like many of the nation’s urban charity hospitals, Grady has struggled for years just to keep the doors open to serve its overwhelmingly poor population. A tough new CEO and a new board of directors have insisted on cuts, including a plan to close an old, ill-equiped dialysis clinic that has lost $2 million to $4 million a year for several years. The hospital planned to transfer its patients to other facilities that accept Medicaid. But it now turns out that around 60 of the clinic’s patients are illegal immigrants who are not eligible for the insurance program for the poor.
A Georgia judge has issued an injunction ordering the hospital to keep the clinic open temporarily. The hospital says it will to pay to send willing patients back to their native countries or to other states, a plan that has produced its own controversy. Grady officials also say they are willing to pay for patients to go to other clinics, although that, too, is likely to produce an outcry from those who believe illegal immigrants should not receive any benefits.
Meanwhile, the patients are left to wonder whether they will die soon. Some of them need dialysis three times a week, which suggests a very low level of kidney function. Without dialysis, which is prohibitively expensive out of pocket, some might die within a few weeks.
I was struck by the ages of some of the patients, people in their 30s and 40s. I don’t know their personal histories, but I doubt these were people who came to the U.S. seeking medical treatment. They came here to work and may have worked hard for several years before they developed an illness. Now, they need care.
I know from reading the comments on my blog how little sympathy there is for them in some quarters. Indeed, I’ve been surprised by how little sympathy there is even for Americans without access to medical care. A theme among the commenters is this: “I did well in school; I worked hard to get a good job; now I have health insurance. If others worked as hard as I, they’d have health insurance, too.” What happened to a more generous sentiment, summed up in words attributed to a long-dead evangelical preacher: There but by the grace of God, go I?
For illegal immigrants, of course, the sentiments are even harsher, and President Obama can’t afford to lose health care reform to outrage over workers who crossed the borders illegally. Still, it’s troubling this country, which fancies itself the “shining city on a hill,” can’t muster a bit more compassion.
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© 2009 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
245 comments Add your comment
Scott
September 22nd, 2009
5:42 pm
Illegal immigrants are not turned away from medical care–it is already against the law to do that. To have differences on the question of insurance coverage, who pays for it, and so on, is not a sign that one lacks compassion, nor is it a sign of xenophobia. Can’t you make the argument for having them covered under a massive state-run insurance system, without resorting to these kind of tactics?
NRB
September 22nd, 2009
6:31 pm
Oh brother, here we go on the ol’ guilt trip about being the “world’s richest nation” yet stingiest.
Please do some research before typing your anti-USA diatribe. Try it just for once. The USA donates more money than any other nation on earth…and that includes private citizens.
Give me a break.
If you’re so generous…start cutting a check every month and send it to La Raza so that they can start up an “undocumented workers health fund”. Or are you only generous with EVERYONE else’s money…like a typical dumb liberal.
Idiot. Seriously. When will this rag finally shut down for good.
Tom Cannon
September 22nd, 2009
6:48 pm
Enter your comments here
Cynthia,
Attitudes will change when we start to realize we’re all in the same leaky boat. A great quote by John W. Garner sums it up: “I sometimes think that history mighty easily say about this nation: It was a great nation full of talented people with enormous energy who forgot that they needed one another.”
Sincerely,
Tom Cannon
Kayaker 71
September 22nd, 2009
7:08 pm
Illegals come here for a job, the money and a “new start”.
They are not denied medical care through ERs in all hospitals.
Someone else pays for this care.
This drives up hospital costs.
Hospitals are run as a business.
Businesses cannot survive by loosing money. (Grady Hospital)
So hospitals shut down in many border states because they cannot afford the cost.
We are supposed to like this and be compassionate to someone who entered our country illegally.
The children of these illegals number over 700,000 and are citizens of this country.
They are a burden on an already over spent, understaffed struggling school system.
We are supposed to feel compassion for someone who has committed a crime by crossing our borders illegally.
Cynthia feels that these people belong in our country and not in Mexico, Central America and beyond.
Compassion, Cynthia, costs the American taxpayer lots of money.
California is 16B in the red, much of that because of paying for the largest illegal immigrant population of any state in this country.
We are supposed to like that and it should not bother us.
We should not be upset at our lawmakers for not upholding our immigration laws.
We should not be upset at our lawmakers for patronizing the latino vote at election time.
We need to continue to open our borders to these poor unfortunate people who will suck our country dry and not learn our language or assimilate to our culture and to our country.
We should not be upset that we are turning into a latino welfare state.
Right.
Spartann
September 22nd, 2009
7:22 pm
Its true, “There but for the Grace of God go I “……… I believe those that are critically ill and need immediate attention should be treated…… That doesn’t mean I have to foot the bill for every illegal in this country that decides to whelp a child on our front door step… nor am I responsible for teaching them how to distinguish a head cold from pneumonia so they know when to go to Walgreens or the Emergency Room …
Im the grandson of immigrants who came through the “front door”……I grew up in a household where “Good Country America” was said more oft than not….I was taught how to respect the country that has given me every opportunity …. Heck yeah I work hard …I volunteer …I pay my taxes… but I don’t try to scam the system….I don’t side step the law…. nor do I fool people that have given me a chance to succeed…
I’ve worked with employees that were illegal residents…. When it came to curbing waste and being conscientious on the job site for our employer, most believed and would say , “Why should I ?? The Boss has money and he can afford it “…
I’ve heard the same mantra come from the same people when they refer to our country…”Americans got lots of money… Let Uncle Sam pay”…..
NEWS FLASH GIRL-FRIEND ===> The country’s coffers are bare….
Come on Ms Cynthia, if not now, when are Americans gonna seriously look at those who think we’ve turned a blind eye to them getting over on us , know what Im saying girl ???
jconservative
September 22nd, 2009
7:24 pm
Actually there is a real simple solution to the problem. The Christian community.
‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
If asked, I am sure the Christian community will open the wallets & be happy to pick up the tab for “the least of these”.
Public Option's A Go
September 22nd, 2009
8:16 pm
What have you got against a link Cynthia–it’s hard to believe you read the comments when you don’t realize you and Cox have this thing rigged to prohibit links.
The Christian community isn’t going to do jack to put a dent in health care immigrants or middle America–it hasn’t and it won’t.
If there is a theme among your commenters that they did well in school, Cynthia, the quality of their comments undermines that.
Here’s the deal on not even allowing undocumented imigrants to buy insurance. Take Grady as an example. First that would mean (in the dead Baucus bill) that they wouldn’t be in the pools. The bell shaped curve of them is healthy, and that would raise premiums and deductible.s
Let’s look at a hospital like Grady. Where do their doctors come from including the 600 residents and fellow? They aren’t paid by Grady. They’re paid by Cynthia and anyone else who pays federal taxes. Every doctor is Emory (for the most part) and a much smaller percent are Morehouse. And the taxpayer pays their salaries through a federal grant–all of ‘em.
So if illegal immigrants are forbidden to buy insurance, they will just show up at ERs like Grady for all their care, and Cynthia and other taxpayers will pay more.
Public Option's A Go
September 22nd, 2009
8:18 pm
In the Baucus plan, Americans between 200% and 300% of the poverty line would be paying 19-20% of their income to buy one of the cheaper plans confirmed this afternnon by CBO Doug Elmendorf in response to a question by Ron Wyden. That would be good for making sure that 1/2 Atlantans don’t have health insurance if there is no public option choice.
How bout that Repubozos, ready to ante up 20% of your income in a forced crap plan? How does a choice of a public option look to ya now?
20% of your income for insurance that can charge and raise premiums at will and drop you when you get sick. Beautiful.
Michael H. Smith
September 22nd, 2009
8:23 pm
Open wallets? Why sure thing, do they all need a bus ticket back home to the nearest hospital emergency room in Mexico or somewhere in Central America? The rest can be expressed air mailed considering their small numbers: Stamped return to sender – worldwide.
janet
September 22nd, 2009
8:25 pm
Enter your comments here To those who say their grandparents or ancestors were immigrants as were mine and they entered through the “front door”, there currently is no front door into America from Mexico or Latin America. The immigration system is broken and without the labor of these immigrants, the machine that drives the growth of Atlanta and most of the South would stop dead in its tracks.
Remember most of these illegal immigrants pay Social Security Taxes, Unemployment , Medicare and all the other standard deductions. They never get them in a refund because they don’t file taxes. It is estimated that in 2007, illegal immigrant contributions to Social Security were between 5-7 billion dollars. There are no statistics available as to the amount for with holding taxes that are not refunded. But I am sure it is even higher.
I am not in favor of illegal immigration. I think it has created an underclass of people in this country that goes against the very grain of this country’s basic tenets. Remember, no one leaves their own country and goes to a new one because life was so fantastic in their own country. They leave to work and find a better life. I am for a guest worker program so that these workers can contribute, pay taxes, return to their home country and then re enter legally each time they wish to work. Currently the laws and regulations prohibit this so they stay and bring their families over. They are human and enjoy family life just as much as we do.
One last thought, the US created this mess of illegals. Prior to 9/11, most of the Hispanic workers in the Metro area were men from ages 18-35 and single. They went home in the winter to be with their wives, children and families. After 9/11, the US made it impossible to do this so rather than be alone here all the time and never return to their homeland, they brought their loved ones here. And so we have a crush on our social services. Let them come and go with legality and I assure you there would be a decrease in the number of Hispanic females and children .
jstrick
September 22nd, 2009
8:28 pm
it’s not just compassion that’s missing, it’s common sense. If you wait to get treatment, it ultimately costs all of us more. What sense does it make to deny anyone access to a healthcare plan if they are putting their own money into the pool?
catlady
September 22nd, 2009
8:38 pm
Simple solution: if they are here illegally they are committing a crime. Put them in jail and see how long they last with “wonderful” jail medical care. OR sponsor sending them home. Let them choose which one.
TnGelding
September 22nd, 2009
8:44 pm
What’s wrong with this picture? The federal government picks up the tab for illegals at the ER, but citizens with insurance are forced to file bankruptcy because of huge medical bills. There’s where a lot of the compassion has gone, but many of us never had any.
Public Option's A Go
September 22nd, 2009
8:53 pm
Protect the insurance companies: You’ll have to google Will Farrell’s video because Cynthia hasn’t figured out what a link is.
It’s time for everybody to step up like the wingnut whacknuts and protect the victim insurance companies–they have to keep making billions while taking 20% of your income–it’s the only way you can get your country back.
Public Option's A Go
September 22nd, 2009
8:55 pm
We have put a lot of them in jail–thousands and killed thousands of them with the crap jail medical care. It’s good to see Tom Delay shaking his cheeks auditioning for all his future cell mates in the TV room at the prison.
A New America
September 22nd, 2009
8:56 pm
The older immigrants – legal, illegal, or otherwise…from Europe (there are many, many of us European immigrants that arrived in the U.S. illegally), from Asia, the Caribbean, Latin America, Africa, India… – have made a major investment in the building of America. We don’t mind that they are willing to do the most menial back-breaking work: Hotel Guest/Room Services, Restaurant back (back) kitchen staff, and etc. In fact, we’re happy, and some would argue very comfortable with this eco-social structure. Surely, we wouldn’t want people that look like us to be subjected to these lowly positions. Imagine a guy that looks like you, or a women that looks just like your wife or daughter or mother turning down sheets and cleaning up hotel rooms for a survival-level wage, at best. Or dealing with soiled restaurant dishes and trash with no real means of upward corporate mobility. Working under conditions where many (of your) germs are present. Dealing with sheets, bathrooms, toiletries, used tissues… These people have to get sick!!! There picking up after your nasty, filthy selves. Logically, wouldn’t be in our best interest to do our best to take care of those, who have been taking care of us. If not, why don’t you clean up after me at the conclusion of my next few hotel stays – I do tip well.
By the way, have you forgotten your own family origin. If you’re of European descent, you’re likely a few generations (at most), from leaving the caves of the Caucasus Mountains, like myself. It’s the European version of where your family’s from – Appalachia. So, very kindly, be more compassionate, will ya?
Public Option's A Go
September 22nd, 2009
9:00 pm
I always thought these morons yelling they wanted their country back like Katy Abram were American Indians. Who knew?
Public Option's A Go
September 22nd, 2009
9:11 pm
None of these immigrant trashing bigots here are American Indians, and of course they have forgotten they aren’t from here. Indians spoke better English but also goshdarnit.
Tall
September 22nd, 2009
9:14 pm
Public Option’s a Go:
If I were here illegally, I wouldn’t buy insurance. I’m already entitled to “free” medical care at the emergency room. Why waste money on insurance?
ck hall
September 22nd, 2009
9:15 pm
Another bleeding heart story from the liberals..I guess I need to break out the violins on this one..
btc
September 22nd, 2009
9:19 pm
if they didnt break the law coming here, and are not breaking the law every second they are here, i would have more compassion. sorry, but someone who cares little about the law deserves no compassion.
Our own worst enemy
September 22nd, 2009
9:19 pm
As a small business owner, I pay most of the health care premiums for my employees. I do not see how I can ask someone in my employ to spend his/her work week supporting my business, and not provide that person with access to our health care system. What frustrates me is the determined attempts of companies, large and small, to avoid this expense. If our health care system is going to continue to feature employment-based private insurance, then the employers are going to have to support, and not circumvent, the system.
There should be no approval of the massive disregard of our laws by millions of illegal immigrants. However, I squarely place much of the blame concerning the issue of illegal immigrant health care financing on “entrepreneurs” driven to improve the bottom line by lowering their labor costs through hiring illegal immigrants, and shifting the burden of medical costs to the general public. These employers want the labor support of their business endeavors without providing a reasonable chance for their workers to procure adequate health care. Of course, when we support (and do not punish) these businesses, we only perpetuate the cycle that rewards the employer who is best at shedding production costs.
We should not ask another human being to provide us services while denying him/her the medical care required to survive. If we accept the employment of illegal immigrants, we should bear the cost of their health care. If we want to diminish this medical cost and diminish the number of illegal immigrants, we need to penalize the employers of these workers, and we need to be prepared to pay extra for the services that will become more scarce.
Tax payer funded Public Option, NEVER!
September 22nd, 2009
9:23 pm
How about the countries they came from footing the bills? I certainly wouldn’t expect to be in another country, get sick and not be responsible for my bill, would you?
Kayaker 71
September 22nd, 2009
9:33 pm
Options,
“Immigrant trashing bigots”…. no one is “trashing” those who came to this country legally. They are welcome to become Americans and will, no doubt, assimilate well to our country and what we stand for. “Illegals pay Social Security”… how can they do that without a SS number? Can illegals obtain a SS# legally? Can they pay Medicare, payroll taxes and file a tax return without a SS#?
Most send their wages home via the US Postal Service, in the form of a US Postal Service money order and pay nothing toward SS, Medicare, payroll taxes. At last count, close to 3B per year.
Janet, get your story straight.
Kayaker 71
September 22nd, 2009
9:36 pm
Enemy,
The best way to solve the immigrant problem would be to heavily fine those employers who hire illegals and impose a jail sentence on them. Guess how long they would hire these people?
stew
September 22nd, 2009
9:38 pm
I agree with Cynthia that we should give a sick illegal alien’s health care to get them ready for a tax payer funded trip home as soon as possible and let their home country fund all additional care and expense. The illegal’s could always open their wallets and pay for the health care if they choose. The hospitals’ take cash.
Charlie
September 22nd, 2009
9:39 pm
If I were Cynthia,Oprah,Jessie or Al, I”d donate all my money to the welfare and care of all the hispanics.You are correct Cynthia I have no compassion for any of these people.i wish that all of these people lived with you and the rest of the rich sympathetic idiots that deprive hard working AMERICANS that are legal.The hell with you.
Public Option's A Go
September 22nd, 2009
9:58 pm
Tall–
I don’t know what your medical experience is. I was a doctor for eight years in tertiary ERs. They aren’t equipped to do chronic disease care that PCPs–FPs and Internists and Pediatricians do. They aren’t trained to do it–i.e. they don’t friggin know how. ER’s are best equipped to treat emergencies. Sure over the last 15 years we’ve 2 teired them to take care of little Suzy’s ear or sore throat, but the major bulk of chronic diseases cannot even begin to be handled in the emergency rooms.
You don’t titrate and instruct a patient with AODM Type II, and counsel them as to meds, diet and sometimes insulin or AODM Type I in an emergency room. You don’t have the friggin time because someone is coming in with trauma, an MI or multiple people are coming in with lacerations in fractures just to name a little of what you see in a given day or night.
And I’ll repeat–
Take an illegal immigrant who under the bill that I’m watching being torn up right now on C-Span II and it feels great to watch Schumer and Kerry aneird Nelson tell Grassley he made a
deal that didn’t represent their states which have many tens of millions more population.
Take the hospital they go to in Atlanta when they don’t have insurance–Grady. You pay for their care unless you’re tax evading. All the “Grady” doctors aren’t paid by Grady. They come from two places–Morehouse and Emory. Their paychecks come directly not out of Morehouse or Grady–but out of a federal grant. Federal means you unless you’re evading your taxes.
Grassley and Conrad reacting to the bozo who yelled “liar” got cute and tried to prevent illegal immigrants from buying any insurance. That would put them in the ERs and you’d paid for them.
But make no mistake about it–ERs are not the place to take care of chronic medical diseases for a number of reasons–the 3 chief being the physicians aren’t trained to do it; they don’t have the TIME; they don’t have any of the equipment. And a lot of those people may need admission–and YOU pay for that.
So I know Dr. George Bush who couldn’t have lasted a day in freshman med school said ERs were a great place to take care of people who couldn’t afford care, but I don’t think Dr. George Bush has seen any patients or had a day of training to do it.
Jack McMillan
September 22nd, 2009
10:00 pm
Ms Tucker, show us your charitable yearly contributions and I will
show you where OUR compassion has gone!
Class of '98
September 22nd, 2009
10:01 pm
Hi Cynthia.
I’m sick and I don’t have insurance. If we exchange email addresses, can I send you my mailing address so you can send me a check?
Thanks in advance for your compassion.
Tall
September 22nd, 2009
10:06 pm
A New America…..they don’t have to be here. My grandparents immigrated from Ireland in the 1920’s.
They just wanted a chance to be here. My maternal granfather milked cows at a dairy farm in the early morning hours then painted houses later in the day. There were no entitlements for them and they were too proud and stubborn to take them anyway. Over the years, things got better. My mother and her siblings lived comfortably and grew up to be part of the American dream. Although my grandparents never lost their affinity for Ireland, they were proud to be Americans. There was no in your face flag waving(of the Irish flag), or marching for their “rights”, and medical services were paid for out of pocket.
Last weekend, I waited in the checkout line at my local Publix. In front of me was a Mexican woman and her two kids. She paid for her groceries with food stamps. After that, she proceeded to the customer service desk and purchased a Western Union money order for $930. Money to be sent to Mexico. I know this because I saw the cash in her purse at checkout and I followed her over out of curiosity.
My family belongs to a church that donates gifts to Latin families at Christmas time. I used to be involved with it at one time, but not any more. I was part of a team that brought the gifts to the mission in Marietta to be distributed. The families submitted a list of items that they wanted. That Christmas, I was unemployed – and still am. The gifts these familes received from charity were better than I could give my own family. Beautiful baby items and toys and clothes. The parking lot was filled with nice cars. Not new cars, but better that the one I drove at the time. Instead of feeling good about this, I felt like a sucker. Not a single recipient even said thank you.
Only an ignorant fool would argue against the benefits that immigration has brought to the U.S. But to allow some ten million plus undocumented aliens to come into this country and take and live off the system instead of living within it is going to generate resentment.
The town I live in has a fair number of apartment complexes in it. Immigrant families move in to the apartments. Their children then go to the public schools. The ethnic balances begin to change. White parents – liberal ones, too – are very sensitive to ethnic mixes in the public schools. The white families start to leave for Alpharetta, Cobb County or they send their kids to private schools if they can afford them. Property values begin to slide.
If you wish to call me bigoted or racist, so be it. I’m just commenting on my own observations and experiences. There is no lack of compassion in this country. There are plenty of Churches and other groups that offer help. What there is, is a finite ability to provide entiltement programs. Some day, the hard choices will have to be made.
Tall
September 22nd, 2009
10:17 pm
Public Option’s a go:
You’re missing my point: If I am going to be treated for “free”, why should I buy insurance? If I am an illegal immigrant, I want to work off the books and be paid cash. I will take advantage of any benefit that I don’t have to pay for.
I don’t care about your past experiences. In fact, I don’t believe that you are or were a physician. You have too much time to post on the blogs here. But if you indeed are, why don’t you set up an outpatient clinic and treat the poor on an affordable cash basis? You complain bitterly about the insurers, but they pay the bills. Go check the S&P reports on any publicly traded health care provider. At best, their profits are in the 5% – 6% range. It’s the physicians who benefit most from the lack of transparency. If you really are a doc, then you already know that.
DLink
September 22nd, 2009
10:23 pm
Health care in France is rated by the World Health Organization 37 countries ahead of the United states. 34 Countries have a longer life expectancy than the U.S. (SouthEastern U.S. having the lowest female and male life expectancy in the U.S.), after those 35 other civilized countries. The United States spends more per capita on healthcare than any other nation on the planet. Research all those above and come to my conclusion, “Fix that, and we should be able to toss the busting rear working illegal immigrant a bone.”
And still cut the costs in half as a country. How does saving money sound to you folks? Make the system work right and we can stop being broke and be a better country and people for it.
Public Option's A Go
September 22nd, 2009
10:33 pm
@ Tall. No one cares what you believe. You don’t know who is an illegal immigrant and who isn’t. If you’re sure start following them an calling ICE and be prepared for the law suits when you’re wrong.
I didn’t post on this blog until late tonight moron, and if you check Bookman’s I didn’t post until lunch you idiot and then a couple of seconds until after 4PM. And if you want to make a fool out of your stupid butt in record time, take up any medical or legal topic and watch what happens to you. Bring it.
I complain bitterly and you have no clue because the insurers actually won’t pay a lot of the bills; they’ve doubled their rates or tripled them with pre-existing conditions that are minor; they’ve droppped 14000 people a day 430 Georgians who paid premiums for years when they got significantly sick. And don’t lecture me or any other MD about how they pay the bills you piece of trash–we have had to waste time fighting them for years. You know nothing about insurance and billiing and even less about medicine.
Pick a disease and I’ll clean your clock at wharp speed faster than you can google. Your delusions don’t replace the truth but I understand you’re a right wing whackjob birther tenther with the mind tools of Sarah Palin and Katy Abram.
I know the stock charts as relates to medicine much better than you do. I’ve done nothing else my entire adult life. 16% of the friggin’ GDP is health expense and I DVR’d Elmendorf telling Grassley, Conrad, and Baucus that coops are absolute failures this afternoon.
You have no grasp of clinical medicine. You have no grasp of any of the five bills. You have no grasp of how the House or Senate works, and you’re a biggoted contemptable little maggot brimming with ignorance and a grandiose grasp of your own superficial self-importance.
Public Option's A Go
September 22nd, 2009
10:42 pm
BTW “Tall”–
If and when you want to tell us how chronic diseases can be treated in your outpt. ER, or what your health care plan is feel free it’s fun to see a Sarah Palin character try to discuss an issue–you a flack for insurance cotmpanies who wrote the Baucus bill that Schumer and Kerry began tearing up tonight whle Grassley threw a fit and learned that his deals didn’t represent the Senate?
You some kind of time expert on how other people multitask?
I haven’t seen one substantive comment out of you yet on healthcare or any other topic.
A New America
September 22nd, 2009
10:48 pm
Tall…
I would not venture to label you either. I actually feel your response offers a real personal accounting of your experience(s). I do respect it. You do touch on some of the heavier complexities of ethnicity in America that would resonate quite differently to other Americans who may have been native to this country before even your grandparents immigrated to America. Dejure (by law) and defacto (status quo) segregation meant U.S. citizens were carved out of the opportunity to work there way through, and up the system. That’s a more recent phenomenon for some ethic groups who’s been here for generations. Unfortunately and tragically, the true ‘Native Americans’ by and large, never experienced the opportunity of upward mobility that your grandparents may have had. I’d admit, some the nuances of reality, as you’ve pointed out, does exist.
Public Option's A Go
September 22nd, 2009
10:49 pm
What sounds right to me is a public option as competition for the scumbag insuranc e companies that have a monopoly by providing only two price gouging choices in 94% of the US.
As to immigrants, instead of the moron judges in immigration courts who aren’t appointed but are hired by DOJ as plum jobs, some of them with no litigation experience whatsoever as immigration lawyers (like Joe Wilson who lied about it last week), instead of having them wait 10 and 15 years when they want to immigrate legally to be approved, allow them to be put on the fast track and get approved inside a year. They work their butts off for the most part doing jobs that white red neck hicks in a state that has never ranked above 47% in the SATs and can barely read and write with any level of sophistication won’t do.
This country hasn’t had an immigration policy that makes sense in its history, and it’s about time Congress fixes that.
We have displaced over 3 million Iraqi women who have lost their husbands and their childrens’ fathers and we haven’t admitted any of them to this country. The bordering middle eastern Arab states won’t grant them work permits.
Farm Boy
September 22nd, 2009
10:52 pm
I volunteer at English as a Second Language classes. It’s fascinating to watch immigrants who work their butts off during the day in service jobs show up, open books, and work hard to learn English.
I believe immigrants have something in common with the rest of us. All of us, red or yellow, black or white, have good in our skin color and bad in our skin color.
Looking for hard workers? I see them in brown, black, yellow, white, etc.
Looking for lazy losers wanting the government to solve all of their issues? I see them in brown, black, yellow, white, etc.
Looking for something to be mad about? You’ll find it. Anywhere, anytime.
Looking for something to be happy about? Same answer.
Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be.
Scott
September 22nd, 2009
10:56 pm
No one–I hope–lacks compassion for people who are suffering, regardless of how they got into this country. But I am continually astonished by the notion that wherever there is suffering–or even the slightest infelicity–a government program is the best solution to it. 45 years and more than $7 trillion after LBJ declared War on Poverty, we still have poverty; indeed, the situation in poor communities is in some ways worse, particularly with the epidemic of single mothers, teenage mothers, and deadbeat dads, and all the crime and despair and broken lives that go along with that. Instead of eliminating poverty, all the government does is subsidize it, together with the self-destructive behavior that exacerbates it. Whatever the solution to the problem of illegal immigrants, experience with the War on Poverty ought to tell us that the worst response would be for the government to subsidize their continued illegal presence, and all the associated problems with poverty and crime, and new generations being born into poverty and crime, that go with it — and all of it under the guise of “compassion.”
Margaret
September 22nd, 2009
11:03 pm
Janet has a very good point. And Catlady, we simply cannot jail the vast numbers of illegals. At some point we have to fact the fact that illegal immigrants do not want to and will not go home. It will take a brave and innovative President to come up with an equitable plan to handle this situation. These are people and they should be valued for who and what they are and can be – they should not become an underclass to be ignored and mistreated. I think we should get a grip on the process to stop new violators and find a way to legitimize those illegals who are already working to make new lives for themselves and recognize their efforts.
What are the economics in this? The under-paid illegal immigrant who pays taxes but doesn’t get refunds or other benefits is supporting us – so tell us the numbers, how many dollars? Then tell us the numbers on what it would cost to provide basic health care for them. What’s the difference? I don’t know, but that ‘free’ health care could be partially funded based on that difference and just the remainder would have to be funded based on compassion.
sinz52
September 22nd, 2009
11:11 pm
I have a compassionate yet sensible solution: The state should start a program to provide these immigrants with vouchers which are good for a year of medical treatment–but only in Mexican hospitals. That is, we’ll pay to send these illegal immigrants to any Mexican dialysis clinic of their choice, for a full year. After which they’re on their own.
It’s a good investment. We appear compassionate and we get them to seek treatment in their native land.
Scott
September 22nd, 2009
11:21 pm
Tall,
Your family’s experience is similar to the experience of many immigrant families in this country for many many years who started out in poverty and raised themselves up by virtue not of government handouts or programs but by virtue of economic opportunity and hard work. This is the true immigrant experience in this country–this country was built by immigrants who came here legally to pursue freedom and economic opportunity, like my own German immigrant ancestors who came here in the 1860s and worked for generations in the steel industry in Pennsylvania; immigrants like them, and like your own ancestors, did not come here to pursue handouts. That’s the immigrant story that needs to be remembered and honored–and your story was very much worth being told.
bill
September 22nd, 2009
11:30 pm
Cynthia, I guess if a burgular was vandalizing your house fell over your ottoman and broke his leg,you would set him up in your extra bedroom and mend his broken leg.After all he was Just trying to get buy and find some extra cash so he could feed his poor family. Once again you display your amazingly short sighted ignorance. Congress has repeatedly voted down provisions to include enforcement and legal status, to make sure they are NOT here illegally.The president and his minions (insert yours and congress’s picture here)do not care if we have health-care,all they want is a base that will always vote them back in office. Automatic citizenship passed largely by Dem’s = votes for them. My wife and I give alot to charity and our church.How much do you give? Or, for that matter,ask your wonderful Pres. how much he gave to charity I bet we gave more than he did and we do not make near as much as he does. I work hard for MY money and don’t want to be forced into supplying healthcare to people who willingly come here and break our laws.
Public Option's A Go
September 22nd, 2009
11:33 pm
Insurance Executives Admit Denial of Claims Can Be Fatal http://bit.ly/9×2Kf
Public Option's A Go
September 22nd, 2009
11:39 pm
That cornpone burglar argument was made by the Senatuh with 3 major malpractice settlements from Wyoming.
And what you hick Repubozos don’t get still is that you’re going to keep paying for illegal immigrants if you don’t allow them to get insurance only you’ll keep paying a helluva lot more because their conditions will be worse and they ain’t goin anywhere. You’d best get your corpone bump on a log Senatuhs to give immigrants a faster track than 10-15 years legally–try a year.
Public Option's A Go
September 22nd, 2009
11:43 pm
It’s irrelevant what Obamas tithe. What’s relevant is your party is being stopped tonight and tomorrow from protecting insurance companies and that we give them competition to lwoer prices. This bill is not about immigration;; it’s about middle America, older people and poor people. Mosf of it is about middle ‘Americans that your party is trying to bankrupt.
Charging middle Americans who make 66 grand 20% of their income is insane. That’s what Grassley and Baucus tried to do to protect their johns the insurance companies.
janet
September 22nd, 2009
11:45 pm
Enter your comments here Tall: Ever hear of a TAX ID Number? It is issued legally by the US Govt. It has the same amount of numbers and configuration as a social security number. Anyone can get one and use it to have taxes, SS etc held from a check.
And yes you can get a bogus SS number so that you can work and pay into the system and never get any of it back. But they are happy to do that so that they can work.
As I recall the former President Bush put into place a tax cut for the top 2% of income owners in the US. It was supposed to really help the economy. Take a look at what happened on his watch in Sept 2008….total collapse and no trickle down from the rich to the working class. Tax reduction and a war…no country in history has ever done that.
Check your numbers, the middle class has lost buying and earning power due to the economic policies of the last Republican president. Immigrants had nothing to do with that.
As for passing judgement on someone with food stamps and sending money home, here is a question for you. If you had adult children and they knew you were in need would they send you money? If they are American the answer is probably no. You will say ‘yes’ but in your heart you know your kids would not do without for you. These immigrants whether from the other America, Africa or anywhere else do it out of a sense of responsiblity to their parents and family. They work like dogs and send most of it home. Of course, they pay rent (which includes property taxes), buy groceries(which includes sales tax).
Did you know that if a foreign national from a country that the US requires a Visa wants to visit the USA for a vacation. He or She has a good job in their country perhaps as a teacher, lab tech etc, they most go to the US Consulate and pay the equivalent of 500.00USD to apply for a visitor visa along with all the documentation of job,bank acct etc. Then the US representative can deny them the visa. And we KEEP the money. No one ever mentions this horrible denial of visitors to our country. The decision is totally arbitrary.
Ever gone to Mexico or an island in the Caribbean? Did you need a visa? Did you pay anything except for your vacation? You would be outraged if you had to pay to apply for a visa then were turned down and they kept the money.
Even in this economic melt down, I have seen no men or women in the Atlanta area ( my place of residence) who are eager to seek or willing to work manual labor. None of them. Now maybe you know one or two but that does not a crowd make. And most of these individuals don’t know how to use a hammer : too many moving parts.
If you say your grandparents immigrated here from Europe ( all of mine did ) and they worked hard (and mine did) and they expected nothing that was because Social Security was not implemented until FDR and Medicare under Johnson. So everyone was in the same boat both actually and figuratively.
And I doubt that insurance company profit margins at 5% . And MRI in the US is approx. 2,000dollars. Same MRI in Japan 98.00dollars and they are making a profit. Where does all that premium money go? Well it is to the CEO’s and the other executives. Check out the earnings of these individuals and then you will know why you are denied coverage for a treatment etc. These people have no moral compass at all.
I repeat the system is broken and yes they should be legal. But if they are going to be here let them buy health insurance. They are driving cars without insurance because they can’t buy it. If I were an auto insurance broker, I would lobby the Ga Representatives to allow anyone to buy car insurance. Think of the profits immediately for them. I can’t believe that the insurance industry – greedy as they are- haven’t been lobbying for undocumented alien insurance plans that they can sell. Of course, once sold they would deny them coverage like they do to all us “real Americans”.
MaryP
September 22nd, 2009
11:50 pm
Cynthia,
Could you not even pretend to check the facts prior to spouting your nonsense? Sunday’s article about Grady’s Dialysis Center in the AJC clearly stated that most of these illegal immigrants getting dialysis at Grady did, in fact, come here just to obtain the free medical treatments. Are you insinuating that the AJC reporter misstated the facts, or are you simply ignoring any truth and facts that do not back up your anti-conservative soapbox? I suppose you can get away with blatant falsehoods as long as they are labeled as “editorials.” Keeping Grady’s Dialysis Center open is not fiscally viable. As far as being “kind” and “caring for those less fortunate,” let’s take care of the legal U.S. citizens who are waiting for expensive treatments but can’t get them due to lack of insurance or other funds.
andreabeth
September 22nd, 2009
11:52 pm
Enter your comments here
“I was struck by the ages of some of the patients, people in their 30s and 40s. I don’t know their personal histories, but I doubt these were people who came to the U.S. seeking medical treatment. They came here to work and may have worked hard for several years before they developed an illness. Now, they need care.”
Cynthia, you can’t possibly be that dense. Or maybe you can. OF COURSE sick illegal aliens come to the US for the specific purpose of taking advantage of our healthcare system. This has been going on for years. Look up the name ‘Ana Puente’ in the LA Times and read about an illegal who has received 3 liver transplants at a cost of over $2 million. This abuse of our system has to stop. I can think of no reason why we should be expected to provide care for chronic conditions to people who have no business being here in the first place. If they show up in an ER, their condition should be stabilized and they should be deported to their home country at the first opportunity.
ken
September 23rd, 2009
12:33 am
Oh please, go to Mexico and see what compassion they have for you. And be sure that you ask for your rights and free medical at their hospitals. You gona be surprised.
Spend YOUR money Cindy. Mine goes to MY family and AMERICANS in need.
MikeB
September 23rd, 2009
12:49 am
I see alot of you challenging Ms. Tucker to pony up her share, or to publish what charitable donations she’s made………
My guess is she has made a few, and good on her for those (If she has not, she really needs to look in the mirror and ask herself if this was a smart editorial to author).
If she, then I submitt that it will be harder for Americans to make these donations to charities in the future, if the govt. keeps trying to say from every angle possible “We know whats best for you….. You go work hard, earn the money, and we will tax it. Then we can distribute it where we think it needs to go.”
The fact that their are people out there who think this approach to govt. is acceptable is unbeleivable……… Any person who has been promoted or taken initiative is doing so, so that he/she can have more choices in life……………… Money = choices……. Earn more money = Make more choices……….. IF YA EARN IT LEGALLY, YA SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO KEEP IT. YA SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO DECIDE WHERE TO INVEST AND WHAT CHARITIES TO SUPPORT.
If the Obama administration wants to play this healthcare / compassion yent (guilt) card. Then hardworking citizens seeing the control they have over their own destiny and choices, will tighten up charities will die, and less people than ever before will have a chance at a better life. They will just exist. This will be Obama’s legacy, and the legacy of those who support this poorly thought out method of extracting as much money as possible out of the hardworking law abiding taxpaying citizens of our great nation.
Not that Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Dodd, Frank and most of the Democratic party care. Is this what you want Ms. Tucker? Think it through before responding. Good Night.
Ayn Rand Was Right
September 23rd, 2009
12:49 am
I do not expect most of you to understand these words, however they should be the only law…personal responsiblity. Not wanting the government to distribute my charitable donations does not make me heartless or render me without compassion. I am capable of taking care of my own person, family and even some in my community. My government is not as capable, period.
MikeB
September 23rd, 2009
12:54 am
Missed completing a though in the above post…. Sorry. here it is……….
If she really beleives what she has written here, and wants us all to have this unreasonable level of compassion, then I submitt that it will be harder for Americans to make these donations to charities in the future, if the govt. keeps trying to say from every angle possible “We know whats best for you…..
TMA
September 23rd, 2009
1:01 am
@ Public Option’s A Go – There is no way (with your attitude and language skills) that you are a physician. More than likely you’re one of those ACORN supporter types who has no problem giving advice to people wanting to set up child brothels in this country. Reading your comments was pretty much a dead give-away. You don’t like to hear the an honest conservative opinion so you basically resort to name calling like you did with “Tall”, ie: Moron, Idiot and maggot.
You’re a sad troll without a life. You know how I know for sure you’re not a physician? No doctor I know of could possibly have the time to post as much as you. You managed to find the time to post 12 times. I hope I don’t wind up in your waiting room (if, of course, you are an MD, which you’re not).
@ Janet – Cram it, Janet.
TMA
September 23rd, 2009
1:06 am
Also – I have no compassion at all for those who seek to enter this country illegally for their own personal gain. I think enough tax payer dollars have been spent on their care and education. I also oppose children of illegals being allowed an education in this country. I am willing to bet that if we weeded out the unwanted people in this country, there would be a lot less kids sitting in trailers at school.
Public Option Doing Swell
September 23rd, 2009
1:43 am
@ “TMA”
You don’t have a clue what a doctor is capable of doing. You couldn’t get into the door of a med school.
What you have compassion for is of no consequence, because you’re making no decisions of consequence. We don’t consult you when we decide who to provide care for, and you don’t have the skills to provide care.
It takes me seconds to post and go back to what I want to do. I think a lot faster than most of these Repubozotard idiots here.
Perhaps you want to take up a medical topic and let me make a fool of you at wharp speed. They never do because they know what will happen–but I’d be delighted to make you look stupid. I don’t care whether its law or med. Take your pick. You haven’t posted one specific informed comment on an issue yet. You’re pissed off because I outclass you so you want to attack the messenger instead of argue the message. Typical.
You’re consulting your delusions trying to determine who is what on a comment section.
Tall is all 3 of those, and my language skills far exceed yours. And it was decided I was a physician years ago–you had no part in it.
You’re welcome to allow me to demonstrate your delusions. I can clean your clock in any medical arena at wharp speed. You won’t take me up on it because like all conservatives, you’re only comfortable slining your own fecal material.
I have an infinitely greater grasp of congress, the law, and medicine than you’ve ever had in your life, and considerably better education. You write like Katy Abram talks.
Faelon
September 23rd, 2009
2:15 am
I don’t think anyone wants illegal aliens dying in our streets from lack of health care. But by the same token why in gods earth would we be expected to unwillingly subsidize the social services or lack thereof of our neighboring countries. Be they democracy, dictatorship or simply overwelminly corrupt.
Mexico is NOT a developing nation. They are a fully industrialized nation with a huge amount of natural resources at their disposal. Why exactly are my tax dollars going to subsidize and support their citizens in ways that they clearly do not do themselves?
And here’s a dirty little secret about those wonderous socialized healthcare systems in Canada and Europe that you so praise and seek for us to emulate. IF YOU ARE NOT A CITIZEN (OR AT THE LEAST A LEGAL RESIDENT) OF THE COUNTRY PROVIDING THE SOCIALIZED HEALTH CARE YOU OR YOUR COUNTRY OF ORIGIN GET THE BILL FOR IT! A US Citizen does NOT get free health care in Canada. A US Citizen does NOT get free health care in England. Somebody in or from the US pays those bills. This is a core element of those systems.
eolufemi
September 23rd, 2009
3:28 am
Increase state income taxes for non-citizens. Have a special sales and property tax for all non-citizens.
Earmark revenue for off-setting the cost of uninsured non-citizens using health care system.
JMoore
September 23rd, 2009
3:30 am
Where did our compassion go? It went out when affirmative action, racial quotas, set asides, etc. came in! Real taxpayers are sick of people who pay no taxes run the country. Speaking of that, when will this affirmation action editor be shown the gate? Soon I hope. You are truly the most sickening person I know (Bookman is a close second).
Charles Jackson
September 23rd, 2009
3:34 am
TO: Public Option Doing Swell What an arrogant turd you are!
Charles Jackson
September 23rd, 2009
3:37 am
TO: Public Option Doing Swell What an arrogant twit you are!
Charles Jackson
September 23rd, 2009
3:39 am
TO: Public Option Doing Swell Now go back to your room.
Repuzbotard
September 23rd, 2009
4:09 am
Cynthia ROCKS! I love hot latinas!
Repuzbotard
September 23rd, 2009
4:12 am
I mean, latina ILK!
Take that you stupid republicans!
Joel Edge
September 23rd, 2009
5:47 am
How many times have we heard this? How can we not be compassionate? Americans give largely to charity. We have given in the form of money and benefits since post-WW2. And it’s never enough. There will always be people in need of care in this country. We can’t support the poor of the world. And the constant guilt trip is getting old.
Robert
September 23rd, 2009
6:07 am
If we open the floodgates then we will be swamped with illegal aliens from all over the world wanting to stream into the U.S. and jump on the gravy train. Making sure that only Americans get health care is one incentive to get the illegal aliens (and that is the correct legal term to describe them) to go home again. Giving them medical care, at our expense, is the dumbest thing we could do. WE CANNOT AFFORD IT EITHER!
Kendall
September 23rd, 2009
7:18 am
Cynthia-
Immigrants, illegal or not, cannot be turned away from not for
profit hospitals. That is illegal.
What do you mean, no sympathy? What about sympathy
from the Mexican Government? Why don’t they see that
their own people are cared for? Because the government is so
corrupt on a national and local scale, is why.
If we are so uncompassionate, why is it that we have
billions of dollars of contributions that are given on a
massive scale by both public and private sectors?
You need to get a grip on reality, mam. You start
a compassion program, but don’t ask the government
to hand out more of what middle class, hard working,
honest, tax working citizens are already contributing
to-both by taxation and compassionate giving.
Jimmy62
September 23rd, 2009
7:20 am
I have plenty of compassion for sick illegal immigrants. But they made the decision to immigrate illegally, and they are the ones that can’t afford helth care. I can afford my own. What I can’t afford, nor can the country, is illlegal immigrants’ health care. I know you think money grows on trees, but it doesn’t, and the taxpayers are tapped out for the next 50 years. Let’s fix our system for our citizens, then worry about everyone else. The GOP has suggested some great free market solutions, maybe you should read a few instead of ignorantly calling them the party of no.
Oh yeah, “Public Option Doing Swell…” There’s nothing special at all about your language capability from your comments. Don’t flatter yourself, it makes you look arrogant and stupid.
Betty
September 23rd, 2009
7:26 am
Enter your comments here
Betty
September 23rd, 2009
7:30 am
Enter your comments here The illegal immigrants who are now sick should be returned to their home country for medical care.We can not leave these people to die because they can not afford medical attention nor should the taxpayers pay for their care. Perhaps when the word gets out that if you become ill here you are on your own, people will not enter the country illegally
Jimmy Pritchard
September 23rd, 2009
7:39 am
Typical liberal: “compassionate” to the point of bankruptcy with other people’s money. Americans have no responsbility to provide free healthcare to half of Mexico, and not amount of Leftist hand-wringing changes that. Ask any ER doc or radiologist in Atlanta–they treat illegal alien patients every day who come here specifically because they know they won’t have to pay for their health care. It’s not about compassion, it’s about freeloading and responsibility.
Cynthia, if you want to provide services for foreign deadbeats, become a missionary. Please.
Barky Obummer
September 23rd, 2009
7:46 am
Looks like compassion went out with all this democrackkk RACISM! Who knew the ‘crackkks were still so oppressive on their minority patriots?
interested observer
September 23rd, 2009
7:52 am
Enter your comments here
It appears that the comments here confirm Ms. Tucker’s viewpoint. Too bad so many Christians ignore Christ’s admonition to “love your neighbor” in preference for the hard-line Old Testament view. There are still plenty of Pharisees among us.
ThePlainTruth
September 23rd, 2009
7:56 am
Send them to Canada. They will die before they even see a doctor.
We cannot support the whole world. If you come here illegally, you are taking a chance. Nobody made these people come here.
Ragnar Danneskjöld
September 23rd, 2009
8:07 am
Leftists equate “support for government taxes” with “compassion.” Conservatives define “compassion” as an act of volition, not one at the point of a gun.
True compassion favors allowing free flow of humans without regard to boundaries, to allow the market to determine whether there is a place for others, but without subsidy. The advocates of big government think they know, and can cast into the concrete of statute, how many immigrants should be allowed, and dictate the extent of the welfare programs that taxpayers should subsidize in order to sustain the findings of the overlords.
MikeB
September 23rd, 2009
8:07 am
How about the government and people like you Ms. Tucker having sympathy for the small % of people that are law abiding taxpayers out of the nearly 345 million people who live in the U.S.
These people carry the load that illegals burden our society with. The industries that would collapse if illegal labor was to be shut out of this country need to look at how other countries handle this problem, and use their lobby in Washington D.C. not for hinderance, but to become an idea factory of how to handle their responsibility.
So often the ones who really deserve the compassion, are to busy working to pay taxes, so that polititians can use their tax dollars for everybody else. Misguided, idealistic, pandering Opinion writers such as Ms. Tucker plead for us to understand this, as this is the way it should be……
Bull…….
The American dream is not, me working hard to pay more taxes so that a politician has enough money to fund his beltway lifestyle and all of his pet programs. Lets get back to reality Ms. Tucker. Washington D.C. is starting to effect you the way it has Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Nacy Pelosi, Harry Reid , and Barrack Obama.
Rules are not different for folks inside the beltway.
clyde
September 23rd, 2009
8:17 am
We need a government agency where Americans can apply to become illegal aliens.I think I would be better off.
my observation
September 23rd, 2009
8:19 am
My Mother had a severe stroke about two months ago. She has had the best of care. Now it seems that since she is not responding to the rehabilitation Medicare will no longer continue to pay. Seems reasonable. However, now my parents will have to come out of pocket for continued care. This will no doubt take every dime they saved for their retirement. Only when they become indigent will Medicaid kick in. That’s what needs to be fixed. These so called illegal immigrants receive all this care and have not contributed to the coffer. We need to take care of our own. Americans would not receive the same care in Mexico.
Proud American
September 23rd, 2009
8:22 am
Let me try to break this down in terms even someone as stupid as Tucker might understand. First lets take the word ELLEGAL ; defined as something against the law, then we have ALIEN ; someone or somethingsthat does not belong, hence we have people who have broken the law in order to be somewhere they should not be. I think thats fairly simple, anyone should be intelligent enough to understand.
In my line of work the vast majority of these ELLEGAL ALIENS ( DO NOT PAY TAXES AND THEY LIVE IN ENVIROMENTS THAT BREAK ADDITIONAL LAWS AS WELL AS HEALTH CODES THAT EFFECTS CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY, AND THEN THEY HOARDE THERE MONEY AND SEND IT TO FAMILY MEMBERS BACK IN MEXICO OR ELSE WHERE AND YOU TUCKER WANT US TO GIVE THEM MORE.
YOU LIE !!!
Peter
September 23rd, 2009
8:24 am
Clyde right on……I think American’s need help first, and frankly that is NOT happening !
Compassion happens when leadership cares about people, not WAR for Money and Oil !
Gordon
September 23rd, 2009
8:36 am
Why should we only have compassion for those who actually came to this country illegally? We should take care of people who live in other countries who are sick as well. We are the United States, the most powerful nation on earth. We have a limitless supply of money. Our resources will never run out. I know history has many examples of once powerful nations who lost their way of life because they believed that, but it could never happen here. Our way of life can never be taken from us, no matter how self indulgent we are. We are the United States, and we can do what we want no matter the cost!!
Proud American
September 23rd, 2009
8:41 am
Let me try to break this down in terms even someone as stupid as Tucker might understand. First lets take the word ELLEGAL ; defined as something against the law, then we have ALIEN ; someone or somethingsthat does not belong, hence we have people who have broken the law in order to be somewhere they should not be. I think thats fairly simple, anyone should be intelligent enough to understand.
In my line of work the vast majority of these ELLEGAL ALIENS ( DO NOT PAY TAXES AND THEY LIVE IN ENVIROMENTS THAT BREAK ADDITIONAL LAWS AS WELL AS HEALTH CODES THAT EFFECTS CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY, AND THEN THEY HOARDE THERE MONEY AND SEND IT TO FAMILY MEMBERS BACK IN MEXICO OR ELSE WHERE AND YOU TUCKER WANT US TO GIVE THEM MORE.
Also crime is rampant in the neiborhoods they have invaded, law enforcement can not prosecute them because many give false IdS.
I ask you Tucker how much more do they deserve ?
HotPockets
September 23rd, 2009
8:42 am
I would just as soon see thier bodies stacking up outside of emergency rooms. It would be a signal to illegals that they need to get the f out of here. If Barry O gets his way with amnesty, we are going to see an unprecedented reaction. Forget tea parties.
Gordon
September 23rd, 2009
8:45 am
Interested Observer @7:52,
There is NOTHING in the bible that supports Tucker’s view on this issue. Loving Thy Neighbor means YOU and ME, not the government forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another.
JF McNamara
September 23rd, 2009
8:47 am
jconservative wrote
“Actually there is a real simple solution to the problem. The Christian community.”
I thought America as a whole was a Christian community. While I’m not religious, it’s the bull that gets thrown out there especially by the least sympathetic yet most pious groups, Republicans. Let’s just be honest with ourselves. Everyone is out for their own self interest and people use religion as a way to get others to agree with them or do what they want.
If you feel like immigrants will take your place in society, you want them gone right now or to receive no help at all. That’s the core of the argument, and you aren’t going to get sympathy from people afraid of losing what they have (even if its misguided).
The Snark
September 23rd, 2009
8:48 am
Most of the preceding 81 comments may be summarized thusly:
“Thanks for building my house, maintaining my lawn, cleaning my hotel rooms, sweating in the back of the restaurant, chopping up chickens in Gainesville and making carpet in Dalton. I really appreciate you keeping prices down so I can continue to enjoy my lifestyle. Now go home or die or both. I don’t give a ****.”
Did I miss anything?
HotPockets
September 23rd, 2009
8:50 am
Yeah, Snark you did miss something. How about the rule of Law?
dgroy
September 23rd, 2009
8:51 am
Folks, we are not the richest country in the world…..if we always spend more than we bring in and have to print more paper to finance the “Great Society” programs of JFK and LBJ and lets don’t forget little Jimmy Carter, what we’re doing is digging ourselves a hole we will never be able to escape from, i. e., “We’re Bankrupt”. The one and only reason the Bl-, oh, White House is pushing the Health Care Reform so hard is for political purposes. Our elected officials in Washington, D.C, care as much about you as they do “giving up their generous health care and pension plans”. They think if they put a plan out there that will satisfy blacks, hispanics, muslims and illegals who manage to vote, they will be able to achieve their goal of being reelected for another term and keeping the Dumbocrats in power. From what little I’ve heard, this plan will affect every person in America by taking more from their paychecks each week because the costs have to be paid by someone……..and it’s not gonna be paid by those holding the power to shove this plan down our throats.
Cynthia Tucker, if you really want to help America instead of sitting at your comfy desk writing these stupid columns that do nothing more than infuriate people more, get out in your neighborhoods and actually talk with the people that will be affected by the “Plan”, let them have their say and then come back and write a column of your findings.
BTW, compassion has nothing to do with it. These people are in this country “Illegally”. They have no right to overburden our infrastructure, health care, etc. They have a home country……..they should all be herded up and sent there.. Cynthia, I’m beginning to think you’re only a PAWN to further the left’s agenda. Have you no pride?
The Snark
September 23rd, 2009
8:53 am
Oh, and PROUD AMERICAN:
The word illegal is not spelled “ellegal,” and the word neighborhood is not spelled “neiborhood.” Even “someone as stupid as Tucker” knows that.
HotPockets
September 23rd, 2009
8:54 am
Wow, great point Snark. That adds a tremendous amount to the discussion.
The Snark
September 23rd, 2009
8:55 am
HOTPOCKETS: Yes, what about the Rule of Law? What part of the Rule of Law says that if you break the immigration laws then you deserve to die of kidney poisoning?
Tall
September 23rd, 2009
8:57 am
Good Morning:
That greeting also extends to Public Option and Janet. Janet: you need to control your emotions when you read a post. I write on an eighth grade reading level for a reason.
One last comment on insurance company margins. If you don’t believe me, go to your local library. If you live in Fulton county, they have access to Value Line stock reports and the Standard and Poors company reports. Draw your own conclusions from the data. If you want more competition amongst insurers, allow them to compete across state lines and drop the mandates. We don’t need a governement “insurance exchange.”
I don’t have time to get into a long debate with Janet about my observations. I will add this: My wife is a pediatric nurse in the CHOA system. No one is ever denied treatment because they cannot pay. Just last week she was called in to assist with a 9 year old Mexican boy who shoved a battery up his nose on a dare. And….no, they didn’t have insurance.
Public option: I stand by my comment. You are not a physician.
Have a nice day everyone!!! The sun is out.
HotPockets
September 23rd, 2009
8:57 am
Snark, they don’t die. That’s the point. Get it?
All the way
September 23rd, 2009
9:07 am
Tucker is picking up a familiar refrain from the liberals in Washington. If you don’t support our policies, there is something wrong with you. Tucker attacks motives but yells foul when her side’s motives are attacked. Soon we will get a Tucker column about the lack of civility in those who attack healthcare. Do you remember any “lack of civility” columns from Tucker during the Bush years?
We don’t like the government healthcare proposals. We are tired of being called racist, selfish, dumb, bought-and-paid-for or backwards by arrogant twits like Tucker whose rhetorical firepower far outweighs her rather limited intellectual capacity. Simply put, Tucker is a shill who will say or do anything to advance her cause.
andreabeth
September 23rd, 2009
9:14 am
Enter your comments here
“HOTPOCKETS: Yes, what about the Rule of Law? What part of the Rule of Law says that if you break the immigration laws then you deserve to die of kidney poisoning?”
What nonsense! They need to be returned to their home countries for further care. Mexico has dialysis units. Mexican surgeons perform kidney transplants, too. I suspect most of the other ‘big sender’ countries do also. If their medical facilities are in need of expansion or improval, that is something their citizens of those countries need to take up with their governments.
Dr. R
September 23rd, 2009
9:25 am
Splitting the difference between extremes here is hard. It’s complicated. It’s hard to explain to those on the left why using more of our hard-earned treasure to support those who have made poor choices is not linked to compassion but to fairness and the law. Put it this way: If I put a dollar in the cup of a homeless fellow and he uses it to buy booze and continue to underachiever, at what point is my dollar just enabling poor behavior? And this angle: Laws are devised to create a orderly society, despite what the whims of emotion might lead us to. Immigration laws were created to keep nonresidents from other countries from overwhelming our social services and pushing out those who are here legally. To ignore them over “compassion” is to minimize the need for the rule of law and make up policy as we go along based on how we “feel” at a given time. No society that does so can long survive.
The difference comes in how we view the world. Liberals see the jobs, the money we earn, the success some of us have achieved as being the result of happenstance, that we were must born lucky. Those who do not have such are the “less fortunate.” They discount the whole concept of individual achievement because it undermines the egalitarian notion that we aren’t all just born equal in the eyes of the Lord but that we also should have equal outcomes in our life paths. That is contrary to natural law. God made some of us smarter and more effective and others of us less able to make choices. Does that mean we ignore them and fail to help? No, it doesn’t, and we don’t. We have any number of systems in place to help those in need. It doesn’t lift them to a life of luxury but it provides a safety net for the basic needs. But doing so also doesn’t mean that we should follow the failed Soviet model and have EVERYONE live in the same level of middling poverty to achieve those same egalitarian goals.
I will help my brother when and where I can. But if my brother won’t help himself, there is only so much I can do. I have to feed my own family before I can feed someone else’s. I’m sorry but that’s the way it works in the real world.
The Dogfighter Returns
September 23rd, 2009
9:27 am
I hope you folks who got flooded by mother nature and are opposed to government assistance (socialism some of you call it) really adhere to your principles and refuse all government assistance and handle this mess on your own.
After all who needs a government. You smarty pants can do everything on your own, well here is your chance. See how cooperative your insurance companies are when they tell you, you never purchased flood insurance, can’t help you.
Good Luck. FEMA ain’t coming to your aid. you are on your own big fella.
HotPockets
September 23rd, 2009
9:31 am
@Dogfigher: Right. And national defense is just big government run amok.
Gordon
September 23rd, 2009
9:36 am
Dogfighter @9:27,
Do you think it is wrong for an insurance company to be uncooperative with someone who submits a claim for flood damage when they don’t have a flood insurance policy?
Most people believe government does have a role when there is a natural disaster, but that it is limited to helping people get through the initial circumstances. It is not to replace everything that was lost because the person chose not to purchase insurance.
Facts Please
September 23rd, 2009
9:42 am
Where did the compassion go and why? Maybe it left because more and more of it is getting shoved down our throughts with more and more people freely standing in line to receive this compassion. Its not compassion that most of us hard working citizens want to give out by force. You see when its you getting up every morning, fighting traffic, working 50-60 hours per week, not seeing your kids grow up because your paying bills working all the time, its enough already to see your hard earned income taken to give to people who just dont have the same values.
Fraud is so thick in the medical, welfare and tax sytems its not funny. The working middle class pay so much now in taxes that they can no longer sustain a good life and thats corruption at its finest. Now our tax money is being funded to other countries as well curtesty of Mr Obama, who still has not proven hes even a united states citizen. Im sorry but spending over 2 million dollars to defens a 10 dollar birth certificate tells me everything I need to know about that subject and the house and senate and the supreme court are not doing what they swore to do which is to defend the consitution of the United States.
Now illegals, well thats another story. They come here by the millions, life off our system, collect every intitlement they can, take our jobs, fill our schools costing millions each year, put hospitals in the red, some of which have had to close down, and they dont pay a single penny in taxes for what we are taxed to death for. Now you start a column where is the compasion. Well it went out the window with all the corruption to the american taxpayer. Thats where it went.
Fairtax now, illegals deported, and keep your damn hands off our health insurance. You want benefits, go get a job and earn them!