The return of the vast rightwing conspiracy
Remember the vast rightwing conspiracy? It’s ba-a-a-ck, turning its considerable resources to ruining health care reform and wrecking legislation aimed at curbing climate change.
Despite the insistence of Republican leaders that the tea-party crowd and the town-hall protestors are merely concerned individuals who have spontaneously made the decision to shout and yell threats at public meetings, the protests are, in fact, prodded by networks of conservative activists. Richard Mellon Scaife, a Pittsburg billionaire who is the financial lifeblood of ultra-conservative activism, is a contributor, according to The Washington Post.
That’s not to deny the individual anger or anxiety on display on cable TV. Hardcore conservatives are quite unhappy, some over proposals for health care reform, many others over a wider range of policies and positions they associate with the Obama administration. If conservative voters weren’t already upset by cultural and political changes, they wouldn’t turn out, no matter how much they were urged on by networks of activists.
But urged they are, by old voices with the same old names, like Rush Limbaugh, or familiar conservatives, like former GOP congressman Dick Armey, now associated with a lesser-known outfit called Freedom Works, a conservative Washington-based advocacy group . Freedom Works has been heavily involved in turning out critics at town-hall meetings on health care reform; it’s Web site, urging raucous protests, features a quote from Armey; “If you are going to go ugly, go ugly early,” according to the Post.
In a 1998 TV interview, then-First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton famously blamed a “vast rightwing conspiracy” for the problems she and her husband faced, especially after his dalliance with Monica Lewinsky.
The controversies that engulfed the First Couple weren’t exclusively the work of political enemies, of course; the Clintons provided some of the raw material. But it’s also true that wealthy rightwingers like Scaife tried their best to spoil Bill Clinton’s presidency.
Now they’re trying to spoil Obama’s. GOP Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) gave away his goal when he declared, last month, “If we are to stop Obama on (health care reform), it would be his Waterloo. It will break him.” Many of his fellow travelers have been more discreet, concealing their deep-seated ideological enmity underneath rhetoric about fiscal responsibility (a concern they rarely showed during the Bush years) or fear of “socialism.”
But ideologues like DeMint and Newt Gingrich have made it pretty clear that they’re not interested in finding the best approach on public policy or in helping Americans cope with skyrocketing health care costs. They just want to win political battles.
Some of the conservatives arrayed against Obama represent corporate interests. Armey’s FreedomWorks, for example, is funded by companies such as Philip Morris, which has fought government regulations on smoking for years now.
A conservative advocacy group called Americans for Prosperity, long known for denying the scientific findings on climate change, has started an offshoot called Patients First to fight health care reform. The Post reports that it receives funding from the Koch Foundation, affliated with a huge Kansas-based oil-and-gas conglomerate called Koch Industries. (Koch owns Georgia Pacific.) The Koch Foundation undoubtedly believes that slowing Obama down on health care reform will help to defeat his energy bill, which aims to curb carbon emissions and would affect Koch’s businesses.
There is nothing unusual about either the efforts of corporatists to protect their interests or the enmity toward government from ultra-conservatives. But there does seem to be something unusual about the raging paranoia and sheer lunacy from some of the protestors, especially those who have found it necessary to carry guns to rallies. If they are not threatening violent opposition, why bring guns?
Their paranoia is clear from their eagerness to believe the loopiest theories about the Obama administration, including the patently false notion that health reform legislation includes “death panels” to decide whether to euthanize the elderly and handicapped. And the Obama protesters are too busy denouncing non-existent tax increases to be persuaded that Obama signed the largest two-year tax cut in U.S. history; it was included in the stimulus bill. They wouldn’t believe that if Limbaugh himself told them. (Don’t worry. He won’t.)
So far, the antics at rallies and town hall meetings have merely produced a little ugliness, like the swastika painted on a sign outside the office of U.S. Rep. David Scott (D-Ga.) But it wouldn’t take much for one of these angry gunslingers to do some real damage at a public gathering.
Will the vast rightwing conspiracy own up to its handiwork then?
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187 comments Add your comment
DeborahinAthens
August 19th, 2009
7:13 am
As a former Republican that gave up on the party eight years ago, I am disheartened to see how easily the Democrats are caving. I voted for Obama because I wanted radical healthcare reform with a SINGLE PAYER OPTION. I have an excellent job with good insurance, but if and when I retire, we will not be able to get insurance because my husband has a pre-existing condition. Everyone I know that has lived in Great Britain, France or Cananda have loved their health care system. The last numbers I saw show that Great Britain ranks 18th in healthcare among industrialized nations. The US is 37th. Our representatives are buckling under the screams and rants of idiots that don’t know, and don’t want to know the facts. By the way, the other major reasons I voted for Obama is that I thought he would close Guantanamo and end the war. It is insane that the United State sanctions holding anyone as a prisoner without charging them with a crime and having a trial to decide guilt or innocence. I also want the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan over and done with. They are rat holes down which we are pouring billions that will not serve our interests. That money can be used to fund our deficit. The Dems have caved on these promises also. I am sick that I can no longer trust any representative to do what they promised. I am very disappointed in President Obama. I thought he would be different.
norman ravitch
August 19th, 2009
7:33 am
The vast rightwing conspiracy which first showed its head during the Clinton years actually began during the New Deal. It reveals itself when the material interests of a certain ruling group is threatened; then they embark on a scheme to frighten the yahoos in our society, people whose intelligence never rises above vitriol. H.L. Mencken had their number. Now they have re-emerged to challenge O’Bama. The president does threaten their interests: he is a black man who, against all tradition and common sense, was elected president of this white nation. He must be repudiated; the rightwingers are doing a good job of repudiating him, as is O’Bama himself. Had the economy not tanked and had the GOP not picked senile John McCain to run for president with an even more senile Sarah Palin, O’Bama would still be a Senator.
mike
August 19th, 2009
7:34 am
Typical Tucker hypocrisy.
Just to be clear: liberals protesting policies they don’t approve of is admirable, conservatives doing the exact same thing is a “right-wing conspiracy”.
It is amusing that Tucker is such a hypocrite that she can talk about “conspiracies”, yet label those who dare to disagree with her intrinsically correct views as “paranoid”. What a hypocrite.
mike
August 19th, 2009
7:36 am
norman ravitch –
I don’t know which is more embarrassing, your baseless claims of racism or your inability to spell the name of the President of the United States.
M Sharp
August 19th, 2009
7:38 am
It’s not republicans who are PAYING people to show up and protest. It’s not republicans PAYING to have people bused in and providing them with professionally painted signs. NO, that’s the CONSIPIRACY of SEIU and AARP and other LIBERAL groups. Since when do a few radio hosts and commentators urging people to express their views to their elected officials constitute a “right-wing” conspiracy. There was no conspiracy then and there’s certainly not one now. Why is it that when the agenda of the left gets questioned, the left attack the questioners? There is no vitriol like that of you people who support this president and this socialist agenda and that is proved by the personal attacks you make to defend yourself. You have shown yourselves for the hypocrites you are.
Turd Ferguson
August 19th, 2009
7:41 am
Yet again Tucker is incorrect and presents baseless arguments.
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator :-) You Whine :-(
August 19th, 2009
7:42 am
I’m baaaaaccckkk.
A simple minded column for simple minded people, typical Queen Pinko.
More citizens identify themselves as political conservatives than as political liberals in every state in the U.S., according to results of a Gallup Poll announced yesterday.
There’s your conspiracy, right there^^.
If I’m wrong and Tuck is right, perhaps somebody can explain why Obozo kampaigned as a Conservative?
Tax cuts?
More troops in Afghanistan?
These are policy planks of the democrat party?
And why, pray tell, did Sotomayor parrot Clarence Thomas at here Senate Confirmation hearing?
Is she a vast white winger?
Munch on your comfort food, dullards, it’s all ya got.
Turd Ferguson
August 19th, 2009
7:43 am
Agreed Sharp…was watching local news and they actually had footage of ACORN groupies being bussed in to some town hall meeting.
Tucker and her ilk are shameless and arrogant.
Steven Adams
August 19th, 2009
7:47 am
You misspelled Pittsburgh.
mike
August 19th, 2009
7:52 am
You ever notice that none of the health care reform’s supporters never make a case for their policy? Instead they just tell us that they hate conservatives. We knew that you felt that way already folks. How about making the case for the policy that you support instead of just trying to demonize its opponents?
What They Are Saying: 08.19.09 | AnnotatedOpinions.com
August 19th, 2009
8:10 am
[...] The return of the vast rightwing conspiracy [Atlanta Journal-Constitution] [...]
Uncle Jake
August 19th, 2009
8:19 am
Perhaps a few of us have been around long enough to know that when the govt gets involved with most any program, said program turns to shiat.
We support the free enterprise system as its served us seniors well for many years and now that we reach our twilight years the govt wants to screw us over? I dont think so Mister. We built this Country and we are not about to sit around and allow the likes of obama, pelosi, reid, frank ruin it for us and the rest of you.
Yes…we may not know much but we KNOW the govt screws up most anything it touches. All these giveaway and freebies. Nothing is free and thats my hard earned money, as well as yours, going to support a group of freeloaders.
With regard to tucker…she has been out of touch for years.
Davo
August 19th, 2009
8:32 am
“But it wouldn’t take much for one of these angry gunslingers to do some real damage at a public gathering.”
Which is secretly what you want, isn’t it Tucker? A little mayham from a civil war reenactor would really seal the deal on gun control, health control, mind control etc. That’s why you would rather sling mud and demonize than ’seek bi-partisanship’ (remember that column? Who wrote that?) I guess if you goad the public long enough you will get what you ask for.
Pennsylvanian
August 19th, 2009
8:38 am
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator
You Whine 
@ 7:42
norman ravitch reports the president is Irish. That is O’bozo to you.
Pennsylvanian
August 19th, 2009
8:42 am
Cynthia –
Please remind us about how President O’bama (thank you, norman) won the election, and has a mandate for change. How he is empowered to fix the climate, and health care. And close Gitmo this year. And no new taxes on the middle class. Please? I need a laugh.
cliff zeider
August 19th, 2009
8:54 am
Hey Cynthia, Did you catch your pal, the lovely Shelia Jackson Lee making a damn fool out of her self. She was at a town hall meeting and answering the phone during questions. cz
Joey
August 19th, 2009
8:55 am
The goal of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy is to protect the People of the US and our US Constitution from the actions of the Less Vast Left Wing Conspiracy has never stopped.
It never will.
lovelyliz
August 19th, 2009
9:00 am
I told you so! I told you so! I knew I smelled the stench of Richard Mellon Scaife. I guess his tawdry second divorce went better than was originally thought (adultery, assault, no prenup) if he still has his family $$$ to throw around his pet causes.
lovelyliz
August 19th, 2009
9:01 am
Joey
Where were you guys from 2000-2008??????????????????
mike
August 19th, 2009
9:02 am
lovelyliz –
Hmm. Another liberal judging the morality of others. Such hypocrisy.
Goldie
August 19th, 2009
9:08 am
The goal of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy is to rule America by whatever means necessary — totalitarianism or theocracy — in order enable the Big Corporations to make our laws and to keep Americans trembling with fear…
Jeff
August 19th, 2009
9:12 am
Of course it’s up to the people of the Massachussets 4th congressional district, but after seeing Barney Frank in action last night at a Dartmouth townhall meeting, if I were one of his constituents – regardless of party affiliation – I certainly wouldn’t vote to return him to office. He epitomizes congressional arrogance. It’s time for him & those of his political ilk to go.
Cindy
August 19th, 2009
9:20 am
Mike’s room temperature IQ and associated Rush Limbaugh talking points are pretty typical are they not?
Jay "Numbnuts" Bookwoman
August 19th, 2009
9:21 am
Blame it on the “machine” Tucker. In a nut shell folks, Sinthia is telling us that Americans aren’t smart enough to know what’s right and it’s all the talk show hosts fault for spreading lies. Get with the program SISTA!
Cindy
August 19th, 2009
9:22 am
What is a “admirable conservative” Mike? I’ve never seen one of those. Unless being a hateful, bigoted, scared shi%less, angry at the world cretin is what you are talking about.
Your morning jolt: Republicans undecided on whether co-ops are evil | Political Insider
August 19th, 2009
9:24 am
[...] Cynthia Tucker on the return of the vast rightwing conspiracy. [...]
Jay "Numbnuts" Bookwoman
August 19th, 2009
9:25 am
ilk – I really hate that word. It’s completely overused in these political discussions.
Jay "Numbnuts" Bookwoman
August 19th, 2009
9:28 am
Look in the mirror “Cindy” Lou Whoo.
Bob
August 19th, 2009
9:29 am
Pass health care reform with a public option then pass immigration reform, and vast right wingnut crowd is dead in the water forever. They understand this and therefore their behavior. I am waiting for one of them to draw his gun at one of these meetings. You know it’s coming, and when the Secret Service blows him away these fools will use that as a rallying cry. No more ignorant group has ever been collectively assembled as these right wing ignoramuses. But guess what? They live by the sword and they will die by it. Good riddance to right wing rubbish.
norman ravitch
August 19th, 2009
9:29 am
I always try to refer to our president as O’Bama because if I can pretend he is Irish I can curb my dismay at who he really is.
Cindy
August 19th, 2009
9:35 am
Jay “Numbnuts” Bookwoman
August 19th, 2009
9:28 am
Look in the mirror “Cindy” Lou Whoo
If I do that I will see you looking back at me and the thought of that is way too horrible to contemplate.
Sam S.
August 19th, 2009
9:37 am
lovelyliz
August 19th, 2009
9:01 am
Joey
Where were you guys from 2000-2008??????????????????
They obviously spent them with their heads up their azzez lovelyliz.
Jay "Numbnuts" Bookwoman
August 19th, 2009
9:41 am
Hey – I resemble that remark!!!
Sam S.
August 19th, 2009
9:44 am
Where were you morons when Bush did the medicare prescription bill?
Jay "Numbnuts" Bookwoman
August 19th, 2009
9:58 am
Where were you Sam S?
Warren Bonesteel
August 19th, 2009
10:07 am
Hmm. Cynthia’s premises are that anything to the political right of Pelosi, Reid and Obama is the result of a “conspiracy,” that health care “reform” is good and that the science behind AGW (”climate change”) is settled. (Hint: Their ‘puter models can’t even ‘predict’ well-known historical weather patterns and cycles, let alone predict future events and cycles. GIGO. Hint #2: If the theory doesn’t match reality and isn’t predictive, the theory’s no good. Hint *3: The IPCC and AlGore overlooked that big yellow thingy in the sky, basically implying that the sun has no effect upon Earth’s climate. So, AlGore got a Nobel Peace prize for ignoring the sun…)
The rest of the logical fallacies in her article are derived from her original false premises. (False premises are a wee bit divorced from factual evidence and proof and even from reality.)
While using logic like that…How the hell did she get a Pulitzer?
Pat Phelps
August 19th, 2009
10:36 am
Cynthia, your an idiot. When all else fails lets stur the pot once again by claiming racism. People that have legitimate problems with government health care express there views. Do you even know these people? Have you talked to them? On what do you base your comments of racism? Simple because we disagree doesn’t make me a racist. I didn’t vote for Obama because he was black, but because I don’t want to live in a socialist country. I have voted in the past for Dylan Glenn and Herman Cain, two black men, because I agree with their views. Why don’t you have an intelligent conversation about why we don’t like this health care bill instead of resorting to name calling.
Jessica
August 19th, 2009
10:37 am
The thing is, this so-called reform will be harmful to most Americans, including the people who are working so hard to get it passed. We can’t afford it, and we won’t be pleased with it once it’s in place. I hope the “right-wing conspiracy” can derail this socialist nightmare, but I know reform will probably happen. If you want to know how government healthcare will work out, take a look at the countries that already have it.
In a few years, when you have to wait for six hours in a doctor’s office for routine care, remember that this is what you wanted.
When your doctor is more concerned about following government policy than about your needs and getting a prescription filled is as frustrating as waiting in line at the post office or DMV, remember how glad you are to have Washington running the system.
When your sick kid can’t get the treatment you want for him because there is a cheaper option (never mind that you already tried it and it didn’t work), remember to tell the kid how happy you are to have Obamacare.
When your 93-year-old grandma can’t get a pacemaker because some bureaucrat doesn’t think it’s cost-effective to keep her alive for a few more years, remember that YOU helped push this through.
When you have to wait three years to get the knee surgery you need, remember to thank your lawmakers for “fixing” the system. Your senator, by the way, will NOT be waiting three years for surgery — he will be flying to another country to get it done at a clinic that caters to rich Americans.
Robby
August 19th, 2009
10:41 am
The idea that a handful (if that) of loud, gun-toting knuckleheads can shout down Ms. Tucker and the vast left-leaning media empire is downright laughable. So how many “criticizing the critics” columns must we endure before someone as bright and eloquent as Ms. Tucker takes a stab at telling us specifically why they feel that President Obama’s healthcare plan is the answer. And not just because he says it is, please.
Peter
August 19th, 2009
10:42 am
Here we are in the great state of Georgia where EDUCTION, is not a Big Priority !
Read the Blog, it will sum up that Point !
Class of '98
August 19th, 2009
10:52 am
Be honest, Cynthia… how frustrated were you that the guy carrying the machine gun at the townhall meeting was black?
YOU COULDN’T ACCUSE HIM OF RACISM!!!!! Because, after all, that’s the ONLY reason someone would disagree with messiah Obama, right?
Michael(NorthGA)
August 19th, 2009
10:59 am
You folks ever wonder if Cynthia and Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee’s butt’s glow bright red when their ready to mate? Especially, you left-wing pukes, Bob and Cindy!
Pompano
August 19th, 2009
11:02 am
Of course Cynthia Tucker/McKinney can’t form a cohesive explanation as to why the protestors are wrong – just resorts to the same lame Democrap luney-tunes strategy of name calling and faux racism.
It would be nice if the AJC employed a writer intelligent enough to actually comment on National matters instead of the tired old crap we’ve gotten from this woman for years. No wonder they can’t sell newspapers anymore!
Joey
August 19th, 2009
11:06 am
lovely liz;
The Right Wing would not view me as Right Wing, but I observed the VRWC fighting against Republicans, Democrats and sometimes both (and I helped on some issues) about:
Citizenship for Illegal Residents;
Increasing the size of the Government;
Supreme Court Nominations;
Unwise and un-necessary spending;
Selling Sea Ports to Foreign Governments;
Preventing Iran and N. Korea from developing Nuclear weapons; etc.
I suspect you could add a few more examples. Some of them might even be honest examples.
proud old guy
August 19th, 2009
11:19 am
Fascinating commentary by the unabashed liberal.
I find it interesting that it is OK for the dems to leverage Acorn, but it is a conspiracy for ordinary people to ask legitimate questions of their congressman. The problem with Cynthia and her ilk is that they are really afraid of the normal process of governance as defined in that inconvenient document called the constitution. If you think about it, most of the great liberal accomplishments are the result of activity through the courts. Much of the great FDR’s social program was ruled unconsitutional after the court returned to form. Remember, he packed the court to make sure that things would not get stopped. When dems have to deal with the messy process of convincing people that their ideas are good, they resort to exactly what we see here.
Unlike some people who have commented on this blog, there are a whole lot of people who have seen how poorly Obamacare works in places like Canada and England. They don’t want it.
So, they show up in places like town hall meetings with their congress person and they ask questions. They express their opinion.
It’s not a conspiracy, Cynthia dear, it’s a representative democracy and people are telling their representatives what they think.
In fact, if you think about it, Obama has done a great job of uniting the country. Millions of people are united in their opposition to his plan!
ctucker
August 19th, 2009
11:23 am
Pat, Where in the world did I say anything about race or racism in that column?
Chris Salzmann
August 19th, 2009
11:24 am
mike August 19th, 2009 7:52 am SAID: You ever notice that none of the health care reform’s supporters never make a case for their policy? Instead they just tell us that they hate conservatives. We knew that you felt that way already folks. How about making the case for the policy that you support instead of just trying to demonize its opponents?
CHRIS SAYS: Make a case for the policy we support? Like Health Care Reform? Here’s our case: Read the f*cking bill. Also, go to some truly NON-Partisan websites such as http://www.politifact.co or http://www.factcheck.org to filter out the lies being spread by conservative idiots. You know, like those lies about “Death Panels” spread and backed by conservatives, which have no basis in fact.
While you’re at it, name me one corporation tied to health care, insurance or pharma that is in favor or funding groups SUPPORTING reform? I can name you countless of the same corporate interests that are funding the opposition to reform. Which pretty much confirms the fact that most conservatives cannot think for themselves and are mindless tools to corporate special interests. You know, like those folks holding up signs saying “KEEP GOVT. OUT OF MY MEDICARE!”.
Here’s a fact: You folks in the opposition have the likes of Glenn Beck supporting you, we have FACTS. Enough said.
ncgreybr
August 19th, 2009
11:26 am
Pat Phelps said: “Cynthia, your an idiot. When all else fails lets stur the pot once again by claiming racism.”
I guess I missed that part in the column. Please, Pat, tell us where she mentions race in her column today.
Joey
August 19th, 2009
11:30 am
Don’t come here much, but ncgrebr’s 11:26 was interesting.
“…tell us where she mentions race in her column today.”
Today. Very good.
ncgreybr
August 19th, 2009
11:35 am
Sorry, Joey. I thought today’s discussion was about today’s column.
I forgot there are ventors that are like my ex and go back years to briing up things in an arguement.
Chris Salzmann
August 19th, 2009
11:36 am
Pat Phelps August 19th, 2009 10:36 am SAID: People that have legitimate problems with government health care express there views. Do you even know these people? Have you talked to them?
CHRIS SAYS: What legitimate problems? All we progressives hear is talk of “socialism”, which is laughable. So Pat, are you in favor of eliminating Medicare, because that’s a “socialist” government program if there ever was one. Lets not forget the nonsense about “Death Panels”, or rationed care, or that illegals will be provided free health care, etc. Name me a few of those legitimate concerns? PLEASE.
Pat Phelps August 19th, 2009 10:36 am SAID:On what do you base your comments of racism? Simple because we disagree doesn’t make me a racist. I didn’t vote for Obama because he was black, but because I don’t want to live in a socialist country.
CHRIS SAYS: Did you call GW Bush a “socialist” when he introduced the Medicare Prescription Program? No? I didn’t think so? Do you even know what the word “socialist” means??? Look it up and you’ll then understand why each time you conservatives bring it up, we have a good laugh or think you’re retarded.
HERE”S THE DEFINITION: A Socialist state is defined as one where the majority of the means of economic production are in the hands of the State (or in our case, the federal government). In the case of the United States, 99.9% of economic production is in private hands.
BTW, Germany, France, the UK, etc are all countries that are based on market based capitalist economies. They also have some form subsidized health care. You define these countries as socialist???
So, Pat, do you now understand why all us progressives are laughing at you???
ncgreybr
August 19th, 2009
11:37 am
Interesting poll being talked about last night. 14% of Republicans don’t know Medicare is a government program and 10% aren’t sure. That is almost 1/4 of Republicans.
That’s scarey!
Chris Salzmann
August 19th, 2009
11:41 am
ctucker August 19th, 2009 11:23 am SAID: Pat, Where in the world did I say anything about race or racism in that column?
CHRIS SAYS: The only one with the racial issues here is Pat Phelps. Yeah, Pat, PLEASE tell us where Cynthia Tucker say anything about race in her column??? Please enlighten us ………
Peter Mokhiber
August 19th, 2009
11:42 am
I would like to say that, I have attended local meeting (on my own dime). I did so because, I have a simple objective. The country may or may not need reform in our health care. That subject is under current vigorous debate.
I would like to see our representatives re-read our founding documents, Declarartion of Independence & the Constitution. They could then explain simply to us the source of their authority to require us to have a governement agency mandate health care/insurance and the invasion into our individual private lives.
I strongly believe that I can make better, more economical decisions regarding my health care than a disconnected government oversight group. For one, I do not believe the government is an efficient deliverer of services to the general population and they do not have the authority to demand I participate.
Thank you.
Peter
I'm Scared
August 19th, 2009
11:44 am
“Despite the insistence of Republican leaders that the tea-party crowd and the town-hall protestors are merely concerned individuals who have spontaneously made the decision to shout and yell threats at public meetings, the protests are, in fact, prodded by networks of conservative activists. Richard Mellon Scaife, a Pittsburg billionaire who is the financial lifeblood of ultra-conservative activism, is a contributor, according to The Washington Post.”
Would someone explain the difference between George Soros funding the radical left (moveon.org) and Richard Mellon Scaife funding the conservative movement?
ncgreybr
August 19th, 2009
11:46 am
Peter, tell us where in the founding papers the leaders of our country 250 years ago mentioned having the FAA, CDC, the post office, FDA, development of the atomic bomb, regulationg of TV and radio, the interstate road system and the list goes on….
Chris Salzmann
August 19th, 2009
11:50 am
Peter Mokhiber August 19th, 2009 11:42 am SAID: I strongly believe that I can make better, more economical decisions regarding my health care than a disconnected government oversight group. For one, I do not believe the government is an efficient deliverer of services to the general population and they do not have the authority to demand I participate.
CHRIS SAYS: So Peter, you’re against the mandate requiring you to carry an appropriate level of insurance on the car that you drive? So its okay to require you to carry insurance on your car but not on yourself?
BTW, so who ends up paying for your medical care when you choose not to carry any health insurance, or only limited health insurance? WE ALL DO after you declare bankruptcy. BTW, over 50% of all personal bankruptcies in this country are related to health care costs. So, who do you think ends up paying for all these unpaid bills?
ncgreybr
August 19th, 2009
11:59 am
I’m Scared’s classic example of wording: the left is “radical” and the right is “conservative movement”.
Considering the lies and deceit we have heard from the “conservative movement” the more apt term is “wacko, off the wall and over the edge, right wing fringe group.”
As for Peter Mokhiber: where in the healthcare bill does it say you “have to participate”? It has been made very clear (but apparently you choose not to listen) that, if you already have health insurance and are happy with it, you can keep your current plan. You may even be surprised when their price goes down to becoome more competative. As for me, I am a single payer (I think that’s the term), with Blue Cross. I pay ONE-THIRD of my income for health insurance. If they decide to drop me, I’m up the creek. Ask me if I want the public option! Go ahead, ask me! (and millions more!)
Peter: What health care plan do you have? Employer participation??
proud old guy
August 19th, 2009
12:06 pm
Chris – to question whether people have “legitimate problems” with the bill depicts a level of arrogance. There are a lot of people who have legitimate disagreements with the contents of the bill that is being debated in the house. These include:
a) The whole concept of the CER which will determine which treatments are “effective” and tie doctors to those treatments. If the government decides, like they have in the UK, that cardiac catheterizations and cardiac stents do not offer adequate improvement of quality of life, they can refuse to pay for them after a certain age. In the UK that age is 59. That means that people with cardiac disease cannot get effective treatment. I strongly oppose this.
b) We have a current model for the end of life consulting that is operating in the VA today. The guidebook for this consulting was written primarily by an ardent assisted suicide advocate.
c) In certain kinds of situations, there is a marked difference in the effectiveness of different forms of certain drugs. My spouse responds well to a name brand drug for migraines. The generic equivalent provides no relief. If the plan allows a government board to decide which medicine can be dispensed, I have a legitimate disagreement with that.
Finally, Chris, there are a lot of people who have had interactions with government operations who are literally scared of what would happen to health care in this country. Ever tried to deal with the post office? In addition, there are millions of believe who profoundly believe that market solutions ultimately end up being vastly superior at lower cost.
The real problem with Obamacare is not the words that people use. It is that the dems are unwilling to make their case in the marketplace of ideas and convince people as to why it would be better. The life experiences of many create legitimate reservations that they are expressing to representatives who react with arrogance. This breeds the levels of distrust and resistance that we are seeing from plain old thoughtful everyday citizens.
Roy
August 19th, 2009
12:07 pm
Cynthia Tucker doesn’t have to mention the word racism for us to know that’s whats in her thoughts. Read her previous columns. Racism is the theme in all but a few. Hillary Clinton cried “vast right-wing conspiracy” until the blue dress showed turned up and blew that away. (No pun intended.)
Roy
August 19th, 2009
12:08 pm
Delete either showed or turned.
Rita
August 19th, 2009
12:10 pm
Does anyone really think that this “debate” is over anything other than a game that’s already rigged? Forget “socialism” or the other hot-button words that get the old fat white folks in a tizzy. Insurance companies have spent $200MM (one would assume from our premiums we faithfully pay each month) to ensure that there will be NO competition, EVER, and they can keep raising their premiums forever.
In the bigger picture, if any kind of meaningful health care reform goes through, the Republicans know they’ll be in the wilderness for a couple decades, just like they were after Social Security passed in the 30s and Medicare passed in the 60s. Americans may talk about “freedom”, but they love their “free” s*** from the government. If the deficit was their main concern, how come they aren’t outraged over the $$trillion that’s already been spent in Iraq? The politicians want to protect their jobs long enough to get to the real brass ring, making big bucks as lobbyists. If they were not convinced that health care reform would become as popular as SS and Medicare and their opposition to it would put them out of a job, they would simply allow the legislation to go forward, watch the Democrats wither, and then change the law when they took power again.
Cosby Smith
August 19th, 2009
12:17 pm
Tucker is up to her prejudices again. She badsshed the bush administration everytime she could and now blast those who stand up for their rights. Al Frankin and George Soros bought the Senate seat, no word. ACLU, AARP, Acorn bus their people into town halss and no word from Tucker. If you believein your freedom and personal rights, do not look for Tucker to be on your side. She wants to be on the government plantation – craddle to grave.
Pat Phelps
August 19th, 2009
12:24 pm
Cynthia,
you don’t have to mention race to know you are thinking about it. Your comments to Chris Matthews the other day are proof positive you are thinking that way.
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator :-) You Whine :-(
August 19th, 2009
12:29 pm
Would someone explain the difference between George Soros funding the radical left (moveon.org) and Richard Mellon Scaife funding the conservative movement?
Heck, what would you call the federal government funding ACORN and other assorted health care supporters?
This lib doesn’t seem to know she’s in a glass house.
Robyn
August 19th, 2009
12:31 pm
It’s alright to take a portion of my money and help the truly needy. It’s not alright to give it to worthless bums and welfare brood mares.
Chris Salzmann
August 19th, 2009
12:34 pm
proud old guy August 19th, 2009 12:06 pm SAID:
a) The whole concept of the CER which will determine which treatments are “effective” and tie doctors to those treatments. If the government decides, like they have in the UK, that cardiac catheterizations and cardiac stents do not offer adequate improvement of quality of life, they can refuse to pay for them after a certain age. In the UK that age is 59. That means that people with cardiac disease cannot get effective treatment. I strongly oppose this.
CHRIS SAYS: POG (Proud Old Guy), that’s a good point isn’t this is supposition on your part. We don’t know which treatments will be called ineffective. Also, doesn’t Medicare already cover this? Isn’t this reform bill currently meant for those folks who a) Are not on Medicare (b) Have no insurance (c) Are on single payer plans and (d) On single payer plans that exclude pre-existing conditions.
proud old guy August 19th, 2009 12:06 pm SAID:
b) We have a current model for the end of life consulting that is operating in the VA today. The guidebook for this consulting was written primarily by an ardent assisted suicide advocate.
CHRIS SAYS: End of life consulting is primarily meant to ensure everyone has a living will. In fact, many Republicans supported this measure, in one form or another, in the past. This myth of a “death panel” has been debunked various times, again and again. Also, I don’t believe that the VA in any way supports assisted suicide at all, inspite of who wrote it.
proud old guy August 19th, 2009 12:06 pm SAID:
c) In certain kinds of situations, there is a marked difference in the effectiveness of different forms of certain drugs. My spouse responds well to a name brand drug for migraines. The generic equivalent provides no relief. If the plan allows a government board to decide which medicine can be dispensed, I have a legitimate disagreement with that.
CHRIS SAYS: Again, since you’re an “OLD” guy (I’m wildly guessing here), isn’t that already covered under your Medicare Prescription Plan? By the way, many private insurance plans don’t cover many brand drugs. HOWEVER, there is no government board mentioned in this bill that can decide what medicine can be dispensed. I’ve read through the bill and haven’t come across that.
proud old guy August 19th, 2009 12:06 pm SAID:
Finally, Chris, there are a lot of people who have had interactions with government operations who are literally scared of what would happen to health care in this country. Ever tried to deal with the post office? In addition, there are millions of believe who profoundly believe that market solutions ultimately end up being vastly superior at lower cost.
CHRIS SAYS: I think that the Post Office is a pretty bad example. Most people I know, are pretty happy with Medicare, which is a health INSURANCE program. The VA is a bad example since this program involves the ENTIRE HEALTH CARE CYCLE including HOSPITAL and SPECIALIST CARE. The Health Care Reform bill is aimed at health INSURANCE plans and how to pay for them.
proud old guy August 19th, 2009 12:06 pm SAID:
The real problem with Obamacare is not the words that people use. It is that the dems are unwilling to make their case in the marketplace of ideas and convince people as to why it would be better. The life experiences of many create legitimate reservations that they are expressing to representatives who react with arrogance. This breeds the levels of distrust and resistance that we are seeing from plain old thoughtful everyday citizens.
CHRIS SAYS: I agree with some of what you wrote here. I’ve heard some politicians complain that the Bill is over 1,000 pages long. Aren’t they paid to read through this? Why else are they there? HOWEVER, the entire reform bill is available online. There are also NON-PARTISAN websites, not tied to any corporate or political interests that are available to debunk many myths that are thrown around about this reform bill. The two websites that I know of are: http://www.factcheck.org and http://www.politifact.com
FINALLY, please remember that this bill is primarily an INSURANCE bill.
Roy
August 19th, 2009
12:37 pm
Cynthia is in a tizzy because she found out the protester with the AR-15 was a black guy and the guy that did the Obama-Joker poster was a Palestinian from Chicago.
Mac
August 19th, 2009
12:38 pm
What you write is true and insightful. However, I sure there are, but am ignorant of the names of the interests on the other side of this political battle and would like to know what those are as well. Thanks for your hard work, Cynthia.
Chris Salzmann
August 19th, 2009
12:39 pm
Robyn August 19th, 2009 12:31 pm : It’s alright to take a portion of my money and help the truly needy. It’s not alright to give it to worthless bums and welfare brood mares.
CHRIS SAYS: When talking about “worthless bums”, just remember that many of the homeless are veterans. Also, some compassion should be called for and remember the old saying “But for the grace of God, there go I”.
Pat Phelps
August 19th, 2009
12:43 pm
Chris, Yes the government runs Medicare and has bankrupted the program. Social Security is all but bankrupt and probably will not be around when I retire. The United States Senate could not even run their own cafeteria without screwing it up and bankrupting it. So explain to me how the government will pay for and administer a trillion dollar program without bankrupting it?
The father of moderm day socialism said, “from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs.” How is this program different than that quote from Karl Marx?
Jim
August 19th, 2009
12:43 pm
Go “vast rightwing conspiracy” – You liberals are nuts!! Republicans are forced to show up and make our representatives listen! It takes a lot of hard work to balance out the liberal mainstream media, all of which should get pay checks cut by the DNC. Instead of thoughtful debate, democrats are always so quick to demonize and blame some “right wing conspiracy.” So as a PROUD member of the “vast right wing conspiracy”, i guess i’m a racist too – right??? It’s always one or the other – and sometimes both with you people!
BTW – Love those poll numbers falling faster and faster everyday! 
Thanks for waking up the sleeping public and giving them a reason to give us back the Whitehouse and Congress!!!
DannyX
August 19th, 2009
12:45 pm
Cynthia, actually the nut case Republicans started back with their non-sense last summer during the presidential campaign. “Hussein” Obama, flag pin, birth certificate, ACORN, Michelle and all of the other non-sense was all Republicans could talk about. Those were their issues.
Now all of the sudden a real issue comes up and they act like a bunch of spoiled brats that had a toy taken away. They still aren’t even focused on the issue. Now we have the Nazi claims, the socialist name game, stuffing guns all over your body to make a point, and still more birther nonsense.
This kind of idiocy on the part of Republicans is very self-destructive. Instead of the Democrats Republicans should be trying to get rid of every last Republican leader for allowing their party to be hijacked.
Of course the Democrats now control the federal government with a super-majority in the House, filibuster-proof Senate, and the Presidency.
the evil rich
August 19th, 2009
12:46 pm
Yeah, but when leftist do it you NEVER report it, do you? Your credibilty is ZERO on this.
billy bob
August 19th, 2009
12:48 pm
People still read this paper?
sue bob
August 19th, 2009
12:51 pm
2009 – First black U. S. President enters the White House
2013 – First Communist U. S. President leaves the White House
(Hopefully sooner)
Pat Phelps
August 19th, 2009
12:55 pm
Danny X…if I remember correctly the first lady of the Democratic party, the lovely Nancy Polesi, started the Nazi name calling. Were you just as outraged at that? Did you call and complain to her? Of course not, because there is a double standard on the left.
Scott
August 19th, 2009
12:56 pm
This health care reform is just another option for people to sit around their butts and live off the the government. The people who actually work will have to pay for it but it wont be enough to cover the costs. And although nobody wants to say it, liberals want Doctor’s to make between 50-100k like they do in France….one problem….who would want to be a doctor then? And although we don’t know the entire bill, we do know there will be a panel to determine which health care procedures are appropriate (i.e cost-beneficial). Weird.
godless heathen
August 19th, 2009
12:56 pm
CT wrote: “But ideologues like DeMint and Newt Gingrich have made it pretty clear that they’re not interested in finding the best approach on public policy or in helping Americans cope with skyrocketing health care costs. They just want to win political battles.”
And whenever possible bring up the bogeyman Newt Gingrich to get the libs in a tizzy. If Ms. Tucker would take the time to actually listen to Mr. Gingrich, she would know that he has substantial proposals that would address the issue that aren’t just about winning political battles.
Peter
August 19th, 2009
12:57 pm
What are you Bobbing on ……..sue bob ? Obviously not a book !
2009 Dumbest President “ever” leaves office…..Probably made you Cry !
Pat Phelps
August 19th, 2009
1:02 pm
Chris…I would not even begin to talk about racism, so you will need to be enlightened somewhere else. I will say that on the Chris Matthews show Cynthia Tucker presumed to judge the people attending these Town Hall meetings by saying that 45% to 65% are there simply because Barak Obama is black. Are you as outraged at those comments as you are at mine? Probably not, because I would say you agree.
JackLeg
August 19th, 2009
1:04 pm
I wonder why a racist like Cynthia Tucker can make a living out of being a racist, but if you are white you can’t….. I wonder when we will all live by the same rules?
Azazel
August 19th, 2009
1:08 pm
James Dickey was right about us: Progressives took a wrong turn on the way to “Aintry”, and are ill prepared for the vicious reaction from a world to be left behind.
norman ravitch
August 19th, 2009
1:09 pm
It is true that Newt Gingrich has many interesting ideas. He is a man of ideas. But he is totally devoid of moral and ethical considerations.
ncgreybr
August 19th, 2009
1:13 pm
If the guy at the meeting with the AR-15 was a black guy, he was the whitest black guy I ever saw.
As for the guy that was interviewed with the handgun, he was flakier than my mother’s pie crust!
Randyinathens
August 19th, 2009
1:14 pm
All of liberals on here take 2 minutes to look the constitution up online, I’m sure it’s there. Then copy and paste onto this blog exactly where it says it is the responsibility of government to take tax dollars from my paycheck and pay for healthcare for ANYBODY. Legal residents, illegal aliens, temporary residents, high income earners, low income earners, A N Y B O D Y !!!!!! It is not there.
Randyinathens
August 19th, 2009
1:15 pm
Here in esence is what we have the right to do and what we OUGHT to do
“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government”,
Azazel
August 19th, 2009
1:18 pm
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Promote domestic tranquility and promote general welfare seem justification enough for health and health care for all.
jms
August 19th, 2009
1:20 pm
Cynthia,
I think your right-wing conspiracy is really just ordinary folks like me. I’m not political. Never been to a rally and don’t listen to talk radio. what I do see is a trillion dollar government plan on top of the hundreds of billions already spent in the last year. This crushing legacy of debt isn’t something I want to leave for my children.
what?
August 19th, 2009
1:20 pm
Congratulations, Cynthia. You didn’t bring up race in this column. Unfortunately, you brought up the other issue that fills your day – rightwing conspiracies.
I can’t fathom how liberals don’t see that this old bromide falls into the same category as the nonsense they mock conservatives for.
I guess it is true that partisans really can’t see what’s in the mirror in front of them.
Jimbo
August 19th, 2009
1:22 pm
Randy:
“Amendment 16 – Status of Income Tax Clarified. Ratified 2/3/1913.
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”
for part 1 of your question, for part 2, I imagine they think they’re promoting the general welfare. It’s in the preamble though and doesn’t seem to be supported by much of anything. They’re (both Republican and Democrat) supposed to also secure the blessings of liberty and there are a number of other rules for them follow, but it doesn’t seem to bother them too much to ignore those.
Azazel
August 19th, 2009
1:24 pm
US constitution :Section 8 – Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Jimbo
August 19th, 2009
1:24 pm
The best thing Cynthia Tucker ever wrote was her essay on how gun violence was the real epidemic in this country and not the flu. I wrote a long response to that one and then realized that if she isn’t willing to do even the most superficial research (guns kill under 30,000 Americans a year, over half of which are suicides, while the flu kills over 60,000) then it really wasn’t worth the effort. While I refuse to commit to a specific party line, it’s the fighting fools on both sides that make me root for the flu.
Randyinathens
August 19th, 2009
1:25 pm
This is the part every single Republican and Libertarian should seize upon.
“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government”,
ncgreybr
August 19th, 2009
1:27 pm
I’m curious why Gingrich was on the talk show the other Sunday talking down the end of life consultations when he did a op-ed piece a month ago PRAISING the end of life consultations that a Lutheran group in Wisconson does that would save 33 BILLION in Medicare cost (Gringrich’s words).
Joey
August 19th, 2009
1:28 pm
ncgreybr:
Thank you for bringing me back to the subject.
I would have sworn that I was responding to your post about race.
Now having read several of you other post, I understand.
Jimbo
August 19th, 2009
1:29 pm
@Azazel,
I would argue that the preamble doesn’t present the actual duties of government, but what their duties are ideally meant to accomplish. The government should create an environment that ensures domestic tranquility and promotes the general welfare. There’s nothing to support the conclusion that the government should involve itself in the personal lives of Americans as thoroughly as giving them healthcare. The idea of a welfare state didn’t appear until the 19th or 20th centuries, well after the ratification of the constitution.
Jimbo
August 19th, 2009
1:31 pm
Uh, Randy, that’s the Declaration of Independence.
RW
August 19th, 2009
1:36 pm
Once again, this racist, left-wing, lunatic opens her idiotic mouth, and garbage, without the basis of any FACTS comes out.
You wanna sell more papers? Get rid of this crazy moonbat!
David
August 19th, 2009
1:38 pm
Cynthia, Don’t you remember how stupid Hilary looked after we found out there wasn’t a “right wing conspiracy” but that Bill had been lying about where he had been hiding his privates.